Ellis G. Arnall interviewed by Harold Paulk (Hal) Henderson, Sr. 19 July 1985.

Harold Paulk (Hal) Henderson, Sr. Oral History Collection
Series I: Ellis Arnall
OH ARN 09
Ellis G. Arnall Interviewed by Harold Paulk (Hal) Henderson, Sr.
Date: July 19, 1985
CD: OH ARN 09, Track 1; 0:10:35 minutes
Cassette: OH ARN 09, 0:10:35 minutes, Side One

[CD: Track 1]
[Cassette: Side 1]

[HENDERSON tests tape recorder in preparation for interview]

ARNALL: The Gallogly case was[Richard Gray (Dick)] Gallogly was a son or grandson tied in to the [James Richard] Gray [Sr.] family that owned the [Atlanta] Journal, and since the Journal was always harping on [Eurith Dickinson] Ed [Rivers], he finally pardoned Gallogly but he held the Journal up to ridicule, and they never got over that. As a matter fact, I was Galloglys lawyer. Did you know that?

HENDERSON: No sir, I didnt know that.

ARNALL: Well, this is right interesting [ARNALL and HENDERSON laugh]. Gallogly and George [Rutherford] Harsh were apprehended for going around town and shooting people. They were students at Oglethorpe [University, Atlanta, Georgia]. And they were apprehended. They found a bloody shirt in the creek, and they traced it back. And in the trial--I was not their trial attorney--but they were convicted. Because one was convicted and given the chair and the other one then agreed to plead guilty if they give them both life--which they did. Later, I became his attorney in an application before the pardon board for parole or pardon for Dick Gallogly. So, I was his attorney. They turned it down, but this is public record. Two days or three days after I became attorney general, he escaped and went to Texas. They had all kinds of pictures of him wrapped in the Texas flag and his wifes there and oh, theyre seeking Texas justice, and they were tied up with press and everybody, you know. The governor of Texas then was [Wilbert] Pappy Lee ODaniel, Pass the Biscuits Pappy. So, normally the attorney general would send an assistant out to extradite a criminal, but here was my client, and if the assistant hadnt gotten him, theyd say Uh-huh. So, I went out. He was in jail in Dallas, and we had the hearings every day in Austin. [They] went on for about a week. All the press in the country was there. They had stories both ways. Either I got him or I didnt get him, cause it was so close. One day I was arguing, and I said--citing some law--and the Governor ODaniel said General, have you ever heard of the Law West of the Pecos [Judge Roy Bean]? I said Yes, sir. He said Well, Im the Law West of the Pecos. Dont quote any of that stuff to me. Im going to do what I want to do. [HENDERSON chuckles] And everybody thought I was do his sob story, you know, wife is crying and oh God. After a week I got him back. I did it, though, by revealing some confidences that he had told me as his lawyer. So then his attorney sought to disbar me on the theory I had violated all the legal ethics, which I admitted. But I say heres the difference. I was one mans attorney during it, but Im three and half million peoples attorney now. So, this transcends this and thats very well. The Texas court of appeals and everybody there justified doing it, and I finally got him back. So, the Gallogly case was a big deal, and Ed Rivers offended--after I got him back, now, they pardoned him--but he rubbed the Journals nose in it--in doing it--and they never forgave him.
So, back in 46 [1946] when we are talking about him--with the papers against him, he never had a prayer and all the pardon record was talking. So, he knew he didnt, and if Id supported him one thousand percent, he wouldnt have gotten across the creek; he was a dead pigeon. I didnt promise him to. He assumed that I was his friend and that I had committed myself to himno. As a matter of fact, the way we got [James Vinson] Jimmy Carmichael [was that] the papers and I got together and breathed that he was a man to [elect?]. He was highly regarded. Both papers agreed and worked it out well. But Ed was in disrepute at that time. The papers were writing constantly about him. If you remember--I dont know if you know this--he was so unpopular at that time that somebody tried to kill him. Do you remember that?

HENDERSON: No, sir, I dont remember.

ARNALL: Yeah. They came to his door and knocked on it. A man with a pistol shot him [Telephone rings] and he [unintelligible] [ARNALL answers telephone. Tape stops and starts] But, hes determined to run, really, not against me because my support of Carmichael was open, but not great. But he did it to spite the papers, because he didnt want them to get their candidate.

HENDERSON: Did you ever try to talk him out of running?

ARNALL: Yes.

HENDERSON: But to no avail?

ARNALL: No avail.

HENDERSON: Well, Governor, I think I have one more question for you.

ARNALL: Yes.

HENDERSON: Looking back on Georgia history and Georgia politics, what is your place in Georgia history?

ARNALL: Well, this I cant evaluate, except this--and if youll forgive me Ill say it. I probably did more to make Georgia and the South the promised land than any governor weve ever had. I get back to fact that we became industrial. I broke the barriers that had bound us--the chains; I took them off, since the Civil War. And I would say that the great economic advancement of our state, the South, and the West [unintelligible comment] can be attributed to me doing the impossible. When everybody said it cant be done, we did it. So, I would think that historically the great impetus that has come to Georgia and the South economically, industrially, from any standpoint, the great advances that weve made in every respect, can be traced to that. Because I believe--you indicated this a moment ago--that economic opportunity solves racial problems, solves the problems of ignorance, [and] the problems of poverty. If we have the economic opportunities, we can do what we will and we can make of ourselves what we will. Now, theres a fellow named Zell [Bryan] Miller who wrote a book in which he picked out the fifty outspoken Georgians who, in his view, contributed most to the development of Georgia from two hundred and fifty years of history. And nicely, he included me in that group. But I think, if one is fair, they have to confess that the things that we contributed--my administration in Georgia--are the most lasting of the contributions made by any government. I say any government, because up until then we were the stepchild and all the criticism they gave us of racial bigotry, child labor, sweat shops--they were forced on us. Our people had to make a living, and they just did the best they could. As I told you earlier there was half a loaf for both races in getting [unintelligible]. And I think that were on the verge of even greater prosperity and greater development. As a matter of fact, as we all know the Sunbelt, now, is the section. People are moving in here all the time. In my insurance operation--were a Coastal States of Georgia company [Coastal States Life Insurance Company]--Sun Life of Baltimore, Universal Guarantee of Columbus, Ohio, and on and on. They all moved down here. We consolidate them into Sun Life Group [of America], but they come in every day. We as attorneys represent Dutch interest. We represent interests in Belgium. Theyre coming here. We have all their stuff. Its just big, big, big. And theres not a date [that] passes we dont get a new industrial client. Not a few, but not many. This is the promised land. And how the hell did it come about? Just happened? No, I put my finger on it. When we got to where we could compete on the basis of equality with our good climate, our good work force, the advantages we have You see, the advantages of the South are well known. Most of the mass media stems out of the North, and theyve always been jealous of us because we still have some kind of gracious living down here.

HENDERSON: Uh-huh.

ARNALL: But, now, in time, were going to be the bosses. And its due to the fact, as I say, that one little country lawyer decided theres got to be something done to make the--to readmit the South into the Union so that we can be part of the Union and not the stepchild. And that was then. So I say whatever you talk about restructuring straight government, whatever you talk about in voting, prison, education, and all that--the heart of the thing is the economy. Georgia versus Pennsylvania Railroad [Georgia v. Pennsylvania Company et al.] made that possible.

HENDERSON: You said you had an article that you were going to let me have before we got away.

ARNALL: Yes.

[End of Interview]

Name Index

B
Bean, Roy, Judge, 2
C
Carmichael, James Vinson (Jimmy), 3
G
Gallogly, Richard Gray (Dick), 1, 2
Gray, James Richard, Sr., 1
H
Harsh, George Rutherford, 1
M
Miller, Zell Bryan, 4
O
ODaniel, Wilbert Lee (Pappy), 2
R
Rivers, Eurith Dickinson (Ed), 1, 2, 3



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