Oral history interview of Katherine Clarice Glass Reibman

Collection:: Veterans History Project: Oral History Interviews
Title:: Oral history interview of Katherine Clarice Glass Reibman
Creator:: Pace, Hayden
Reibman, Katherine Clarice Glass, 1920-
Date of Original:: 2003-08-06
Subject:: World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Washington and Lee University
United States. Army. Women's Army Auxiliary Corps. Detachment, 1208
General A. W. Greely (Transport ship)
Tanglewood Music Center
United States. Servicemen's Readjustment Act of 1944
Boxing
People:: Reibman, Abe, 1917-1993
Glass, Steven, 1918-2003
Horne, Lena, 1917-2010
Welsh, Captain
Graziano, Rocky, 1922-1990
Dempsey, Jack, 1895-1983
Dunham, Katherine, 1909-2006
Ross, Barney, 1909-1967
McCleary, Ruth
Lynch, R.
Marvey, Gene
Ellsworth, Health
Aldrich, Duncan
Location:: United States, Georgia, 32.75042, -83.50018
United States, Georgia, Atlanta Metropolitan Area, 33.8498, 84.4383
United States, Georgia, Catoosa County, Fort Oglethorpe, 34.94896, -85.2569
United States, New York, Catskill Mountains, 42.0529564, -74.2915013
United States, New York, New York County, New York, 40.7142691, -74.0059729
United States, New York, Suffolk County, Camp Upton (historical), 40.86889, -72.87917
Medium:: video recordings (physical artifacts)
mini-dv
Type:: Moving Image
Format:: video/quicktime
Description:: In this interview, Katherine Reibman recalls her experiences in the Women's Army Corps during World War II. She was a professional dancer and vaudevillian before the war. She describes the long train trip from New York to Georgia after she became a WAC and remembers that they were all there with the goal to serve their country and that wearing a military uniform was glamorous. Her basic training involved bivouacking and her duties included working in a warehouse distributing uniforms, working at a gas station, and working on the camp newspaper. She describes her relief when German prisoners of war arrived to peel potatoes so she didn't have to. At the end of the war, her duties included interviewing returning soldiers to be discharged. She remembers that the soldiers were “at a loss.” She describes the contrast between troops during embarkation, when they were a cohesive unit, and those being discharged, then they were in disarray. She describes her husband's career in the Navy, displaying his certificate of "plank ownership" and of crossing the equator.
Katherine Glass Reibman was a WAC during World War II.
KATHERINE C. REIBMAN WWII Oral Histories August 6, 2003 Atlanta History Center [Note: Mrs. Reibman refers to her husband as “Al Reed”, and then immediately refers to him as Abe Reibman. It's possible he used Al Reed at one time and later returned to the original Jewish name. She also refers to herself as Katherine Reibman in a couple of instances when it should have been Glass, her maiden name.] [Tape 1, Side A] Interviewer: Okay, this is going to be the interview of Katherine Reibman. It's being conducted by Hayden Pace. And today is August sixth. It's about one thirty in the afternoon. We are in Atlanta, Georgia. Katherine, what is your full name? Reibman: Katherine C. Reibman. Middle name Clorice [phonetic]. Interviewer: And what is your maiden name? Reibman: Katherine Clorice Glass. G-L-A-S-S. Interviewer: And Katherine, where were you born? Reibman: New York City. About a Hundred and Tenth Street in Manhattan. Interviewer: And when were you born? Reibman: November twenty-second, nineteen twenty. Interviewer: And you currently…you live here in Atlanta? Reibman: Yes, very happily so. Interviewer: And are you married? Reibman: I was…I was married for forty-four years. Interviewer: And do you have any children? Reibman: Yes, I do. Two. Francine Reibman Meyers, who is married and grandson [sic] and she's a biomedical engineer, director of biomedical engineering in New Jersey. And she does other, very wonderful work in neurology. And Spencer…oh and her son is in college with a full scholarship. Very proud of him. And my son Spencer Reibman teaches at Georgia State for numerous years. And he teaches economics on grad level. And he's an entrepreneur of a business. And he's very, very much involved in some very wonderful things, mostly sports. He was a very excellent athlete. He was a gymnast and he had a scholarship for gymnastics at Berkeley. And I've seen him work out. He's good. They were all good. They were all great. Interviewer: Well-educated kids. How about yourself? What was the highest level of education? Reibman: High school. I started college and I went into show business instead. Interviewer: And when did you go into show business? Do you remember? Reibman: I graduated high school. I started college. Went for a couple of classes and I decided I wanted to be in theater, because I've always danced my whole life. And I became a professional. I teach all forms of dance. I opened my studio after I got out of the Army. I taught modern, ballet, gymnastics, folk and Girl Scouts. I taught Girl Scouts folk dancing. Anything that was related to dance. Gymnastics, baton. I did everything that had to do with theater and I have been in numerous shows in Vaudeville and it was a very exciting life. It was just full of music and dance. Interviewer: Were you doing this before the Army? Reibman: I just don't recall at the moment. Yes, I did. I was in show business before I went in the Army and I remember…all of us for the show going south. I picked up typhoid fever and I had to leave the show and then I recuperated and then I went into the Army. It was a lot of fun traveling in road shows, meeting all the various actors and actresses and being onstage. Very exciting life. Interviewer: So what led you to enlist in the Army? Reibman: My brother, Steve, and my…I had met [inaudible] before…Abe Reibman. He was Navy. And I hadn't seen him in years. And my brother, Steve, went into the Army and I adored him. And Steve was a very handsome, six-foot-one guy, six foot, and he went to Australia and he was stationed in Brisbane. And I got all his letters. And then I got excited about the whole thing. Then he went to New Guinea. And then I went down to Forty-second Street and I enlisted. And my mother said…my father, you should only have children like you because I was always on the run. And I was very fortunate because I had a very healthy attitude to gung-ho, go for what you're doing, be part of it, do something. And of course, my life has been very exciting, always. Very affirmative. I'm just trying to think. My most exciting experience was getting on a train with numerous women from all over the United States. It was like a cattle car of a hundred…so many hundreds of women all talking at once, excited. We were going to Fort Oglethorpe, Georgia. And we were a slovenly looking mess because we didn't stand, but in a few days after basic training they all were tall and straight and marched beautifully. And we learned the skill of congeniality, working together for the same purpose which we were all there to serve our country. I'm very excited when I get chills when I think about it [sic]. And of course, learning how to march, doing KP and getting your hair off your collar, cause I always had nice, long, curly hair and all that. And the glamour was gone, but the glamour was the uniform. The true glamour was the uniform. And you know, when you marched up in Fort Oglethorpe and you saw these hundreds and hundreds of women who were just doing all the same thing with such a proud stance and such a…and saluting the flag and yet you get the chill of hearing them sing “God Bless America” and things like that. It was a very patriotic era. We loved our country and were determined and dedicated. They sent me to Camp Upton and while I was there, they had to find out where to put me. I wanted to know where they were going to put me also. So, to find out what my qualifications were after taking tests, for a while they put me into the warehouse to help distribute uniforms. Tremendous warehouse at Camp Upton, Long Island. And that's where all the G.I.s would go before they went to overseas [sic], point of embarkation. Then they put me in charge of a gasoline station. I had a lot of fun, because I got to meet everybody, the colonel, the general and I would gas up the car and I was having a good time with my little cubby hole. Then one day they said to me, “Katherine, we want you to work on the newspaper”. And I became the assistant editor. So they gave me a bicycle and I [inaudible] went around camp gathering up the news and I learned to put the paper to bed, to get my interviews and to do a lot of things and I met everybody in camp, cause everybody wanted to tell me something and they'd all get the camp….ah, one, two, three, four Camp Upton, N-O-O-C. That was the name of the paper. But I was lucky. I was in the middle of everything and the fact that I had been in show business obviously enhanced my life because I did all the shows and I met all the fabulous…[inaudible] Walker and all the big columnists used to come to camp, to the little Uppy [phonetic] House at Camp Upton. And Lena Horne was there and I got to meet everybody. How could I go wrong? [laughs] And I got into the [inaudible]. And also we had…we did fabulous shows and I've done the Uppy House shows and I was just part of everything. They had terrific dances of that generation. There were good Peabody dancers and it was a very affirmative chemistry. It was a great experience. The most important thing is to participate. The more you participate, the more you grow and the more you enhance your life. And I certainly was in a growing binge. Everything was to grow and be part of life. And I still have that attitude. I call it an altitude. I'm facetious. And uh…what else? Okay. Interviewer: Let's see. You said that were at Fort Oglethorpe and then you went to… Reibman: Camp Upton. Interviewer: Camp Upton. About how long were you at Fort Oglethorpe? Reibman: Just I think basic training. I think was two weeks. It was a very, very speedy, most articulate way of indoctrinating people from private life. They had no…there was no point. You just did it. That was it. You did KP. You had your hair cut. You had to be up. You had to take classes and they gave you classes to go to and they educated you just to what the Army was about, what you were supposed to do and what other people were doing. It was a very thinking process. Where people pull themselves together in a short space of time and they went forward and upward, in my estimation. And I met people of all walks of life. It was just wonderful. I think the only thing I regretted is that I couldn't cut my hair…I had to get it off my collar. That was a chore for me. Interviewer: Did you find basic training to be difficult? Reibman: No, I loved it. I love sports. I mean, I love them very much. The harder it is, the more I enjoy it. I like [inaudible]…I like to push myself ahead. I don't want to go backwards. I want to go forwards and upwards. Interviewer: How about the bulk of the women that you were training with? Did they struggle with it or were they [inaudible]. Reibman: [inaudible] They…I have never met…I think there might have been one person who said she'd like to leave cause she thought she was glamorous, she thought. She didn't know about glamour. I knew about it. And she…I don't know what happened to her. But nine tenths…I would say even more than nine tenths of the women were very, very, very, very enthusiastic. We worked together. We played together. We did together everything. And we learned to work as a unit and for a purpose. There was no…you were just a private to do a job and you're here to a job and that's it. No complaining. I'm not gonna use the other word. And that's…you had to clean the barracks, you cleaned it. You had to make your bed, so you…they just stood up at attention. But one day it was very funny at Camp Upton. I'll never forget it. Captain Walsh was a very tall lady from Minnesota. Quite tall. And she says, “How many people like fresh air?” And [inaudible] says, “Oh, I do.” She says, “Okay, go out and pick up the butts.” [laughs] I'll never forget that. I never…[laughing] I never did it again. But you know, I'm enthusiastic so, I wasn't so smart. But generally speaking, Captain…the one who was the cadre in charge of us. She was from Georgia. A very wonderful sergeant. She had a wonderful congeniality. We got along. We lived together. We did…oh, I did KP for…for numerous…until I got my first T…my first PFC, I used to do KP once a week for sure. Then, finally, when I got something, I only got it later. And then when the prisoners of war came in from Germany, they peeled the potatoes, they washed these gigantic pans that I couldn't…they were taller than me. Cause everything I cooked was an enormous size. But that was just part of it. And once, I missed the uh…I was in New York City and I remember missing the train, the last train to Camp Upton. I was devastated. I called up to my captain and I told her that I couldn't help it, I missed the train in. There was no other train. The next morning when I got in there, I had to hitch in cause the trains didn't go and she did me a favor. She gave me KP for one week. [laughs] I'll never forget. It never happened again. But you know, what I'm saying, the thing is this here, everybody accepted it. Even if they grumbled and grouched. But basically, there was…the purpose behind the whole thing was to accept your job and do it well to the best of your ability. And there was never a complaint about anybody. What I did resent was when the civilians came in and I did KP and they sat down and they didn't have to wash the dishes. That I had against the civilians. Because they lived on campus. It was a…you know, it's the only thing I could ever complain about. I said, “Why should I wash their pots and pans?” And they get paid. And look at me. But everybody did their job. You didn't have time to gripe. You just had to really move on with it. And uh…everything… Interviewer: When you say there were civilians on… Reibman: Yeah. Well, they did… Interviewer: …campus [inaudible]. Reibman: …some of the clerical. At Camp Upton they had clerical people who did certain jobs. Government workers. But mostly…okay, before I got discharged also, they put me into the…the war was over and they put me into an office and of course I could type. And we worked on the discharges of the G.I.s. And when I used to work at them, I got an insight into what they went through because they had to tell you everything. And it was their discharge. So, there again I was learning. Everything was a process of learning and being part of the whole thing. I wasn't in the corner just doing a job with blinders on and my ears covered. It was a…it was a time of life of growing and that's what life is about, growing. It was a… Interviewer: You mentioned that at some point they actually brought in POWs from Germany to do some of the cleaning tasks. Reibman: That was the happiest day in my life. [laughs] Interviewer: Is this at Fort Oglethorpe or Camp Upton? Reibman: Yes. It was Camp Upton. And it was humorous situation because KP is not a pleasant job, you know. Anything else? Interviewer: Sure. Sure. Reibman: Oh, and when I got out of the service, I met Al Reed again, Abe Reibman. And I was a very…a very moral individual and we got married in eleven weeks. He was…he had a lot of wonderful qualities. He liked…he loved sports and I loved it and he was a top-of-the-line fighter. Football champion. He had over a hundred fights, Al Reed. My brother-in-law was a fighter, too, and he had a very good family life. And I was a very…I was a generation that's not nowadays and we got married and we had two children and we lived in a veteran's development. Interviewer: You said you met him during the war? Reibman: I met him before at a dance and I just simply met him. And then by coincidence, I met him again at dance, cause I loved to dance and where do you meet people? I didn't go to a bar. Go into dances. Different generation. And he had such…he had a wonderful code of ethics and he loved what he was doing. He loved boxing and he was very, very well known for his generation and I knew Jack Dempsey. I knew all the big-time fighters, Rocky Graciano and all that over the years. And we liked the same things. We had the same feeling about play-by-the-rules. We raised our children that way in this veteran's development. I finally became editor of the school paper and I opened a dance studio. I became a den mother, a Girl Scout leader at the same time, edited the paper and everything was a challenge. It was a “big meal” life. It was a fabulous meal and… Interviewer: Was he involved in the military? Reibman: He was a Navy man for uh…you have his discharge here. Interviewer: Okay. Reibman: You have it down here. [paper rattling] And when my…okay. Will you…I can't see this. You'll have to… Interviewer: Okay. I think what I'll do is make some notes on this piece of paper after we stop the tape. Reibman: Right. Interviewer: But for purposes of the tape, let's keep going. I'm curious about the jobs that you held while you were at Fort Upton [sic]. You said the first one was in a warehouse. Reibman: Camp Upton. Interviewer: Camp Upton. I'm sorry. Reibman: That's all right. Interviewer: In a warehouse where you were uh…[inaudible] uniforms. Reibman: Well, just…they had to know…they had to place you somewhere. And it wasn't really a job. I might have been then for less than a week or something like it. See, numerous people come into camp and you have to have a place to put them. So, they had to find your qualifications, look at all the [inaudible] and can't just sit and wait till they put you somewhere. So, they put me in there, then they immediately put me in charge of the gasoline station, which was a [laughs]…I went, “Wow.” Interviewer: Was that a better fit or a worse fit than the uniform… Reibman: No, I…it was fun, but it wasn't going anywhere. There was no stimulant. I wasn't interested in doling out gas. I had other qualities that were to be utilized and they put me on the newspaper. Interviewer: Is that what you wanted? Reibman: I took anything. You see, I have a theory in life. If you're volunteering, you go where they put you and where they need you. But some people griped. I didn't gripe. I just simply accepted it because then I did the…[inaudible] and I did other things. And I had a bicycle and I was motivated. The person doesn't have motivation, they're stagnant. They just…am I right? Interviewer: Yes. Reibman: So, I was always highly motivated and that was the whole point. You know, I should put my hat on. Right? Interviewer: If you like, sure. Reibman: I think I'd like to because I want to show all the little doohickeys that…in New York we had the parades. It was great. We just did a lot of things, wonderful things and we volunteered at the hospitals in New York. And then when I came down here, I became very involved. And I think that life, analytically and philosophically speaking, is to be involved. If you're not involved you're just really a hunk of protoplasm with no matter. Interviewer: Now, when you were at Camp Upton and were working on the newspaper, what were you reporting generally? Reibman: Well, the most thing [sic] about human beings is they like to talk about themselves. So, I would ask them what they did in the past and what their perception is of nowadays and what their future plans, if and when they got. I remember one thing that happened. They wanted to put me in the hospital. They needed help there and I said, “Never.” [laughs] And they knew me already. So they kept me, as I said, when I went to another job, at the end of the service, towards the end when I went to work in an office there. I had to be actively involved. I had to give my joy of life and my vitality in the right area. Cause that's…that's where I'm geared, to go and be…get up and dance and be full of fun and do my job with a smile and… Interviewer: How long did you hold the newspaper job? Reibman: Oh, a long time. I don't recall, but for a very long time. It was a…I'd have to look back at the…my records. Interviewer: Would you report at just the… Reibman: No. Interviewer: …daily activities of the camp? Reibman: Everything that went on in the world. And we had a special office and it was really exciting, because they would have films to show to the G.I.s. They would come in there and I'd get to see all the films of all the things that were happening in the world. And then I would break it down and I would have a little article about the world and what was happening. Then I would get clippings and letters and things and news reports that I had to put in that paper and, you know, put it into sections, break it down into columns, into space. And I had to report about what was happening in the world, what was happening there. Actually I covered everything. Who was…I wrote articles about…I interviewed these people who worked in camp and to make them feel good, their name was in the paper. And they really loved that. And I wrote a couple of articles and stories that I had fictionized [sic] just for fun. These…it was a very good experience cause my…it was such activity for me that I…and I'm…I'm very outgoing and I have to be fed. I have to be fed excitement, so I can propagate and make more excitement. [laughs] How else to say it? Interviewer: Do you remember reporting any specific events that were unusually exciting? Reibman: Oh, there's one more thing I did do. They sent me to Washington Lee University for two weeks. And that was supposed to be a crash course, but like there were a few thousand G.I.s from all over the world and only seven women. I have to tell you, it was the most exciting, exhilarating experience because you had very involved courses on PR and the relations in the world and all about how the fellas fought overseas and how they carried their knives and their bodies to hide them. It was a very involved course with a lot things that were very important to know. And there was a two-weeks crash course and the [inaudible] were outrageous. In fact, I did one of the shows there. [inaudible] What was the name of the show? And I had a lot of fun because they were thousands of G.I.s there from all over the world who were taking this INE A&R course. INE, intellectual and education. A&R, athletics and recreation. It was compulsory. In the two weeks, we jammed it in which was fun. The more you push me, the more I put out. The less you push me, the less I'm gonna put out or burst. And every show they had, I was always in it. And one particular show we did this….oh. [inaudible] If forgot the name of the show. I'll think of it. I was supposed to stand up and say, “Oh, Frankie!” And everybody got to know Katherine Reibman. [laughs] The whole camp was there [inaudible]. “Hey Katherine, where's Frankie?” You know. Then I did other shows. So, everything you did was an experience and it wasn't a gripe. Interviewer: How did you get involved with this? Reibman: The show? Interviewer: Yeah. With Washington and Lee. How were you selected among…you said there were only women involved. Reibman: Seventy. Interviewer: Seventy. Reibman: Seventy. There were officers from…I have pictures. I forgot to bring it. I should have. It might be here. I don't know. Maybe I have it right here. Oh, there we are. My apologies. Here they are. There were all walks of life. You know what I'm saying? Interviewer: [inaudible] camera. Reibman: Right. Interviewer: Okay. Reibman: So I'm not fabricating. Interviewer: Perfect. Okay. Reibman: Okay? Now here's another one that we had, you know. And this is bivouac. I've got to tell you about bivouac. Interviewer: Okay. What is bivouac? Reibman: Bivouac. When they take us out on a parade. No, they take us out to put your tent up and we have our fatigues on. And you know, we all got together with a backpack and the fatigues and we went out and pitched a tent. Then they gave us a gun and they showed us how to use a gun. Had to take it apart to clean it and put it together. We never used it, but…there was one thing that…that was very outstanding in my mind at this age, at my stage of life. Everybody worked together as a unit. Whether they liked it or not, they still did the job. And I have a theory in life. You don't like it, you do…you don't like it, you do it and get it done and gripe later. And that was a very important factor. The only reason I took this picture was cause of the different hats. There was the summer hat and there's the winter and there's another one and there's the different hats that we wore. We had outfits, summer outfits and winter outfits. And KP, the dresses which I didn't love. Wasn't my favorite. Not the kind of dress I would want to wear everyday. And I just think that's about it. And also I got a certificate for doing projection in the Army. They taught me how to use a 35 millimeter and I got that. So you see, there was always something that was happening. They would put me in an area and I kept going up, up and up. Interviewer: When would you use a projection [sic]? Reibman: Well, when…if we had a movie at the Uppy House, we had to have this…[inaudible]. For this certificate, I had to learn how to thread the film, how to splice it and how to run it and close it. It's…you don't have to be a mental giant. All you have to do is utilize what you've got. That's called brains. [laughs] I'm sorry. Interviewer: How often would troops get to see a film? Reibman: Very fre…oh, they were training films. A lot of them were training films. And there again, I got to see what was going on. I was always seeing what was going on and that's what stimulated me with the newspaper, because it's a natural inquisitiveness that some people have. I didn't say me, necessarily. Some people are inquisitive and some others are closed valves. [laughs] I just made that up. Interviewer: Now, being exposed to all this, seeing the training video and having the troops come in and…would other women like yourself in the Women's Army Corps have a desire to go abroad, to be involved in [inaudible]? Reibman: I never thought about it. I never thought about it, but I'll tell you one thing. At the end of my service, when I wrote out their discharge papers, and many of them came back with many problems, malfunctioning situations with their bodies, and it was a very traumatic thing for them to suddenly go through a big war with a lot of intensity and then to come back and all of a sudden sit down and say, “Gee, where do I go from here?” And then, you know, we used to fill out forms and then I had to write…I wrote things that they told me. And that became a very--I get a chill when I think about it—sad situation because all of a sudden the reality of life is, “Where am I gonna go? What am I gonna do? I lost this much years,” or “A part of my health is gone”. Things like that and that's the reality of war. It's… Interviewer: These soldiers would come back and they would sit with you and you would… Reibman: Other people like myself. I wasn't the only one. There were others who were doing the same job. Interviewer: And they would give you sort of a…their identification, information and things like that [inaudible]. Reibman: Everything. For the discharge. We worked on their discharge. And it was…I think the adjustment after the was, to go back to private life, was a very serious adjustment for any war at any time in life to all human beings. Interviewer: Did they talk to you about that? Reibman: Oh, yeah. And you know, it depends upon how you interview them. If they wanted to open, okay. Otherwise it was a very…question, if they wanted to elaborate, that was their prerogative. But there were certain facts I had to know which was…it was right on their paper. Ask them this, this and this. And then if we had to fill in anything, like this. Interviewer: What do you remember of their general mood when they were facing this transition into civilian life. Reibman: At loss. I mean, that's my word. It just came out with spontaneity. At loss. Because they couldn't meditate. All I could think of that, “We're out. Now what?” And that's life. So, and of course, some of them needed help, physical and mental, to have the adjustment and then it became a camp, you know, for people who were being discharged and we had to place them. It was a readjustment for all. Where would they go, what kind of job would they do. They left their jobs, they left their family and everything was discombobulated for them. Interviewer: So you'd help place them into civilian life? Reibman: No, sir. All I did was fill out the form and take down what they said. And that was up to people who were more qualified than I will ever be. Cause I'm not pro…I just…I'm good to a certain degree, but I'm…I could learn, but I could never be that great. Cause people had to handle them. They had their hands full. Readjustment period. Then it became a nuclear plant, incidentally. Camp Upton. They still have the uniforms there and these are more uniforms that I donated and this is a…[inaudible]. There's my uniform, size eight. Ahem. [laughs] And there I had pictures on the wall and “I want you for U.S. Army.” This I do when I volunteer. I show them and it's…I'm not tremendous. I'm not [inaudible]. I'm just one cog in the machinery. I accept it. I don't have to be the wheel. You could be the wheel. Be my guest. [laughs] But what I did do was, as I said, I was right in back of another G.I. and he was such a dummy, he never made a move or a pass. [laughs] So. And that was my joke. It was humorous. Interviewer: So what kind of troops and soldiers came through Camp Upton? I mean, this was a camp which served as a transition [inaudible]. Reibman: It was a point of embarkation and it was a point of being discharged. And that was exactly it. When you say what kind? It's whatever that generation had to offer. Interviewer: See some of these troops coming in before they were to go off to war and then you saw them returning from war. Reibman: Yeah. And the entertainment in the camp was very important and of course, dancing was a very, very big thing. Apatchard [phonetic] was the town that we you used to go to. Patchagooey, I used to call it. And we had horses there and I used to go horseback riding. I never lacked for…I'm enterprising. I never lacked for the ability to do something about anything. Some people reach a plateau in life and they just cut off in life. But that's the individual, you know. And the same thing with these fellas. Some of them went to school under the G.I. Bill. And I went under the G.I. Bill. And I studied with Catherine Denham, who's a very fabulous black dancer. It was a great experience and I studied ballet, since I had been a dancer. But there's always room to learn and I took advantage of it. And I used a lot of her techniques and the ballet techniques and the dancing background that I had and tap dancing and baton and whatever it was, folk. It was…I embellished my life by taking advantage of life and learning. Interviewer: Now, you had said that you had enthusiastically enlisted in the Army, looking forward to all the opportunities that it was gonna open up to you. How… Reibman: I didn't…I didn't look at the opportunities. Interviewer: Okay. Reibman: For the simple reason, I had meditated about opportunities. I'm not an opportunist. I may be to progress myself in life. But I just simply went because that was the thing to do and serve your country. It has no…opportunity is an opportunist. When your looking for work or whatever I want to do toward…when I danced or I entertained or if I…I did different things in the era, the parades or became politically involved, which was another thing which was a lot of fun. That's an opportunist. But I was never an opportunist when it came to the service and when it came to country. There's no discussion. It's either you do or you don't. And people look for opportunists. That's a different perspective in life. I have a different…I'm very philosophical. I meditate on what is the purpose and why am I doing it and win, lose or draw I accept it, you know. But a lot of people can't diagnose that perception in life. They haven't got the ability to figure it out and that's why they're a little disturbed. Interviewer: You think this is an approach you held even then or it this something that you've developed over time? Reibman: I think it's a philosophy my parents gave me. They were well educated. I do something about something. That's the best you can do. It was nothing like that. They didn't [inaudible]. And you had to have an evaluation. I come from a generation of people who were intelligent. They were into the world of opera. My father was a tenor. Then they went into business and became an entrepreneur. And we learned by working together as a unit, a very, very close unit. My parents opened a store, we all worked. There was no discussion. Who's gonna argue? You want your bread on the table, you'll go for it. But it wasn't handed to us. We worked for it, which was a very important thing. My brother, sister and I. And there was a family…very strong relationship with all our relatives and our friends. We worked together at that generation together. I'm using that word, working together, that goes with my neighbors who were veterans. That goes for wherever it was. We worked together as a unit. And I don't know what else to say about that. And Al Reed, as I said, he was adored as a prizefighter. He was very, very popular. Extremely. And when he opened a bar and grill, all the big-time fighters and everybody used to come down and say, “Hi, Al Reed!” And then they…it was a very glamorous age. He was excited because he had made a mark in the world. And, “Oh, I…gee, these…I was a prizefighter,” and [inaudible] my brother-in-law, he was…and boxing had it's rules and I knew all the big-time people and I love show business. We had a lot of things going for us. Everything was a delicious apple. Even the hard knocks were apples, because if you don't do life, you don't have good knocks or hard knocks. You're just blasé, you're…I call it the doldrums. Interviewer: You kept in touch with your brother throughout his service? Reibman: Absolutely. Interviewer: How often would you speak with him or communicate? Reibman: Well, he was out in California. I went out there numerous times with my husband. And then when he…he just recently passed away about two months ago and he was in his eighties. And we brought him, when his wife expired. She went to sleep and we brought him, my son and my daughter, and my daughter took care of him in Jersey. I told you my son-in-law and my grandson. And now we had him here for numerous months and we saw that he was living comfortably and took care of him till his last days. Interviewer: How about when he was in Australia? Reibman: He never talked about his…of his…the only thing he said, that he ever said…he never talked about it. Neither did my husband. It's funny about that generation. They just listened. And he said it was not a pleasant…that New Guinea was…hell. He never talked about it. I don't know why and I never pushed the point because I always have the feeling, somebody wants to tell you something, they'll tell you. We got along. We were [inaudible]. We danced together. We went to nightclubs. It was great. It was a very put-together generation. Interviewer: So when you got…when you got letters from him, what would they be about? Reibman: “Mom, would you please bake some cookies and send them out?” [laughs] Or “What am I doing, where am I going?” And he just…he just really…just mostly asked us for things and he never…in his letters he was very careful not to say anything because they…as you'll see in one of the letters that he sent, and I have more, many more at home, that he really never talked about it because everything was read and edited. You know, it was censored. So, “I went here” and “I'm gonna do this”, but he couldn't tell us where he was going. It was always, “You can reach me at this APO,” that kind of stuff. Interviewer: You ever worry about him? Reibman: I don't think that that was a…our theory was that if we hear from him, he's here. And to worry didn't serve a purpose. Now, I remember meeting Barney Ross, who was a Marine, champion of the world, Florida champion. [inaudible] four champions. Being in the world of sports, were hard people, tough. I'm tough. And he was tough. We took life as it went along. We didn't bemoan our fate or anything like that. But uh…no, we were not complainers. We just simply did what we had to do and we went on to the next plateau in life. It was… Interviewer: How about during your service? Did you find yourself befriending any specific individuals over a period of time or did you…have you…have you come away from this experience with certain friends? Reibman: Thoroughly involved with the world of dance. I was part of it and they were my friends, theater. You could see it. I was…I'm not in this photo. I have pictures at home. There was every show. I was in anything that was a party. If there was anything that was happening, I was in it. I get…you sure better believe it, cause I have to tell you. I was part of it. Even over here when he did that uh…that Broadway show. I don't know what it is. I just have that feeling. Interviewer: How often would you put on shows? Reibman: At least every two weeks, approximately or whenever we could, you know. Special service did that. And of course, they always wanted…if they had dancers, I was always there for sure. I mean like…I danced with the best dancers. Interviewer: What kind of shows were these? Reibman: They were Army shows, Army skits and it was always a take-off and a rank-out about the officers and it was kind of…a little uh….getting back in a sense. Make fun of it or kind of making a joke out of it. Nothing nasty. Nothing vulgar. Basically I find them to be a very highly intellectual group of people that I met there. Especially if they're involved in theater and all that. They were diversified. Some became producers when they left the service. Interviewer: Where these theatrical shows rehearsed or were they impromptu? Reibman: Oh, they wrote it and the ones that…some of them…some of them have uh…bought…they had bought the uh…I have the stuff at home that we did. And I worked in camp, incidentally, for twenty-two years. When I left the service, I worked as I…I worked in camp. I worked in one camp seven years. I was camp director, dance theater, director and I always worked up near Tanglewood. I always was in charge of the groups or teaching dance and I was always giving back this kind of feeling that I had to be in the world of theater and arts and music. I worked up in Massachusetts, the Catskills. That's what I'm thinking about. I was always working in the summer. I had the dance studio in the winter, worked in the summer. My husband used to come up all the time and everything was theater, dance and I was always on the move. Interviewer: Were these shows that you were putting on, were these for the troops that were about to embark or the troops returning or just whomever wanted to attend? Reibman: Both. Interviewer: Both. Reibman: Yeah. The idea was to give them an entertainment. And sometimes we…most of our shows were about Army life, but not poking fun, but…sense…you know, making a little joke our of it but not nasty. And there was never any anger. Not that I…I have this…I have some of the stuff at home. There was never that kind of anger, of…when they came out of the service, I think they were frustrated, a lot of them, because they didn't know. Now, now, somebody says to you, “You have to think for yourself. You're gonna have to figure out where you want to go from here.” But when you're in the service, you can think, but you don't over think. They think for you. They tell you where to go, what to do, when to eat, when to sleep and what to do. And that [inaudible]. But I was lucky. When I went to the Washington Lee University at the base…just college, they taught us other things. How to deal with G.I.s who had particular situations. Interviewer: So it's a… Reibman: I mean, you know, how do… Interviewer: Sort of a survival training. Reibman: Well, to embellish them and to give them something of…a little joy of…understanding or release. It was a very…a very highly intensified course. I mean, we really went from one class to another and went on the parade grounds and we took our tests and there were generals…there were colonels there. And…all pictures at home. I should have brought them with you [sic]. I have some more that were really great. Big shots like that of the whole unit. It was an exciting time of our life [sic] when we'd sit down on the grounds with this captain who would sit down. We'd talk about situations, how we would handle it. And we'd all sit down. A very relaxed atmosphere. “How would you handle this?” or “What do you think will happen?” and “If this should happen,” you know. In other words, they said, “Here. Here's a package. What are you gonna do with it? Open it up and see what's inside.” And see, they were opening up little molecules or folicules [sic], whatever you want to call it in your brain. The little marbles were moving around. Interviewer: These skills that they were teaching you, did you find that you were able to use them later? Reibman: Oh, of course. Absolutely. Interviewer: So in your [inaudible] with G.I.s… Reibman: Absolutely. There was nothing that you learn that you cannot utilize at some time in your life. If you don't learn, you have nothing to utilize. Am I right? Right. Interviewer: When during your career within the service did you attend Washington and Lee? Reibman: Oh. Interviewer: Was it… Reibman: I'd have to… Interviewer: Was it tail end or the middle or beginning? Reibman: No, about the middle. Yeah. You know, things went so fast for me in my life that I was always on the move. It was like I was…I was eating his piece of cake, I'm eating it and I'm ready for that piece of cake. [laughs] Think about it. I'm still the same way. How do I slow up? I'm gonna be eighty-three in November. Wow. Wow. And I've got miles to go. Interviewer: Your approach to G.I.s in the first half of your career within the service and then attending Washington and Lee and then afterwards, did you find that you really evolved in your approach to the war environment and G.I.s and their particular needs or concerns? Reibman: I was prepared for any situation at any time because…I'm going to use that word philosophy. If people sit down and think it out and say, “What is the benefit of griping or complaining? What are you gonna do about it?” So whatever situation came along, even if I didn't like it, there was nothing I could do about it. I had to accept it. And that's life. So when people are angry and they blame everybody, sometimes they've got to sit down and talk to themselves. I want to say one thing. My studio was a huge success because I came to the level of the children. I would sit the boys…I taught gymnastics to boys. I would sit them on the seat and I would sit on the floor and I'd say, “Okay, something or nothing”. And nobody could talk. They told me about their body, why they liked sports and then when they were all finished, we'd go out on the floor and we'd do some basic moves that they liked. I always did everything that they liked because they generated electricity to me to go further. I would race them across the room and when I had their bodies going, “Good.” Then we'd go through the basis…there were mats, doing mats, round-offs, cartwheels, back handsprings, back handsprings…a little…whatever, you know. And I did the same with the girls. I taught them folk for the preschoolers, because folk dancing got them together to work as a group. To work people to…people have to learn how to work together to be together and the folk dancing was wonderful. And then I would give them basic ballet. And everything was basic. Not to deform their bodies, but to develop the skill of utilizing what your body can do for you. So the mind and the body have to work together at a happy medium. And for…even women's classes that I had. And I studied, as I said, I have bongos and I always did what women would do. And I had two women's classes. I worked seven days a week social dancing. I generated more energy by working more than working less. The more I worked, the more I do, the more energy I have. The less I do, the less I'm gonna put forth. Interviewer: And this is the attitude you used during the service as well. Reibman: Well, it was the same way. I've always been that way. I always… Interviewer: I have a question about the camp and the way it was structured. Did the G.I.s who were about to embark, would they intermingle with the G.I.s who were returning from service? Was this sort of an open camp or did…were they separated? [Tape 1, Side B] Reibman: They were separated to a degree, because…if they came to have their records taken care of, that's the only relationship they'd have with them. But the people that came together were a unit and they had something in common. The people that were working, their future was there in camp or to go onward. But those who came back, they were in disarray. “Where do I go from here? What do I do? My career was stopped. My schooling was stopped. I saw things that I never thought I would get to see in my life, horrible things.” And some of them were malcontent, some were angry and some were gonna do something about something.” World War Two? That's prevalent. So they were faced with a dilemma; how to go out and face the world and make a life. Interviewer: So it might not have been productive to have them intermingle with the G.I.s who… Reibman: It had nothing to do with it. Interviewer: Okay. Reibman: They were just there to get their discharge and to leave and go on. And it was a quick decision. Like butta booma [phonetic] you're in and going overseas and that's it. “Here's your job. You're going to Italy. You're going to France. You're going to Ethiopia” or wherever. I'm talking about Army. When they come back, they're faced with a situation; “What do I do with what I've got now? What do I do with what I have now?” They don't have the same perspective in life because they've changed. They see something that was [sic] horrific, horrible. How do they deal with it? Interviewer: Were you in service at the time that the war came to an end? Reibman: You know, at the moment I can't think. I think so. I was discharged. Yeah. Interviewer: But do you remember the day the war itself…that Japan had surrendered? Reibman: Well, I'd have to look at my discharge papers. As for the…we had special classes at both camps where they would tell us about the war and what was materializing. But they only told us what they thought we needed to know. Our job was to follow orders, exactly. And whatever opinions we had, we had to close down that…we could have them, but they were stored in back. Here. Because we couldn't utilize that because we're taking orders. We're here to finish the war, do a job and go home. Interviewer: Well, Katherine, we're approaching the end of the tape. So what we'll do is we'll go over the…we've got some photocopies of some materials that we went through before starting the tape. Why don't we go over these. We'll have you explain what they are and then, if there's anything I failed to ask you about that you think is important to be memorialized by the tape, we'll go ahead and discuss that as well. Okay? Reibman: Is the tape still going? Interviewer: Yes, it is. And I've got in my hand now an enlarged copy of your honorable discharge card. Reibman: Right. Okay. Interviewer: And there's two pages here. Reibman: Oh. My husband was on the Greeley. Did I tell you? Interviewer: Um-hmm. Reibman: Do you have the picture of this? Interviewer: No, but you can hold this up for the camera, if you'd like? Reibman: Oh. And here I am volunteering. Oh, this is my brother, Steve. I don't know if you can see that. Interviewer: Yes. Reibman: And there's Steve, the one that was in New Guinea and Australia, Brisbane. And then, there we are. I'm still active with the World War Two veterans. I'm in all their parades. They can't get rid of me until I die. [laughs] That's tough. And that's the Greeley, that I was on [sic]. Interviewer: Let me get you to hold up the honorable discharge card so we can identify that. That will be submitted in the archive along with the tape. Reibman: I think I'll put it up this way. [inaudible] I'm so embarrassed talking about myself like this. Interviewer: Now were these the cards that you would help the G.I.s produce when they were discharged? Reibman: No. I had nothing to do with it. Interviewer: Okay. Reibman: That gave me that and I've kept it all along with my thumbprint and anything else, all the background. When I went into the Army and when I got out and all that. Interviewer: Okay. Now we've got…you can hand me those. We've got three photographs and if you can just look at these. Hold it up to the camera so we can identify which piece of paper that is. Reibman: Okay. All right. That's two five, Technical Corporal Katherine Reibman. I finally got that when I got out. And one of the jobs they gave me, till they [inaudible] into my final job, was to teach people at…oh, this is the discharge group. They put me in for a very short while to teach people how to build a house and what kind of a house they'd like to have. I knew nothing about it. They probably knew more about it than I. But they gave me books and I read the books and I showed them the books and we discussed it and what was proper and whatnot. Because they were going home. They were gonna build homes and they were gonna make a future. So, they had a course. They had all kinds of courses for these young people who left. This is one of the G.I.s.--he was typical--who came through camp and we would talk and he was in the world of art. He was a person who created the most magnificent jewelry ever. Very, very, very expensive. Top of the line. Because he typified some of the young men who came in and [inaudible] different worlds of endeavor. They did other jobs, of other things. Interviewer: Now we've got a larger picture here, which you can hold up for the camera so they can… Reibman: Oh, I'm not in it. I already get [sic] to the other one. This is one of the typical shows that we were in. That's Ruth McLeary, who ironically enough had been in show business and we hit it off great. And Ruth was great. And these are people who were in the world of theater and music and art and they actually became involved and… Interviewer: Does this typify what shows were [inaudible]? Reibman: This is a typical show at the Uppy House. Interviewer: Okay. Reibman: I wish I had the other picture, which was a great one. Interviewer: And this… Reibman: We were doing the hula. The fellas were doing the hula. It was funny. Interviewer: That looks like a treatment or a synopsis of the show. Is that right? Reibman: Could be. Interviewer: It was attached to the photograph itself. Reibman: Okay. [inaudible] hospital days. Yeah. But the armed forces, that's a convalescent camp. It became a convalescent camp. So we entertained there also. And that's Sergeant Jean Marvey and…at Mount Sinai, Long Island. The directors, players left to right: PFC Ruth McLeary who was from Allentown, Pennsylvania; Sergeant [inaudible] of Flushing, Long Island; ( I was in Queens); and T. [inaudible] Elsworth of Kentucky; and Duncan Alridge of [inaudible]. Some of these people were in show business or musicians. Interviewer: Now this photograph of the show and this paragraph entitled, “The Right Direction”, was that used as an advertisement for the show itself or was that just sort of after the fact that [inaudible]? Reibman: Well, that's…they put that on the program. Interviewer: Okay. Reibman: And I really have some more stuff at home that I really didn't get a chance to bring because they were very updated and upgraded [sic]. Oh, and some of the things I have here are just by way of jokes. Of course we went out, a lot, in New York. And that's…the G.I.s were very, very, very, very, very respectful, especially to women. Extremely, depending upon the woman. And these were some of the pictures. We used to go nightclubbing a lot in Manhattan because Camp Upton is Long Island. Interviewer: Let's [inaudible]. I'll have some photocopies made of these two photographs you just showed. Reibman: Right. Oh, here's one. Oh, this is us going horse…we rode polo ponies out in Camp Upton. There's my captain up there, Captain Walsh, and the G.I.s. Some were from New York and we became friends over the years. We went horseback riding. We did a lot of things together. We worked and played together. Interviewer: Now I've got some photocopies of some cards. Why don't you identify these. Reibman: Okay. I'm sorry. Oh, that's my husband, Al Reed, Abe Reibman. This is Abe Reibman, the [inaudible] “of the golden dragon, ruler of the hundred and eightieth meridian:. And he was on…it's [inaudible]. It's April forty-fifth [sic]. That's latitude seven, SOS [inaudible]. Interviewer: Do you know what that card is? Reibman: It's US General A.W. Greeley and it's…that he belongs to this, to the sailors “wherever you may be, to all mermaids, dragons, spirits of the deep, devil chambers and chasers and all of the living creatures of the sea, greetings. Know ye that on the twenty-fifth of April, forty-five…” That's [inaudible]. Here's another, plank owners. That what they gave the sailors. “To all sailors wherever…[inaudible] by these present, A. Reibman, was a member of the original crew which was commissioned to the USS General Greeley, rights and privileges” and whatever. And that's March, nineteen forty-five, twenty-second. And “ancient order of the deep. This is to certify that A. Reibman had been gathered to our fold and duly initiated as a trusted shellback, having crossed the equator on board ship.” Interviewer: Okay. [inaudible] Reibman: Oh. “Class A pass, Camp Upton.” That was my life, getting a pass. [laughs]. “Pass number eighty-six. Date of issue seven, twenty-one, forty-six. WAC detachment twelve oh eight SESU, Katherine Glass.” That was my name. “Private, serial number eight two oh seven four eight oh.” Interviewer: So that pass was what entitled you to leave the camp to go… Reibman: Yeah. “Authorized to be absent from camp”. It gave me permission to leave camp during…Upton, “during hours indicated by reversed side”. Interviewer: How often were you allowed to leave the camp? Reibman: On weekend pass unless…the one time I didn't get it is when I pulled KP cause I was late. That was it. I never broke rules. I [inaudible] rules. Interviewer: So on a usual weekend you would leave camp. Reibman: Oh, yeah. Go home. Go to my friends in New York. Go nightclubbing. Have a good time. Great time. Interviewer: And then the last two. Looks like a registration from the military census and inventory of nineteen seventeen. State of New York. Reibman: Oh, that's my father. Interviewer: First [inaudible] Max Glass. Max is your father? Reibman: Yeah. Max Glass was my father and my mother, Celia Glass. And they came from Russia. And he…”certificate of military census and inventory, nineteen seventeen”. And he was registered. And I'm very proud of the fact that he came here just about World War One and he was supposed to go in, but he had children. But he did have to register. And he wrote beautifully. He had a beautiful handwriting. Very literate person. Both parents. They spoke languages, they loved music and the arts and they were very, very low key. Very low key. And they always explained everything and why I'm doing it and do I have any questions. But I did it anyway. [laughs] Interviewer: Who [inaudible]? Who's that? Reibman: I have a brother and a sister. Right. There I am at the Washington Lee University where I had this two-week course which was INE A&R and it was a very, very exciting experience because anybody who went there had to have something upstairs. And I think I made…I got it. [laughs] Interviewer: I'm gonna make photocopies of those two pictures and [inaudible]. Reibman: Right. Yeah. Oh, this is bivouac, which was the funniest thing ever. [inaudible sentence] We all had a lot of fun. It wasn't a chore. It was just a…it was a…we all went together. We just did it. There were no gripes. Pitch a tent. We learned how to use a gun which we never used. It was all very wonderful. Interviewer: Is there anything before we turn the camera off? Is there anything I haven't asked you about that you did want to discuss? Reibman: Oh, like what I do now? With the groups? Interviewer: How are you active now? Yes. Reibman: Extremely active with the World War Two group. And here we are being honored by the veterans. And what I do in my life now, I volunteer at the symphony Thursday. Georgia Public Television on pledge and that's for many, many years. I'm here since ninety-three. I work conscientiously every Friday and Saturday at the [inaudible] auditorium. I've got a couple of awards. I'm active with World War Two veterans and here, Outstanding Achievement [inaudible]. I got an award with these World War Two veterans and that was honoring women vets and that was with, what's her name. Kathy Cox, secretary of state [Florida]. And I'm active with the veterans at the VA hospital. I cover the…I do articles for them for Doctor Melton and I do the photography for all their shows and I…photography's become my love and I'm very happy to do that. And I do other things. I don't know. I just can't keep up with me. [laughs] I'm just…I'm hungry. I want to live my life to the fullest and if I'm gonna say no, I'm gonna miss all the delicious…even the bad parts of life. And here they have a synopsis of the people here, when we were honored that day at the courthouse. It was such a great experience. Everybody was so glad to be together and share our experiences. Katherine Reibman. I don't know what I wrote. Interviewer: Katherine, I thank you for sharing your experience. Reibman: Thank you.
Metadata URL:: http://album.atlantahistorycenter.com/cdm/ref/collection/VHPohr/id/173
Additional Rights Information:: This material is protected by copyright law. (Title 17, U.S. Code) Permission for use must be cleared through the Kenan Research Center at the Atlanta History Center. Licensing agreement may be required.
Extent:: 59:19
Original Collection:: Veterans History Project oral history recordings
Veterans History Project collection, MSS 1010, Kenan Research Center, Atlanta History Center
Holding Institution:: Atlanta History Center
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