- Collection:
- Veterans History Project: Oral History Interviews
- Title:
- Oral history interview of Rose Gold Cunningham
- Creator:
- Maclin, H. T.
Cunningham, Rose Gold, 1927- - Date of Original:
- 2003-11-12
- Subject:
- Anti-Semitism
World War, 1939-1945--Refugees
B-24 (Bomber)
B-17 bomber
Ploies?ti, Battles of, Ploies?ti, Romania, 1943-1944
World War, 1939-1945
Cunningham, John Hunt, 1922-2010
Hemingway, Ernest, 1899-1961
Massell, Sam, 1927-
Ceaus?escu, Nicolae
Shelton, Opie
University of Havana
United Service Organizations (U.S.)
Georgia Institute of Technology
Georgia State University
University of Madrid
Emory University
United States. Central Intelligence Agency
National Broadcasting Company
Consolidated B-24 Liberator (bomber)
Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress (bomber) - People:
- Allen, Ivan, 1911-2003
Nixon, Richard M. (Richard Milhous), 1913-1994 - Location:
- France, Île-de-France, Paris, 48.85341, 2.3488
France, Port Manech, 47.8012167, -3.7415725
Italy, Lazio, Rome, Rome, 41.89193, 12.51133
Italy, Ventimiglia, 43.7917623, 7.6033131
Morocco, Casablanca, 33.5950627, -7.6187768
Romania, Bucharest, 44.4361414, 26.1027202
Strait of Gibraltar, 35.95, -5.6
United States, Georgia, 32.75042, -83.50018
United States, Georgia, Atlanta Metropolitan Area, 33.8498, 84.4383 - Medium:
- video recordings (physical artifacts)
mini-dv - Type:
- Moving Image
- Format:
- video/quicktime
- Description:
- In this interview, Rose Cunningham describes her life experiences. Born in Romania to a French father and Romanian mother, she was raised as a Catholic, attending a parochial school. Her father worked for the French diplomatic corps. When war broke out in Europe, her parents informed her that they were Jewish. Her father had been fired because he was a Jew and they needed to flee Europe. She describes the hazards and perils they encountered in their flight, including bombardments, being hidden by French citizens, and scraping enough money together to get to safety. They used 1902 Napoleons because cash had no value. They left Paris the day before it was occupied by the Germans. While in Bordeaux, they survived a bombardment by the British and were able to buy visas at the Cuban Consulate in Marseilles. They were able to obtain passage on a freighter carrying 500 Jewish refugees. The freighter had no cabins and they slept on the decks. They traveled from France to Africa, Jamaica, Mexico, and finally to Cuba. When they arrived, the ship was stopped in the harbor and they were told their passports were no good and they would have to pay an additional fee. Some passengers jumped overboard in despair, but those who promised they could raise the funds were taken to a camp called Tiscornia. She found the camp to be pleasant, with plenty of food; the parents organized a school. After six months, their funding came through and they were released. Her father obtained employment with National Cash Register. Rose went to college and worked at a bookstore. After the war, she moved with her husband to Atlanta and became Honorary Consulate of Costa Rica. During the Cold War, she returned to Romania and worked with the press. After obtaining a White House press pass in Romania, she was followed by the Romanian Secret Police. She was offered a job with the CIA as an "observer," but refused it because she thought her relatives in Romania may be threatened. She recalls her time spent teaching and what it meant to her. She also briefly describes her husband's career as a pilot in the USAAF.
Rose Gold Cunningham was a WWII refugee.
ROSE CUNNINGHAM VETERANS HISTORY (HOMEFRONT) INTERVIEW ATLANTA HISTORY CENTER Wednesday, November 12, 2003 Interviewer: H. T. Maclin Transcriber: Linzy Emery My name is Rose, Gold (?sp) is my maiden name, Cunningham. And I live at 1232 Alta Vista Drive NE. I've been living there for forty-five years. Q: That same address? Same address. Q: I understand that you spent your first few years in Romania. I was born in Bucharest, Romania. Q: Tell me your earliest recollections about Bucharest? Well, Bucharest is a modern city, and with a great French culture. I went to a Catholic school. And my father was in the French diplomatic corps. And my mother was Romanian. And at the age of 11 I was uprooted. And at the age of 11, after having celebrated Christmas and Easter and going to a private Catholic school, I learned that I was Jewish. Q: After 11 years? Yes. We never, in my home we never mentioned the word Jewish. We never celebrated any of the Jewish holidays. I had no idea that we were Jewish. And that's the reason we were leaving Romania. And it was 1939, the war started. Q: And you were 11 years old then? Yes. Q: What year were you born? 1927, but that's in December I was born, so…. Now you know exactly if I lied or not. Q: So you were 11 years old when you discovered that you were not Catholic… I was Jewish. Q: But you were Jewish. Were both your parents Jewish? Yes. And I had no idea, because like I said before, I was raised Catholic. I celebrated all the Catholic holidays. So it came as a tremendous shock to find out that I was not who I thought I was. Q: How did that affect you? What did you think about that? I was angry, extremely angry. Because I felt like… Q: What was the source of your anger? I was angry because I was not who I thought I was. I had friends, you know, who were Catholics. And I was raised, I went to a Catholic school, I wanted to be a nun, when I was 11. And all of a sudden I'm told by my dad we were leaving because – why are we leaving?! We had a gorgeous house. And then he told me, because we are Jewish and we have to leave Europe because of Hitler. Q: Did he… The war had not started yet. No, but it started that year. Q: Was this…..? That was in 1939. Q: '39? Um hmm, at the beginning of 1939. Q: Do you have some idea of what he or your mother heard about what was happening that caused them to suddenly decide to leave? My father was in the diplomatic corps, he got fired from his job because he was Jewish. Q: Oh, they knew he was Jewish? Well, you know, they knew that he had Jewish roots. They all know, they know that. However, like I said before, I never, none of us knew that, thought we were Jewish. And it came as a real surprise…. Q: Did you have brothers and sisters? Yes, I had a brother. He's dead now. He was three years older. And he went to a Catholic school also. So it was really a shock. Of course, we were uprooted. We had to leave everything and go to France, because that's where my father was born. That was in 1939. And we went to France… Q: So you went to France from Romania. We went to France because…. Q: How did you get there? By train, deluxe…. Q: Were there any problems with the traveling…? The only problem we had was when we arrived at the border of Intermelia [?], which is in Italy, my mother had a Romanian passport. And the guards stopped her, or stopped us, and said you can't, you must have a visa to France. You can't go into France. My father was furious. He said, she has a diplomatic, if you look closer, it's a diplomatic passport. She never had any troubles before. And the guard said, well, I'm sorry, but these are very uncertain times and she must have a visa. You and your children can proceed, but not Mrs. Gold. So we had to go to Rome, to the French embassy, which my father knew everybody, and secure a French visa for my mother. And we did that. Q: Did you have to wait a few days? No, no. We, while we were there. My father knew the, he was in the diplomatic also. He knew what you have to do. Q: What were his duties in the diplomatic corps? He was in the, he was a commercial attaché. Q: And what did that involve? It involved traveling a lot. And, of course, my father spoke five languages, and so do I. And so he was very busy in his career. And then when they fired him…. Q: And they fired him because he had Jewish… Oh, yeah, absolutely. Sure. They were firing all the Jews. And of course, there was a tremendous anti-Semitic feeling in Romania. Which I didn't know, I was a child. I didn't know the anti-Semitic feeling in Romania was tremendous. And that's one reason that my parents never divulged the fact that we were actually Jewish. We didn't practice Judaism. We didn't practice, you know, we were not…. In Europe it's different than in the states. You know, here you go to a church or to a synagogue and it's part of the social strata. Back there, you go to a church or synagogue and pray and then you leave. Nobody knows you, it's done. And this is done even today. It's nothing to do with the social aspect of your life. Q: So the release of your father from the diplomatic post came because of how the Romanians viewed Jews, rather then pressure from the German side? Well, not German, the French. Q: I mean French side. Well, he was French. Q: Yeah, oh I see, okay. So, that's what happened in 1939, at the beginning of 1939. And the purpose of going to France was that my father was going to secure visas to any country that would take us, to get out of Europe. He saw the sign, he was very intelligent, he was up-to-date, and he'd made a lot of money and he sent the money to the United States. He was very smart about that. And he, because he dealt in the stock market, and he just saw the handwriting on the wall. He knew we had to get out of there. Q: And from all he had heard, even in 1939… Oh, it started in 1936. Q: He could see it all coming? Oh, sure. The concentration camps started long before '39. Everybody knew about it except the Americans. They didn't know. Q: Where were the concentration camps in Romania? I don't know where they were, no. Q: So when your parents secured the visa in Italy for you to go to France… And then we went to France, and then we went to France and we went to Paris, for my father knew Paris inside out. He started going to all the countries that could issue a visa. Of course, the United States, you can't buy a visa, but you can all the other countries. And he tried everything. Hong Kong. He tried South America, Brazil, and finally the country that came through was Cuba. Q: Cuba. How long did you live in France then? Until '42. We left February '42. Q: You left February '42. Yeah. We already were under German occupation. Q: You were already under and they had not discovered that you were Jews? We were hiding. Q: You were in hiding. Did friends hide you there? No, we did. My father, my father was a very enterprising young man. He knew how to get around. Q: What was the nature of the place where you hid? Coast of Marseilles. Q: The coast of Marseilles? Yeah, in Marseilles. In Marseilles. But before Marseilles we were in Paris and my father sent us to a summer camp while he could. It was not war yet, war was not declared until September 3rd, 1939. And I know that date, it's very clear in my mind, because on that date my brother and I were having a picnic on the beach in Port Manic (?) in Brittany at a summer camp while my parents were in Paris trying to secure a visa. Q: How long had you been in Paris by that time? A few months, because we arrived in February, and this was June. So we went to, Ben (?) and I went to Port Manic to the summer camp (inaud) father found out about it. It was lovely. And then on September 3rd we heard war started. England and France declared war on Germany. And then the camp was dismantled, it was dis, you know, closed, and my parents came over to Brittany to get us. But they decided that they loved Port Manic, they loved that part of France, Bretagne, and they decided to rent a cottage and stay there and wait there for the visa. The war started, but you know, it was a funny war. I don't know if you are a historian, do you remember? The first six months nothing really happened. Q: That's true. Because it was like a really (inaud) war, you didn't hear about it, nothing. You didn't know that the Germans were occupying other countries. They didn't bother too much with France, because when they did, they invaded, (inaud) and then they came right through in '40, I would say, '41. So anyway, we stayed there for six months and then we went back to Paris. Nothing happened, my father said we have to go back to Paris. Q: Had the Nazis occupied? Not yet, oh no, we would have never gone back then. No this was 1940…. Q: 40? 40. And we stayed until '41. In '41, a day before the Germans occupied Paris we left on the train to Marseilles. Q: The day before? The day before. Date. The date was, I think it was June 12th. It's all in my book. Q: So you left then for Marseilles. And where did you go in Marseilles? Well we went to Bordeaux first. Bordeaux it was a bomb, bombardment. Terrific bombardment. Q: German bombardment? No, it was a British, I learned later. We had to get off the train, and we were almost killed there. The station was bombed, there was blood and smoke everywhere. It was awful. I'll never forget that place. Q: Was there an awareness that the bombs that were falling were coming from British planes? No we didn't know that. Now I know that, I learned later. It was a British. But anyway, we had a little suitcase and we started walking in the country, away from the station. In the station there were a lot of dead. We walked and we came to this farm, and my father had money and he told the farmer, “Look, why don't you let us stay here a few days? We are on our way to Marseilles.” And the farmer did. Q: And you walked there? We walked, yes. Q: Was that, was that a few miles out of town? I can't remember. It was a long time for me. The suitcase got heavier and heavier. Q: On the farm now, where did the farmer put you up? In the barn. Q: In the barn. Did you go up in the hayloft, things like that? Yeah, right, right. And then one day, my father had gone to town. My father spoke German fluently. He went to town and he saw the Germans, they were there. Q: They were in Marseilles? No, this was before Marseilles, this is in close to Bordeaux, a little town, I don't remember the name of it. So he came running back to the farm and he said, “We've got to leave. They are here.” And the farmer came up and he said, “I can't keep you any longer, because I could go to jail.” Because it was strictly against the French law to help Jews. And we, he did buy us a car, a second hand car. My father had money, so that's what saved us. Q: So he bought you a car? Well, you know, he bought us a jalopy. Q: But in any case, you had four wheels… Yeah, I had four wheels. It broke down all the time, my father hated it! He hated to drive… Q: What did you do at that point? We drove to Marseilles, the car broke down, and we had to walk again. Q: You left the car at the side of road? We left, it was a wreck. Out a lot of money, we paid a lot of money for that. And then we found a, there was an organization in Marseilles that helped the Jews escape. Q: How did your father discover the organization? I don't know. My father knew everybody. It was amazing how well connected he was, how smart, how resourceful he was. Had he not been, I would not be here talking to you. So he found an apartment, an attic apartment. That's where we were hiding. And then he started going again to all the embassies, all the consulates to find a visa. And Cuba came through. And that was in '42. Q: And where was the Cuban embassy? Well, it was at the consulate, in Marseilles. They were selling visas. Q: They were selling visas. Do you remember how much the visas cost? A thousand dollars per person, and in 1942 a thousand dollars was like, two hundred thousand today. And he bought the visas, he bought passage on the last ship that was leaving the next day. So he was, you know, go, go, go, go, go. Q: Was it a passenger ship? No, you kidding? Freighter. Q: Just a freighter. It was just a freighter, and we went to Spain, crossed the Gibraltar… Q: What were they ferrying on the freighter, were they carrying freight back to Cuba? No, they were not going to Cuba, they were going to Casablanca. And they had a lot of sheep, it stunk. Q: Live sheep. Yeah, live sheep. And we were five hundred Jewish refugees on board. You got to understand that these Jews were the most educated and the wealthiest ones that could get away. You know, a lot of Jews didn't. They were… So anyway, we arrived in Casablanca, there we had to change ships. And the second ship was the one that took us to Cuba, and it was a six week journey, in February. Q: Went down through the south Atlantic? Yes. It was horrible, I was sick all the time. I was already sick. Q: Again, was it a cargo-packed ship? Cargo. Absolutely, cargo. Q: And on the ship to Casablanca, with five hundred refugees aboard, obviously there was not sufficient cabin space. No, there were no cabins at all. Q: So you just stayed on the deck. The women were on one side and the men on the other. We stayed on the deck because the Straits of Gibraltar were bombed, not bombed, excuse me, mined. And we were told we could not (inaud) it was an overnight. We had to stay on the deck. Women on one side, men on the other, with our lifejackets. You can imagine, you know, I was twelve already by then, I'll tell you. Q: Was there anything to eat while you were on…? Yeah, they gave us some things to eat, if you can call that food. After we paid five hundred dollars per person for the voyage to Cuba. Q: All the way to Cuba. I've got to tell you another story. See the (inaud). This is a Napoleon (?). It's a (inaud) gold piece from 1902, and my parents had a lot of these. They traded these for food while we were in Marseilles, because gold, during war, money is worth nothing. Gold is. So he, and this was, there were four left and then, this is the symbol of my mother. And I carry it with me all the, everyday. She's with me. So anyway, we arrived in Cuba, I was sick, I had the beginning of tuberculosis. Q: Let me back up just a little bit. When you got to Casablanca, you debarked from the ship? Yes. Q: And were you a few days there or did you go directly onto the other ship? We were there a couple of days, waiting for another ship. Q: And did you just wait at the harbor? No, we were put in some kind of a building. Q: Some kind of a building. I don't remember but we had accoma, we had beds. I remember one thing. I had a twelve-egg omelet. Q: A twelve-egg ome… A twelve-egg, each one of us. Because, you know, eggs were rationed, everything was rationed and we were not entitled but to one egg a month, per person in, in Marseilles. So we ate, we ate plentiful. And fruits, oh, Casablanca was like… Q: It must have seemed like a little bit of heaven. It was heaven. And the fruits, tropical fruits… Q: And all those were available in Casablanca? Everything. You wouldn't believe war was on. Casablanca was like it was another world, you know, in '42. See, in '42, United States was already at war, and see, what happened was, in '41, when Pearl Harbor took place, the Germans were not in Marseilles. They had a demarcation zone. But when the Americans declared war on Germany, they occupied all of France. And that is where we knew we just had to leave. Had we not left, again, I'll tell you, the French would have sent us to die in a concentration camp. Q: The French. The French government, the Vichy Government at that time was anti-Semitic. They're still anti-Semitic today. Yes. Certainly. And they would send the Jews, they sent over a hundred thousand Jews to die. French Jews, mind you. There were very few exceptions that escaped. Q: Once your parents told you that you were, that the family was fleeing Romania because you were, in fact, Jewish, was there any effort on the part of the family from that time to… did their Jewishness make any difference in how their, was there attending of Synagogue anywhere? Oh, we never did. Q: Never did. No. Q: Never did. No. I didn't know anything about the Jewish religion, except that we were Jews and we had to leave. That was our crime. Q: I'm sure it was a shock when you found it out. Between the time you found it out and perhaps by the time you got to Cuba, did either you or your, was it your brother, did either of you question your parents about the fact the you were Jews and why…? Well we did that before, we did that on the train to Paris. Both of us, because my brother was two years older. Q: What sorts of responses? Nothing. We just asked them, what is going on? How come we're Jewish? Since when we're Jewish? And all that. Why do we have to leave? What's wrong? We didn't understand, you know, we were children. We didn't understand about Hitler and the concentration camps. It's dangerous, we're Jews, we're Jewish, we have Jewish antecedents, what you call it? And we have to leave, otherwise, we're on a death wish. And sure enough, we would have died. We would have died if we had stayed, so we went to Cuba, and Cuba was heaven. Q: So the voyage was six weeks? Six weeks long, and I was so sick. Q: Was it a rough voyage? Ah, it was awful. For me especially. I had the beginning of TB, and I was sick, already sick. I was sea sick. I was everything sick. Q: How many of you were aboard the freighter? Five hundred. Same Jews that came on the other. Q: And again, you were all just deck passengers? Oh, no. No. They had cots in the, in the… Q: Hole? In the hole they had cots. Men and women again separated, and they had cargo. They had grains, I don't know, it was a freighter. Santa Maria was the name. Q: Was it a Spanish freighter? Yes, it was, ah, Santa Maria. Yeah. The first ship was Portuguese, the second one was Spanish. Q: Now, between Casablanca and Cuba, did it make any intermediate stops anywhere? Oh, yeah. We stopped in Jamaica, we stopped in Mexico, in Vera Cruz. Q: Were you able to get off the ship? I had to go to the hospital every time, because I was sick. I was the only one that was allowed off, my family and I, to go to the hospital. Q: What sort of help did you get at the hospital? You know, just x-rays and what could they do? Nothing much, because I didn't stay there. And same thing, you know, telling my parents that… Q: They confirmed that you had tuberculosis? Yeah, well, I had the beginnings of tuberculosis. Q: Beginnings of… Yeah. And I had to be treated. It was penicillin and whatever they had in those days. But I couldn't because we couldn't stay there. I had to wait until we got to Cuba. Q: So when the ship, what port did the ship dock at in Cuba? Havana. Q: In Havana. I've got something very interesting to tell you about that. Q: Tell me about life in Havana, where you lived and that sort of thing? Wait a minute. Let's back up, when we arrived at the ship. When we arrived with the ship, the Cubans, the Cuban officials came on board. And said but these… Q: Havana Harbor. Yeah. Well, we did not dock. They stopped us in the middle of the harbor, and they came on board, the officials. And they said, sorry, but the visas you have are no good. This was during Batista's time. If you want to stay in Cuba you've got to pay another five hundred dollars per person. If not we're going to, if you can raise the money we're going to put you in a camp, which is across the bay from Havana, Bisconya was the name of it, until you can, if you think you can raise the money. If not, you have to go back to Europe. Well, there were soldiers on board. When they heard that, they jumped ship and drowned. Q: They jumped over the side? Um hmmm. And most, the rest accepted to go to that camp. That was the last ship from Europe. Q: Did the rest of you there give them some guarantee more or less that you would raise the money? Yeah, my father, they interviewed every one of us. And my father said, yes, I… We had, my father had contacts in the United States. He had money. That's what saved us. And all these people were rich Jews, I told you before. They were all educated people. They were all in the diamond business, they were all in, professors and doctors and lawyers. And all of this was the cream of the crop, you know, it was not, uh, the every day. It was really highly educated Europeans that had the means to get out, and had the brains to get out. Because a lot of Jews, you know, that had a lot of money, there were a lot of Jews stayed in Europe, because they said, well, you know, nothing's going to happen to us. We're too rich. But they died in the concentration camp also. Well, anyway, we were in the camp for six months. Q: How long did you sit on the ship before they let you off? They came and got us in tenders [?] and took us to the camp. Q: The same day? Yeah. And we stayed in the camp six months. Q: What sort of camp was it? It was very pleasant, like being in a resort. We had food, plenty of food. And the Europeans that were on board, they formed a school. They organized a school. And they, I went to school. And the children, because there were a lot of children, French. I learned all about the Greek mythology. Oh, it was tremendous. Do you know, that school, our teachers were so advanced, it would put a school here to shame, what we learned when I was twelve, the things that I learned. And then I would read a book every day. Oh, it was just a highly intelligent group of people. So we stayed six months and then my father, the money came through, and then we were allowed to go to Havana. Q: You could leave the camp? Yeah. Q: How did he get funds transferred from the US to… Probably. Yes, I guess he did. Um hmmm. But he had the money. Q: And where did you move to in Havana? Well, this Jewish organization, again, was very well organized. They found us an apartment in old Havana. And I started going to school and learned Spanish. It didn't take me long. Q: What was life like living in Havana at that time? It was wonderful. Beautiful, gorgeous. It, Havana was a gorgeous city. Not today. It's all destroyed and run down. It's awful. I know, I been there three years ago. And, because there were many jewelers on board, they started a new industry. It was a diamond cutting industry. There were a lot of Jews from Belgium. And they started that new industry. My brother worked in that industry. Q: In Cuba? Um hmmm. It was a great industry. My father got a job at the National Cash Register Company, and started selling cash registers. He became number one salesman and we moved to a better place. And, then I was growing, I went to school, and of course, I was growing, you know. Q: And the school was taught in French? Oh, no. In Spanish. No, that school was taught in Spanish. No, I already learned Spanish. The French, of course, already spoke Romanian and French. And I had an understanding of German, also. That was really common for Europeans to speak many languages. So, I started, I had a normal life, met some girls that were on the same ship, and we became very close friends. As a matter of fact, we kept the friendship to now, to today. And we had a reunion in Cuba, three years ago, with those girls. Q: When you went back to Cuba three years ago was the house where you lived in Havana still standing? I could not find it. Q: Couldn't find it? No. I looked for it. But my other friend, Ingrid, found her place. Q: Was she also from Romania? No, she was German. We became very close. There were four of us. One was, Florence and I were French. And then Ingrid and Jane were German. Q: But they were all Jewish? Everybody was Jewish. Everybody was Jewish. And they were all, of course, Jewish-Jewish. In other words, they knew they were Jewish. They went to a Jewish school. They knew they were, not like me, that I didn't know I was Jewish. And their families practiced Judaism. Except Florence, Florence did not. But Jane and Ingrid did. Q: Once you were settled in Havana then, did you ever go to the synagogue there? Never. That's one thing my father, I mean, we didn't go to any church. None. We didn't, not in my family. I wish we were something, because I loved the ritual and the traditions. I wish we were, we had followed the Jewish traditions. I think they were nice. Q: But he was, your parents were obviously so traumatized by the whole scene in Romania that it was just, an impossible situation…. Impossible, yeah. So then I was a teenager, and one summer I got a job at a local, I was sixteen. I got a job at a bookstore, to work in the summer, and that was hard because I spoke so many languages. And one day this drunk old stinking man came in and he was Ernest Hemingway. So I met him. Q: So you met him? Yes, it's in my book. You've got to get my book and read this stuff. Q: Did you have idea who he was? No. I threw a book on his head, as a matter of fact, on purpose. Because he would make me go off and …[phone goes off] anyway, Ernest Hemingway, I'll never forget it, because he was a lecherous…. Q: Didn't he have a beard at the time? Well, he was filthy and bearded, drunk. He'd come into my bookstore. It was next door to the Filarita [?] bar. And he'd go in the morning and have his cocktail there. Then he'd come to the bookstore to see how many books we had sold. I didn't know who he was. I was sixteen, you know. All I know is that he would say to me, climb that ladder and get me that book over there because he wanted to look under my skirt. And so I dropped a book on his head and the owner of the bookstore came running. And he said, and Hemingway was very angry and he left angry. And he said, what did you do? And I said, oh, it was an accident. I dropped a book, I lied. Q: When did you realize what sort of man he was, or who he was? My boss told me. Q: Oh, she told you? He. He said, I'm sorry, if you didn't know, this was Ernest Hemingway, the most famous writer in the world at that time. But I don't care you know, he's drunk and always bothers me. Q: Did he come back into the bookstore? Everyday. Oh, yeah, he did. Q: He kept coming back. He kept coming back, running after me. Even though I was sixteen. He was a dirty old man. In all respects of the word. Q: And he was living in Havana at the time. Oh, he lived in Havana years. That's where he wrote the Old Man and the Sea. Oh, he was a great artist, author. Anyway, that was one… Q: What did you parents do in Havana? My father worked for the National Cash Register Company. My mother just run the house. She never worked. Q: Did he travel out of Cuba? No, he couldn't. Just in Havana. He couldn't, he couldn't go to the United States. We wanted to, but we couldn't. Q: So, you were in Cuba for about two years? Oh, no, I was in Cuba six years. Q: Six years? And did you finish your schooling… I finished high school and started college. Q: What college did you go to? The University of Havana, first year. I was eighteen. Q: What were you studying there? Languages. Yeah, for me it was the easiest. And then one day I was invited to go to the U.S. base [?] [something]. And the US dance [?] organization in Cuba was run by some matrons, very wealthy matrons of Cuba. It was very strict. You had to come with a chaperone, with my mother, to the dances. But it was very nice. It was not how some of the other US [something] were run. This one was really nice. And the girls were all very nice. And that's where I met my husband. He was in the air force, John Cunningham, and he had just … Q: He was based in Cuba? Well, he had just flown first in combat missions in Europe. And, they sent him to Cuba to do something. He was an engineer, an engineer on board in Mombadere [?]. They sent him to Cuba… Q: What type of aircraft did he fly? B-24's and B-17's. As a matter of fact, he bombed Clarisht [?], next door to Bucharest. Yeah, he was on the Clarishte raid. So, I met him…. Q: You met him at the USO? I met him at a dance, when I was eighteen years old. And, I couldn't speak English, he couldn't speak Spanish. He couldn't speak anything. How could he, he just came from Alabama. We just, I guess we just got along, liked each other. He liked me for sure. Q: So did he learn Spanish quickly? No! Are you kidding? He's from Alabama I tell you. He hasn't learned it to today! Q: So you learned English quickly. I learned English quickly. He courted me. You know, he came over to ask my mother, and a year later we got married. Q: What did you parents think of him? My father hated him. Q: Why? Because he was an American. Because he wouldn't marry his [something…] My mother liked him but my father didn't like him at all. My father never liked, you know how fathers are. Well, maybe you don't know. But to him, you know, he was a stranger… Q: Did you parents think you were too young at the time? Oh, yeah. They didn't want me to. I wanted to get married and come to the United States. And every time I had a quarrel with my husband I always would tell him, I married you because I wanted to come to the United States. We've been married fifty-six years now. And love it. You know. So John was, of course, a World War II hero. And we got married and flew from Havana to Miami and then we came on a bus to Atlanta, Georgia. And John was discharged from the Air Force and he started at Georgia Tech. He wanted to be an architect. That was his dream. And he became an architect, and he did very well in his career. Had his own company. And he built a lot of bunks. He specialized in bunks [?]. And he became quite successful. Q: So, how long did you know John before you were married? Well, I didn't, because he wasn't there all the time. A little less than a year. Q: And what did your father say when you announced you were going to get married? Well, when John wrote to me from the United States and he said, let's get married by proxy, on the telephone, my father went to the embassy. And he didn't know about this proxy. It was very clever though. And they told him, it's illegal. So when he heard that, he hired a detective to have John, uh, to find out who he really was. And then we found out that John was married and he was getting a divorce. He was married and he stayed married for six months. But he did get his divorce and it was determined to marry him. But my father was, and he said, they only way he can marry you, he has to come to Cuba. We're not going to do it by, well, it was illegal. Q: How long from the time you met him at the USO dance until he returned to the US? About a year. Q: He was in Cuba for about a year then. Well, off and on. Q: Off and on? Was he flying out of… Yeah, he was flying in and out. Q: Where was he flying to? San Juan, he was flying to San Juan and Miami. And I don't know, Seattle I think he flew, too, because he was still in the armed forces. Q: Still in the Air Force. He was still in the Air Force. Yeah, he didn't get a discharge until he came, went back, and went and got his, got his discharge from, and started, enrolled at Georgia Tech. He had already enrolled before we got married, he enrolled at Georgia Tech. Of the GI bill. And then when he came back, we got married, I came back to the States with him. I was utterly miserable, homesick, cold – it was December. It was horrible. Q: Was your wedding in Havana? Yeah, we got married at a restaurant. Well, at the City Hall, and then we went to the restaurant. It was just my parents, my brother and I. And in those days, the weddings were not like here. No, not in our case. Q: Your father obviously finally consented. Finally consented. But never liked him. Never. Even later on. Q: Why did he finally give in? Because he saw that you were simply going to do it anyway? Yes. Exactly. So, I came to Atlanta. And here I was in Atlanta. And to me Atlanta, and this was before 1950, it was in 1947. And I disliked it immensely. I found it… Q: What did you dislike about Atlanta? It was so provincial. Q: In what way? Nobody spoke any languages. Everybody was suspicious, you know. And, his family was so mean [??] to me. They belonged to the belt, what do you call that belt? Q: The cotton belt? Oh, you know, the old…. His parents were very, he said they were very typical southern religious….. Q: Did they live here in Atlanta? Some of them did. Some of them lived in Alabama. So, his family and I didn't get along at all because they considered me Jewish. And they said, and not only a Jew, but one of multiple languages and multiple countries. What's that? I mean, that hit them the wrong way. So I had nothing to do with them. Q: What was his parents religious affiliation? Southern Methodist. Q: Southern Methodist? Yes. His father was a bus driver. Simple…. And you know, the whole, down to earth people, never traveled. And to me, I had nothing in common with them, and the only decent person I found was his mother. She treated me nicely. But his sisters and brothers, and he came from a large family, they just considered me a strange animal. So I never had anything to do with them. I had my own friends, which were, most of them were European. Q: Was there an influx of Europeans into Atlanta? Small. But it was, and I found them. But what I did, I decided that, that….I went to school too, I went to university. I went to Georgia State to learn English. My English was very limited, so I went to school. I signed up to finish, I wanted to finish my education. I went to school… Q: How far had you gotten in your education? One year. Q: One year of college, university, right. And I took languages again. Q: Did your credit hours from the University of Nevada transfer? Yeah, in those days it did. Today you couldn't do that, but then you could. Q: So you went into Georgia State, then, as a sophomore? Yeah. So I took English… Q: What was their English language teaching like in Georgia State… It was very nice. Q: Because that was a time when English as a second language was simply unknown. Was it just a part of the English department? Oh, yeah. It was English department, yeah. And I took English, I took logic, so I could understand English, and I also took drama because I wanted to be in a play. And then one day I decided, I went to the YMCA, and I talked to them about, have you ever thought about offering conversation classes to adults in French and Spanish? Never crossed their mind. And they said, “You know, that's not a bad idea. But why would we, we need a book.” I said, “I'll write the book.” And I did. I wrote a book, conversation Spanish and French. As a matter of fact I use that book now at Emery (?), it's been revised and redone. But we started the classes, and they were extremely successful. Adult education, non credit. And that's how that program for adult education got started in Atlanta Georgia, by me. No, not at Emery, at YMCA. No, at Emery it was much later, much later. Q: Now, are these conversation courses in French and Spanish, is this a part of the continuing (inaud)? Yeah, continuing education. But I am not teaching French now, I only teach Spanish. We have twelve classes now. Q: Twelve. I have three teachers working with me on my program, for me. Because I am the coordinator of the program. Very successful. I'm teaching tonight, as a matter of fact. Q: Now, you said John's family was Southern Methodist. Were they what you would call practicing Southern Methodists? Hmm,hmm. Q: Including John? No. No. John became a Presbyterian. Q: Presbyterian. Yeah. No. He was not practicing at all. John would go to church… he started going to church after our children were born. Then he started going to church. Q: Did you ever go with him? Yeah, lots of times. I was extremely board, and I thought the whole ritual was… how would you say, hypocritical. Q: In what way? Because, you know, to me, worshipping like that, in masses, was not worshipping. That was already, I had already some (inaud) ideas about religion, and to me that was no way of, of religion. It was organized and, it was organized religion. I didn't like anything that was organized. No, I didn't… Q: Do you think that attitude was a result of your early Catholic upbringing? I'm sure, and of the uprooting. Q: Yeah, of the uprooting. Right. So, again, I started the classes, and that gave me a little money and that was fine. John graduated from Georgia Tech and… Q: In architecture. In architecture. Q: What year did he graduate? He, in 1950. He and John Portman (?) graduated the same time. Q: And did you complete your studies then in Georgia State? Not completely. I went to University of Madrid to complete. That's when I had… it was that part I was finished, I had a degree. Q: What year did you go to Madrid to do that? Madrid I was, when was that? In 1960. No, no. '59,'60… I think it was '64, or '63. I don't remember. But before that, we need to back up a little bit, before that. I got very involved in the international, in the small international life of Atlanta. You know, I joined the, all the, we had an international club, which I became president. And later, of course, all these clubs were, they were separated by countries. You know, you had a country, (inaud), but it's too early. I got very involved in the aspect. Anything that was international, I was in it. So I became quite well known. So one day I went to the Chamber of Commerce, oh, let's back up, just a few minutes. Between that time, of course, I raised my family. Q: Tell me about the children. What children did you…? I had two. We had two girls. Q: What years were those? Marcelle was born… (inaud) was born in 1957, and…no… Valerie was born…she'll never forgive me! Valerie was born in '57 and Marcelle was born in '59, so we had two girls. Q: Do they live in the Atlanta area? Marcelle lives in Paris, and Valerie lives in Chicago. She has grandchildren, two children. Marcelle doesn't have any children, she doesn't have a husband either. Q: What does she do in Paris? She worked for United Airlines for ten years, and they just let her go. They closed the department, moved it to London. And she's still in Paris, and she's not going to come here. She doesn't like it here. Q: She's going to remain in Paris? She wants to, yeah. Q: So when your husband, what year did he graduate from Georgia Tech? '50. Q: 1950. And did he open his architecture business then? No, no. He got a job with a bank building and equipment corporation. They specialize in banks. And we moved to St. Louis. Q: To St. Louis. Hmm, hmm. We lived there for two years, it was awful. Hot in the summer, cold in the winter. One day we looked at each other…he had a very good job. And we said, “Listen, I don't want to make Atlanta….ah, St. Louis my home.” I didn't like it here, the German influence. And we said, “You know what? Let's go back to Atlanta.” And we packed everything in the car, bought a new car, drove back to Atlanta. And he started working for another company, another architecture firm, but then he got fired because there wasn't that much work, and they let him go. Q: What year would that have been? That was in fifty, I would say in '53, or '54. So then he said, “That's it. I'm going to start my own company.” And he started in the basement of our house. Where he is now (?). So, but, he started off with nothing, had no money, no connections, but you know he became a very well known architect, he had 18 employees. He's retired now. Cunningham and Associates is very well known, and he's done quite well. Q: And his specialty in architecture was…? Banks and jails. Q: Banks and jails. That's quite a… First the bank, then you go to jail! First, you rob the bank, then you go to jail! So, he did some other, but he did commercial. But, he started his business, he was doing great, and I was bored to death. I said, “I have to do something with my life besides teaching.” That wasn't enough. So I went to the, this is after the girls were born, they were getting a little older, you know, they were small but I, I had a live in help from Costa Rica that I brought in. So, before I went to the Chamber, I went to a, my husband and I went to an evening, to a reception for a, for the foreign minister of Costa Rica. And there I met the foreign minister of Costa Rica, Enam Garon (?) was his name. And during that time the Mexican government had asked me if I would be interested in becoming the honorary consul, because I spoke Spanish fluently, and French, and all the other languages, you know, and then after the Italian, I speak five languages. So they wanted to know, but I didn't accept, it was nothing certain. That was honorary, and honorary position. But I was very involved with the Alliance for Progress. So then this minister of foreign affairs, Enam Garon was his name, whose grandfather was French, he was very impressed with me and he said, ‘Would you accept the Costa Rican honorary position, instead of the Mexican? You haven't accepted yet, have you?” I said, “No.” He said, “Well, let me go back to Coast Rica and talk to the President.” And he did, and they named me Consul. Q: Now, when you are an honorary representative, what does that entail? Well, it depends on you, how much you want to do. And I did a lot. I was consul for twenty seven years. Q: Is it a voluntary? Voluntary. No pay at all, but honorary. But it has a lot of advantages. Q: Such as? Well, you meet a lot of interesting people, you go to a lot of interesting gatherings. You're just involved in the, it's a diplomatic world. And there is nothing more fascinating than being, being in the diplomatic world. I loved it. Q: So you had nothing to do with Visas or… I did, oh yes, I issued Visas. I certainly did. I issued Visas, I could do that. There was some things I couldn't do. I had power of attorney, too. I could sign documents. I could do all of that. Q: Did you do this from your home? Yes, I did it from the ex-office of my husband. And later on, so one day I decided that I wanted a sister city for San Jose. You know what a sister city is? Q: Yes. So I went to the chamber, the Atlanta Chamber of Commerce was really coming up. It was the Chamber of Commerce, the most well known in the United States, you know, there was the Ford (?) - Atlanta program. Were you here then? Q: No. No, you came after. So I went, and I met the director. And I said to him, “How about a sister city for Cos, for San Jose?” He looked at me, and he said, “What's that?” So I, he didn't know, I explained to him what it was. And while I was in his office he said, “We got this letter, it's in French. Can you tell me where it comes from?” I looked at the letter, I said, “Yeah. It comes from Switzerland.” And he said, “Ball, Basil.” But in French Basil is Ball. He had no, no idea. So I went home that night and I said, “You know, Chamber of Commerce does not have an international department. They don't even know where Switzerland is, or Costa Rica.” Well, I made him a proposal. I said, “I'll tell you, I will work three times a week, work from ten to three, and let's start an international department.” And this is how much money I want, which is very little. They hired me. I became director of the international department, and ran the department for ten years. Q: For the city. For the city. Q: And what did that involved? Well, I brought in the foreign consulates here, because my department, we attracted the Japanese consul, the German were already here, the French, the Swiss, tremendous amount of, the Korean. They came here. And then, what it involved, we started the first international flight. All that had a lot to do with my department. We entertained foreign visitors in my department. I would take them around to meet the VIP's of, I knew already who was who. Well, I became very popular. I was already very Consul of Costa Rica, you've got to remember that. But that was another position. But that did not present a conflict. And I ran the department, it was extremely successful, everybody knew me as “Ms. International” And I advised, Ivan Allen was Mayor then and (inaud) and I was the advisor. Q: And you were still working three days a week? No. The later on it became full-time. At the beginning it was, it was part-time. Q: Did that entail going abroad to visit some of these countries? Oh, yeah. We went to Japan, my husband and I. But we had to pay our own way. Q: The city wouldn't pay that? No. They would pay for the film for the camera. And we had a visit to Japan. There, I was greeted as an official guest. Then I went to Austria because at that time Vienna was a sister city to Atlanta. They knew what a sister city was. And I also went to Romania. Q: How long had it been since you had been back in Romania? That was the first time. Q: First time. How many years intervened there? 1968. Q: '68? '39 to '68. 29 years. What were your impressions? Well, let me tell you why I went back. I went back to take my ten year old daughter, to meet my family. Q: Your family was still there? Oh, yeah. It was communism, it was Charchesku. And I found, I learned that Nixon was going to be there, on an official visit. Of course, I spoke Romanian fluently. And I went to my boss and I said, look, Nixon is coming to Romania and I would like to go and I would like to represent Atlanta Magazine. We had magazine then. And my boss said, oh, that's great. But I need a press pass. Would you give me a press pass? He said I'll give you everything except money. I'll also give you the film for the camera. And I was a lousy photographer. Fine. So, I went to Romania with my daughter, my youngest. And anyway. Well, my little girl was, too, uh, she got sick the day before Nixon was supposed to land. And I was supposed to go to the American embassy and get my credentials. Of course, my family met us at the airport. Q: What family did you have there? My aunts, my three aunts. My mother's sisters. Q: How did they survive? They survived, with some of our money they were able to sell everything we left behind. Q: Did they stay in Romania? Oh, yeah. Except one. One went to Israel. Both my grandparents had died by then. Q: Were they hiding out during the war then? Yeah. Yeah, they escaped. They were Jewish, but they escaped. Q: Were any of them apprehended? No, not my aunts. Q: Do you know where they escaped to? Was it in the mountains? No, in Bucharest. Q: They stayed in Bucharest? They stayed in Bucharest, yeah. They escaped. Of course, they bought their way out, too, because don't forget, we led a very privileged life in Romania. My father made a lot of money. And we had gorgeous houses, servants. So when we left, we left everything – the furniture, the silver, the rugs, and we left them in the warehouse, but we told, my parents told my aunts, use it. Sell it if you have to. And they did, and they survived on that. That sustained them. Q: So, that was their salvation, really. That was part of it. They were lucky. Q: So what was it like? What were you impressions when you went back? It was awful. Awful. I went back to Romania and I spoke Romanian, of course. The first thing that happened when they saw my passport, that I was born in Romania. I made a big mistake to speak Romanian. Immediately I became suspicious, because it was communism and everybody was suspicious of everybody else. Q: This was, so what year was this? '68. That's when Nixon went. So, I stayed at the best hotel, the Sheraton, then. Not the Intercontinental. But I couldn't stay with my family. I was not allowed. My family had come and, to get me… Q: Were they in Bucharest? Yeah. Q: Were they allowed to come to the hotel to see you? Yes, they were allowed to come and I would take them to eat. They had never eaten so well. Q: Did you have reason to believe the Romanian communist authorities were spying? Oh, they were watching everybody. But they watched it even more after what happened to me. And what happened to me, thank god I got out of the country, was, my daughter got sick the night before Nixon was to arrive, and I didn't have time to go to the embassy to get the accreditation. So, after taking her to, I did go to the embassy for a doctor, because a Romanian doctor would not treat her. The communists would not treat Americans. They were afraid. Q: You wen there with your family? Yeah. So, I took her to my aunts house, my daughter, and left her there. And… Q: Did your girl speak Romanian at all? No. So, I went back to the hotel to change clothes. And that was already in the morning of when Nixon was arriving. I had no accreditation. I was so dejected and so frustrated. And everybody, the whole press was staying at my hotel. And this car came in front of my hotel, NBC, it had an NBC banner on it. And I went to it and I said, there was a man in the car, I'm not going to tell you his name. And I said to him, are you going to the airport to meet Nixon? And he said, yes. Take me with you. And he said, fine, come. Q: Without even knowing you. Without knowing me. And then we started talking, and in the car when he found out I spoke Romanian, he said, oh my god, god sent you to us. I said, why do you say that? He said, because our interpreter - he was driven by a chauffeur, by the way - he had a chauffeur, it was a limousine. Our interpreter's sick. We don't have an interpreter. Will you be the interpreter? I'll pay you five hundred dollars. I said, no, you don't have to pay me anything, I'll, what am I supposed to do? He said, you're supposed to go over there and get Nixon's, uh, Charchescu's speech, because we knew about Nixon, and translate it. And you'll be on the news, you'll be on the camera. And I said, well, you know, I'm not accredited. I didn't have time. Oh, no problem. So he typed my name on a card. He had a typewriter in the car, had a Polaroid camera, took my picture. Q: So he made you a press pass. He made me a press pass. But you know what kind of a press pass? White House press. And I was on television. And I came in as a tourist. Q: And you were translating for Charchescu? No. I was translating for NBC. Q: I mean, you were translating from Romanian to English? Yes. Q: Who was speaking the Romanian. Charchescu. Nixon spoke in English. So, anyway, I did great. And at the end of the thing, you know, this man was fascinated with me. He said, I want to pay you. He said, I'm going to pay you five hundred dollars. I said, no, I don't want the money. He said, I want to do something for you. You know, you were so nice and you did this for nothing. And then I looked at the car and chauffeur, and I said, well, you know, I can't afford to rent a car and I'm going to be here a few days. And it sure would be nice to take my family to the country. He said, fine. Great. He said, I don't need the car any more, and the driver, they're yours. That was a big mistake of my life. Q: How so? Because he took me to where my aunt was in the neighborhood. And then I saw my aunt who came running towards the car. I said, oh my god, my daughter must be sick. So I told the driver, stop. I walked to my aunt to tell her, look, we have a car. We have a driver. She said, send the car away. I said, no, you don't understand. No, send the car away right now. I said, is Marcelle sick? Is something wrong? Nothing is wrong, she's fine. Send the car away. And I did. And I said, why, what's wrong? And she said, do you know who the driver was in that car? I said, no, who was it? That's the secret police. I said, no, he was hired by NBC. Yes, he was hired by NBC. That's the secret police. She knew. You live in a communist country you know right away. She said, you're leaving the country, now. We're taking you to the airport. Called a taxi, went by the hotel, picked up the luggage, and left within an hour. Q: Within an hour… You know why? Because my badge. She said you came here as a tourist, and all of a sudden you were on television. Do you know what you are in this country? You're a spy. And, anyway, we left. But they were interrogated by the secret police after we left. Q: Was there any attempt, to your knowledge, to apprehend you, to prevent your leaving? Oh, sure. They went to the hotel looking for me. I was already at the airport. Q: Was your husband with you? No, no. Q: Just you and the two girls? One girl. So we left. Q: Was your husband back here in Atlanta? Um hmmm. Q: What did he think about your going to Romania? Oh, he, you know, he was so busy with his work, you know, he didn't interfere. But three months later I was sitting at the [something] in my office, minding my own business, when this man walked in. And his badge, FBI. No. CIA. CIA. And he said, Mrs. Cunningham, we know what happened in Romania. And I said, so? And he said, we want you to come to Washington. We'd like to talk to you about a possible job. So I went home and told John and he said, oh, you know, maybe you ought to do that for your country. Maybe you could do something for your country. So he said, go. Everything was paid. I went to Washington. And they wanted me to do some work for them. Q: Of what nature? That's right. To be a spy. They didn't call it that. They said, an observer. Q: An observer. They wanted to send me to a trade show. And they, I took the language test, which I passed. And then they gave me a security test. And that's where they interrogate you about your life. Q: Yes. You've read it? Q: No. Well, in a way, yes. So, anyway they interrogated me. And then they asked me this question. They said, if we send you there, would you be willing to, and we have vital information that you carry, would you be a good American and not divulge the information, and we know you have family there, and let your family be hurt? So when they said that, I got up and I said, go to hell. And walked out. Of course, I wasn't interested. I wasn't going to hurt my family. So I told them, you want me to be a spy, don't you? No, no. It would be an observer. We just want you to go and listen, to trade shows. Because I spoke the language you see. Anyway, so that was it. The end of that job. Q: That was the end of that. So, I went back to the chamber. And then later on my boss got fired, because he had a….. Q: At the chamber. Yeah, it was a political position and they had a new mayor, a new… Q: Who was the mayor then? Opie Shelton. Do you remember him? Q: No. Oh, he made history in this city. He was a great guy. Q: But he fired your boss, you boss went out because…. No, he didn't fire me. No, he loved me. He thought I was great. But the new boss, the new man that came in, who was a country boy, didn't like me so, he fired me. So then I said, well, I got to find me another job. And, I got me another job. I started a talk show in Spanish, for that station I was telling you about. And I did that for a year. And then I went into the travel business. Q: What sort of travel business? Oh, you know, start selling travel, which was, I'm not proud of that part of my life. Q: How long did you do that? Ten years. But I wasn't working full time. You know, I was still counsel of Costa Rica. That was a big thrust. You know, I went to Costa Rica. I did a lot of things for Costa Rica. We had exchanges. Then when Ias [?] was president we took a delegation from Georgia Tech. They were going to open a school there. But it fell through. And, all of this you're going to read in my book. And, one more thing. And I got very involved in the Olympics. Q: With the Olympics, you mean here, when it came to Atlanta? I was on the bidding team. 1996, because of my languages, again. Everything, I can tell you right now. Everything, all the doors opened, because of my languages. Everything I've done in my life, exciting, is because of the languages. So… Q: Do you think Atlanta of 1950, up until now, Atlanta was at that time quite a provincial city. Has it become more internationalized? Only from the aspect that we have more international people, and the airport. Nothing else. But Atlanta as a city, it's not international. Not by my standards. Q: How would you define an international city? Well, go to Paris and you'll have to define it. You smell it in the air. Or to New York. Go to Rome, go to London. Even to smaller cities. Atlanta just doesn't have it. No. And this is from an international person. You won't hear this from an Atlanta person. No. An Atlanta person will tell you, oh, we are an international city. They don't even know what it is. We still cannot change money everywhere in this city. We still don't have multilingual signs, you know. And the mentality is not international. You know what it is. You know what it is, and I'm not going to say it. Q: Is there any one particular experience that happened to you before you left Romania that stands out as a vivid memory? Just the school. Q: Just the school? Catholic school. I remember that clearly, because we had to wear black [something] Q: All girls? All girls. That stands vividly in my mind. We also had a very nice family life. My parents entertained a lot and there was a lot going on. Q: Have any of your relatives from Romania come to the States? No. My youngest aunt got married and went to Israel. And she, my uncle was a diamond setter, a diamond cutter. And they came here to Atlanta to visit us. Unfortunately, my aunt got sick. She had cancer and she had to go back. They went back to Israel. And she died. Of course, all the other ones died also. Q: What family do you have left in Romania today? Well, strangely enough, I discovered I have a cousin, twice removed. And he, his father was my mother's first cousin. And I discovered him through the Internet. It was very interesting. Q: How so? Well, what happened, I got a letter from a woman in Romania who lived with this cousin, who was my mother's first cousin. She found my address in his files. He died. And she wrote to me, and said to me, who she was, that this first cousin said that he had relatives in the United States. And that was it. And she just wanted me to know that he died. So I wrote her back and I said, well, did he have any children? And she wrote back and she said, yeah. He had two children. Where are they? Those are my cousins. And I started corresponding via e-mail with one cousin. And now they went back to Romania. They lived in Israel, but because of what's happening in Israel…. See, they escaped from communism. And, they wanted to, and they're back in, they just went back this year. Q: From Israel? How long had they lived in Israel? Twenty-five years. Q: What was the motivation for their returning to Romania? They felt like they had jumped out of the frying pan into the fire, by going there. Right. And my cousin, from what I understand, he's a financial marketing expert. So they're back in Romania and we e-mail. That's how I keep in touch. I want to go see them. I want to go, I'd like to go next year, to Romania. Q: But it's been about three years since you were last there? Oh, no. That was in 1968, I haven't been back since. Q: Oh, you haven't been back to Romania since '68. Wow, there'll be some changes. Oh, yeah. Well, you know, they're not communist any more. Q: Oh, yes. Yes. Is there any other facet of your fascinating life that you'd like to share? I'd like to share with you one thing. Q: Yes, please. From everything I've done, and everything I'm doing now, the most exciting thing I'm doing now is teaching. I love it. I'm shaping minds. I'm making a difference, and the program at Emery [?] is extremely successful. And I'm sixty-five years old. And I'm very proud of the fact that at my age I can do all of that. And I'm a docent at the Carlos Museum, and I'm very active with Koalis, downtown. I'm writing my memoirs. The teaching is really my calling. But I have all these quotes [?]. I saw Atlanta grow from a city of, when I came here in 1950, Atlanta was 600,000. And now it's four million, right? So you talk about a lot of changes. Yes. I tell you the truth, when I lived in Atlanta, during my time, downtown was beautiful. You could go downtown and the restaurants were plentiful. It was really, it had an international aspect, in a small way. Q: Did you have lunch sometimes at Richie's? Oh, yes. And also at Emil and at Ship Ahoy, Leb's, the Midnight Sun. All these places. This is where we entertain our international guests. Do you know Atlanta was extremely vibrant. Atlanta downtown now is dead. Now, you, as a historian, I'm sure that maybe you can't say it out loud, but it's dead. Maybe we will change. And you know why. I'm not going to say it on the record. I'll say when you turn off the camera. Q: Thank you……….. [end interview] - Metadata URL:
- http://album.atlantahistorycenter.com/cdm/ref/collection/VHPohr/id/149
- Additional Rights Information:
- This material is protected by copyright law. (Title 17, U.S. Code) Permission for use must be cleared through the Kenan Research Center at the Atlanta History Center. Licensing agreement may be required.
- Extent:
- 1:08:20
- Original Collection:
- Veterans History Project oral history recordings
Veterans History Project collection, MSS 1010, Kenan Research Center, Atlanta History Center - Holding Institution:
- Atlanta History Center
- Rights:
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