Emily Tillman interview with Frances Elyea; Philip Perkins; Alan Neely; Tom Branch; Hughes Roberts; Caroline Bethea; Lillian Deakins; and Spring Street School students (part three)

The John Burrison Georgia Folklore Archive recordings contains unedited versions of all interviews. Some material may contain descriptions of violence, offensive language, or negative stereotypes reflecting the culture or language of a particular period or place. There are instances of racist language and description, particularly in regards to African Americans. These items are presented as part of the historical record. This project is a repository for the stories, accounts, and memories of those who chose to share their experiences for educational purposes. The viewpoints expressed in this project do not necessarily represent the viewpoints of the Atlanta History Center or any of its officers, agents, employees, or volunteers. The Atlanta History Center makes no warranty as to the accuracy or completeness of any information contained in the interviews and expressly disclaims any liability therefore. If you believe you are the copyright holder of any of the content published in this collection and do not want it publicly available, please contact the Kenan Research Center at the Atlanta History Center at 404-814-4040 or reference@atlantahistorycenter.com. This is the third of a six part recording about Spring Street School in Atlanta, Georgia. In this recording, Tom Branch III recalls a hyperactive student in his fourth grade class. Next at minute 6:25, Tom Branchs son, a current student, recalls getting punished for talking and throwing crayons in class. He then describes outdoor school games, such as tackle football, kick ball, dodgeball, and baseball; and indoor games, such as a racing game, 7 Up, and Doggie Doggie Who Stole Your Bone. Then, at minute 18:40, he mentions that there were four Black students in his class, as well as one Chinese and one British student. He concludes the interview by describing ways the students teased each other. Francis Elyea (1912-1993) was born in Ellaville, Georgia, to Alonzo Arrington (1866-1959) and Bertha Burnam (1872-1940). She graduated from Valdosta State College and worked as a schoolteacher at Spring Street Elementary School in Atlanta. Later she resided in Roswell, where she served as president of the Roswell Historical Society and belonged to the North Fulton Child Development Association, Roswell Womans Club, and Daughters of the American Revolution. She married George Elyea (1903-1995) in 1956. Hughes Roberts (1919-2005) was born in Atlanta, Georgia, to John Hughes Roberts (1880-1946) and Lillian Mitchell Roberts (1895-1988). He attended Boys High School in Atlanta, then graduated from University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. He served as a Captain in the Air Force during World War II, and later worked for Ingersoll Rand. Lillian Roberts Deakins (1921-2019), Hughes Robertss sister, graduated from Agnes Scott College in 1943 and worked for Eastern Airlines. In 1945, she married her first husband, David Miller Deakins (1925-1989), with whom she had two daughters: Lillian Clarke (1949-2023) and Dorothy Chandler (1951- ). In 1997, she married her second husband, John Wyant (1915-2010). In 2012, she married Lloyd Timberlake (1917-2017). Caroline Yundt Bethea (1921-2012) was born in Atlanta to George Yundt (1876-1950) and Caroline Perdue (1887-1974). She graduated from Washington Seminary in Atlanta, and later attended Bradford Junior College in Haverhill, Massachusetts. She married Charles Bethea (1908-1974), and they had five children. Tom Branch graduated from Grady High School, and had one son, Tom Branch IV (1965- ). Philip Perkins, Alan Neely, and Tom Branch III (1936- ) resided in Atlanta. Additional biographical information has not been determined. 00;00;03;25 - 00;00;05;24 Speaker 1 Okay. That's very. 00;00;11;26 - 00;00;46;16 Speaker 2 Okay. I think another way that these things were, these stories and things were transmitted was, um, in our class, at least by the people who had failed in some cases three years because of hyperactivity. Uh, there was one boy in our class who had leprosy, who had epilepsy, and this is an extreme form of hyperactivity. And, um, he not only told us a lot of things that we wouldn't ordinarily have known at such a young age, but he also was a legend himself. 00;00;46;16 - 00;00;59;28 Speaker 2 Just the fact that he'd, um, you know, have fits in class and all this became very spectacular to us. But what otherwise tongue can you, um. 00;01;01;25 - 00;01;40;11 Speaker 3 We were talking about people coming back at school in the playground and strangely school I remember for some reason I guess it was because we were fairly close to the school itself was located fairly close to the neighborhood dividing line of the schools. Maybe for the, I don't know what other schools and certainly keep out of school. And some of the boys who were too small, for example, to play high school football and do the kinds of things high school students would do after school would apparently be more comfortable and happier coming back to Spring Street School, coming over there in the afternoons. 00;01;40;11 - 00;02;12;10 Speaker 3 And of course, they would do things like smoking and the language they use was a little saltier and all that and they knew more about girls and women and all kinds of things. You were talking about this hyperactive kids of a boy who was in my class, and I think I was in fourth grade, and he had always been something of a problem, primarily because he had I think he was very nearsighted, very thick glasses, which came so funny at 13. 00;02;13;07 - 00;02;42;23 Speaker 3 And his name had been Robert Shorty and his parents were divorced. But, uh, the teachers, because this boy was so hard to discipline to keep under control, he was, I suppose, high ranking at that time. They would call him shooting it. They would say, sit down, shoot. They get up, shooting, get out, shooting, being quiet, shoot. And finally, I think that he and his mother, because of this divorce, decided that his name would be changed, that it was a new father. 00;02;43;17 - 00;03;10;15 Speaker 3 And it may have been for reasons of totally unrelated any given. But in any event, he left school one day and came back the next day. And he apparently his mother brought him into office and explained to the principal he was in the state. His name had been changed and she wanted all the teachers and children. No one's name had been changed so that, colored by his new and proper name. 00;03;10;15 - 00;03;28;05 Speaker 3 So they left him in the office and he was done when he came out of class, explained that we should now call him by his new name, shoot him, which and not shoot any more. Because this was also embarrassing because it was during the Second World War. And shoot, he sounded so German and that was a bad way to sound. 00;03;28;21 - 00;03;46;14 Speaker 3 So the new name that we would call him was Robert Diesel Burg. His mother had married Mr. Diesel. So you can imagine the change in the teachers when they started calling him children, they started shouting at him as diesel, burg sedan and diesel. Very do that. And you're working through. 00;03;47;14 - 00;04;00;07 Speaker 2 The Reagan era talking about teachers, giving forth the commands and all that. And teachers themselves were probably a very tradition bearing in the school. 00;04;00;07 - 00;04;28;17 Speaker 3 Oh yeah. I think that probably the teacher was Frank St tended to stay there longer than teachers at some other schools. I'm sure every school has its teacher. He has been there forever and ever. But I never heard of a teacher who was at Spring Street leaving to go somewhere else and teach. You know, there were teachers who would leave Spring Street to the principals and other schools, but once they came to Spring Street, they seemed to stay there. 00;04;28;17 - 00;04;47;25 Speaker 2 And not only the teachers stayed, but the idea of the role of certain authoritarians. For instance, the principal, that first principal who introduced that bench and that bench is still there. Philip talks about how they changed it to a wrought iron bench, but the bench itself is still there. 00;04;47;26 - 00;05;10;00 Speaker 3 Well, I remember that little boy who is now in third grade, spent about half his time in first grade sitting on the bench, which I didn't know until the year about how much time and any of that he had problem with his teacher that you and it was very embarrassing for. 00;05;10;00 - 00;05;11;18 Speaker 1 Him I that the bench. 00;06;25;19 - 00;06;36;16 Speaker 2 Tommy did you ever have to sit on the bench out in the hall when you were and it sprung straight. Yeah. Lots of times. What did you do wrong that put you out there? Well. 00;06;37;26 - 00;07;11;16 Speaker 4 Well, I'm going to teach. You are stuck into us like me and my friend would be talking together. Just not even hearing the things you're saying. And I see. Well, when I sat on the bench is nothing I did. But, you know, the pain of school and, you know, just bounce up and down on the bench. One class is what? 00;07;11;16 - 00;07;38;26 Speaker 4 But to go to lunch, I just closed my eyes because their eyes go like this. It made me feel like crying yet. But one day I'm passed and, well, I just keep on doing the same thing I've been doing. And so then when they told me to finally come in there so many me that they wanted me to go back out. 00;07;38;26 - 00;07;49;01 Speaker 4 But what seemed like that that not anymore that I can tell about that I don't think. 00;07;50;19 - 00;08;05;05 Speaker 2 Sounds like the bench was out in the hall where you were publicly disgraced. Your friends made fun of you by rubbing their forth and urine through. That's how you were punished for was just talking. Did you ever throw things or. Well. 00;08;07;03 - 00;08;11;26 Speaker 4 Like when I talk down my work book when I wasn't supposed to maybe. 00;08;12;17 - 00;08;15;17 Speaker 1 Oh, you like, made me. 00;08;16;01 - 00;08;26;06 Speaker 4 Oh, yeah. When we did something bad and we had Shane for recess and we shot crammed up on ceiling, it made a mark for you. 00;08;26;06 - 00;08;29;06 Speaker 2 The only one that was punished like this. So did a lot. 00;08;29;06 - 00;08;38;07 Speaker 4 Of lines by people. I keep saying, don't let me see Chris. Like people. 00;08;38;28 - 00;08;41;03 Speaker 3 Say, Tom, what kind of games did. 00;08;41;03 - 00;08;45;29 Speaker 1 You play at the stage? Well, or physical education. 00;08;46;20 - 00;09;06;16 Speaker 4 At recess we played tackle the ball but whenever this big guy, you know, his name's Gregory and he came beating at me. I just threw the bottom curve and didn't like it, you know, moving into the other games, let me see. 00;09;06;16 - 00;09;15;02 Speaker 3 Kick ball and did you ever play three way dodge ball? Yes. And you play that? That's the game Rio is always talking about. 00;09;16;17 - 00;09;27;12 Speaker 4 Why is it some people get on the outside and three groups of people get on the outside and they have three balls and that's what makes it. I mean. 00;09;29;03 - 00;09;29;27 Speaker 3 What do they do. 00;09;31;01 - 00;09;44;07 Speaker 4 Gentlemen? And you see it swung just to two it Well, they don't have to go out see, they have to stay in until they get three times hit. 00;09;45;12 - 00;09;50;20 Speaker 2 And the the teachers teach you how to play this or did you just my teachers. 00;09;50;20 - 00;09;57;04 Speaker 4 Taught us that play this thing. And there's one more last one. They screw. 00;09;58;06 - 00;10;02;05 Speaker 2 You. How about on rainy days when you have to stay inside? 00;10;02;11 - 00;10;09;02 Speaker 4 Oh, well, we play a racing game. I didn't play. 00;10;09;08 - 00;10;10;05 Speaker 2 How you play that? 00;10;10;29 - 00;10;34;00 Speaker 4 You raise hell, son. Well, you know, get one of those big racers from Chatswood and then put two people would get directions from track, would be now and then put them on their head. And I was the only one that ever got to do this in second grade. 00;10;34;21 - 00;10;40;12 Speaker 1 Well, and they're as good guy. And. 00;10;41;08 - 00;10;58;11 Speaker 4 And Jimmy was the other guy in you see he tries to chase us and the race has to stay on the person said. And is the race of Phil off me for minded so he didn't get me. 00;10;58;24 - 00;11;01;08 Speaker 2 Did the teachers to teach you how to play this? 00;11;01;08 - 00;11;05;12 Speaker 4 Yeah, they taught us how to play every game except 7UP. 00;11;06;03 - 00;11;07;22 Speaker 2 How do you play seven up? Play? 00;11;08;16 - 00;11;15;29 Speaker 4 Well, seven people get up in the middle of the room and everyone puts their hand. 00;11;15;29 - 00;11;19;14 Speaker 1 On the desk and well. 00;11;20;00 - 00;11;59;13 Speaker 4 And the seven people go out and touch a person. And when they touch the person, you know, one person gets touched, they she dies, put up their hand because another person might touch them again. And when she says seven up, then everyone can take their head back up and when she says she got touched and when she says that we all stand up, whoever got touched by a person and they try and guess you touch them in, the. 00;11;59;24 - 00;12;01;16 Speaker 2 Kids make that game up. Yes. 00;12;02;00 - 00;12;08;03 Speaker 4 And there's another one, I assume, poor kidney. 00;12;08;22 - 00;12;09;05 Speaker 2 Work. 00;12;09;12 - 00;12;15;26 Speaker 4 And there's another one called Tommy Dorsey who stole your bone. 00;12;16;27 - 00;12;23;27 Speaker 2 And these are all games that the children. Yeah, and there's another one. Let me see. Or any of them rough? 00;12;25;00 - 00;12;28;02 Speaker 4 Oh, yes. Some are pretty brutal. 00;12;28;14 - 00;12;31;23 Speaker 2 But can you get in trouble for playing any of these games. 00;12;33;12 - 00;13;02;10 Speaker 4 When you're not supposed to, you mean? Uh huh, yeah. Well, if. Yeah, well, yeah, sometimes. What if you ask if you can first you can play it, but not in the classroom if you're finished with your work. No, but not in the classroom. You'd have to play it in the music room or someplace like that. If they weren't playing, teaching, if they were teaching, it had played in the. 00;13;02;10 - 00;13;08;04 Speaker 2 Cloakroom as as Did your class make these games up or were you taught these games back? Other quiet? 00;13;08;11 - 00;13;14;04 Speaker 4 Some of them were made up and most of them the teacher told us. 00;13;15;01 - 00;13;34;28 Speaker 2 Can you think of one that the teacher didn't invent but that you got from another class that's been climbing a lot from. No, just the children. Maybe the teacher didn't even like it much. Oh, let me see. Would that have been seven up? Would seven up have been a game? That was. 00;13;35;00 - 00;13;35;09 Speaker 3 Right. 00;13;35;23 - 00;13;36;26 Speaker 4 And bottom line. 00;13;39;20 - 00;13;42;05 Speaker 2 Tackle to me now we. 00;13;42;16 - 00;14;03;07 Speaker 4 Just got a group of big group of people and you know, whoever just brought them up school to play with you know, to study the art of running and stuff. Sometimes we even had to imaginary the ball. And that one really fun because I couldn't tell whoever. 00;14;03;07 - 00;14;06;23 Speaker 2 Had the ball. You just pretend like you throw it and pretend like. 00;14;06;24 - 00;14;13;04 Speaker 4 Yeah, you know, And I had the ball. I'm so scared. I just throw it up in here. 00;14;13;17 - 00;14;15;26 Speaker 2 Sometimes and let somebody else get it. 00;14;15;26 - 00;14;47;23 Speaker 4 But sometimes I just you know, get away from the person like you're supposed to do. And another rainy day game. There is one. But I never know how he guesses what what the thing is. It's called black magic. You see, a person goes out of the room and usually someone didn't believe it. So they go out to make sure they didn't hear. 00;14;47;23 - 00;15;14;20 Speaker 4 Don't hear what they say to pick. So one person comes in the room and says he didn't hear saying anything. Do that. Well, he tries to guess what the saying is that they pointed to and well, I well, David was the only one who got to play this game because. 00;15;16;05 - 00;15;20;23 Speaker 1 Well, uh, well. 00;15;21;12 - 00;15;31;09 Speaker 4 He was the only person, you know, who was ever really any good put good person or whatever. You know, is the best person. 00;15;31;12 - 00;15;39;25 Speaker 2 Who was the teacher, decide who was good enough to play the game, who's good enough to go out of the room while the other two. 00;15;40;14 - 00;15;48;06 Speaker 4 Yeah. Last year and, and that was the best little girl. And another one. 00;15;48;06 - 00;15;56;16 Speaker 2 Uh, I see. So this was the way that the teachers rewarded children who were good. They don't let them know. 00;15;56;16 - 00;16;09;05 Speaker 4 That they've got picked them to be good, so they don't even know it. But they still just they can, even though they don't even. 00;16;09;26 - 00;16;25;15 Speaker 2 Turn and say, Do you have any funny stories about the teachers? Well, when they punish you, do you just accept it that that you deserve to be punished? Sure. Do you make up funny things about teachers? 00;16;25;15 - 00;16;25;29 Speaker 4 Well. 00;16;27;11 - 00;16;36;12 Speaker 2 See, maybe you're not old enough yet About what? To make up funny stories about. Oh. 00;16;37;22 - 00;17;04;16 Speaker 4 Let me see. What is it? Oh, yeah, Billy Joe. Well, when you see one after recess, when treating time and she had read this a story like now she's reading this Chitty Bang Bang. Oh, and, well, uh oh. Billy Joel once got in trouble for, you know, pulling up little things in rug. 00;17;05;05 - 00;17;06;07 Speaker 2 What little things? And. 00;17;06;19 - 00;17;20;03 Speaker 4 Well, we have this friend round in the reading circle, and whoever really sits on foot just goes away picking it out, you know, And. 00;17;20;03 - 00;17;20;15 Speaker 2 Well. 00;17;21;27 - 00;17;23;29 Speaker 4 Well, once she picked that. 00;17;24;07 - 00;17;29;20 Speaker 1 There's this big round hole and, and the. 00;17;29;29 - 00;18;01;13 Speaker 4 The shop said I picking for Mary Jo and he said well the teacher said why are you picking fruit first. I said I'm trying to get China. And and she said, that's not funny. And tell me why that by that time he she was really sad. And so he just said, Can you. 00;18;06;22 - 00;18;08;20 Speaker 2 You say, I don't want to sit on the bench. 00;18;10;22 - 00;18;14;02 Speaker 1 Or something like that. He said, if I don't get to John, I. 00;18;14;02 - 00;18;16;23 Speaker 4 Won't get to see my great, great, great cousin. 00;18;16;23 - 00;18;20;23 Speaker 1 In law. And that's all. 00;18;20;23 - 00;18;37;00 Speaker 3 That time till he was telling them that some of the children in your room, you have some children in there with Chinese, don't you? And so when you tell her about some of the different places some children come from, what their names are. 00;18;37;09 - 00;18;58;06 Speaker 4 Well, there's one come Shin and he comes from and she, uh, I think it's a china or somewhere like that. Tokyo somewhere. And, well, he acts like one and there's another one. 00;18;58;20 - 00;19;07;07 Speaker 1 Uh, let me see. Which. 00;19;08;22 - 00;19;09;07 Speaker 4 Oh, yeah. 00;19;10;07 - 00;19;20;24 Speaker 1 Blouse and coat comes from. Um. Well, no, um. 00;19;21;06 - 00;19;23;08 Speaker 2 Going somewhere around. 00;19;23;08 - 00;19;25;00 Speaker 4 The British somewhere. 00;19;25;02 - 00;19;27;00 Speaker 3 And was happily. Yeah. 00;19;27;29 - 00;19;34;15 Speaker 4 But he's not in my class. She's in reading class. You know, when we switch classes. 00;19;35;14 - 00;19;43;00 Speaker 2 And come Negro kids, do you have long. 00;19;43;08 - 00;19;51;20 Speaker 1 Here for? Um, um, and, uh, well, I don't know that then, because. 00;19;51;29 - 00;20;12;12 Speaker 4 In my reading group, except one named Andre, your Andre Andre, you tend to be nasty name. And I don't know if he can say that. And there's another one my Lisa. 00;20;13;09 - 00;20;21;00 Speaker 2 He she comes from Italy. 00;20;21;20 - 00;20;27;10 Speaker 4 You know, somewhere in there, I think. Yeah. 00;20;27;10 - 00;20;32;11 Speaker 2 Um, do you play with the girls as well as the boys? Well. 00;20;32;29 - 00;21;07;24 Speaker 4 We. Well, no, we can't, because I'm racist. Well, the girls have a decent recess here, and then the boys and girls. Guys, come on in, boys. You know, But we never go up there. And I think it's the main reason because the boys play on his water, sand, you know, and. And. Well, I guess it's because I get hot. 00;21;07;24 - 00;21;13;06 Speaker 2 But you generally got everything you need down on the lower level. You don't need the girls. Do you ever tease them? 00;21;13;28 - 00;21;25;16 Speaker 4 Oh, yeah. Like, well, I don't really hardly. But there's this girl that, uh. Oh, she. 00;21;25;16 - 00;21;26;06 Speaker 2 What's your name? 00;21;26;06 - 00;21;28;23 Speaker 1 Aaron. Yeah. Loves my school. 00;21;30;07 - 00;21;33;22 Speaker 2 And I'm the third grade pick. 00;21;33;28 - 00;21;52;15 Speaker 4 And my uncle lies by some of the bushes and swings and a seesaw. And that's one. So sounds like. Like a love letter. Yeah. They really love each other, I guess. 00;21;53;07 - 00;22;01;04 Speaker 2 Do you ever play tricks on people? Not just girls, but on anybody? Say, a a new kid in the school? They ever tease them? 00;22;02;25 - 00;22;26;08 Speaker 4 Well, uh, sometimes you get up this big group, boys, and we say when we play hide and seek, and we all hide together in this flat in these bushes and. And, well, no one would ever find us there. 00;22;26;08 - 00;22;35;02 Speaker 2 And then he looks and let him see. 00;22;35;02 - 00;22;46;16 Speaker 4 I think that's the only tricks we do on new boys. Well, we don't really get anymore new boys. 00;22;46;16 - 00;22;48;11 Speaker 2 Anything else in. And so I second. 00;22;50;06 - 00;22;53;16 Speaker 1 They say, well. 00;22;54;11 - 00;23;00;08 Speaker 2 You can turn out. 00;23;00;08 - 00;23;58;06 Speaker 1 I guess that's all. 00;23;58;06 - 00;24;05;22 Speaker 2 Tommy, you had something to add about the playground. He Well. 00;24;05;22 - 00;24;29;03 Speaker 4 The yard teaches well, like, well, once they were making a sandbox or something, they really didn't use dirt. They Well, once when we were playing on playground and their came this dump truck and it had lots of is filled with. 00;24;29;03 - 00;24;33;26 Speaker 1 Dirt and well kept on going. 00;24;34;16 - 00;25;02;11 Speaker 4 Right until the seashores and then it dumped all the dirt And then we played King of the Hill and then we got bored of that. So we played Army Man and he threw my balls and stuff and just about all the mud was gone pretty soon. And so, Oh, why me? You know, gang of boys? Well, we had to go to the yard to, um. 00;25;02;22 - 00;25;20;29 Speaker 4 I think she talked to the first boy. He said, Why do you do that? He said, I'm not gonna listen to a word you say. Yeah. And then she get real mad, and then she sent him to Dr. Sealy. 00;25;21;22 - 00;25;23;10 Speaker 2 It was a new. Yeah. 00;25;24;16 - 00;25;33;00 Speaker 4 And then she talked to him, you know, and then she, he would just about staying there the whole rest of the day. 00;25;33;03 - 00;25;34;07 Speaker 2 On the barking. 00;25;34;07 - 00;25;49;04 Speaker 4 No. In that village. And then when they got to talking he'd have to stand the bench in there the whole day because he did, he could do nothing except sit. 00;25;49;21 - 00;25;51;15 Speaker 2 Just for bad taste. 00;25;52;09 - 00;25;52;23 Speaker 4 Yes. 00;25;54;24 - 00;26;05;29 Speaker 4 And, well, that's just about all that every anyone ever did. So I guess that's. 00;26;05;29 - 00;26;07;08 Speaker 1 All I have to say. No transcript exists for this recording. Professor John Burrison founded the Atlanta Folklore Archive Project in 1967 at Georgia State University. He trained undergraduates and graduate students enrolled in his folklore curriculum to conduct oral history interviews. Students interviewed men, women, and children of various demographics in Georgia and across the southeast on crafts, storytelling, music, religion, rural life, and traditions. As archivists, we acknowledge our role as stewards of information, which places us in a position to choose how individuals and organizations are represented and described in our archives. We are not neutral, and bias is reflected in our descriptions, which may not convey the racist or offensive aspects of collection materials accurately. Archivists make mistakes and might use poor judgment. We often re-use language used by the former owners and creators, which provides context but also includes bias and prejudices of the time it was created. Additionally, our work to use reparative language where Library of Congress subject terms are inaccurate and obsolete is ongoing. Kenan Research Center welcomes feedback and questions regarding our archival descriptions. 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