Mary Anne Summers interviewed by Bob Short
2008 November 5
Decatur, GA
Reflections on Georgia Politics
ROGP-056
Original: video, 97 minutes

sponsored by:
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
University of Georgia Libraries
and
Young Harris College

Date of Transcription: June 28, 2009

BOB SHORT: Im Bob Short, and this is Reflections on Georgia Politics sponsored by the Richard Russell Library at the University of Georgia. Were very fortunate today to have as our gift a legend in Georgia Politics, Mary Anne Summers. Welcome, Mary Anne.

MARY ANNE SUMMERS: Thank you.

SHORT: Well, lets start in the very beginning.

SUMMERS: Okay. I was born and raised in the city limits of Atlanta. When I was at the State Capitol, they said I was the only one there that was. Everybody else was from somewhere else. I had a great childhood growing up. I was fairly intelligent as far as making grades and got a couple of scholarships. But I graduated very young. My daddy wanted me to stay home a little while, so Id be older and could take better care of myself. So I stayed home. I sure did. Fell in love with a young man and I really fell in love with him, and I wanted to be very close to him, very close. I knew if I got that close, if God didnt get me, my grandmother would. So I married him. Broke my daddys heart. I was 17 years old, but that sort of put the quietus on my education. Everything else I just learned from living.
Lets see. What happened then? I was working for Retail Credit Company, which was the only job a nice girl could get in those days and be respectable. That or Richs. That was the only job application I ever filled out. From there [indiscernible] hook or crook, somebody I knew would call and offer me a job. I went to Delta Airlines. Mr. Woolmans daughter lived out at Misty Lake where I lived, and she said her daddy needed somebody to help while his secretary was on vacation. I said, Sure, Ill do it. So I worked for Mr. Woolman. I mean to tell you, if Delta couldnt land in Jackson, Mississippi and there were passengers that would go in there, hed write them a letter. Or if they got out of the plane and it was raining, he was there with an umbrella and he would come around, and I was pregnant, and hed give us salt tablets. It was in the summertime, because the only air-conditioning we had was fans. We made a quick and they have computers now. We made quick reference books. They were long, skinny. On the front page wed put the city and where you were going and all the flights that got there and all the connections. At the bottom wed put the other airlines in small print. We were full service. If you wanted to come back, youd turn the page over.
Mr. Woolman offered me a oh, and while I was there, we did the first millionaire vacation packages, and I helped with that. But anyway, Mr. Woolman offered me a job, a full-time job, and I said, Oh, no, Mr. Woolman. Im not going to be working when this baby comes. Im going to stay home and take care of him. Well, that baby is now 56 years old this year, and this is the first Ive stayed home, and its not time for me to take care of him.
But after that where did I go after that? My goodness. Oh, I went to the Ordinarys Office. The chief clerk was a patient of my daddys, and he called and he said, If you arent doing anything, I need somebody. I was their roving clerk. I issued marriage licenses. I issued gun licenses. I issued liquor licenses. I sent people to Milledgeville. You know, it followed, you got a gun license and a liquor license, then you had to go Milledgeville or go to jail. That was a great time.
But then another neighbor had been doing some work for the womens programs at Southeastern Fair, and she said the general manager needs an assistant, was I interested. She said, Youd have to work seven days a week most times, but the moneys good, youd have $30 a month more than I was making. It was better. So I went out there, and it was fun. When they brought the gold down from Dahlonega to put on the Capital Dome, the mule train spent the night at the fairgrounds. All sorts of things. One exhibit building, 35,000 feet, didnt show up, and the fair was going to start two days later. So I kept calling people and wound up talking out to an admiral out in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean. Got permission, and he sent all these exhibits, and here they came from Lockheed and everywhere. As I was going home at five oclock that morning, I had to get out of the way, because theres this caravan of wonderful exhibits. Wonderful exhibits.
Lakewood Speedway was out there, a dirt track. Its really well-known in racing circles. I didnt know anything about racing. But I learned because I had to stay there and collect the money from the promoters for renting the track. They dont say it in the formal history of NASCAR, but at that track NASCAR was born. All our stock was owned by the Trust Company. The land is non-profit stock. The land was owned by the City of Atlanta. All these FHA and FFA, 4-H Club, they all that was a culmination of them. So I got to know people from all over the state. The dean of the College of Agriculture was on our board. Bill Campbell was on our board, and just lots of people and it just sort of I think today they call it networking. Back then wed just talk meeting and friends and doing for friends. We had a mayors dinner every year and a governors dinner, and got to meet all those people.
I never will forget one time that somebody who was exhibiting pigs or hogs didnt like said where they were was too damp. I never will forget when I opened that letter, across the top of it were the rear-ends of 13 hogs. That was the way they judged them, so that was what they cared about.
Now, where did I oh, I quit the fairgrounds to have my next son, whos 48. Thats how long ago it was. Mr. Pathy said I had done so much he paid me for five months after I left. [Indiscernible] wanted to have an exhibit there. They were so proud of it. I went down to see it. I said, Its awful. So they drove back and forth, and we finally got a good one. Carlin Dinkler was paying for that project. Oh, and another thing, we had Crackertown Square, and we tried to put on a show every night, a free show. So me, not knowing you couldnt do it, I called and asked to borrow the Marine Corps Drum and Bugle Corps from Washington, because we were going to have the Marine Corps Band in the parade. They lent them to me, and they came, and we had this precision drill team throwing guns, and the band.
That reminds me of something else. We had a fair parade the night before the fair every year. There were big balloons and this, that and the other. It was always a success. Well, a girl named Jean Hendricks from WSB called me, and she said "Its some anniversary of WSB TV, and we want to participate in the parade. And I said, Well, thats fine. So they participated and shared it for a long time. That was where the Fourth of July Parade in Atlanta came from. That was the start of it. We quit ours, and they moved to the Fourth of July, and thats a big deal now.

SHORT: Tell me how you got involved in politics.

SUMMERS: Oh, Im getting there. Im getting there. But all this is important, because people that I met in these different things were people that like when I was secretary to the members of the Senate, I knew where every county was, and the senators thought, Oh, shes smart. I wasnt smart. I was just from the fairgrounds. But I had Robert, and I was down at the Capitol trying to get something. My husband was going to Tech. He [indiscernible] those days, but he was going to Tech. He waited till after he got out of the Navy. I needed something Xeroxed. Well, I ran in. I knew Richard Ashford was there, and I ran in to use his Xerox machine. Id gotten to know me when he come he was then a reporter for the Atlanta papers, and he covered the courthouse when I was there. So I thought, Xerox machine. I went in and Richard said, Oh, yes, you can use my Xerox machine, but its going to cost you. I need you to help me for three days. I said, For what? He says, You know how Im loaded up with speeches and press releases? I just need help. So I said Id help him. This was Governor Vandivers office. I wound up staying through the Vandiver administration.
And then Henry Neal, who was the Attorney General in the Governors Office, recommended that Governor Sanders hire me. So Doug Bernard hired me, and I never lost a day. That was fun, because thats when I met Bob Short. Now, Bob Short, his chore was to go out to Ms. Sanders' house and write a press release about her dress and what she was going to wear. The dress was beautiful, but she had three ostrich feathers in her headband. You remember that?

SHORT: I remember that. She did, too. We talked with Ms. Sanders. She remembered that.

SUMMERS: Oh, well, maybe I better not that say the rest.

SHORT: Yes, you must. You must say it.

SUMMERS: Well, Bob, I dont know how many press releases he wrote for her, but he said, I cant please her with those damn ostrich feathers. So he told me to do it. Hed go through all his staff and everybody. I was the last resort. Well, I shoveled all the you-know-what that she wanted to shovel, and she accepted it. She was pleased with it. That was sort of my kickoff in Governor Sanders office. I eventually became his correspondence I opened all the letters that came to the Governor, decided whether it should go to a typist or an aide for reply, or go to the Revenue Department or wherever. That was a good job. I liked it.
Except that was the year of the Democratic Convention. Ive forgotten who all was in it. But the Governor was taking two planeloads of Georgians, and he wanted all the publicity he could get. So this was when the airport was like the big "Quonset hut". So he wanted a donkey out at the airport to see everybody off. Guess who had to get the donkey. So my husband and children and all, we got one. It was a jack and his name was LBJ, and he had a straw hat. Well, jack, the back of him is this tall. You cant believe that donkey did not want to get on that trailer. It wasnt a horse trailer. It was get his legs up and push him up. So we got to the airport, pulled up right at the front door. Got him off. Started through the airport with him. George Bagby, whose legs were this long, wanted to get on him. So he got up on the back of him and here weve hauled the donkey through the airport, and I was so glad he did not take a rest. But we got to the plane, a lot of fanfare and all. They all took off, and there I was stuck with that damn donkey. Had to get him back home. But that was a success, and it was fun.
That was the year that John F. Kennedy was assassinated. When he was assassinated, we got were you still there? We got those reports that somebody was going to try to shoot the Governor. So we just told everybody to go home. I was standing there when the thing came over. Ive forgotten what you call it. It burned the message that said Kennedys dead, LBJ is now the President, everybody should the National Guard and all should give faith to them I mean, their loyalty to them. So that was exciting for me. Also, Id forgotten this, somewhere Ive got a rough draft with Governor Vandivers notes in it about when he decided to keep the schools open. We went out to the mansion and took that draft and he made some corrections. That was an exciting time in history for me.
Oh, and another story about Governor Vandiver when I first went into his office to go to work. Now, I dont take shorthand, and I only type, hunt and peck. But I had to take notes on a commissioned building. So I got it all ready and I took it in. I was standing by the pullout thing on his desk and I handed it to him, and I was just, I hope this is all right. He read it and he looked at me, and he said, My dear, why did you put so-and-so in there? I said, Well, Governor, I assumed. He put his hand on mine and looked over his glasses, and he said, My dear, we dont assume anything. To assume something only makes an ass of you and me. Ive never used that word since unless I was telling that story.
But anyway, there was all sorts of exciting things, and we always met everything that came along. It came Christmas 63. Henry Neal, who was just so smart and such a horses rear when he wanted to be, he liked me and I came to love him. But he was real nothing gets in the way of his business. So I talked him into letting his secretary, Anne somebody, go home for Christmas.

SHORT: Anne Garrett.

SUMMERS: Anne Garrett go home for Christmas. He said, She can go if you promise youll do any work I have to do. I said, Ill be glad to. Well, of course, on Christmas Eve, after we had our Christmas party, he had an extradition that must be done that minute. So I did it. Didnt get out of work til 5:00 or 5:30. My husband and the two boys were waiting on me. We went uptown to Richs and rode the Pink Pig. That was when it was from the sky and I was pregnant. Got our Christmas together, went home. The next morning had Santa Claus, and at noon I had Donna. She was almost two months early. So that my career in the Governors Office was ended at that.
The man from the that had been at the fair called me in a couple of months and wanted me to help do a "Dont Lug it, Let it Ride" show at agriculture, things feeding and all. Feeding animals. So I did, over in Athens. Whatd I do after that? Oh, in my spare time, I would always work, not as a secretary of, but as a secretary to the members of the State Senate. When they were in session, my desk was in the Senate floor in the back and they brought one or two girls from the Revenue Department, and we did all the work those senators needed. They now have, I think, 39 secretaries. But it was fun.
Oh, there were a lot of things. We learned all about politics there, including Roscoe Dean, who thought I was his personal secretary. Hed come up, and hed always Roscoe was right heavy, but he always bought pants that were way too large and a belt this much too long. And hed have his cigar in his mouth, and he come up, he says, Ive got to have this done. Id say, Yes, Senator. Hed say, Im working so hard. And hed pull that belt and gather his britches, Look how much weight Ive lost. Roscoe wanted to write everybody in his district, so wed write them. The stamps were on rolls, and Roscoe would get them first one place and then the other. The only time I was ever in a political cartoon, it was a drawing of me with my hand like this, licking, just lots and lots of rolls of stamps with them just all over the place. But Roscoe was all right. He did take a walk several times so he didnt have to vote on something, because his grandmother that raised him had died, and she died lots. There was another story about Roscoe that was better than anything Ive told you.

SHORT: It wasnt the Rowan speech, was it?

SUMMERS: Yes. Has anybody told you about that?

SHORT: No. Tell us about the Rowan speech.

SUMMERS: Okay. Roscoe sat between Bobby Rowan and Frank Eldridge. He deviled them before they got back at him. Hed say, Ive got have a speech. Ive got to have a speech. So theyd say, Well, now. Ive got to have a speech. So this went on so much that they finally said, Okay. Well write you one. So they wrote him a speech. He said, Youve got to hurry. Ive got to go to the well of the Senate tomorrow. It must have been that thick. It started off and he read it. He opened it, and it said, Pause for applause, and there was not another word in that whole thing of paper. I mean, he just [blubbering sound].
And another thing you might have to edit this out. Another thing about Roscoe. After I went to work for the Senate full-time, there was sort of a half floor that was right above the mens restroom. Well, on that half floor I had an office with conference tables and all that. Sometimes the senators, when they were plotting things, would want to use my office. So this particular day Joe Kennedy, and I dont know how many, said, Mary Anne, we need your office. Well, I had locked it. I said, Okay. So I go running up the steps. I could run then. Joe Kennedy is right behind me. Joe Kennedy was tall and big. I opened the door and its there coming up, and I slammed it back. Well, just like dominoes or something, Joe Kennedy hit me, and the next one, the next one, they all tumbled down. Whatd you do that for? I said, You dont want to see that. Yes, I do, and he threw the door open. And Dr. Somebody from down in around there, Jessup or somebody, that was in the house was giving Roscoe a shot of penicillin. He was leaning over the conference table with his drawers dropped down around his ankles. If you think that wasnt a sight. But Roscoe was all right. He really wanted to serve his constituency, and he did.
Oh, lets see. Oh, Oliver Bateman. Oliver Bateman was one of my senators, and he was from Macon.

SHORT: A Republican senator.

SUMMERS: Oh, yeah. We didnt have but two Republican senators then. So on my desk Id turn their work over here when the Democrats came up to it. When they came up, Id turn their work over. Because I didnt trade stories back and forth. I was working so hard, and they were voting on something. After it was over, Senator Bateman came up and he said, Mary Anne, Im so sorry I couldnt vote for your bill. I said, What are you talking about? He said, You know, the bill on the commission on the status of women. He said, I couldnt vote for it. I looked at him and I said, Senator, when I have to depend on a piece of legislation to get what I want out of a man, dont vote on it. Bury me.
What other thing? Kyle Yancey, I used to sit down by his Senate desk in his garbage can and take his notes. That went well until one day somebody pushed through and I fell over. I said, I cant do that anymore. Oh, and they had established the Tourism Committee. This was about the time that Stone Mountain was getting geared up to do things, and everybody wanted money for their district from the state. I know that was about the time that they numbered the exits so you could give people directions how to get somewhere. That was a big deal. Stone Mountain wanted money. So we went out to visit Stone Mountain and they were good to me. They didnt have to take any notes. I took them all. So we went out and we visited Stone Mountain. It was Ford Spinks, Hal Minish, me, Ive forgotten who else. Guess where we went. We went up on the carving. There was an elevator from the base of the carving straight up, and then there was some sort of walk that like had bomber flooring in it with holes in it. You go into the mountain and you come back out over the scaffolding. So there I was in a blue silk dress and high heels, the wind blowing. And Dr. Minish is holding onto the rail with a cigar in his mouth, and he says, This is a hell of a place to find out youve got acrophobia or whatever it is. But it was fun. My grandchildren, I think, took pictures of that, that I had how many people can say their grandmothers been up on the face of the carving at Stone Mountain with a dress on?
Also, the Tourism Committee took me to Savannah, and they wanted some help in starting to redo Savannah. I never will forget, there was this one wonderful house, and the people said it was for sale for $1,900. I told them, I said, Somebody buy it. This is going to be big. Nobody bought it. But that house is worth about $2 million now over the years. Nobody ever took my advice.
Lets see, then what happened? Oh, I left out Charles Weltner. Charles Weltner, Charles Longstreet Weltner. Oh, he was a great guy. When he died, he was Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of Georgia. But I can remember when he had his midlife crisis and came riding down Peachtree Street on a motorbike with a helmet and his briefcase in his hand. But Charles called me right after somebody was born. I guess right after Donna was born. She was born Christmas Day of '63. Charles was going to run for Congress, and he wanted me to come be the hired help in his campaign. Now, not the big, official campaign manager, but run his campaign for him. I told him, I said, I dont know a thing about campaigning. And he said, My God, five years as a carny and three years for two governors ought to qualify you for something. So thats how I got involved with Charles Weltner and that was great. We worked really hard. I didnt know I knew how to make so many signs and things like that.
That was a time 64 was a time of a lot of movement in the Civil Rights thing, and we had some very good supporters that were very active in that. We had some very good supporters that were not active at all, didnt approve of it. But met a lot of interesting people. Thats when I first met Andrew Young. Anyway, the Civil Rights Bill comes up, it was either September or October of that year, and its getting time to vote on it. Well, Charles it had to be October, because it was before November elections. So Charles came home one weekend.

[phone ringing]

SUMMERS: Robert, get that, please. Oh, Im so sorry.

SHORT: Thats all right.

SUMMERS: Here, Robert, you can have this phone. I meant to cut this off. Would you hand it to him, please? Make sure it doesnt ring again, please, honey. We had this meeting of the campaign staff and his advisors and his AA from Washington, Sal Craig, who later on . . .

SHORT: Sally Craig?

SUMMERS: Yes. We called her Sal. But handled all the prisoners from Cuba.

SHORT: Yeah.

SUMMERS: She became director of some part of the whatever they called it then. We were all sitting around the room, the back warehouse room. All the blinds were closed, because you did not campaign on Sunday back then. Charles told us about this vote was coming up and he said, I want to know what yall think about it. Well, he started around the room, and he wasnt getting a whole lot of help. Jerry Horton said Jerry was his AA then, administrative assistant. Jerry said, Itll be your death knell. And they got around, and I saw Charles was not real happy. He got to me, and I said, Well, Charles, I dont know what I can do. But if youve got the guts to vote for it, Ive got the guts to work for you. So he went back to Washington and the day before the vote, I called to ask about something. I asked Jerry, I said, Where is Charles? Jerry says, I dont know. I guess hes in the Garden of Gethsemane praying about this. Charles voted for it. We were all very proud of him. Of course, his vote didnt really count. Because it was down to the Ws when he voted, and by then it had passed. But he was proud of it. He was very proud of it.
I dont know where Jerry went after that. I dont remember. But all of a sudden Charles was without an administrative assistant. So he [indiscernible], I dont know what were going to do. Because the election was coming up, and if he was going to stay in Congress, hed know in two or three months. He couldnt ask somebody just to stop what youre doing and come be my AA for a couple of months. So he said, Well, weve got to find somebody. Larry Lloyds uncle or something, a retired military man, said he knew somebody. So we talked to him and Charles said, Were going to hire him. He said, But I dont know if he knows where the front door is in Washington. He said, You and Sal Craig have got to educate him quick. Well, we did, bless his heart. His name was Wyche Fowler and he stayed with Charles.
Then Charles I dont remember exactly when it was. It had to be the next election. I dont know. Anyway, but it wasnt right at election. Anyway, the state Democratic Committee came out with a loyalty oath you had to sign, and you had to agree to support all the members on the ticket, and Lester Maddox was on the ticket. And Charles said, Im not supporting Lester Maddox. So we talked to him, and he said, I cannot support Lester Maddox. So he dropped out of the race. Bingo. I think Fletcher Thompson was elected in his place. Fletcher offered my oldest son a scholarship to different military academies. I thought "that was nice of him" since I tried to wipe him out.
Anyway, after the Civil Rights Bill was passed, somewhere between that day and March I guess it was January the Georgia House reapportioned. As soon as the session was over they had called for special elections in March of 65. As soon as the legislature was over in 65 and I think that might have been the day whats-his-name hung over the banister and stopped the clock.

SHORT: Denmark Groover.

SUMMERS: Denmark Groover, who was a member of the Flying Tigers, one of those groups that . . .

SHORT: Black Squadron.

SUMMERS: Yeah. Yeah. I even went to a couple of their meetings in Atlanta. Denmark was up there. Anyway, I digress, which I do all the time. The night the session was over, I drug in the house, I fell across the end of the sofa, and the phone rang. It was Leon Eppling. And Leon says, Mary Anne, Im glad I got you. Weve got another race. He had worked with me and Charles. Hes a great guy. He says, Weve got another race. And I told him, You do it. And I said, Leon, theres not enough money in the world to make me take on another political campaign. He held the phone aside. He said, Elliott, come talk to her. I told you shed do it. Thats the way I got involved Elliott Levitas. So of course I did it. As a matter of fact, his wife, Babs, was pregnant with Kevin, who is now a member of the Georgia House. So I kept it in the family for 40-something years. That was good. I had some experiences there. And it was determined he was a Jew, and he was determined that wasnt going to hold him back and he was going to make those people take it. Dick Tibideaux, J. C. Rarey, who was head of the Masons, and Elliott were the three people in this non-partisan . . .

SHORT: Non-partisan. Yeah, special election.

SUMMERS: Yeah, special election.

SHORT: Because of reapportionment.

SUMMERS: Yeah, because of reapportionment. So we got us a campaign headquarters on West Ponce de Leon its now a vacuum store. Its just two little storefronts and set up business. Well, different things happened. I cant remember the boy who was political editor of the Constitution. Id know his name. But he would stop by there on his way home at night. Because I was there by myself a lot, and he just thought that wasnt good. He stopped by there one night. I think he brought me some supper and I was busy. And the phone rang, and this man says, You ought not to be working for that G. D. Jew. Youre a white girl. So youd better get out of there, because were going to do something about it. Well, I hung up on him. They called again. And Reg . . .

SHORT: Reg Murphy?

SUMMERS: No.

SHORT: Greg Favre?

SUMMERS: No. Anyway, he said, Mary Anne, dont you think you ought to leave? He said, I think I ought to leave. I said, Just sit down and drink your Coca-Cola, and I went back doing my work. They called again, and I said, Do not call me again. I hung up. They called the third time. They were going to bomb the place. I said, If youre going to bomb the place, go ahead and do it. I dont have time to mess with you. And I hung up. Scared him to death. Of course, they didnt come bomb it. They were just but there were lots of doors sprayed yellow. Anti-Semitism was bad. And I think its worse now, but it was bad then.
Another thing we did was Elliott was going to a Klan meeting. I said, No, you arent. He said, Yes, I am. It was on the second story of somewhere. It was dark. I said, Oh, God. Were going to get killed. He said, You just wait for me. He went up those steps, opened that door, and said, Hello, Im Elliott Levitas. Im running for the Georgia House, and then went around shaking hands. "I hope I can count on your vote." They were all sitting there like that. But he got elected. The whole ten years he was in the Georgia House, he was named one of the 10 most valuable legislators in the House. On the night of the election, he and Babs went home, and I called him to tell him to come on down, hed won the election. He said, I told you not to get excited! I havent won that election! He said, You know, I probably wont even be in the runoff. I said, Elliott, theres not going to be a runoff, and you have won. He said, You just wait til Midway comes in. I said, Midways in and you carried it. He said, Oh, my God. They dont know what theyve done. But then he went to the Legislature, and he was really good.
Of course, some people might not think this is good. But if it wasnt for Elliott, well, there wouldnt be a MARTA system in Atlanta. He also started cleaning up the Chattahoochee River and did all sorts of wonderful things that Im sure he probably told you about. But somewhere along there, two or three terms, Tom Murphy decided he wanted to run for Speaker of the House. Elliott had been toying with it, and he had been gathering support. The long and short of it was that he stepped aside so Tom wouldnt have any real anybody really against him and Tom appreciated that. From that day forward, every time we had a campaign rally or a campaign [indiscernible], Tom Murphy was there. After I got sick, he even started calling me just to check on me. But no matter what anybody says about Tom Murphy, he was a smart man and a good man.
Then we went to Congress and . . .

SHORT: That was the Dekalb and Rockdale Counties, wasnt it?

SUMMERS: Yeah.

SHORT: And the seat had been held by Judge Davis.

SUMMERS: Yeah, James C. Davis . . .

SHORT: Of Stone Mountain.

SUMMERS: . . . who owned most of the property the Klan met on. Did you know that? But then he decided to run for Congress. Now, something happened between that, but I cant remember it. Oh, well, if I think of it, Ill come back to it. Congress. We started running for Congress. Oh, wait a minute. Ive got to go back to one thing. When was Zell elected Lieutenant Governor the first time?

SHORT: Seventy-four.

SUMMERS: Okay. This was about that time. There were two people in this world that I would be loyal to come hell or high water, and one of them was Zell Miller and one of them was Elliott Levitas. So this is 74. Max Cleland, who was one of our constituents in Dekalb County, called and said, Mary Anne, Im going to run for Lieutenant Governor, and I want you to help me. And I said, Well, Ill do what I can. Well, on December 29, 1973, Zell took me to lunch. I was in the First National Bank and [indiscernible]. He took me to lunch and he said he was going to run for Lieutenant Governor. I said, Crap. I said, Max Clelands going to run. He said, I know it. I said, Have you talked to him, and he said, No. I said, Youve got to tell him. He said, You call. But before that, I said when he said he was going to run for Lieutenant Governor, I said, Zell, this is the first time since Ive known you that youve had a real paying job. You were head of the Board of Corrections and now youre on Pardon and Parole, and I said, They pay money. Shirley doesnt have to work day and night, and you dont have to borrow money on the trailers. Youve got a real job. He says, Im going to be Lieutenant Governor. And I thought, Oh, Lord, here we go again. But anyway, I called Max and told him that he was going to run for Lieutenant Governor and that I had to be loyal to him and that started another adventure.

[tape pause]

SUMMERS: Okay. Where was I? Going to Gainesville to help Zell Miller. He found us a rickety little house trailer on Lake Lanier. I think it was on James Mathis property and we started campaigning. He worked so hard, and we didnt have any money. We would drive over the mountain. Wed take Shirley and the two boys, and Zell and me and my children. I had a great big old burgundy station wagon. Wed pile them all in, drive across the mountain to Miss Purdys, eat everything we could find and bring home everything that wasnt nailed down to eat the next week til we could go back. I almost got slender that summer but that was a campaign like all campaigns.
Well, there were two things about it. That was where I found out about country music. Zell needed to talk to Bill Anderson, who was very popular in country music. He was doing his show in Greenville, South Carolina. He said he needed to talk to me, too, would I ride up there with him. And I said, Sure. So we get to Greenville and we go to Bills bus, and Bills letting us on the back of the bus and Zell said, Sit down and talk to this woman. Youll like her. It was Jan Howard who sang with Bill at that time. Jan had been married to Harlan Howard, and all these big country music names. I sat down and talked to her, and we liked each other, and shes been one of my best friends ever since. Sung at all our weddings and funerals and everything. Shes the one that called me and wanted me to go somewhere with her for a few days because she was so tired of Nashville. I told her I couldnt go. She said, Yes, you can. She told me where we were going, and I said, Ill meet you in Miami this afternoon, but Ill have to buy me some clean drawers and a toothbrush. We went to Jamaica to John and June Carter Cashs home called Cinnamon Hill, the ancestral home of Elizabeth Barrett Browning. It was up on a cliff overlooking the water and that was great. That was an experience Ill never forget. But through her and different things, I knew a lot of the I think one of the most exciting phone calls I ever got, the phone rang and this voice says, This is John. And I thought, Oh!.
But anyway, Zell wanted to talk to Bill about Bill coming to the 9th District and him doing a series of pickup little shows on one Saturday all around I know we went to Commerce and somewhere and Bill and the Po Boys would play and theyd attract a crowd, and Zell would talk about politics and wed go on off to the next one. The one place we couldnt go was Blairsville. Somebody was going to fly us up there or something, but the weather was so bad we couldnt go. We couldnt go to Blairsville. So we had to make plans to go back on a later Saturday. So we called and remember, money was very tight. Bill did that for free. But we called and found a couple that were on their way from Jackson to Nashville. They didnt really have money, but they said this girl could sing and we said, Good. We can pay her $100, or something like that. So she came, and we put on a barbeque around the courthouse in Blairsville, trying to keep the politicians we liked with us and ones we didnt like, we wanted them to go somewhere else. I was working, trying to make sure theres enough food and enough this and this one wasnt shoot that one. Zell says, Come listen to this woman. She can sing. And I looked at her. She had on a black like rayon dress. It was all stringing down and black with roses or something. Her roots were this long. She was blonde, but her roots were this long. I said, Okay. So I walked around there to listen to her, and that girl could sing. She and her brother Im not sure it was her brother, but God that girl could sing. And Zell gave her a check for $100, and she took it straight to the bank, surely to get it cashed and her name was Tammy Wynette. To be an illiterate that didnt have any education I dont say my career but my life has had some interesting directions.
Also, that campaign was when I found out about money and power and politics. Zell had gotten the endorsement of the Forsythe County paper, of several of them and Mr. Landrums money man came through the week the endorsements were coming out on Tuesday for the election the next Tuesday, and the money man hit the 9th District. He had his briefcase and hed go to this newspaper and hed say, Lets see, your district wants blah-blah-blah-blah-blah. Well, you know, Mr. Landrum cant arrange for that if hes not in office. He knocked out some I never will forget Forsythe County, the man who was head of some the Masons or somebody he was such a supporter of Zells. They hit him, and he called and he said, We cant do it. We cant endorse Zell. Of course I ripped and snorted.
But that showed me the depth I mean, all my politics had been fun, and if you worked hard youd get this. But that showed me the black cloud that lies over so many Elliott always told me that the art of politics was the art of compromise, that you had to give in order to get. But that man you dont get it if you give it. So that was a hard lesson for me to learn, but I never, ever forgot it and Zell lost by a very small margin. I kept thinking was there something I could have done that would make up for was there some dead folks that could have voted or something. But bless his heart. Shirley and I were there the election night, and we were at our headquarters at the Dixie Hunt Hotel in Gainesville. I believe if wed been higher than the second floor, Zell would have jumped. They had put everything they had into it, and it was a real . . .

SHORT: Including an endorsement from Lyndon Johnson.

SUMMERS: Yeah, Id forgotten about that. But that was hard on them, financially and every other way. I guess that was when he went to work for the Board of Corrections in Pardons and Paroles, and then decided to run for Lieutenant Governor.

SHORT: Yes.

SUMMERS: I dont know if I got that mixed up chronologically.

SHORT: Yes. He ran for Congress in 64 and then again in 66, two races.

SUMMERS: Yes. And I had something I was going to show you that I keep clipped on my calendar book. Its a little card about that big, dark blue, red writing on it, Let Zell Miller Represent You, and a picture of Zell with that bur-Marine haircut. I was going to show that to you. It was from that race. And lets see. After that, what happened. How far have we gotten?

SHORT: Well, were now at the point where Georgias very historical governors race that nobody won, and the Legislature had to decide.

SUMMERS: Bo Callaway and Lester Maddox. When it went to the and Peter Zach Geer did a magnificent job. Poor Zach had some of Bill Clintons problems, but oh he was magnificent. He was so smart. If hed just used it, he could have been God. But Elliott voted for Maddox, and I said, What have you done? He said, I had to vote the way my constituents wanted me to vote. It was almost like Charles voting for the Civil Rights Bill. But I talked to some black folks well, now theyre Afro Americans. But I talked to some that we had a lot of confidence in, and I said, What happened to these people? Why did Maddox get so many votes? Because he got a barn full of black votes. Thats what put him where he was. They said one old man especially, he said, Little Missy, we know what Lester Maddox is going to do. He says, You know, he does help folks that need it. He said, He talks ugly and carries a big stick, but he does do some good and he helps folks. He said, But we dont know nothing about that Mr. Callaway. We dont know nothing about Mr. Callaway and all his money. That made perfect sense to me. I guess I would have to call Lester Maddox a populist, just like George Wallace. They both ran their mouths, but they did help poor people. Might not let them eat in your restaurant, but they did help them keep a roof over their and be able to [indiscernible] or something.
After that, I dont know what I did. About time to go to Washington. Well, oh, Zell got elected I mean, Elliott got elected in 74. That was it. Off he went to Congress. Well, I went with him to be briefed and pick out an office and all that. Elliott said you cant believe how many supporters wanted to come to the swearing in, because this was a big deal. This is another time, a young Jewish man from the Deep South elected to the Congress. That was big time. So we made plans. We used John Flints office to do things and work out of til we could get an office. I said, Weve got to do something for all these people that are coming for your swearing in. Well, I understand, he says, that you can use these big conference rooms and all. And well have wine and well have this.
Now, just prior to that, Ben Blackburn had been scorched for serving alcohol at something in the Capitol, and we defeated him. So you just didnt tell Elliott, You cant do that, because that was just lighting a rocket. So I said, Well, that sounds good. I said, I can see the headlines now, New Congressman Sworn in with a Wine and Liquor Party. And I called the room that Ben had used. I said, I can see that now. And he said, All right. He said, Do whatever you want to. So I took it to the Democratic National Club, and it worked out really well. But Elliott was a real mover and shaker in Congress. I made me some notes on this envelope. He got MARTA some more money. Jim Wright came down here and inspected all of it. Came a day early, and Elliott wasnt even here. He wasnt back in town. So we got him on MARTA. We could only go on orange crates a certain distance. And the airport, Elliott got the money for the new airport. Not the brand new, but the first one after that.
He was on Public Works and Transportation, and he was on the FAA Oversight Committee, and he was chairman of Buildings and Grounds and something else. But this isnt in the right order, but Union Station was falling in Washington. He pushed that through the restoration and the money. The Pension Building. I dont know if youre familiar with the Pension Building, the prettiest building in Washington. Its where the people from the North what do you call those folks that fought for the North? The Union troops, thats where theyd go to sign up for . . .

SHORT: Yankees.

SUMMERS: Yeah. Thats where theyd go to sign up for his pension. And sometimes youd see it when they had that program from Washington about Christmas and the building with the big, huge Elliott always said if he ever got elected president, thats where he wanted to be. And then there was the snake house at the zoo. See, that was a federal building. So there was something snaky, sneaky about that snake house, but it rattled on and he took credit for that, and I said, Youd better not take credit for that. We just found out it was an FBI scam thing. The Chattahoochee. Andy tries to take all the credit for the Chattahoochee. But, hm-mm, that was Elliotts baby. We would even inspect the Chattahoochee. All our staff and all, wed get these rubber boats and wed go down the Chattahoochee and you hadnt lived until youd seen Elliott Levitas in a Speedo. And wed all eat barbeque.
Lets see. Oh, this was something he did. Elliott went to the Far East with a congressman from California. I cant remember his name. And when he got there, there were all those things going on in Lebanon. You know, everybodys bombing everybody. They wanted Elliott to meet with Arafat, who was the head of the PLO, who was causing a lot of this. Elliott wouldnt meet with him. So I cant read my notes on what I did about it. But Israel invaded Lebanon to get to the PLO, and Tip ONeill had set up this. Anyway, the long and short of it, Elliott wouldnt meet with him. So hes coming home, and all these things happen with that situation. Well, Elliotts already onboard a transatlantic flight and Ted Koppel is calling and this ones calling and that ones calling. Am I talking to long?

SHORT: Hm-mm. No, not at all.

SUMMERS: And I said, Weve got to do something about this. He cant be blindsided by all these people. Well, the plane was going to land in Boston. So I got Mary Jane Norville, who was working in our Washington office. I said, Mary Jane, theres a plan to Boston such-and-such time. Get your butt on that plane. And I called the folks at Eastern and said she was coming and they got got someone to meet her, and they were able to get on the plane before anybody deplaned. She brought him up to snuff on that. When Elliott got off the plane, he spoke with such authority, Well, I know so-and-so and so-and-so, and we expect this and this and this. He was on Good Morning America and Ted Koppels Nightline. I always loved to go with him to those places. Elliott didnt drive anywhere back then. We went over to Ted Koppel, and I got to sit in the Green Room and eat all the goodies while they were on television. But he was always doing things like that.
And he was a member of the North Atlantic Assembly, which was the parliamentary arm of NATO, and he was always going over and doing that. One time he was doing that and he and Babs were over there, and Kevin got sick. Kevin was 14, 15 years old. The lady that was babysitting and had worked for them for 100 years, she called up and she said, Mary Anne, I dont know what to do. Kevins sick. Hes mighty sick. And I said, Okay. Get so-and-so and take him to the hospital. And they did, and he was about to have a ruptured appendix. But they wouldnt and Dr. Levitas, his brother, I had him meet them up there. They would not operate on that child unless they had the parents permission. I said, Are you going to let him die? Well, Babs and Elliott were in Portugal, and they were spending the night at the American Embassy. But the phones in Portugal back then cut off at 10 oclock, so I couldnt get to Elliott and Babs. So I went to this little church in DC, and one of the people in the church was a brigadier general with the Marine Corps. So I got him out of bed, and I said, Ive got to get to the Marines guard the embassy, right? So he made some calls, and pretty soon I was he said they have a radio or phone in the guard shack. So I got that. Got Elliott on the phone. Got him hooked up with somebody at Emory. All these phone lines. And he said, For God sakes, operate on my son. She can sign it. So they did, and that turned out all right. But those are things that are sort of out of the ordinary for a secretary to have to do.
And another thing that Elliott did on one of his overseas trips, when all the Baptist dissidents were taking shelter in the American Embassy in Russia, do you remember that?

SHORT: Mm-hm.

SUMMERS: Well, Elliott and Pete, somebody from California, they go to the embassy and they visit with these people. They had to be in Russia for something. But while they were there, theyd go to the embassy. Theyd visit with them a long time, and theyd go to catch their plane. So Pete is when they go to get on the plane, I mean, hes everything but strip-searched. They didnt do that to Elliott, because Elliotts a Jew. What truck would he have with Baptist dissidents? He said, Thank you very much. Appreciate it. He got on the airplane. When he got off, he must have had 100 letters pinned in his coat that he had smuggled out of Russia to not a hundred but to friends and family so theyd know where they were. It didnt bother him a bit. He thought that was great.
One time when he was first up there Ive lost my timeframe again. EPA was causing a lot of trouble.

SHORT: [Indiscernible].

SUMMERS: Yeah. Ann Gorshitz was the head of it, and Rita Lavelle was her number-one person that was dealing with the superfund. So they arent cooperating, so Elliotts going to talk to the President of the United States to get their cooperation. So theyd call back and theyd say, Well, Mr. Levitas, the President cant do it today. Elliott finally said, I want him to come to my office. So I never expected him to do that. But Jim Miklaszewski is now the Pentagon person from NBC. He and some other folks sat in the corridor outside our office over the weekend it was snowing and lived off our Georgia peanuts and Coca-Cola and the White House called and they said, Well, the President can see Mr. Levitas such-and-such a time, but Im sure he cant get down here in the snow. I said, Well take it. So theres snow on the ground. So Elliott I called Pat Epps. And Elliott goes out to the airport, and Pat takes off. Hed found out they could land at Dobbins. Not Dobbins. Dulles. So I get the sergeant at arms, who had a black something like youve got and chains and we go to the airport, Dulles, to pick up Elliott. Epps is finally able to land. We get in the car. We haul back. The White House says, Well, we hadnt heard from you, so Im sure Mr. Levitas cant make the meeting. I said, Yes, he can. He was just waiting to hear from you. We were all panting like this. The long and the short of that was Rita Lavelle came and talked to him in our office after that, and then testified before his committee and wound up in jail, because she lied to the committee. That was an exciting weekend.
Things dont just happen. Whatever you see happening on I mean, theres all sort of people screwing around to make those kind of things happen. But then there were some funny things. After Elliotts last campaign, when he didnt campaign, I had an MS exacerbation in Washington. I had to spend a lot of time at the hospital up on the Hill, Capitol Hill Hospital. There at the foot of my bed looking out this tall window, there against the navy blue sky of Washington at night, which really is navy blue, was the dome of the Capitol all lit up. It was just like a picture. I wasnt there but two or three days before I realized, even though I wasnt going to be there anymore, that dome had not tilted. I wasnt going to be over there helping do the things I did. Its like taking your hand out of a bucket of water. Well, that was what looking at that dome it just had not tilted. Well, Mr. H. D. Pattilla had wanted Pat Swindall, I think, to offer me a job. Of course, I couldnt have done that. But anyway, after visiting hours one night here comes Swindall. My rooms dark, but Im looking at the and he jumps in and he says, Im Pat Swindall. I said, Oh, dear. So he goes to get some water, and hes standing by my bed right here and hes talking to me. Well, about that time I hear two sets of footsteps, and I knew who it was. It was Elliott Levitas and his daughter. And Elliott walk into my hospital room and he says, Hello. And he looks at Swindall and Swindall looked at him, and I said, Oh, shit. And they spoke. They reached across my bed, across me, and shook hands. To me, that was a big, big something.
But Elliott came back home. Went to Kilpatrick Cody. But that case of all the American Indians wanting the money they hadnt had in a thousand years, hes the lead counsel on it.

SHORT: Lets talk for a minute about that campaign, his last campaign. Pat Swindall was a young guy...

SUMMERS: A crook.

SHORT: ...who ran for Congress. And it was a very bitter, wasnt it, campaign?

SUMMERS: Elliott just wouldnt do anything, but Pat did all sorts of ugly things. Every time Pat ran for office, he got his wife pregnant so hed have all these kids. I knew a lot about Pat from my cousin over in Aniston that he used to sleep in the back of his daddys store. Pat had a hard life growing up, and maybe he didnt know right from wrong. But I found out that Pat had been arrested for DUI on Briarcliff Road in Dekalb County. I found it about because the man that was the not the DA, the next one the one that handles those kind of cases called and said, Mary Anne, Ive got something you need on Pat Swindall. Elliott wouldnt use it. I knew somebody that had walked in on him on a very compromising situation. Elliott wouldnt use it. Elliott is as fair and honest a man as Ive ever known in my life. Been lots of rumors about him for lots of different things, but Ill stand up for him from now til hell freezes over.

SHORT: Do you remember a guy named Rob Austin who managed the Swindall campaign?

SUMMERS: No. Ive tried to forget all about then.

SHORT: Well, thats understandable. If I asked you to describe Elliott Levitas in one word, what would you say?

SUMMERS: Well, the first word that comes to mind is brilliant. But theres got to be a better word, like outstanding is not good enough. Hes just the best there is. I mean, hes honest. One reason he was so popular in the Georgia General Assembly, something would come up, and he would explain to these south Georgia boys, Hey, you arent looking far enough. He would see the ramifications on and on and on. Sometimes they wanted him to help write a bill, and he would do it. He just absolutely my vocabularys not good enough to find the right words. Ill defend him now. I might cuss him out. I threw a telephone at him one time and hit the frame of the door, and it dented the door in the government building and then hes, My, my, my. I wonder if GSAs going to come after you. And that was all he said. One time I was driving him somewhere, rainy, and a car came out of the side and ran into us broadside and tore up his car. And all our food it looked like I was bleeding we had barbeque. And you know what he said? He didnt say, What the hell did you do that for? He said, Are you all right? I said, Yes. He said, Are you sure? I said, Yes. He said, Stay here. Ill handle this. If it had been me, Id have been hitting somebody in the head. But hes just an exceptional person.

SHORT: If I asked you to describe Zell Miller in one word, what would you say?

SUMMERS: About the same thing. Except hes a mountain boy and Elliotts a flatlander. But Zell, bless his heart, I think Zell is so honest sometimes it hurts. But I think hell stand by his word. You ought to know that.

SHORT: What in your recollection is your fondest memory of politics?

SUMMERS: I cant answer that. There are too many of them.

SHORT: You knew Ellis Arnall.

SUMMERS: Oh, yes. Elliott was in Governor Arnall's firm, and he got elected to Congress. I had made friends with Governor Arnall when he was in the firm. Hed call up and hed say, Mary, come down here and lets go up on top of that big building. And wed go up on top of First [indiscernible]. And he says, I need somebody to talk to. And Id say, Well, youve got lots of people to talk to. He said, Yeah, but they always say yes, Governor and youre right, Governor. Nobody will ever argue with me, and you argue with me. So one day I was in his office, and he was crawling with a train on the floor with one of my children. He offered me a job. He was going to run against Ernest Vandiver. I said, Governor Arnall, I cant work for you in that race. He says, Why not? Id pay you good. I said, Yeah, but I might have learned some things from or about Governor Vandiver that I wouldnt be able to tell you. Id be disloyal to him. And Id be disloyal to you if I didnt tell you. I said the same thing in reverse. I said, I just cant do it. Well, he appreciated that and the next thing he said, he said, Im going to give you some money. I said, For what? He says, I want you to go and by some of those pointy-toed shoes that women wear. I said, For what? He says, Well, Elliotts going to get to Washington and hes going to be two feet off the ground, and somebody needs to kick him in the ass regular to keep his feet on the ground. I said, I can take care of that. You dont have to buy me any shoes.
Going to Washington, there was a little church next store to me, Christ Church. I was raised a Baptist. The bells would go off, and Id think, Oh, God, I might as well get up and go to church as try to listen to it, try to sleep through this. I got involved in that little church, and it came to mean so much to me. As a matter of fact, I became senior warden in our little Episcopal church. The rector, the day the bishop was coming to do whatever he did, he says, You know, Mary Anne, I dont believe we have a copy of your letter. I said, No, you dont. He said, Well, you cant be a senior warden if you arent a member. I said, Well, you aint getting my letter from Clairmont Hills Baptist. If I move my letter, my grandmother would spin in her grave. He said, Well, I guess we can handle that. So the bishop came, and everybody lined up. In the Episcopal Church they pat you on the cheek or something to transfer all the power. He got to me and hes black. John Walker is black and he slapped me, then he slapped me again. So we had breakfast between services, and I said, Bishop Walker, how come you slapped me twice. He said, I was trying to slap the Baptist out. So any time we went anywhere hed say, Wait a minute. Wheres my Baptist buddy, my backsliding Baptist buddy?
I did a lot of things. I got reelected in that, and it meant a whole lot to me. I was on the call committee to call a new priest, whos now about to be a bishop. But he came and he brought all his paraphernalia about how qualified he was and this, and his wife. We must have interviewed 30 people, but I kept going back to this one. We called him and he accepted it. But hell never get over the fact that when I announced it to the congregation, I stood up and the place wouldnt hold but about a hundred people. Its the oldest continuously-occupied public building in the federal city. We moved into the new sanctuary in 1805. But anyway, I stood up and I said, I have an announcement to make, and I said that Bob Tate was going to come be our new rector and I said, There are lots of things I can tell you about him. You can read all the qualifications. But I said, The reason I wanted him, because he was just like sweet cream, rose right to the top. Well, the Bishop said, I heard what you said about sweet cream. I said, Yep. And he said, I guess you let the organist play one of your songs. John Philip Sousa had been the choirmaster in that little church, and they always played these Sousa marches. But on Easter theyd play Up From the Grave He Arose for me. So that would be my song. But I loved it.

SHORT: Well, you met a lot of interesting people.

SUMMERS: Oh, I did. People I see on television now: Henry Waxman and Dean Rusk. But all those people. I know one time my oldest son, 7th or 8th grade, his civics teacher said, Now, this is what theyre going to do. My sons hand went up and he said, No, maam. She said, Oh, yes. The Secretary of State is going to do this and this. He said, No, maam. She thought he was being ugly. He said, No, maam. He said, Last Friday night I had dinner with Dean Rusk at Congressman Levitas house, and he said so-and-so and so-and-so. My children campaigned for Zell. Donna gave out more balloons and buttons. It was just all family. I had a little blue Mustang. It was the first year, and I sold it to Zell for $500, and his two sons totaled it. I mean, they were just always family to me.
As a matter of fact, I wanted to show you something. Theres two or three pictures over here somewhere and then theres a bigger one with a yeah.

[phone ringing]

SUMMERS: Thats not supposed to be ringing. Oh. Close it and open it. This is my cell phone. Thank you. Ive got a picture wall Im going to put up some day. Do you recognize any of those people?

SHORT: Well, theres Levitas. Theres Elliott.

SUMMERS: T. D. Jacobs. Theres [indiscernible].

SHORT: Yeah.

SUMMERS: [Indiscernible].

SHORT: And I dont know who this is.

SUMMERS: Oh, he became head of the Democratic Party I think. Cant remember his name. And you know this guy.

[phone ringing]

SHORT: Thats Zell Miller. He says that you are a brilliant political operator.

SUMMERS: Operative.

SHORT: Operative. Yeah. Well, he doesnt write very well. He certainly was . . .

SUMMERS: What else does he say?

SHORT: He says, To Mary Anne, an able aide, a brilliant political operative, my love and a ding . . .

SUMMERS: Dingbat.

SHORT: Dingbat.

SUMMERS: I treasure that.

SHORT: Yeah, thats nice.

SUMMERS: And this, when Elliott went to Congress, he had four of these made. One for his mother, one for his wife, one for Miles Alexander and one for me. And then look at the note he put on the back of it. Thats his first official paper.

SHORT: M-A-S, with love, Alpha to Omega, Elliott. Thats nice.

SUMMERS: And thats you asked me what my favorite things in politics were. All that sort of sums it up.

SHORT: Well, youve had a very interesting life. Youve contributed very much to the political climate of Georgia and we thank you very much for being our guest today.

SUMMERS: Thank you for having me.

[END]