James Tysinger, 05 June 2008.

Jim Tysinger interviewed by Bob Short
2008 June 5
Atlanta, GA
Reflections on Georgia Politics
ROGP-034
Original: video, 62 minutes

sponsored by:
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
University of Georgia Libraries
and
Young Harris College

Date of Transcription: September 19, 2009

BOB SHORT: [In progress] ... Short and this is Reflections on Georgia Politics sponsored by Young Harris College and the Richard Russell Library at the University of Georgia. Our guest today is former State Senator Jim Tysinger, who were very happy to visit with today.
Before we get into your service in the Georgia General Assembly, Senator, wed like for you to tell us if you will, a little bit about yourself, your family, and how you got involved in politics.

JIM TYSINGER: Okay. Well, Im a basically a native of North Carolina. I grew up in Greensboro, but during the Depression jobs were not easy and my father got one in Washington so we moved to Washington D.C. and I went to high school in Washington D.C. Couldnt go to college because then they didnt have student loans or anything and so I went to I joined the National Guard. I was always interested in the Army. As a matter of fact, I wanted to go to West Point. So I joined the Guard because I could take the competitive exam for the Army and at the same time I was in the Army I liked that portion of it. And I busted my physical for West Point because I had to wear glasses and I didnt realize then you had to have 20/20 uncorrected vision. And we went in I was in a unit that got mobilized early, in January of 41 and we went to Fort Bliss, Army career there. War was declared; we went to Birmingham and stayed up there. When they lowered the age limit to below 21 I applied for OCS and went to OCS and graduated in July commissioned in July and went to my first first unit I was assigned to was a Georgia National Guard unit from Calhoun, Georgia, and we sailed for the Pacific in September. I was overseas for over three years. I served in the South Pacific, Southwest Pacific, Guadalcanal, New Guinea, Leite, and Luzon, and came home after the war and went to Georgia Tech and ended up the first three years I was in oil field with Shell Oil Company. My daughter got polio, we moved back here to take a Warm Springs because it was the best place to take her. So I came back and forth to Westinghouse as an engineer with them and retired from them.

SHORT: How did you get involved in politics?

TYSINGER: I got involved in the Goldwater Campaign. I thought he was I read about his background and enjoyed him and so I got involved then just as a worker in the Goldwater campaign and then from that got involved in the DeKalb because the Goldwater campaign was at the time there was no DeKalb Republican party to speak of. There was a group in South DeKalb, Frank and those group

SHORT: Frank Miller?

TYSINGER: Frank Miller. And so, I got involved with the DeKalb Republican Party and you know as a precinct worker putting up signs and all that and finally I became a Precinct Chairman. But I was asked to run, during Bo Callaways campaign, I was asked to run for the House. They were looking for members and I didnt have any money. And they promised to raise me a thousand dollars and I matched it with a thousand and ran against [Indiscernible] Malone, got defeated, because then it was a four man district covering all of almost all of DeKalb and all of Rockdale County and it was difficult to get around, especially with the machine the four of them had all set up together. And then in the court decision they made it that you couldnt have a four man district at that time and the Senate was already a one man one vote district and I during that time I served on as a councilman for the Old Village of North Atlanta. Matt Conway who was a Senator put a bill in for a Constitutional Amendment to do away with North Atlanta. I thought he was wrong, that what was behind it was developers who didnt like the zoning we were putting out. And so, we lost that election and North Atlanta was they were abolished.
And so, the next year, two years later, they asked me to run for the Senate. They wanted a candidate they had some people lined up for the House. Bob Bell ran as one, Stan Collins and Harry Geisinger. And so, I ran for the Senate. Again, I didnt have any money to speak of. I got some donations, but looking at the money spent today, I think I ran for less than $10,000 the first time. But because I had a lot of friends and we had kind of an organization built up, thats where I won the election. Conway, at that time, had become and Independent because he did not vote in the election for the governor, when the General Assembly voted for governor. He did not he said his people in the district didnt vote for Governor Maddox and therefore he was going vote the other side. The next time he ran as an Independent and I ran against him and there was a Democrat in the race. It was a three man race. He was eliminated and it was down the Democrat and I and I beat him in a run off election. And which surprised me how I got that far, but anyway, I went in and I was very fortunate that I was able to serve 30 years. I have some terrific people supporting me and it was 30 years, I hope that Ive done something for Georgia. I got a lot out of it, too.

SHORT: You sure did. And I want to tell you, of all the public officials that I have known over my 50 odd years of being in and associated with Georgia government, I hold you in high esteem.

TYSINGER: Well youre grateful Im grateful for that and youre kind to say that.

SHORT: Youve been a great public servant. But I I would like to ask you this question. Why did you decide to be a Republican in a state that had been Democratic for a hundred years?

TYSINGER: Well, Id always believed in the Republican philosophy. Some of that came really out of my father-in-law. When I came back, you know, after the war I didnt know anything or anybody anything political or maybe whats going on. The strangest sensation I had coming back when the ship got close the United States, we started hearing the radio and I what the hell is going on? (Laughter) People with all those ads and stuff. But anyway , I so I got interested in that way. And the philosophy in part. Ill have to admit that when I was at Georgia Tech we lived at Lawson apartment and it was election there and I, at that time, I voted wasnt anything to do. I voted Democrat. There was long paper ballots and so forth. But philosophically thats what I believed in and so thats why I became a Republican. And Barry Goldwater was the center of that.

SHORT: So in your first term in the Georgia Senate you were one of seven

TYSINGER: Seven.

SHORT: Republicans.

TYSINGER: Thats correct.

SHORT: You had a Democratic Governor and a Democratic Lieutenant Governor.

TYSINGER: Yeah.

SHORT: In those days, Senator, Georgia had probably the strongest governor system in the country.

TYSINGER: That is correct. Well, actually, when Governor Maddox took over, Speaker Smith realized that they had elected him and so Speaker Smith basically assumed a lot of the powers that previous governors had. As I understand it, the governor the previous governors would almost appoint who was going to be a speaker and who was going to be in the chairman position. And so, Speaker Smith recognized this political thing and basically grabbed the power away from Governor Maddox. I think Governor Maddox was I wont say he was nave but I think Governor Maddox wanted to get along and so he did not resist it as a Carl Sanders might have done it. And so then the power basically more power shifted to the General Assembly. It became less of a strong government than we previously had.

SHORT: What sort of

TYSINGER: On a few occasions individuals did get calls to come down to the governor to explain the legislation to him.

SHORT: Were you ever called down?

TYSINGER: I was never called down.

SHORT: What sort of committee assignments did you get from a Democratic Senate?

TYSINGER: George Smith was -- who is the other George Smith was very, very I think fair and my first assignment and which I stayed the whole three years I was in and I enjoyed it. It was higher education. I had public utility and I think I went on appropriations, too, that time. Later, I under Governor Maddox when he was Lieutenant Governor I became Chairman of Science and Technology and I thats one area I stayed in, dropped public utility. That was one of my assignments. But George Smith was fair. And I want to say other thing. For the most part, the Democrats were very fair to me. I only recall one one Democrat I would not put in that category but basically they were very fair to me. And I was I cannot you know, I think that I was treated very well.

SHORT: 1970.

TYSINGER: Yes, sir.

SHORT: 1970 of that election the Democrats were deciding whether or not they would nominate Carl Sanders or Jimmy Carter. As it turned out Carter won. But the Republicans had a pretty hotly contested race between Atlanta newsman Howell Suit and Jimmy Bentley, who had left the Democratic party and become a Republican.

TYSINGER: Yeah.

SHORT: How did the Republicans feel about that switch?

TYSINGER: Well, most of us knew Howell Suit because of his TV and thought hed be the favorite. I dont recall if there was any animosity; they just favored Howell Suit. As you know, he was a World War II veteran, wounded, and handled himself very well and so we went behind Howell Suit.

SHORT: And that same year Senator Frank Miller, who you mentioned earlier, was a candidate against Democrat Lester Maddox.

TYSINGER: Yeah.

SHORT: And Maddox won that one. How did you rate Maddox as a governor?

TYSINGER: You know he was very accessible. We could get into his office and talk to him and that didnt happen under other governors later on. But we could get in and talk to him and he was fair. Earl Patton and I went down there. Georgia Tech was trying to raise some money to match the Callaway Foundation for the student center at Tech, and I went down to talk to him and he I think, if I remember right, we got $30,000 out of him to help us in that over there. He was fair and he was accessible. Always had a good humor about him.

SHORT: How was he as Lieutenant Governor?

TYSINGER: Same way. He was fair and as I told I believe that two senators basically influenced him and some of the decisions he made and they were Gene Holly from Augusta and Smith from down in Perry, Georgia. Smith was a would he was a rough person to deal with. And I think that in that position he had I think he was Rules Chairman. I believe he was. He was pretty rough on us. But Governor Maddox was, even as a Lieutenant Governor was very fair. Because of Armstrong, Smith was close to him. As our Republic leader, I got Chairmanship out of it. I was Chairman of Science and Technology and Paul Coverdell came under retirement.

SHORT: Recite for us if you will the constant feud between Governor Carter when he was governor and Lieutenant Governor Maddox when he was Lieutenant governor.

TYSINGER: Well there was animosity to it and the five of us at that time were Republicans. Because wed lost some seats, the five us were really the swing vote. And we'd go with Governor Maddox or Governor Carter as we wanted to. And Id tell people I had more sandwiches and Cokes with Governor Carter downstairs in his office and Governor Maddox was also through not him directly but through others were also a vote. And so, we were the swing votes. But again, I said we were treated always fairly with the Democrats. I had many Democrats as friends. Paul Brown down at Athens was one of the best friends I had in the Senate, for example. And Bobby Rowan and these others. Frank was there. And so, I think Governor Maddox as Lieutenant Governor did a commendable job.

SHORT: Lets talk for a minute about some senators with whom you served. Hugh Gillis.

TYSINGER: Hugh Gillis. Hugh Gillis, low key, but an individual who went into the as I understand it, went into the House at the age of 25 and went through many of those periods of time, particularly when they elected the General Assembly elected Governor Maddox, but other instances. He had a deep interest and always was Chairman of Natural Resources and helped the natural resources of the state. He always that was one of his big things.

SHORT: Bobby Rowan.

TYSINGER: Bobby Rowan probably was the best stump speaker Ive ever heard. And he could sway an issue like no one else. As I told you earlier, I recall one instance there was a deal dealing with mobile homes going down the highways and Bobby Rowan in opposition to it went into the well and made a speech as if from the perspective of his young son traveling with him in a car and said whats up, daddy, wheres that going? How long we going to be there? And there was mobile home in front of him. He did such a good job he won he beat he won, he beat the measure. And Hugh Carter, who had mobile homes in his district, got so daggone mad. I mean he was spitting mad about that one issue.

SHORT: How about Paul Coverdell?

TYSINGER: Paul was came in, he beat one of the I wont say the leading Democrat but a big Democrat here in the city. He was a friend of the bankers and

SHORT: Jack Hardy.

TYSINGER: Jack Hardy. And I know Paul, I remember one time went up to Mills Lane and asked Mills Lane for money and Mills Lanes comment, well, you SOB, youre running against my best friend. Paul said he backed out of the room. But Paul was a tireless worker and he said Governor Maddox made him Chairman of the Retirement Committee and he took some steps to try to improve the retirement system and the accountability in that. He was always very interested in the things that were going on. And I think he was a real dedicated individual.

SHORT: He was elected and re-elected to the United States Senate.

TYSINGER: Yes.

SHORT: I wonder what

TYSINGER: Well, first, you know he ran for Congress and was defeated.

SHORT: Defeated, yes, uh-huh.

TYSINGER: But then he kept at it and ran for the United States Senate and was elected. And I ran into him on several occasions. You know, he had served in the Peace Corp., too. And I ran into him on several occasions while he was doing that but also as a senator and Paul never took care of himself. He would hes energetic. He basically lived on coffee and peanut butter crackers I think. And I chastised him about that the last time we were in Tulsa that he better start taking care of himself. But he was all he was energetic. He was all into it, very dedicated.

SHORT: He took on a big task in facing and incumbent United States Senator who had the support of the Speaker of the House, Tom Murphy, and others. What was the Republican thinking at the time? Did you think he could win?

TYSINGER: Well, I didnt really honestly, and I think that the turning coat was the exposure of the money in the overcoat pocket. And at that time Herman had come up with a few other things that had hed lost, I think, many of the people in the state. Thats my opinion. And I think Paul built on that. I think that was one of the factors that Paul won.

SHORT: Bob Bell.

TYSINGER: Bob Bell and I are good friends and have been. We went to the same church together. As a matter of fact, Bob went in the House and I went in the Senate and later when there was an opening, after reapportionment in '70 and they redrew lines and DeKalb County go more senators in here, Bob Bell ran for the 5th District and won and as you know, later, after several years, he ran for governor against Joe Frank and then dropped out of politics in general. But were still good friends.

SHORT: Okay. Now, lets talk for a minute about the Lieutenant Governors with whom you served. We mentioned Maddox.

TYSINGER: And George Smith.

SHORT: And George smith. Then there was Zell Miller.

TYSINGER: Zell was most of time I was in the Senate Zell was Lieutenant Governor. Again, I was treated fairly. Zell, the latter part I think he would have done it earlier had it not been for some people, like I said, like Holly and others. But Zell made me Chairman of the Georgia World Congress Center Overview Committee and I served in that for several years. But he was always accessible and youd go talk to him and if he had a piece of legislation you were particularly interested in and it wasn't something he was vehemently opposed was in opposition to, hed help you. So I have real fond memories of him.

SHORT: You served, I believe, for one of probably your final term with Lieutenant Governor Mark Taylor.

TYSINGER: Yeah. No, I was not.

SHORT: You were not there?

TYSINGER: Mark was Mark was the floor leader for Governor Maddox I mean, Im sorry. Governor Miller.

SHORT: Speaking of Governor Miller, upon the untimely death of Senator Paul Coverdell, Governor Roy Barnes appointed him to the United States Senate. As a Democrat replacing a Republican, what was the reaction among Republicans to that?

TYSINGER: I think they thought Zell would probably be the best person that he could put up there. Zell had never been at odds I think with goals that the Republicans wanted to achieve, and so, there was no negative image of him. And they felt that that was probably the best person they could put up there. And you know, when Zell got to Washington apparently he was exposed to some politics he couldnt didnt like and he told them. He's written a couple books about that. And I was fortunate that I went to the National Republican Convention when he made the speech at the National Republican Convention. And he got a he was got a standing ovation. It was outstanding.

SHORT: Do you think there was any basic difference in the political philosophies of Coverdell and Miller?

TYSINGER: Thats an interesting point. And no, I dont. I think Paul might have been in certain areas, you know, he was one of those opposed to Hillarys healthcare. That was one of the big issues he was in. He was in that. But philosophically, you know, I think there was a lot of similarity between the two in their outlook. I think Zell always had a very high opinion of Paul. And if I recall, Zells comment when he took the position had something to do with and I dont remember the exact words, but it came across to me, "Im going to carry out Pauls philosophy." Thats what came back to me. Thats the way Interpreted it.

SHORT: Among your chairmanships during your service in the Senate you were also Chair of the Metropolitan Atlanta area Rapid Transit Overview --

TYSINGER: Thats correct.

SHORT: -- Committee.

TYSINGER: And then later became the MARTA Ethics Committee.

SHORT: Tell us, if you will, Senator, about how the legislation that created MARTA was passed.

TYSINGER: Well, MARTA was created by legislature. As you recall, it was a vote of the people of DeKalb and Fulton County voted for it for the one cent sales tax. And that was the issue that put MARTA into business. MARTA, however, I think politically was organized incorrectly. One of the things we had the head of MARTA at that time was a hard headed individual you couldnt even talk to. And we I remember we in the Senate tried to get them to accept the railroad cars built down in Winder, Georgia -- they were building for Washington, D.C. and they wouldnt do it; they wanted their own car, their own design and went to France to buy them. And that upset some people, but they Elliot Levitas who was in the House then, got upset to a degree he was actually at that time he was Chairman of MARTA. But he got upset with him because of the money they were spending and how they were spending it. So, Elliot got two bills passed. One of them was that I think it was I remember now what the count the percentage was, but a good percent of that money had to be couldnt be used for fairs subsidizing fairs; it had to be use for construction. And they also passed legislation that the fair box had to bear more of the cost of the ride. And had it not been in that, MARTA would have gone broke a long time ago. And Elliot Levitas was one, I think, farsighted enough to see that the money was not being spent well. That director finally left and went to Houston and MARTA then came we were fortunate. We had Dan Patillo was one of the Chairman and he was very aggressive in pushing it. We in DeKalb County got upset because legislation was passed to build Atlanta to the airport without coming into DeKalb County. And Dan went along with that but he did build a first line into Brookhaven and then on up. And then later David Chestnutt got in and did a good job too. So we were fortunate in DeKalb County. We had two good Chairmen in that MARTA.

SHORT: Originally Cobb County opted out.

TYSINGER: Cobb County opted out and I dont recall it might have been racial. I dont recall the reason. But DeKalb did and Fulton did. Now one of the things that we tried for several years is to get the sales tax from the Atlanta Airport included, which is probably now itd be two or three million dollars. And Clayton County, since the airports in Clayton County it would not allow that to take place because of some political questions between the Chairman down there and then Maynard Jackson.

SHORT: Lets talk now, if you will, for a minute or two about the rise of the Republican party in Georgia.

TYSINGER: Well it was a slow process, but I think philosophically, as you pointed out earlier, many of the Democrats in this state were very conservative minded and they didnt like some of the things taking place in Washington. I think that was the impetus they didnt want to be identified with it. And so, that slowly built. We were fortunate we had Paul was Chairman of the Republican party I believe during that period of time and really worked to get the message across and we slowly picked up seats. When I left I think there were we probably had 15 or 16 Republicans when I got out. And then the impetus went over and we became the Senate became Republican.

SHORT: Did you think you would ever elect a Republican governor?

TYSINGER: Well, we almost elected Bo Callaway. (Laughter) But you know, it was a question. I think the people of Georgia, as I said, were conservative and they didnt like some of the things that Washington was doing and basically some of the things that Jimmy Carter did up there as president, and so I think that turned them against it. And I think thats why we picked up so many Republicans in the Senate.

SHORT: Carter left office in Washington in a mess.

TYSINGER: Yeah, what was it? Interest rates I mean the gasoline was as high as it is, or getting up there and matter of fact, it was a shortage if you recall. You couldnt even get gasoline. And also, inflation was very, very high.

SHORT: Interest rates were high.

TYSINGER: Interest rates were high, and so, that, I think was one of the factors that put Ronald Reagan in. Because Ronald Reagan, he had both Democrat and Republican votes when he went in.

SHORT: Reagan Democrats they called him.

TYSINGER: Beg your pardon?

SHORT: They called them Reagan Democrats, those that

TYSINGER: Blue Dog Democrats.

SHORT: Blue Dogs. Yes, sir.

TYSINGER: As a matter fact, the Wall Street Journal yesterday had an article about the Blue Dog Democrats still in existence. I think there were 37, 38 of them and they were wouldnt were pushing the Speaker up there who wouldnt help on a bill because it was not tax no money to offset the spending she wanted. And they were insisting new balance if youre going to spend some money you make certain you got some money to spend and dont just go in debt for it.

SHORT: Some states have registration by party. What do you think of that?

TYSINGER: I like Georgias system. And that is you vote whatever you want to at the time. Otherwise we would have a difficult time building a Republican party.

SHORT: But doesnt that allow cross voting?

TYSINGER: It allows crossing voting and probably some of that has taken place. But I think thats -- I know at times they made an issue of that. I always I didnt participate in that. But there is, and thats one of the weaknesses of that system. But I still believe you have the right to be an independent or vote Republican or vote Democrat or vote Libertarian.

SHORT: When we were talking earlier about some of your colleagues in the Senate I failed to ask you about probably the most colorful one who ever served, a fellow named Culver Kidd.

TYSINGER: Culver Kidd sat in front of me and Ill say one thing about the positive thing about Culver, and that is Culver probably passed more legislation for departments of state government, because they asked him to do it, than any other senator. Culver would go out and have a liquid lunch and come back in and he would in one instance he got to the well and spoke of a bill that was the next bill up, not the bill he was supposed to be. He got mixed up on his bills. And he had a he was a colorful individual. On one occasion, I said he sat in front of me, and I went in the Senate and there was a young woman sitting in that seat with a page button on and I said what the hecks going on? She was a night club owner or singer out here on Roswell Road and he'd brought her in for his page that day. (Laughter) I dont think

SHORT: Were you there

TYSINGER: Thats Culver.

SHORT: Were you there the day he wore his Crown Royal britches?

TYSINGER: Yes.

SHORT: Do you remember that?

TYSINGER: Yes. Culver was always a source if you wanted some liquid refreshments, youd go to Culvers office.

SHORT: Well, you had the pleasure of serving with six governors.

TYSINGER: Yes.

SHORT: Lets talk for a minute about them. Of course we mentioned Lester Maddox. He was governor during your early years. You served with Jimmy Carter. You went through the Carter reorganization legislation. And incidentally, thats been many, many years ago. Do you think that reorganization worked?

TYSINGER: No. Well, it worked in part. The biggest mistake was made and I voted against it was the Department of Health, he broke it up. We had Department of Health and Department of Mental Health or something like that. And he broke that up. Now we have a department over there that you cant manage. Its too big and theyre constantly in the paper about children abused within the system, but its too big. And that was one of the mistakes. I voted against that. Some of the others we needed, but that was one big mistake.

SHORT: How about George Busby?

TYSINGER: George was a good governor. One of the things he started was a and pushed, was a concept of and while its located on Tech campus, there were other people involved in it. And that is where you could have a incubator for businesses. And I thought that was a good idea. Where you had this place where a business could come in with under basically low rent and with help from the University system start his business and then branch out on his own. I think that was one of the big steps that he made. But there were others. He was a good governor too.

SHORT: Did you support the lottery?

TYSINGER: I did. Let me tell you this. I supported the concept of lets let the people vote on it. That was the concept I went on. And the legislation that was passed was the right legislation. And the fact that it was restricted, if I recall the details, to four areas, one was for Hope scholarship, one was for, I believe it was the kindergarten program; one was for scientific technical approach. As you recall, Governor Miller put dish antennas at each school and put computers in each school. And then the third fourth thing was reserve so that if the funds were to decline thered be enough money to keep the Hope Scholarship going. I think thats one of the big things that came out of that. And I think it was properly I hope it does no one amends that. I think thats the those are the [Indiscernible] should go in. And I visited one of the things I tried each year, not each year, but I tried to visit every school in the district I served. And I know I went into one up here at Nancy Creek and I was asking about what they were doing with the government money they got from the governor and they I went in there and they had a room full of computers that hadn't even been put to use. And I went over to the Superintendent of schools and I complained about it and the principal was basically relieved. But it was a good program. And I went to schools in Gwinnett County and they had they were using this program to bring science programs that they couldnt probably afford that kind of instruction. I remember one was from Arizona, was excellent. So theyre doing I think they basically under Governor Miller that was a right step in the right direction.

SHORT: Of course that was his main campaign issue was the lottery. So you would give him high marks overall as a governor?

TYSINGER: I would. I think it turned out well as opposed to the way Florida did it. I mean Florida put it in a General Treasury. This was, I think, well structured and its been a good use. The Hope Scholarship has been one of the best things weve done in this state.

SHORT: What do you think about earmarks in state government?

TYSINGER: We dont have earmarks as such as they do in the federal government. You cant put an earmark on an appropriation item. It has to basically stay by itself. For example, Ive gotten some money for parks but it was done, specifically spelled out thats where it was going. I think it was while it was, I think, complete in the disclosure, its not hidden as it does in the federal government. Theres too much of that still going on in Georgia giving, you know, the money out. And usually, if you recall, what happens is you appropriation the governor would make an estimate on the low side and more money would come in so when you come in for the amended budget, which was supposed to be just for -- basically the amended budget was to be for the school attendants to bring that up. Thats what we required. If you have more students then you need more money and you dont know how many students youre going to have until they register in September. But that was brought out and that issue was and I voted against the budget several times because there are areas in that thing and the money was while it went through a department, it was full disclosure, I just think it was wrong.

SHORT: How do you rate Georgias appropriations process? Seems that it always ends up the last two or three days.

TYSINGER: That I think is a weakness. You spend all the time in appropriation meetings and the House passes a bill and sends it to the Senate. One of the things that disturbed me early on, Speaker Smith would send the appropriation bill over to the Senate and did not give them enough time to really consider it and what was in it. If I recall, one of the conference committees report, we got it at 11:30 I think on the last night and we turned it down. And the House members in there were lined up along the side because they didnt want to come in the special session. And we were got commitments that there'd be certain corrections made to the appropriation committee. And so we reconsidered and passed it. But then thats why the Senate passed their rule that you had to have the appropriation over during a certain time. But I still think, I mean, a lot of work needs to be done in that area. When you go in a conference committee report basically the appropriation of Georgia is decided by six people, thats the conference committee report, and I think that it should be they should not have that much power that six people are going to make that decision. Because it comes back to you and they could change it completely the way youve passed it. You dont have enough time to really look into it.

SHORT: Getting back to the governors we were talking about, you also served with Roy Barnes.

TYSINGER: Right.

SHORT: What kind of governor was he?

TYSINGER: Well, Roy was not governor when I was governor.

SHORT: Oh, he wasnt?

TYSINGER: When I was in the Senate. Roy was in the Senate with me and was an outstanding senator. And he was an excellent individual to go in the well and explain something. He did it always with a sense of humor that he had. If I recall, he ran for governor unsuccessfully or ran for some seat unsuccessfully and got out of the Senate and later came back into the house. And then after I left he ran for governor and won. Roy and I are good friends.

SHORT: And you didnt serve with Sonny Perdue but tell us what you think of him as a governor?

TYSINGER: Well, you know, Sonny and I are friends and when he first came to the Senate I perceived in my own mind that he was going to be a coming leader. As a Democrat he worked his way up. Like I said, he got me on if you recall, he had a special committee on gas deregulation and he got me on that committee with him and other committees. And so, I was impressed with him. And then he became president pro tem of the Senate and then I left. The one thing I think personally that why he became disenchanted and became a Republican was Charles Walker and the power he had picked up under Pierre Howard and some of the things he was doing. And it was others, but Charles Walker namely he didnt put up with that stuff so thats why he changed.

SHORT: Well you certainly had a very interesting career. As you look back over it, what is your fondest memory?

TYSINGER: Oh, God, its hard to separate those. [Indiscernible] I just think that looking back I hope one thing, as I said earlier, that I might have made some contributions to the state. One of the last pieces of legislations I handled two of them. One of the last pieces of legislation I handled was the electronics transfer signatures, which has been a bonus for Georgia and the legal profession and legal documents. And the last thing is that when they closed Brook Run working with Pierre Howard as Lieutenant Governor we set that up. Thats 100 acres in DeKalb over 100 acres, and the legislation provided for 70% green space, so they cant do anything out there. Theyre restricted. And DeKalb bought it, I think for $2 million and its been a tremendous asset to our county.

SHORT: Before I forget it I want to ask you about your Tysinger Breakfast that you used to have in DeKalb County.

TYSINGER: Well, when Bob Bell and I were in the General Assembly I thought of the idea that we should get together basically on a weekly basis. Bob Guhl was in there and was DeKalb Commissioner and later became Chairman, Harry Geisinger, and we had Joe Willingham who was on the school board. We used to get together and talk about issues so that wed all become familiar with what others were doing and maybe work together and coordinate our efforts together. We started off just having breakfast over here at the Holiday Inn and other people started coming in and joining us. And it got kind of out of hand. They gave us room on the side after breakfast and then we transferred we been kicked out of every hotel in DeKalb County I think because the guys basically want to drink a cup coffee rather than eat breakfast. And so, the last thing that happened is that the Republican party wanted to have wanted a better place. And we had been raising money as a breakfast fund you contributed I think $3 or something like that. We were raising money for it and had some money we set aside.
And so, and we had a yearly breakfast that I started as a presidents dinner. And the reason I started that, the Atlanta newspapers came out with an article that said the Republican party is dead in Georgia. That was the headline. It made me angry. So I said well have a Lincoln Day Dinner because that used to be the old Republican dinner. We had it up here at the Marriott and we had Phil Crane come down from -- to be our speaker and we had standing room only. So we took the money and we had it set up just to pay some expenses but we were approached by the Chairman of the Republican party for support. And while we were not aligned -- its non-aligned Republican -- its so we can get judges and others to come to it, and Democrats to come to it. We promised that we would pay a portion of the monthly rent for the place if we were allowed to use it on Saturday morning. So we used the Republican headquarters building on Saturday morning for which we paid roughly five, six hundred dollars a month for that opportunity. And we raised the money for it within our group. And since its not its not while were in a Republican headquarters and many of us are Republicans, its structured so that we hear all of the judges. Not many people they cant go to a partners in politic political place, so we get the judges in, we get other people in who are in school board races and all. We get people in from weve had Ive had Sam Nunn come talk to us. We had other Democrats. And it s just I feel what we need to do is educate the people whats going on they dont see in the newspapers, and you hear this direct from people. And its been successful.

SHORT: Youve been a real hard worker for the party. Tell us, if you will, about some of the early hard workers in the Republican party.

TYSINGER: Well, theres a friend of mine that was probably the leader when I went in. Its this fellow named Al Warrington. Al was with Arthur Andersen, was a partner of Arthur Andersen, later moved out of the state to Miami and then ended up in Texas where he went and retired basically from Arthur Andersen. But went into business, made a fortune out there. But Al was one of our early leaders, Al Warrington. And of course Bob Bell was one of them and built a thing [ph]. Joe Willingham who was on the school [ph] that helped. Bob Guhl did a lot to that area. These are some people who [Indiscernible]. Harry Geisinger and Stan Collins didnt were not theyd come to some but not many. But those are essentially the ones that were in there.

SHORT: What do you see politically down the road? Do you think the Democrats can regain power in the state?

TYSINGER: Thats a good question. I think that they will gain some but its going to be a cycle or some time I think before they really gain the power. If you recall, the Democrat election on the old county unit system was predicated on the sheriffs of various counties and they had this system. The sheriff was a big keynote key person in each county. Thats gone. And the other thing that the Democratic party went into was a series of very liberal people, probably a lot of African Americans in there and but I think its a liberal concept more than anything else that theyve got to change their concept and come back there. Because many of the Democrats had when I was in the Senate had the same philosophy I did. They really did. I had many friends. Paul Coverdell, I mean, and Paul Brown, Bobby Rowan, Frank Eldridge, just to name some of them.

SHORT: So you felt comfortable in the Senate even though you were in a

TYSINGER: I was always accepted as a senator.

SHORT: -- minority? Pardon?

TYSINGER: I was always accepted as a senator.

SHORT: Yes, sir. Okay, now, as you look back over your career, what has been your biggest disappointment?

TYSINGER: Well, thats a good question, too. You know I dont know whether I had any real disappointments. I think I was frustrated sometimes when I could get bills through the House but not through the Senate through the Senate but not through the House. And Speaker Smith had a system over there that the bill would come over and theyd put in a committee and they'd put it in a sub-committee and you had to work your way through a very maze to get through it. And if the Speaker didnt want it it didnt get passed. So that was my biggest frustration. I get and many of the other senators the same way. They would pass bills that were good bills and if Speaker didnt want it that was it.

SHORT: If you were asked to give a young, aspiring politician some advice what would you tell him?

TYSINGER: Id tell him two things. One of them is youve got to build up an organization, a bunch of friends. You cannot do it by yourself. And the second thing is, as today, youve got to build up enough financial support from friends to win the office. I think its obscene the amount of money you have to spend for a House seat and a Senate seat today. I ran for three or four thousand dollars. The most I ever spent was sixty and I had opposition. Stan Collins I mean I ran against he ran against me was John Linder and John had more money than I did but I had the organization and the people got out and worked. That was thats how I beat John that time.

SHORT: Since you have retired you have still been active. In fact, youre on the Board of Natural Resources.

TYSINGER: That is correct. Governor put me asked assigned me the Board of Natural Resources.

SHORT: And youre now faced with a lot of problems. Water.

TYSINGER: (Laughter) Well, for two years theres been a study made and it was approved in the last legislation, a water plan for Georgia. If you recall, under Governor Maddox, he was trying to build six reservoirs in the state which if we had built them wed been ahead of the game. And you know we were sued by Florida and Alabama to stop that. There was one other one, too. Under Governor Maddox, when was governor, there was money set aside for a dam on the Flint River. Money was there, the plans were there, and Governor Carter came in, took a canoe ride down there and stopped it. If thatd been in there that would have also been a big source of water for Georgia. What the department is encouraging now is that for each county and each municipality if its large enough, to set aside a reservoir of their own water. And thats happening over the state. Were having smaller ones. But weve suffered a drought period. As a matter of fact, for three years weve had a serious drought condition and water restrictions. I think the Core of Engineers now I read this morning in a paper they now are saying that the muscle show down in Florida can survive on enough water going through. We dont have to pour all the damn water down there. So, I think were on the basis if we get some rain in north Georgia and fill the reservoirs back up I think well be all right. Wed still have to watch ourselves and how we use water.

SHORT: During your career did you every think of seeking a higher office?

TYSINGER: At one time and it was in frustration more than really looking at it. I felt I had my family to take care of and I didnt have time and the money to go for a higher office. But my mind you have to forgive me, my minds blanking [ph]. Pat Swindall. Pat Swindall was caught up in his last election

SHORT: He was a Congressman.

TYSINGER: He was a Congressman. He was caught up in some questionable activity. And he sat right there and we had [Indiscernible] in here one night and he lied like the right to us and at that time I was considering running against him because I didnt like what he was doing. But he sat there and as I said, lied like the dickens but they finally found him guilty; he lost the election to a nobody really.

SHORT: Ben Jones.

TYSINGER: Yeah, Ben Jones. But Jim wasn't owned anything except his television program .

SHORT: The Dukes of Hazard.

TYSINGER: Yeah, but Pat just was not honest and thats the one time I was seriously thinking about running against him.

SHORT: Well youve certainly had a great, great career.

TYSINGER: Well, as I said, again, I hope Ive done anything for Georgia, helped in any way, thats my gratification.

SHORT: And I want to thank you, Senator, on behalf of Young Harris College and the Richard B. Russell Library at the University of Georgia for being with us today.

TYSINGER: Well Im glad were trying to preserve some of history if Im part of it. (Laughter)

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