Interviews with George Ponder and Minnie Lou Robinson, 2008 November

l b l-'()\\ ~t
Ponder, George
Oral Histmy Interview
DEPARTMENT OF CULTURAL
AFFAIRS
EASTSIDE DOCUMENTATION PROJECT
Interviewee's Full Name: George Ponder
Interview's Address: 4719 Oakwood View Drive
Savannah, Georgia 31405
Interviewee's Neighborhood: LePageville
Interviewer: Charles J. Elmore
Date of Interview: November I 0, 2008
Length of Interview: 37 minutes, 46 seconds
Interview Medium: Video (Reginald Franklin - Videographer)
Transcriptionist: Samanthis Q. Smalls
Date of Staff Review: 19 Februa1y 2009 by Michelle L. Hunter
RF: I'm ready when you are.
CE: Alright. This is Charles J. Elmore interviewing Mr. George Ponder 4719 Oakwood View Drive,
Savannah, Georgia November 10, 2008 for the Eastside Documentation Project, City of Savannah.
Okay, we'll start now. Okay Mr. Ponder, tell me about your early family origins, as much as you like:
where, where you, where your parents came from, where your grandparents, how you got to Savannah.
And we want to talk about your experiences as you, you know, passed through the early part of your life
growing up in Savannah.
GP: Okay, I, I was urn, born in Screven County; Sylvania, Georgia. And uh, my, my brother, he left and,
Georgia, and come down here and he start working for the railroad.
CE: What was your brother name?
GP: Alvin Ponder.
CE: And which railroad did he work for?
GP: Atlantic Coastline.
CE: How much older he was than you?
GP: Oh, he was a man, 1 was a kid. 1 don't know what exactly.
CE: Okay.
GP: And uh, we was .. . he wanted his mother and the children, there were three of us. And he wanted us to
come to Savannah and live. And he, he lived out on LePageville.
Ponder, George
CE: And how old were the, how old were the ... ? And you lived in LePageville. Okay.
GP: I, I was about, I was about eight years old when I come to LePageville.
CE: Okay. What was you mother's name?
GP: Mary.
CE: Okay. Um hum.
GP: Anduh, the houses on LePageville had some little houses there that belonged to the railroad. And he
was working for the railroad. And uh, he lived in one but a lot of people worked for the railroad rented
those houses. You had a permanent job and you got a house. But they never lived in it. They just rented,
they sub-rented it out, leased it out. And he leased the house for us, for his mother, for us to stay in and
that's the ...
CE: That was your older brother?
GP: Yeah. Alvin.
CE: Okay.
GP: And uh, we lived there. And uh, did a little work, just all, you know worked, raised gardens and ...
CE: When you say "little work," what kind of work?
GP: I mean you know, farm, there's plenty land out there, we ...
CE: Okay.
GP: ... we worked out there, did a little farming and one stuff until I got... and my, my mother ...
CE: Until you got how old?
GP: Huh?
CE: ... You say you raised and farmed until you got?
GP: Oh, 'til I got about .. . well I wouldn't say farmed. We worked on gardens and little things, we didn't
plant no ...
CE: Um hum.
GP: ... we just worked enough to make stuff to live off and sell vegetables and stuff like that see?
CE: Um hum.
GP: And uh, 'til I got, l imagine about, 'till got about fourteen.
2
Ponder, George
CE: You lived in LePageville 'til fourteen?
GP: I lived, still lived on LePageville ...
CE: Okay.
GP: I still, still lived there and uh, then, my, my mother was working for the, the uh, superintendent of the
railroad.
CE: You know what his name was?
GP: Huh?
CE: Remember his name?
GP: No.
CE: Of the, that was ACL railroad?
GP: ACL, yeah.
CE: Okay.
GP: Atlantic Coastline.
CE: Okay, I got you.
GP: And uh, so I was, they got, he got this man down to the fe11ilizer mill there, uh, Southern State, to give
me a little job working 'round, picking up, doing things you know?
CE: Um huh.
GP: Cleaning up and working 'round there and I worked 'round that until, until I don't know how old I was.
I started working for the railroad, the railroad company. They hired me. They didn't want to hire me at
first but, you know, Mama worked for the superintendent so. This the woman that sign, you know ...
CE: Um hum. Okay, then?
GP: ... so, they give me a job working for the railroad. I was young I don't know how old I was. And um ...
CE: Still in your teens you think?
GP: Huh?
CE: Were you still a teenager you think?
GP: Yeah, I know I was still a teenager.
CE: Wow. You going good.
3
Ponder, George
GP: Yeah. And I worked for the railroad.
CE: I'm listening.
GP: I worked to the railroad until '43. I went in the Army.
CE: Okay, tell me about the Army.
GP: Well, I stayed, I stayed in the Army. I got out but I went back in, I didn't get... I got used to Army life
doing one thing, you know? And um, I got out and I didn't, I didn't come back home in time enough to
get my job with the railroad, see. You know, you get seniority, I had seniority then.
CE: Um hum.
GP: And um, you had ninety days you get back. In ninety days you get yolll·job back. If you didn't get back,
they give whoever had it, make them foreman . So I come back. That was later, I stayed 'round Atlantic
City. Got discharged in New Jersey, stayed 'round Atlantic City that, 'til my ninety days was up; gone
before I knowed it. So I got back they told me I didn't have to wony, I had, I was next out, they'd hired
me next out, you know.
CE: Um hum.
GP: But they couldn't place me so, I didn't get a job right away so I went back in the service. I went back in
and um, stayed three years and things didn 't look no better outside. I got out for, well, you couldn't stay
out over ninety days and go back in with your rank, if you had any. So, I went back in and stayed in. Uh,
WWII.
CE: So you fought in WWII?
GP: Yeah I was in .. .
CE: All of it?
GP: I was in WWII. Korea .
CE: In Korea. And tell me where else. Korea,
GP: Well WWII I was in uh, Europe. I really was in North Africa and Germany and France, you know, for
WWII.
CE: Um hum. Were you in any, any combat?
GP: Yeah, yeah WWli I was, I was in combat.
4
Ponder, George
CE: You ever kill a man?
GP: I don't know.
CE: But you were in combat?
GP: See, you fight different from they fight now, see. Oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah, I was in combat, I was in
combat. I was, I was in, I was in combat in um, you know; in combat zone. I was in, I was in um, I was
in food service see.
CE: Okay, but you worked in food service?
GP: I worked in, my duty was food service.
CE: So you really weren't an infantryman or nothing like that?
GP: No, no, no, no.
CE: Okay.
GP: I was in food service. I'm one of the blessed ones. I stayed twenty-nine years in, I served twenty-nine
years in, and about twenty-eight of them was all food service. Yeah.
CE: When did you get out of the Army?
GP: Got out the Army?
CE: Urn hum.
GP: In 1968.
CE: Wow.
GP: After Vietnam. Come out of Vietnam.
CE: You were in Vietnam too?
GP: Yeah; three of 'em.
CE: You were in Vietnam, Korea, and WWII?
GP: WWJI, Korea, and Vietnam.
CE: Good grief. Okay, what rank did you come out?
GP: E-7, Sergeant First Class, E-7.
CE: Wow. That's awesome. I'm amazed, you Reggie? Wow man.
GP: Yes sir.
5
Ponder, George
CE: U m, do you have any recollections of you father?
GP: My father died early, I don't know much about my father.
CE: Okay. Your mother name was Mary Ponder?
GP: Yeah.
CE: Okay. What about your older brother, what eventually happened to him?
GP: Well, he died. He died early 'cause he died in 1939.
CE: Okay. What about your other brothers and sisters?
GP: Well, my sister. ..
CE: What was her name?
GP: ... uh, Ophelia.
CE: Um hum. She still living?
GP: Um um, no, she dead. All of ' em dead.
CE: And what was your other brother's name, your younger brother?
GP: Jesse.
CE: He dead? Yeah, they all dead.
GP: Yeah, he well, he died two years ago last month.
CE: Was he a Savannah person too?
GP: Yeah. Yeah, all of'em.
CE: All of ' em lived in Savannah?
GP: Yeah he did. He had
CE: Okay, what. Did he have a, what did he do?
GP: Worked for the railroad.
CE: Okay. Coastline?
GP: Yeah.
CE: Okay. Alright. Tell me what it was like growing up in LePageville. What did people do?
GP: Well, worked for the railroad mostly. People that lived out there worked for the railroad. But a few
houses where they subbed out and had somebody look out for them, you know, 'tilum ...
6
Ponder, George
CE: Um hum.
GP: ... Paid some of they people got the house for 'em and looked out for 'em and they stayed there and got
other jobs and just paid sub, you know, rent for the houses. And um, the main owner worked for the
railroad and he rent the house, he permanent. That mean if you had a house, you were permanent. See,
there were a lot of people was permanent didn 't have a house, you know.
CE: So, well let me get this straight. The railroad people who were permanent could buy a house.
GP: No, you didn't buy the house.
CE: You leased it?
GP: You rent it. In other words, see it's a whole lot of people who come and wanted to work and they didn't
have no where to stay.
CE: Okay.
GP: So the railroad built so many houses out there and would let ' em have a house, see.
CE: Um hum.
GP: Let 'em have a house to work, you know.
CE: Um hum. l got you. They would lease the house to them, rent the house, so they would have somewhere
to stay.
GP: Yeah. They ...
CE: I got you.
GP: ... they rented you the house for so much you, and they took it out your salary, you know, out your pay.
And uh,
CE: You know, you remember how much it was?
GP: ... what?
CE: To rent the house?
GP: Oh, I don't know five, four, five, three or four or five dollars a month.
CE: Great day.
GP: Something like that.
7
Ponder, George
CE: Now your brother, your older brother, he had his own place and then he leased one too for you and your
mother and your brothers and sisters?
GP: Yeah. Until J start working for the railroad. J start working for the railroad and uh, at the end you know,
got a house. See they, they'd rent you, they, if you stayed so much they'd rent one house to two or three
people just to make ' em on, to put them on the seniority list. Then you got to work if they need you,
see? Once you on the seniority list, you got to.
CE: Then they can go off and get and rent they own house?
GP: Yeah.
CE: Urn hum. Okay. That's, I think we got enough. Urn, what did uh, where did you go to school? Where
did the kids in LePageville, where did ya' II go to school?
GP: Uh, up to Paulsen Street. There was a school on Paulsen Street in town. I went to Paulsen Street
CE: Um hum.
GP: School.
CE: How long did you go?
GP: I went to Paulsen Street School ' til J was in sixth grade.
CE: Do you remember any, any of your teachers?
GP: Huh? No, I don't remember.
CE: You don't remember? No. Okay. Did you continue school after that or did you drop out?
GP: We ll, I, I dropped out but I went back to school, went to, it was Beach High, it was Cuyler High School
then ...
CE: Okay.
GP: ... it wasn't Beach.
CE: Alright.
GP: I went to night school, took up night school you know .. .
CE: Um hum.
GP: .. . to get some more education. And I went there.
CE: Did you complete it?
8
Ponder, George
GP: Eighth grade. That was it, back then when I, back then, eighth grade was it; for black.
CE: Um, okay. Okay, let me get that. That's real important because that ...
GP: I just can't remember them years.
CE: Um hum, that's alright. You told me.
RF: You doing a good job.
GP: Urn hum. Excellent.
CE: Okay. Um, so the most of your time you spent in the Army. Yeah, you stationed all over the world
right?
GP: Um hum. Yeah. Oh yeah.
CE: Okay. Uh, what about uh, in terms of what you can remember about LePageville. What about where
black and white people lived in the area.
GP: Didn't no tnn, didn't no white people live in LePageville. All black people lived in LePageville.
Railroad hands, supposed to be, you know.
CE: Would, you would say mostly, mostly railroad hands then huh?
GP: Yeah, that's what they was.
CE: Urn hum.
GP: You know, or some of they people you know, brought 'em there. But they, they might've not been
working like I wasn't working there when I first come we wasn't working but we stayed there until
well, Mama got a job with the superintendent cooking, you know.
CE: Yeah, tun hum.
GP: And then that's what opened me to get started so early.
CE: Okay. Um, in terms of segregation and Civil Rights, that was kind ofuh, what was that like in your
time? Were people talking about Civil Rights when you were a kid in Savannah?
GP: No, not during, when I was no kid nobody talk about it. You didn't, you know. I, if they did I didn't, I, I
wasn't around, I wasn' t around. See I was out there in, in uh, they started all of that see once I got up
and they start to talk about ...
CE: You were in the service going all over the world by then.
9
Ponder, George
GP: Yeah.
CE: Yeah.
GP: Yeah and uh, see when I start remember hearing about Civil Rights, it was the time when Martin Luther
King got started.
CE: Um hum.
GP: See. And uh, yeah. See, in the Army you couldn't even, you couldn't even talk about no, see the Army
was segregated and uh, see you couldn't even talk about no, no kind of outfit, see? Like the NAACP and
different things, you couldn't even talk about it or carry no card, or nothing like that.
CE: That was off limits, huh?
GP: Um hum.
CE: Okay. Alright, all your travels; anything you want to tell me about all the time you were in the Army
that was, or just, that you just did your job and? Okay. What about uh, what did people do for fun? I
know, you already told me everybody around there worked at the railroad.
GP: Well, for, for fun people got together certain time and they had, most of the people hustled for liquor
and stuff and the houses and stuff like that, that was. And once in awhile you'll find a 'til place a black
person run the place, you know?
CE: Um hum.
GP: A business, uh, sociable place.
CE: Can you think of any of them?
GP: Not name, I can't, I can't think.
CE: Okay. You say they were run I ike a, maybe like a speakeasy? A liquor house?
GP: Yeah its, yeah, you know.
CE: Would it have music and stuff like?
GP: Yeah. Yeah had music [unclear].
CE: It was music and food?
GP: Yeah, that's about the idea.
CE: Um hum. So, and you had to pay for your food?
10
Ponder, George
GP: Liquor was, liquor was the black market. You bought that, you know.
CE: Um hum.
GP: You, you didn't get, I didn't even know, there might have been some but, I didn't know no licensed
liquor places or nothing. See, I didn't know no ...
CE: Did anybody black have like a store in the area? Like a, a confectionary or anything like that?
GP: Yeah they had some of them scattered, they had some of them. Yeah. They called 'em one thing and did
it all, did everything when night come. That you wasn't, you know, that you ...
CE: Okay, let me ask you about um, where did people go to church in LePageville?
GP: Well, we had a, we had a, a Baptist church out there; LePageville Baptist Church.
CE: Was it a big church?
GP: Hum?
CE: Was it a kind of small church?
GP: Well, it was, it was enough to hold the people out there and more. 'Cause they had, you know, people
different things just like now but not as much as churches they do now.
CE: Um hum.
GP: They had things and people uh, coming.
CE: Did you?
GP: Had different things in the church, yeah.
CE: Did you go to church there?
GP: Yeah.
CE: Were you baptized there?
GP: Yeah, I was baptized in the river. Yeah, we did, see at that time, wasn't no running water or nothing. We
was baptized down in the river, Savannah River.
CE: And of course, ya'll didn't have any, any, any kind of indoor water or toilets or nothing?
GP: Um um, no, no, no.
CE: You wouldn't happen to name, remember the name of any of the preachers there?
GP: Um um.
I I
Ponder, George
CE: And black people pretty much kept to themselves?
GP: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. You stayed to yourself. You stayed, you know white folk, white folk was mean to
black people back then man.
CE: Anything you might want to tell me that you didn't tell me or that I didn't ask you?
GP: No. I can't think, I can't think of too much now.
CE: But you told me a lot.
RF: Charles? Did you want to ask him about the cemetery?
CE: Yeah, LePageville Cemete1y. What can you tell me about it? Yeah, that's right, yeah. 'Cause you said
you had to fight to save it. Tell me about that.
GP: Well, it was, it was just a cemetery where we used to bury at. You know, people got buried, buried,
buried. And when I got out of the service, I didn't come right back here. But, when I come back here
and they were building and building buildings over there and had done start, done tore the church down
and moved out, its just out there and
CE: When, when did you come back though?
GP: I come back to, I come back to Savannah in uh, in uh, '79.
CE: Say they had torn down the church. And you say they were building over people's graves.
GP: Building all kind ofthings out there just like they got now, you know.
CE: Um hum
GP: Yeah.
CE: So what did you do then?
GP: And I was checking, I saw where they were doing it and I said, "Well that was the cemetery." And uh,
then I met Patricia Jenkins. She, they used to have a, a baseball park out there and she was something
with the baseball park, with the baseball team. And then I was telling her. And I went down there and I
met um, what's his name? I met uh, fellow, I know his name good, just can't call it. He was running
CE: Ellis Cook?
GP: Huh? No, no, no. This, this, this fellow was, was running a chain company.
CE: Uh.
12
Ponder, George
GP: And he took, he say, "Yeah, this the cemetery right behind." He told me right behind his building that
they were digging for something and they found grave bones and graveyard stuff: And uh, then looking
through there l found a couple of graves with tombstones on a couple and me and my brother went out
there and had the man to take pictures of the setting on the tombstones on the graves. And then uh,
Patricia helped me found out who owned the, who owned that land and stuff out there. And after talking
with his lawyer, him and his lawyer and arguing with him for a couple of years, he uh, come down and
made a deal with me about LePageville Cemetery. He said, now they done used some of it they say,
done used some of it. He said, "But I'll settle with you for what's left. lfyou sell, whether or not it's a
grave, if you sell, then that's what I'll settle for the rest of it."
CE: And they would settle. And what did they mean by settling with, with them?
GP: Just, he'll turn it over to us for the, as a cemetery and stop the law, stop a lawsuit.
CE: Let me get that?
GP: And I agreed it would be no lawsuit. He, it was uh 3.8 acres. 3.8 acres, so that's the cemete1y now.
CE: We were able, ya'll were able to reclaim 3.4 acres.
GP: Yeah.
CE: OfLePageville Cemete1y.
GP: Yeah.
CE: Okay. And your brother Alvin was the one that help you when he was alive? That was Alvin and you?
GP: Hum?
CE: That was you and your Alvin that did this?
GP: No, no, no; me and my bother Jesse, the one that died last year.
CE: Okay.
GP: Me and him, Jesse. Me and him.
CE: Any of your relatives buried there?
GP: Oh yeah, I can't even, I got about. My, my niece she wrote, had 'em wrote down. They got 'em
somewhere. It's about, I got about seven or eight people buried out there. But I don't know they names,
I done forgot all of that now.
13
Ponder, George
CE: Is your mother buried there?
GP: Yeah.
CE: I think ...
GP: Mother, brother, sister-in-law, and sisters.
CE: Wow. That's awesome. So what are the plans now for LePageville? I know, I know next Saturday, I'm
gonna go over there uh, where they're going to have this Boston Butt and barbeque rib sale and I'm
going to buy ...
GP: Right, right.
CE: ... going to buy something because I thought it was vety ironic that uh, Ms. Jenkins, you know, being
white and all like that, when you told her the situation would come and help ya'll, you know.
GP: Um hum.
CE: That was, I thought, very nice of her.
GP: Well see, just like uh, what his name? The, the white fellow, you called his name.
CE: Ellis Cook?
GP: Ellis Cook and them, see he was a alderman downtown and I went down there. I went downtown a
couple of times um, trying to get help. And then they, after they give us the place, everybody, they
wanted to tax, wanted us to pay tax and I had to fight the city and county to cut the tax, to stop paying
tax see. Then they stopped paying the tax and they wanted to, to pay the back tax a couple of years and I
had to fight, me and my brother fought 'em for that. So they dismissed it all from tax and the county did
finally.
CE: And finally the city and the county left ya'll, left the taxes alone?
GP: Yeah.
CE: Okay. Was uh, was Ellis Cook ever ...
GP; He was uh, he was uh alderman when I first went down there and statt. And then from time, as time
working with him and uh, and uh, Patricia Jenkins got him to work with us and a couple more of 'em
and um ...
CE: Okay. Alright.
14
Ponder, George
GP: And they statt working now I got sick. Cancer stopped me from driving and all. And uh, and I don't get
out that much. And they went on and Patricia Jenkins made me a promise that she was gone try to keep
it going. So now, it's just a cemetery. And we're trying to get a fence around, that's what I'm trying to
do, is get a fence around it. We get a fence around it, that's it, you know? It'll always, put it a sign up,
it'll always be there. You know people; I don't know what they might do with it. People tried to buy it,
tried to buy it from me and all but I can't sell it. The way it's drawed up, I can't sell it, it don't belong to
me. And then we were looking in there, I don't know what it mean, I could, I did, I did uh, you know.
CE: Um hum.
GP: It's, it's got this steel corporation.
CE: Okay. So the cemetery man is in the hands of a corporation.
GP: LePageville Memorial Cemetery, corporated. That's they way they made, that's the way he made out
the ...
CE: And land can never be sold. Okay. I think that'll do it. What do you think Reggie?
RF: That's good.
CE: Mr. Ponder I tell you, it's been fascinating.
GP: Yeah.
END
City of Sa vannah NOTES
1. Filmed on the da te indicated at the home of the resident.
2. Designa tions -- "GP" indicates George Ponder. "RF" indica tes Reginald Franklin, the Project
Yideographer. "CE" indicates Charles Elmore, the Project Historian.
3. Pg 13, CE erroneously notes the acreage a s 3.4 acres when GP clearly indicated the a creage
as 3.8 in his comments.
15
ti>VOI IJ tj
Robinson, Mitmie Lou
Om/ HisiOIJ' Interview
DE I'A RT J\li; NT O F Cli i.TUHA L
AFFA IRS
EASTSIDE DOCUMENTATION PROJECT
Interviewee's Full Name: Minnie Lou Robinson
Interview's Address: 605 E. 361
' Street
Savannah, Georgia 3140 I
Interviewee's Neighborhood: East Savannah
Interviewer: Charles J. Elmore
Date of Interview: November 11,2008
Length of Interview: 29 minutes, 33 seconds
Interview Medium: Video (Reginald Franklin - Videographer)
Transcriptionist: Samanthis Q. Smalls
Date of Staff Review: Reviewed and corrected by Michelle L. Hunter on 17 September 2009
CE: ... your mother and your father and then, then we'll go from there. Whenever he says he's
ready.
RF: I'm ready.
CE: Okay.
MR: I was born in Dover, Georgia. My mother name was Bessie, uh, Bowman Robinson. My
father's name was Jake Robinson.
RF: Just talk to him. Don't talk to me.
CE: Just talk to tne.
RF: I'm not even here.
MR: My father's name was Jake Robinson; and as, as far as I know, he was born in Dover, Georgia.
CE: Alright. Do you have any brothers and sisters?
MR: No.
CE: Okay.
MR: My sister, I had one sister and she's deceased. No brothers.
CE: Okay. When did you come to Savannah?
Robinson, Mi1mie Lou
MR: My father brought me down here to live with my mother when I was twelve years old. Brought
me down here 'cause he, they was living in Dover, Georgia. And my mother and father
separated and my mother came to Savmmah to her, to my grandmother, to her mother, which is
my grandmother.
CE: Um hum.
MR: Minnie .. .
CE: Alright, let's just stop a minute. You say your parents separated?
MR: Uh huh.
CE: And you stayed for avvhile with your daddy?
MR: Uh huh.
CE: Okay and he brought you to Savannah at twelve?
MR: Uhhuh.
CE: To your mother?
MR: Um hum. 1 was supposed to be coming on a vacation. But when I got here my mother took me
from my daddy. And kept me and wouldn't let me go back.
CE: Keep talking.
MR: And she was living out on LePageville and that's where I lived at until 1938. And then my, I
lived with my grandmother which was Mi1mie Bowman.
CE: Okay, you lived in LePageville from nineteen, literally, from 1936 to 1938?
MR: Yeah.
CE: Okay. Tell me about what life was like, was like in LePageville.
MR: Oh, it was fun time. We had, we had a grand time out there. Growing up, but every afternoon
we'd angry though 'cause we had to tote water from Hine Street clown to number ten on
President Street. We didn't have running water down there, we had to tote water; for cooking,
2
Robinson, Mitmie Lou
bathing, and washing. We had to put the wash water, we tote it and put it in barrels and tubs
and wash pots; every evening. But then we had to go to school.
CE: Okay. Um, how far did you have to carry water?
MR: From Hine Street on LePageville down to number ten also, What was that street name? It was,
uh, President Street.
CE: From Hine Street. How you spell Hine Street? You know?
MR: H.I.N.E.S
CE: Okay. In LePageville?
MR: Um hum.
CE: To, literally to, to where?
MR: Number ten on East President Street. But it was, what was that street name before they called it
President? Was the street, but I don't remember the name
CE: That was a good little distance wasn't it?
MR: Yeah, that was quite a shoot, shoot, long distance to us.
CE: Good grief. Okay, let's, go, now tell me about, you told me about your uh, grandmother.
MR: My grandmother, Minnie Bowman. Mitmie J. Bowman. She and my grandfather lived up there
at first 'cause my grandfather was a railroad worker.
CE: Okay. They lived in LePageville first?
MR: Yeah, they lived out there first.
CE: Um hum.
MR: See my grandfather was a railroad worker.
CE: What was his name?
MR: David Barn. But before they moved to LePageville they was living in Orangeburg, South
Carolina. And the railroad transferred him here. And give him this house . ..
3
Robinson, Minnie Lou
CE: Okay.
MR: ... on LePageville.
CE: What, what railroad did he work for?
MR: Um.
CE: Coastline?
MR: Coastline Railroad. Coastline Railroad that's, and they transferred him from Orangeburg, South
Carolina down here to Savannah and set him up on LePageville. And from what I can
understand from them, when they came here, the church that, that we, was given to us ...
CE: Um hum.
MR: ... was a Methodist church at first.
CE: The church in LePageville was Methodist at first?
MR: Yeah, was a Methodist church. Because out there in that community there was Methodists and
Baptists living out, working for the railroad and living in that section.
CE: All black right?
MR: Uh huh. And my grandmother, she told me that uh, when they first went out there, see my
grandmother and grandfather was Baptist. And when they first went out there the Methodists
would hold their services twice a month and then the Baptists would hold their services twice a
month. And then eventually, they merged into one, to a Baptist church.
CE: Okay, let me get that point. Boy that's important.
MR: He vvrite faster than a typewriter.
CE: Okay, merged into a Baptist church by when?
MR: That was in oh, it, Lord I had the history in my hand.
CE: We can stop recording until you go find it.
[brief break in video]
4
Robinson, Minnie Lou
MR: Um, it was tore down LePageville ...
CE: Um hum.
MR: ... Baptist Church. The church was given to us by Mr. R.F., F.D. Delaney.
CE: Um hum.
MR: In eighteen, 1986.
CE; Umhum.
MR: I believe it \Vas. I think it was 1986.
CE: Okay, how, okay, okay.
MR: All of that is in there.
CE: Alright. We are, we going, we got,
MR: And after
CE: I got a form that I'm going to fill out.
MR: Um hum.
CE: Saying that I have this document and that it, you know, will be returned to you.
MR: Okay.
CE: This is really important. Wow. Man it's a blessing to do this you know. This a blessing.
MR: Well good.
CE: Ya ' ll think I'm crazy but I mean.
MR: I hope, I hope it'll be a blessing to our church 'cause see when we tore down that church, when
the church was given to us ...
CE: Um hum.
MR: ... it was given because they didn't want to tear it down. It was given to us and we had
permission to move it. So at first we were thinking about reestablishing, moving it from
LePageville and setting it up, setting it up in East Savannah.
5
Robinson, Mitmie Lou
CE: Wow.
MR: And they couldn't find a lot in East, in East Savmmah.
CE: Um hum.
MR: So, the Reverend um, Peter Holmes ...
CE: Umhum.
MR: .. . give us a lot on West fitly, 56111 Street.
CE: Right.
MR: You know Peter Holmes.
CE: Yeah, I know that church is still there. I drove right cross it after church.
MR: Uh huh. And uh, he give us a lot out there on his property. But then when we checked into
having the church rolled instead of tearing it down, the price was too high. We couldn't,
couldn't afford to pay the price for the rolling and then there was too much handicap vvith the
wiring; the streetlights and the wiring and what not. So then, that's when we set out then to
buy, to find, to find a lot. We tried on Harmon and uh, Anderson; we couldn' t afford that. And
my sister was working forum, the Nathan Tenenbaum, where those, Chatham Steel over there.
CE: Okay, what I'm going to put down here is that, hold on for a minute let me write ...
[brief break in video]
CE: In the time you lived in LePageville, um, you say about fun, what did ya'll do for fun?
MR: What we did for fun?
CE: Um hum; as children.
MR: Hide-and-Go Seek. Hide-and-Go Seek. That's the mostest thing we did, play Hide-and-Go
Seek. And, and, and, and the younger, the young, the younger ones can tell you more than that.
CE: Alright. And um, what did the people do for fun? The adults?
6
Robinson, Minnie Lou
MR: The adults they would have parties and, what they was, fish fries. What they call it, rent
money? And they would get together and . ..
RR: (whispering) Tell about Captain Sam's boat rides.
MR: Huh?
CE: No. I don't want you talking when your mama talk. You'll have your time. You tell me, you
tell me. You don't need her.
MR: (laughing) She, she, she helping me out.
CE: No, she ain't going to help you out. Fish fries, what else did they sell? Did they have any kind
of illegal whiskey or anything going on?
MR: Oh honey. Let me tell you 'bout that. They had the home brew and the white lightning. That's
what they used to call it, white lightning. I ain't hear nothing, you didn't hear so much about
beer.
CE: Um hum.
MR: Home brew. And people would come all the way from the city out there to buy home brew
from Mr. Smith. And then they would go down there by the Southern State Fertilizer Company
and go in the swimming hole.
CE: Wait a minute.
MR: If not that, then they'd get all, get a carload and go out to uh, out to Gunney's ...
CE: Um hum.
MR: and, and the Treetop Inn. I remember that.
CE: Alright. The, the adults would go where now? To the swimming?
MR: To the swimming hole clown behind, 'round there by Southern State. That used to be the
baptism pool too. Down there by Southern State, it was a big place down there. Yeah, that's
where, that's where they vvould go swimming at. And if not that, then they would go down to
7
Robinson, Mitmie Lou
the Deptford, go down there in Deptford. It was someplace to go down there in Deptford and,
and play. I don't know.
CE: And also the baptism pool for LePageville?
MR: Yeah, it was. That's where I got baptized at. Got baptized in that pool and they tell me there
was a snake just a swimming around in that pool but thank God I didn't see him. 'Cause if I
would've saw him, it wouldn't have been no baptism that day. No sir.
CE: When did you get baptized?
MR: 1945.
CE: The year I was born. Okay. Now, your grandfather, was he a railroad man too?
MR: Yeah. He was a railroad man. My grandfather was a railroad man. That's how, that's how he
got to Savannah.
CE: I think you told me that. Yeah. Was your daddy, your daddy was a railroad man too?
MR: No.
CE: Okay. Um, what are some of your most vivid recollections of just the neighborhood in
LePageville? How people felt about each other, did they help each other?
MR: It was a close knit uh, neighborhood. If you could do something for someone, you did it. There
was no, to my, to my recollection that everybody was just friendly out there. And, and, and, and
you know the old adults used to chastise the children out there.
CE: Um hum.
MR: When they doing wrong. And if them old folks see you doing something wrong and go tell your
mama and you say you didn't do it, you still gone get a whipping. The old folks gone whip you
before you get home and then when you get home and say you didn't do it, you gone get
another whipping.
CE: Umhum.
8
Robinson, Minnie Lou
MR: So that's the kinda, uh, uh, environment LePageville was. People looked out for each other.
They didn't uh, they didn't, there was no integration out there between them.
CE: Okay.
MR: If they could help, they would help.
CE: In terms of uh, LePageville was all black wasn't it?
MR: Yeah.
CE: There were no blacks, no blacks living in LePageville? No whites?
MR: No whites, no.
CE: Okay.
MR: The whites lived on the other side of Wilshire Road. Over there in, what's that apartment was
over there? Oak, Oakview.
CE: Okay.
MR: Was on the other side of, but no blacks was on LePageville. The only blacks that I can
remember, can recall being out there on LePageville was the Price's and they was behind
CE: Um hum.
MR: the cemetery, like you going toward um, the old Standard Oil Company. Those the only one's
CE: Okay. The Prices' were white?
MR: Yeah, they was white. And they lived, they lived out there but you never did see them.
CE: Who lived behind LePageville Cemetery?
MR: Yeah.
CE: Are any of your relatives buried in LePageville?
MR: My mother out there. My mother out there and I got a first cousin out there.
CE: You know what your first cousin name?
MR: My first cousin name is uh, Melvin Moore.
9
Robinson, Minnie Lou
CE: Okay. Anything else? What was the, what was the rent ya'II paid, rent you paid?
MR: As far as I can remember, as much as I can remember the highest rent you paid out there was
$7 a month. You had them $7 fish, $7 Saturday night fish fries, those that didn't have the
money. Have them $7 fish fries and sell all that home brew and that white lightning. And get
that, pay that $7 rent, a month rent. That's as high as I remember. I don't think they even, I
don't think it ever got up to $10. (talking to someone off screen) Bring him David. You tired of
him? Bring him here.
CE: They sell chicken, chicken dinners too? Did they sell chicken too?
MR: Yeah.
CE: How 'bout chittlings?
MR: Chittlings? Oh, that was the, that was the pot. The chittlings and the chicken and the um, what
you call that other thing? Um, the hogmaw.
CE: Um hum.
MR: All them kind of stuff, all that kind of stuff. It was good eating, it was good eating then.
CE: Okay.
MR: Go in there, go out there in that garden and crop them collard greens. And have all that kind of,
and 'specially them chittlings.
CE: I still eat 'em.
MR: Huh?
CE: Love 'em. Okay, at these house parties, would they have music?
MR: Yeah with the, with the, with the record player.
CE: Okay.
MR: They didn't even have television, they had record players. You know, the one's you turn?
CE: Um hum.
10
Robinson, Minnie Lou
MR: Some of 'em had that.
CE: Really had Victrolas right?
MR: Yeah, Victrolas. That's what you call 'em? Victrolas?
CE: Umhum.
MR: Yeah. Some, some of, some peoples had Victrolas. And the ones that had the Victrolas, that's
where the party go on. And on Palm Sunday ...
CE: Um hum.
MR: ... everybody from everywhere came out there on Palm Sunday. Walk down that railroad track
to get on LePageville. LePageville was the stumping ground. Everybody having fun from house
to house, all clay long; especially drinking that home brew. But you know, there was very
seldom a fight on LePageville, out there. The only fighting that I can remember out there was
with that one Palm Sunday. Happy, I don't know whether you remember that or not. Happen a
group, another group of boys from the Westside .. .
CE: Umhum.
MR: ... came out there and they started that big fight. Coming clown President, coming clown the
railroad track 'cause there wasn't, wasn't no road cut through there that one time. You had to
walk clown the railroad track from, from Randolph Street all the way to LePageville or come
'round that back street clown by the ...
CE: Umhum.
MR: ... by the uh, Southern Light.
CE: You say Westside boys came to LePageville?
MR: Yeah. And that's when ...
CE: Okay. Boy, that's, that's vivid. You know, it reminds you ofuh, like Porgie and Besse, Catfish
Rovv.
II
Robinson, Minnie Lou
MR: Yeah.
RF: Um hum.
CE: Life was like that for real in the South for us black folks.
RF: Umhum.
MR: Yeah.
CE: And now you know, people look at that and think it wasn't. But it was like that.
MR: Yeah it was like that. It, it, it, it um, that, that's the only fight that I can remember there .. .
CE: Okay.
MR: . .. 'cause they had, they had county, city police, everything, everybody out there.
CE: What were, what were the relationships like between, you had much interface or any, any, too
much interaction with whites?
MR: No.
CE: Okay.
MR: We didn't have none of that.
CE: Alright. And most, where did most of the men work? Just on the railroad?
MR: Most of the mens worked to the Southern State Fertilizer Company.
CE: Or the railroad?
MR: No, the Southern State Fertilizer Company or the Standard Oil Company down there. It was the
Southern States and the Standard Oil Company. And a lot of the mens worked at the Standard
Oil Company. But the majority of them lived on LePageville worked at The Southern State
Fertilizer Company.
CE: Okay. Were some railroad men?
MR: Yeah. Some of 'em were still railroad 'cause my grandfather was, worked on the railroad until
he passed. And he passed in nineteen, 1936.
12
Robinson, Minnie Lou
CE: Okay. When you first got there?
MR: No. No, no, not when I first got there. It was '36, '37.
CE: Okay.
MR: My grandfather passed in '37 and my mother passed in '38.
CE: Okay.
MR: And then, that's when we, my grandmother moved from out there in '38.
CE: Alright. Granddaddy 193 7 and your mom?
MR: '38.
CE: Okay, '38. After which you and grandma moved?
MR: Yeah. Into the city. I remember right, when my grandma was over there on 5th Street
CE: Fifth Street? I'll be James Brown. Right down the street from 6th Street.
MR: Yeah.
CE: 'Cause that's where, my wife and I lived on 6th Street when we first got married.
MR: Well my, my, my
CE: That's 5th Street offWheaton?
MR: Yeah.
CE: I'll be.
MR: And then she moved from there, she moved from there clown on, clown there in Hitch Village,
down there where Hitch Village is now; down there on Jackson Street. And we lived on
Jackson Street awhile. And what happened? I'm moved on Clifford Street? I think they, I don't
know. But we lived down there in the Fort, they used to call it the Old Fort.
CE: Okay. You lived in the Fort, right.
MR: We lived down there in the Fort until 1942 I believe it was; '42 or 43. Anyway, when they start
tearing down that project down there, then that's when we moved from down there.
13
Robinson, Mitmie Lou
CE: Okay.
MR: Then they was fixin' to build uh, Fred Wessel.
CE: Okay.
MR: That's when we moved from clown there.
CE: Okay, moved when they began ...
MR: 'Cause when they start to tearing clown that project down there, we was living on Randolph
Street then; right in front of New Hope Baptist Church. And that, I can't recall what year that
was.
CE: Okay. Let me, let me ask you something else.
RF: Hold for just. ..
[brief break in video]
CE: When you were in LePageville, school, schools. Where did everybody, where did the black
kids go to school?
MR: Thunderbolt; right where Savannah State College at now. Right, right where Savannah State
College is built.
CE: Okay. Did, did you go to the laboratory school?
MR: No, it was, it was, it wasn't but one school down there.
CE: Okay. You remember the name of it?
MR: Thunderbolt Elementary School.
CE: Was it on the campus of Savannah State?
MR: No, it wasn' t on the campus.
CE: Oh, okay.
MR: It wasn' t, it wasn't no Savannah State clown there then. It wasn't nothing down there but, but
uh ...
14
Robinson, Minnie Lou
CE: Okay.
MR: ... Thunderbolt Elementary School.
CE: What, what uh, what grades did it go to?
MR: Seventh.
CE: Grades one to seven?
MR: I, I went down there to seventh but it went higher than that. See, after we moved into the city,
then they, then I was transferred. I think it went up to the 12th grade. I think it went up to the
12th grade.
CE: Okay.
MR: I'm not too sure.
CE: Alright. And after, after ya'll moved from LePageville, you went there one year?
MR: No, I went there from the time I was out living on LePageville until we moved.
CE: First to seventh. 'Cause all the people told me they went to Powell Lab School on the campus
of Savannah State.
MR: Oh. I don't know. All I, all I know is that it wasn' t but one school down there that I know of
and that was called the Thunderbolt ...
CE: Okay.
MR: Elementary School.
CE: Alright. So first through seventh grade you went there. And after seventh grade, did you
continue to go to school.
MR: No. I think that's when I dropped out of school. Because I was supposed to enroll in um, the
Paulsen Street School.
CE: Um hum.
15
Robinson, Minnie Lou
MR: But when I went to Paulsen Street School, they was full and East Broad Street was fu ll. And I
was supposed to go the next year, but the next year didn't never come.
CE: Okay. Okay, what did you do then? After you got out, after you didn't school you were about?
What did you do after, after seventh grade? What did you do?
MR: Went, went to work.
CE: Okay.
MR: Went to work with my grandmother, I used to go to work with my grandmother. And then, I
got a job of my own, start taking care of myself. And the first family that I worked for was the
Wises' . That's where my grandmother was working. And she would take me to work with her.
CE: You talking ' bout them movie people?
MR: Yeah.
CE: Work for Albert Wise and them?
MR: Uh huh. My grandmother worked for them.
CE: Okay. So you got you a job on your own. Who did you ... ?
MR: I worked to the, the Chatham ... what the school up there? Up there on Oglethorpe and uh ..
CE: Chatham Academy?
MR: Up there on Oglethorpe and Bull. What's the name of that school up there?
CE: Chatham Academy.
RR: That's where the Board of Education is now.
CE: Chatham Academy.
RR: That one.
CE: Chatham Academy.
16
Robinson, Minnie Lou
MR: Chatham, Chatham, it wasn't Chatham Academy, Academy then it's Chatham Academy now.
But it was Chatham Junior High? 'Cause my aunt, my aunt was working up there and I got a
job working up there in the cafeteria.
CE: Okay. How, vvhen did you go there to work?
MR: I can't remember what year that was. But I knew I was, I had to go to work. The first job I had
was working at the cafeteria on Bull Street with the Mazo's. That's when uh, when uh, used to,
the, the train used to run from Randolph Street to Tybee. And the Mazo's had a cafeteria there
on, on Bull Street between State and Ogle, isn't that where the Post Office.
CE: Mazo, how you spell that name?
MR: M.A.Z.O. I worked there, worked with them for a short period of time. And that's when my
aunt got this job to the school, working in the, got this job for me to the, to the school, to start
working at the school in the cafeteria. And I stayed there until, I don't know how many years I
stayed there.
CE: Okay.
MR: But then the next job I had, I had a job working for
CE: You worked in a school cafeteria you say?
MR: Uhhuh.
CE: Okay.
MR: Serving lunch, getting the lunch ready.
CE: Okay. Uh .. .
MR: I had to . . .
CE: ... what job did you spend the longest time with?
MR: The job I'm on now.
CE: What job is that?
17
Robinson, Minnie Lou
MR: Working for the Mazo's?
CE: You still working with them?!
MR: I, I started with the Mazo's and then I left the Mazo's and then as I got older,
CE: Umhum.
MR: I worked for the uh, I worked for the uh, oh I can' t call the people's name now. I worked for
them.
CE: Umhum.
MR: Oh, oh goodness. It'll come to me.
CE: Don't worry about that. But basically, you worked at Chatham Junior High, the cafeteria.
MR: Yeah.
CE: Then you worked for the Mazo family's cafeteria.
MR: Yeah.
CE: Okay. On Randolph, from Randolph, on Randolph Street, okay.
MR: That's where I lived at, on Randolph Street. The Mazo kitch, the Mazo cafeteria was uh, on
Bull Street.
CE: Okay. On Bull Street.
MR: It's two something; 220, I think the address is 220.
CE: Um hum.
MR: And I didn't work there but just a short period of time. The longest period of time I worked was
at the school and the job I'm on now.
CE: Okay. And how long you worked at the school? You think.
MR: I don't know.
CE: Okay. But how long you been working for the Mazo's you think?
MR: The job I'm on?
18
Robinson, Minnie Lou
CE: Yeah.
MR: Fifty, 52 years.
CE: Okay. Worked. What do you do for a living?
MR: Cook. I was, in the begitUling I was a housekeeper.
CE: Fifty-two years.
MR: Umhum.
CE: And you still working?
MR: Um hum.
CE: You off today?
MR: Um hum. I don't work but three days, a couple of hours. Mondays, Wednesdays, and
Thursdays, home Tuesdays and Fridays.
CE: Okay. Only for a couple of hours.
MR: Um hum.
CE: Monday,
MR: Wednesdays and Thursdays.
CE: Okay. That's remarkable. Now, let's see, we already said that. Did you, vvere you ever involved
in any Civil Rights activities in your lifetime.
MR: Um, um.
CE: Okay. Okay, let's see. I think you told me, and you told me, you told me about everything else:
'bout what the people did for fun and amusements. 'Cause I'm really interested in LePageville.
MR: Umhum.
CE: I guess, anything you want to tell me that you, you think I ought to know about your life in
LePageville?
MR: Well I think you got it all right there.
19
Robinson, Mitmie Lou
CE: Yeah, I believe so. That was great.
END
City of Savannah NOTES
l. Footage is unedited and presented in the form that it was recorded. Breaks represented
pauses or c hanges in taping medium.
2. Filmed on the dale indicated a t the home of !he resident.
3. Designations-- "MR" indicates Minnie Robinson. "RR" indicates Ruthie Rawlerson. "RF" indicates
Reginald Franklin. the Projecf Videographer. "CE" indicates Charles Elmore. the Project
Historian.
20