Transcript of an oral history interview with Thelma Welch Hodges

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Hodges, Thelma Welch
EASTSIDE DOCUMENTATION PROJECT
Thelma Welch Hodges
I Peachtree Drive, Savannah Commons, Apartment 321
Savamwh, Georgia 31419
Eastern Savannah/Southeastern Shipyards
Charles J. Elmore
February 12, 2009
I hour, 4 minutes, 23 seconds
Video (Reginald Franklin- Videographer)
Samanthis Q. Smalls
September 8, 2009 by MLH
CE: This is Charles J. Elmore in an interview with Mrs. Thelma Welch Hodges, I Peachtree Drive,
Savannah Commons, Apartment 321 Savannah, Georgia, 31419 for the Eastside
Documentation Project, City of Savannah. Now we'll start Ms. uh, Hodges. Just tell me uh,
about your early family origins.
TWH: Well, we moved to 3211d in the 1200 block when I was five. And, and uh, that's where we
worked and where we were married until my mother passed away. Well, and my father first. It
was fun. We had dirt streets. The houses were built like they always do in a project. Um, every
other block in the, on the street you know. And then they went back and filled those in later
with houses. As the city grew they paved the streets. And we had what we called the Indian
Mound down on Anderson and Henry and they branched on over to 31st. But they tore it down.
They didn't know and they, the city just needed the dirt and tore it down. But, everything was
easy going. On the telephone poles we had a, at the end of the block, every two blocks, was a
fire plug, I mean a box, like this (making square shape with her hands). And also police box
and a post office box on the corner. And every, you just if you needed, you had a fire, just pull
that alarm. You want the police, you pull that alarm. And, and then of course, for postmen, put
his overload in the bottom and then, you should post mail any time you want 'cause you only
Hodges, Thelma Welch
had the post office downtown on the square. And everybody walked two blocks to Waters
Avenue to catch the bus, trolley with the thing, the electric pull down the road. And the
motorman, the conductor on there, they turn that, you take, this man would walk around and
pull it that side so they could go back uptown. So the, it ended about Victory Drive of 3i11 and
then from then on. But when we moved there, Wolfs Florist was there and they had cabins for
the people that worked. And it went to 35111 Street. And of course those were those were torn
down later and big houses ...
CE: Okay. Let me stop you for a second. You say Wolfs Florists ...
TWH: Yeah.
CE: was located where now?
TWH: Anderson and Ott. Ott Street.
CE: Umhum.
TWH: And along Waters Avenue there were cabins where the workers lived. They didn't build them.
They were there from the time Savannah had been started. I don't know when they were built
but they were cabins.
CE: Umhum.
TWH: And, and they were torn down later of course to make progress for something else.
CE: The cabins were on Waters Avenue?
TWH: Yeah.
CE: Okay.
TWH: Waters Avenue.
CE: Umhum.
TWH: And, and the, they turn around and come back.
CE: Umhum.
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Hodges, Thelma Welch
TWH: Um, Daffin Park wasn't that of course at that time.
CE: I want you to tell me you know ...
TWH: Huh?
CE: the year you were born in.
TWH: 1908, January the fifteenth .
CE: Um hum.
TWH: I'm 101. I'm not getting any new teeth though except from the dentists.
CE: What do you recollect about your early family life?
TWH: We had a good one. My daddy had a ...
CE: Tell me your dad and mom's name if you don't mind.
TWH: Alright. George Randolph Patterson was my father and Alice Sauls, course, Patterson was my
mother.
CE: Alice Sauls?
TWH: S.A.U.L.S. Her family came from South Carolina.
CE: Alice Sauls Patterson.
TWH: Um hum. My father had been here, excuse me, his ancestor um, oh I understand you can trace
yours all the way back.
CE: Yep. To about 1870, '80.
TWH: Isn't that thrilling. I, we can go back too. We can beat you.
CE: Yeah, yeah your son told me. Go on and tell me. I'm, shoot, I'm listening.
TWH: Yeah, we can get back .. .
CE: I'm in heaven.
TWH: But we came, everybody had to come sign up here from England with the King. That they gone
colonize Virginia.
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Hodges, Thelma Welch
CE: Um hum.
TWH: They clone missed Virginia and hit Plymouth you know; the Mayflower. But um, anyway, uh, I
get so thrilled when people take time enough to find out where they came from.
CE: Yeah, of course.
TWH: I like that. And uh, that's about, oh my clad, mom, I told you that. And I had three sisters;
everybody's gone now but me. And, and then of course my son, I had one son and you see the
results of that. Yeah he's, right now, in deep mourning but can' t help that. Where there's life
there's gonna be the opposite.
CE: Yeah. God knows.
TWI-1: And the churches, you asked about that.
CE: Well tell me 'bout school. What, what did ...
TWH: Waters Avenue
CE: Okay.
TWH: . .. but it wasn't built then.
CE: Okay.
TWH: We had to walk to Anderson Street School.
CE: Okay.
TWH: Anderson and Price and Habersham. And then there was built the next year, 'cause see I had to
get six. You had to learn to, the alphabet, count to a hundred, and of course you brought your
own lunch. You got hungry and ate it before lunch time, tough luck buddy; you didn't have
anything to eat. I don't remember walking. I do from junior high to 35111• It was a brand new
school when we went there. Anclum ...
CE: Okay, where did you go to junior high?
TWH: Thirty, thirty-fifth. Richard Arnold, it was, it was called Thirty-fifth .
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Hodges, Thelma Welch
CE: To Thirty-fifth ...
TWH: And Benedictine was right across from us.
CE: Umhum.
TWH: And we liked that with all the boys over there. It was, oh, it was fun waving at the boys. And
then um, we went to high school but we had to ride the bus. Took too long to walk uptown. But
we walked every Saturday to go to the movies.
CE: What you say, rode to, rode to Savannah High?
TWH: Yeah, every morning um, and then we did different things in the afternoon. We didn't come
straight back. I always had something to do with the sports or we went to the YWCA. But we
walked home, I know that. But we were halfway almost when we got to Forsyth Park. That
wasn't too bad.
CE: Okay, in the afternoon you say ya'll had sports and often you went to the YWCA?
TWH: Yeah, we went to the YW. Before there ...
CE: Um hum.
TWH: junior YW girls. We had a good time.
CE: Alright, tell me a little bit about uh, the uh, career you had .. .
TWH: My mama?
CE: . .. at Savannah High.
TWH: Oh, oh well,
CE: Tell me about school. Tell me about, tell me about, what, what did ya'll do in, in middle .. .
TWH: Well, we were uptown. You know the old building that's at Oglethorpe and Bull? Across from
Independent Presbyterian?
CE: Yeah.
TWH: Alright.
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Hodges, Thelma Welch
CE: That's middle, you went to junior high there right?
TWH: No, high school.
CE: Oh, okay.
TWH: There was junior high in half of it, but we were high school. I went to Thirty-fifth ...
CE: Okay.
TWH: . .. for junior high.
CE: What's the, let me get this straight in my mind.
TWH: Alright.
CE: Was the old, I know it's currently now the Board of Education. It was called, what it was called
just the Savannah High School then?
TWH: Yep. Always it's been Savannah High School. And the other half of it, it was three stories. And
we were in the front part. And the, the elementary, Chatham Academy, was at the back part
where the school kids. But we didn't, little ones, but we didn't see them. We had three stories,
our building, and we had to walk up and down the steps.
CE: Alright. Now you say the, the, the junior high school. ..
TWH: That was called Chatham.
CE: ... was in the back?
TWH: But these were grammar school kids in those days.
CE: Um hum.
TWH: I don't where Chatham, then, Thad can tell you more about...
CE: Alright. You say that was in the rear of the building though?
TWH: Yeah.
CE: Okay, ya'll were in the front?
TWH: On Drayton Street side. Drayton Street side was uh, that.
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Hodges, Thelma Welch
CE: Um hum.
TWH: But \Ve faced Bull. You know the old joke about Savannah? It's built on a bluff and its main
street is Bull. So, so Savannah must be some city.
CE: Well this, tllis is very important because if you don't tell me this, it will be lost for a long time.
TWH: You know what. The, when Juana boat came in, I don't know where it came from, but all the
windows up, no air condition you know or anything. Oh, it was just, I was, Juana, I think they
were, I don't know where they got it from. But the fertilizer, oh, it was awful.
CE: Tell me, your son was telling me about uh, Thad was telling me about you were quite active in
high school. Were you a cheerleader? Tell me about that.
TWH: Yeah, well I was the first girl, we weren't gone be outdone. So we got the girls together and
formed High's Howling Hundred, HHH, High's Howling Hundred.
CE: Wait a minute, let me get this.
TWH: And
CE: You giving me, you got me going so hard here. "We got the girls together at Savannah High
TWH: I participated
CE: and formed," attempted to form what now?
TWH: Uh, HHH.
CE: Umhum.
TWH: High's Howling Hundred.
CE: High's?
TWH: We did have, Howling. Howl. You know how you holler, howling.
CE: Oh. Howling.
TWH: Yeah.
CE: High's Howling Hundred. Wow.
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Hodges, Thelma Welch
TWH: High's Howling Hundred.
CE: Ohman.
TW: And the High stood for Savmmah High. Everybody called The High.
CE: Umhum.
TW: It was the only one, one ,uh
TWH: We had, 'course, Drum and Bugle Corp and the boys dressed in white. But everybody
furnished their own things in those days. And we didn't get lunchrooms in high school until our
senior year and then there were sandwiches but they weren't wrapped, for a nickel. And
sometimes you'd get the top and bottom sandwich right under it. You stick your hand right in
there and get the sandwich. [Inaudible] was our first luncluoom.
CE: Got sandwich at lunch for five cents. Great day. What year was this?
TWH: Oh, not remembering now. Twenty-four, twenty-five? Twenty-five, twenty-six, twenty-six,
twenty-seven, I graduated in twenty-seven. Twenty-five, 1925. And the year before when his
father went, couple of years before um, Johnny Mercer was in high school with that group. And
CE: Okay, so Jolmny Mercer
TWH: Jolumy Mercer
CE: went to high school with your husband?
TWH: Uhhuh.
CE: Wow.
TWH: And, and uh, they, Thad said, when I got there, "Did you see Jolumy?" And I said, "Jolumy
who?" "Johnny Mercer." I say, "No." Said, "Well they gone send him off next year to a
finishing school in Massachusetts." So he got finished off up there. He never graduated
CE: Okay, what was your husband's name?
TWH: Thad. It was Thad Welch. This is a junior.
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Hodges, Thelma Welch
CE: Okay, Thad Welch, Sr.
TWH: But his name was Thad Welch.
CE: Okay.
TWH: And he played football, basketball, and baseball. And uh, he played, was a great athlete. We
had the old auditorium where the
CE: Umhum.
TWH: Civic Center is.
CE: Umhum.
TWH: We went there for the basketball games. And we graduated from high school there 'cause we
didn't have a auditorium at the old high school. And uh, Commercial were over in the
Presbyterian Sunday school right across the street.
CE: Okay, hold on just a second. Let me get this, hold on just a second. I'm trying to catch up. You
played basketball and graduated in the old municipal auditorium?
TWH: Yeah. And um, 'course played baseball in the big park. And swimming, we did that in theY
pool and Daffin Park to swim. And soccer we played in the Forsyth Park. We had, we had
some fun. We ate anything too; we didn't fuss about anything. We ate it.
CE: You made a point I was missing there.
TWH: What?
CE: Um, you were telling me about um,
TWH: The sandwiches?
CE: No. It was after you told me about when your husband played football, basketball, and baseball.
TWH: And basketball.
CE: And you said basketball they played in the old municipal auditorium. Then you were telling me
something else and I missed the point.
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Hodges, Thelma Welch
TWH: Well, I know the Jewish Education Alliance was in back of St. Jolm's. I think it's just a renting
place now 'fore they moved there way out on Abercorn.
CE: No, you were telling me that. ..
TWH: Well, it was ...
CE: Commercial School was in the old ...
TWH: No.
CE: Presbyterian
TWH: Yeah. In the Sunday school ...
CE: Alright.
TWH: ... building.
CE: Commercial ...
TWH: Sunday school building, right across from the old high school. The building now that's a office.
CE: Um hum.
TWH: And the, Commercial were put there.
CE: Okay.
TWH: Because it wasn't, junior high was Thirty-fifth and junior high was Chatham; the population
was growing.
CE: That's Independent Presbyterian Sunday school building?
TWH: That was, well, it was when I was in high school so it had to be um,
CE: Umhum.
TWH: '25, '26, and '27. I know they were meeting there because they'd go across the street. We, we
were in the other building. Oh, and I took shop 'cause I wanted to be with the boys.
CE: Wait a minute. Don't let me miss that.
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Hodges, Thelma Welch
TWH: And I got a, I got pictures; I don't know where they are now. But uh, it was in the, it's in the
bluejacket. And I went to be with the boys and Mr. East made me do all my work myself. I just
didn't do, didn't see 'em half the time I was so busy doing shop.
CE: Mr. East made you work by yourself?
TWH: Yeah. Carried every piece of lumber and sawed it. But, you don't need to put this in. Let me
know when I can tell you something.
CE: Alright.
TW: You tell him. He doesn't have to, doesn't have to record it.
TWH: No, I'm gone tell him something ' bout that shop.
TW: Well tell him.
CE: Go on and tell me.
TWH: Oh we ready? Well, when we, when I went in um, all the boys he got together. So in the hat,
they put whether you were going to work on the bench or the lathe. I didn't know what he was
talking about, the bench or the lathe. Well I drew lathe, wouldn't you know it. And I didn't
know what I had. He said, took me back in a big room, big machinery, "You gone work on the
lathe." I thought, "Oh lads, I thought I was just going to have fun over here. Looks like I gotta
work." So, I did. And I learned good and I learned fast too. You had to do certain things in the
lathe. It made lamps. There's a little dish, it's, I'll get it while I, I can talk and walk without, I
think I still have one little dish that I did on the lathe and
BRJEF BREAK TN VIDEO
TWH: (holding a dish in her hand) Little hole in the bottom, I almost, I turned that on the lathe.
CE: This, this is, this is the uh,
TWH: On the lathe.
CE: Wow.
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Hodges, Thelma Welch
TWH: When the machine was, the equipment...
CE: Um hum.
TWH: you know, you brace yourself. Then they give you a square piece of wood and said, "Alright
now, bring it down there." I didn't know what the man was talking about. Fortunate for me, 1
had Henry Jenkins whose father ran that store in Sandfly.
CE: Um hum.
TWH: And Wallace Wynn who became a teacher. And they were good. One on each side of me so I
had plenty of help when I was doing things wrong. And just like men, they love to tell woman
something that (unintelligible). But I did it 'cause I had to.
TW: Tell 'em how you got to the shop.
TWH: Huh?
TW: In the ...
TWH: Oh. 'Course girls went up one steps. We went on the Oglethorpe side. And the boys came up in
the middle of the high school because the dresses were short, see.
CE: Wait a minute.
TWH: And the boys were always, I'll tell you the story, you can nm it anyway you want. So they
changed, Mr. Phillips was our principal, M.M. Phillips. And so they had all the girls go up the
Oglethorpe side and all the boys go up the middle, there's only two stairwells. And they, and
the yards to go over to the shop. Well I had to go up to the third floor to put on my coveralls to
go and Mr., I'm sure you' ve heard of, ofum, Funk. We had a teacher um, Funk was on the
second floor and every time.
CE: That's Arthur Funk?
TWH: Yeah, old Arthur.
CE: He taught you?
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Hodges, Thelma Welch
TWH: Huh? No, I got Howard. I took chemistry, I had to. I was taking boys technical but I didn't
know it. And, so I'd go clown those steps 'cause I had on my coveralls. And every time I'd pass
his floor, he'd say [unintelligible]. In those clays, we hung in the window a sign about that big
[video muted for a second here] about twenty-five pounds and so on up. Ice man drive his horse
and wagon then later, trucks. Driver would stop and look at the window and see what you
wanted and you get your hunk of ice and bring it in and everybody had ice boxes long before
we ever had electricity. And, they'd put the ice in your box. Of course it dribbled all the way,
"Bloop, bloop, bloop." We'd have to mop it up. And, and then we'd get the chips offthe wagon
and eat 'em. You know those wagons were dirty, they didn't kill us though; we ate 'em, we ate
'em. And that was something else that, vendors, they had wagons and they, it didn't matter who
it was, was driving it, they'd have either all watermelons or all sweet potatoes. And then we
had some enterprising that had stalls and you could buy vegetables. And then the women
peddlers had big baskets that they wove out of pine needles. And they could turn their heads,
take that thing and they had shrimp, and crab, and fish.
CE: Were these black women?
TWH: Yeah.
CE: Okay, black women .. .
TWH: It's just like everybody was, no everybody was delightful. We didn't have any problems.
Everybody ...
CE: .. . Handwoven ...
TWH: Baskets.
CE: Handwoven baskets.
TWH: Uh huh. And all friendly. And of course, Mama always fixed tea for 'em in the summer and
coffee for 'em in the winter 'cause by that time they was worn out, walking .. .
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Hodges, Thelma Welch
CE: And they sold, let me get this, they sold slu·imp?
TWH: Oh yeah.
TWH: And crab
CE: And crab.
TWH: and fish. No ice. We not dead yet. We ate. Mama cook it, everybody did.
TW: Tell them how they announced the, coming down the street.
TWH: Oh, "Eh crab. Eh shrimp." And everybody hear them, get them pans, and come out with .. .
CE: They call 'em hucksters.
TWH: Yeah.
CE: Yeah, call 'em hucksters.
TWH: Yeah.
CE: Alright, let me put
TWH: We didn't know that's what they called. We just heard 'em.
CE: Um, yeah.
TWH: Blackberries that they picked. Strawberries. There were a lot of wild blackberries and the
strawberries in the woods and vines we, all. And those 'ole persimmons, those seedy
persimmons. Oh they twist your mouth inside out.
CE: Tell me about it. They were crying out, you say they were crying out and they would say what
now?
TWH: What?
CE: The black women that were selling the shrimp.
TWH: Oh, they would say, "Eh crab, eh shrimp, eh fish. Get 'em today." And blackberries,
"Blackberries, huckleberries." They'd sell those and, and um, then the men were in the wagon;
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Hodges, Thelma Welch
they depend on them to get the easy way you know. That's man for you. Find the easy way to
do something.
CE: Did you ever go to old City Market when you were a kid?
TWH: Oh yeah.
CE: Tell me about it.
TWH: We went every Saturday even after I was married in 1929 to get our fryers. And I'd take Thad's
grandmother had to go get hers. Take her and whoever else wanted to go 'cause I had the car.
And we'd go to Congress Street and we'd pick you out a fryer and they'd take a bent coat
hanger and it was bent, and get the fryer by the leg and pull it out to you and feel the breast and
want you to feel it; I didn't know what I was feeling. And then they'd either swing 'em around,
or just take a knife and bonk the heads off and pop 'em in a pot of boiling water, bring 'em
right up and clean 'em, pick the feathers off. ..
CE: In other words, you would take your mother-in-law with you?
TWH: Oh yeah. Had to, they didn't have a car. And they, everybody bought what you got on Saturday
for Sunday.
TW: That was your mother wasn't it Mama? Not Mother-in Law.
TWH: No, my mama, my daddy had a store ...
TW: I apologize.
TWH: ... a meat market on West Gwitmett.
CE: What kind of car did you have?
TWH: When we bought one in 1918, it was a Nash, N.A.S.H.
CE: Um hum.
TWH: It, it was 1918 that we got our first car.
TW: That was your granddaddy's, that was your daddy's car.
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Hodges, Thelma Welch
TWH: Henry, Henry Ford put the world on, the United States on wheels, Henry Ford. What'd you say
about your?
TW: I said that was your daddy's car in 1918.
TWH: Yeah.
CE: Um hum.
TWH: My, my, my daddy well it was a, it was a six-seater, you know, tluee in the front and three in
the back.
CE: What did your daddy do?
TWH: Meat market and grocery store, West Gwinnett.
CE: Owned a meat market and grocery store?
TWH: Yeah, had his own.
TW: I got a picture of that.
TWH: Four of 'em.
CE: Wow.
TWH: Yeah. Um, owned a market. On West Broad was a Greek had a store. Next was Cranman uh,
Meat Market and Grocery Store. Next was Mazo Meat Market and Grocery Store. Then
Patterson, cracker boy, with green vegetables on Magnolia and Gwitmett close to a, project
houses.
CE: [Unintelligible] your daddy?
TWH: My daddy.
CE: That was the cracker boy?
TWH: Yeah. And that's when, he chose, when he was in the service, Georgia Cracker or Cracker
Boy?
TW: Well, I was an instructor pilot teaching people to fly jets. And each, each instructor had a name.
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Hodges, Thelma Welch
CE: Yeah.
TW: And I, my, my call sign was Cracker.
CE: Yeah. It 'cause it's, you know, a sense of pride, people say "Yeah, I'm a Georgia Cracker."
TWH: We are proud. I'm proud of it. And that's how Georgia got that name with those whips over the
mules' heads. They' d pop him, make fire. 'Course, that's how they got that name, fire cracker.
CE: When did you get married?
TWH: 1929.
CE: Okay.
TWH: In Savannah, at the church I mean at the parsonage. My older sister was married in a church
wedding. I was married in a ...
CE: Okay, parsonage was your style though?
TWH: Parsonage?
CE: Yeah.
TW: Which church Mama?
TWH: Asbury Memorial Methodist.
CE: That's on Waters.
TWH: Yeah. Still going.
CE: You still go there?
TWH: Their still, no I don't go there. I go on Wilmington Island.
CE: Oh, okay.
TWH: We started a church down there.
TW: She started the Wilmington Island United Methodist Church after leaving there.
TWH: Yeah, I did the ...
TW: Tell him about that uh, stained glass window at Asbury.
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Hodges, Thelma Welch
TWH: About, you know sometimes you get, you mean the flowers on Sunday?
TW: No. I was going to ask you to tell him about a stained glass window that was important to you.
TWH: Oh yeah. I, there's, at the church, in my church they decided to put in stained glass windows.
So, Sonny and Ethel put in a . ..
TW: No, no that one. That was at, that was at Wilmington. What about granddaddy Patterson's
window?
TWH: Oh well that was, the window there was because he was treasurer thirty years at Asbury. It's
still there, George R. Patterson. And Joe Heston is the man. But they say it's straight. The
CE: George R.
TWH: George R. Patterson, George Randolph.
TW: That's a repeat of .. .
TWH: Patterson, my daddy. That windows still there. And if they ever want to take 'em out my,
That'll get it. And Eric is a builder, his youngest son.
CE: Billy, Billy Hester I know him personally. I've interviewed him on another project, yeah.
TWH: Oh. You know he plays a drum in the band. Every fifth Sunday is musical there at Asbury and
after he preaches, he takes off his robe and of course he has on slacks and, he won't play with
his robe on. Not the jazz music.
CE: Umhum.
TWH: So,
CE: He's big on theater and stuff too.
TWH: Uhhuh.
CE: Very nice fella.
TWH: A lot of big people going there now.
CE: I can't, I've met so many wonderful people.
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Hodges, Thelma Welch
TWH: Uhhuh.
CE: Uh, you never did tell me, what, what was the make of the car that you had in '29?
TWH: Oh um,
CE: You didn't tell me.
TWH: his, his daddy had the coupe with the rumble seat. ..
CE: Okay.
TWH: .. . rumble seat. A coupe, a Ford coupe. And then on each side was a little vase had flowers in
'em, artificial.
CE: Was a rumble seat, ah man.
TWH: Was a, yeah, rumble seat. And you'd step on the running board, step on the side of the fender
with the step, and they just raised up the back and it was a seat and we'd sit down.
CE: Um,
TWH: We went on our honeymoon in that thing.
CE: Alright.
TWH: Up in North Carolina. Took us where Buicks couldn't go.
CE: To Notth Carolina.
TWH: Yeah, it was, it was a great state. Great car. And what, where'd we leave off? We left off
where we were talking about the stores. But that was the way the stores ran. See, nobody had
anything but ice boxes. Electric refrigerators had not been discovered. I mean it, produced. So,
they had the blue law on Sunday in Savatmah.
CE: Umhum.
TWH: They could open the store but had to close it by ten o'clock. But that was so the people could
get their meat and vegetables. 'Cause a lot of 'em, all in that section, they didn't have much
money. Nobody had much money but they had even less.
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Hodges, Thelma Welch
CE: Okay. The blue laws in Savatmah only allowed stores to open
TWH: Until ten.
CE: ... until ten . ..
TWH: Yeah, and that was just .. .
CE: a.m.?
TWH: Ten a.m., yeah, a.m.
CE: So people could buy their food?
TWH: That's right. Fresh vegetables and meat ' cause they had the big refrigerators, you know, where
CE: Um hum.
TWH: ... they kept the meat. Ice boxes, they weren't refrigerators. But daddy didn't get to have the
electric one 'cause uh, he was out of the business by then. And the chain stores started coming
111.
CE: Um hum.
TWH: And first it was Rogers and then Owl, O.W.L. And they put a .. .
CE: Alright, the chain stores ...
TWH: they put the little man out of business.
CE: .. . like Rogers
TWH: Owl, O.W.L. And then later it was uh, A&P and then Grocerteria by the market. And then of
course we had, uh, thank goodness we had, we have, oh the ones that everybody buys from and
its supermarket, Kroger's, Kroger's.
CE: Umhum.
TWH: And their good to the people. They, they, they'll help you.
CE: Yeah, Kroger's is a good store.
20
Hodges, Thelma Welch
TWH: Kroger's is good.
CE: Publix man uh, I like Publix myself.
TWH: Well Publix is a little bit higher. That's out my class.
CE: I still go to both of 'em. I know everybody in the store 'cause that store, I go everyday man.
I'm a cook. I'm a, you know, a ...
TWH: Yeah, I don't have to cook.
CE: I go every day. They say, "How you know all these personally?" And they, you know, they
don't have something and I want 'em to, like I wanted some kind of sherbet, man they went and
uh, they make sure they have it now. I say, "I like that."
TWH: Good.
CE: Yeah. Um, what did, what did people do for amusements?
TWH: Well, they had the movies. And, and we did, the kids, high school kids, walked uptown every
Saturday: ten cents for the Arcadia, fifteen cents for the Odean, and thirty-five for the Lucas but
that was too expensive, we didn't get to go there. We just. ..
CE: Ya'Jl went, ya'll walked to the movies?
TWH: Yeah. Walked up there to there to see how Tom Mix got along ...
CE: Okay.
TWH: And, and Lillian Gish tied to the railroad tracks.
CE: Oh wait a minute, I got to get all this now, I'm telling you. Ya'll walked to the movies in
childhood. Now what's that first movie you told me?
TWH: Uh, I think it was Lillian Gish.
CE: No, the first movie theater.
TWH: Oh.
CE: The name of it.
21
Hodges, Thelma Welch
TWH: Odeon, O.D.E.O.N., O.A.N.? Odean.
CE: Okay, how much would you have to pay to go in there?
TWH: Fifteen cents for that one.
CE: Alright, what was the other one?
TWH: Arcadia. A.R.C.A.R.D.I.A. ?
CE: Um hum.
TWH: Arcadia.
CE: Um hum.
TWH: Ten cents. And then Lucas, thirty-five cents.
CE: Oh, the Lucas was expensive.
TWH: And the Savannah Theater, well they had plays. And course we didn't get to go to them until
we were in high school. But it took all of our quarters to go there. So we'd divide it up and go
to the other place and then buy candy with the other 'cause we walked uptown and then walked
back. But we had that candy eaten by the time we ...
CE: Now ya'll, ya'll walked from uh, you say 32nd Street?
TWH: Uh huh, and Waters Avenue.
CE: "We walked ...
TWH: That was the second block down, all the neighborhood kids. Well, it wasn't about, about four or
five of us girls. Boys were
CE: .. . from 32nd and Waters Avenue" to Broughton Street to go to the movies?
TWH: We just went on Saturdays.
CE: Umhum.
TWH: We couldn't go any other time; we had lessons to do and homework to do.
CE: Alright, some of the, some of the movie stars: Lillian Gish,
22
Hodges, Thelma Welch
TWH: Lillian Gish. Dorothy Gish. And then there was Buster Brown.
CE: Lillian, Lillian Gish, I know her.
TWH: Penny's had Buster Brown, a Iii boy. And then we had the gang, a group of little children about
five or six or seven years old ...
CE: Um hum.
TWH: That was a funny little story.
CE: The Little Rascals?
TWH: Yeah. He was one of the main ones.
CE: You mentioned, you mentioned somebody else for me to. You said uh . ..
RH: TomMix.
CE: Tom Mix, yeah. Who else was a, a western man?
TWH: Um, I don't know. But I know Tarzan, Buster Crab, and . ..
CE: Buster Crab, I got that right here, Buster Crab.
TWH: Yeah, we loved all that. All of the, the ape is coming.
CE: Ms. Hodges, you are amazing. You, you, she is amazing. Man, you are so blessed.
TWH: We had a lot of fun.
CE: We are blessed by being in her presence. I want you to know that. We appreciate it.
TWH: No, no. What my, you've been through with, you had no control over it and we had no control
over our ancestors. And here we are today and thanks be it, America's so young.
CE: Um hum.
TWH: And, here we are. Well ours came over as indentures. The King appointed the people to come.
CE: Umhum.
TWH: And well they didn't do, I don't know how in the world they got on that 'Iii tiny Mayflower.
They had Miles Standish and, and ...
23
Hodges, Thelma Welch
CE: You have, your relatives, your ancestors came on the Mayflower right?
TWH: Yeah.
CE: Okay.
TWH: They're appointed by the King to settle Virginia. But see, they done missed Virginia. The wind
blew ' em in Plymouth. They had sailboats, that's all they had in those days, sailboats. And they
landed at Plymouth. So, we belong to the Mayflower Association in the Georgia branch of the
Georgia group.
CE: Okay, "My family ... "
TWH: Course I'm proud of my heritage as you are ofyours.
CE: Oh yeah. " .. . belonged to the ... "
TWH: Oh, I'm proud . ..
CE: " ... to the, the," the Georgia branch?
TWH: Yeah. Mayflower ...
CE: Ofthe Mayflower,
TWH: Meets in Atlanta every ...
CE: .. . of the Mayflower Association?
TWH: Yeah. Georgia branch, Georgia Mayflower, I have the magazine down there.
TW: I think the official name is the Mayflower Descendants of the State of Georgia. But that's a
TWH: Well, I didn't give the exact, the .. .
CE: Mayflower. ..
TWH: The Mayflower folk verified by the end of the hat rack. If, this is off the sideline: one ofThad's
grandchildren, my great-grandchild's daughter, I said, "Lauren" um, is there a Mayflower
there?
TW: Yeah.
24
Hodges, Thelma Welch
TWH: That's a, just let him see it. They publish a magazine.
CE: Wow. You say they meet in Atlanta every year?
TWH: Yeah uh, uh yeah they meet but we don't go 'cause it...
CE: Yeah.
TWH: ... you have to stay at a hotel...
CE: Okay.
TWH: and the luncheons, what, thirty-five and forty dollars.
CE: Yeah, that's a lot of money.
TWH: And, and so.
CE: And you also subscribe to?
TWH: Now if you want that magazine you can have it. I don't know what good it'll do you but if you
want it you can have it. What does it, is that the update or is it a full brochure?
CE: This is, this is mag, I won't take your magazine.
TWH: Well, 'cause.
CE: I don't think we ought to do that.
TWH: It, they publish that often.
TW: We get one every quarter.
CE: It comes every quarter? Well if I do, I'll have to put down on the form that you sign that you
TWH: Oh.
CE: saying we can take it.
TW: Whatever sir.
CE: Okay. Alright, we'll take it then.
TWH: Well it might, you might want to look up something. Something ...
CE: Um ...
25
Hodges, Thelma Welch
TWH: What?
CE: When you, when did you, what kind, I'm, I'm interested in your working career especially
when you went to the Southeastern Shipyard. That's ...
TWH: Alright.
CE: ... for the historical record, that is as important as anything you can tell me. Because the
historical significance to it.
TWH: Well they begged the women to come in. And um, so my husband decided, alright, that I, that I
could go. But he had to too ' cause the Dixie engraving they took their acid, their copper, their
glass, the government was using everything but they didn't close the Dixie, it got closed out
because of offset that the people where, they do their own pictures.
CE: Um hum. Let me ask you one question.
TWH: I don't know where, when it was stopped.
CE: I want to really get a good, strong sense of, when did you first, where did you first work
anywhere?
TWH: Well, I worked at Western Union when I was out of high school. At the desk, you know.
Everything pushes everything else out the way.
CE: 'Cause I want to be very ...
TWH: The, you'd go in and you'd ...
CE: Okay.
TWH: . .. do a telegram often words, cost so much. You do one of fifty word- it's called a letter- that
would cost you something else, and cables were the most expensive. Well you had to train for
that but they, they trained you. They trained you and you had to have an alphabet that was
different from- my son knew an alphabet, he also knew the swag and the light, being in the
26
Hodges, Thelma Welch
service, to notify people oh, during the war years. Well, that's where I worked when I got out
of high school.
CE: Umhum.
TWH: They trained me.
CE: Alright.
TWH: And then I worked there. And then I was married and I didn't work then. I was, my husband
didn't want me to work. So ...
CE: Alright, let me get that.
TWH: Um hum. And from then on I didn't work 'til nineteen um, sixty-five. And my sister said, "You
better get you a job and get some quarters in there. You won't have anything to fall back on."
CE: Alright. Now ...
TWH: And so I worked from then and went and took Red Cross aid and worked as a nmse's aide.
Then they told us we had to go into the shipyard.
CE: Alright, now you say "I'm married and my husband did not want me to work."
TWH: Yeah.
CE: Okay, um, let me get caught up.
BRIEF BREAK IN VIDEO
TWH: First when school was out. Dog gone it, Pearl Harbor was December. And there's where the
really Clancy lowered the boom. We had, everything was rationed. 1941 and then '42 and
Savmmah got hit bad with the Depression. And then they um, course they were starting up the
shipyard. And so then I went down to um, vocational school and I didn't like that. ..
CE: Hold on a second.
TWH: Alright.
CE: I want to get all this very carefully.
27
Hodges, Thelma Welch
TWH: Did you need that light on there sir?
CE: Um, um. I'm fine.
TWH: 'Cause it seems to me to be dark. I guess that's 'cause my eyes are ...
CE: Okay, you say Savannah was hit hard with the economic depression and, what else happened?
You say you worked for awhile as a nurse's aide?
TWH: Yeah, I worked free. That was when um, Red Cross trained you, you pay for everything but
you worked free.
CE: Okay.
TWH: And then I got a job at Oglethorpe, it's torn clown now; hospital, as a nurse's aide so I could
build up my social security.
TW: You're talking in the '60s now Mother aren't you?
TWH: Hum?
TW: The hospital job that you're talking about is in the '60s.
TWH: Yeah.
TW: I think he was back in ...
CE: Yeah, keep me in the '40s now.
TW: He wants you to go back to the uh .. .
CE: Forties.
TW: ... either forties.
TWH: Alright.
TW: And you did work in that time and, to the shipyard.
TWH: Alright, in the '40s. Thank you. You got to snatch me back sometimes.
CE: Alright now, so the Red Cross came after?
TWH: After, the Reel Cross came.
28
Hodges, Thelma Welch
CE: Okay, let me, let me uh, alright. Let's talk about the shipyard.
TWH: This is what, when they begged the women to come in. Then, all the men were getting scarce
and the ships were there. I mean, they were trying to build it up. And, they were so, I went to
vocational school and took burning, settling torch.
CE: Okay, wait a, hold on one second. And you say really, men were scarce 'cause they were in the
war.
TWH: Yeah. They begged the women to come. But you know what we started at? Fifty-six cents an
hour.
CE: Wait a minute. Boy this awesome.
TWH: They didn't pay us much.
CE: Okay, "Women were paid fifty cents ... "
TWH: Fifty-six.
CE: Fifty-six cents an hour. Okay, now you had to go to, you went to ...
TWH: Vocational ...
CE: .. . school to learn ...
TWH: Vocational, yeah. You had to, to learn how to ...
CE: Which vocational school did you go to?
TWH: The Savannah on Bay, it was on Bay Street then. And they had a shop, taught settling welding
and, that and tin work. 'Cause my husband went to the ship fitting and in the fabricating part of
the training down there on Bay Street. Right there at Barnard where it goes down to the river,
under those block of houses.
CE: And your husband ...
TWH: Yeah.
CE: ... took what now? For the ship he took up what?
29
Hodges, Thelma Welch
TWH: Uh, he, he, he did, was uh, fabrication shop. Fabrication. I'm not saying it right.
CE: You got it, fabrication shop.
TWH: Yeah.
CE: He was a fabricator.
TWH: And I worked there two because we had to cut the metal for the welders to weld it back
together. But urn, we, we burned right along with the men. They only had three men, three
women, and each ofus had a helper. My helper was named Sam Cohen.
CE: Alright.
TWH: A big 'ole six foot ...
CE: "We had three men and three women."
TWH: In the fab shop. And we had to stand up all day. You couldn't sit down. And it was cold in the
winter and hot in the summer. But, the floor was sand because the sparks from our. ..
CE: Umhum.
TWH: torch. That's the thing what I was using, torch.
CE: Um hum.
TWH: It would sparkle all over. You know that man saved my life tlU"ee times. Or saved me very near
my life.
TW: That's important.
TWH: Huh?
TW: Her helper, Sam. Tell him the name again. Sam Cohen?
CE: Okay. You say, "We each had a helper." Okay.
TWH: Yeah, my helper was Sam Cohen. Big 'ole guy. He said, "Ms. Welch you working too hard."
He had to move that metal see.
CE: Sam Cohen?
30
TWH: Yeah.
CE: C.O.H.EN.?
TWH: C.O.H.E.N.
CE: Um hum.
Hodges, Thelma Welch
TWH: He would reach in his hand, in his pocket, when he pulled it out he had a switchblade. And he
had it, chewed tobacco. But it didn't...
CE: He carried a switchblade and chewed tobacco.
TWH: Yeah. But he was a good man. And then .. .
CE: Was he black? Or white?
TWH: Yeah, black. All of 'em, all the helpers were black.
CE: Oh this is very important, wait, I got to get this.
TWH: I don't know what they made but they started us at fifty-six cents an hour and I was burning
alongside of a white burner man and I to burning and I looked, I beat him burning what we
were burning about the same thing. Port and starboard you know? I didn't know what port and
starboard was.
CE: Now all the helpers were black but they couldn't, they couldn't be welders and stuff, right?
TWH: Yeah, they could have but at that time, no. None, none of'em applied, they didn't know they
could I guess.
CE: Okay.
TWH: But they were all over there, had helpers everywhere.
CE: Tell me how Sam saved you.
TWH: Oh, Sam. Well um, overhead of us was a gantry that moved this big metal and huge things that
we cut. And I didn't know what P & S stood for. Now that's the truth. Well I said, I knew that
"P," you did it one way ...
31
Hodges, Thelma Welch
CE: Um hum.
TWH: ... and starboard you did it the other.
CE: Umhum.
TWH: "P" was port and that was left. I found out later that that's what it was. And see, as they got the
ship soldered like that and then it got wider, wider. But you still had port and starboard.
CE: Umhum.
TWH: And the um, fitters, ship fitters, would bang it out with a circle around the "P" and around the
"S" and we knew what we were doing so we knew how to cut it. And I was standing beside this
guy from South Carolina and I said, "How much you getting?" He said, "$1.20." I said, "Well
how come I'm getting fifty-six?" He said, "I'm better than you." I said, "You can't tell the
difference in our, your cut and mine." So I said, "I'll see about that." And I went out and talked
to the rail um, fab shop, then I went out of the fab shop and went to the burners shack. And I
said, "That man's getting a dollar twenty an hour and I'm only getting fifty-six and we doing
the same kind of work." They said, "Oh, you are?" [unintelligible] and I got it. But um, I'll tell
you what he did. The gantry picked up these big pieces. They were long. By the time we got
through with it, they'd be longer than, twice as long as this room, a Liberty ship you know.
And some of those big things had to be handled out on what they called the slab.
CE: Um hum.
TWH: And, but I worked in the fab shop on the smaller "H" beams, high beams, and everything like
that. So um, the gantry man, he got out ofthe, one of the hands, they had two men walked
along holding the metal to keep it from swinging on its, on those cables. And the one man, I
don't know why he dropped it but my, all of sudden my torch, the sand came over and turn my
torch off and took my, put his hand on my head and push me down on the fl, on the dirt.
CE: Wait a minute now. You said, we got to go back.
32
Hodges, Thelma Welch
TWH: I got up.
CE: The gantry man, that's G.A.N.T.R.Y.?
TWH: The gantry was those big machines that roll, that are guided by a man up in a little box.
CE: Umhum.
TWH: And they' d take the metal where it needed to go.
CE: Okay, guided big machines that transported the metal.
TWH: That's right, transport is the word we're hunting. And it, one man lost his hold and that's the
one that was swinging then 'cause it swung out of control of the other man, was some heavy
stuff. Big 'ole gantry. And uh, I came up from under my helmet and, and all my man did was
just do like this, pointed, and I saw that thing swinging and I, it would have knocked me cold.
CE: Could've killed you.
TWH: And then the floors um, dirt...
CE: Um hum.
TWH: .. .'cause the sparks had to be killed.
CE: Um hum.
TWH: And um, another time I knew I was going down and I kept going down and going down, I
didn't know what was the matter. And then that hand came over the top, turned my torch, if
they were smart they could have been drained but they didn't do that in those days.
CE: Umhum.
TWH: And turned it off and I looked and he give me, that's when he give me a shove and I landed to
about where son was
CE: And Sam Cohen shoved you?
TWH: Yeah, Sam, Sam give me a push. I would've had my legs twisted under that metal horse with,
when it went on clown. And the third time was on a Sunday and we used to have to wear, in the
33
Hodges, Thelma Welch
winter time, longjons and everything to keep warm. But you could heat a piece of metal and
stand on it or sit on it if you dared, didn't mind getting burned or something. And, and this time
I said, "I am so hot I don't know what to do." And 'ole Sam says, "Yes ma'am. Your pants is
on fire." I didn't even know it. You see we wore long handles under there ...
CE: Yeah.
TWH: .. .long drawers ...
CE: Umhum.
TWH: And, and burned off the leg of my pants.
CE: Sam rolled you over that time too?
TWH: Yeah, he saved me, tlll'ee times he saved me. And one sad time a bunch of men, everything was
rationed, everything. And um, 'cept bread I think and you could get that, bread, at Dearst's on
Habersham and, right off Oglethorpe, uh, Liberty. We call it the second hand store. You could
go get day old bread, cake, anything. So um, this man had brought, one of the helpers had
bought one of the white girls some candy.
CE: Um hum.
TWH: And the men in the fab shop, not the fab shop, workers, ganged up and they were looking for
the man.
CE: Um hum.
TWH: So, uh, I was burning some pipe for some pipe fitters ...
CE: Um hum.
TWH: ... and this group of men came in and said, "There he is." Now, then I stopped and I kept a
torch lit and they were oh, way to that other side of that bedroom door 'cause that torch would
have gone to that bedroom door.
CE: Um hum.
34
Hodges, Thelma Welch
TWH: The flame. And he said, "There's the man." And I said, "What do you want him for?'' "Buying
girl candy." I said, "Not my man." "Yes he was, I know it's him." I said, "My man hadn't left
my side since I came this morning.
CE: Wow.
TWH: He's been with me." And they started forward and I just pressed the trigger and they couldn't
take another step. I said, "Take a step."
CE: Wow.
TWH: And they said, "I don't think we got the right man." They turn and went out the fab shop.
CE: Jesus Cluist.
TWH: Oh, I was so scared. Sam says, "Thank you ma'am." I says, "Thank you for being my helper."
'Cause he
CE: So a black guy bought a white woman some candy.
TWH: Yeah. Bought a white girl.
CE: The black, a white girl. But what I'm saying, back in those days that would get a black man
killed.
TWH: Yeah.
TW: And, and one of the things that they had to worry about was a black man couldn't touch a white
woman.
CE: Right.
TW: But Sam didn't. Sam shoved Mother down and things like that.
CE: Um hum.
TW: But if somebody had seen it in a, in a different context, well maybe ...
CE: Yeah, he would've been dead .. .
TW: in that context.
35
Hodges, Thelma Welch
CE: Or lynched.
TWH: It was awful.
TW: He risked his life the three times to save Mother because of the, the racial issues there.
CE: Let me, let me, just hold up for a minute let me get that.
TWH: Oh, it was scary,
CE: Let me transcribe.
TWH: scary, but I knew I had, was, that torch and I'd burned the first man that step forward 'cause
that man stood by my side the whole time waiting to, he'd say, "Don't work so hard." I said,
"Well I got to keep up with those men over there; they'll fire me." So, but when they came in
that fab shop and I saw the group and I just stopped burning and, and um release uh, pressure,
the oxygen so that it wouldn't shot it. But I left my torch burning. And they said, I said, "What
do you want?" He said, "We want that, your man." And I said, "Not my man. What do you
want him for?'' "Getting candy for a girl over in the other thing." I said, "Go get the girl don't
get mine, don't go get a man." And they said, "No, we gone get yours." I said, "Take a step."
And I put on the pressure. And it shot past, way past that bedroom door. And they said, "I think
we got the wrong man." I said, "You better get the heck out of here." I didn't cuss or anything
'cause I don't believe in it. It doesn't do any good to cuss. But, he went and he said, "Thank
you Ms. Welch." And I said, "Look here, you my good friend. You done saved me three times
from bad things." And uh, but we, we've, we had some experience. And go outside, the birds
would get us at lunch time, the gut seagulls. I didn't go outside to eat either. I ate inside at the,
at the door. We had to carry our lunch, didn't have stores you know, you could buy something.
Everything was rationed. You didn't bring it, you didn't get it. It was interesting and I wouldn't
take anything for having worked but I had to beg my husband when they let me go to work
'cause they wanted us to. And we had to come to town anyhow; no transportation down there.
36
Hodges, Thelma Welch
We didn't get it 'til years later. When Windsor Forest was built. What was it? Wilmington Park
was built. Then they, so many of 'em had maids that needed to come down and, course gasoline
was rationed; it was fifteen and twenty cents a gallon. Gas was, we couldn't get it, couldn't get
it. You had food stamps. You weren't allowed to get but like a half a pound of butter or ham.
You could get chicken and fish, eggs, anytime. But you could not get meats. It was an
interesting time. But everybody was in the same boat, couldn't do much, much. It was very
exciting for me. I mean, I had been so sheltered all my life you know. But I, I had what I
needed, that torch.
CE: That torch.
RH: That's a great story.
TWH: I would've got 'em too.
RH: That was a great story.
TWH: A acetylene torch acetylene and oxygen mixed.
RH: She told it, she told it well too, that was great.
TW: Tell 'em about the Crawford W. Long.
TWH: The what?
TW: The Crawford Long ship.
TWH: Um, uh, they had people that cut the plate. They called it, the fab shop called it the dipher plate.
It was about that fat. And it was square. I guess right, like from you to there to me, at the very
point of the ship.
TW: Held the ship on the, on the ramp.
TWH: And it was welded, I mean welded to the thing. And the kids were going to launch the
Crawford W. Long ship. And they, they were named after famous Georgia people. And it was
ship #5. And so, my lead man turned my name in and uh, superintendent of the whole thing, he
37
Hodges, Thelma Welch
was from Texas, he liked the other burner. Another woman burner; she was single. And so, we
the, we were gotma cut the plate. And she had the right hand side and I had the left hand side.
So my lead man was with me, he was from Brooklet, Georgia. And the superintendent of the
whole business, the fab shop, had her. That was his girlfriend. So, we all said one ...
CE: Ya'll cut the plate for the Crawford Long right?
TWH: Yeah. And, and directions, they directed us.
CE: Okay.
TWH: At one, two, three, four, five holes. I mean that plate was more than three, four inches thick.
And it had to be red hot. And of course those sparks flying ...
CE: Umhum.
TWH: ... when it hits. So we're one, then we put the torch up. And then, they said two, then we had to
get it hot again. And then when they said burn, we burned.
CE: Um hum.
TWH: We waited. And the third one, that thing popped out, I thought I was shot. And that ship started
rolling, got faster and faster. The men went down there lumping out of buckets grease, grease,
axle grease with a wooden paddle throwing it on the wood.
CE: Umhum.
TWH: Boy that was dangerous. They wouldn't let women ride the ship. Not a woman ever rode the
ship. Not launched it. Bad luck to have a woman on board. Men could ride it, but. And his
daddy was in only group of men that worked and could go anywhere's in the yard. They had to
bring metal to, we got out a ship a week at the Southeastern. Worked around the clock. But, his
daddy worked on the second shift; I worked first shift. And he had a group of men that had to
get the smokestack the, uh, uh, all the other pieces that needed, that was done outside, too big
for the fab shop. And they'd get the gantry, he'd get the gantry. But he was noted for safety for
38
Hodges, Thelma Welch
his men ' cause when he sent a man, a burner in or a welder in "the inner bottoms" they're
called, he had a man in each end to watch.
CE: Um hum.
TWH: And he stood there with them too because if they got tangled and, and you breathing all that
stuffyou know.
CE: Umhum.
TWH: And they, they was famous. But he had friend on ship #6, the way, #6. And he had a girlfriend
in the um, first aid and he'd carry the notes from that one to that one. Had a little romance
going you know. It was fun, when you look back.
CE: Yeah.
TWH: You'd be so ditiy you'd have to bathe three times to get clean ' cause that
CE: You, you worked there how long?
TWH: A year and five months. Thirty uh, thirty-three months. How much is that? Twelve, twentyfour, no that would be two years. I worked there only a year and five months. And then they
turned all the women loose. Just kept the men, they were scaling down.
CE: Um hum.
TWH: But that was fun doing it. I got a picture
CE: And that was in 1941 to 1943?
TWH: Yeah.
TW: I don't
TWH: I worked from,
TW: I' II have to get the dates.
TWH: I wasn't there from the very first but. We, we, we really worked too man, we worked.
TW: I've got that picture.
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Hodges, Thelma Welch
TWH: I've got lots of pictures wherever my
TW: I, I got some pictures that you'd like to see. I didn't bring 'em down but uh .. .
CE: Okay.
TWH: And I was showing him how .. .
CE: I'm gonna tell um, um Michelle Hunter, Ms. Hunter, to call you.
TW: Okay.
CE: And all you have to do when you go down is fill out this form and you can take all photos and,
you know, it's a place where you can write down so they can be returned.
TW: Yeah, these are very.
BRIEF BREAK IN VIDEO
TWH: The rest of the time they burned the plate.
CE: Um hum.
TWH: And
TW: And they took a formal picture with the two superintendents that she had, the two burners ...
CE: Um hum.
TW: ... and then uh, then there was a ...
TWH: And the girls, two.
TW: ... the two girls. One of'em was uh, seventeen years old and ...
TWH: Now.
TW: ... launched the ship with, with the champagne.
TWH: She was a little thing then.
TW: Well, but obviously. But uh ...
TWH: Yeah.
TW: ... her sister was twelve or thirteen and they got that on one of the things itself.
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Hodges, Thelma Welch
TWH: Yeah.
TW: I thought she was a big girl because she was wearing stockings or whatever, but.
CE: Um hum.
TW: Because she was thirteen at that, in those times.
CE: [inaudible]
TWH: Honey that was a society bunch.
CE: Um,
TWH: That was society bunch of girls, I mean children. But they, the children, that's the only ship that
they affiliated with and, and that was the only ship that two women burned the plate.
CE: And you, did you, did, did you resume work after you stopped working at Southeastern?
TWH: Did I?
CE: Yeah.
TWH: No. And I didn't work 'til my sister was getting along. She worked for Western Union all of
her life and had to wait twelve years, she retired after thirty years and drew Western Union
pension but she had to wait 'til she was sixty-two to get Social Security. So, she said to me,
"You better get to work and, and ifyou gone draw Social Security," 'cause I, I, I didn't have
enough of quarters.
CE: Um hum.
TWH: And so, I did. I went Red Cross then and worked as a nurse's aide in the hospital the rest of the
wartime. They didn't have any nurses. We were the only things they had. They were so glad to
see us. They would have kissed our feet if we let 'em.
CE: And this was in the, in the what?
TWH: Telfair Hospital, Candler Hospital. That was all, we didn't have Memorial at that time. Then
and St., no, I, we didn't work at St. Joseph's; they were always had Catholics.
41
CE: Okay.
TW: You didn't get paid for that work.
TWH: No, we didn't get paid.
CE: Yeah.
TWH: Red Cross.
CE: "Not paid for this work."
TWH: And you had to buy your ...
CE: Now, this was in the '40s?
Hodges, Thelma Welch
TWH: Yeah, um hum. And, and I went on the runs when they went to Union Camp ...
CE: Umhum.
TWH: to draw blood, I went with 'em.
CE: Um hum. Okay.
TWH: I took the pulse respiration, weighed 'em, and ...
CE: When did you stop working?
TWH: Oh, when I, well I stopped volunteering
CE: Umhum.
TWH: .. . because they changed the place where you went to donate blood .. .
CE: Yeah.
TWH: ... in the city.
CE: Yeah.
TWH: But the rest of the time I'd go on a run ...
CE: Um hum.
TWH: ... to, out to the shipping place, the old sugar refinery and the ...
CE: Umhum.
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Hodges, Thelma Welch
TWH: ... paper mill, tea company, Tetley's tea.
CE: Umhum.
TWH: We went wherever they were giving blood.
CE: Um hum.
TWH: And in the city, we're there too. 'Cause first thing, you get a good check-up when you give
blood. And uh, but, it was all interesting. But all that was free, you worked free.
TW: Talk about,
CE: How
TW: I was just gonna ask her to go to the paid, paid things to get your quarters for Social Security.
When did you start working at the hospital to get paid?
TWH: Sixty-five. I had to work five years. I worked ' 65. And then Oglethorpe sold out 'cause um,
CE: What type, where'd, where'd you work? Oglethorpe Hospital?
TWH: Uh huh. On uh, Duffy, between Harmon and Ott Street.
CE: Um hum.
TWH: And then they sold it to the city for recreation for that section. It was all, had turned, all the
houses had, people, black people had bought ' em. Beautiful places. Lovely places all in there.
CE: I interviewed a lady, Harriet um, oh, what's Harriet's last name? Well, she, she bought one of
those houses from a doctor, a white doctor. Big, huge house.
BRIEF BREAK IN VIDEO
TWH: And um, Thad uh, flew, he was in Vietnam a whole year.
CE: Yeah.
TWH: Flew every day, eight hours a day over the Army. And, whenever there was any fire, 'cause it's
so thick with trees and stuff.
CE: Um hum.
43
Hodges, Thelma Welch
TWH: And everybody carried hand grenades uh, enemies, even the children. So, he saw the plane, it
was one of the bombers, shot clown in the enemy territory. And so he told his radio man, he had
a radio man back at the base, and said to him, uh, he had to report back to him everything. So
he said, "I'm going in." His name was Cracker.
CE: Um hum.
TWH: He chose the name Georgia Cracker, proud of it. And .. .
TW: But that wasn't my call sign over there, Mother. That was when I was teaching 'em to fly.
TWH: Alright, well, I get little things mixed up. And, and he went in, the man, plane was on fire. The
man was hurt bad. And he got the, he landed in the rice paddy with a, what kind of airplane?
TW: It was a 0-1 airplane Mother.
TWH: And I, you know what I thought it was? I thought he was in the jet and I wasn't a bit worried. I
thought he was in a jet all that time. 'Cause he was teaching jet. And he got the man out, got
him over to the, his plane, called, but meantime he called into, to his radio man and he said,
"Get a chopper in. I got a injured man here. I'm moving him from the plane; it's on fire. And
he's injured." So they sent a chopper in to get him.
CE: Umhum.
TWH: Then when he got him safe off the ground, he went over to his plane, in the rice paddy, and the
book says, and you know they go by the book that, that it might not come out. Thad said more
than 1 in 50, or something like that, or fifteen hundred. Uh, he can tell the story better than I
can, and he said, "this is one time," he said, "Oh, I hope this is that one chance it's coming
out." And it did! Got out of that rice paddy and took off in that plane.
CE: Wow.
TW: And what did that result in Mother? Do you know? What medal I got?
TWH: It wasn't like that?
44
Hodges, Thelma Welch
TW: Yeah, it was like that. I said do you know what medal I got that impressed the Wessels?
TWH: Yeah, uh huh. Oh yeah, I stopped in the middle of the story. The, and Fred Wessel said the
Atlanta papers copied it.
CE: Um hum.
TWH: And the, and had his picture with his helmet on and all and said received the Silver Star ...
CE: Wow.
TWH: ... for rescuing a man ...
CE: Wow.
TWH: ... in enemy territory, planes on fire, and, and the man's safe and there he was. So, Fred Wessel
was in the council and he said, "What we gonna name that little street down there? It's just
block along from Wall town to the border." And we just said turn down the street, first road. So,
put it Welch Street.
CE: Alright.
TWH: 'Course we paid five dollars for that sign too. But that, that was, Fred did it. Said we got a hero
and Savannah's not heeding a thing about it. So let's name that street. So they did.
TW: And this, this was early. That was, that actually occurred in '65 but I, I went over there in June
of '64. And uh, so I was out pretty early in, in the situation.
CE: Okay, what is your zip code?
TW: Uh, 31
END
City of Savannah NOTES
1. Filmed on the date indicated at the home of the resident.
2. Designations-- "TWH" indicates Thelma Welch Hodges. "TW" indicates Thad Welch, the interviewee's son and
the subject of an oral history interview collected through this project. "RF" indicates Reginald Franklin, the
Project Videographer. "CE" indicates Charles Elmore, the Project Historian.
45