Transcript of an interview with Rosemary McBride Banks

Oral History # 26
Rosemary McBride Banks
October 3, 2003
Savannah, Georgia
LS: Today is October 3rd, 2003. My name is Luciana Spracher, project historian for the Benjamin
Van Clark neighborhood documentation project of the city of Savannahs Department of
Cultural Affairs. Im speaking with Rosemary Banks, resident of the neighborhood, at her
private residence in Savannah, GA. Let me go ahead and ask you some background
questions. Could you please state your full name, including your middle and/or maiden name?
RB: Rosemary McBride Banks.
LS: If youre comfortable, could you please state your birth date and place of birth?
RB: Place of Birth Savannah, GA, four, ten, forty-one.
LS: When did you move to this neighborhood, what we consider the Benjamin Van Clark
neighborhood today?
RB: Well, weve been living here since 1971, but Ive lived in the general area, I was born and
raised in the general area on Ott and Joe.
LS: On Joe St?
RB: In forty-one. Yes.
LS: So, Joe St. is very close to Wheaton St.?
RB: Correct. And we moved here because of the relocation, and the building of the project there.
LS: Ok, well let me ask you about that. So you were living in the area that is Blackshear homes.
RB: Correct.
LS: When did you have to leave there?
RB: Around the seventies.
LS: And tell me a little bit about what happened that made you relocate.
RB: Well all of the persons in that area, from the bus barn all the way back to Wheaton and then
across Wheaton, some houses remained, but most of the houses persons had to relocate.
And at that time I was living at home, with my mother, and but Ive always wanted a Victorian
house. And I was in school at Savannah State, and one day I came by and saw this house for
sale and purchased it, and then my mother came to live with me.
LS: Where, what was your old address on Joe St.?
Benjamin Van Clark Neighborhood Documentation Project
Neighborhood Oral History Project
Savannah Department of Cultural Affairs
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RB: 529 Ott St.. It was on the corner of Ott and Joe.
LS: Ok. You were right next door to what is now considered King Tisdale Cottage?
RB: Right across the street, correct.
LS: And did you have family members that lived in there?
RB: Well, my godfather lived there, and he married my step-aunt. And thats how it was.
LS: And what were their names?
RB: Robert Tisdale and Alma Tisdale.
LS: Can you tell me a little bit about your house at 529 or the King Tisdale Cottage that was at
516?
RB: Well we had a large home there. It was one-story, with a large yard and a lot of fruit trees.
And right across, well in the next block, was the King Tisdale House. Which was a Victorian
gingerbread type house, with a large yard, pecan trees, and stuff like that. So, that was my
daily visit. I would go to school, come home, go sit and talk with my godfather. And there were
two families living at the house at the time.
LS: Who was the other family?
RB: His sister was living with them. And after he married Alma PorterTisdale, they moved to 37th
St. And then the city purchased, with the relocation, that house and moved it to Hodges.
LS: Ok. Tell me a little bit about that neighborhood, since we cant drive through it today, I mean its
basically completely changed and gone, what was it like to live there?
RB: It was like a family neighborhood. Everybody knew each other and persons, older persons,
looked out for the younger ones. All of us attended Paulsen St. School, elementary, and then
Cuyler, and then Beech. So we walked to Paulsen. Some of us walked to Cuyler. Of course
we took the city bus to go to Beech. With Paulsen there was a playground, so we had that
playground. There were about three or four what you call mom and pop grocery stores in the
area. And then it was really an integrated neighborhood. There were various ethnic groups
living in that particular area. And I guess the biggest business there was the ice company.
Savannah Ice Company. And my step-father, who owned Porters Lounge, his original
business was an ice and wood business. And he got out of that once, of course, everybody
started buying refrigerators and didnt need the ice business anymore. And thats when he
went into the lounge. But
LS: Where was his ice business located?
RB: On what was now Gwinnett St.. They used to live on Gwinnett and Wolf. Just before you get
to the bus barn. Well, what we used to call the bus barn, but its Savannah Transit. It was a
much smaller building and it had trolleys. They used to go down a particular street. Then my
uncle lived right across the street where my grandfather, I guess he was an entrepreneur in a
sense, bought three houses. He bought 935 Joe St. and gave it to one of his oldest
daughters. He bought 529 Ott St. and gave that to my mother, Marie. The next door, which is
527, and gave it to my uncle. The 935 Joe St., my uncle had a wood business also, and after
he got out of that he went to New York and he lived up there for the rest of his life. He lived to
be ninety-five. But, we played, well it was dirt street.
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LS: So it was never paved?
RB: No. With the exception of Harmon St., and of course Wheaton, Waters Ave, those were all
paved streets. But that the middle streets were all dirt. And we would play in the afternoon to
at least five-thirty or six. The normal games kids like to play, you know, stop, and marbles,
jump rope. Thats history to most these kids.
LS: Could you name, you mentioned there were some of the mom and pop grocery stores, do you
remember any of the names of the owners of the stores?
RB: I should, because we went there everyday, but most of them went out of business maybe
about twenty or twenty-five years ago. But off hand I cant recall. But I know Mr. Luke, right
now its Chus, but he had a store there it was Lukes Confectionery.
LS: Were these white owned businesses or African American?
RB: Mr. Lukes confectionery was African American. And the other businesses, one was owned by
a Jew.
LS: Would that be Georgia Market? With Ginsberg?
RB: Correct. And then there was another Jewish business off of Harmon St., on the corner of
Harmon and Joe. And there was another Afro-American business on Wheaton St., another
confectionery. But that became in existence much later than the others.
LS: You mentioned that there were several ethnic groups. Weve already identified that there were
Jewish businesses and families living there. There were African American. What other ethnic
groups were there were represented?
RB: Irish. And there were a few Haitians. And I dont know where they came from. And the lower
part of that neighborhood as you go towards Paulsen, I think some of them, perhaps, migrated
from South Carolina.
LS: What was the feeling when that area was targeted to become a housing area?
RB: Everybody was very upset. Because there were quite a few persons who actually owned their
homes in that area. And they were concerned if they would get the value in order to purchase
a home somewhere else. And just relocating form the atmosphere that we had. The family
like atmosphere in that neighborhood. But also the younger persons, those a little older than I
am, after they finished college, or some finished high school, some of the boys went into the
military, and others moved north where they had relatives and employment. So it was sort of
disintegrating in a sense, the community, before the renovation.
LS: So you were starting to see it break down a little bit?
RB: Yes, a little bit.
LS: Was it turning to more from owner-occupied to rental units?
RB: No, well, it was something like you would hand the home down to the next of kin. So it wasnt
too much, there were some rentals, but it wasnt that much. So that it wasnt the, persons
werent worried about renters coming in. It was just having to move, and the economy at that
time, and having enough money to purchase something of value to the house that you were
leaving. Plus leaving some of the sense of the community.
LS: Do you think that you got a good amount for your property?
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RB: Well, it was my mothers property at the time, I dont know, I dont think she did. That was a
whole process, too. With the housing authority, and the city and trying to get the value of your
property and other things that were involved. Another major problem was, I dont know if it
was with a lot of people, but some persons had loans on their homes. Of course that had to
be paid off, of course that means that the amount that they were going to get for that location
less. That was a problem, a major problem for some people. But, my mother thought she did
some. It was her house. I didnt.
LS: So she was happy with what she got?
RB: Well, somewhat. The process, I mean to drag it out didnt make any sense, so we just
accepted what was given. My uncles house which was right across the street, it was really
funny how they went about it because it was one block of houses that they didnt go across
Joe St.. So their house wasnt purchased. Only those houses on the north side of Joe St. and
those houses. So that was another process with those persons wanting to sell and move
because every person they knew were going to be moving, and they be living right next to the
housing projects coming in, which was rental property. That was a problem for a lot of the
people. Eventually that particular block was sold, the bus company bought it from those
persons.
LS: Is that when your uncle moved, or had he already left?
RB: Well, hed left, but he still owned the house because it was rental property then. So he got a
pretty good settlement on it.
LS: Let me just ask you to tell me a little more about the house you grew up in. You said it was
large but one-story?
RB: Uh huh.
LS: What was it made out of?
RB: It was made out of wood, but it had a vesta siding and brick foundation. And it was high,
because we used to play under these houses. So it was high. You know, the foundation was
real high, almost like a basement.
LS: How many bedrooms, or rooms?
RB: It was four bedrooms, a living room and dining room combination. Later on mother made a
family room out of one of the bedrooms in the back. A kitchen and a den, dinette, rather, and a
bath. Large porch, front and back. Most of those houses had large porches.
LS: Do you know anything about the history of the house, like who it was bought from or when it
was built?
RB: Not really. Well, I never really thought about it to tell you the truth.
LS: Ok. So you moved straight from that house to the house that we are sitting in today on Henry
St.?
RB: Correct.
LS: And tell me about who you bought this house from and what that was like?
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RB: The persons had already moved out. The house was empty. They were kin to the
Lettermans, florists. And the lady had twin daughters, so when I purchased the house it was in
two apartments upstairs and downstairs, of course we changed it to one family. But, judge,
one of the judges lived in this house. And what was really interesting is that I was doing jury
duty one day, and like you said your name and address. And he looked at the address and
said are we still killing Indians underneath the house? And I said what is he talking about. He
said, 1110 Henry St., I was born and raised in that house and we used to shoot and play
Indians. Well, this house has a large basement all the way. We used to find stuff, that was
interesting.
LS: So we was born and raised here. What was his name?
RB: Cheetum. Judge Cheetum.
LS: The lady that that you purchased the house from, was she white?
RB: White, yes. Well this neighborhood was integrated, but it was mostly white when we moved in.
As a matter of fact we were the second Afro-Americans on this block. It was like that for
maybe five years, and then it changed. Well, its changing back, with my next door neighbor,
next door, are white.
LS: What do you think was the reason for the shift originally, like, from mixed to more African
American?
RB: I think it was just the neighborhood in general. It never changed totally to Afro-American.
Always a mixed neighborhood. Maybe not so many, but always mixed. I think also maybe
when the school closed, Riley school close, that made a difference with people changing
wanting to be close to a school where the children could attend.
LS: When did that close?
RB: Probably closed in the 50s, the late 50s. Then it reopened again in the 60s because my son
attended that school, and then it closed until maybe ten years ago when it turned into a school
again.
LS: Why do you think that the neighborhood now is becoming more mixed than it has been in the
past?
RB: Because I think people are getting back to large houses and wanting to do their own repairs
and fixing them up. And then this particular area is some convenient to the bus line and
shopping malls, small malls. And at one time we did have the grocery stores here, the A&P
and the Greens Confectionery in that area there on 37th.
LS: And Waters?
RB: Yeah.
LS: Talk about some of the businesses that were on Waters.
RB: The businesses on before we first moved here when we were just living in the area, we had a
bakery, a fish market, shoe shop. As a matter of fact Mr. Cutter just closed his shoe shop, and
hes been there as long as I can remember. And I think he was the oldest continuous
business Afro-American shoe making.
LS: In Savannah?
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RB: In Savannah, yeah. Then you had grocery stores, package stores, no, well, maybe one or two
lounges, nursery schools. Growing up there werent a flux of churches. In the last, say, twenty
years, on Waters had a lot of churches. I guess its every other block.
LS: Moving in to.?
RB: Correct, in to buildings that are, you know.
LS: Previously commercial?
RB: Correct. And that came up with the zoning problem, because certain businesses could not be
located where churches are. With the community changing people didnt want certain
businesses in to the community. So there was a major zoning problem. But you name it, we
had it in this area. Clothing stores, everything. Five and Dime, of course thats history now.
Nobody has a Five and Dime. I guess its the Dollar store, now Ninety-nine cent store. But
right on the corner of Anderson and Waters was a large ten cent store, what we called a Five
and Dime.
LS: When did you notice the business, the majority of the businesses leaving the area?
RB: I would say, about the early part of the 60s.
LS: What do you think was the reason?
RB: I think in a way the city sort of left this side of town sort of dormant. They werent doing
anything, repairs, buildings were going down. People could not get business loans, really to
do the renovations that they needed and have a cash flow. So they just moved. And when
they population changed we had some little, not major crime, but some crime problems. And I
guess people just moved out to other areas.
LS: Now you and your husband operated a business in this area, right?
RB: Correct.
LS: And it was?
RB: Porters Lounge. We were in the business, next year it would be thirty years. Probably still
would be, but my husband became ill. We had some persons leasing it, but there are
problems with leasers. And you still, youre responsible if something happens, so I decided to
sell.
LS: When did you sell it?
RB: Last year.
LS: 2002?
RB: Correct.
LS: Tell me about the history of how the business got started. Who started it?
RB: Well my step-father started the, William Porter, he started the nightclub business, I guess in
the 40s. He had a club on Gwinnett, right off East Broad, called 543. He was leasing, and
then after he married my mother the decided they werent going to lease anymore they were
going to buy something themselves. So I really dont know how they got to Clyde and West
Broad, but anyhow thats where they relocated. And they were there.
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LS: West Broad and?
RB: Clyde St.. And then he changed the named to Porters Lounge and its been Porters Lounge
until we sold it that day. And in 71 my husband retired from the military, and he was assisting
my step-father, and of course he had a massive heart attack, my step-father did, and he died.
And my mother ran the business probably a year and a half and she decided she didnt want
to be bothered with it, and then she gave it to me. And I wanted to move back to this area,
because there were really no nice, to me, lounges in the area for adult entertainment. And,
again, passing by one day, at that time I was working at Savannah State, I saw this building
that I liked. And it was empty and had been a furniture store, and prior to that Im sure it was a
package store or a lounge because of the way of the design, and it already had a bar in there.
So I, my husband was a little reluctant at first to move back and have a lounge in the area. But
then he said, Ok, well try it. And we had it and it was really nice. I mean we attracted people
from all over. And the good thing about, persons we grew up with and
from the old neighborhood started coming back to the club although they had moved out to
Southside and various parts of the community. Although it was in the neighborhood, it was not
a neighborhood club. All our patrons were from all over in town and from out of town.
LS: Just going back a little bit, can you tell me what was the significance of the name 543?
RB: I really dont know. That was the address of the building.
LS: The original address.
RB: Thats correct and they just named it that. The building is no longer there.
LS: What was your mothers name?
RB: Marie. Julia Marie Martin Porter.
LS: Tell me about some of the, did you have special events at the lounge when it was here?
RB: Yes, all of the holidays, we would celebrate all of the holidays. And when people started
having secretarys day and nurses day, because thats the clientele we had. We would have
secretaries, we would invite all secretaries in the city come and we would serve them lunch, or
serve them dinner. And would have a jazz group or local entertainer to entertain them. Same
thing for the nurses, we would give them all little gifts, and we would have door prizes. So we
would celebrate those special days as well as the holidays, and, of course, Savannah State
Homecoming. Our clients would come prior to the parade. Then after the game, and some of
them would stay there and listen to the game, so then we would have a cookout outside on the
road to entertain them. The same thing with St. Patricks Day. They would start, those who
went to the parade would come back by there, or they would stay there during the time, and
everybody was at ours for that day. Then we had, when we first opened it was the Key Club,
persons had to purchase a key.
LS: So it was members only?
RB: Correct. And you could bring in someone with you. So those persons who had keys, on their
birthdays wed celebrate, have a cake there, something like that. And we always had on
Thursdays and the weekends, live entertainment.
LS: What year did you and your husband stop running it personally?
RB: 2000.
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LS: So the two of you were running it for twenty-six years?
RB: Correct. Well, he was running it. I was in and out, doing the entertainment type things, and
seeing to people.
LS: Whats your husbands name?
RB: Leon Banks, Jr.
LS: Is he from this neighborhood originally?
RB: Correct.
LS: Do you remember what street and block he grew up on?
RB: He lived on Bolton, right on the corner of Bolton and Paulson.
LS: Did you raise your children here?
RB: My one son, yes.
LS: And you said he went to Ramona Riley?
RB: Correct. He graduated from Savannah High. A football player.
LS: Did he go out and play in the parks or anything in the neighborhood?
RB: Well most times I would take him to Forsythe Park, and then down to Daffin Park. We didnt
too much with, well the school at that time would take them down to Van, well it wasnt Van
Clark Park at the time, but it was in that area. But that was the extent of him playing within the
area.
LS: What did you call this neighborhood before it was Benjamin Van Clark?
RB: There was really not a name for it. There is on your tax sheet, there is a name, but I dont think
the community or neighborhood was organized at that time, it was just a name on the tax
sheet.
LS: What about down on Ott St. where you were?
RB: Well, on Ott St. we started, just prior to coming here, the Eastside Citizens Group.
LS: Tell me about, have you had involvement with the various neighborhood associations here?
RB: Correct. I started with the Eastside Citizens Group, and we were instrumental in getting the
W.W. Law Center there and upgrading the old Paulsen playground, and some of the streets
paved, and some other things done.
LS: Are you involved with the Benjamin Van Clark Neighborhood Association?
RB: Well, not as much as I should be, because I have been volunteering as president of St. Pius
Neighborhood Development Council, but I do plan to be more involved with Van Clark,
because I do know him personally. My son went to Frank Allens Boys Club, and he lived right
across the street from there. And I was involved a little bit with the Civil Rights movement, so I
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know him, and I would like to see whatever projects we have, with his name associated with it,
be successful.
LS: Tell me about your involvement with the Civil Rights Movement?
RB: Well, during the time I was teaching at Anderson St. School, and I to go to Beech and Cuyler
and having to use the city buses and you know shopping, and the integrated situation, I
became involved with the NAACP group. And when I was at Savannah State we had a little
protest and made some changes. So that was the extent of my involvement.
LS: What were you protesting at Savannah State?
RB: Just rights, of the students. The college itself was putting a lot of money into the city from
employment angles, and from the students from the students that were coming here living. So
we felt that we were putting that much money in we should have equal rights, too.
LS: So you werent protesting the university?
RB: No, no. Oh no.
LS: As a university group you were protesting against the city.
RB: Correct.
LS: Were you aware of any activity that was taking place during that period within this
neighborhood?
RB: Well they used to have the afternoon of marches. Anderson St. was one of the main march
streets that they would have.
LS: Where would they start the marches?
RB: They started on West Broad and went all the way to Dean Rd. and take Victory Dr. and carry it
downtown, West Broad.
LS: Tell me a little bit about who would be marching?
RB: Basically during that time it was students, I mean it was adults too, but the students.
LS: High school, college?
RB: High school students, and college students. And one of the concerns was to have Savannah
High, which was in the center of that area, integrated, then the students wouldnt have to go all
the way over to Beech. Because at that time it was it was Beech and Tompkins and Johnson.
Those were the concerns.
LS: Ok, so we would have some marched coming along this side?
RB: Oh yes, that is correct.
LS: Are you aware of any meetings that occurred at St. Pius High School which is just outside of
our boundary?
RB: Well that was a Catholic school, basically the enrollment was Catholic, but that was the center
for meetings at that time. We didnt have the W.W. Law Center and a lot of the meetings had
to, well they didnt have to, but they took place there and in area churches.
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LS: Who was meeting at St. Pius? Would it be NAACP youth, would it just be NAACP?
RB: I think youth in general. Persons who werent concerned about their parents.
LS: Can you name any other people that were either involved or became leaders from this
immediate community in the movement?
RB: Well, shes deceased now, Miss Dorothy Taylor lived across from Spencer School.
LS: On Wheaton St.?
RB: Correct. Officer John White, whos retired, was one of the first, Luther Kruger was the first,
Afro-American policeman. My aunt, Alma Tisdale.
LS: What was her involvement?
RB: Just churches. Getting churched involved and getting the opinions through the church. And
really at that time the church was taking the lead in most of the things that were taking place.
The Jacksons, they lived on Henry but now they are on Gordonson.
LS: What were there first names?
RB: His name was not Samuel. His son is the dentist. I forget his first name right this minute but,
is Jackson. There were quite a few persons, a lot of them are deceased.
LS: What other churches in the neighborhood besides St. Pius housed activities?
RB: St. James on East Broad. St. Paul right here on Waters. Those were the main churches. And
then Second Arnold later was in this community, but we had other churches outside that were
very, very active.
LS: Wheres St. James, on Waters and..?
RB: No, St. James is on East Broad.
LS: What was the second one you said?
RB: St. Paul. Its right on Waters near Wheaton.
LS: Ok, I got off track a little bit, but what do you, how do you feel about the current revitalization
thats going on in the neighborhood thats related to the Hope 6 project?
RB: I think its a good idea. I was always, not against, well I guess I was against public housing
when you set aside a group of people with everything designated alike. But I think Ive met
some very good people that live in housing. Some very good students that went through
college and high school that lived in housing. But, people have a habit of identifying you with
where you live, where you work, what car you drive. And when they started with Blackshear,
with leaving some of the homes there to identify with homeownership, I thought that was a
very good idea. So I am still for the idea of Hope. There will be homeownership and
everything will not look alike. You know, I think its a good idea.
LS: So it stresses the individuality of the property as well as the person.
RB: Correct.
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LS: Are you planning on taking advantage of any of the city programs that are offered in
conjunction with it, like getting money for fixing up houses?
RB: Well, I probably will but my problem has always been whenever I would go to get some funds,
because there are things that need to be done on this house, the income level. And I think
thats bad because people may make a lot but then you have to spend a lot. And right now
with my husband being ill and my mother being ill, medical is real expensive. They dont look
at that, they dont at, but it took me almost three years to get a ramp for my mother. So I said
Im not going to wait for a program thats going to put a ramp up there and pay for it. And the
same day I called the man to come out, they called me from the city and said that they were
going to be able to do the ramp. But see they included my income with her income, so thats
what happens with a lot of programs. And I know with the business we were never, though I
fought, I mean fought, the business development council so businesses could get loans. It
was hard for us to get one. I mean we could get one to fix up the outside, but you need cash
flow. That money did not come with it. Now its better, you can get money for cash flow. But
then it wasnt like we got fifty thousand dollars for renovations on Waters for businesses. But
running the business day to day operations and have the funds to do what we needed to do.
But we did get some nice things happening. I used to be president of the Waters Ave
Business Association. We did get some nice things going on. But the business association is
not active. But we still go around to welcome new businesses and hopefully theyll stay. But
its a day to day thing to get them to please put flowers in these planters, because you dont
know what I went through to get the city to put these planters out here. And they were
expensive planters.
LS: When did they put the planters out?
RB: The planters were in, like, 76. And they lasted until now.
LS: When did, when was the Waters Avenue Business Association active?
RB: Well we got active as a result of the zoning problem and they put housing services on 41st and
Waters. And that was one of their goals to get the businesses organized. And we became
organized at that time.
LS: The early 80s?
RB: Yes.
LS: And when did they sort of sort working with it?
RB: Perhaps around the middle part of the 90s. Possibly about 92, something like that.
LS: Do you remember when they renamed Live Oak Park to Benjamin Van Clark Park?
RB: It would have to be in the 80s, I dont know the exact year.
LS: Was there a ceremony or?
RB: Oh yes, there was a ceremony.
LS: Did you go?
RB: Yes.
LS: Do you remember anything about it that you can tell me?
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RB: Well it was the usual, you know, everybody from city council and the mayor. And the
members from the, it wasnt called the Van Clark Association, they had another name, were
there.
LS: Did the residents come out?
RB: Correct, yeah. Most of them were members of the Eastside Council at that time. And as they
defined the different areas for the different neighborhood councils, thats when we split from
Eastside. And then Eastside became Eastside concerned citizens instead of just Eastside.
And so, you know.
LS: Was that an amicable split?
RB: Yeah.
LS: You still worked together on things?
RB: Correct, yeah. And they meet at the same place at that W.W. Law Center. Bur Eastside has
its own building now, but prior to that both associations met there.
LS: I think we touched on most of my things, do you have something you would like to as about
family or buildings, or businesses?
RB: I still think that the community, although you see daily the improvement as far as
homeownership and housing, you still see empty buildings on Waters. Hopefully businesses
will come in. The problem we have with businesses coming in is the burglary and theyll be
here for a while and then theyll leave. I see that changing. And I do know that most of the
streets and lanes are being paved and kept sort of clean. I think we need to do a little more
with the lighting, and I guess that may be across the city, but in this area the lights sometimes
are very dim. I think we need to do something with the lighting. We started with the business
association, one other thing was beautification with the trees and the spaces and the sidewalks
and so were doing a good job with that, and if they can continue that. But every month or so
businesses, theyre not staying, but theyre moving in. And thats a good sign. And a lot of
young people are moving in with businesses. So I hope that will stay. And people will stay in.
I see a lot of For Sale signs and that bothers me too. But I would hope people would move in
and stay, take ownership.
LS: Let me ask you one final question, the boundaries of the Benjamin Van Clark Neighborhood
take in a lot of area, several, what could be, smaller neighborhoods within it, what makes the
Benjamin Van Clark Neighborhood unique and special? What makes it different from Eastside
or going over, you know, to Live Oak, what makes it special?
RB: Well, I really, I dont think theres anything that makes it special. Im afraid of them having to
divide the spaces because, you know, its so spread out. But, if you notice this particular area
has larger homes. And more space. The homes are not just jammed in, that makes a
difference. And its surrounded by main streets. You have Henry, Anderson, you have
Wheaton, you have Bee rd., finally got he bypass. So that makes it a little different. We only
have though, but its not that far, the elementary schools. But there is no space to build a
middle school or a high school, but that would have been a good addition if they would do a
little more renovations on Riley. And not that I have a problem with it, instead of having it as an
alternative school, we could make it like a middle school or something.
LS: So you see that as an alternative school?
RB: Oh yeah. And as far as I know we havent had any problems with the young people there.
That was an issue when they first opened it. I think it was more of an issue because the
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residents werent involved. You know, you drive by and see this is happening. I think if there
had been more communication prior to opening the alternative school we wouldnt have had
that situation. But I dont think anyone complained about anything that happened as a result of
the students being there.
LS: Well maybe it is better to have them there than to have nobody there in the building.
RB: Well the building maybe was empty about five years. There have been various programs
there. City funded programs, federal funded programs, its just that public schools have not
been back in. Thats a school. But the building has been in use. The youth school was in
there for a while. The little program that I worked with called project Yes, a summer
employment program, was in there.
LS: Project YES was a summer employment program?
RB: Yes, correct. My son went away to college, came back, and couldnt find a summer job. For
years when I worked in the college I worked with J.T.P.A. and he said you find jobs for
everybody and you cant find me a job. He said you got to get me a job, and there were two
other friends of his, and they couldnt find anything. So then we came up, we were just talking
saying some things, and we came up with project YES. Youth Employment Strategy Council.
And we had kids twelve years old through eighteen, and college kids running it. The twelve
year olds stayed in the classroom learning skills in the classroom, how to go on the job, dress
for success, stuff like that. The fourteen through eighteen were actually volunteer interns in the
summer programs. That when it started was for Waters Avenue Association. And all of the
businesses on Waters had these kids in there as interns and they learned a little bit about what
was going on their community. And then it expanded to other communities and other
positions.
RB: Last year I was just burned out. I mean burned out. Because you have to go solicit funds for
it, there was no federal grant. Two years we did get some money from public ventures. But
other than that it was through donations from churches, and city groups, individuals. And thats
a year planning. And last year I didnt have it. But this year they are already started calling me
about this year so I guess Ill have to do it.
LS: Sounds like a very good program.
RB: Yeah it was, because last year it was really, really a bad year for employment. There was just
nothing.
LS: With general employment down.
RB: Yeah and even the fast food places had adult and senior citizens working in them. So it was
just really bad. I felt bad about it but I was just burnt out. I just had to take a summer for
myself.
LS: Well, I really appreciate you talking with us. It was very informative.
RB: Ok, I enjoyed it. Well, I hope so.
-End of interviewTranscript prepared by:
Luciana Spracher and Kate Ryan
Project Historian Project Intern