LS Today is August the 27th 2003. This is Luciana Spracher, project historian for the Benjamin
Van Clark Neighborhood Documentation Project of the City of Savannah's Department of
Cultural Affairs. Today I am speaking with Marie Green, resident of the neighborhood, at the
W.W. Law Recreational Center in Savannah, Georgia. Our project is focusing on how the
neighborhood has developed or changed as a result of transportation, desegregation and
current revitalization efforts. I'm going to start with a couple of background questions and then
we'll get into those themes. Could you please state your full name, including your middle
name and a maiden name, if you have one?
MG Marie Lewis Green.
LS Okay, um, please state your birth date and place of birth.
MG Eight, the eighth month, the eighth date, 27 year, Savannah, Georgia.
LS Okay, and I'm going to ask you to please state your race to help us understand the
demographics of the neighborhood.
MG Colored.
LS Okay, what is your current address? And if you don't want to say the street number, you can
just tell us the street and block.
MG Well, 829 East Anderson Street.
LS Okay, when did you move to this neighborhood?
MG In 1967.
LS Okay, and why did you move here?
MG Well, raising children I had a chance to purchase a home reasonably, so it's what we did.
LS Okay, so you were a property owner right from the beginning?
MG Um, hum.
LS Okay, did you ever leave and come back to the neighborhood?
MG No.
LS Okay, now if this is before your time, just tell me and we'll move on. Do you remember
streetcars in the neighborhood?
MG Yes.
LS Okay, what did you call them? Did you call them streetcars?
MG Streetcars.
LS Um, do you remember what colors they were?
MG If I'm not mistaken I think they were yellow.
LS Yellow. Um, do you remember how much fare you would pay?
MG No, because at that time I was, thinking of, a little small, and I didn't have a chance to ride 'em
(inaudible).
LS At this time where were you living in Savannah?
MG We was on Third Street, off of Wheaton.
LS Off of Wheaton?
MG Wheaton Street.
LS Okay, is that where Blackshear Homes is now?
MG Yes.
LS Okay, so you went from that Third Street to Anderson Street?
MG We went from, no we went from Third Street uh, oh Third Street, Wheaton Street, Bolton
Street, all this time growing up, till I got married.
LS Okay, so you lived in basically, you lived in what is now considered Benjamin Van Clark almost
your whole life, but you sort of were moving from north to south?
MG Yes.
LS Okay, um, getting back to the streetcars, where would you get onto them?
MG It was right on, !think it was Wright Street.
LS Okay.
MG And that's where the car bam is now. And you go out Thunderbolt way.
LS So you would go out Thunderbolt on it?
MG It goes off around Thunderbolt way.
LS When you would get on the streetcars where would you go?
MG Well, they had, it was just like buses. They had different places you would go. So uh,
(inaudible) streetcars, trolley cars (inaudible).
LS So you'd go downtown?
MG Um,hum.
LS Um, did you know any of the conductors by name and did they live in the neighborhood?
MG No.
LS Okay, and you've already mentioned the car bams on Gwinnett Street. Did any of the people
that lived around you work there?
MG Yes, quite a few people. In fact, we had one of our ministers of our church work there for quite
some time.
LS And what was he doing, do you know?
MG He was something like an errand boy.
LS Okay, I want to move on and talk a little bit about desegregation and Civil Rights. Um, the
neighborhood you lived off in, off of Wheaton Street, was that a predominantly white, AfricanAmerican or mixed neighborhood?
MG Mixed.
LS Mixed, a little bit of everybody?
MG Everybody.
LS Um, was it mostly residential or was it a lot of businesses?
MG Mostly residents.
LS Okay, and the neighborhood that you live in now on Anderson Street, when you moved there
in the sixties, was a white, black or mixed neighborhood?
MG Mixed.
LS Mixed as well. Okay, have you noticed any shift in the population in the neighborhood, from
white to black or vice versa?
MG Um, hum, most of the whites have moved out. Cause when we moved there, it was a white
family next door, and the next was white; so we was the only colored in the area at the time.
But now irs predominantly black, except for one house down the street. Of course you know
that they remodeling these houses now so anybody could buy them, move in and fix them up.
LS Um, hum.
MG So irs getting back-to-back.
LS Yeah, when did you, when did you notice that the change really started to go more towards the
black community?
MG Well, in, it must have been '67. It must have around '70, '71, '72. That's when they started
moving out, all blacks started moving in.
LS Why do you think while people moved out?
MG Most of them, if they didn't go in high-rise, or move way out, they went urn, well, left the city,
where they were at. But I know there's a lot of them coming back But they didn't want these
great big old-fashioned homes. Now they're coming back and fixing them up.
LS Okay. Urn, during the Civil Rights period did you notice any, urn, protest activity that was going
on in the neighborhood around here?
MG Mmm-mmm.
LS None at all? Okay, do you know of any but, any neighborhood residents that maybe became
leaders in the city as far as uh, leading in Civil Rights movement?
MG Yes, Ben Van Clark. Oh so many I can't remember. It was Ben Van Clark. And he was very,
very active. The one this park is named after. And there's others, quite a few others. Quite a
few young people. My children was young then, but they partying and marching, sitting in and
whatever.
LS Your children did?
MG My children did.
LS How old were they at that time? Were they college, high school?
MG High school.
LS High school. And what high school were lhey going to?
MG Beach High.
LS Beach High. And uh, they would go downtown on Broughton Street?
MG Broughton Street, yeah, wherever, Gwinnett (inaudible).
LS Okay, urn, are you aware of any, urn, meetings that were held at Saint Pius High School?
MG Yeah, cause we do know, I'm right down the street from Saint Pius. Urn, hum.
LS Did your children go to those meetings do you think?
MG Well, not all of it now, there's a lot, there's a lot of the meetings we didn't attend.
LS Uh, hum. Okay, urn, do you think that the Civil Rights movement and the integration of
schools and beaches and restaurants played any, urn, part in the desegregation of the
neighborhood?
MG Well, I think so. I would think so.
LS Okay. Urn, now I want to ask you a lillie bit about some of the revitalization today. How do
you feel about, uh, how did you feel about Garden Homes when it was still up and running?
MG Well, now, in a sense at first, we all know when Garden Homes first was built it is
predominanlly white. And through the years, then it became integrated. Then it just became
all black. But to me, they did a great thing when they tore it down. For instance, they let
anybody move in there. And I don't know whether they screened or what they did. But uh, for
like Garden Homes now, and Blackshear Homes, people had their old homes back up in
there, now irs a project. But there was very seldom anything going on bad in Blackshear, you
know. But now that they fixing to start up Garden Homes again, I don't know.
LS Okay. That was going to be my next question, was going to be how do you feel about the new
project and the mixed use? Um, how do you think that the Hope VI, six, excuse me, Hope VI
project is going to affect the neighborhood and your property when it is finished?
MG I don't know, cause the way I understand it, they're fixing to have Park Avenue or Third Street
going back with all these houses. Because since they made Anderson Street a one-way
street, Henry is a different area, so many wrecks, and you know, ...
LS When did they make those one-way?
MG Oh, must have been 10 or 15 years ago.
LS Okay, so when you moved into your house on Anderson, it was a Wlo-way street?
MG Two-way street.
LS So it must have changed a lot when they did that.
MG Um-hmm.
LS And in what ways?
MG Well, now that the traffic is going one way we have more wrecks, more wrecks. Anderson
Street. (Inaudible) there was Wlo-way but now there's just one-way, one going this side and
one coming this side. But now they have a lot of wrecks and I'll tell you another thing, Henry
Street is being beautified now, but Anderson Street, the trees, the shrubberies and everything
they don't do nothing to it like they used to. Had a wreck up there this afternoon, because the
man had to pull too far out to see the car coming and was. They used to keep it, the street,
pretty and it used to be a beautiful place. But now it's just, ...
LS So it's, you think, um, the one-way streets kind of cut you off from the rest of the neighborhood,
as well as sort of, it, it's a detriment to your street?
MG No, I think the one-way is fine. The only thing you need to try to keep it more beautified like
they used to do years ago.
LS Okay.
MG Cause we have what you call a ghost tour come down here Wlo or three times. And then she
go right down here, and I don't see what they see. With the trees, and all the things there, you
know, and beautiful surroundings.
LS Okay. Um, are you planning on taking advantage of any of the city programs that are being
offered in conjunction with Hope VI?
MG Uh,hum.
LS And what, what programs?
MG Whatever they offer that will be of a benefit to me and my family.
LS Okay, um, how long have you been involved with this neighborhood association?
MG Well, I've been involved with it for quite a number of years. I hadn't been attending meetings
like I was supposed to, and they. I've been Block Captain for quite some time. But then some
of them are high enough that they've got away from it (inaudible) like, the people that's running
it now are pushing it more than the ones that had it before.
LS Uh, huh. So how do you think irs benefiting the neighborhood today?
MG It's doing wonderful. Doing real good, real good. Just wish some of the neighbors would
advantage of it.
LS Okay. Um, I wanted to ask you if you remember what the general attitude of the neighborhood
was when they renamed Live Oak Park to Benjamin Van Clark Park?
MG No, to me I think everybody thought that was a beautiful idea.
LS Okay. Um, before I go on I want you to back to Blackshear Homes, knowing that you lived in
that neighborhood. How did you feel when they, uh, tore down the older homes to make
Blackshear Homes?
MG It made me sick, because I was born over here. Me and my sister born. And we lived over
there when I first got married, and I just, well irs just something they had to do. Quite naturally,
it will cut your heart to see something that you know all your life coming down and then you're
supposed to. Even my church was over there, and we had to move when they come in.
LS And what church was that?
MG That was First Friendship Missionary Baptist Church.
LS Okay. Um, I'm just going to ask you, um, what, have you noticed any significant changes in
the neighborhood since um, during your time, this could be the population, architecture,
landscape, businesses?
MG Uh, huh.
LS What kind of changes?
MG Well, there is a lot of changes. A lot of the grocery stores have been torn down. I noticed
Rick, Rick Glass, something, is over there. And they seem to have a pretty good business.
Now the icehouse used to be on Harmon Street. But I don't, irs not too far from there now, but
I noticed across the street was owned by the icehouse and those Rick Glass, Glass that you
had there. Then you have some Blackshear Recreation Park, or something now over here.
And they've widened Wheaton Street and the buildings (inaudible), I mean, it's just, the years,
they have really, uh, improved a lot, because the streets were narrow.
LS Did you notice, did Harmon Street change when they put Blackshear Homes in, did it change
and go at an angle?
MG Um,mmm.
LS Okay, so I had heard that but I wasn't sure.
MG Yes.
LS Um, and then I was going to ask you, if there was anything else you would like to add about
anything?
MG Nothing more than that I was born and raised in the neighborhood. And I mean well, I just took
care of my children, all was born and raised up here. Of course, I don't, I have one son in
Washington and one in Germany, and I have two sons here and a daughter, and my grands
and my great-grands whatever have you. I mean, it's, when you're born and raised a place
you know it all your life and know most of the people, I can't say anything but, I mean, irs just, it
was just nice.
LS Okay. Weill want to thank you for your time Mrs. Green, you've been very helpful.