Oral history interview of Kenneth Brenner

Collection:: Veterans History Project: Oral History Interviews
Title:: Oral history interview of Kenneth Brenner
Creator:: Gardner, Robert D.
Brenner, Kenneth, 1920-2014
Date of Original:: 2004-07-01
Subject:: World War, 1939-1945--Campaigns--Italy--Sicily
Landing craft
Liberty ships
Penicillin
Phlebitis
Judaism
Submarines (Ships)--Germany
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Grubb, Sydney
Flumm, Sydney
Brenner, Benjamin, 1895-1959
Brenner, Leah, 1900-1999
Brenner, Everett H., 1926-2006
United States. Army. Infantry Division, 26th
United States. Army. Infantry Division, 66th
Boise (Cruiser)
United States. Servicemen's Readjustment Act of 1944
Location:: Algeria, Oran, 35.69906, -0.63588
Aruba, 12.5, -69.96667
France, Saint-Mihiel, 48.88855, 5.541657
France, Saint-Nazaire, 47.2733517, -2.2138905
Gibraltar, 36.13333, -5.35
Italy, Calabria, 39.0565974, 16.5249864
Italy, Lampedusa, 35.51113415, 12.5962913596296
Italy, Palermo, 38.1112268, 13.3524434
Italy, Palmi, 38.3577082, 15.8621809
Italy, Pantelleria Island, 36.8314576, 11.9450395
Italy, Strait of Messina, 38.10990345, 15.5776900851532
Italy, Taranto, 40.54881555, 17.0805801245474
Malta, 35.937496, 14.375416
Mexico, 23.634501, -102.552784
People's Democratic Republic of Algeria, Oran, Mers el Kebir, 35.7279, -0.7081
Tunisia, Bizerte, 37.083333, 9.583333
United States, Chesapeake Bay, 37.96186, -76.17834
United States, District of Columbia, Washington, Anacostia, 38.8665, -76.98386
United States, Florida, Clay County, Camp Blanding, 29.94686, -81.97324
United States, Georgia, 32.75042, -83.50018
United States, Georgia, Atlanta Metropolitan Area, 33.8498, 84.4383
United States, Massachusetts, Essex County, Lawrence, 42.70704, -71.16311
United States, Massachusetts, Essex County, Lynn, 42.46676, -70.94949
United States, Virginia, City of Norfolk, 36.89126, -76.26188
Medium:: video recordings (physical artifacts)
hi-8
Type:: Moving Image
Format:: video/quicktime
Description:: In this interview, Kenneth Brenner describes his experiences as a sailor in the U.S. Navy in the Atlantic during World War II. At the time of his graduation from high school, the Great Depression made it difficult to find work, so Brenner wanted to join the Navy. He describes in detail his life in the Navy, including sleeping in hammocks, immunizations, and shakedown cruises. He remembers conducting bombardments of Panzer units and 88mm guns on the beach and being attacked by aircraft. Later, he was sent back to Fleet Command School in Norfolk, Virginia, and recalls that difficult journey, including traveling in cattle cars in the deserts of North Africa. He was then sent to a fleet tanker, which traveled in convoys of destroyers, escorts and Liberty ships. He was again sent to school, this time to train in LSRs, built for the invasion of Japan, but while he was there, the war ended with the surrender of Japan. He continues by narrating the service experiences of his father in World War I and his brother, who was in the Army in World War II.
Kenneth Brenner was in the U.S. Navy in the Atlantic during World War II.
KENNETH BRENNER: My name is Kenneth Brenner. I was born October 12, 1920 in Lynn, Massachusetts. I now reside at 44595 Village Oaks Circle in Atlanta, Georgia. ROBERT GARDNER: This interview is being conducted July 1, 2004, Atlanta History Center. Interviewer is Robert Gardner. His daughter Marsha Brenner Cruise is also in attendance. Mr. Brenner, what war or wars did you serve in? KENNETH BRENNER: I served in World War II, in the Navy. I joined July 20th, 1942. I am the product of two immigrants; my dad came to this country as an infant back in 1895. My mother came here in 1912 as a twelve year old girl. I have graduated Lynn Mass. High School in 1939 during the Depression, and unfortunately at that time there, it was the height of the Depression. It was very difficult to get a job, and I wanted to join the Navy but my mother wouldn't let me because I was only eighteen years old. In 1941, when the war broke out, 1941, I joined the Navy in July and was sent to the training station at Newport, Rhode Island at Cardigan Point. On arriving there we slept in hammocks, which I have never slept in again. But, they are the most comfortable hammock that you'd ever want to sleep in. They were warm, they wrapped around you, and it was really, we looked forward to actually going to bed at night, but we didn't have these bunks. The first week I was there, unfortunately, like we all did, we all got KP. The second week, well, actually that same week, we got our injections. And what did I do but I picked up a four to six in the morning security guard position with a temperature. God knows how sick I was at that time. So, it was real uncomfortable feeling, and I said, what am I doing here? But after training, it was no problem and we were shipped out. I was shipped to the fleet school as private, 6th Company in Norfolk, Virginia, which is at NOB, Naval Operating Base. I served there as an apprentice seaman for six months and then was put into a draft to board the USS Boise, which was in Philadelphia being outfitted after being in an engagement in the Solomons and having taking a tremendous hit in the number two turret, which disabled her, and she was brought back to Philadelphia to be refurbished. On boarding her, we found that we were—I was assigned to the Fire Control Division, as an Apprentice Seaman, or Seaman Second Class. I have the diary here that I had kept from the time I boarded her, and on July 8th, 1942, June 8th, 1942, we left Norfolk, Virginia after a shakedown cruise in the Chesapeake Bay. On the 19th, without even, which was eleven days later, we found ourselves going through the Straits of Gibraltar to North Africa. We ended up in Oran at Mezalcabar [PHONETIC] on the 20th of June then on to Algiers the 21st. Then from the 21st through the 28th we did maneuvers in the Mediterranean in preparation for what, nobody knew. On July 7th, we left Algiers, and on the 8th we arrived in Pantelleria. On the 9th we were up Flapaduser [PHONETIC] and British Malta. On the 10th, we were at the invasion of Sicily, and the invasion took place, a town called Gela, or Jala [PHONETIC]. I have some photographs here that were taken by a photographer from the Life magazine. His name was A. Herman [PHONETIC]. And this would give you an idea of just what had happened during the invasion. The one incident that was very important to me and to all of us aboard ship was the fact that we had spotters on the beach, and the afternoon of the invasion, which started at daybreak, we got the word that a Panzer division was heading for the beach. And we were ordered to fire on these Panzers so they would not push our troops back. And we set up salvos, being spotted by the spotters on the beach, that told us that we had driven them back, which saved our troops from being driven back into the waters, which was very, very exhilarating as far as we were concerned. On the 14th, we left Sicily and went back to Algiers to take on ammo and supplies. In the course of taking on the ammo from a barge, we were anchored out in the harbor, a ship blew up in the harbor itself caused by swimmers that were more or less partisan to the Germans. And I remember capping a five inch shell on my shoulder from the barge to the, where we were going to put her below decks. And I ended up under water in the currents, which wasn't funny at the time. Let's see, then we left for Bizerte, North Africa. And in Bizerte, we got there on the 23rd. On the 24th we went back to Algiers, why we went to Bizerte, I don't know. On August 4th a ship in the harbor exploded, another one. On the 8th we left for Palermo, Sicily. On the 9th in Palermo Harbor we experienced the water so calm in the harbor that it was like a sheet of ice, and I remember our morning exercises when we were doing the jumping jack, we created waves that they didn't know they were going to get ashore. Plus the ship bumped in and out of the water just like a cork bobbing in the water, which we thought was hysterical at the time. You know a little humor always went a long way where we actually, more or less morbid all the time with the daily routine. On the 12th of August at midnight, this was when the American troops were forcing the Germans back along the Northern Coast of Sicily to the Besena Straits, to the toe of Italy, and our orders were to bombard the roads. To delay the—which was mountainous roads—to delay the German troops from evacuating Sicily. At that, at midnight, we bombarded along the coast of Northern Sicily and then we went into Cape d'Orlando and Cape Calabria and bombarded the harbor where the German troops were evacuating from Sicily. When we returned, we returned to Palermo that afternoon. On the 14th, back to Cape d'Orlando and Cape Calabria, we patrolled the area, and on the way back to Palermo on the coastal road in Sicily, which is a mountainous, as I said before, road, a German 88 came out of a tunnel and shelled us. We at that turn changed from regular shells to penetrating shells. And we closed the tunnel up in order to save ourselves to begin with. We did get some hits, not on the ship itself, but short of the ship, which actually gave us. I remember being on the range finder, I was a fire control man and my position, GQ position, was a number four turret on a range finder. And on the phones from the after control, bridge control, in a slot, a look-out slot, from the—well, one of our fire control man was maybe six inches by twelve inches where a piece of shrapnel penetrated and hit one of our men in the shoulder. And it was an eerie feeling to hear, “I'm hit, I'm hit” over the phones, because all our phones were connected from the after time control to the turrets, gun turrets. On the 14th, we heard that afternoon, because on the 17th we heard that Sicily had fallen, much to our elation. On the 18th, we bombarded Parma, Italy at midnight. We did all our shelling at midnight it seemed, and it was quite a sight to see the explosions up on the shore. MARSHA BRENNER CRUISE: Is that what is on the magazine? KENNETH BRENNER: Yeah. MARSHA BRENNER CRUISE: Do you want to show the magazine? KENNETH BRENNER: No, that's all Sicily in the magazine. On the 18th we left Palermo for Algiers, and on our way to Algiers, we were attacked by aircraft off the coast of Bizerte. On the 19th we were in Algiers, on the 24th we were then, we went between the 19th and the 24th and the 31st, we were every day out on maneuvers. Then my diary stopped at that particular time. And we were on our way; we picked up troops in Algiers, British troops, not knowing what we were going to do because we were not a transport ship for troops. And instead of going up into for the invasion at Solarno, we took these troops into Toronto, which is in the heel of the boot of Italy, and put them on shore to travel up the east coast of Italy, while the troops, our American troops, were being put ashore at Solarno Bay. On our way back to Algiers from there, I was on the bridge as a telephone talker from the gunnery officer to the secondary 525 inch batteries. My lieutenant who was in charge by the name of Howell, Lieutenant Howell came on the tech, came on the bridge, and said to me, “Brenner, I have your replacement here. Give him your phones.” And I looked at him amazed. I said, “Why are you taking the phones away from me for?” He said, “You're going to school.” I said, “Are you kidding?” He said, “No.” There was a draft of two fire control men, one fire control man, a draft from the radar division from the gunnery division, there was maybe twelve of us from each division aboard ship going back to Norfolk, Virginia to go to school, back to the school where I had been as ship's company for six months, first six months of my service. Well, then it was a hassle from there. We were put off in Algiers and from there we were put on a disabled LST with a bad rudder. And we traveled from Algiers all the way to Oran, which took about ten days, where normally we did it in one day with a cruiser. From there we were put into a tent city and I know all of the sailors, and a lot of soldiers know about living in a tent city, which to me was not very pleasant. We then were put on a train, box cars with open slats, cattle cars. And for three days we traveled back to Oran, went from Bizerte, not Bizerte, we went to Oran from—I'll say from Algiers to Oran by LST. From Oran, let's see now I'm getting my stories mixed up here. Well, anyway we were put on box cars and it rained, it was cold. The nights were very, very cold. This was I believe in September, and the nights in North Africa are beastly cold. And the next morning we pulled into a train station and we saw a wagon full of hay, bales of hay. We made a dash for the bales of hay, threw them on the box cars for a bed to sleep on. That night it rained, talk about smelling like we were cattle. We were cattle, and then when we got back to Oran, I'm getting my cities mixed up. We were put on a British ship to go back to the states. Getting back to the states, I spent another three, four months at the school. At that time I became a Fire Control Man First Class. And unfortunately I was supposed to have been shipped back to the Boise, but being in the Atlantic Command, the Boise was sent back to the Pacific and they were not going to send me out to the Pacific, where they were now under the Pacific Command. So, they assigned me to a ship, a fleet tanker, which was called the USS Mattaponi. Now as most sailors will know, in those days battleships, battleships were named after states, cruisers were named after cities, capital cities. Light cruisers, capital cities. Submarines were named after fish, destroyers were named after personnel. The Mattaponi was named after an Indian tribe called the Mattaponi Indians, which is the Indian tribe north of Boston, which is south of Lynn, south of Boston, where Lynn was north of Boston of the Mattapan, town of Mattapan, Mattapan Mattaponi, “Mattapony” I called it at that time. Ironically, and I spent the next year and half on the Mattaponi taking, being in convoy, troop convoy, liberty convoy ships of six nights which took thirty days to go across the ocean. We must have made twenty trips refueling the destroyer escorts and the destroyers for these convoys. By early daybreak, before daybreak we would be sitting in the middle of a convoy. And we were pulled back out of the convoy, behind the convoy. And at daybreak each one, on each side, port and starboard, two escort ships would come alongside to be refueled. And at that time, I became a Fire Control Man Second Class, and I was in charge of the sharpline gun from the bridge from Captain to Captain for the—during refueling. We had quite a few breaks of hoses at times, when ships would part away from us and it would just extend out. And the poor ship, poor sailors aboard would get drenched with sea water plus the oil before they could cut the lines. At that time, we had a doctor aboard ship, he was a sweetheart. He would call everybody up and give them a shot of liquor when that happened. Nobody had [any]. The only ones that had booze aboard the ship were some of the officers. And they always had a little bit of alcohol around, and even though I was [unintelligible] bridge and they were after the bridge at the well decks, I would go and get my little nip. When we hit, the last time I was on the Mattaponi, I got orders to go to school, the fleet school in Washington, D.C., which was in Anacostia, and while I was there Hiroshima got hit. At that time I had married my wife, my girlfriend, which my daughter and her brother is a product of, and we went to Washington. And we lived in Washington for two months. And during that time we were being prepared to train to be Fire Control Man on LSR's for the invasion of Japan. And LSR's were no fun, because being Fire Control Man would be controlling the fire and we would only be off the shore for about a mile, two thousand or three thousand yards off shore. And we weren't looking forward to it and fortunately Hiroshima became the end of the war, actually. And when I returned home, I did not go to school but my, two uncles of mine were in the auto upholstery business, which I took advantage of with the GI, no, I didn't take advantage of it, because I took advantage of that to buy my first home. I'm just trying to think, it's so long ago, almost sixty years ago. Instead of the 52/20 that was at that time we had $20.00 a month or a week for fifty-two weeks. I went to work as an apprentice for my two uncles who taught me the trades of being an auto upholsterer, convertibles tops, seat covers, and replacing upholstery in automobiles. Then I went into business for myself. And that's about it. Now getting back, I don't remember if I had, actually what I have here. I think I have pictures; you have pictures already of this. Getting back, now what I would like to do is actually show you the two ships that I was on, and this is a picture of crew of the Boise, which I am very proud to have served on during the invasion of Sicily. Now this is a picture of the Mattaponi, and if you'll notice there are PT Boats on the well decks of the ships that we had transported over to North Africa in one of our convoys. Now at the fleet school, this is a group picture of my class. And if you'll notice I am in the second row, third from, as you look at the picture, from the right, which you probably won't recognize. I look like a little twelve year old kid in there. In fact at the age of twenty-two there, I did look like a fourteen year old little guy. These are pictures that were taken by the airman, by the junior airman showing the invasion of Italy. And this is the starboard side of the five inch twenty-five's in action. That's the top picture, and on the bottom shows shells bursting on the shore. This is still out of Life magazine. Now this is the night action showing the tracers of the bombing and invasion of, at the time of the troops approaching the beach. Now here are a few more with the Nazi planes attacking the troop ships, and also the burst off our starboard side of shells hitting the water, aircraft shells or bombs. Now on this page, I am going to show you a picture of a troop transport with the troops leaving the ship, and the second photo down is of an LCT coming alongside our ship with wounded, and then on the bottom of the page there is a picture of our captain inspecting us after the action when we get back to North Africa. And I have a little story to say about the one with the LCT. It's quite a coincidental story, a coincidence where a friend of mine who I went out on double dating, who I had met my wife through, is a motor mechanic on that LCT. His name is Sidney Robb, graduated the same year as I did in high school. At the age of eighteen he was bald, which he had more hair on his body than he had on his head, which is very common. I don't have much hair on my body, but I do have it on my head. He came alongside with two German badly-wounded men and two Americans. We had aboard the cruiser, we had an operating room with a full staff of physicians. They were brought aboard because they could not be treated on the shore at the time. I don't know if I'm one of the sailors looking over the side of the ship at that time onto the LCT, but I spotted this little bald headed guy who didn't have his sea cap on, and I said, that could be Sid, and I yelled down to the LCT, and I said, “Sid Robb”, and he looked up and it was Sid Robb. MARSHA BRENNER CRUISE: And where were you? KENNETH BRENNER: I was on the ship. MARSHA BRENNER CRUISE: No, where in the world were you? KENNETH BRENNER: This was in Sicily, at Sicily. This is D Day plus two. Well, he had put troops with his LCT on the beach, came ashore, I came aboard and we had a conversation for about a half an hour before he had to get back to, aboard on his ship, his supply ship, or troop ship. When I, now that we have all the pictures, this by the way is a diary that I kept which is, this is two-sided, of the daily activity of the ship, of port to port to where. Now as far as Sid Robb is concerned, when I got put ashore, I got put ashore, I said Algiers but I think it was Bizerte, North Africa, who do I run into but Sid Robb again. And now these two months later, a month and a half later after the Sicilian Invasion and he told me he was being shipped to England. And when he got to England he was supposed to do the same thing for Normandy as he did Sicily. But fortunately for him, he got sent on the V-12 program back to the states, MIT, to go school, which was a great program. And he graduated as an electrical engineer, an industrial engineer. And I since then I've only seen him maybe two or three times. In fact, we lost contact. And I've lost contact with a great many of my friends. In fact there was one man in particular, when I was with ships company at NOB, who was a machinist, a motor machinist on the Yorktown, not the Yorktown—yeah it was the Yorktown that they lost in the Pacific, and his name was Sid Flump [PHONETIC], and he was badly burnt at that time, but he was one of the fortunates that did get off the ship. He was assigned as an instructor at the school, on the Machinist Mate School that we had at NOB at the Fleet School, and I became very friendly with him. And every time we'd get back, which my home port was Norfolk Virginia, I ended up seeing him at the school and then he had married and had a son. And they were living at Ben Burrell which was housing at the fleet school, there was a housing project called Ben Burrell where he had in turn lived with his family, and still taught at the fleet school. A little over a year ago, no six years ago, when my grandson—oh, by the way I have two grandsons, my son has given me two grandchildren and I'm not going to go into their education and how brilliant they are, which I'm very proud of. My grandson, when he graduated and married in Virginia, my son took us over to NOB, which I'm not [easily] impressed but I was really amazed the way that has grown from the time I was there in Norfolk, Virginia. And we went by the Ben Burrell area, and just unbelievable where the Norfolk base, which was where the air base was, and the fleet pier is now extended almost all the way into Norfolk, Virginia, into the town. Where it was nothing but empty space, which the only way we would get into town was by street car. And it just, I'd love to get in touch with this Sid Flump again if I possibly could. And I have a picture at home that I [could] bring in where I was on the Mattaponi, of another shipmate I was very friendly with, where we went ashore like in Aruba, an oil island at that time where we took on oil. Was just like here like Stone Mountain downtown with oil damage, and he and I were being on shore patrol, had a picture of us taken with the belt, the leggings, the whole outfit, which I treasure. And he's another one that I can't remember his name, but if I could ever find out if he's still living, I would love to meet up with again. It's just amazing. Now I am retired after being in business as an auto upholsterer. I ended up in a city called Lawrence, Massachusetts, working for a manufacturer of men's clothing. And in the last forty years I've learned the trade. I had my own custom, made-to-measure business of making men's clothing. At the age of eighty when my mother, God bless her, died at the age of 101 [and] left us, my daughter who is now here in Atlanta for twenty-six years said to me, “Dad, what do you want to stay up in that cold country up there? Come on down and live here in Atlanta, and live without the snow and the sleet, and everything that goes with New England.” And I said, “Well, I'll think about it.” Two days later I have a lock on the door on my business, told my son to take over the building, run the building that I owned, or the bank owns. And my daughter came up and sold everything but my bedroom set and the dining room set, refurbished a home down here, and I'm extremely happy after three years of being in Atlanta. And I say to everybody, “Come to Atlanta, it's great.” And now, just getting back to my dad, who was the 26th Infantry. MARSHA BRENNER CRUISE: In World War I. KENNETH BRENNER: This is World War I. And this is what he received on his discharge explaining which I believe is being knighted, and on the bottom it says, “Benjamin Brenner, Private First Class 26th Infantry.” MARSHA BRENNER CRUISE: And where was he in the world, in his military? KENNETH BRENNER: And he fought, his first wounds were received at the battle of Saint Merhill [PHONETIC], then when he went back to his unit . . . MARSHA BRENNER CRUISE: Where is Saint Merhill? KENNETH BRENNER: French, and when he went back to his unit he was wounded again, and unfortunately his wounds, here are his medals and his identification plate, and that's, you'll see the Purple Heart with an Oakleaf Cluster, having being wounded twice. And unfortunately he suffered with one of his wounds for the rest of his life, where he died at sixty-four years of age from a wound in the leg that was before penicillin became affordable, which is the swelling of the calf, which until as I remember as a youngster, until penicillin was discovered, he would be in the Army or Navy hospitals once a year to have treatments where it would ulcerate on him. And because of that particular wound he had problems walking, to a point where he would stand up like a stork to take the pressure off the bad leg. MARSHA BRENNER CRUISE: Tell us about his military service? KENNETH BRENNER: Well, he went into the service, he went to New York, and he joined the Army in New York. And he was shipped after his basic training, he was shipped to the Mexican Border at Rio Grande. MARSHA BRENNER CRUISE: When do you think he went into the military, what year? KENNETH BRENNER: Oh, he went in about 1916, 1915. And in 1917 he was in France until 1918. When he came out he met mother when he came home to Lynn, where he was one of seven children. He was the baby, so to speak. And he came home to Lynn because he wanted, he told me a few times that he would have liked to stay in New York but he came home because of his mother. And he met my mother while he was visiting, when he came back. My mother and he met at what you call a “Fireman's Ball” in those days. And they were popular, “Policeman's Ball, Fireman's Ball”, and he immediately took a liking to her, and he asked her to marry him. And unfortunately my grandfather was very orthodox, a very orthodox Jewish man. And my father was a wounded veteran, and didn't keep the faith so to speak because he ate non-kosher foods. He said, he's not for you. And my father's oldest brother went and spoke to him and explained to him what the situation was, and he finally agreed that they could get married. MARSHA BRENNER CRUISE: Where else was he stationed in the world besides France? KENNETH BRENNER: Just in France. MARSHA BRENNER CRUISE: I thought he was in Mexico? KENNETH BRENNER: Texas and the Mexican border heading down to Rio Grande. And I don't know, my brother by the way, I guess I'll throw him in. Was with the Black Panther division, he was drafted when he got his training in Camp Blanding, Florida, and was part of the Black Panther Division that were sent to England. And when the troops, when the Germans counter-attacked at the Bulge, they were slated to go in to relieve, to reinforce the troops at the Bulge. And his ship was delayed in the English Harbor, and they didn't know why, because part of the crew, six hundred of his division shipped out the day before, and they were torpedoed crossing the channel, and they lost over six hundred men on that crossing, and that is why his ship was delayed. So, instead of them going to relieve or reinforcing his division, reinforcing the Bulge, they were sent to Saint Nezar [PHONETIC], which was a pocket where the German submarine pits were, German submarine units were, to contain the German troops in that circle that they held them to. And what can I say. Like my mother used to say, “Leah, what have you got to say?” She'd say, “What can I say?” And, God bless her, she lived to 101, and she was a sweetheart. Thank you, Ma. ROBERT GARDNER: Well, I want to thank you for doing this interview with us. It's definitely been my pleasure, and I really appreciate you taking the time to come here and do this for us. KENNETH BRENNER: Oh, it's my pleasure. ROBERT GARDNER: Thank you so much, sir. [END OF INTERVIEW]
Metadata URL:: http://album.atlantahistorycenter.com/cdm/ref/collection/VHPohr/id/412
Additional Rights Information:: This material is protected by copyright law. (Title 17, U.S. Code) Permission for use must be cleared through the Kenan Research Center at the Atlanta History Center. Licensing agreement may be required.
Extent:: 46:01
Original Collection:: Veterans History Project oral history recordings
Veterans History Project collection, MSS 1010, Kenan Research Center, Atlanta History Center
Holding Institution:: Atlanta History Center
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