Oral history interview of Robert Powell Barclay

ROBERT P. BARCLAY WWII Oral Histories January 15, 2004 Atlanta History Center Interviewer: Bob Gardener Transcriber: Joyce Dumas [Tape 1, Side A] Interviewer: It is January the fifteenth, two thousand and four. This is an interview with Mr. Robert Barclay, Three Three Five Two, Creatwood Trail, Southeast, in Smyrna, Georgia. Born ten, twenty-five, nineteen thirty-two. The interviewer is Robert Gardner. The interview is taking place at the Atlanta History Center in Atlanta, Georgia. Mr. Barclay, can you tell me what branch of service and the war that you served in? Barclay: Yes, sir. I served in the United States Air Force during the Korean Conflict. Interviewer: Were you drafted or did you enlist? Barclay: I enlisted. Interviewer: Where were you living at the time? Barclay: Douglasville, Georgia. Interviewer: Why did you join? Barclay: My uncle was chairman of the draft board and he said my name better not come up in front of him. That's kind of a little family joke, but I just thought it was the right thing to do. Interviewer: Why did you pick the service branch you joined? Barclay: Because my uncle who raised me had served in the Air Force and I was interested in mechanics and aircraft, things like that. Interviewer: Do you recall your first days in service? Barclay: Yes, sir. Interviewer: What did it feel like? Barclay: Kind of lonesome. I mean just, you know, hadn't spent that much time away from loved ones and family. Interviewer: Can you tell me about your boot camp or training experiences? Barclay: Well, I think anyone who's ever been in boot camp remembers that. Waking up at two o'clock in the morning and getting your toothbrush and scrubbing the floors and being screamed and yelled at all the time. And none of it made sense at the time. It does later on. It's to teach you discipline, which I think I lost the lesson but that's what it's for, really. But it was not pleasant. Interviewer: Where was your basic training at? Barclay: Lachlan Air Force Base in Texas, San Antonio. Interviewer: Do you remember any of your instructors? Barclay: My drill sergeant was a fella by the name of Arthur Lister. Very mean gentleman. He was African-American and he did not like anyone from the South. I'm not gonna say he would pick on them, but it kind of seemed that way. Interviewer: How did you get through it? Barclay: By the grace of God. [chuckles] No, you just…one day at a time. Actually, basic training wasn't as long as it was supposed to have been because of the fact that they needed people overseas right away. Interviewer: Did you have any prior military experience before you went to basic training in the Air Force? Barclay: Yes, sir. I was in the Army National Guard as a machine gunner and I was squad leader. Interviewer: And did you go through basic training for the Army also beforehand? Barclay: Yes, sir. Took basic training in South Carolina and I was just trying to remember the Fort. Fort Jackson. That's what it was. Fort Jackson, South Carolina. That was like…you'd spend two weeks each year at Fort Jackson. Interviewer: And having previously gone through Army basic training, did that kind of give you an edge in the Air Force training? Barclay: I think it helped. Yes, sir. Got me used to be yelled at. [laughs] Interviewer: Did you go to a technical school after basic training? Barclay: Yes, sir. Went to University of Embry-Riddle down in Opa Locka, Florida. And that was real rough duty. Put us up in a hotel and being right there next to Miami, it was kind of hard to stay awake the next day during classes, but it was…oh, very nice. Interviewer: What type of training did they … Barclay: It was aircraft and engine mechanics. Embry-Riddle is…I think at that time was rated second in the nation as an aircraft training school. People paid a lot of money to go to Embry-Riddle. Interviewer: Which war did you serve in? Barclay: It was the Korean Conflict. Interviewer: Where exactly did you go? Barclay: Well, our squadron was…had three bases. One was Ezuki [phonetic], Japan; Kimho [phonetic], Korea; and Naha, Okinawa. Interviewer: Where exactly did you go? Barclay: My first stop was in Japan and then from there to Okinawa. That's where I spent most of my time was in Okinawa. I did make some flights over North Korea on a temporary duty status as a gunner, only because they were short and as soon as they got a new supply of gunners, I was put back in…this was like thirteen days, thirteen missions…I was put back with my maintenance squadron. I was a crew chief at that time on an F-94, which was an all-weather fighter. Interviewer: What type of aircraft were you in when you were temporarily assigned as a gunner? Barclay: B-29. Interviewer: Do you remember arriving at your first duty station and what it was like? Barclay: Yes, sir. Mass confusion. [chuckles] No, it went fairly smooth. They issued a barracks and we had…well, actually it was Quonset huts. They had a lot of typhoons over there so they were metal building tied down with cable. And you were, of course, introduced to all the superiors. You were chosen by your training as to what you would be doing and I was assigned as a crew chief and had several gentlemen working with me on the particular aircraft. Interviewer: Were there many casualties in your unit? Barclay: No. Actually, we were not, other than the time that I was TDY to the bomb group, we were not in harm's way. I was just thinking the other day. It kind of reminds you what's going on in Iraq now, because there were Communists in Okinawa. Even though it was peaceful, you still had to watch your back because they were out to get you. But it wasn't…it wasn't as bad as Iraq, not near as bad. You just had to be careful who you associated with or got around. Interviewer: When you were assigned as a temporary gunner, did see combat? Barclay: Yes. Yes, I did. Interviewer: Could you describe that? Barclay: Well, actually we were making bomb runs over North Korea and you'd be attacked by some MIGs and fortunately, I never was or my ship was never hit. That is not to say that there weren't some shot down. There were casualties in that bomb group and I was fortunate to just be there long enough to be a little scared. [chuckles] Interviewer: Did you have to fire at any enemy aircraft? Barclay: Yes, sir. Interviewer: Tell me about some of your memorable experiences during this time. Barclay: During my time as a mechanic? Interviewer: Both as a mechanic and also as a temporary gunner. Barclay: Well, like I said, it was just a very short time as a gunner. I was put with a different crew most every flight. So you never got close to anyone. I mean I didn't get close to anyone. You'd introduce yourself and you'd joke around with the other gunners and the pilots were all…even though they were officers, they would…you didn't have to act like you would if you were meeting one on…but you didn't salute. When you were on the flight line, you never saluted. You'd say, “Sir”. And your own pilot you usually called by his first name just like he'd call you by…he wouldn't say, “Sergeant”. He'd call you Bob. And so…it was kind of informal. Interviewer: As a gunner on a B-29, what did you have different…ah, places that you were the gunner on the bomber? Or was it the same all the time? Barclay: Actually, I was placed as a waist gunner, which…you kind of…look at your body. Waist gunner would be on the side. Interviewer: Can you tell me about some of your experiences when you were working as a mechanic? Barclay: Well, basically it was just a straight routine. I was fortunate enough to be at Kadina [phonetic] Air Force Base. They closed down Naha, which is the southern end of the island, to rebuild the runway. And sent us to Kadina Air Force Base, which was on the north end of the island where the bomb group was and we shared one side of the field. Well, we shared the same runways. At that time, the North Korean pilot is—I was trying [inaudible] he was North Korean or Chinese, Because they fought together—defected to Okinawa with the first MIG. And I guess now they have MIG-25s or something like that. I can't even remember the designation of this one. It was one of the early ones. And they flew two gentlemen from the United States over there to test it. They were pilots. One of them was Charles Yeager, which you probably know the name and at that time it was Major Charles Yeager, later to become a general, and a Captain Tom Collins. And I never heard any more about Captain Collins, but I have followed the career of Chuck Yeager. Got to meet him. Wished that I could have seen him again, you know. Probably never will but, I guess you know if you only have uh…was it Andy Warhol who said you have fifteen minutes of fame and it was getting to meet Chuck Yeager. Interviewer: Your experiences as a crew chief and aircraft mechanic, were there any battle damage done to the planes that you were crew chief on? Barclay: Quite a bit, yeah. Quite a bit. Now all of our heavy maintenance… planes would come back to Okinawa for engine replacements and heavy damage. The light maintenance was done at Kimho, Korea. So you would move back and forth as needed. Interviewer: Were you awarded any medals or citations? Barclay: Well, I was trying to think. Of course, everybody that…there's an old saying in the Air Force which I can't put on tape. [laughs] But they said the Air Force got quite a few medals just from drinking beer. [laughs] But I got to Japan in time to be included in the Japanese occupation force. So I was awarded the Japanese Occupation Medal. Everybody gets a Good Conduct Medal if you don't shoot the wrong person. And there was a United Nations Ribbon. I remember that one. There was something that mentioned Korea and I don't remember exactly what that was. And fifty years later…well, all during this time the President of South Korea was trying to award us ribbons and medals for helping defend his country against the North Koreans. And oh…about three or four months ago, I finally got mine. It was fifty years before the government would let the Korean government give them to us. Interviewer: I see you have them there. Could you hold them up individually? Barclay: Yes, sir. This is the actual ribbon itself with the medal. Normally on your uniform, you don't wear the medal, just the upper part which is the ribbon. And this is the one that was issued by the president of South Korea. Interviewer: That's wonderful. Barclay: And this is the declaration that he wrote, both in Korean and English. Interviewer: [tape glitch] I also noticed that you have the envelope that the certificate came in. That it has a [inaudible]. Barclay: Well, the reason I kept the envelope is because it has…feels like there's something inside. I don't know what it is. But, it has the presidential palace seal, which…I have a Korean dry cleaner who was a child when I was over there. And he jokingly calls me “Papa” when I go. [laughs] But now he is the one that actually explained to me that this was an official seal and very hard to come by and that I'd be wise to keep it. Interviewer: It's really nice to have people remember you for things that you did. Barclay: It is. I was, you know, I figured, “Well, I went and did my part,” whatever it was. You sure don't get a lot of thanks when you get back home. At least I wasn't mistreated as bad as some of the Vietnam veterans. But not as good as some of the World War Two veterans. But this came as quite an honor to me, I thought. Interviewer: I think it's wonderful that they remembered, that they still [inaudible]. Barclay: I did too. I was surprised. Interviewer: How did you stay in touch with your family overseas? Barclay: Just writing, you know. At that time you didn't e-mail or things like that. We wrote. I know for my birthday, my twenty-first birthday…as I mentioned before, I was raised by my aunt and uncle and they placed a call to me. It comes through a MARS operator, which…radio telephone is what it is. And that brought a few tears to my eyes, you know. Being able to talk to them in person. Interviewer: What was the food like? Barclay: The food was good. It wasn't bad. It was very nutritional. I need to kind of go back on the same diet. [chuckles] Interviewer: Did you have plenty of supplies? Barclay: Plenty of supplies. It wasn't, you know, like you see in “MASH”. We weren't on the front lines. Interviewer: Did you feel pressure or stress? Barclay: No, not really. Interviewer: How about when you were temporarily assigned as a gunner? Barclay: Well, as I mentioned to you before, I'm kind of a fatalist, you know. What will, will. You know, you'll go when it's your time. I didn't want to hurry it up. But yes, there's a little bit of tension. I suppose had the plane that I happened to be on at the certain time had been shot up or heavily damaged, there would have been quite a bit of stress. That's…even though I hold a pilot's license, I don't like heights. Don't put me on the roof. Now, I'll fly a plane, but don't put me on the roof. I always dreaded the thought of jumping out of an airplane. And these people who go skydiving now, I wonder what's the sense out of a perfectly good airplane. If it was going down, I could see it. Interviewer: Was there something special you did for good luck? Barclay: No. No. Interviewer: How did people entertain themselves? Barclay: I'm sad to say that the only we had to do was drink. Interviewer: Were there any entertainers, such as USO shows or things like that? Barclay: I remember…I never did see Bob Hope or a big star like that. But in my own little world, Roy Acuff came to our base. And that was…I enjoyed it very much because being from the country, I enjoyed country music. I like all music, but Roy Acuff's always been one of my favorite entertainers. Interviewer: What did you do when you were on leave? Barclay: Well, they called it R and R, rest and relaxation. I flew to Japan. If I'm not mistaken, you could get three-day passes, but you couldn't go anywhere because you couldn't go anywhere and get back in three days. You could lay around, walk around the villages and shop. But when I got two weeks, I went to Japan and stayed and bought a couple things like cameras. And just enjoyed the nightlife. Interviewer: Do you recall any particularly humorous or unusual events? Barclay: I had a staff sergeant who was also a crew chief. He had the same job I did. He had a higher rank. I was a buck sergeant. He was a staff sergeant. And he brought his family over to Okinawa. And he most the most powerful person and I can not for the life of me think of his name. I've got pictures of him at home, his whole family, his son, his wife. But he would keep you in stitches. I mean, he just…more or less my mentor while I was over there. Because I…like I say, I spent my twenty-first and twenty-second birthday overseas. I had gone in when I was just turned nineteen, I think. So you know, being from a small town, I wasn't worldly, shall we say. Since then, I've spent forty-five years driving a tractor trailer in forty-eight states and two countries, Mexico and Canada. I consider myself a little more [laughs] versed in traveling. Interviewer: What did you think of your officers and fellow airmen? Barclay: We had…you'll find, or I found that pilots are some of the nicest officers you'll ever find. They're not your General Pattons and that type that scream and shout orders. Their life depends on you. Some would come over with a bad attitude and maybe I shouldn't mention this but some of them would find, upon inspecting their parachutes, when you pulled the ripcord these pins come out of where it's packed and that employs the chute. They would find that somebody had bent the pins over. [laughs] So you could pull on it all day and nothing would happen. And that was, you know, kind of a…they always inspected before they went up. I mean, there's no chance that they would have been caught that way. But it was kind of a change-your-attitude message. Interviewer: Did you keep a personal diary? Barclay: No, sir. Interviewer: Do you recall the day your service ended? Barclay: Yes, I do. I had come back to the United States. Was stationed at Kenross [phonetic] base in…just south of Sioux Saint Marie, Michigan. I think the name of the base now is Kinchlow [phonetic], but at that time it was Kenross. And I had come home on leave, gotten married and taken my wife back to…we rented cottages. We could have had dependent quarters on base. But there was the…it was right in the middle of the Minoscon [phonetic] Forrest up there. And the game warden had a general store, service station, what all and a bunch of cottages. And we would…he would rent those cottages to married couples. And we just found…it was very primitive. I mean, you know, just a small ugly…it had a small kitchen, one small bathroom, I mean bedroom and bathroom. But it was nicer for newlyweds than being stuck, you know, in the middle of a base. And I do remember saying good-bye to everybody and getting my final papers and going by and picking up my wife and heading home. Interviewer: What did you do in the days and weeks afterwards? Did you work or did you go back to school? Barclay: No, I had to find a job right away and immediately went to Lockheed, where I stayed until they started a pretty good-sized layoff. I forget exactly how long I was there but, having the experience I had, I started out on the assembly line and then became an inspector. Helped build the first C-130 to come off the line. There's been no telling how many since then. But I wanted to follow it down to the flight line and my supervisor was real upset because I wanted to leave the inspection department, cause he evidently was happy with my work. And I went ahead and transferred with the plane down to the flight line where I was one of the first ones to run up the first C-130. Had to run…”run up” means to, you know, run your engines and everything. I forgot what they called [inaudible] run up ticket card and a taxi permit. Then there was a big layoff and I had a chance to go back to assembly at a substantial cut in pay and I decided not to do that. So I then got a job with Ryder Truck Rental as a truck mechanic and just took up driving for some extra money. Like I'd work all night and then if they'd…I was on the night shift. Worked till about twelve and if they had a trip to go pick up a broken-down truck, you'd get in the wrecker and go get it. And I'd make all those trips and then that evolved into driving full time. Interviewer: Did you make any close friendships while in the service? Barclay: I'm sorry? Interviewer: Did you make any close friendships while in the service? Barclay: Quite a few. Quite a few. One of my closest friends was from Ohio and he was Polish. And I, to this day, can spell his last name. Never seen him since we left from overseas. But his name was Kowalcisz [phonetic]. He was a very good friend. And also the family that…I told you about the staff sergeant. I could just kick myself for not remembering their names. But they were very close. And then, you know, you shared a Quonset hut with twelve, fourteen other gentlemen and I use the term loosely. [laughs] And you had to get along. I mean, I can't remember any serious incidents. We did have one gentleman. He got what we called at that time a “Dear John” letter. His fiancée wrote him, said it was all over and everything and she just couldn't be away from him that long, so she had found somebody else. And he was on…they called it CQ. Strange, I can't remember…company clerk duty that night. And some people in the Quonset huts closer to the office heard the shot and he had stuck a .45 in his mouth and ended his life. So, that was the only, that I can remember, tragic event that I went to. I had never seen anybody kill themselves at that time. Interviewer: Did you join the veterans' organization? Barclay: I've been in the American Legion and Veterans of Foreign Wars and I just don't fit in. I'm not a joiner. You know, I didn't even join the church. I was afraid they'd…you know, call them up for duty or something. No, that's not really true. But I just…you know, I found that basically it was a place to get a beer on Sunday and I didn't stay active very long. Interviewer: Did your military experience influence your thinking about war or about the military in general? Barclay: Well, yes sir. I'm not exactly sure what you mean, but yes. I paid close attention to Vietnam, Desert Storm and the Iraqi War right now. Interviewer: Do you attend any reunions or have you attended any reunions? Barclay: No. No. No. Interviewer: How do you think your service and experiences affected your life? Barclay: I don't think it's had that much affect on me, except my children swear that when they were little, they'd have to call me “Sergeant Daddy.” That was just a kind of…a little family joke. But as far as doing a lot of thinking about it, I don't. I'm not scarred in any way, other than what cancer gave me. Couple of scars from that. But not mentally. I never have been too right anyway up there, so [laughs] not much to influence. Interviewer: Is there anything that you'd like to add that we have not covered in this interview? Barclay: Not that I can think of, sir. I guess some people are different. Being in the service has kind of made me a hawk rather than a dove. And it's been…I know it's been the opposite for others. I mean like, you know, seems like a lot of people don't like to support our troops now and what they're doing. Whether you believe in the administration's objectives makes no difference. You have to support our troops. They're doing exactly what they were told to do, what they were trained to do and there's great sacrifice going on. Well, there has been, always, in any time of war. But I just think that people should show a whole lot more respect to…especially to combat veterans. That's about the only thoughts I have nowadays. Interviewer: Thank you so much for doing this interview. It has been my pleasure… Barclay: No, sir. It's been a pleasure talking to you. Interviewer: …to conduct this. I really, really appreciate you taking the time to come down and do this interview with us, sir. Barclay: Well, in a way it was sort of an honor. [chuckles] I appreciate you choosing me to speak to you. Interviewer: Thank you. Thank you so much. Barclay: Thank you, sir. [end of tape]