Oral history interview of Moreton M. Rolleston, Jr.

Collection:: Veterans History Project: Oral History Interviews
Title:: Oral history interview of Moreton M. Rolleston, Jr.
Creator:: Chandler, F. C.
Rolleston, Moreton M., Jr., 1917-2013
Date of Original:: 2004-05-11
Subject:: World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Operation Overlord
Kirk, Alan Goodrich, 1888-1963
Tilman, Don
Emory University. Lamar School of Law
Coca-Cola Company
Charleston Naval Shipyard
P-38
landmines
hedgehogs
BIGOT list
buzz bombs
Location:: United Kingdom, England, Plymouth, 50.3712659, -4.1425658
United States, Georgia, 32.75042, -83.50018
United States, Georgia, Atlanta Metropolitan Area, 33.8498, 84.4383
Medium:: video recordings (physical artifacts)
mini-dv
Type:: Moving Image
Format:: video/quicktime
Description:: In this interview, Moreton Rolleston, Jr. describes his career with the U.S. Navy during World War II. He was in college at the time of the attack on Pearl Harbor; he describes the effect of that event. He attended intelligence schools in Washington, D.C. and New York City. He describes his arrival in England and his work mapping the coast of Normandy in preparation for the invasion. He recalls his feelings as the invasion began and displays original maps that he helped make.
Moreton Rolleston was in the U.S. Navy during World War II.
Chandler: _____________Today is May 4, 2004 ____________________________ our guest is Commander Moreton Rolleston. He is going to tell us the story of Naval ___________ World War II. Rolleston: Let's get this straight I'm just a lieutenant commander but that's alright. You can make me a commander if you want to. Chandler: Tell us _____________ ____________ Rolleston: Well I'll start from the very beginning to the way I got associated with the Navy. I was at Emory University in the Law School, it was the last year in May of 1941 and the Navy came around to Emory and was offering commissions without going to school _____ and so I was I figured the war was about to come on anyway and so I got a commission in May of 1941 right there at Emory. I graduated from law school in June of 1941 and this hasn't got any to do much with the Navy but its my life and I passed the law exam in Georgia in July. I got married in August. I went on my honeymoon then I came back and tried find a job to work while I was waiting for the Navy to call me and I worked for a while in the legal department at the Coke Cola Company. As a matter of fact, when I used to be in the Glee Club at Emory, we were rehearsing much of us who worked at the Coke Cola Company for Christmas carols and one of the officers for the Coke Cola Company on Pearl Harbor day and about 10 to 10:30 in the morning the word came in about Pearl Harbor and I don't think we ever sang Christmas carols __________ ______ that's what happened. How many people know what it _____________ ___________ Pearl Harbor? ______________ a lot of folks do. Anyway, this will make you interested cause it happened, I had a job but it wasn't a permanent job with the Coke Cola Company in the legal department. So I got tired of sitting around and waiting because I couldn't get a job, nobody wanted to hire me and I knew I was going to go in the service sometime soon. So I went over to ____________ ___________ of personnel department and went up to an old lieutenant commander at that time the lieutenant commander was an old fellow and I asked the gentleman, I said you know I got to do something, I can't just sit around here and hope to have a job I've got to make a living, either call me to this darn Navy or let me go. Let me out. That old fellow looked at me and said son if we were to call you you wouldn't be wanting to and I left. Well in January of 1940, _____________ __________ I was first stationed in Johnson Navy ________ in the Intelligence Department. I stayed there for almost a year and then I was sent into the Navy intelligent school in Washington, D.C. for a month and then from there to Navy intelligence school in New York City for four or five months and then I got orders to go overseas and left, I think it was the end of September. Let me see what year would that be 42 and I spent three ______ in a landing craft ___________ ____________ we had a bunch of small landing craft engine and then I had a real interesting experience. Admiral Adam G. Kirk who was the commander of all American naval ____________ services in invasion, came down to inspect this little base that I was so called in charge of and we had most of 300 men that morning when he came in and in the Navy when you do something ok let's put it that way, you usually get a job well done. That's about the only accommodation you ever get. I thought that was pretty good. I didn't have that _________ ___________ ________. I knew he had been __________ intelligence in Washington. I knew he had also been in the Embassy in London____________ _______. So, I went to the chief of staff and asked him how I could get to see him, cause I wasn't doing anything _____________ ___________ sitting around waiting and the rest of those guys _________ called me up that night and he said well you ___________ ______________ where admiral is staying tomorrow morning 8:00 o'clock for breakfast. Here's a little innocent __________ walking into admiral having breakfast and telling him I thought I ought not be where I was and I knew he used to be head of Naval intelligence and I was an intelligence officer and I wanted to be somewhere else. ______ __________ in a month I was in his ___________ ____________ in the office and my transcript ___________ February 1. We were, our group was in Navy intelligence ___________, we did everything. We had about six of seven, in fact I even wrote all their names down in case you wanted to ask me about it. Not all of them. I can't, __________ let me have ____________ ________ but we had a fellow from Pennsylvania, a fellow from Baton Rouge who was a architect and one from California, I can't remember his name ______________, _________ from Connecticut and a lawyer from Boston and he's dead now and a man who was a curator of a museum in Detroit, Michigan and a couple other fellows as well as our commander and also the lieutenant commander and a fellow named Captain ______________. It was the __________ ___________ all of us. So we had ____________ _____________ ___________ related _____ __________ we had that small of a group, but we had a squadron of P38s which is the fastest plane in the world at that time. It runs a 500 miles. This squadron _______ southeast in England and flew the French coast along the English channel everyday almost everyday taking photographs because we couldn't fly just one place cause then they know where we wanted to land and I got as I told you earlier, I have photographs taken from the P38s and one of these shows P38 shadow on the ground on the beach and German guys just running everywhere because they thought they were going to get shot. We were just taking pictures. Beautiful photographs. I'm trying to retrieve though they are in storage right now. But we photographed the whole beach and then our group would take those photographs and mark where hedgehogs were which would tell them where the giant jackstones that had the bombs on the end of them which were all over the beach and we could actually tell from the photographs where they were putting mines in the land because the pattern of the lay of the land mine showed in the photographs. We had a submarine that took a picture offshore that was added onto some maps we made and from all that we prepared our little old crew prepared the landing maps for the American Navy to British Army and the American Army. British Navy didn't want to use them. They are an independent bunch of folks so they wanted to use their own which is ok. I've forgotten how many. There were several thousand of them. But they were top secret is the highest classification secrecy in the Navy ___________ _________- call not only top secret but bigot. That was the trade ___________ name that they __________ ___________ highest secret _____________ Highest secret ___________ I think that they would have in the Navy. They may have some other times. ___________ ____________ It was a nut case in getting _______________. So, I was real lucky. I kept some of those maps which I've told yall about and these maps show pictures of the shore from the submarine, pictures from above which are all the obstacles they put __________ on the beaches, the land mines, patterns on as they went up of the hills to get off of them and a lot of other _________ information we got off of ____________- _________ primary. They had some informals, not much though, most of it being photographs. We prepared all those things and they were distributed _________ eventually to every ship that went on the beach but only just before the landing. One of the innocent things about it, you might remember that the invasion was postponed one day at least. I forgot how many because of the weather. In those days they didn't have all the weather equipment we've got today and the meteorologist for the Navy was doing his best to tell ___________ what the weather was going to be like so he postponed it one day and that was big gamble because all these maps I was telling about had already been distributed to every ship sitting in the Harbor. But anyway they kept them in they didn't let anybody off the ships. They didn't move ships and ____________ _____________ call over there from ______ ______ boat when they wanted to inspect this ships that and they wanted people all over the ships and thought these people __________ __________ anybody at the shore to approve had one of these maps ______ small landing craft__________. So they sat there for a long time and into the next day and no one knew what was going to happen, but at the time of the invasion our crew the intelligence crew and we were the only intelligence crew for the U.S. Navy in Kirk ____________- Kirk was the commander of all America Navy Forces and the Invasion. He was __________ _________ cruiser ________ but on D-day I was sitting in the office about 3:00 a.m. in the morning because I knew what was going to happen. I couldn't go to bed, I didn't want to go to sleep and we started getting reports back all kind of ways. The innocent thing, I saw most of 2,000 airplanes fly over London that morning. One right after the other. It was a combination of a lot of things, but those planes destroyed or tried to destroy every beach, every bridge over a area between __________ beach and ________ was __________ ____________ probably knows that _________ defeated himself. _____ wanted to get to the ______ of beach is with the tanks and Hitler delayed it was either one or two days, I done forgotten. If those tank had gotten down wheel trying to crown those beaches they may never have gotten ___________ _____________ _____________ __________ slaughtered people from __________ _________ . So Hitler defeated himself really. There are other people passed his chair I've read about it ______- that did the same thing. In other invasions ___________. ____________ ________ ______________- _________. But when he got beat I know a story _____________ ___________ ___________ the Migraine headache the morning he was supposed to go ___________ ______ in three hours or more _____________ get out there. By that time he was already to pieces. I guess because he had a migraine headache. Anyway, our job was over after the invasion started, because the only thing we were doing were preparing these maps and what I wanted to do with these maps is preserved them. I'm sure there are others somewhere, but I've had these every since D-day ____________. These are the originals copies and of course they're secrecy from ____________ ________ torn down to just the lowest classification. As soon as the invasion started it says so on the front of them. People ask what are you doing with a top secret map. I say you just read inscription the fine print it says as soon as the invasion starts these are no longer classified documents because everybody has a copy and was going be able to see them. We had a lot of good times to tell you truth. Even though we had a few instances that were so unhappy and we had ___________- flying over us. They had an office ___________ the square like where the American Embassy is on the second floor. One day their ____________ came over and the electricity quit we were all on the elevator going down and here goes the electricity quit and then we were stuck in the elevator for two to three hours ________ ________ going on. ___________ _______________ ___________ __________ _______ ______ Did you quit, they had a big old blue grow up a sweat to let up to stop the so called _______ the stops on the plane. We saw a lot of planes flying over. We saw a lot of those bombs. You could hear the ______________ ____________ cause it sound just like a ____________ ___________ when you come down the road. When you hear that ________ noise you start ducking. Cause as surest to the world, you weren't too far away and you didn't have more than a few minutes to find someplace to _____ __________ __________ when they cut off. We got so use to them, we ducked all the time. The buzz bombs worried the British people more than anything else that happened. When I first got to London in February 1, 1941, 1942, I reported to duty on February 1 and then the German started bombing London to try and burn it down and then bombed it every night for a month __________ ____________ drop bombs. Somebody sit there and watch _________ __________ place burn up. ______ But It was all kinds of experiences. The golden square had a big old blooms of ___________, I ______ the name Roosevelt on it or something like that, but the American Embassy I think was there at that time of course it's a big old beautiful building now. I've been back to Normandy. I've been back to the cemetery. Don't go to Normandy. You might go to the beach, just don't go to the cemetery. Its ____________ __________ but it's a terrible experience. Row upon row of little white crosses about that high. Anybody been there know what I'm talking about. Chandler: You want to stop for just a little? Rolleston: Yeah. Yep. Rolleston: When they started to fire ball London the first thing that everybody did was go down and to get some ____ shelter and a lot of people went down to the pew in the underground expressway. You never saw so many in_________ of people in __________ clothes in the underground in your life including the naval officers was with not their wives. We had in our ___________ bracket as being the __________ _________. Let's don't, I won't call it by _________. But we had a naval officer that in our group and soon as they started the invasion we started getting some _____________ and battle from cruises Kirk was on commanding and the reports of how everything was going and this fellow had a girlfriend in London that she kept calling us up wanting to know how he was getting alone. So we submitted a message back to him and said everything is right and he sent a message back to her that everything is alright so we thought ___________ _________ battle of what was happening with the cruiser. ________ ____________ ___________ all kinds of things happened. Everybody _________ ________ for a long time ___________ ____________ tube ________ it _______ _______ on the ground keep from getting bombed. ____________ of that I just I've had to ___________ ________ I just stayed, went on and stayed in my bed and hang with it _________ ________bomb _____ hit me. I wasn't going to stay up for the rest of my life trying to dodge it. But they could have though __________. February was _______ __________ they had fires all over that city. So it was an experience to a bunch of navy guys all planned but we saw a lot of ________ bombs go off. I don't know what else to tell you folks. Chandler: You remember the B2s ballistic Rolleston: The B2s _____________ and we would __________ __________ anxious to get the invasion started before they started shooting those things. We took out most of the landing launching pads. The B2s were responsible for ____________ and you know _____________ come to this country after the war was over and it's a largely responsible for our space program. ___________ it brought a lot of other scientist with him but he was the head man and if it really get in the credit from the __________ the whole program. I might tell you something about these maps we made. They were full color which is kind of hard to do full color and they are pictures of the beach and the land. There's a submarine picture of the beach taken from a submarine with a parascope and all the information about the tides. There's a terrific tide in English channels of ____________ __________ about almost 20 feet. So it depends on where you are from tides 20 feet out. Its very important on the back of it the maps we made the scales so that anybody and any kind of ship could tell where there was getting one at a certain time. What the, how high the tides would be ___________ _____________ __________ of the maps and all those little box everything was the information to any kind of landing craft needed from the little to the big ones. That's why I _________ ones ________ and how much tide it would be, how much current there would be between a crew __________. All the currents are shown on them and we used to have a old __________ several time landing crafts that you take the silhouette and run across it and see where you gonna be at a certain time and when ________ _______. There were a lot of people jumped off landing craft even the small ones and water was too deep and drowned. Because one, they couldn't swim with all the weight from the stuff they had on their back. They just plainly sanked, terrible. If you saw of any of the pictures __________ motion pictures made, made it in Albany, I think they showed several of them ____________. __________ ______ see clearly than the maps _________ _______ one of them up its in full color, the blue of course, the ocean, the green and other stuff at the top of it is the land. It showed all the _________ of what the easiest way to get us to land ______ ______ mark up. __________ when we had to photograph everything really was over there including land mines and then we had another map to start this one. They show all the major guns in the area. There was one of the motion pictures in which they showed a place called Part to Hoc where the marine, who ever they was climbed vertical cliffs about 100 feet the German sitting on top of it shooting at them with guns. Chandler: The Hell of the rangers. Rolleston: Hell of the rangers, and they, remember when President Reagan over there he had a survival he talked to _______ Chandler: I didn't really remember about that. I was about to __________, the sole survivor the line got killed. Rolleston: Yeah, the Reagans was the one Colonel James _____ who was in the __________ Texas A&M was living with his __________ Chandler: Really? Rolleston: Really. Chandler: Did he live through it? Rolleston: He lived through it. ___________ ___________ the reason they would go to _______ at the top of it was the biggest ________ gun the Germans had. I don't know how _________ _________, but the biggest gun they had. We had another map we made that showed the range of all the guns on the coast and when all it was. So, even the big ships wanted to stay out of the range of him if he could. There was Kirk on the straw on the cruiser I'm sure he tried to stay out of the range cause that thing ________ ______ and the map went all the way from Calle to _________. __________ ________ and that was all done by (AAerial2?). ________ when they got to Puerto ________ they ________ their guns to __________ take out the ____________. But there were a lot of Germans up there with machine guns and it was __________. __________ look through a gun but it was already _____ guns were ______ better place they could have swept through _________ ______. It was the biggest guns the Germans had. They could take in both beaches, Omaha was one of them and on the ______________ that ______ it was another called Utah and it was north and south on Moreland and we used to _________ on the other one cause it was entirely different. We made maps of both beaches and the one ______ about the preserve we have kept them of both beaches. Well, what else you people want to know. Chandler: That was a tremendous job. There was so much detail going on. _____ these __________ _____ daily basis Rolleston: ______ ______ Chandler: _____ Rolleston: After we found out what they were doing, we had to keep going ______ kept _____ all the time, and oh, I think the information on _________ indicates the dates the last dates that we were, there is a date on here. It was supposed to be ______ cause ____ we got the information we had to _____ _____ and printed it. Chandler: What a tremendous ___________ I know Rolleston: I would _________ them and then printing ______ and the British Navy, British Army would use our maps but the British Navy wouldn't use them. It was just beneath them to use our maps Chandler: _________ Rolleston: I don't know what Montgomery _______ had anything to do it or not but the British Navy didn't use our maps, or said they didn't anyway. Chandler: _____ I don't think it ever had anything to do with the British Navy __________________. Rolleston: One of the greatest customs the English had is tea time. Well, one day I some of these things just like this to take over to the British Admiral to give to _________ so I kept _______ just _____ Navy all this stuff under my arms and they said would you please have a seat. The people you want to see now, they're all admirals and all that so ______________ said they're having tea. I said “will bring me some tea also.” (laughing) It is a great custom. _________ Another time we had a map _____ almost as big as this table ________ and showed all the elevations and everything we could on that big old thing and rolled out. And just for the fun of it I asked the commanding officer before we go to ship Texas -- Battleship Texas in Belfast. He said “well, you can _____ if you want to but you got to be back tonight. You can leave in the morning – you got to be back tonight and be back on duty.” I said “O.K.” So we go on an airplane, two, three guys had to _________ landing craft there is and took it up to Battleship Texas. The sea was real rough. We finally got on the Texas _____ and by the time we got back though, the plane that was supposed to take us back _________ there I was ___________ he's probably going on this joy trip __________ packed ________ office the next day. The Navy – they did something ________ when we went over seas they asked everybody what they wanted in the way of whiskey. Now I don't drink but I had a whole bottle of whiskey sent to my quarters too. Mostly fifths or pints. I took one with me everywhere I went and just happened to have one when I was there in Belfast. I was in the airport, the plane had already gone, I turned and figured how am I going to get back? There were a bunch of slap-happy Airforce guys over __________ airplanes back _______ from Ireland to England and I talked to them. I said by the time I give you a ride back to England I got to get back ___________ I didn't get very far, so I pulled out my fifth of whiskey and says: “we can _______ give me ride B-17. And so they finally did and they gave me a real rough time. We got over the ROC and I said “how about if I take the controls.” I didn't know anything about flying airplanes that much. They said “sure, you can take it.” We'll show you how to do the _________. So they cut off one of the engines. And they said, “it's alright, it'll fly with just two engines.” They cut a second off ______. I said “forget it.” They cut the third engine off. I flew the B-17 _________ all the way across ROC ______ but when we got to England _________ he says “I only want to do one thing – I want to see how powerful this thing really is __________. I pulled the wheel back in full power. You never felt such a strong thing in your life – it just climbs like that. They said “well, we got to ________.” But the interesting about that they were really pulling my leg. They said “well, it's a shame we didn't get ______ refuel _____ we just forgot to get to gas when we were in Ireland. And he kept talking about they had plenty of gas but they were just pulling my leg just saying we're going to run out of gas. It was a fun experience, to tell you the truth, I _________ (END OF ROLLESTON TAPE 1 - SIDE I-A) (BEGINNING OF ROLLESTON TAPE 1 - SIDE I-B) __________ decide ______ Chandler: No, but I ____________ just three of us in that airplane, nobody else _______ Rolleston: _________ B-17 _________ (laughing) You know what, again, I still don't drink. Whiskey was a rare commodity, especially if it came from the U.S. ________ Burbon _____ I had friends and everything else – I met more friends ________ walking down the street in London, hadn't seen them in years __________ and I stopped him and says “Lincoln, __________.” I gave him a pint of whiskey ______ we went and had lunch together the last time I saw him. But whiskey and the other big _________ you'd be interested in which was highly ___________ was silk ______. It just amazing what silk stocking will do _________. Chandler: _______________. (laughing) That must have been a very interesting assignment. Once D-Day happened, what did you fellows do? Rolleston: Well we gathered up a lot of photographs, a lot of which I still have and we published them. A big old thing of reproduction photographs. That was for the admiral, of course he had to have some sitting around to show to people. So that was our job. We didn't have anything to do after that. All we had to do is get back the states. When I got back to the states I sent to the first naval district in New York City. I sat there for several months. ________ I found out that I had orders to go to Kinushu before the bomb dropped. Japan. We already had an invasion planned for Kinushu, which is southernmost island in the chain, cause it the best beach they could find. I was so glad that bomb dropped I didn't know what to do. Chandler: It probably saved your life. Rolleston: My life and probably 500,000 others. _________. It would have been __________. I would have been one of the too. Then after that I stuck around New York City _________. Finally, I left New York on Navy Day, which is October 30, I think it is. I was still in the Navy until January of 1946. I got out of the navy exactly four years after I was put on active duty. I was a lieutenant commander by that time. But that ___________ much. Chandler: You had your choice of assignments. I don't think you could have found one more demanding or more interesting than the one _____________. Rolleston: It certainly __________ more interesting, anyway. I enjoyed it. Chandler: _________ to be there ________ information. Rolleston: Yeah. If they hadn't had information that our intelligence section provided, it would have been a slaughter. It was slow enough as it was as you've seen in all the _________ but in London that I lost 20-30 lbs. Chandler: What was there to eat? Rolleston: We ate mostly the meals we had were used American Red Cross. The cafeteria restaurant. ____________ the navy guys ___________ were called per diem –they would pay you so much per day over and above your regular pay which wasn't much to eat. But when I was __________ in the Navy my pay was $100________ a month plus ______. I did get some per diem over there and I saved every dime of it till I got home- but anyway, we ate at the Army's commissary which was in the __________ hotel ballroom. But, since we on per diem the army guys knew about it – the officers. They objected. So we could thereafter eat in the U.S. commissary, or whatever you want to call it, cause we were on per diem so we had to go out to find something to eat somewhere __________. Don't worry, that's just ________ routine – crazy things that happens in the service (laughing). Chandler: Common practice. Rolleston: It is. A great big ballroom. I ate there for a month or so. Chandler: ___________ Rolleston: Well that's what I'm talking about. Chandler: I got the wrong one one time – full lieutenant colonel's vest. It went from lieutenant colonel _________ Rolleston: You'd be lucky to get something to eat. Chandler: I think I got the major's mess _______________. Rolleston: I'll tell you another funny thing that happened. I got a room at the Brandy Hotel, at the time is still there. They had a sign up – nobody could stay more than a week – anybody. I'd been there about a month and I finally got the note from the manager that says you're going to have to leave. You've been here more than a week. So I went to my whiskey chest. Got me a fifth of whiskey. I went down to his office, he wasn't even there. I went to the office and put this whiskey on his desk and left it. I never heard anymore – I stayed there six months (laughter). Chandler: ________________ Right across the street from the _________. Rolleston: It was practically a new hotel, nice. Good location. I could walk just two, three blocks and be at the office, which was just down the street _____________ you know where the ___________ is. Chandler: ___________ Rolleston: Well, all my family came from England. In fact there's a town in England called __________. Near Darby. They call it Darby – we call it Derby. Chandler: _______________ Rolleston: Yes, I ___________ purely by accident. The fellow who's an architect in England, in New York City, White Plains they call it ___________ I do know but __________. I tried a case in U.S. Supreme Court one time they took my picture coming down the steps and it was on the front of Time magazine – this fellow saw him and he _________ he was an architect and he told me “you want a family tree?” I says “of course I'd like to see.” Well, I've got connections over there and some of my family is still in England and his father had nothing else to do. He was a retired army officer ________ the next time I went to England I got it from him. Purely by accident. I didn't know anything about it. ______________ Chandler: That's a long way. Rolleston: You darn right it is. As a matter of fact I ___________15 times. And 2 or 3 of those I was chasing ______________________. I had a plaque on the wall about as big as this wall here. I had a friend of mine in London make a ______ of it. Take a piece of paper and reproduce it. Still got it. He was also very _________. This piece of marble _____________. Chandler: ____________________ I did go to a small building that had tremendous cathedral. I walked in there. _________. Rolleston: You're kidding me ___________ Chandler: You know they buried some of their dignitaries in these cathedrals. _____________. Those folks in that town are very proud of the fact that ___________ Rolleston: Well, I had a grandmother born in Birmingham. I knew she was buried there. One trip over there I tried to find the grave. I found the location. It's right next to the church. But, it had been paved to make a parking lot. The whole cemetery is paved in asphalt. No log is left that's some information. Well, at least I found where my grandmother was buried. This is the kind of stuff you __________ (laugh) Woman's voice: Do you want to tell a little bit about what you did after the war and go on a little bit about your legal career perhaps thoughts ____________. Rolleston: When I got back from the good old Navy, ____________ his brother and cousin and sons were all going back to law firms, and you couldn't get a job in firms. I couldn't. I tried my best. __________ I was in the Navy exactly four years. Then in January 1946 I just __________ and a good friend of mine said “he can come up here and have a whole room here for free for the first year and you can use our secretary we can pay her -- and that's where I started practicing law. That room wasn't much bigger – not half as big as the room we're in. I just could get a desk in with a chair for a client to sit down. So I've been practicing law by myself ever since January 1946. There was a time I was renting space with two fellows you may know of – they had a law firm. They just rented me a space _________. Woman's voice: ________ Rolleston: _______________ I just paid the rent _______ in just a short period time I've been on my own the whole time and I've been in all kind of scraps, fights. Some folks like me and some don't. That's the way folks are. I'll tell you something, if you're a lawyer in a lawsuit, a bunch of people – they don't like you for sure. And if you can keep your client liking you – you're in pretty good shape. But the other side thinks you're the SOB. Everybody thinks a lawyer on the other side is a crook. __________. That's routine. So I got use to that. But I've had over 100 cases in appellant courts ________ in Georgia. __________ and I personally argued _______. I practiced law by myself ever since. I've got 2, 3 cases going right now. I got one case in the U.S. Supreme Court that I haven't heard from them. You can't get a case there unless they let you. You file a request called a Petition. You'd like for them to hear the case and try it. And if they think there's enough interest in it for them, they'll say “O.K., we'll let you file a brief and then we'll let you come and argue it.” Now I get one. I got in ______ right now. _____________ I've practiced law in the federal courts just as well as the state courts. ___________ the 5th District Circuit Court of Appeals, the 11th, the 4th. The 5th District included Florida and Texas for awhile. So its all very __________. Well they always ask “what kind of law do you practice?” Chandler: _____________ Rolleston: Something happens to you – you have to retire. ___________ I've been asked “what kind of law do you practice?” My stock answer is: “anyway I can make any money.” And that's a truthful answer. But I've done primary real estate _________. I tried two criminal cases when I practiced law. ______________ If you're a lawyer you can get appointed especially if you're a young lawyer. That's suppose to give you some experience. It's terrible for the clients. Here's a guy who is charged for bootlegging and you have to defend him and you don't know a thing about defending him. And I had one that day. It was assigned to me in federal court. And his wife was charged too but they had him in jail and this inspector went around to the house, not telling who he was or there for, he wanted to buy some whiskey. And she was crazy enough “come with me and I'll show you where it is” (ha, ha). So they made a case against her too. She came into court with 3 or 4 children and the judge acting like Solomon, he said well, I won't put your husband in jail cause he's already been there once before for bootlegging, but you better go home and take care of those children. And she got out of going to jail. Then I had one criminal case which also was assigned to me when I was a young lawyer in Fulton Superior Court. And it was about a fellow who was walking down the street about 2:00 o'clock a.m. in the morning and something happened in a whiskey store that set off an alarm and the police found him walking down the street at 2:00 in the morning, black guy, all by himself. And they made the mistake of telling him, they says, son, if you ain't guilty, you might as well be.” And the officer made a mistake. Somebody _________ in jail. I got him off. Those are two things (ha, ha),. If you ain't guilty, you might as well be. Everybody else round here but _________ going on. (ha, ha) Voice: Great detective work. Rolleston: Yeah, great detective work. Can't find anybody else to charge you with. He probably was guilty. I didn't, I didn't, know. You never know. Those were the only two criminal cases I have had in my life. And both of them, the court assigned them to me. __________: _______: _________ in real estate law? __________: I done a lot of things in real estate, I guess. __________: You might as well go over one of them. How long you been round here? __________: ______________. __________: I been around the law along with Jabez. Since 1960 I believe except for three years I been _____________. __________: Well what real estate adventures ___________ you know about _______________ that I won't tell? __________: That right _______________. __________: Well. __________: Bunch of them still …. __________: That was the first motel/hotel downtown. __________: It's the first motel or hotel in Atlanta in thirty years. __________: Is that right? __________: There hadn't been anything built in this town except for ______ Piedmont, the Eclipse Hotel _______ and ________ Grady. That one thing yes. We just looked _________________________. __________: Alright. They tore down and built a new hotel. _______________. Right by the Regency. __________: I sold the whole block to the Hilton people Hilton. Or Hilton is just running it. But now a guy name Trammell Crowe owns one of the biggest real estate _________. A fellow from Atlanta named U______ Hope played football at Georgia Tech. Ah and some people from Cu________ bringing everybody over here and they ended up buying it from him and they built the Hilton and rented to the Hilton people. They actually own the ___________________________. ___________ and things like that. __________: They have a beautiful Hilton in Manilla. I was stationed there for three years. __________: Oh really? __________: Yeah. __________: Ha, ha, ha. You stay at the Hilton? __________: No but the new Radisson. __________: Okay, ha, ha, ha. He was nice to you wasn't he? Ha, ha, ha. __________: _____________ unusual experience for a Hilton Hotel manager. When he opened it up, Conrad Hilton, so he came out _______________. ____________________. So, at the helm of the first thirty days of operation the ____________ so my friend sent this to New York like he was suppose to do and he thought he would get a glass of ____________________. So every time he __________ oranges. _________________________. (ha, ha, ha). __________: Well Byron Hill from the Southern ah came down and inspected _________________ _________________________ hotel with four soldiers. Remember? Crowe and Pope made the deal with him ___________________. __________: He's still around _________________. __________: Oh, I'm sure he is. He's younger than I am. The old man's gone I'm sure.. __________: _________________. __________: ___________ And you opposed the flip _______ in 16. Very young, small fellow but he played guard and they claim he was the best small guard in the whole country. __________: I heard that. __________: Ha, ha. __________: Was it Crowe Pope and Land? __________: Crowe Pope and Land. __________: That old Crowe ___________________. __________: A.J. Land. And A.J is still in the real estate business in Atlanta, nice guy. __________: All of them are nice. __________: ________ Pope used to live next door to me. Long time. __________: He died several years ago. __________: Yeah, he died ___________ truthful he _______ built the Hilton. __________: So when is the successful real estate ___________________. __________: Frank Carter, Tom Cousin … __________: Frank Carter's dead. __________: Yeah. __________: Tom Cousin's practically retired. I think … __________: __________ football player __________. __________: Ken King's a quarterback at Tech and one other quarterback went to North Fulton and he went to work for Trust Company and ah oh gosh, there's still a bunch of 3 or 4 other fellows who are prominent football ______ in the real estate business. __________: ________ everybody _______________. __________: Ha, ha, ha. __________: Well, I think if there was so _________ many people _______________________. __________: And it wasn't even big if you take just the city limits – you talking about _____________ plans. I want to get the city limits of Hamilton over 500,000. So that ____________________________. __________: _________________ __________: 4 million really. __________: ________ you talking about 4 million, you talking about what, 14 counties? __________: Talking about everywhere you can go north, east, south and west. Its all just a line. They have the same stores. The same eating places. Same ____________. __________: By the book. ________________________, ha, ha, ha. __________: Now if you go out all of US 23, the old __________ road to Gainesville, you don't know if you are in China or South America. __________: Or South Korea. __________: Or South Korea. Have you been up to the lake? __________: Its loaded. __________: They really have _____________ centered around people of their kind. Speak the same language. Its amazing the immigration in North Georgia. Up around Cartersville _______________. People wouldn't believe what's going on up there.. __________: I understand that they have these Hispanic immigrants – they were about to operate the car industry. __________: Well I tell you what, they do real good work, as brick masons, and a lot of other things. I've seen some real good work, stone work. They can, they do work too. They work 6 days a week or 7 if you want them. __________: Yeah, ____________ want to _______________. __________: Yeah, ha, ha, ha. ____________________. __________: Yeah, my fault. They want to make as much money so they can while they are here before they have to go back where ever they came from. Woman's voice: Well, I've got a question … __________: Alright. Woman's voice: before we run out of time. I wondered if both of you might like to speak a little bit as if you are speaking what your words would be to future generation, present generation. Anything you want to say. __________: Well I got a _________ concern about the younger generation. I had the great pleasure to be with my World War II Commander ______________ General Commander Fred Miller retired near San Antonio and he …. Woman's voice: _______________ __________: …Ah, I was stationed in the Philippines before I retired and seem like the _________ to live _____________- basically to go to Boston, Massachusetts. I told my wife to tell them to come see us then __________________ so we moved onto Atlanta. __________: Ha, ha, ha. __________: ______________________. __________: ___________ he say you're getting ______________. __________: But ah the question is, what do you think the current generation compared to _________________ the greatest generation? I brought this question to my former commander, General Miller. He said sailor, these kids now a days went with the Air Form Academy, some of the sharpest bunch I've ever seen. He said if World War II happened now they wouldn't have a __________ leader. I said why would you say that? He says, I was a regular officer and when that draft started you never such a bunch of grumbling (ha, ha, ha) ________________. But he said we managed to make them into _____ soldiers. So I told him, when I go to the Air Force Academy, __________ Fort Mac wrestling ____________, first class motel __________ and it could be expanded very quickly. I think it will be back ________________ so that's my personal opinion. I'll think of something. __________: If it is my turn to talk on that subject I just say this much: The draft never hurt anybody and it made a man out of a lot of people who wouldn't have grown up that fast and I don't know why everybody shouldn't spend some time supporting the country and making themselves available to defend this country if you have to. So I think the military service is fine. I got in because there was a war coming. I knew it was. But ah it certainly doesn't hurt anybody, it helps a lot of them and I think it will be great ________ go back to more defensive. Well, serve a year. Serve, year wondering about it. _______ made a man out of us. When you go in you are just a bunch of boys. So I think things have been a good service. __________: __________________ boys __________-. __________: Boy it brought you out real quick. __________: Yes it does. __________: If you were raised in Willow Quochi, Georgia and you go to the service you find out about the world real quick. __________: I know a bunch of fellows from Wisconsin they kept singing a song I never heard of before. One day I asked them what is that song you guys are singing? He says ____________________ Georgia (ha, ha, ha). __________: Ha, ha, ha. Well I bet you don't even know where Willow Quochi, Georgia is? Ha, ha, ha. Its way down in the south Georgia and there ain't much more than some plants _______________. __________: Amen. __________: I'm not even sure if its got a filling station. Probably has … Woman's voice: I have a question. Was your family in Willow Quochi while you were off in the service? __________: In Willow Quochi? No, nobody was in Willow Quochi. (ha, ha, ha) I just used that as an example. Woman's voice: I see. Where was your family while you were in the service? __________: When I was in the service? Woman's voice: Uh um. And how was your communications. Did they have a ___________. __________: Well my wife was here in Atlanta and lived with her mother and father while I was gone. While I was in Charleston Navy _______ she came over and lived with me and when I came back from assigned duty in New York I lived in Scarsdale, New York for the year, commuted by train to lower Manhattan, 95 Church Street which is the First Navel District Headquarters. Ah and when I got back I just like everybody else I was trying my best to find a place to live. We lived together, lived with my daddy for about two months after I got back from service until I could find a house I could afford to buy. I couldn't afford it anyway but I did. I tell you what I did do though. I ______ per diem in London I saved every dollar of that per diem and sent it home. $7.00 a day for six months. That was all the money I had when the war was over. Ha, ha, ha. Just about. Now the military service is good for people and good for this country too. __________: We all owe something to this country. __________: Yeah. __________: __________ __________: There's too many folks in this country don't, don't even believe that. __________: That's right. __________: Of course that's an old fellow's point of view I know. __________: That's true. ____________ that bind. (ha, ha, ha) __________: We don't need for military purposes at this point but you never know when you might. __________: Have you got a list just to get started with? Woman's voice: Why? __________: Ha, ha. ________ a bunch of junk. Ha, ha, ha. You ordered comments so I thought I would say just everything that came to mind.… __________: You got some ______________ questions ____________? (END OF ROLLESTON TAPE 1 – SIDE I - B) (BEGINNING OF ROLLESTON TAPE 2 - SIDE II - A) __________: ______________ so? __________: Yep, they just came to mind. __________: Because ___________________? __________: These maps that I brought you for the invasion – ah, I'm not interested in them going to something other place. You all have a wall to wall display? And they got plenty of them in Washington. I want to give these to the Atlanta History Center with the request that they stay here in this Center and make them display them because the y not only are unusual, they ________ you can find. I bet you can't any of them . Woman's voice: Absolutely unique. __________: They are all unique. Woman's voice: The … __________: And they are official. They've got every stamp on you can think of. Ah, I've had them ever since the Invasion and a, kept them and ______________________ if anybody wants to see them. Most people are interested in ______________ really enjoy seeing all of the stuff that was put on _____________. Woman's voice: Oh, we would be honored to have them. __________: So…. Woman's voice: Thank you. __________: So keep them. Woman's voice: Thank you. __________: Don't sell them to anybody else. Woman's voice: Don't __________: __________: Ha, ha, ha. Woman's voice: Thank you so much. __________: And all this conversation you have on the tape that I've been ditching out the last hour so you could get here. Woman's voice: No. This is wonderful. We really appreciate your taking the time. __________: I have enjoyed it. Woman's voice: … of sharing all this. __________: I have enjoyed it. Enjoyed meeting you. .. Woman's voice: Well … __________: Enjoyed meeting the old fellows from the Air Corp. Woman's voice: Yes. __________: ___________ Air Force, ha, ha, ha. Woman's voice: This is great. __________: Excuse me, I was referring to Air Forest. Ha, ha, ha. __________: Air Forest. __________: Ha, ha, ha, ha. __________: I just thought of one of my best friends, he was a captain in the St. _______ division, and during the invasion of Sicily the air/ground coordination didn't work out and they got straight ____ P38s so they had anti-craft guns ___________ so they shot him down. __________: Oh really? Ha, ha, ha. __________: That's all a mistake wasn't it? __________: ______________ thought they were covering the area. __________: You say a _____________________________. __________: Ha, ha, ha, ha. __________: While he got shot down? __________: _________________________. Moral of the story and ________ story ______ invasion and he __________ particular incident. __________: I bet he _______________. __________: Well you know there is a lot of people in the invasion. I knew 2 or 3 who went on ______ and landed into all kinds of trouble. Both of them got shot up. They survived but the ______ was suppose to land someplace, it got all mixed up __________ They weren't on that. We just stayed on the coast. __________: ________ C-47s. ________They started getting shot at. The first time I got pretty nervous __________ ___________ went out on D-Day I got ________ 2,000 lb planes flew ________. Every airplane we had – it would fly. I think 2,000 of them. The main object was to bomb all the British and France if possible between Normandy and Hitler. Hitler lost his own war, at least he proved ___________ Ronald was with him. Ronald had all his tanks up there _____ they originally thought maybe we were going to come over to Calley which _________ in the U.S. Channel. We head 100,000 troops, at least 100,000, over there in full display so that the Germans could see us and all the airplanes flying be could see what a 100,000 people look like ________ right there. Hitler sat across 10 miles, 15 miles just over the other side of the channel. Ronald _________ all the beaches ________ and Hitler held him back for two days. ________ if _________ we may not have – well we would have probably eventually, but it would have been one hell of a fight. It was bad enough _________ Have you been to __________ by chance? Have you been to ________ beach? _________ You've been there too, well, you've seen the high elevation of the sand and everything above it. Did you go to the _________? __________: _____________ __________: The most impressive thing _________. Anyway, every ________ military _________. This is suppose to be true story. Napoleon got up that morning when they were about to have it out and had a bad headache, a migraine. So the story goes, and he didn't get to the front till about mid-day and he should have been out there from the very beginning and he practically lost _______. We make mistakes too in this country. ______________ __________: _________ just in time. (laughing) __________: ___________________ what they called second ________ I think it was 3 days after D-Day. He wanted to show how _________ in less than 2 days. He was finally wounded. So 39 years later _________ old soldier reunion. So I took him _______ and my air ____ buddies called him “old hell on wheels.” ___________ He was very popular. At any rate, we went to the beaches and we had a local French car and he was driving. I was sitting there __________ and once that car stopped I almost went through the windshield. He said “that's it” He said “what is it?” He said “that's where I was standing when I was wounded _________. I said “39 years ago.” He said “yep, that's it.!” You know very well he would remember. I don't know what I said when we were going over this thing but there was a fellow from Pennsylvania named Chuck Coleman. There was a guy from Baton Rouge, LA. _________ He was an architect. There was another architect from California and I cannot remember his name yet. I did this the other night. There was fellow from Kentucky name Don Stillman and a fellow from Boston who's a lawyer that's deceased now and a fellow from _________ named Bill __________ who was a curator of the museum in Detroit, MI. Then we had Capt. ________, I don't know where he's from, that was strictly a French name but he was American, our commanding officer. We had a lieutenant commander who was mostly from Boston. That was our own staff. We ________. And all of them except the captain and lieutenant commander, everybody in that place was less than 30. Woman's voice: Absolutely amazing. __________: I was probably 23 or 24. I wrote their names down ____________ __________: How long did you work? _________ 14 hour days just ___________ __________: I worked whatever was necessary but we were getting out the revisions of this thing every week. I was briefed on Normandy on February 1st. __________ __________: You knew when they were going to land? __________: Oh yeah. It scared me to death because I was afraid I'd open my mouth. Consequently, we all went out at lunch together or at night. If we went anywhere, we all tried to stay together, because it was just office talk to us and we were just scared we would start talking about something we shouldn't be talking about. Every time some people can over there for dinner ___________ __________: __________ couple days there were two instances where D-Day invasion day were breached. The first was by a major general who was assigned a squad ______ and he had drink with somebody at a cocktail party and ___________ __________: We'd send him back to the states, I'll bet you or shot him. __________: I heard about _______ __________: I never heard about the colonel. I knew about him being sent back. He talked to much. __________: I never heard about the lieutenant. __________: That was ______ I knew a colonel was sent back to the states because he talked to his __________. __________: _____________ __________: Well he didn't get shot. He just had a broken arm. That's bad enough. __________: The reason that Hitler kept the armor forces back from the beach _______ program called “Fortitude.” __________: That's what I was talking about – right across from Callay. __________: Right across the channel. Hitler was convinced that main admiral was going to be __________ Callay. __________: That's exactly right. He did. _________ And we not only didn't try to hide we made it as obvious as possible they would see it. __________: _________ or whatever they called it and they had all these signals going back and forth on the radio. ________ big airplane and _____ tank. __________: That's right. And then wide open and he slept with that. I rode through the countryside 2 or 3 times and you could hardly tell there's anybody there. Everything was camouflaged. But it was done on purpose. __________: And the Germans _________ __________: _____________ it was well known that _________ and it should have been. __________: Do you remember the OSS ___________________. There's a fellow from Raleigh or Durham, I'm not sure. ________ The had double agents. The knew they were _________. He would fly __________ so he could see these fake flags. __________: (laughing) A double agent. __________: ________ He was a bull joined to the tank. He turned it on. He said “I hope they didn't see it. __________. The British broke the German code. That's right. __________: The Germans didn't know it either. ________ There's a real good book called “The Eye of the Needle.” If you haven't read it, you ought to read it. It's about the code and a German spy and his experiences in England. _________. I forgot who wrote it but he's written a lot of good books. The Eye of the Needle. __________: ______________ __________: There was a movie about they were trying to kill Churchill and somebody was standing in his place and looked like him. I saw the movie. And they killed the fellow. They thought they killed Churchill. __________: Thought they killed Churchill. __________: Yeah, He was a remarkable man. __________: You bet your life. __________: As a man who just completely discarded as a public figure before he became __________. His politics before he became the head __________ __________: He probably saved the free world. __________: He and Roosevelt. __________: ___________ ourselves. __________: Because Roosevelt put us in war before we even declared war. _______ The land lease was our part of the war before we declared war. __________: The Navy was in the North Atlantic six months before ___________ __________: I'm convinced Roosevelt had some inkling about the Japanese invasion, Peal Harbor. __________: __________ __________: I'm convinced. __________: As a matter of fact he could have ___________ he took ________ position _______ __________: If I remember correctly the Japanese ambassador was somebody in Washington _______ when they bombed Pearl Harbor and had been talking to our government just a day or two before ________ __________: ____________ __________: I just think Roosevelt knew about and thought that was the best way to get us in the war. We had to get in. England couldn't have done it by itself. __________: And we couldn't have done it without England. __________: ___________ we could have lost that war ____________ __________: It would have been rough __________ __________: And then the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor. Everybody came together. __________: That's right. Well, I'm going to say goodbye to you for the moment. Women's voice: Thank you sir very, very much. __________: I don't know if you gained anything, but you got a lot of conversation. __________: ____________ there's a part of this interview we were talking about 2000+ airplanes ________ you don't have to be a trustee ___________________ He did a marvelous job. On D-Day he was a colonel and I think ____________ at any rate, he was in the first B-17 to cross the beaches ___________ that day. __________: I wonder how you got these guy _________ how he got permission to get on that airplane. That was a hard deal. __________: I think that was only the second person that tried that _________ because their was 6 cars ______ who continued to request permission to go on a mission _____________ north had already blow up Berlin _______________________ some of them got permission to go and five of them got in B-17s ___________________ all night post. _________. And of the six only five got back. _____________ folks got killed who flew the B-44. ___________. __________: What did you fly? __________: __________ B-24s __________: ___________ Good for you. __________: _______ Several years ago I was on this trip with my family at the time. We got on a ferry __________ it went cross to the French port. I got to figuring this is about the 82nd time I've been come across the English Channel. The first time I've been on a ship. (laughing) __________: You do fly alone. How many missions did you fly? __________: 35. Harry Truman decided to fire Douglass McArthur and he hired __________________ __________: Did you ever get tired of him ______________ You shot at the best. __________ that's good. Proud of you. See you were really in the war. I was on the edges of it. I had something to do with it but __________ __________: The fellows in the front line get a lot of credit, air crew who fly those missions ___________. For every man that flies is probably 20 or 30 backing him up. in the states ___________ __________: They would have had a hard time getting over there if they hadn't had those ___________. __________: One of the most interesting things was – I didn't know him personally but his name was Jimmy Stewart. ___________. I think Jimmy flew 21 or 22 missions and would have flown more but the __________ general told him look Jim, we don't know what would happen to you if you got shot down so I'm just going to make you my exec. He them eventually promoted him to full colonel – thoroughly deserved. Stuart was a marvelous man and one of the reasons was that he had this __________ referee kind, slow _________ talk so we all understand – flank right, turn left, drop the bombs and get out. ___________ Woman's voice: I think I've just about run out of tape. Thank you. __________: I was visiting the museum in Washington, D.C. where they got all those airplanes and the spirit said “_____ I think this is ______” ___________ my wife had another friend __________ this great big tall guy walked up to him and started talking to him and all of a sudden they realize he was Jimmy Stewart. They liked to have a fit! I guess ______________ __________: ___________ he use to come to our reunions with his wife, Gloria – she was __________ __________: I'll tell you Stewart is just about _______. We were in the Dorchester Hotel in London one time, May and I and another couple we went to have afternoon tea at 4:00 and May, my wife, said “be quiet, be quiet.” I said “what in the world is going on.” She says “I'm listening to a guy” What's the fellow that played in Camelot? I said Burton, yes, she says he over at that little table and I just want to listen to him. __________: My pleasure.
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Additional Rights Information:: This material is protected by copyright law. (Title 17, U.S. Code) Permission for use must be cleared through the Kenan Research Center at the Atlanta History Center. Licensing agreement may be required.
Extent:: 1:24:28
Original Collection:: Veterans History Project oral history recordings
Veterans History Project collection, MSS 1010, Kenan Research Center, Atlanta History Center
Holding Institution:: Atlanta History Center
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