Oral history interview of James John Nally, Jr.

Collection:: Veterans History Project: Oral History Interviews
Title:: Oral history interview of James John Nally, Jr.
Creator:: Gardner, Robert D.
Nally, James John, Jr., 1917-
Date of Original:: 2004-05-27
Subject:: World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Ardennes, Battle of the, 1944-1945
World War, 1939-1945--Campaigns--France--Normandy
Patton, George S. (George Smith), 1885-1945
Rockefeller, Harry
Eisenhower, Dwight D. (Dwight David), 1890-1969
Napoli, Ralph
Barstow, Robert H., 1919-2007
United States. Army. Armored Division, 4th
United States. Army. Armored Infantry Battalion, 51st
Location:: France, Île-de-France, Paris, 48.85341, 2.3488
United States, Arizona, Desert Training Center and California-Arizona Maneuver Area
United States, California, Desert Training Center and California-Arizona Maneuver Area
United States, Georgia, 32.75042, -83.50018
United States, Georgia, Atlanta Metropolitan Area, 33.8498, 84.4383
Medium:: video recordings (physical artifacts)
hi-8
Type:: Moving Image
Format:: video/quicktime
Description:: In this interview, James Nally recalls his time in the U.S. Army during World War II. He describes his entry into the service and his training. He describes the equipment used by his unit and the effects that sand had on them. He recalls a Colonel who was killed when his jeep backed over a mine. He displays his medals. He describes correspondence, food, and entertainment in the Army. He describes his first memories of the D-Day invasion as waking up to the drone of aircraft and the skies blackened with aircraft. His unit landed in Normandy the day after. He describes Christmas of 1944 as lousy because of the cold. He discusses bridges across the Rhine and his duties in the occupation forces. He relates the military service of two of his brothers.
James Nally was in the U.S. Army in Europe during World War II.
Mr. James John Nally, Jr., 300 Johnson Ferry Road, Atlanta, GA, born January 6, 1917; Interviewed by Robert Gardner; in attendance is his daughter, Patty Green May 27, 2004 Gardner: Mr. Nally, can you tell me war and branch of service you served in? Nally: I guess that was WWII. Gardner: What was your rank, sir? Nally: I was a captain. Gardner: Were you drafted or did you enlist? Nally: I was a drafted as just a soldier. I went to armored force school and became an officer. Gardner: Where were you living at the time? Nally: I was living in Boston, Massachusetts. Gardner: Do you recall you first days of service? Nally: Yes. Gardner: Can you describe some of things that went on for me, sir? Nally: I didn't like it a bit. I wasn't overjoyed. It was an old camp on Long Island, New York. I can't recall the name of it now. But it had a history of WWI. Gardner: Can you tell me about some of your boot camp or training experiences? Nally: Yeah. I had some tough first sergeants. “If you don't like it—we'll let you do it again—until you get it right!” I sometimes argued with the sergeants because I didn't think that we should have to do it twice if we did it the first time right. It wasn't any sense doing it the second time. I didn't like being an enlisted man because I was capable of doing better than that. I just thought the best place for me to go was to go to an officer's training school and get a commission—and that's what I did. When I was commissioned I was commissioned as a second lieutenant. I was assigned to the 4th Armored Division in Pine Camp, NY. Gardner: What was that experience like, sir? Nally: That was very good. I was very lucky. I got assigned to a great organization. Great leadership, great officers, knowledgeable people. They knew what they were doing. They passed it on to us who didn't know a damn thing about military service. I just grew with it, that's all. I was brand new. All the soldiers were new. Some of them, of course, were our leaders who were guys who had made it their life career to be a sergeant. They thought that was the greatest place in town. To belong to an army outfit that was a good one. You listened to them. They knew what they were doing. They were smart and funny. It grew on you. You felt they knew what they were doing. They were trying to teach you how to do it, and you better pay attention or you're gonna get your head blown off. So, you did! You went in as a private. Then you'd say, “I think I'd rather be an officer.” So you went to officer training school and got a commission. You came back as a second lieutenant and first lieutenant and you were promoted and you did your regular training services and camps and desert training centers and that sort of thing. Mid-west maneuvers, desert training center, armored forces school. Good officers in command. People who had given the best of their lifetime to be officers and were very good. Gardner: As an officer, what type of assignments did they give you during these training missions? Nally: They were just good, and they rubbed off on you. They told you what to do and you did it. We had good officers. They were well trained. Gardner: Were you actually in command of other troops at the time since you were in an armored division? Nally: Oh, yes. As a company commander you were bumped around from one change to another. Armored force was a lot different than one-two-three-four training of a foot soldier because we were mounted with excellent equipment. I guess we thought we were helping—using armored equipment in the desert, finding fault with the way it was made, breaking axles, breaking springs, riding tanks, riding half-tracks and motorcycles that didn't work in the desert because the sand would grind into the shaft and drove the motorcycle off the road. It was a good occasion. We had a chance to test the motorcycles and ride them up from the desert—the Mojave Desert—up to Las Vegas and chances to stay overnight in Las Vegas and gamble at the table and lose $20 or whatever it was we got paid, I forgot now. I met a lot of friends, good people. Young fellows, soldiers, other fellows who went to the school and were commissioned as officers. They did their best, their very best. Taught us all they knew. Military people came out of West Point. Great commanding officers we had. Good leadership. All of them never finished—none of them finished really—that we first started with. By the time the war was over they were gone. Nally: We landed right after, we were the first to land after the break-through to the coast of France. From England across the water and landed on the beaches of North France and took over the positions of those who first made the attack on Europe. Of course, I wasn't expecting it and I kind of placed it way back in my mind and I can't draw it up right now. If I was a drinking man I'd probably remember it. Gardner: What was your job or assignment at the time? Nally: I was a company commander when we landed in Normandy. It was a great group of officers that I worked with. A great group of commissioned officers, non-commissioned officers and a great bunch of soldiers. It made it easy for me. They waited for the break-through at North France which really began right after the American soldiers landed. The time our friend, General George Patton, was having a hard time in Africa, had made a few mistakes, but was one of the finest leaders I think this country will ever see. We had some good West Point graduates who were commanding. The colonel who was commanding the 4th Armored Division and gained promotions because they earned them. They just weren't handed out. They were good, they knew their business and they passed it on to us “dummies” who tried to pick it up. Gardner: Did you see combat? Nally: Yeah, every day! Everyday after we landed. I was not part of the original landing force in North France. We came the day after. Six days later and landed and took over the positions of the invasion troops and waited for reinforcements and finally into the hedges of France. We were not foot soldiers because we were armored force. We rode half-tracks, big 6- 2-ton trucks, 10-ton trucks—funny how you forget all that stuff. That part of the war you didn't worry about, you didn't wonder about it, you didn't want to learn about it, anyway. Gardner: Was there many casualties in your unit? Nally: Yeah, we lost a lot of boys. Gardner: Tell me about a couple of your most memorable experiences, please. Nally: The first attack we made we lost a colonel. His driver backed up over a mine and it twisted that jeep, the back wheels just went upside down and killed him. He was a West Point graduate and a fine military officer. Not the real kind of a buddy I'd like to have, but a hell of a fine officer. You had others who graduated from the Academy who were fine leaders. Taught us every they could and we were not soldiers. We were just dummies. We were civilians who didn't know anything about the military service, and it was their livelihood, the military service—and you had to keep up with them or you were left behind. They gave us all they had, and it paid off too! We didn't think so at the time, I guess, but it did. Gardner: Are there any experiences that you'd like to relate to us? Nally: As armored force we didn't know what a foxhole was, but we relieved the Infantry Division in Northern France in the hedges and eventually, when they brought Patton up from Africa to give him a new command, he was the leader. We had other West Point graduates who were commanding the division and commanding many of the companies. We had great leadership. No bosses, just good leaders. They'd give you hell every once in awhile but it had an effect. Gardner: What was it like with the terrain? You mentioned being in the hedgerows with the enemy and your forces on either side. Nally: It was unusual for us because we were very maneuverable troops. We first thought we were great because we got to sit on the back-end of the truck, that's because we didn't have any tanks. Then all of the sudden we got half-tracks, two wheels up front and tracks on the back. We joined the 4th Armored Division which had a bunch of tanks. We became part of the 4th Armored Division which was one of the leaders in the war. The guy who led us was George Patton. You can say what you want—he was a tough leader but he was a good one. You did it his way or you didn't do it! Unfortunately, he made a few mistakes. He knew what he was doing when he was leading the forces. Gardner: Were you assigned to a tank or did you assign yourself to a tank? Nally: No, I was very fortunate. I was 51st Armored Infantry, an infantry of foot soldiers, really, but we had half-tracks. The armored division—we were a part of the armored division since half-track was armored, but it was not a tank. It had a track on the back and two wheels up front, which we had a hard time with in the desert training center before we went to war. We kept breaking the springs. They were able to correct that before we used them in the war. We trained in the desert, the Mohave Desert. Used a lot of materials. We tested motorcycles. Motorcycles were no good in the desert. It threw up the dirt and sand and they did a sprocket and just blew out the chain drive. They went through a shaft drive and tried them all and finally motorcycles were not for the armored forces. They dumped them. They didn't go to war. Maybe a military police may have used them but I don't know where they were. They were behind us, someplace. Gardner: Were you awarded any medals or citations? Nally: Yeah. Now that you asked me, I'll have to look it up in the book. Oh, I got the Bronze Star and the Silver Star. I got what they called a “German Marksman's Medal.” It was a Purple Heart. Gardner: Could you hold that up, please. Nally: This one here was a German Marksman's Metal. Those were the only medals I really have. You get a lot of things to wear over your shirt pocket. Every time your outfit did something, you got another one. Gardner: What was the reason that you were awarded the Bronze Star and the Silver Star, sir? Could you go into a little detail? Nally: For gallantry in action. I really wasn't that gallant. I guess—you better do it now or they were going to get you first. It wasn't something you looked forward to—I'll tell you that! It's you or me buddy, and I'd rather it be you. Gardner: I understand completely. How did you stay in touch with your family? Nally: Postal service. We were taken good care of. You'd get your mail out and you got mail too. Gardner: What was the food like? Nally: Pretty good. They managed it pretty well. We ate pretty well, to tell you the truth. Sometimes out of a box and sometimes out of a bag. It was good food. Gardner: Did you have plenty of supplies? Nally: Plenty of supplies. I commanded a service company which brought the guns, brought the ammunition, brought the gasoline. An armored force moved quickly. As soon as they ran out of gasoline they stopped, so you couldn't allow that to happen. They never went dry. We hauled gasoline all day—all night, and we dumped it right into tanks and right into half-tracks—and they burned it up. Gardner: Was this while the tanks and half-tracks were in a service area or was this up towards the front? Nally: Oh, this was right on the front line. This was right there. Right in the hedges in Northern France. Gardner: So the drivers and the people there were in as much, or if not more, danger than the troops that were in the tanks and half-tracks? Nally: You might say so, yes. Gardner: Did you feel pressure or stress? Nally: You shake that off pretty quickly. You get him first, and don't give him up. It was a—you learned how to do that very quickly. It's you or me, buddy, and I don't want it to be me. You learned how to do that very quick or you were taught very well, and you taught your troops to do it that way too, and they did. Gardner: Was there anything special you did for good luck? Nally: No, I don't think so. Just watch your ass, excuse me. Gardner: How did people entertain themselves? Nally: When you were in battle you didn't have any entertainment at all. You were pretty busy. We didn't use foxholes in the armored forces, you didn't have any foxholes. The foxhole is what you lived in, half-track or a tank, a command car that had no protection at all. Half-tracks and tanks were the greatest thing in the world. They had a range and get there first with the most. Gardner: Were there any entertainers, USO entertainers or anything? Nally: No. There was—but not after D-Day. We didn't see any entertainer until after Bastone, that was Christmastime. The entertainers were entertaining the troops but not on the battle line, and if they were they were not on our lines. We could have enjoyed them if they were there. Gardner: What did you do when on leave? Nally: Most of us were single, and consequently, we picked up a girl and buy her a drink if we could, if we had any money—and enjoyed their company. We didn't get too much leave. If you had a couple of days in London or a couple of days—well, we never did get to Paris. After the war started—the war didn't start until we got on the mainland of Europe. You did what you had to do and get there first with the most and save your ass, excuse me. Gardner: Where did you travel while in the service? Nally: Where did they battle? Gardner: Where did you travel while in the service, sir? Nally: I started in Pine Camp, New York and went down to Tennessee and went west to Texas, then west to California, the Mohave Desert. I landed in Europe. We landed in England, I should say, on the west coast of England and moved toward the east coast of England and on D-Day we woke up, we were awakened by the drone of aircraft. My great buddy of mine, who's still a good buddy of mine, and I slept on a British estate and heard this drone of aircraft in the morning and said “What the hell is that?” We got out of our beds, such as they were. I looked out the window and the sky was blackened with aircraft as far as you could see to the east and as far back as you could see to the west. That was D-Day and that's how we found out about it. After D-Day we quickly moved to a new location to the south in England and prepared ourselves to move to invade France and take over the positions of the people who got there first. After the buildup then the actual war started. And that's when Patton was relieved of all his punishment, I think, and took over that portion of the armored forces that moved into Northern France and started across the Brittany Peninsula. We did the submarine bases and the German forces where we were fortunate enough to find their storage location for all the booze that was fit to drink. We always had time to get one more case. I had great attendance for the ministers and the priests of the Catholic church because I was always able to provide them with the necessary amount of alcohol on Sunday and they would say, “Nally, would you mind putting a few in my jeep?” Now he called them a jeep—we called them a peephole at the time, a little 4-wheel job. It was good. They took good care of us. Gardner: Do you recall any particularly humorous or unusual events? Nally: Yeah, but I can't recall them. But when you got them—boy, they really were good. Gardner: Were there any pranks that you or others would pull on each other? Nally: Yeah, but I don't recall them right now. But we needed them and they were good. You took them and you gave them, I guess. Gardner: Do you have any photographs to share with us, sir? Nally: Boy, I have a bunch, but I don't know where they are. Gardner: What did you think of your fellow officers and fellow soldiers? Nally: They were the best in the world. Gardner: Did you happened to keep a personal diary? Nally: No. Gardner: Do you recall the day your service ended? Nally: My service ended in New Jersey. I had come back to the U.S. from England and they asked me if I wanted to go to the west coast and join the active force for Pacific. I had no interest in doing that. If I had to I would have to go, if you said “go” I'd go, but I didn't volunteer to go to the west coast. I really wasn't happy in the military service. It's not my cup of tea. I met some great people and had some great times and enjoyed many, many times but being a soldier was not the best thing in the world as far as I was concerned. There were better things to do. When war ended I was glad to do them. Gardner: What did you do in the days and weeks after you were discharged from the service? Nally: What did I do when I was discharged from the service? I worked for a fine corporation and when I left was told to return to my previous job and I did. I worked in Boston, Massachusetts. When I left the service I went back to Boston when I returned. From then on it was just one good move after another. I fortunately didn't get married before I went to war. I got married quickly after I returned from the war. I raised three of the finest girls in the world, including her. Gardner: Did you happen to go back to school and was it supported by the GI bill? Nally: I went back to school and had an opportunity to be supported by the GI bill but I had a fine job and it took my attention. I made fine progress with my employer. I liked what I was doing. I did not graduate from college. I do not have a college degree. I have an education but not a degree. Gardner: Did you make any close friendships while you were in the service? Nally: Oh, yes. Gardner: Did you continue any of those relationships and would you like to share some of those with us, please? Nally: I didn't go to school but some of the guys I was in the service with went back to school and they became teachers, like my friend, Barstow. He would be the next president of the 4th Armored Division. That stuff is here some place. Rockefeller, he commanded Company B. Harry Rockefeller, I knew him as “Harry.” Now, he's General Rockefeller. He just retired from the military so this is only about few months ago. The finest soldier you ever saw in your life. He knew it all. These other guys the same way—yeah, there's a fellow—military police but he joined the 4th Armored as an officer, he was good. You don't forget those guys. Gardner: Did you join a veteran's organization? Nally: No, not that one, but that's not an organization. I will be the next president of this outfit. He just retired as a major general a couple years ago. Been in Washington a long time. Great officer, very talented, smart guy. Gardner: What's the name of the organization that you'll be the president of, sir? Nally: 4th Armored Division Association. You can have these if you want to use them for references. Gardner: What did you go on to do as a career after the war? Nally: I was very lucky. I went back to work for the company I had left to go to war. Came back and was welcomed with opened arms. I had great leadership, talented people who knew the business and passed it on. I'm grateful for that. They did a great job. I moved well. I was promoted, got a new job. Couple of years another job with the same company. Transferred several times, moved, not at the best wishes of my loving wife and family. However, they were better opportunities for me, promotions and increases. I enjoyed it. I enjoyed moving and I had great people working for me and they did a good job and it made me look good. Gardner: Has your military experience influenced your thinking about war or about the military in general? Nally: Yeah. The military was fine but I hate war. I'm against that. Gardner: Do you attend reunions, sir? Nally: Yes. I've missed a few of these. We have one of these every year. All over the country. I hope I will be the president of the 4th Armored Division Association but I just hope I'm alive and well and can go the convention this year, at which time I will assume the presidency and do as good of a job, if not better, than those who had done before me. Gardner: How did your service and experiences affect your life? Nally: The active service, I was away from family. I had a brother who was in the service who graduated from the school in Charleston, South Carolina, and was commissioned to service in military school. (What was the name of that, do you remember?—Citadel) The Citadel. He graduated from the Citadel and was commissioned there. He was killed in the service. He was a pilot with the Air Force. My older brother was a sergeant and he was on his way to Japan when the war ended. Was able to come back and hitchhike rides with the Air Force with time enough to change his shoes and be the best man at my wedding. Before we went to the church to be married he went to his wife and gave her a big kiss and a hug, changed his shoes and stood at the altar when my wife and I were married. Gardner: Is there anything you'd like to add that we haven't covered in this interview, sir? Nally: I've done enough. I've done enough. You've got me, I guess I'm soft. There's nothing I can say. I've had a wonderful life—a wonderful life. A whole of bunch of people. Daughter: Daddy, who was the driver, was it Rocky or Ralph or Smokey or something? Nally: I can't think of it right now. He was the backdoor gunman for Ben Martin's Riviera in New Jersey in civilian life before the war. Ralph Napoly his name was. He was my driver. Daughter: Didn't you go to a china plant or something in Germany? What was that? Tell me that story again? Nally: We were in the occupation zone of Germany after the war was over. This plant didn't have any material to light the fires—the kilns to make china. What's the kind of china is it that we have? General Eisenhower and I were able to get the same batch of china made by this plant because he was able to maneuver some way to get coal so they had kilns. It was in my occupation zone. He said, “You pick out something too, son.” I did and that china was sent home without a crack. We still have it. Daughter: Was it Rosenthal? Nally: Rosenthal China. You couldn't afford to buy it. Eisenhower got his money but I didn't have any money. I hope he got his china in good shape, too. Mine is still good! That's a good part of war, I guess—if there was a good part. Daughter: That and the liquor part, right. All the wine and the booze that you can drink. Nally: We made arrangements for that alright. Daughter: Didn't you have to build a bridge, or something, to cross some river? Nally: Yes, we crossed the Rhine. Daughter: How did you build that bridge, do you remember? Nally: Built on pontoons and you crossed it—tanks went across, half-tracks went across, all the vehicles went across, troops went across—the bridges were blown out. Daughter: You mentioned, too, that you helped get gas to the equipment—did that help you when you came back to the states and went to work for Shell Oil Company, in the distribution of oil? I know you did when you were in Atlanta, I don't know if you did it in Boston. Nally: No, I don't think so. Not really. I was sure glad to see the end of it anyway. Christmas was lousy because that was Bastone. We took Bastone, it belonged to us. It was cold. We lost a lot of people from frostbite, that's how cold it was. Stuck there, but you made a lot of friends, too. We'll have our convention. It will be in Michigan. He's a college professor, smart as a whip, he always was. Daughter: Bob Barstow. Nally: Kalamazoo, Michigan. A fine person. Has a fine family, fine wife, daughter married a fine young man, has a nice young boy who's about—I've forgot his age now, but he was at our last convention, with grandpa. You never forget those guys. You don't see them but once a year and sometimes you miss a few years in between. Once you get together again—wow-wee—look out! They're getting a lot more quiet than they were back some 30-40 years ago. They were in New York, Las Vegas, and Kalamazoo, Michigan. If you want to read about it, there it is. Gardner: I want to thank you very much for doing this interview. It's been my pleasure to conduct it and I really, really appreciate you taking the time to do this and share your experiences with us and with everyone else. Thank you so much. Nally: A little “BS” for that stuff? Did I say something wrong? Daughter: No. What am I going to do with you? (Laughter)
Metadata URL:: http://album.atlantahistorycenter.com/cdm/ref/collection/VHPohr/id/271
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Extent:: 48:05
Original Collection:: Veterans History Project oral history recordings
Veterans History Project collection, MSS 1010, Kenan Research Center, Atlanta History Center
Holding Institution:: Atlanta History Center
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