Oral history interview of Richard D. "Dick" McFarland

Collection:: Veterans History Project: Oral History Interviews
Title:: Oral history interview of Richard D. "Dick" McFarland
Creator:: Vick, Archer
McFarland, Richard D., 1921-
Date of Original:: 2004-03-24
Subject:: World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
McFarland, Grace
McFarland, Robert
Lingenfelter, Floyd
McFarland, Maria
Luchaire, Jean, 1901-1946
Palmer, Johnny
United States. Army. Infantry Division, 88th
United States. Army. Infantry Regiment, 349th. Battalion, 3rd
University of Akron
United States. Army. Signal Corps
Keystone Radio School (Pittsburgh, Pa.)
United States. Army. Armored Division, 13th
United States. Army. Officer Candidate School
Empress of Scotland (Steamship)
Georgetown University
McFarland, Dick
Location:: Algeria, Oran, 35.69906, -0.63588
Italy, Apennines
Italy, Florence, 43.7698712, 11.2555757
Italy, Lazio, Rome, Rome, 41.89193, 12.51133
Italy, Merano, 46.6695547, 11.1594185
Italy, Minturno, 41.2629744, 13.7465219
Italy, Naples, 40.8359336, 14.2487826
Morocco, Casablanca, 33.5950627, -7.6187768
United States, California, Yuba County, Beale Air Force Base, 39.10917, -121.35444
United States, Georgia, 32.75042, -83.50018
United States, Georgia, Atlanta Metropolitan Area, 33.8498, 84.4383
United States, Georgia, Chattahoochee County, Fort Benning, 32.35237, -84.96882
United States, Kentucky, Hardin County, Fort Knox, 37.89113, -85.96363
United States, Louisiana, Vernon Parish, Camp Polk, 31.0520965, -93.2169155124726
United States, Missouri, Newton County, Camp Crowder, 36.80403, -94.35829
United States, Ohio, Franklin County, Columbus, Fort Hayes, 39.975473, -82.990006
United States, Ohio, Summit County, Akron, 41.08144, -81.51901
United States, Texas, Bexar County, San Antonio, Fort Sam Houston, 29.46235365, -98.4320524252692
United States, Texas, Smith County, Camp Fannin, 32.42367925, -95.2112318132556
United States, Virginia, City of Newport News, Newport News, 37.08339, -76.46965
Medium:: video recordings (physical artifacts)
mini-dv
Type:: Moving Image
Format:: video/quicktime
Description:: In this interview, Dick McFarland remembers his experiences in the U.S. Army during World War II. He recalls his family and early years and describes the effect the Great Depression had. He explains going to college on a cooperative system of work and school to be able to afford it. He describes hearing about the attack on Pearl Harbor, the circumstances of his entering the service, and his early days. He recalls the civilian response to soldiers wherever he went in the United States and the level of patriotism. He relates his voyage to Africa and his experiences as the Army moved up the Italian peninsula. At the end of the war, he helped repatriate German soldiers. On his return home, he became a staff officer at the 5th Army headquarters. He recalls his feelings at the end of the ward and the effects of combat. He details a wound he received in a training exercise. He discusses what fighting in Korea was like and his time in Japan.
Richard D. McFarland was in the U.S. Army during World War II.
RICHARD D. McFARLAND VETERANS HISTORY INTERVIEW ATLANTA HISTORY CENTER March 24, 2004 Interviewer: Archer Vick Transcriber: Stephanie McKinnell Archer Vick: My name is Archer Vick. And today is Wednesday, March 24, 2004, and we're here at the Atlanta History Center. Sir, would you tell me your name? Richard D. McFarland: The name is Richard D., the middle name is Delaus, McFarland. AV: And where were you born? RM: I was born in Akron, Ohio, in 1921. AV: And can you tell me your branch of service? RM: U.S. Army. AV: And your battalion. RM: During World War II, I was with the 3rd Battalion, the 349th Infantry Regiment, part of the 88th Division. AV: Where did you grow up mostly? I know that you were born in Akron? RM: I grew up in Akron, Ohio. I went through school there from grade one through grade 12. I graduated from high school in 1940, and my wife graduated from the same high in 1939, one year ahead of me. We had known one another since we were in the fourth grade together. We graduated then. I started at the University of Akron in what was called the cooperative system of education where you go to school one semester and you work one semester. This was in 1940, and things were pretty slim. The Depression had just stopped, if you will. But I started at the University of Akron, and in 1940, I would have been 19 years old. When World War II broke out at Pearl Harbor December 7, 1941, I was a student at that time and part-time worker as you know. The work that I did, if you recall, you probably are not familiar with Akron, it's a rubber city, Goodyear, Firestone, General Tire, Goodrich, all those companies were centered and did their manufacturing in Akron, Ohio. So if you went to school at Akron University, you could get a degree in chemical engineering, which related to synthetic products, you know. I didn't want that. So I went in as a liberal arts student initially in 1941, I guess, right after. No, it was 1940, that's right. And we _, I came from a family of three children, my older brother, my older sister, and myself and my dad and mom. I told Robert, who was my brother, I said I want to enlist. And he said, no, you will not enlist, because our father had already died when I was a sophomore in high school. And my mom was by herself except for the children. AV: What did he die of? RM: Heart attack, he died of a heart attack. AV: He was very young. RM: Oh yeah, he was about 52 years old. AV: So your mother keeping four children? RM: Three children, three children exactly. By that time, my brother and my sister had already graduated from high school, and Robert was attending the University of Akron. AV: _ your mom? RM: Well, it was pretty rough because if you recall, during the 1930's, that was the height of the depression. I mean it was pretty rough, even though you had an income. My mom didn't work; she was a housewife all her life. AV: Where did your income come from? RM: Well, it came from my dad most of the time until he passed away. And then because of the regulations, insurance and stuff, and by this time Robert was working. So we had a little bit of an income coming in. And I was working part time. My sister had already gotten married, and she had moved with her husband to another location. AV: So you had to grow up pretty fast? RM: Yeah, when you tie that in with the world events happening in 1941, things happened pretty gosh darn fast. AV: When you think back on those times, do you think back on those times as hard times or were they enjoyable times? RM: They were enjoyable times, but we _, we went to the same grade school and high school, and we knew our kids, neighborhoods you know. So the relationship between the community and all that was very close. And everybody, everybody was in the same circumstance, there wasn't any money. I recall as a youngster going to, let's say in the ‘30's and ‘40's _ come to the back door of our house and knock on the door and ask for work or food because they were broke. They just didn't have any job. And these men, _ remember, I don't recall any women appearing at our back door. But mother would always say well, come on in and have something to eat and if you can do some work for us, out in the yard or something, OK. These people were very proud, very proud. And you can understand why. So throughout that period of time, we got along, but you didn't have a lot of extraneous matter, you didn't go to shows or things like that. We had picnics which were good, but they were just like, what do you call them, pot luck dinners? AV: You didn't tell me, you said you're in college at this point and you decided to take a _, path as far as your education. And I think you had mentioned about that time, Pearl Harbor was _. Do you recall where you were? RM: Yes, I was on a date. I was on a date with my wife bowling of all things. And it was a Sunday afternoon by this time you know, what between Akron and Hawaii it was about six and a half hours delay, difference. Word came out that Pearl Harbor had been attacked. AV: How did you first hear it, did somebody say something? RM: On the radio, on the radio. AV: So did you hear it while you were bowling? RM: Oh sure, sure. And people looked at each other and kind of said the name. Pearl Harbor didn't ring a bell at all. Because even though we had geography and history and everything, you don't know. AV: You didn't know the naval base was there? RM: No, no. So from that time, I think it was Monday, the following Monday that President Roosevelt appeared at the joint session of Congress and announced the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, the Day of Infamy, do you remember that? AV: That day when you first heard about it, you just kind of kept on about your business, it really didn't register? RM: No, no. It registered that there was a disaster, that because the announcers, and don't ask me who they were, I don't know. But they went on to explain that the Pacific fleet was just destroyed. And later on we saw pictures of it, newsreels in the movie house. We didn't have television; there was no television. So that's the way it started. AV: So at that point in time, you're in college, where does the military come in? RM: As I said, I tried, and I think I wasn't doing _ students who graduated from high school that were starting in their college work, they didn't know what they wanted to do, what degree they wanted to get. And then to have something like this happen. Everything changed just overnight, patriotism reared its head like you can't believe. Everybody is parading around calling Japs pretty bad names and wanting to retaliate, and that's the first thing that came to my mind. And I told Robert and my mom… AV: Robert is your brother? RM: Yes. That I wanted to enlist, and he says no. You have to help contribute to the care of my mom. And I knew that my brother already had a draft number, and so did I, but it hadn't come up; it hadn't been pulled. You follow me? So he said you just keep on doing what you're doing because I don't know if I'll go first or you'll go first or what because the draft was on. OK. As it turned out, my number came up in June of, May of '42. Up until that time I had never really thought of a military career, not a bit. So I was called down to the draft board and they said, well you are going to go into the Army. AV: Did you get your draft notice in the mail? RM: Yes, you get a letter that says “greetings.” AV: Oh, really. Was it postmarked? RM: No, it was a form letter from Uncle Sam. Selective service I think. It said greetings, you are hereby ordered to, something to the effect that you were inducted. I don't think it said the words for the duration. It could have for x number of months or years in the United States Army. And you will report within, let's say two weeks, to Fort Hays, Columbus, Ohio, which is down there, Columbus, Ohio, right outside, in fact it was in the city limits, just like Fort McPherson is in the city limits here. AV: And that's a base? RM: It's not a base, it's a post. The army calls them posts or camps. The navy and marines call them bases, and the airforce, too. So terminology, I was told to report to Fort Hays, Columbus, Ohio, by I think it was May or June of 1942. AV: At that time, you received that notice, you said you were interested in joining before, were you elated, were you excited? RM: Well, I think I was excited, I think everybody. Because I had a lot of buddies that I played ball with and different sports, and we were all about the same age. This was 19, yeah 18-19 years of age. And you knew that you were subject to draft; you knew you were. And a lot of them decided well, I'm not going to wait for the draft, I'm going to enlist. Well, you could enlist at that time for three years in the army. But I was drafted, and I went to Fort Hays. I left, I wasn't married at the time. She came down to the railroad station in Akron, Ohio, and my mom was there, my brother was there because he hadn't been drafted yet. And I went up in civilian clothes and I went down to Fort Hays. AV: Take any clothes with you? RM: Just a handbag. AV: What did they tell you to take? RM: Shaving kit, toothpaste, toothbrush, hairbrush, a change of underwear, a change of underwear, and that's about it. Because once you're drafted, already have the other draftees been sworn in. That's done at the draftboard, yeah, that's done at the draftboard. You're sworn in as a private in the army. We made $21 a month; that was the pay scale. I went down to Fort Hays and was inducted formally, and I went through that line at the quartermaster warehouse. They gave you uniforms and they gave you shoes and boots and everything. You form up into companies, and you're in the army. It's an eye opener, because none of us had ever been in the military before. AV: At this point, you're in basic training. Basic training I believe is three weeks. RM: Oh, gosh, no, it was eight weeks. AV: Eight weeks. RM: But this is not basic training. This is induction. For basic training, you had to take a series of tests when you first go in. Those tests determine for the army what branch of service you're going in to. Well, I made a pretty high score, and it's like an IQ test. I was assigned to go to basic training in the signal corps to learn to be a signalman, OK. Once that was published, and a few of the buddies that I went with, we were sent from Fort Hays, Columbus, Ohio, to Camp Crowder, Missouri, which is in the, right outside the city of Joplin. And that was a signal corps basic training camp. We learned how to splice wire, how to operate radios, how to do the Morse code, all that kind of stuff. AV: Did you enjoy it? RM: Oh, absolutely. Everybody did, sure. Because you were out, misery loves company I guess. But we did. And you could take basic training, you learned to be a soldier, how to stand tall, how to do right face, left face, about face. Basic things, you know, how to march and clean your rifle and shoot it and how to shoot pistols and machine guns. AV: Did you enjoy machine guns? RM: I didn't enjoy it, I did I guess. I had never gone much into hunting because growing up in the city, we didn't do much hunting. Grace's brothers, my wife, she and her brothers had done hunting and fishing and everything. In basic training, you learn how to become a real soldier. AV: During the basic training time, can you think back from an important time when you went into the military during basic training, any bad experiences that you had that kind of stick out in your mind? RM: A couple come to mind. Not so much at basic training but a little bit later, and I'll explain that. You now are associated with soldiers from all over the country. And my buddy who I became very close to was from… AV: What's his name? RM: His name was Floyd Lingenfelter. Floyd… AV: He was the same age as you? RM: About, just about. AV: Where was he from? RM: From Claymore, Oklahoma. And when we first met, I had never met anybody from Oklahoma, let alone outside of Ohio and Akron. But Floyd says well, I'm from Claymore, Oklahoma, are you familiar with Claymore, Oklahoma? I said, absolutely not. I said, what is it famous for? He says it's the home of Will Rogers. Well now, that name rings a bell, because he was very popular you know. He says that's where I grew up and graduated. So you become very, very close to soldiers, you know. buddies, that's the term that you used. And it worked out very fine because he and I went through the entire basic training together. Then after basic training, the army has what is called AIT, advanced infantry training. Advanced individual training some people put because they didn't want to go in the infantry, OK. My assignment when I finished that basic training was to radio school to learn operation of the radio, Morse code and all that stuff in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Then I went back east, real close to Akron, Ohio, only three or four hours away from Akron. When I got there, Floyd Lingenfelter went with me on the train. We traveled always by train in uniform, and we got to Pittsburgh, and there were probably about sixty soldiers, all privates that started into the radio school. It was called Keystone Radio School in Pittsburg, Pennsylvania, it _ prior, former Pontiac garage, the military now, by this time, it's 1942, had taken over a lot of buildings, a lot of facilities. And the radio school, the orderly room, in other words headquarters for the school, was on the ground floor. Then the room where the cars used to go up to get serviced, oil change, was the barracks. Floyd Lingenfelter and I were assigned there, he had the upper bunk, and I had the lower bunk. That's where we went through radio school. AV: In basic training, what was the bad experience? RM: The bad experience there was watching the men throw a hand grenade, and you had to learn how to throw a hand grenade. It exploded, he wasn't killed, but he got injured because he didn't throw it far enough. One of the things that they tell you very early on, when you take the pin out of the hand grenade, it's armed, it's ready to go. And as long as you keep your hand on the hand grenade with the flange against your hand, when you throw it, because you pulled the pin, the flange comes off, and now it's armed. And there's about 4 and a half seconds before it explodes. Well, they teach you to duck down behind the sand bags. He didn't quite get down before it exploded, and he got injured pretty bad. That's the one thing that really stands out, and that happens time and time again. AV: So you were in radio school in 1942. I guess the war has progressed. What happens after radio school? RM: One thing that is interesting, being in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, which is a very beautiful metropolitan city, here are soldiers in uniform in town. When you go outside, you are sort of a strange breed of cat. But these same folks that look at you have sons or husbands or daughters or uncles that are in the same condition you are. But I remember vividly that on Sunday mornings, usually, there would be lines of cars that would come up in front of the Pontiac garage to pick up the GIs to take them to dinner. They wanted to show their patriotism, they wanted to talk because their son was now maybe over in the Pacific someplace. So that was beautiful, you really appreciate your fellow citizens. The patriotism was 100 percent. Oh, you had a conscientious objector, I'm sure, I didn't know any. But the people came there, wanted to show their respect, to take care of you. When we graduated, I was assigned, I had been promoted to corporal. I was assigned to the 13th armored division in Camp Beale, California, which is way up by Marysville, California. That's way across country. AV: Do you remember how you got there? RM: Sure, by train. Everybody moved by train. But the thing that I remember about graduation in Pittsburgh, my mother, my future wife, and my brother who hadn't been inducted yet, came to Pittsburgh, oh, 120, 130 miles away from Akron. And they saw me graduate there, and I have pictures, our family pictures that were taken there. When I got ready to leave Pittsburgh, you go on a troop train because it's just loaded with soldiers, civilians trying to get on board, but they came second, the military is first. So I went all the way from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, through Chicago, out west, out to Sacramento. And from Sacramento came real California, I suppose about 40 miles, 50 miles outside of the city. Camp Beale at that time was just being built with army barracks and all that. It was messy, it was muddy and everything. It later became, after World War II, Beale Air Force Base, it's still there today. So I was assigned to the 13th armored division which was, rumors start flying among GI's, and the term GI means government issue, so you're a government issue soldier. But we _ do the job, and we learned how to operate fixed station radio, _, Morse code and all that and _ radio too. AV: What did you think about being in an armored division? RM: Well, that was one thing that I'd never been before. It was exciting because you didn't know what your armament assignment was going to be. I did as I was told and ultimately along about, it was 1943 by this time, the company commander of the company that I was with, training to be in the armored division, called me in one day and said, you are to appear before a board of officers for possible officer candidate school training. AV: Do you remember the name of that gentleman? RM: No. I know he was a signal corps, semaphore flags on their collar. AV: _ news, what happened? RM: I had expressed a thought that I'd like to become a commissioned officer, and I wasn't aware of what it would take. But anyhow, he called me and said, well you are here because of your scores, again going back to induction. You will appear before a board of officers, and you will either pass or fail as the case may be, because there are other soldiers coming in, too. So dress up in your finest uniform and you will report. Sitting on the board at that time were three full colonels. I had never been that close to a full colonel in my life, and it scares the hell out of you. But two of them, one was an infantry officer, one was an armored officer, and one was a signal corps officer. So they question you, they try to put you at ease, but you're at attention. But anyhow, I remember that the signal corps officer, asking me, well, why do you think you would be a good signal corps officer. And I said, well, sir, I've taken basic training. I know Morse code, I know how to operate a radio, I know how to do this and that. And he sort of snickered a little bit, and he said there's more to being in the signal corps than just that. I think that he's expressing his opinion, I think you'd make a good infantry officer. The infantryman, the other officer, they perked up their head, that's a good idea. Ultimately they recommended that I be transferred from Camp Beale, California, to school at Fort Benning, Georgia, to go to officer's candidate school, OCS. AV: When he said that, what went through your mind, what was the first thing on your mind when he said that? RM: I thought to myself, well, I get to be an officer, and I'll be in the infantry, that's a good branch of service. _ and you had heard about the infantry, the marines, and all that kind of stuff, so… AV: _excited? RM: Oh, absolutely. So I got on the train in Camp Beale. And by this time, my sister had married a couple of years before and had moved with her husband to Phoenix, Arizona, because Phoenix had a Goodyear Tire and Rubber Company plant there, and he was associated with that. He wasn't in the military yet, I don't know whether he ever was, but not then. AV: What year was this that you….? RM: That would have been 1943, because I arrived, when I left Fort, not Fort, but Camp Beale, it was just after Christmas 1943. I remember going with my buddy to a show in Marysville, California, and seeing Bing Crosby in, what's the name of that I'm trying to think of, it has such a beautiful song associated with it. AV: I'm not sure. RM: I'll remember it. But we down, we saw that movie, we came back. I lost track of Floyd at that time. He was assigned someplace else, and… back to Fort Benning. But on the way, I purposely knew that my sister and by this time my mom was in Phoenix. What had happened, when Robert, my brother was drafted, my mom had to, she was by herself. Her daughter had already left, I'd left, and Robert had left. So my sister said, why don't you come out to Phoenix and live with us, because you can't take care of yourself. So she did. At that time, keep in mind now that travel was very difficult. My mother rode a Greyhound bus from Akron, Ohio, to Phoenix, Arizona, she couldn't even get off the bus. She was just too exhausted, too distraught. She died in Phoenix in January of 1943, just after I… I saw her in the hospital, and that's the last time I saw her. AV: What did she die of? RM: She just died. I suspect of stress and overexertion. There wasn't any kind of a heart attack. But she was completely exhausted because of the long trip, because of the uncertainty. She didn't know what was going to happen. She didn't have her husband. She didn't have family, we were all gone, and that got to her. AV: How old was she? RM: About 53. AV: Tell me, so we're at Fort Benning. RM: When I left there, I went to Fort Benning. And that's where I found out that she had died. When I reported to Fort Benning, I was now a staff sergeant because all of the candidates, officer candidates were immediately promoted to what we call E-5, staff sergeant. And you're a candidate but you weren't called sergeant, you were called candidate. So when I arrived at Fort Benning after a long, long trip across the country, I was called into the company commander's office, and the first sergeant said the company commander wants to see you. And he's, I reported to him. He said, we have word through the Red Cross that your mom has died in Phoenix, and we are prepared to give you emergency leave because your brother who's now in the army air corps in Colorado had gotten in touch with the Red Cross to have the body transported from Phoenix to Akron, Ohio, for the burial. And you are hereby given the opportunity to take a thirty day leave. You won't start school yet. So I said, well, I don't have any money, I just don't have any money to buy a train ticket all the way. They said, don't you worry about that, the Red Cross will give you your tickets both going and coming, and they did. We buried my mom in a little town of Freeport, Ohio, which is down real close to Columbus, Ohio. Her husband was there, so they're now together, OK. That was the only time in my military career that I saw my brother and I in uniform. So he had come, and he was now in the army air corps long before the air force. AV: What was his rank? RM: He was a private. PFC or something. Our daughter, our sister was not able to come back from Phoenix, there just wasn't enough money. So then I left Akron and went back to Fort Benning and started OCS, which was a 90 day wonder, that's what they called us, 90-day wonder. And I graduated as a 2nd Lieutenant, Infantry, in May of 1943. AV: OK, what was your next step after that? RM: Everybody had their orders from the war department, that's what it was known as at that time, got all these second lieutenants, brand new infantry, and they needed them. They were sent all over, all across the country. I was assigned to a post called Camp Fannin, Texas, which is right outside the city of Tyler. It's in eastern Texas, I'd never been to Texas, I'd heard a lot about it. Anyhow, before I left home, I asked Grace to marry me, and she thought about that for a while and finally she said, excuse me, she said . . . I'll have to go back Archer, I'm sorry. When I came home for my mom's funeral, after the funeral and I still had a few days leave left, I asked Grace to marry me, and she said let's think about it. And during my OCS days I kept writing, and she finally said yes. And I said, well wait until I'm a 2nd lieutenant, an officer, and then we'll get married. So I got 2nd lieutenant's commission, and I went to Camp Fannin, Texas. Then I called back, and I said, well, will you come to Tyler, Texas, which is the railroad station, and we'll get married there. And she said yes. And her escapade on the train was just like my mom's. You sit on your luggage because the soldiers are all over the place and they have priority. So she came, we got married June 19, 1943, in Tyler, Texas. AV: When, at what point did you go across seas? RM: After we got married and I was working there as a 2nd lieutenant in a training center with raw recruits you know, word came out that about three or four of us were going to be transferred to Camp Polk, Louisiana. Most of the places in the army at that time were known as camps, not forts, _ become forts. Camp Polk, Louisiana, was where the maneuvers were being held. I knew that we couldn't stay together, my wife and I, very long, but we traveled from Camp Fannin, Tyler, to Camp Polk. When we got there, they said, well, your regiment that you're going to join is with the 88th division, and they're at Fort Sam Houston, Texas, the 349th Infantry, and you are to report to Fort Sam Houston, Texas within 10 days or so. So Grace and I went to Fort Sam which is in San Antonio. We established our little home there in an apartment. I was making at that time as a 2nd lieutenant $120 a month, which was unbelievable. AV: At that time unbelievable meaning great? RM: Oh, absolutely, yeah. I've never seen that much money in my life, and neither had anybody else. Anyhow, we lived there, and she went to work. She went to work for the YMCA, no, not the YM, the YWCA there in San Antonio. We stayed in Fort Sam Houston, Texas, for probably two or three weeks and then the division, by this time off of maneuvers, was ordered to go to overseas. AV: Where did you go, where were you ordered to go to? RM: You didn't know. All we were told that your unit that I had joined, headquarters company, 3rd battalion, 349th infantry was to board a train and that train was going to Newport News, Virginia, which is right outside of Norfolk. And there we were going to get on a boat and go someplace. We had no idea where. AV: So did your wife _? RM: No, I got sick as a dog. I'd never been on the ocean before, and I'd say 80 percent of my fellow soldiers and officers were in the same kit and kaboodle. But I was a little bit privileged because I was a commissioned officer you see, and the soldiers were way down in the hold. It wasn't bad, it took us on the SS Scotland. It was a private passenger line out of Scotland. It sailed by itself without any protection from destroyers because of its speed. We left Newport News, Virginia, and sailed for about eight or nine days and arrived in Casablanca and Morocco. AV: That's pretty fast. RM: Yeah, we never experienced any problem. Anyhow, we got the division, we had three regiments, 349th, 350th, 351st. You had probably the entire division, about 15,000 soldiers, troops, all together, officers and men. We got to Africa just at the close of the African campaign. If you'll recall, General Patton had been opposed and fought against Field Marshal Irwin Rommel who was quite the problem. The combat in Africa, we didn't see it. Some of our people in the 88th division, sort of what we call an advanced party, you go out and learn a little bit about combat and artillery fire and small arms. But I didn't engage in combat there. Ultimately we moved from north Africa to Oran, Algeria. Oran is a port city in north Africa, right on the Mediterranean sea. We again, this is now… AV: What year was that? RM: I was just trying to think. 1943, it would have been again about, or 1944. Excuse me. AV: This is during the winter time? RM: Oh, yeah, we sailed from Oran to Naples across the Mediterranean, this with escort vessels, navy and other services and other countries. We landed in Naples, and finally about May of 1944, yeah, April or May of 1944, I went into the line with my unit against German forces at a place called Minturno. AV: How do you spell that? RM: Minturno. This little map here I think will show you, let me see if I can find it. I thought there was a map here. AV: Its OK. RM: In any event, if you'll look at the map of Italy, right there… (Both talking). RM: Here's the city of Naples right here going up this highway, toward _, the _ we went in the line about right here, just west of the city of Naples. And then from that time on was the 88th division _ to the Alps to the Brenner pass. The interesting thing is we had never been in combat before, and the German army was very strong, very professional. AV: When you were there, can you tell me a little bit about your first combat? RM: My job in the battalion was the communications officer of the infantry battalion. The battalion had three rifle companies, and then you had one weapons company, four companies. Then you had what was called the headquarters company. The headquarters company has the commanding officer, communications, intelligence, and logistics for supply. It was our job, it was my job as the communications officer to make sure the battalion commander, a lieutenant colonel at that time, was always in communication with his company commanders regardless of what was happening, artillery fire, small arms fire. When I say small arms fire, I mean rifles, machine guns, things like that. So I stayed as the communications officer with the 3rd battalion all the way from just north of Naples for the next year or 18 months, 14 months until the end of the war. I wasn't injured, I was not injured. I was blown up one time later on after we had passed through Rome up by Florence, Italy. From Florence, we went up into the Apennines, something like that, which is the first time we had been real mountainous terrain. All units were fighting in the mountains. And I happened to be assigned one day by the battalion commander to establish radio contact with outpost, which was, oh, I suppose 100, 150 yards ahead in an old bombed out building. So I took a machine gun crew, three guys and myself, and one radio operator, and we crawled as close as we could get to the building. Unfortunately, by this time I am a 1st lieutenant. I had been promoted to 1st lieutenant. I should have kept my eyes open and looked around a little bit more because there was a German tank probably about 200 yards… TAPE 1 SIDE B … and as we were setting up our machine gun and establishing communications with the elements there, the guy who was the tank commander probably saw us through his telescope. And he fired two rounds out of his tank. We're talking about as far as from here to across the street you know. That's what is known as direct fire. Well, when it hit, three of us were blown about 50 feet, just blown up. One man was killed, one man was seriously wounded, and I didn't have a scratch. I didn't have a scratch. To this day, I don't know how. But anyway… AV: Do you remember the feeling of it? RM: Oh, yeah. AV: What was it, was it surprise? RM: As _ you're a communications, radio and machine gun unit, _ because you don't want to expose yourself _ prone position because everybody, we've got these steel helmets on, and it's now pretty much wintertime, not quite, there's no snow on the ground, at least I don't remember there was. And just as we got word to establish contact with the battalion commander, I raised my head and I saw the flash. I'll never forget it, I saw the flash of the gun, which is very close. And it travels so fast, the trajectory. You see the flash and it's on you. There's no way that you're going to get out of it. The building where we, it was already bombed out, but it exploded, the crew exploded. I don't know what happened, and we were just thrown. As it turned out, all of us were decorated for that action. As I say, I was the only one that wasn't injured. AV: Do you remember the names of the other two? RM: No, I really don't. It would be in my book. There's a book that I have at home, it's a hardbound book, it's called The Blue Devils at Italy. I have it at home, but I didn't bring it. Well, we were referred to, and I might point this out to you, you see this patch. This patch was a cloverleaf, a blue cloverleaf, one 88, one 8 horizontal, one 8 vertical. And Axis Sally, who was one of the propaganda gals, she said, she gave us the name The Blue Devils, and that name stuck all the way through. AV: That was _ when you were in combat, do you remember any other instances? RM: There were a lot of instances where there was shooting and you're trying to do your job. In the communications for the battalion, you have a wire section, a radio section, a message center section. And all these soldiers are doing their job all the time. The battalion commander is trying to make sure he knows what's going on 100 – 150 yards to his front where the rifle companies are located. And you go back and forth, people _. If you think about it, you can't lay too much wire because the artillery fire will just blow it up. So we rely a great deal on the radio, hand held radio and a backpack radio. But not all the time, didn't have communication all of the time, but we did a lot of the time. Now combat is something that, I never experienced hand-to-hand combat. I experienced shooting at soldiers, the enemy, and it is not good. That's about all I can say. AV: Do you remember taking the first _ soldier? RM: Oh, prisoners? Or killing them? Yes. It's very, very bad because you're doing a job. It's either him or you, it's that simple, basic. And if you don't shoot and get him, he's going to get you. AV: When you're that young, you're really not thinking about it as, do you kind of want to expand on what's going through your mind at that age. RM: That's a good point. You're never prepared to take another person's life. Let's put it that way. You're trained to fire, you are trained to shoot, and you always aim for the heart or the head you know. But I remember _ coming down and you look through your sights and you see a human being out there, it's rather stark at that point. But the soldiers, they know that they've got to do it, because well, it's either him or us. AV: _. RM: You're always under apprehension, you really are. I think some people can control a little bit of fear better than others, but if anybody tells you they weren't scared, they're just lying. AV: As far as your combat experiences, what's the closest you ever _? RM: Oh, gosh, as far as _ but we never got to the point, at least I didn't as an individual officer or soldier, to using my bayonet to stab somebody in the heart or stomach or something like that. It was always a little bit apart. But the reason we were not close is because we went out to get a prisoner and we got him. AV: Do you want to tell us a little bit about that. RM: Well, it was one of those things you go out at night, you know where he is. Oh, you'd better know where he is because he could infiltrate your position just as you can infiltrate his. But you always have outposts, listening posts if you will, ahead of your main line of resistance. The army calls it the MLR, the main line of resistance, that's where most of the foxholes _ buddies, pointing all weapons in one direction. AV: So in this excursion…? RM: What happens, every company, every battalion always sends out patrols to find out where the strength of the enemy is, where his heavy weapons are, where his mortars, where his machine guns. And you'll go out sometimes with the objective of destroying a gun position or in our case, this one particular time, to capture a prisoner. To get a prisoner and bring him back so you can find out what unit you're facing, how strong is it, do they have any tanks, excuse me, do they have any artillery, and all that kind of stuff. AV: So when you were ordered to do this, were you in charge? RM: Yes, I was the patrol leader, and I had six or seven men, I can't remember. AV: Did you know how to do this? RM: Oh, sure, we'd been out on patrol. AV: Did you know how to actually go out and obtain…? RM: What you have to do is, you have to infiltrate at dark, you don't go out in the daylight hours. You are told, and you tell your soldiers, OK, make sure you've got your weapon loaded and the safety is off. You look at a map, we're going here, I think that position that we're going to try to capture is about 50, 60, 70 yards to our front. AV: Pretty doggone close? RM: Oh, it's very close. _ very close. So you start moving and you move very quietly, and you crawl to the best of your ability until you get into a position where you can see your soldiers and you use hand signals. You never talk, you use hand signals. And you get into a position, and this happened to be a machine gun position. And sure enough, there are three soldiers in there. And just as we jumped in to get them, two of them stood up and our soldiers just shot them and killed them. One man wasn't hit so we drug him out of the hole and we were able to scamper back to our friendly lines and we had our prisoner. He was as scared as we were. AV: How many were in your party? RM: Probably six or seven. AV: So how old would say this prisoner is? RM: He's a young man, probably about our age, maybe 18, 19. He was in the German army, probably conscripted, drafted if you will, scared to death. But we took him by surprise. He didn't get a chance to raise his rifle. He stayed down, but that's where we got him. These things are so basic and you learn as you're crawling along, what was I taught, what was I taught here? And it came to fruition that we got the prisoner, and we brought him back and turn him over to the higher echelon and the intelligence people, and they interrogate him. You got him, your job is done. AV: When you're doing this _ trained, and I imagine you're quite afraid, but at the same time aren't you kind of excited? RM: You're excited and confident that you can get the job done. Exactly. AV: So in combat, is it in a sport, you're trying to do your job, but at the same time trying to do it well. RM: Yeah, very similar. You have an opponent. I don't care whether he's a football player, basketball player, or a soldier. The only difference is that opponent has a weapon, and it's a lethal weapon, and he's ready to use it against you at the drop of a hat. AV: How is it going against your _ when if you're in a sport, you can lose your life if you made a mistake, in this one, how do you get over that fear? RM: Well, you really don't, Archer, you don't get over the fear. I think it's always there. People in close combat, and that's what I'm talking about, the infantry man, the tanker who is exposed out here, the artilleryman for that matter, you've always got apprehension, is it going to happen. You don't think about it, really. You try to put it in the back of your mind. I can do my job and I hope I come out all right. But there's always that fear, sure. AV: When you got this soldier back, you said that these guys were pretty vulnerable. RM: Oh, very much so. AV: What were they dressed like, what were they _? RM: They had uniforms, I recall they had a helmet that you see pictures of the Nazi soldier. He was a white man, a little _ at that time, and he was a member of the unit, a member of the gun crew you see. He had his clothes on, he had his uniform on, he had his pistol belt, and I don't know, I can't remember if he had a sidearm, a pistol or not, but I know most gun crews have sidearms when they're firing their main weapon. He was not an officer, he was an enlisted man. _ every officer was in the foxhole. So you capture him, he knows that his war was just about over, but you still have the artillery fire and all that kind of stuff. So the apprehension is never gone, it's always there. AV: So let's move ahead a little bit. I noticed that you've been in Italy, north Africa, now you're in Germany. RM: Well, what happens is as the war progressed in Italy, we went through all the way, all the way to the Alps. And this is the book that I brought. AV: We'll get a picture of that in just a… RM: This is a book that… AV: Hold it up. Nineteen days… RM: Nineteen days from the _ mountains to the Alps. That is the map here. Here's a _ Florence. This is _, this border is between Italy and Switzerland. You see, that's Switzerland right there. You're attacking from about here. This is towards the end of the war, this is now 1945, OK. You can see here the _ are gone. You see this line right here, Archer, those four stars or crosses. That is the line between the 5th army and the British 8th army. And we're all going towards the enemy. We finally stopped the _ if I can show you where's the Brenner pass. Right here I believe is the Brenner pass, no, no, it's not, I was wrong. Anyhow, that's where the 5th army advanced and the 8th army, 7th army from Germany _ come down through Switzerland and Austria. Austria not Switzerland, and they joined up. And that's where the war ended in May of 1945. From that time on, I _ back home. I had enough points, you get points. AV: Do you want to share a little bit about some of the _? RM: Oh yeah, I can show you this. this cartoon was drawn… OK that's a very good point, let me see if I can find the city here. About right there, you see this line. This is the border between Austria and Switzerland and Italy. Right about right here. You see the town of [vatsano], OK, that was a major German headquarters. When the war was over, our unit that I was with stopped the war probably about where my finger is, right just below the Brenner pass. We occupied a city that was named Merano. And the interesting thing about the town of Merano was every building was painted with a red cross because it was a hospital center. It had never been bombed; it had never been attacked. And we occupied it, and our job was to now send back to Germany all of the German soldiers that were ambulatory, that could walk. And it was an occupation, and that was what we had to do. While there, we got word that there was a couple, these two people here, his name is, oh, I'm sorry, his name was Jean Mchaire, and he was a former minister of information and propaganda for Vichy, France, ally to Nazi Germany. We got word from intelligence channels that these two people were trying to escape from Italy into Switzerland. So we sent a patrol out and we… AV: and you were…? RM: I wasn't in that patrol, no, no, I wasn't in that patrol. When they got these two people, they got them back to the battalion headquarters, and this is a picture of me with the two people right after they were captured and brought back. AV: Look at that photograph. Can you tell me a little bit about, what date was this? RM: Well, this would have been probably in May, late May of 1945. I don't see a date on here. Yeah, there's a date on here, sure there is. May 14, 1945. Just after the war. AV: It looks to me like you, who took this photograph? RM: A sergeant in the Stars and Stripes, the newspaper. AV: And they don't appear to be like prisoners. RM: Well, because they're civilians. They're civilians. We had received word that there is a man and a woman who are real high officials in the French government who collaborated with the Germans, the Nazis, and the company was assigned to go out and get them, if they could find them. They did, and they brought them back. And that's when that picture was taken. AV: It looks like you're communicating with them? RM: Yes, because they could both speak English. Well, I knew that we had, my job by this time, I had been as I said promoted to 1st lieutenant, and that's what I'm wearing there. But it was my job to tell them that they were going to be sent back to regimental and division headquarters to be interrogated by the American army. AV: Interrogation, I would assume is a bad thing. RM: It's questioning. They were _ describe too, what is he doing, what is _ as it turned out. AV: Here's a picture of a bit nervous. RM: Oh, absolutely, she's smoking a cigarette all the time. She can't, neither can he, if you want to see _ a picture. AV: Did they come across as personable and nice people? RM: They came across as people who were very, very glad that now they're in the hands of the Americans. Because had they stayed with the Germans, they probably would have been executed. They wanted to get away from the German army and go to Switzerland where they were protected because it was a neutral country. AV: So in a sense, when they were apprehended by the United States, they certainly were not _? RM: Oh, no, they wouldn't put up with any opposition. AV: They were not bound by any type of handcuffs. There is no, really, any threat to you. RM: No, they're very docile. They know that they're in the hands of the army. At least they think that nobody is going to harm them. And now I've told them that they're going back to be interrogated by the higher officials. And that's exactly what happened. Now from that time that those pictures were taken in May, I stayed with the unit which was the 3rd battalion, 349th, probably for about two months. And if you'll recall, the war's still on in Japan in the far east, so some of the people, officers and men knew that they would be sent to the far east to continue fighting the Japs this time. AV: Yeah, and I noticed that you had also been to Japan. RM: Yes, but that's another story later on. As it turned out, I was ordered from the division to go back to 5th army headquarters. I became a staff officer at 5th army headquarters. I still was a 1st lieutenant infantry, and I worked in 5th army headquarters until the word came out you're going home, you're going back to America. AV: How did the word come out to you? RM: How it came out, by telegram through the channels you know. Not just myself but a few others, so we moved probably individually from Lake _ up very close to the Swiss border and the Austrian border, from there down to the city of [Lakehorn] where we got on a ship and came back to America. On the way back home, I guess about November of 1945. By this time, I think it was August that the Japanese surrendered right after the atomic bomb. So the war was over. I knew that I wouldn't have to go to the far east. I was still in the army, and I was _ the United States, AUS, that's because I graduated from officer candidate school. There were three categories, sort of national guard, reserve, and regular army. The regular army would be officers who were graduated from West Point or ROTC and they got that kind of commission. AV: We've got about 15 more minutes. RM: OK. I came home, I met my wife. She hadn't seen me for two and a half years, and it was a great reunion. I continued to be a reserve officer, but I was not in uniform, OK. And we established our home in Akron, Ohio. I went back to school, back to the University of Akron because I didn't have my baccalaureate degree. We had a baby, we had a girl, Deborah, and she was born in November of '46. so now time has passed by, and by this time, I'm convinced that I want to go to school in Washington, DC. AV: I want to ask you two questions. One is do you remember the day in Europe when the war in Europe was over? RM: Oh, yes. AV: What day was that for you? RM: May 2, 1945. AV: And how did that information come? RM: We got it through radio by teletype, by word of mouth. The German army has surrendered, the war is over. AV: I imagine that's pretty exhilarating. RM: You can't imagine, Archer. Everybody realized at that point in time, oh boy, I've made it. I got through this thing without being killed. I don't know. I know that we were firing our weapons in the air out of exuberance. Everybody. For the first time you can stand up in your foxhole and not be afraid that somebody's going to take a bead on your head, it's over. AV: When it was finally over, were you all anywhere around Germans? RM: Oh, yes. AV: What was their reaction? RM: Their reaction was about the same as ours. AV: What about military Germans? RM: Well, the soldiers that you are opposed to made known that the game is up. AV: And what did they do? RM: They just held up their hands, they threw down their weapons. They threw down their pistols. It's all over. It's all over. They were just as happy to be in the condition that there's no more shooting going on. So everybody was rather thrilled. I don't suppose there's any such thing as being thrilled about being a prisoner of war, but the war was over, that was the important thing for them. AV: The next question I wanted to ask was when you came back and you got back home, what impact, or what happened to you as a person personally as a result of being in combat, being in the war, being afraid for a long time, being in uncertain areas? RM: That's a very good point because it's very appropriate you ask it right now. We've got soldiers coming back from Iraq who are stressed out. There's no such thing as being comfortable with being in combat. It's something that you have to put out of your mind after you come back. It's easier said than done. It's easier said than done. I found that my military service was honorable as well as a great many other soldiers. I was glad that the war was over, that I wouldn't have to go to Japan, or the far east as we called it, and that I could get back to civilian life and continue my education, that's what I wanted to do. AV: Did you share experiences with your wife about what happened? RM: Very little. AV: Did she ask? RM: Yeah, oh yeah. But you just don't describe it in detail. I remember one thing that happened just after I came back to Akron. This must have been now, let's say January of 1946. The war in both theaters, Europe and the far east, was over. Now a very dear buddy of mine who I'd gone to school with came back from the far east. And he and I went to a bar one night, I remember that very vividly, and this was probably _. We were describing war stories, which you could do between soldiers. And sitting at the bar was a guy who was partially inebriated, and it turned out that he was an ex-marine and had fought many battles in the far east, I mean gruesome battles. And he heard us talking about this, and my buddy who had been in the far east described him, and he made some comment. I can't tell what it was, for example, but once to the effect to you guys in the army really don't know what war is all about. The marines are the real fighters. And that took Jody Palmer, that was his name, he didn't like that a bit, and I didn't like it. And we were just about ready to come to blows and the bartender stopped us. He said look, you're all former soldiers, marines. You did a good job, now let's cut out the crap and shake hands and leave the bar, and we did. So that's what _. After the war, I went to school, I went up to continue at a school called Georgetown University at Washington, DC. I decided that what I wanted to do was go into the foreign service in the American government, the diplomatic corps. The only way to do that was to go to Georgetown or other schools. My wife and I, we had a little baby girl by this time. We went to Washington, _, and I started to school at Georgetown and while in probably the first two or three or four weeks of school, I ran into an officer friend of mine who I fought with in World War II. He was on duty at the Pentagon, and he talked to me about trying to become a regular army officer. He said you can become a regular army officer if you want to make the military your career. And I talked it over with my wife Grace, and just before we decided, we had another little baby, a boy this time. And he was born in _ General hospital in Washington, DC. I said, well, that's a good idea but I never thought about being a regular army officer. But I don't have my degree. I worked to get a degree in something, and they finally assigned me in the army to Fort Knox, Kentucky to _ what is called a competitive tour for one year. When you were an officer, I was a 1st lieutenant at this time, and in the reserves, I was a captain. But when I went on active duty again to Fort Knox, I was a 1st lieutenant. I became a company commander training recruits. And it was at Fort Knox in November of 1949 by this time, I got shot in the range. A bullet went, it was an accident, but a bullet went in my neck here and stopped right here. And I was laid up for about four months in what is called Crutchfield-T_ Traction. You are flat on your back; you can't move. They're afraid if you move your head, you're going to paralyze yourself. So they lie you on the bed flat on your back and they shave your head and they put two holes in your skull drilled down about that far, and they put a little set of ice tongs, that's what it looks like. They're called Crutchfield tongs. And tied to that was a rope, it goes up over a pulley over your bed, and it hangs down and at the end of the rope is a bag of sand which keeps you absolutely immobile for a long period of time. AV: Did you recover from that? RM: Oh, yes, I recovered pretty good. The only aftereffects I had is, you know how your hands and arms feel when they're tingling when they're asleep? My hands and arms have never stopped that sensation. I had good use. I couldn't for about four months do anything, but slowly but surely the movement came back. I remember the doctor telling me, when you can do this little exercise with both hands, touch all of your fingertips with your thumb, we'll let you go and give you what is called convalescent leave. I could do it but I could never get these two fingers together until one day, I could move my arm by this time, I reached up and went like that, and now they're together. And I let out a yell and the nurse came running, and I said look, I've got them together. And she called the doctor in, and he said well open up, now close them. Hell, I couldn't close them to save my life. So that's what happened. AV: Well, first of all, I want to conclude with that, and I want to say, just coming from a person my age that I very much appreciate what you did in World War II and your service. It has really impacted my life for what you and your fellow soldiers did for us. No question about it, it's very, very important to me and other people, and it's been an honor interviewing you. RM: Thank you. AV: Thank you very, very much. RM: You're very welcome. AV: Is there anything else? RM: Well, from the time that I went in the army, and this was now 1948, at two years later, I found myself in combat again in Korea, war broke out there in June of 1950, and I stayed in Korea in combat from August 1950, when I got over there, until October 1951, in combat. I again was fortunate, I didn't get shot in combat. All I can say about Korea is it was absolute hell. There's no way to compare warfare and warfare, you just can't do it. I had always resolved, I never got warm in Korea, I couldn't get warm. And I was not alone, every soldier, marine, and navy type was the same thing. Anyhow, I stayed there and when I finally reached enough points to be rotated back home, I asked to be reassigned to Japan with the understanding that I could bring my family which was a little baby girl and boy to Japan. They agreed. I went to Japan. I served as a captain now for about a year and a half. My family joined me in Japan. And then we came back home, and for the next twenty-five years, now twenty-eight years, I was in the service. And I got promoted all the way. AV: Thank you very much. RM: Thank you, Archer.
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Extent:: 1:22:26
Original Collection:: Veterans History Project oral history recordings
Veterans History Project collection, MSS 1010, Kenan Research Center, Atlanta History Center
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