Oral history interview of Thomas Marion Johnson, Jr.

Collection:: Veterans History Project: Oral History Interviews
Title:: Oral history interview of Thomas Marion Johnson, Jr.
Creator:: Gantsoudes, Lillian
Johnson, Thomas Marion, Jr., 1925-
Date of Original:: 2004-03-31
Subject:: World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Ardennes, Battle of the, 1944-1945
Ploiești, Battles of, Ploiești, Romania, 1943-1944
Johnson, Catherine
Johnson, Benita Phinizy, 1930?-
Sweeney, Warren Edward, 1925-2014
Patton, George S. (George Smith), 1885-1945
Kirby, Lewis
Stars and Stripes (Newspaper)
Episcopal High School (Alexandria, Va.)
Virginia Military Institute
Queen Elizabeth (ship)
United States. Army. Infantry Regiment, 345th
United States. Army. Infantry Division, 87th
West Point (Transport)
Vanderbilt University
American Red Cross
United States. Coast Guard Auxiliary
Germany--History--1945-1955
Location:: Belgium, Wallonia, Luxembourg Province, Arrondissement de Bastogne, Bastogne, 50.00347, 5.71844
France, Île-de-France, Paris, 48.85341, 2.3488
France, Le Havre, 49.4938, 0.10767
France, Metz, 49.1196964, 6.1763552
Germany, Plauen, 50.4950632, 12.1346523
Moselle River, 49.0207259, 6.53803517035795
United States, Georgia, 32.75042, -83.50018
United States, Georgia, Atlanta Metropolitan Area, 33.8498, 84.4383
United States, Georgia, Chatham County, Savannah, 32.08354, -81.09983
United States, Georgia, Chattahoochee County, Fort Benning, 32.35237, -84.96882
United States, Georgia, Fulton County, Fort McPherson, 33.70733, -84.43354
United States, Georgia, Liberty County, Saint Catherines Island, 31.65689, -81.15149
United States, Georgia, Richmond County, Augusta, 33.47097, -81.97484
United States, New Jersey, Burlington County, Fort Dix, 40.02984, -74.61849
United States, New York, New York County, New York, 40.7142691, -74.0059729
United States, South Carolina, Richland County, Fort Jackson, 34.04757, -80.83335
Medium:: video recordings (physical artifacts)
mini-dv
Type:: Moving Image
Format:: video/quicktime
Description:: In this interview, Thomas Johnson describes his career in the U.S. Army in Europe during World War II. He describes his early life and family, including ancestors who served in the military. He was in college until he joined the Army and recalls how important his college military training was to his service. He believed he would be sent to the Air Rescue Squadron in Savannah, since he had already trained there. He was placed in a special training program that was going to send him back to VMI, but all orders were canceled and he became part of a group of replacement troops headed for Germany. After crossing the Atlantic, he arrived in Glasgow, then traveled to a camp near Manchester, England. After landing in France, they traveled by truck to Metz, where they immediately saw action. He recounts camping in icy, muddy fields. He describes arriving in the Saar Basin just before the Battle of the Bulge began, and how their unit was pulled out of line on Christmas Eve to relieve the southern flank at Bastogne. He was a forward observer who traveled with the company commander wherever he went and carried a fifty-pound radio on his back. He describes living in the same uniform for six weeks, shaving out of his helmet, and sleeping sitting up. He states that it was Patton's keeping them moving against the Germans that won the war. He recalls seeing victims of a town that had been bombed, including women and children, stacked along the roads. He describes frozen feet, high casualty statistics, and having to slow their pace down to wait for the Russians. He describes conflicts with Russian soldiers and how they tried to establish relationships in towns during the occupation. He talks about the system for selecting troops to go to Japan as well as the point system for returning home. He recalls his trip to Paris on a 3-day pass, his trip home aboard a transport and the welcome they received in New York. He describes being home on leave when Japan surrendered and his work at the separation center. He recalls his post-war education and career. He also tells the story of Germans landing off the coast of Georgia and relates the war service of other family members.
Thomas Johnson was in the U.S. Army in Europe during World War II.
LILLIAN GANSOUDES: My name is Lillan Gansoudes [PHONETIC], and we're doing the Veteran's History Project interview today is March 31, 2004. We're at the Atlanta History Center in Atlanta Georgia. With us today is Thomas Marion Johnson Junior. Mr. Johnson, would you repeat your name and give me your birth date? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: Thomas Marion Johnson Junior, July the 15th, 1925. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: Tell me something about where you were born and raised? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: I was born in Savannah Georgia and was raised there until I was twelve years and then I was sent off to school. But I spent time in both Savannah and Augusta. My grandparents were in Augusta, and I was the oldest of five children. And every time my mother had another child I got sent up to Augusta for a month or two, so that she could have some breathing room. When I was very young, my mother and father purchased a home out on the river on the outskirts of Savannah, actually outside of the city. And we grew up on that river which was a delightful place to have your boyhood. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: You said you went off to school, where did you go? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: I went off to school when I was twelve, Episcopal High School up in Virginia. And was there for four years and then I went to the college at Virginia Military Institute. I was there a year before I went into the Army during World War II. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: Tell me something about, just an experience maybe of Episcopal High School that you remember? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: Well of course it was my first experience with things like snow. And it was a small school, still is a relevantly small school, but has quite a wonderful background in [Unintelligible] history. My father sent me there because when he went to college, folks that did best in college when he was there had been graduates of Episcopal. And he thought that they had gotten the best preparatory education. And I must say we got a fine, fine education. I had no problems at all when I got to college. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: You said you were the oldest of five, did your siblings, did you have other brothers that went to the Episcopal or did they all go? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: I had two brothers that went to Episcopal, both of them was after me. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: What is your current occupation? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: I'm retired. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: What did you do previous? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: I was a lawyer. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: At the time of war you were at, were you drafted or did you enlist? Did you go to Virginia Military? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: No I was at VMI. The war started when I was still at Episcopal, and I in anticipation of the war, my mother's family all of them had quite a distinguished military background. My great, great grandfather was a general in the Confederate Army. My great grandfather was a drummer boy at the age of sixteen during the unfortunate War Between the States. He later became the commanding commander of the confederate veterans. And he was quite a character. My grandfather had been to VMI, and he was a colonel when the First World War broke out, but he was in the process of building roads and bridges in Virginia and they wouldn't take him in the army. They said his work at home was more important that going overseas. So he did not see action and he was very disappointed in that this was the first time that this country had been involved in a war from the time of the beginning that a member of this family was not actively involved in [Unintelligible]. I have an uncle, well had an uncle he has now passed on, who went into the army about the same time I did, but he had a quite a background with National Guard. And they put him in training units rather than in combat units, and he was very unhappy about that truth because he was going to miss out on the war. Somehow or another he volunteered and got sent overseas and was involved in actual combat for a brief period. I was over there at the same time, and other than we didn't have the same last name that didn't count. Anyhow we ended up with a quite a record of it. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: When did you graduate from high school? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: The principal at the time that I was there, by the time you'd graduated you'd finished about half of your college education. So I didn't graduate, I went to college and I was accepted when I applied, and you had to have something like nineteen credits to get into college at that point, and I had twenty two so there wasn't any point in going to school for another year waiting passing the time. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: And what year did you start VMI? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: 1942. And then I might address just a second, they realized that all of us was going to be involved in the war. So there was a conscious effort to train us for the service and law enforces. And we, I was in artillery, and they gave us full artillery training everything from a Private to a Battalion Commander. We'd perform those tasks during the year that I was I there, which came in handy at one point or another during the war. When we were getting ready to cross the line, I was Forward Observer with any one more than was in the infantry. And I got to come down while I tried to see what was worse and my artillery from the German side, and so I called back and said do you need some help. And they asked me if I could zero the artillery in for them, which I did. We zeroed the artillery in on this fortress across the river, and it was fantastic, they had, I didn't realize they had so much artillery behind us. They had forty batteries of it, and the whole thing opened up on this [Unintelligible] over there. And they blew it up near by the fort oh a couple of years ago, and it's still not in very good shape, but it was kind of a blessing in disguise because the next day when we crossed the river we didn't have a shot fired at us. We went straight across and took off like scared rabbits. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: So VMI trained you? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: Yeah. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: Well so you are at VMI did you enlist or were you drafted? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: Well when I came home, I came home to enlist. And they said well you will get in quicker if you just let us go ahead and draft you. I went down to the selected service board. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: This is in Savannah? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: Yeah. And I had been on the water all my life and they had these Rescue Squadrons in Savannah, and so they wanted to put me in one of those, because I was already trained to do that. And so I went down to enlist and get in that and they told me I would get in quicker if I got drafted, so they drafted me and I got my notice the next day and was gone. I got up to Fort McPherson and expecting to be sent back to Savannah, and they told me that I wasn't going back to Savannah just then. I had to go to Fort Benning first. And it turned out that I had taken a test at VMI, the army and the armed services were giving tests to people in various parts of the country trying to figure out was the best indication of what could happen to you. And they gave them to us at VMI, so I was closest to [Unintelligible]. And they kept records of it. And I had scored right high on the test, and they told me that I couldn't go into the Air Force; I had to go in the special training program. So I was put in this special training program. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: Was that good new to you or bad news? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: Well it didn't sound so bad at the time, because it was sending us back to college, which that sounded pretty good. Anyhow I had my assignment; I was going back to VMI as a matter of fact. And the, oh about three or four days before I was supposed to leave I was told, we were told that all orders had been canceled and that we had new orders. And it turned out that we had received infantry training down at Fort Benning for about four months prior to supposedly being sent back to college. And the war in Europe was heating up at that point and they needed a bunch of cannon fighters over there. So here well, there must have been fifteen or twenty thousand of us who were freshly trained infantry down at Benning. And they said, well heck we'll just take them and send them over as replacements. So that's what they did. And I was sent to as a replacement in the infantry division that was being formed. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: When was this? Do you remember? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: It was in the early '44. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: Early '44? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: Uh-huh. And we were sent to Jackson and we were then sent on over to Europe. I think it was about September of '44. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: You say we, were there any guys that you made friends with or that you kept up with? Tell me something about the people that you met? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: Well when we got to Fort Jackson, when we're down at Benning you didn't really have a chance to develop friendships. When we got to Jackson, the first weekend came along and they told us we could have a weekend pass and Fort Jackson is in Columbia, and that's only one hundred and fifty miles from Savannah. In the barracks I said, I got up and asked if anybody would like to go home with me for the weekend? And there were three guys who said they would. So, the four of us took off and went down to Savannah for the weekend. Two of them were fell out after the short with the other one. A fellow names Lawrence Sweeney from Cleveland, he and I have been life long friends. As a matter of fact, I talked with him last week on the phone for a while. But he and I enjoyed things together. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: Did you all stay together the whole time? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: Well weren't in the same, we were in the same company, but both of us were Forward Observers. And as Forward Observers, you were assigned rifle companies. And he was assigned one, and I was assigned to another one. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: Spell Sweeny for me? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: Who? LILLIAN GANSOUDES: Walter Sweeny… THOMAS JOHNSON JR: Lawrence. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: Spell his last name? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: S-W-E-E-N-E-Y, delightful Irish fellow from Cleveland. He had also been to a College before going into service, he'd been to Yale. And he returned to Yale after the war. I didn't return to VMI. When I came back I didn't like the military. So I went to Vanderbilt. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: Let's talk about from Columbia, where did you go next? Are you on the boat overseas or? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: We left from Columbia and they put us on a train and took us up to Fort Dix, put us on a boat. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: Did you have any training on the boat? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: We went over on the—Queen Elizabeth, and it never had been commissioned into the guard lines and it was finished off as a troop ship. And there were eighteen thousand of us on there. And it was a mess, but anyhow we crossed the ocean in a big hurry. And we landed in Glasgow and went to a so, so little camp in England over near Manchester. And we were there for two to three weeks and then we went on over to the [Unintelligible] and landed in Le Havre and they put us on trucks and we went down to Metz and went to action down in Metz. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: What were you doing during this time? Were they giving you any training or were you just traveling? What was your specialty? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: When? LILLIAN GANSOUDES: From the top, what happened from the time you landed in Glasgow till been up in Metz. THOMAS JOHNSON JR: We weren't there very long. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: Just long enough to fight. THOMAS JOHNSON JR: It was only a couple of weeks and we stayed in barracks, crude barrack like they had pot belly stove to keep them warm when it was cold over there. I mean it was snowing all down the side. And we then went across to Le Havre and unloaded there, and then unloaded us into a field. And we pitched tents, but the field was icy and muddy, it was [Unintelligible]. We weren't there long, we went on down to Metz and it was a large famous fort down there that had been pretty well taken, but we went down and finish taking the fort. And had a few shots fired back and forth, but not anything serious. And from there we went up to Basse Basin [PHONETIC] and were involved in the attack in that area for about a week. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: Tell me about that attack, what was going on, what were you doing? Were there casualties around you? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: Oh yeah. We were there for just a few days when the Battle of the Bulge broke out. And our division was in Hatten's III Army, and this was approaching Christmas because I remember we were pulled out of the line on Christmas Eve. And we were in some town, I don't remember the name of the town, and spent one night there and the next morning we loaded in trucks heading on up in the Battle of the Bulge. And we were part of the relieve the Southern part of the battle then [PHONETIC]. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: Where did you stay that night, on Christmas Eve? Is there, were you in a tent? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: We didn't stay in tents very often, there was some beat up building then. We found one that wasn't leaking and about ten of us in the room and spent the night there. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: Were there letters from home? Was there anything that made it feel like Christmas? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: The only thing that made it feel like Christmas was the lieutenant of the Rifle Company that I was assigned too at that point, came in and said that it was of course Christmas Eve, and in celebration they issued the officers a bottle of whiskey. He was going to share it with us, and so we were given each a little sip of whisky. The bottle was gone. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: Ten guys and each a sip of it. THOMAS JOHNSON JR: Well there wasn't that many, there were only about six or seven of us sitting there, because see the Forward Observers were assigned to a rifle company and you accompanied the company commander wherever you went. So, we had to carry a radio, and it wasn't one of these little cell phones. It was a fifty pound monster that you had to tote around on your back. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: What else would you take? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: You had a weapon of some sort, and I carried, most of the time I carried a forty-five automatic. Part of the time I carried a rifle and part of the time I carried, I don't what they used to call them, but anyhow it was a small rifle. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: So you got a rifle, you got forty-five, some ammunition? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: Yeah. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: Radio? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: Yes, radio was most of it, it was I think it was forty or fifty pounds worth. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: Do you have a change of clothes? In Forest Gump they talk about keeping your feet dry and having an extra pair socks. THOMAS JOHNSON JR: It was impossible to change clothes and so forth. As a matter of fact we—from the time we went into action until the time we got across the Mozell River we were unable to bathe. It was six weeks, and I have since then never enjoyed anything so much as taking a bath every day. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: So if you're not taking a bath, are you not shaving or brushing your teeth for six weeks? I mean I know these are personal questions. THOMAS JOHNSON JR: No actually we were in General Patton's army and he required you to be clean looking at all times. Even if we were smelling to high hell and all. And yet when we took a town, we had to put on ties and dress up like we were going on a dress parade. We had to stay shaved at all times except for a little mustache. You of course could brush your teeth if you could. They had water; you could carry a canteen that had some water in it. You had these twelve gallon cans that you carried on the jeeps of the company jeep. And if you get water out of those most of the time, what we would do is fill our helmets with them and heat the helmet up, and use that to shave with. I must say you didn't get very clean that way. But it was rather a happy sort of thing, but I remember when we finally got to, I think it was the Mozell River there was a camp set up there with these tents that had showers in them. And it was cold as the dickens and you could see the steam coming out of the tents from the hot water. And you come in there and went ahead and took a shower, and it felt wonderful. But then you had to get out of the shower and get in that cool weather, it was dreadful. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: Early polar bear climates, isn't it? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: Uh. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: With the amount of action that you saw, you were a forward line. Tell me sort of a typical procedure, what you're procedures would be had you been forward? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: It seemed somewhat chaotic for most of us. But you were in constant contact with the enemy. We ended up muchly went into action, combat with in moving forward, we stayed on the move for the better part of six months, and didn't go back the whole time. The only ones that went back were the folks that got wounded or something like that. I know my feet got frozen and they turned black. And I went back to the aid station to see what they could do about it, and they gave me a pair of goulashes and said put some straw in them and wear these until your feet go down. It was hard in there. But we moved on, General Patton bless his sole we cussed him every step of the way but he kept us moving against the Germans, and that's what beat them. And we-- it was hard. And that's an indication for instance, with the rifle company that I was with and the rifle company had roughly one hundred eighty people in it, like one hundred and eight men. And when the war ended there were six out of the one hundred and eighty that were still there. The rest of them had either been killed or wounded or whatever, and fortunately I was one of those six. But it was really a living nightmare for the whole time. And to see people just go to pieces, it was dreadful. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: Well when you're not sort of pushing forward, there might not have been a time where you were not pushing forward, but were there any leisure activities, any way to relieve the stress? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: The only time you could relieve the stress was when it got dark and you couldn't see where to go anymore. You'd frequently sit down and go to sleep sitting. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: So it was pretty much either for six months, either sleep or push forward? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: Uh-huh, and it was just constant, but anyhow to those of us who survived it we were happy when the war ended. The war ended when we were getting ready to, well we had gotten all the way across Germany, and we had to stop because the Russians hadn't gotten up to where we were, and the Russians were supposed to take what was in front of us. So, we had to stop and let the Russians come and take it. And then the Russians finally got there, and we… LILLIAN GANSOUDES: When you say “there” where are you talking about? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: We were on the Czechoslovakian border. Actually down a little south of Leipzig and a town called Plauen. And Plauen was a very critical place when we got there. It was a city that was at that point I'd equate it to the size to Savannah distance; it had about one hundred, one hundred twenty thousand people. And afterwards it was borrowing the oil fields down in Romania, and when they couldn't get there, they'd turn around and head back, drop the bombs heavily to get rid of them. And they were dropping them wherever they found a city that wasn't already bombed out already. Plauen happened to be one, and they unloaded on it on Easter Sunday in '45. And we got there and you can't imagine a place like that. We were told that eighteen thousand civilians had been killed. And they had them stacked along the roads; I mean four to five deep corpses of people. And we were used to then seeing corpses of men, but women and children, it broke you up. And also the smell was just unreal. You could smell it five miles away. And we took Plauen, what we did was they wouldn't let us stay in the town we had to stay outside of the time, and by that time though the Germans had departed. And we were using the Germans to help clean up things and bury the bodies, and this that and the other. And there was a sizeable Russian labor camp there, it was several thousand Russian, fortunately we quickly established with them that we were in charge and not them, which it took a while for them to understand. But I sympathize so with this Iraq situation, because here we were we had one company that was patrolling virtually the whole city and we had three jeeps and we were supposed to be keeping the law and the order. One morning we went out and on regular patrol just to make sure everything was quiet, and they came up, I mean a crowd of Russians walking up the street, and we told them to stop and they said no they wanted to go up to the warehouse up there and get some fresh clothes and things that they new the warehouse and they wanted to look and help themselves. And we said no you're not. And so, we I don't know what the army did it by design or whether it was just fortunate or what, but in our company we had a guy that spoke Czechoslovakian and I guy who spoke fluent German, I spoke some German at that point, and I spoke some French, and we had a fellow from Louisiana who could speak French better than he could speak English. And we had two guys who spoke Russian, so we could talk with anywhere we went, and had been able to do so all the way across Europe, which I thought very interesting. You would have thought they did it all on purpose, I don't think they're that smart. But anyhow, when these folks kept advancing on us, the machine, we had a machine gun on the jeep and a driver and me, there was just three of us. And the machine gunist [PHONETIC] said what do we do? And I said load the gun. And he said you need me to shoot him? And I said yep if they don't stop. And so he loaded the gun and we spoke to them and told them to stop that we would fire, because our orders were they weren't supposed to go any further. And with that, that just busted out laughing and came over, so we fired. And about a half of dozen were hit, they quickly stopped, and they picked up the casualties and went back to where they were supposed to be, and they never came back out. We then visited them regularly to try to establish a relationship with them because what they'd done in some of the other towns in Germany they had, when they'd been freed they immediately went and tried to find the mayor of the town and so forth and hung them up from lamp post and things of that nature. So we were trying to keep that from happening then, and ended up we were best of friends. I don't know where they got it from, but they got some white lightening and gave it to me. They'd have a party about every night. But it was interesting, and fortunately the war, we were then supposed to jump off to go into Czechoslovakia and that day the war ended. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: How did that feel, how did you hear that the war ended? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: We got word from the [Unintelligible] that the war was over and so we were supposed to hold up instead of dropping off. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: In front of a radio or just? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: A radio, well they had loud speakers on some of the tanks. And they had loud speakers on the tanks saying that the war was over, and the Germans didn't believe it at first. And then their radio's told them that the war was over, and so they all came out and war was over and great, it was a wonderful sort of an occasion. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: So did you-- what happened the war was over and? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: Well when the war ended it was… LILLIAN GANSOUDES: Were you still in Czechoslovakia? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: We were in Czechoslovakia and we stayed there for about a week, and then our division was being reassigned to the Pacific, in Japan. And we—what they tried to split the divisions that were the least beat up at that point to send them back, and we were one of the least beat up apparently, I don't know how in the world the others, what happened to the others. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: You were one of six; I would say you were pretty beat up. If you're not beat up then that's… THOMAS JOHNSON JR: Well we had gotten new replacements and so forth so it was-- we were full strength. And so they put us on a train and sent us back to Le Havre, which was quite a trip. But one of things that happened why we're still over there on the Czech border was I think they had a rotation system where you were sent back to the states for ninety days after you'd been over there in combat for so long, and I qualified for it. So, I was to be reassigned to get to leave back to the states. And then war ended and they said no we canceled that. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: You were just like one thing off with everything weren't you? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: Well I went off onto something else which was the Invasion of Normandy. I missed that by three days because I was still only eighteen and they, the vows that be decided they didn't want to send any eighteen year olds in on the beach, you had to be nineteen. And we got on this train and they started us back, and we went part way and had to get off. And then after that, then I was qualified for a pass to Paris, which sounded pretty darn good. And we had gotten back into well into France by then. And in order to go on one of these passes, you had to have some money. And my father bless his sole, had given me some travelers checks to take with me. And so I had one hundred dollars in traveler checks, and you had to have thirty dollars in order to go. And so I got my two buddies, Sweeney and one other guy. And the three of us went to Paris and had a ball for three days. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: Oh you finally got some time off. So, what did you do in Paris? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: We did everything, went to the Fathersburg Inn [PHONETIC] and everything else. And then we went from there onto the Le Havre where we loaded onto, what was then the WestPoint which is now the, which became The America, which the United States Depth across the Atlantic Avenue. And it was unbelievable, that was like I was on a really big ship but there was some twelve thousand of us on there. And we headed out of the harbor in the channel at forty foot waves, and the Captain of the ship came on the system and said, this was his final voyage before his retirement, and this ship he thought was the fastest ship in the world, and he was going to prove coming across the Atlantic and break the record. And he headed out of the channel there, and that boat was like a speed boat, throw the waves all the way back over the stern and so forth, and it was really rocking. It was great. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: Sea sick? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: I was going to get to that. I had gotten reacquainted with an old friend from Episcopal High as a matter of fact who had been in the division the whole time, neither one of us knew that the other one was there. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: What was his name? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: Lewis Kirby. And we decided that we would go up and watch us go out of the harbor and in the channel. And we got out there and it was really so rough that you kind of had to hang on, but then we went back inside and it smelled so dreadful everybody was sick. We finally went down to get some supper and there were about fifteen of us for supper. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: Out of twelve thousand? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: Yep, and we went in there and it was pitiful. You asked what we did for food and everything going across Europe, we had mostly [Unintelligible], which were Cracker Jack Box with a couple of tidbits in it. I lost about fifty pounds going across Europe and I was down to about one hundred and twenty pounds. My last, I wrestled in VMI and my last match I couldn't meet the weight because I couldn't get it down under one hundred and fifty-five. So that's a lot of weight to loose, but we went down to get something to eat. And we walked up to the counter and the cook's were just tickled to death to--you know we were the first ones to get on the ship who had been in combat and so forth. And they were really eager to make us happy. And he asked us what we wanted, and we said a nice big fat steak and so forth, so the Navy gave us these big old steaks. We had about two bites and we couldn't eat anymore, we were full. It was pitiful but anyhow we had it was a delightful time, we ended up staying up underneath the bridge there was kind of an overhang there and we spent the night up there watching us go out of the channel and it was fantastic. And he did end up breaking the record for Trans-Atlantic crossing. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: How long did it take? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: Three and half days. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: Wow got you back quick. THOMAS JOHNSON JR: Well we got back to New York and it didn't have a bus for us because we were a day to early. So, we had to stay at the New York Harbor for a day. And then we came on it, and it was really a beautiful… LILLIAN GANSOUDES: What was it like when you would come in? Was there people, did your family know that you were arriving, were there people there? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: No. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: No. THOMAS JOHNSON JR: But they had fire boats that did the skeet in the water and so forth. And they had them surrounding us making a big deal out of it. And they were tooting their horns and all this stuff. It was--New Yorkers know how to put on a celebration. They would do it. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: You had been gone a year? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: We'd gone not quite a year; we were gone about nine months. And we got back and we were sent down to Fort Benning, somewhere different. And I got a thirty day pass to go home before I went back, and go into the Pacific. And the war ended in that thirty days. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: So you were home when the war ended? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: Yeah, uh-huh. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: And how did you learn that? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: Well as matter of fact a friend of mine and I were on my father's boat and we were down in the ocean fishing, and we started hearing the sirens going off. And we figured that was it, so we headed home and when we got to the dock there were about ten people holding drinks out for us and stuff so, we knew the war was over. Excuse me, it does bring back very fond memories. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: It was an emotional time. THOMAS JOHNSON JR: Uh-huh. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: So are you just out of the army at that point, how does the army let you go? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: No we then had to be reassigned; well we hadn't broken up the division yet. And we had to go back to Fort Benning, and then they reassigned me to Fort McPherson here in Atlanta. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: What was your assignment here in Fort McPherson? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: I was assigned to the reception or the separation center. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: What's you rank at this point, I don't think we've even discussed your rank yet? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: At that point I was a Corporal. I had been a Sergeant at one point but I didn't agree with the way the war was being run and informed my officers about it. And they didn't like the way I informed them, so I suddenly became a private again. But got to Fort Mc [PHONETIC] and there was a man at Fort Mc in the reception center and he had happened to see me and then he had worked for my father and he immediately came over and said, “Tommy, I've got a deal for you.” I said what's that? He said I'm going to let you have my job. I said Jimmy I don't want a job, I want to get out. And he said well you'd be in a perfect position to get out quicker. And I said, what's that? He said well I'm personal sergeant major of the reception center. And the reception center is what you bring new troops into, and he said at this time we ain't got nobody coming in here, so there's nothing to do. So you won't be around long, and that will give me a chance to get out and get home and get my life back together. And I said okay. So I became Personal, Acting Personal Sergeant Major from [Unintelligible] in the infantry. And was there for, I think it was about almost two months, and during that period of time though all of a sudden they started signing up all these regular army people who had gotten temporarily commissions and so forth. And realized that if they re-enlisted they would be retired with the rank, the highest rank that held in service. And a bunch of these guys, I mean Captains, Majors, Colonels, and they [Unintelligible] Corporal, Private or whatever. And so they instead of all of them going home, they all re-enlisted because they only had another year or two to go, and they would have a fat pension, and so instead of having nothing to do… LILLIAN GANSOUDES: You did have something to do? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: Good, all of a sudden I ended up five thousand people. And the colonel was an old Army fellow who was not the sharpest, and he was frantic. All of these guys had been reassigned and he had to build army and the old army or wherever they came from. I said let's track them and find out who it was and get them transferred over to here. And he said, oh we can't do that. I said well give me an afternoon to work on it and I will. So I went to work on it and they had a whole complete unit payroll unit over in England that wasn't doing anything because we had all the guys over here, so I… LILLIAN GANSOUDES: So you had to bring those guys over from England over and let them? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: Well we had them, they flew them back and they were back in two days. And they were issuing checks and everybody was happy as they could be. And I went down and checked my records and found out that I had enough points to get out, so I wrote myself a separation notice, and gave myself a discharge and left. And the Colonel-- all he said, was just let me have your phone number in case we have a problem so I can get you back up here. And he called me twice about something and that was all I heard from him. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: So you leave Fort McPherson, you head back to Savannah, you enroll in Vanderbilt? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: Yep, well when I got back I thought I was going to have some time to goof off, but my father said, “No it's time for to get back to school now.” And I said, well I understand it's kind of difficult to do. And he said, no not at all, I've got you enrolled in three schools. You can take your pick. And I said, “What do you mean?” He said well you've been accepted at Harvard, at Wharton and Vanderbilt. And he said which one you want. And I said well I'll take Vanderbilt because it's closer. But I didn't check the railroad schedules first. It took two days to get to Vanderbilt from Savannah, whereas it only took over night to Philadelphia and Boston, but anyhow I went to Vanderbilt and I was very happy. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: What year did you graduate from Vanderbilt? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: I switched from academic school. When you've been in the army and also been to school prior to going in the army, they didn't require you to take required courses. You could take whatever you wanted to, so I took what I wanted too. And had everything I wanted by the time I'd finished my junior year. And so, I switched to law school for the last year. And decided I liked law school, so I went on to finish law school but that was in Georgia. And so I switched over from Vanderbilt to Georgia, because I had been out of the state for twenty-five years and decided about time to get home. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: What year was this, when did you start? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: I got my, well they gave me a degree in 1948 from Vanderbilt. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: And then you went to Georgia Law? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: And I finished up in Georgia, two years at Vanderbilt and one year at Georgia, and finished up at Georgia in '50. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: Did you marry? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: Yeah after. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: Where did you meet your wife? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: My wife went to school at Sweet Briar, and she and my sister, who also went to school at Sweet Briar, got to be good friends there. And it was a cute story, my sister, my mother and father had gone up to Lynchburg to take my sister out to dinner, and so they invited what became my wife to go out with them, and Katherine, my sister, told them that she had found the guy that she was going to marry and hopefully they would approve. And they discussed it during dinner and decided yep they had a good idea and so forth and so on. And during the course of the conversation said we'll have to fix Benita up with somebody now. And so they went through the possibilities, and ended up I was about the six or seven on the list. But that she knew less about me than the rest of them, so I was her target. And they really set me up beautifully for it. They invited her down for a weekend and she came down, and they had her lined up with dates the whole time she was there, so I couldn't have a date with her. But it was funny, as soon as I met this wonderful gal, I knew this was it. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: How long did yaw date? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: I had two dates with her before I had to go speak to her father and ask for her hand. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: You did know right off the bat didn't you? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: Sure did. And he thought that was absurd, and she by that time had switched to Chapel Hill where she was in school. He insisted that she finish college and she was just as insistent that she wasn't. But anyhow they ended up with a compromise and she would at least go back up there and stay until Christmas and see how things looked. And just before Christmas he called her, and said pack your things and come on home. So she came on home and we got married the following spring. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: What year was that? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: 1951. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: Do you have any children? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: Four. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: What are there names? What is your wife's name, what is her maiden name? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: Benita [Unintelligible]. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: And your children? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: Children are Thomas the third, Steve [Unintelligible], William Allen, and Mary Louise. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: Do you have grandchildren? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: Five of them, five or six, five of them. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: That's wonderful, congratulations. Before we finish is there anything else that you, when you were going through all this when you were moving with Patton, did you have any idea how historic and heroic what Patton was doing? I mean did you have any sense of that, when did you sort of gain the sense of that? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: Well we got The Stars and Stripes, which was a good propaganda sheet for Patton. But we also had an uncle who sent me the microfilm, Philadelphia newspapers, which was a great help. We usually got there within a week of the time that got publication. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: Microfilm, so how would you? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: Well instead of being a big thing, it was a piece of paper like that. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: And how would you read it? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: Well it was printed out. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: Oh, it was printed out, you said microfilm I just imagined something tiny. THOMAS JOHNSON JR: No, they reproduced it on something like that, but so we knew what was going on. And also my Aunt was in the Red Cross when one of those copy machines and so forth, and she spent practically the whole war with Patton's headquarters. And I kept trying to catch up with her, and our paths crossed but we missed by a day or so, never met. But we stayed in contact, I mean we wrote some. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: So you knew what sort of how important all of this was? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: Oh yeah. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: Is there anything in closing that you want to add about your military experience? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: Well as I mentioned to whoever it was that I talked with on the telephone, before I went in the army they had something called the Coastguard Auxiliary that was supposed to be watching out for what's happening to us and so forth along the coast in the absence of the regular coastguard people or Navy. And we were up there when the war broke out. So what they did was they put anyone who had a boat that was serviceable could volunteer their boat and let themselves to go into what they call the Coastguard Auxiliary. And the various [Unintelligible] of them and their assignments were various sounds along the coast like the one my father volunteered us for was a Saint Catherine's Island, which is down below Savannah and we, well what you had to do is go down and [Unintelligible] took care of, you went down for one night and then came back. And then another one would come by and come down and relieve you, so there were about eight or ten boats on each [Unintelligible]. And so you'd go down be patrolling and check anyone coming in and so on. I supposed it was worth while. But actually went down there one time when it was a lot of commotion, but we were under complete strict orders not to get involved in anything like combat operation. If the enemy showed we were supposed to disappear and let the regular navy and army take care of it. And something happened one time when we were down there, and we didn't find out what it was for a while. But one of the German submarines landed a crew on Saint Catherine's and we had seen indications of it, and had reported it back. And there was a radio communication between the island and the shore and they sent attention over and they captured them. And we were not involved in it, but they captured them and it was several months later we found out that these soldiers had been captured while we were there. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: How did you end up in Atlanta? After law school did you take a job here? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: No after law school I practiced law for about ten years. And then my father had an investment banking firm, a stockbroker's firm, and it had gotten to the size where they needed a lawyer in house. And I'd been educated to go into the business anyhow. And so they asked me if I would come aboard, so I did. And then after a couple of years it was obvious that Atlanta was going to be a lot bigger than Savannah and so somebody had to be transferred up to Atlanta with the name Johnson, and that was me. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: What was the name of the company? THOMAS JOHNSON JR: Johnson Main Phase [PHONETIC]. LILLIAN GANSOUDES: Anything else that you want to add? Mr. Johnson thank you so much, it was a wonderful story. We appreciate you taking the time to do this. THOMAS JOHNSON JR: You're most welcome ma'am, and in thorough sympathy with it so far as providing information in it, it's considerate. [END INTERVIEW] [CJ]
Metadata URL:: http://album.atlantahistorycenter.com/cdm/ref/collection/VHPohr/id/226
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Extent:: 59:52
Original Collection:: Veterans History Project oral history recordings
Veterans History Project collection, MSS 1010, Kenan Research Center, Atlanta History Center
Holding Institution:: Atlanta History Center
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