Oral history interview of Elliott Goldstein

Collection:: Veterans History Project: Oral History Interviews
Title:: Oral history interview of Elliott Goldstein
Creator:: Kyle, Glen
Goldstein, Elliott, 1915-2009
Date of Original:: 2004-06-07
Subject:: Judaism
Artillery--United States
M105 (Howitzer)
Atomic bomb
Bronze star Medal (U.S.)
Rationing
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Kelly, Thomas Paine, Jr., 1912-2008
Tuttle, Elbert Parr, 1897-1996
Parker, Arthur C., III, 1909-1982
Franklin, DeJohn
Brown, Arthur, Lt.
Reid, Charles Simpson, Jr., 1897-1947
Yale University
United States. Army. Judge Advocate General's Corps
Georgia National Guard
United States. Army. Infantry Division, 106th
United States. Army. Field Artillery Battalion, 589th
United States. Army. Airborne Division, 101st
United States. Army. Airborne Division, 82nd
Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiter-Partei. Schutzstaffel
Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiter-Partei. Deutscher Volkssturm
United States. Army. Judge Advocate General's Corps. Property Control Division
Location:: Belgium, Brussels Capital, Arrondissement, Brussel-Hoofdstad, City of Brussels, Brussels, 50.85045, 4.34878
Germany, 51.5, 10.5
Germany, Siegfried Line, 50.9113244, 14.2503823
Luxembourg, 49.8158683, 6.1296751
United States, Florida, Clay County, Camp Blanding, 29.94686, -81.97324
United States, Georgia, 32.75042, -83.50018
United States, Georgia, Atlanta Metropolitan Area, 33.8498, 84.4383
United States, Oklahoma, Comanche County, Lawton, Fort Sill, 34.6809319, -98.5708846797856
United States, South Carolina, Richland County, Fort Jackson, 34.04757, -80.83335
United States, Tennessee, Coffee County, Tullahoma, Camp Forrest, 35.3656346, -86.1841558
Medium:: video recordings (physical artifacts)
mini-dv
Type:: Moving Image
Format:: video/quicktime
Description:: In this interview, Elliott Goldstein remembers his history as an artillery officer in Europe during World War II. He had been drafted in 1940 although he had earned his law degree. He turned down a posting in the Judge Advocate General (JAG) Corps because he felt that it was "his war." His enlistment was deferred because the Armory burned down. He was first in the 122nd Infantry Division, but that was converted to the 179th Division. While he was on maneuvers, his apartment was broken into and his wife was badly frightened, so he transferred to another unit to be closer to home. After arriving in Europe, his unit became replacements for the 9th Division in the fall of 1944. Although they had observed signs of movement from the Germans, they were told not to worry, the Germans would never attack that area. An officer and friend from another unit warned him that the line was thin where he was and that if the Germans did attack, report it and run. Goldstein then recalls the harrowing events that followed as they were shelled by the Germans and how they discovered they had dug in directly in the axis of the advancing German troops. Goldstein describes in detail the defensive preparations they made and the process of aiming artillery. He describes the qualities of leadership he observed. He recounts atrocities committed by the Germans against American prisoners of war. He describes the effort of an Army officer who was on the Army's polo team to talk him into staying in the Army after the war.
Elliott Goldstein was an artillery officer in Europe during World War II.
Elliott Goldstein interviewed by Glen Kyle on June 7, 2004 Kyle: Just to get started, give your name for the record. Goldstein: Hi, I'm Elliott Goldstein. I was born here in Atlanta. My father was a lawyer here and I went to law school at Yale and as he did, came back here with the same firm that he had been a part of. In 1940, they had a draft and their looks on that and I was a winner at a very low number. That's good for license plates but wasn't so good for the draft. In any event, I decided to get my year over with and get back to practicing law. Well I had somebody from the Judge Advocate's office come over and ask me if I'd go with them, I could stay in Atlanta and he'd give me sergeant stripes, I wouldn't have to work but half-a-day and I said no. I'm Jewish and this is my war and I don't want to do that. So, I got my wish. I went in, I joined the National Guard as a Private and I had had some military training and quickly got promoted to sergeant. Our armory burned down and we were delayed on me being inducted. So instead of being inducted in '41, we didn't get inducted until '42. By that time we'd been converted – this was the 122nd Infantry – we'd been converted to the 179th Field Artillery. So we had a quick course in general military things and when we were inducted, I, along with several others were commissioned to Second Lieutenant. That was in 1941. Kyle: What month? Goldstein: February, February '41. So we went down to Camp Blanding, Florida, six officers sleeping in a bramsell tent and no quarters allowance and it was pretty good. I did have one person who taught me how to be an officer, we had to maneuver and Albert Tuggle who was a lawyer here that I knew, who later became a General, and later was in the Treasury Department and a very, very wonderful man. We were having a maneuver and he told me I want to have a battery up to next position. I want wire communications to everything at the time they go up. So I started telling him how difficult it was to do that and to do this and he said, “Elliott, I don't want to know how hard it is. If I knew how hard it is, I wouldn't tell you to do it. I just want you to do it.” And I said, “Yes sir.” And that was the best lesson I got in the army - one of the best. So, from that time on I never said anything was too hard. You just do it. Then I went on to, after the War broke after the Pearl Harbor, I got ordered out. That was before Pearl Harbor I got ordered out to Ft. Sill to take the battery officer's course. I finished that and came back, and when I came back, the War was on and shortly I was ordered out to Ft. Sill as an instructor. Well I got there and gave them my same song and dance and I didn't want to be there, that I wanted to be in combat and didn't want to teach. So they said, “Fine, wait 6 months and if you're not happy we'll let you go wherever you want to go.” And I was so foolish, so idealistic; I didn't know that I was insulting everybody there. So I knew later, I knew they were going to get me. So anyway, 10 to 6 months I came in 6 months there, I had gone from a Brownville tent with 5 other lieutenants, to Officer Quarters between the Officer's Club is on one side and then there is this quarters on the other side, Paradise for the single lieutenant, and a West pointer and I shared quarters - He had a separate bedroom, I had a separate bedroom. We had a bath, a little kitchenette. We had a living room and you couldn't ask any better in the Army anywhere, cause this was regular Army. So at the end of my 6 months, I had made arrangements to go to Ft. Lewis, Washington with the Mountain Division.. So they sent me to Camp Forest, Tennessee with an Infantry Division. So they got even. I went to the 88th Division there and I did well. I had been promoted to 1st Lieutenant, got married. Then it was time to try to get us ready to go overseas. So that a lot of nighttime maneuvers, night and generally they would keep us all on the post and I'd come and see my wife and I'd have to go out and spend the night on the post. And while I was gone, some drunken sailor and soldier came to our apartment. My wife woke up, and he was at the foot of the bed striking matches and she started screaming. She ran out the apartment - it had originally had been a house. She ran up the stairs pounding on the door and they thought it was just another soldier's wife having a fight with her husband. They weren't paying any attention to her. So when I got back and she told me what had happened, I put her on the plane for Atlanta and put in for a transfer. So I transferred to the 106th Division which was in the process of being formed. And we went to Ft. Jackson, South Carolina and I served there and eventually we had our troops in good shape and they had some losses in the forests and they pulled people away from us. So we had to train them all over again. So they pull always a young man who had signed up for officer training out of college, so we got some really great men who really hadn't signed up for this sort of thing but, they were good soldiers. One of the things that impressed me, at the time I was giving a lecture, by that time I was a Captain. I was giving a lecture on what to expect when you're oversees and I could see they, their eyes were glazing over. I said, “How many of you think you're going overseas?” A few raised their hands. I said, “How many think you're going to get wounded or killed?” - nobody. Well it wasn't too long that they learned what life was really like. In any event, we eventually shipped out of New Bedford, Massachusetts and went over to England. We were in a British Camp and it was my first taste of dealing with the Brits. They was a nice village there. It was a regimental camp but we had some plumbing trouble and we got the camp maintenance men and they came and they pulled out a, what do you call it? Something to heat water? Pipes – Kyle: Torch? Goldstein: Torch. And they proceeded to make tea and I said, “Good God, we need the plumbing fixed and you're making tea. I don't see how in the world Hitler didn't just run right over you.” He said, “Governor, he never tried”. So, we went through that, we went overseas and we went over on ships, and combat loaded which meant we had all our trucks, all of our food and all of our ammunition, everything was on there. So the sailors got some of our soldiers who were supposed to be on guard drunk. They took away all of the food but we didn't know that. So they dumped us at Sherbourg, and off we went across France, We stopped to have dinner. We opened up our kitchen trucks – all gone. Those guys, by that that time, they were back in London and had sold it on the Black Market. So that was our introduction to the European theater. Kyle: What did you do upon landing? Goldstein: We went ashore in, this was in, September of 44 and we went straight across to our position and we went into position in the place of the 9th Division. And they had gone in and they had stopped just when they got to the Siegfried Line, and they had been going cross country cause it was summer time when they went over there. It was now winter. We were told to go in “0” for “0” and gun for gun which meant that we had to just go back where they were. Only trouble about that, all that going into position was that they were able to travel across the hills and you could drive after all that snow came in, you had to stay pretty much on the roads, so the Germans weren't thinking of coming the way they did before. They were to come down the roads. After we'd been there a few days, we – we realized that this was not a good place to be but they told us, “Well, the Germans are not coming this way. We expect them to come to the North”. So I was out on, by that time, well I had something happen to me before I got there. When I was in Ft. Jackson, our original Battalion Commander was a regular army guy who had been in Panama and obviously they'd just put him somewhere where he couldn't do any harm. Well he was a nincompoop and the Battalion was really going to Hell because we had no discipline, and a man named Kelly who was a lawyer was sent down there to inspect us. He got all the Officers together and said, “Now, if you got an order from your commanding officer, you didn't agree with it, you thought it was wrong, would you follow it?” And I said, “Oh shit, this is it”. In the Army, you don't say “no”, you just say, “yes sir”. And on the other hand, I knew that this was a bad situation so I said well I can take my chances, I said, “no”. I said, “Our Commander is a nice man, but I couldn't do it, because I don't think he's confident” So he gave me a piercing look and I said, “I've done it now”. But it turned out, he promoted me to Major and I became the Executive Officer of the Battalion. When we went overseas after we went up to this position, we looked around to see where we were. I was on sort of a little recognizance to see what was around us and went down the road to the next adjoining area and an armored car rolls up and a friend of mine from Atlanta, Dejohn Franklin, who is a Lieutenant in charge of it. So he stopped, he said, said, “We've got one little company here to cover 9 miles” and said “The only thing we can do if the Germans come through here is to record it and run. And that's why we have rubber tires.” So I went back and told Col. Kelly, “We're in tough shape.” He said, yeh, but they tell us not to worry. But we had forward observers, and they started telling us that also - things going on - on the other side. German trucks moving, guns moving, lights and artillery. We called G-3, and told them what was happening and he called up to, to Corp. and told them what was happening. They said, “Don't worry, that's just a subterfuge”. He said, “I told them, this is where the Germans have always come. In three different campaigns, they've come right through here and this isn't all that, and this is what they'll do.” They said, “You're just green, you haven't been in combat; you don't know what's going on.” So he said, “I'm sorry, I've done my best”. Well, it got worse. So, we'd hear more and more noise. Next morning, they started dropping shells into our area and none of it came anywhere near me but, so I took several men in a aiming circle and went out to do the shelling report. That's where you can take a look at where the shells came in and see the direction from which they came and if, you put your aiming circle and see the direction, that is, and then take another nearby and see where it came from and where those two lines intersect, is where the gun is that was shooting at you. So I got all that information, and bam, here's somebody shooting at us with rifles. I look up, here's some Germans in white uniforms, scouts, on skis, they're coming, their scouting to see what we're doing and so they started popping at us and we popped back at them. I went back and told our Battalion Commander, Paine Kelly, we got real troubles. Next thing I know, I put two guys with bazookas out on the road cause I figured the Germans would come down there and sure enough they did. So we had one gun that was pointed straight at the road so we had that. So, the Sergeant on that gun hit one of the armored cars or small tanks and the people got out and saw there was, on my left, a bazooka, pulled his bazooka up and he did a very foolish thing, he stood up and fired it and killed a man but he was a perfect target so he was dead. So I didn't have any other bazooka. So, I decided I'd go and get it. But it was fortunate for me, it was a very, very muddy period because we had all that snow. The trucks had gone through there and they dug deeper ruts getting through that snow into the mud. So, I go to pick up the bazooka and “BAM”, somebody dropped a shell short of me. So I crawled into the truck rut and I get in there and then I was looking at the arm of a guy that was killed and that's in my eyes and the bazooka. So then there's another shell hit on the other side, one was short and one was long. For the artillery, the way you get your target is you get a long and a short and then you split the difference and see where that is and if that's real close, we fire for effect. So I knew it was just a question of time before they got me. So all I could do was lie there in that truck rut and pray. Well they fired for effect and they were short and it was enough soft ground that the rounds went into the ground and exploded without hurting me. So I crawled back out of there with the bazooka, went back down to headquarters, went upstairs to help direct fire against the people who were attacking us and went down and that's when I got the famous line. One of my lieutenants, when I was Captain of “A” ballery, when we played football at Yale and he was a lawyer and a very great guy, a big man, and he was going out and was helping somebody who was shot in his battery and he got shot in the shoulder. So they put him on the gurney and they were getting ready to take him back to the Medic and I said, “How are you Ted?” and he said “Coach, they're playing too rough out there. I'm turning in my jock strap.” I said “Okay. Lots of luck.” I saw him later in the war and he said it got worse from there. We were told to move back to an open area further back so the infantry could withdraw towards us. Kelly went up to the infantry and I was supposed to go back and select the area where we were supposed to go. I went back and took a couple of scouts with me. They commenced going into position in that place and all of a sudden we get somebody coming flying down to see us. The Germans were right behind me. We better get out of here. So I told them to get out and I had … we had a message center at the end of the road, just before the river. And so I went down there to tell them we were moving because we had no communication where we were and they followed me. Most of them got through. We lost a few. When I tried to report in, there were no wires; they had all been cut. So we went over to the other side. We're on the other side, we had a few guns. We had three guns then and we were waiting to see what we were supposed to do next. We look over to our right, and we see where the Germans are setting fire to a barn just to get light in there. So, … Kyle: Actually, let me ask you to help set the stage. Tell me just a little bit about the number of guns, the type of guns, and other things. Goldstein: Well, the Battalion was a 105mm battalion. It had three batteries. Each battery has four guns. In addition to that, you have some machine guns just for protection and men have rifles. We also have a service battery that provides you with ammunition and food, and that sort of thing, and mechanics. And we had a headquarters battery that has fire center and surveyors and communications people. Each battery has its own communications people. So, that's generally the way that it's set up. Kyle: Then y'all were completely mechanized right? You had trucks and all the people? Goldstein: Right. Right. They are … in the 106th Division, there were three artillery battalions. There were 105mm guns. 105 howitzers actually, and there's one battalion of, my memory fails me. They had 150mm guns I believe. I've forgotten now. The commanding officer of that battalion, when the fighting started, pulled out and got his whole battalion across the bridge and out of there, which was a smart thing to do. We didn't do that, and Kelly went up to report to the infantry and eventually when they surrendered, he was forced to surrender. So that was … he was gone. We had three guns left when we came across the bridge. They had blown one set of guns and one set got marred down somewhere. So after we were in that position, and we were waiting for orders, they told us where to go and we started around. We started on down into Luxemburg, came back up and then I see a jeep coming along with a jeep in front of the jeep in back of the general, and then he said, “Who's in charge of these guns?” “I am, sir.” And he said get them off the road. And so I said push them in the ditch. I said, “Yes, sir.” He didn't know how important those guns were going to be to him. And we got them out and we eventually wound up at a crossroads of forest barracks. And Arthur Parker was senior to me. He was a S 3 but he was older than me. He was a veteran of the CCC. That was Civilian Conservation Corps. He graduated from Auburn. He was an engineer in training, but he was unfortunate enough to graduate into a depression and a lot of the things he had not experienced. So he had gone into the service just to make a living. So Arthur was senior and he was the commanding officer. We wound up at the final destination and we looked around and Arthur got word that we should set up there to protect the rear of what was left of the division. The division … artillery, which was ahead of us, I mean behind us now. So, we got a bulldozer there. We dug some holes for the guns. We had one going in one direction, and some pointing in three directions. And so then we waited, and soon enough we found out. We didn't know it but we were on the edge of the advance of the German army and there was a … first there was a ______. What they call a _____, I guess. Kyle: _____ sort of _____? Goldstein: Yeah. _____. And they were followed by the SSS. The SS. I gave you too many S's. Can I have some water? Kyle: Oh, yes, absolutely. Let me pause this and I'll run and get some. Goldstein: One of the things we did was we laid out some land mines across the road from the direction the Germans were coming. They'd be coming from the east. And we had holes dug for manholes on all the roads leading in there so that we had … and they had communication back. Well in the middle of the night, they called back and said I hear noise, and people are coming. And then they said there were some Germans and they're looking at the mines. So Captain Arthur Brown who was in my battery when he was a lieutenant and I taught him in field artillery school, said what I want you to do is stay low, come on back and when you're back, you stay out of the way. So he gave orders to just fire straight down in a row so a lot of Germans got killed right there. So that was a relief, but it was only temporary. We had a series of attacks and we had the men that were in that battery plus others that had joined us, and then we had … later we had some infantry that came in. I had made it a practice. We had two houses that we used for headquarters, and I would go from one to the other and go to each of the guns to be sure everything was alright. And that was … it was kind of hazardous. In any event, I just realized that what happens in combat is you get really exhilarated. The adrenaline starts to flow when the enemy starts getting close and you know what's going to happen. Everybody is urinating, and it's just a reflex, and they're ready. If you're not courageous, if you're going to hide, you're going to get killed. So anyway, either that or you just going to hide in a hole. And that happens to some people who will not fire a gun, they won't do anything. They're paralyzed. I felt the only way to keep everybody active was to show them that I wasn't worried. So I would get up in the day time and tell the Germans to go to hell. Crazy. But everybody else was thinking if he's not afraid, then I'm not afraid. They called one day when we had some Germans to try to slip in behind us down a ditch and they were all there when they told me _____ and we held guns on them. And I told them in German “Actung, cumenze” except I had a better voice than I do now and they all jumped up and held their hands up and the men were just amazed that they would react that way but I knew they would as Germans. So … Kyle: Were you fluent in German or had you just phrases? Goldstein: No, I just picked it up. This was one I needed to know. So, we had several engagements with the Germans and they kept getting more and more around us. They sent the 101st Airborne down there and they had some of their soldiers come down and I got them to do some patrolling for me to see what the Germans were doing. They didn't have any good news for me. And the combat … the glider infantry were there and they sent them down so they would be in the same place we were. So we had a lot of fire power there. But there was a lot of fire power that came up against us. Arthur Parker there, … we got orders when the 82nd, I mean the 82nd came in that we should pull out. And so that was fine. And Arthur did something that was very crazy. He held a conference between all of us, the infantry and us, out in the open where the Germans could see us in a circle. So, they dropped a mortar right in the middle of it. They hit him. He went to the hospital. It hit me. I went head over heels into a ditch and I had so much clothing on that it went through my jacket and the first layer of underwear and burned the second layer of underwear but never hit the skin. That was unfortunate for me because if I had gotten it, I would have gotten a purple heart, and I would have been home six months sooner. So, this was getting paid back for combat. So, anyway, eventually we had a couple of Germans come in with a white flag and tell us to surrender. We weren't going to do that, so … Kyle: At this point, since Parker got wounded, were you in command? Goldstein: Yeah. So I put him in the jeep and went up to the next command which was an armored force command. And I asked would somebody ride shotgun for me and they said no. They just said we never thought you'd get through there alive. Well anyway I got up there and told them what the situation was. I asked if the would send a Major back with me to come back to see what we could do and they could bring an Eagle in to help us. We started on the way back and shots were coming from straight up the road. So we got into the woods and walked as far as we could. In the woods, you could see this big battle going on. The Germans had not yet over run but, our people were escaping. So that was the end of our service at Parker's Crossroads. But we'd held the Germans up for three days and their whole strategy was to get through there and get up to the coast and cut off the supplies for the Americans. So those three days were extremely important. In my book, we have a quotation from a German general who was commanding that force and he said that since he'd been on the Russian front, he'd never been in any battle as bloody as the one at the Crossroads. So anyway, those of us who got out, went up and we were sent over to a chateau in the south of Brussels until we could get pulled together and eventually we … it was very good duty. We had some very fine people. Countess Giltremon and her daughter were there. The men they had fled because the Germans put them into a work camp. So, they were very nice to us and I wrote an “after action” report about what little we had and put together again and then we … I was sent over to the 592nd, the 150mm guns, and that was just … that was great duty. By that time, the Germans were being pushed back so we were going back to where we started. The snow was melting. We got along there and I came to one place where some of the infantry had surrendered and they were lying there, their corpses with their throat cut, their penises cut off and shoved in their mouth and our troops got so angry that I had a hard time keeping them from killing prisoners. So anyway we got home and then we got out to where it was just all of the, the infantry we were in support of the paratroopers and I had the great privilege of being, we had, I was the S3 for the 592nd and I was executive and I had command at night – Exec. commands artillery at night. The Battalion Commander commands it in the day time. Everything is divided up so everybody works 12 hours and is off 12 hours. We had, in support, we had the corp artillery which was 200mm guns. Big guns, lots of them and I had the, with my firing group, the guns we had left, I could command them all. So I had the command TOT at 6 a.m. on this point cause they want us, they want to attack right after that. So that was a great thrill to get all that fire power, it was on a cliff. We were to demolish the position. About ten minutes before that, I get a call calling off the barrage because the paratroopers climbed up the cliff and they've already captured them. The Germans pulled out. So, I didn't get my chance to do that but I got my chance to really do a lot of things in the artillery that I wasn't able to do before. So I had a good time, got a good report and the Battalion Commander was a West Pointer. He tried to talk me into staying in the Army. I asked him why would I do that. He said, “Well, it's a wonderful life”. He said, “I'm on the Army polo team. I get up in the morning, I go out and get on my horse and ride around and see how the troops are doing and then I come back and then I see ‘em at breakfast, see what's happening with the sergeants putting troops with the work at different places and then by noon I have my lunch and I go play polo.” He said, “I go to Florida in the winter, I go to California in the fall, I go to Europe in the summertime and play polo.” He said, “You go to be a multi-millionaire to live the way I do.” He said, “You ought to try it.” I said, “Only one problem, I can't play polo”. So that was the end of my Army career. I got out and went back and practiced law and that was the end of my career. I've got, I, there's a lot more details that I could put in this, they're all in a little book, that I wrote called On the Job Training and if you want to know more, it's all in there. Kyle: Actually, I've got just a few detailed questions I want to ask you. At the beginning, you said that you were Jewish, and it was your war. Would you mind elaborating on that just a little bit? Goldstein: Well, Hitler, was - what he was doing was murdering Jews and if you wanted to hit Hitler and if anybody had a reason to go after that administration had to be Jews and I wasn't married, at the time I went in, so it was logical for me to be one of the people, if anybody was going to take a bullet, it ought to be me. Kyle: Right. Speaking about being married and you said that you got married in 1942? Goldstein: Yes, in 42. Kyle: 42. Now, I know that the environment at that time is, was very different from what it is now. Tell me a little bit about the thoughts that you and your wife had knowing that you were about to go overseas to the war. But still decided to get married. Goldstein: Well we, I guess, we were like everybody else. We put it off and put if off and we decided instead of it was actually, over a year before I went overseas. I married in 42 and we actually went over in 44. So, we decided to do it. But I wanted to have children and she wouldn't do that. She didn't want to be left with babies. Kyle: You went in 41. So you were in service when Pearl Harbor was going on. Tell me about, tell me what you remember about that day and about your emotions and the emotions of your comrades. Goldstein: Well, I was at that time I was at Ft. Sill at the Battery Officer's school out there – the field artillery school there as a member of the cadre for the 106th and we were receiving additional training, and we had gone to a movie and had came back to the Officer's quarters and somebody said the Japs have bombed Pearl Harbor and we said Oh my goodness and we said a lot of other things. This is it. And sure enough, it was. Kyle: I'm trying to think of how to phrase this. When, during the war, when you were, as you said, that it was still early and Hitler and the Nazi Party and everything were killing Jews, by the tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, at the time, during the war, tell me how you felt about the Germans. Goldstein: I didn't care much for them. I didn't like them at all. They were arrogant. The ones, the SS were as arrogant as they could be and yet they were very cowardly when you got them in a corner. Kyle: Has your feelings about the Germans changed? Goldstein: Yeh, I've gotten a little better. Kyle: What about the -- Goldstein: I wouldn't go there for years though but we went there, Harriett and I went there. We had a painting done – an American artist who had lived in Germany and was a member of a number of German group of artists, and they had a, we lent them a picture we had to be used and they in turn lent it to a museum in Munich and we went over to Munich for that show and traveled around Germany. Kyle: Tell me about where you were when you heard the Bomb had been dropped and how you felt about it then. Goldstein: I was, after the war ended in Europe, I was sent in to reconstitute. I was given the job of reconstituting the – one of the infantry regiments – the 422nd and after, what I did was when they, they, I started off I had a cadre of 35 officers and about 200 men for the infantry regiment and they started shipping men to me. Some officers, 3-400 men every day. Every time they sent an officer, that ranked me, I would send him down to one of the battalion so every time somebody came through there that was a chef at a good restaurant in New York, I kept him for the officer's mess. We were in the middle of a section in France that's milk and honey, where all the butter comes from, all the great food, good wines, so I was living real well and I get a West Pointer shows up, Lieutenant Colonel and I said “goodbye”. He finally ranked me, I'm out. So I got out of there and went back and we constituted our Battalion and I was back as Executive Officer and I had a driver from Georgia who had been a bootlegger, and he would drive me along and the word came out that the bomb had been dropped and the Japanese had surrendered. So he said, “Well, I guess I ought to get a promotion, everybody ought to go up one, can I go up from Private to Private First Class”? I said, “I don't think so, but anyway it's a nice thought” but that was the only thing we had to say about it. Kyle: Just a … Goldstein: After that I went, I went with the Battalion up into Germany, and I was the Executive Officer. Parker was back. He was commanding it and I really had had enough. So, one of the partners in the law firm, Charlie Reid, he had been Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of Georgia and had gotten, he was a friend of Roosevelt's, he got a commission as a Lieutenant Colonel in the Judge Advocate's so he was up in Berlin running a property control division, and he sent for me to come up there and be his assistant. Charlie had become an alcoholic so he wasn't around very much so I was running things. I got my second good lesson up there. I had a lot of officers that had been assigned up there. At that time you couldn't go home until you had a certain number of points and they took more points for a major than it took for a private. Most majors had children. I didn't have any children. So, you got points for being overseas, points for how long you'd been in the Army, and points for decorations, but you got good points for children. I didn't have any so I was stuck there. And it was kind of interesting, I was used to telling people what to do and I was treating them the same way – the group of officers that were assigned to me. One day, the door opens, a man salutes me and in turn I say, “At ease.” He says, “I have something to tell you that you ought to know. I said, “What's that?” He says, “You're not as god damned smart as you think you are”. I said “That's a point well taken – thanks.” I never forgot it. The worse thing you can do is to show people how god dammed smart you are. So I carried that through my life all the way through – these are the 2 great things I got out of the Army. Anyway I got promoted to Lieutenant Colonel, came home, went back to practicing law and that was it. Kyle: One question, this is just for the record and you don't have to answer it all, if you don't want to. How do you and can you, or can one prepare themselves for combat? Goldstein: Well, the system we used was that you first have to know, just by reflex, all the things you're gonna have to do. You're gonna have to know how to shoot, how to throw a grenade, and how to react quickly. The second thing you have to do is to realize that the worst thing you can do is be afraid. So, you should never get yourself locked up in a basement somewhere. Because if you do, you will be so afraid of what's outside that you will never venture out. You have to get out. The ones who get hurt are not the cones in combat but the ones who are afraid and just stand still.. Kyle: What was the worse thing about combat? Goldstein: Well, the worse thing for me was the fact that I had to give orders that might result in somebody giving his life, and I had to do it. And that's the hardest thing for an officer. That's why a lot of officers don't like to be where the troops are. Kyle: One last question. What do you want future generations of this country to know and understand and remember about the sacrifices your generation made during the war? Goldstein: I don't really know because it was an entirely different situation that we had at that time. We didn't get into war unless Congress would back it and today we have a situation where the executive officers can declare war. The Presidents can declare war pretty much on their own so I don't know how to answer that. It's not a situation where you really have the same feeling we had. Everybody felt they were in a war for a purpose and when we won the war we felt we accomplished something and we helped all of our fellow citizens back home. But I feel sorry for these fellows having to go into these battles today where there is no great support and the President is careful to make certain that nobody has to make a sacrifice. When my wife was at home, she moved in with her parents. We had ration cards, tickets for food and for gasoline. She walked up to the street car, a couple of blocks. Went down to work at the center where they had women volunteers to show airplanes in the area where they were, and she was making a sacrifice, I was making a sacrifice, and everybody else was. Not everyone but most people were. Today that's not so. Nobody is sacrificing except those who give their lives and we don't have an awful lot of people come out of this war. People in the Reserves or the National Guard. They are really turned off and I don't know what I could say to them except you got yourself into it. Kyle: Is there anything we haven't covered or talked about? Goldstein: Well I think I have covered about as much as I should. Is that alright? Kyle: That's perfect. Thank you very much. Goldstein: You want me to fill in something?
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Extent:: 58:36
Original Collection:: Veterans History Project oral history recordings
Veterans History Project collection, MSS 1010, Kenan Research Center, Atlanta History Center
Holding Institution:: Atlanta History Center
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