The John Burrison Georgia Folklore Archive recordings contains unedited versions of all interviews. Some material may contain descriptions of violence, offensive language, or negative stereotypes reflecting the culture or language of a particular period or place. There are instances of racist language and description, particularly in regards to African Americans. These items are presented as part of the historical record. This project is a repository for the stories, accounts, and memories of those who chose to share their experiences for educational purposes. The viewpoints expressed in this project do not necessarily represent the viewpoints of the Atlanta History Center or any of its officers, agents, employees, or volunteers. The Atlanta History Center makes no warranty as to the accuracy or completeness of any information contained in the interviews and expressly disclaims any liability therefore. If you believe you are the copyright holder of any of the content published in this collection and do not wa
This interview starts with Bailiff reminiscing about her grandmother, Alice Cain, who lived in the Golden House. She knew how to brew tea from the herbs and roots she foraged in the woods, she was very intuitive, and he knew rituals to prevent bad luck, such as not sweeping after sundown. 7:32: Next, Bailiff describes attending school at a one-room schoolhouse in Buckhead, which later became part of Atlanta, Georgia, including the large class sizes and the teachers strictness. She shares her grandmothers memories of the Civil War and talks about how her family used lye to make soap. 14:35: Yancey asks Ruddell about her childhood growing up on a farm. Ruddell responds that they were guided by various signs when planting crops; for example, they planted corn during a full moon and killed hogs during a new moon. She details how they killed hogs, jokes about making balloons out of a hogs kidney, and details her mother's liver pudding recipe. 20:59: Next, Ruddell discusses traditional medicine, starting with how she was cured from thrash and bumps as a child. She then recites a remedy for anemia and says many folk cures have a science behind them, recalling her mother's remedy for baby colic. Lastly, she talks about when raw poke sallet, a wild plant, poisoned her brother. After reciting some common sayings and proverbs, she concludes by remembering how her mother could predict within a week if someone would become pregnant after she dreamed about a two-headed fish. 29:26: Back on the theme of her childhood, Ruddell explains that she worked on a cotton field with her sister and they would periodically need to leave school to finish their work. She says she tried to finish picking the cotton by Halloween and that they made taffy-like candy from the sorghum syrup while they worked. Lastly, she recalls ice cream parties and playing spin the bottle.
Alice Mae Cain Bailiff (1886-1988) was in Roswell, Georgia, and married Gideon Talley Bailiff (1886-1938) in 1906. Their son, Harry Alton Bailiff (1915-1981), enlisted in the United States Army in 1941. Mary Jo Rogers Ruddell Coulter (1922-2007) was born in Calhoun, Georgia to Ruel J. Rogers and Sarah Cordelia Rogers. In 1940 she married Edward Robert Ruddell, Sr. (1921-1967); they raised cattle in Morganton, Georgia, and had five children: Edward Robert Ruddell, Jr., Gary Michael Ruddell, Gregory Stephen Ruddell Sr., Cindy Ruddell Corona, and Wendy Ruddell Pettett. She earned a Woman of the Year award in 1952 for her volunteer work and helped establish Marietta's Cherokee Rose Garden Club. After Ruddell died, she worked for Coastal States Life Insurance in Marietta and bought a franchise for Watch It Made Candies. In 1970 she married William Jesse Coulter, Jr. (1918-1988) and became step-mother to Terri Coulter, Lynn Coulter Burdick, and Judy Coulter Dunning. Her home in Marietta was featured on the Garden Club Tour of Homes and she later moved to Atherton Place in 2000. No biographical information about Mr. Larson has been determined.
Gammy: Her home was in Roswell. Its a ole, its a historical place. Its the ole Golden home. Have you ever seen it? Aletha: No Gammy: Its a beautiful ole place. She lived there and she had large rooms, and her fire places were so big she had to burn the full cord wood in it. She would sit in front of the fire and she would tell us of things that happened, but uh uh. Well, one thing she kept sun time. She didnt pay any attention to anything except sun time. She set her clocks by the sun dial. No matter about the different kinds of time, that was her time. She had huge clocks, and she set the clocks according to the sun dial, ya know. Aletha: How did she determine it? Gammy: Well she had a dial in the yard and that was sun.. Shed watch that and they clocks just stayed right with it. (Laugh) Sun time somehow or other; that that was funny to us, but uh uh, honey, she went into the woods and shed find herbs. She knew everything that every root was good for and shed bring em home and dry em, and hang em in the back hall. And when uh people would call sometimes theyd send for her in the night, and shed take those things and she knew just where to go which bundle, what that was good for, just like a doctors medicine. Shed take some of that herb and go and uh make tea or somethin ya know uh and use it. Aletha: Do you remember the names of some of these different roots or herbs? Gammy: No, I didnt. No. And as she visited us shed go in the woods around us. My mother didnt use em. But shed go hunt em. Wed let her think that she would. And shed find, Oh, I found so and so. And the roots uh she knew the names of all of um, and they were really good. (Laugh). Aletha: Uh hum. Gammy: But uh, she wasnt so superstitious. Ya know, people back in those days had to go by signs and things. Theres just uh, well, she had intuition. She would say get up sometimes shed say well. Now, my sister lived with her that I talked with the other day. When she was young she had to go there and live, and uh she told me so many things. Uh, she said, well today Im gonna have chicken and dumplings, because Aunt Mags comin. And shed say how do ya know? She says I know shell come. They didnt have any way of callin ya four weeks shed come in and uh spend the day. And uh shed say cause Aunt Mags a comin today and uh shed come. And other times shed say, well, Id better kill an extri chicken today because her son was comin and uh and my that was my sisters father. And shed say, well, uh did he write ya, and shed say no, I just knowed that hes a comin, and he would come. And the day that she killed a extei chicken hed brought a guest with em and somebody up there on business. And she said, well, I knew you were comin so I cooked plenty. Aletha: What was your grandmothers name, her full name? Gammy: C-a-i-n. Cain. Un hun. But uh she uh just had, oh we could think of a lot of things. . . She was just left alone and she didnt have a child. Uh, a year after she married she was left alone. And uh, you know, the well some of the battles around werent too far away but sometimes uh they just send uh uh body home. You know somebody was killed, theyd just find um there and just bring em in like that you know if it was close enuff. So this uh she had a where she lived they had an ole cemetery out in front of her house across the road. She uz right there by herself. She kept seeing somethin white in that cemetery. And uh, shed watch it, shed say she couldnt sleep because evrytime shed look it would be movin. And uh then the next night shed watch for it; she could see it agin. It was kind of a distant place over there, ya know so this night she said well Im Im gonna find out, and she uh lighted her lantern, went by herself, cold, bad night way over in that cemetery and she used to make our flesh crawl up to tell about it when we were small, ya know. (Laugh). Ghosts- and when she got over there it was a little sheep and it had been staying over there, ya know. And she could just see it at night- the white shots. She found out later what it was. And after that she said, always find what youre afraid of because uh, look for it, go to it- and Ive thought about that so much. Aletha: Well, good. Gammy: Well, theres so many things she believed. Uh, you must not sweep after sundown. Aletha: Why was that? Gammy: Because it was bad luck. Cause itd bring you bad luck. (Laugh). Aletha: And wasnt there something else about putting something at the door to keep evil spirits of something away or something to that effect? Gammy: No, no I dont believe she ever mentioned anything like that? Aletha: Well, what about the house? Gammy: She heard crickets. Shed say theres crickets in the house, lets get em out. She sez I just cant go to bed with crickets in there because Im sure theys in the the back bedroom. She said dont bother em, leave um alone cause theyre tellin us somethin. And sure nuff the next day an ole woman that lived with her died. (Laugh). And if a bird got in the house that was a sign of death and she firmly believed those things, ya know. The school house was one-room and a one teacher, of course. And its right in the middle of where Buckhead is now. That was a the only school that they had. And uh they just had to find a teacher who would a come and teach maybe a few months and then shed leave and theyd have to hunt a nothern. Ya had to pay, ya know, theres no free school then. Aletha: About how many children did they have in one of these one-room? Gammy: They had uh about thirty. Imagine theres thirty of forty. Aletha: Was that first grade all the way up to the elementary school? Gammy: Un hun, a grown people with long dresses on- girls and boys and they all had to go into the same room. Aletha: Do you uh remember anything about the teachers being real strict, you know, to the kids? Gammy: O, yes, she wore a thimble on her finger and shed go around thumping em on the head, and that was a terrible thing, ya know. (She gestured with her finger as to how it was done). Aletha: Thatd hurt. Gammy: That thump you can imagine like rock hittin ya. But Id expect a lot of em needed it. She never did thump me. Aletha: Thats still standing today isnt it? Gammy: Yea, un hun and its still there. And my daddy was superintendent of the Sunday school and my mother played the organ and theres sevn, nine of us in the family. And we couldnt go in uh buggies cause there was so many we had to go in a wagon. And we couldnt leave Sunday school and go home because the wagon didnt go home. (Laugh) We had to stay, ya know. Go early and stay late. Aletha: You mean stay all day? Gammy: No, no wed get away about the usual time but that was a long time for us. But theres no way of leavin. . . In Roswell, the other grandmother, well she was alone too. And uh, she had some, her husband was in the army he was an officer and had some valuable papers and uh the uh northern soldiers came to her house huntin those papers. They knew he had em. And they came there for several times huntin for those papers. She was there alone and shed let em come in an look. Theyd search the house all over- They was nice to her, but they wanted those papers- some kin of a charter or somethin that he had and theyd want it. And uh where uh after the first time they didnt find it she took em out to the well, and she had a gourd hangin there to drink water out of that had long handle. Shed put those uh papers, shed rolled it up and put it up in that gourd handle just as far as she could put it out of sight and left em. And they came back two or three times still huntin those papers. And finally this uh man that came said well never bother you anymore. Now dont worry. Aletha: About the crops? Gammy: They destroyed everything. They had to put uh hide the cattle ya know and take um way off some place and hide um and uh keep em away from the house. And uh then uh they didnt even have salt. And they had to dig up the dirt in the smoke house, she told us about it, and boil that to get the salt out of the earth were the meat had been cured, ya know, and hanged there saltin, and the soil was saltin. You just dig it up and boil it to get that salty brine out of there. Aletha: Did yall use to make your own soap? Gammy: They made it; they made it. Aletha: Do you remember how they made it? Whatd they use? Gammy: Well, uh, they went by the moon too. (Laugh) The moon had to be just right when they took all those, the fat they killed the hogs, theyd take that fat and uh put it in a big kettle. Ive seen it. And uh then they made their own lye by taking the ashes, hickory ashes, from the fire and put it in this big box, and theyd pour, pour the water down in and theyd let it drip down where it would go through all the ashes. Itd come out just as strong and green and itd drip in a bucket. And that was what they made their soap- the lye- and thed take that and fat and mix together in big pots and boil em. And if the moon wasnt exactly right, it wouldnt make soap. After they boiled it that day all day long, theyd leave it and the next day theyd itd be just a solid mass of white in there and theyd cut it up in bars and lay it around and itd have to harden. Theyd take it weeks to harden ya know like soap- dry out and harden. --------------------------- Aletha: Mrs. Ruddell, you were raised on a farm as a child. Can you tell us a few of the signs of the time as far as planting crops, when it was best time of the year to do so? Mrs. Ruddell: Oh yes, this had always been uh something that has always been a lot of laughs at our house because I always made fun of my mother. In the Spring before one thing was put in the ground for the spring gardens we had to know where the signs were, because the beans had to be planted when the signs were in the arms. Because if you didnt plant thum when the signs were in the arms, the beans would only boom and bloom and grow long and tall and rank and youd have all vine and all bloom. But if you planted thum when the signs was in the arms, youd just have the most bountiful crop of beans. Now when it came time to plant the corn, the signs had to be in the full of the moon, because uh it would have ears low enuff to the ground so you could reach thum. But now, sorghum cane is a different thing. You planted the sorghum cane at the new moon. And the reason that you did this is so that the sogum cane would grow tall. As you know the taller the sorghum cane grew the more sorghum youd get from the cane when you gather it. Uh, another thing that was uh always interesting on the farm was when it came time to kill the hog. We didn't just go out and kill a hog cause it was cold weather like theyd, youd think most people would do, you had to kill the hog when the moon was new, on the new of the moon. And the reason you did this was so that it would shrink the meat would shrink and it would be firm. But if you killed the hog on the full of the moon, instead of when you were suppose to, all the meat would be soggy, anf it wouldnt cure out, and when you went to make your lard your lard would be all cracklins. And you know the cracklins is the leavins of the meat when your rendering it, and it would be puffy and and you would just have a lot of cracklins with all the lard in the cracklins. Uh, another thang that uh had to be done was when uh Dad went to get the stove wood cut for the ole wood stove. It had to be cut on the new of the moon because uh any other time it would be blue and soggy and it wouldn't burn. So these are uh some of the thangs that I remember from back in my childhood. Aletha: Do you remember how they made soap back on the farm when you were growing up? Mrs. Ruddell: Oh, uh when I was small uh maybe around ten or twelve uh we never bought soap uh to wash with. My mother always made it in the ole wash pot and thats where we also boiled the water to wash the clothes with. But uh wed start out this one day to be set aside to make to make the lye soap. And it was made witha mixture of lye and ashes. And we would start out witha low fire and somebody had to steer that all day long, so I usually had the job of steering that with a battlin stick. And so after it had boiled and the water all boiled down to uh a real soggy mixture. Well you pulled the fire away from the pot and uh let it set over night. And so the next morning itd be hardened and youd cut in witha big thick knife into uh what we would say would be uh about a four inch block. And uh then you would store this uh in a cool place, and uh each wash day youd go get one of these blocks of lye soap and youre a ready to go a washin. . . Another thing that uh had always been uh somethin that I look back on with smiles and I always been uh somethin that I look back on with smiles and I always tell the children when we kill hogs now about is the only time then when I had a balloon was when we killed a hog. And (Laugh) we used the kidneys to be blown up and uh we played ball with that thang. And uh my children during the years have always loved my mothers liver puddin. And uh so I have learned to make this from her recipe and uh what you put in this is uh, you take the hogs head and uh you take out the eyes and uh cut off the ears and uh clean the teeth. You dont take these teeth out of the head at all. You just wash um good and uh you split the head open and uh remove the brains and uh then you uh take- I cook it ina wash pot because this is how my mother did it and Im fortunate enough to have pot where I can cook it. So I take this head and put it in a pot. And uh take the liver and the feet and the uh lower section of the legs and cook all this together real slow with very little water, just enough water to keep it from stickin. And uh so you cook that real slow. It takes about a half a day to cook it or a little longer. And then when you get through cookin it you let it cool and take all the skin off and uh put it through uh a sausage sage and pepper and corn meal and flour to this uh mixture and put it back in the pot after youve strained your juices that was left in the bottom of the pot from the first cookin and you add this all together and put it over very low coals and steer it and ya steer it and it takes ya about two hours to cook it real slow. And so when it gets thick, well then you dip it up and let it set and then slice it and put it in your freezer as the modern day methods. And then you slice it when you get ready to cook it; you slice it and batter it down with uh cornmeal flour mixture and fry it real fast in hot grease, and its real good. You know youve heard all these uh people talk about midwives and people that doctor with herbs. Well, when I was little uh I always had the sore throat a whole lot. Im sure that its the same as what we call now the strep throat was what I was havin, but they called it the thrash. And uh so I vividly remember once when I had what Mama called the thrash. They go up to see this man, this ole man that lives way back in the uh behind this creek. And he says well have to take her out here to the crick and so they carried me out to the crick as they called it. And uh he got uh a leaf off of some vine, and I dont know what the vine was, but I had to stick my tongue out and he rubbed my uh tongue with this uh leaf and it did, it cured whatever it was I had, the thrash. And another time when I was little I had a knot that was on my hand and it was, it felt like a bone, but its what wed call now I imagine a stopped up lymph lobe. And uh so this growth would just get a little bit larger and a little bit larger all the time and uh so we heard about this woman that could take off uh knots and thangs. And uh so at that time to go ten miles in a car was a great long journey. So we get in the car one Sunday and we go to see this woman and so she rubs over it and uh she says that it would leave. And really it did, it left. An uh. Aletha: This is a result of her rubbin it? Mrs. Ruddell: As a result of rubbin it and saying some words. And uh so I always thought that was real funny. And so then when I got married my mother-in-law uh had a very wonderful perception, and she really did. She uh could uh, she just had uh uh forebrooding of or forewarning of a lot of thangs that would happen. And uh she said her reasoning for this uh was because that people who were born with veils on their face have this ability. An that uh they could always remove warts and remove uh knots an uh all this type thang. And uh she said that theres a verse from the Bible that she said when she removed a wart or removed uh a knot or a growth of this type. And that she could only tell one person this verse, and it had to be someone who was also born with a veil over their face. And uh what they called a veil was like if, I imagine where they had to remove the placenta from around the face of the baby when it was born But- Aletha: Did you ever find out what the verse was? Mrs. Ruddell: No, I didnt have this ability. (Laugh). Another remedy that uh was always given me during the Spring of the year uh to make you start feeling good in the Spring, you had at have this uh mixture of sogum surp and uh uh sulfur. And you take the sulfur and uh take about three tablespoons of sorghum surp and put enough sulfur in there to steer it up until its a pale yellow. And then you swallow this, and it really doesnt taste too bad. But uh I have found out uh in later years why this works and it really works. And the reason for it is cause its as so full of iron. And uh I uh have always been an anemic which of course I didnt know until uh I started havin children. But uh (Laugh) and then when I got out into civilization I found out that I was anemic. And the reason this sulfur and molasses helped me so much was because it did contain so much iron. So there is a lot uh to all the ole remedies. They have a basic reason behind all of it. Aletha: Do you know anything about curing baby colic? Mrs. Ruddell: Uh well you can boil uh catnip and make a tea from it, and give it to the baby. Aletha: Did your mother use this? Mrs. Ruddell: Oh yes, and also onions. She made onion poltice. If you had uh deep congestion in your uh lungs and vicks salve youd never be without vicks sav- vicks sav and watkins lemon mint. Aletha: What are they? Mrs. Ruddell: Well vicks sav is still on the market and I have used it with my children because it really is good. It will nstop ya when notion else will when you have a real bad cold. An you use today in uh uh vaporizers and thangs of this nature. Of course we didnt have vaporizers when we were small an uh what Mama would do shed rub ya with vicks sav on your chest an on yer back, and then she would put uh flannel cloths against your body and then shed take these flat irons that you ironed clothes with in those days, that you see a lot of times now as books ends. And shed get them real hot and wrap them up in cloths and put them on ya for a hot water bottle. Uh, there is a delicacy that uh I have prepared that we always had in the Spring of the year. An that is uh what we called poke salit, p-o-k-e salit, and its like turnip greens and it grows wild. But uh my brother almost lost his life because of poke salit. He was about six years ol and I was nine. An my mother had gathered poke salit to have for uh our first greens of the Spring. An so she had them in the kitchen, and he decided that hed eat some. He thought itd be like cabbage that you could eat raw. And he sprinkled some salt an pepper on it an ate it and he was just at deaths door for about twenty-four hours. An uh so its very poisonous to eat it before its cooked, but you pare boil it an then pour the water off an then you cook it like you would turnip greens. Aletha: Mrs. Ruddell, do you remember any ole sayings or proverbs like they use to tell? Mrs. Ruddell: Uh well hu this one I always enjoyed was uh- mile by mile lifes a trial; inch by inch lifes a cinch. An uh we had a neighbor that always said uh, when she was tired an worn out shed say, O, Ive got the wore-out drags. (Laugh) There use to be an old sayin too that if you were walkin an uh with a friend an he went on one side of the tree an you went on the other side of the tree, uh if you didnt turn around an go back on the same side that he was on, before night fall came youd be mad at each other. An uh you remember I told you about my mother -in-law havin extra-sensory perception. Uh one of the things that she did that I never knew it to fail. If she were to get up in the mornings and an tell about her dreams the night before-if she had dreamed about a two-headed fish, someone in the family would be pragnant. An uh this would always happen within a wekk wed hear of someone or a relative in the family who was pragnant. Aletha: Would you tell us now something of your background as you lived on the farm in Rasaca? Mrs. Ruddell: Well. Uh my father grew up cotton primarily. This was the cash crop an uh we would uh- I had an older sister and a younger brother, but uh my sister an myself were the ones that always had to help in the field. An we would get up before daylight uh durin the uh planting an gathering season. And uh we would all get in the wagon an go to the field an uh Mama would pack a lunch an we would go to the field an uh do what we would call hoeing cotton all day an just stop long enough to eat lunch. An uh then in the Fall uh school, we would start to school the first week in August an wed go a month to school. And then uh or until about the middle of September when cotton started opening an then wed be out of school a month to gather the cotton. An uh then uh if we didnt have it all gathered, usually we didnt have all the cotton gathered when school started agin. So wed go to school an if a lot of the cotton was in the fields, school would let out at noon time for us to go home an pick otton. An we always had to go home an uh if we didnt get out of it at noon time and put on our clothes an hurry to the fields to pick cotton in the afternoons after we get home until all the cotton was gathered. And uh usually we were finished by uh Halloween, was our, uh we tried our best to be finished by uh if uh we were not finished by Halloween, usually then we would boll the cotton. And thats uh pullin burr the botton boll an all off an puttin it in a sack. And then we would uh take it in the house at night an uh take the cotton out the burr, an wed have cotton pickin an uh so while uh part of em were in the room where the fire place was pickin cotton some of us would be in the kitchen making surp candy. And this is somethin that uh I doubt very few people know how to do anymore. And you take the sorghum surp an uh an ole black frying pan is what we always used- a large one and put the sogum surp in it with a little suga an start boiling it an uh on the stove steerin it. Ya have ta keep steerin if cause if ya dont itll boil over an you really will have a lovely mess. But you boil it til uh you can spin a thread uh from a spoon. You hold it up and let a little thread hang down and when it gets kind a hard at the end and really slowly running well, its ready. And so you take it off an pour it up an uh let it cool so you can handle it with you hands, and then you take it an stretch it an you go back an forth, back an forth with it an stretch it an uh you do this as long as your hands will let you. Now while your stretchin it youre rubbin your hands with butter so it wont stick to you. Aletha: Is this the same thing as tagged? Mrs. Ruddell: Its on the same principle, un hu. And then you roll it along in a string about uh an inch wide and put it on a piece of wax paper an let it harden an then you cut it up in little inch strips. Aletha: Can you tell us of some of the entertainment that you did back during those days? Mrs. Ruddell: Well, uh, the most enjoyable thangs that we did when I was a child was uh we always had uh ice cream parties an thats what ya called thum. An uh we had a gallon an a half ice cream freezer that you cranked by uh with the hands. And another family there in the community had a gallon an a half ice cream freezer so wed get the gallon an a half ice cream freezers together an uh make ice cream. An uh so youd have to make up at least three times to have enough for everyone to have all the ice cream theyd want. An somebodyd make a cake an uh wed have cake an ice cream. An uh another uh entertainment was uh community sings. Who ever had an organ or a piano, it was usually an organ that they had in the homes. I knew very few people who had pianos when I was growin up. Theyd uh all get together an uh sing an play the organ. An a this is one of the thangs that we have done, that my children have really enjoyed an I dont know of anyone else who had done it of my childrens age. An we call it settlement parties now. Aletha: What were some of the games that you played as young people? Mrs. Ruddell: When the young people had a party we always played spring the bottle, an you didnt kiss heavens forbid such a that as that, but uh youd go uh for a walk with whoever was spinning the bottle.
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Professor John Burrison founded the Atlanta Folklore Archive Project in 1967 at Georgia State University. He trained undergraduates and graduate students enrolled in his folklore curriculum to conduct oral history interviews. Students interviewed men, women, and children of various demographics in Georgia and across the southeast on crafts, storytelling, music, religion, rural life, and traditions.
As archivists, we acknowledge our role as stewards of information, which places us inaposition to choose how individuals and organizations are represented and described in our archives. We are not neutral, andbias isreflected in our descriptions, whichmay not convey the racist or offensive aspects of collection materialsaccurately.Archivists make mistakes and might use poor judgment.We often re-use language used by the former owners and creators, which provides context but also includes bias and prejudices of the time it was created.Additionally,our work to use reparative languagewhereLibrary of Congress subject termsareinaccurate and obsolete isongoing. Kenan Research Center welcomes feedback and questions regarding our archival descriptions. If you encounter harmful, offensive, or insensitive terminology or description please let us know by emailingreference@atlantahistorycenter.com. Your comments are essential to our work to create inclusive and thoughtful description.