Steve Leckar interview with Samuel W. Cruse

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If you believe you are the copyright holder of any of the content published in this collection and do not want it publicly available, please contact the Kenan Research Center at the Atlanta History Center at 404-814-4040 or reference@atlantahistorycenter.com. This recording starts with Samuel Cruse outlining his childhood in the Georgia cities of Villa Rica and Douglasville. Specifically, he talks about the type of music played at his church, Powell's Chapel Methodist Church, and explains what shape-note music is. Timestamp 3:20: Next, Cruse sings Ortonville, a song he found in a son book published by the Henson Music Company of Atlanta, Georgia. He says John Wesley, the Methodist clergyman, brought the song from England. Cruse then introduces F.L. Ellens song Hold to God's Unchanging Hand. He then describes a typical service at his Methodist church, which starts with the choir singing three or four songs, followed by the choir director singing a solo. Later, the minister collects money from the congregation, returns to his service, then concludes with announcements. Timestamp 8:10: Cruse then sings Hold to Gods Unchanging Hand, which he says can be found in all Christian song books and is a good closing song for services. Next Leckar asks Cruse to sing a song he does not know, so he asks to instead sing Amazing Grace, a song written by John Newton that became widely sung when his great grandfather, James Langston, immigrated from Scotland to Georgia. He sings two verses of Amazing Grace, which he says is about the Grace of God and that it, as well as many other hymns, are aimed at converting people to Methodism. He says that these hymns can be found across rural America. Timestamp 20:59: Cruse then sings: Guide Me Over O Great Jehovah, written by Thomas Hastings, from the songbook Upper Room Hymns; Blessed Be The Tie; Wonderful Words Of Life a song he heard at Peachtree Road Methodist Church; and There Shall Be Showers Of Blessing. For his last songs, Cruse sings Old Rugged Cross, written by Reverend George Bernard, which he says is mainly an Easter song that can be sung all year. Samuel W. Cruse (1947-2017) was born in Villa Rica, Georgia, to Warren King Cruse (1919-2001) and Vivian Louise Hembree Cruse (1924-1988). He attended Douglas County High School in Douglasville, Georgia, then graduated from Georgia State University in 1971 with a Bachelor's in Urban Studies/Affairs. He was a founding member of the Alpha Tau Omega Fraternity and was news editor of the Georgia State University Signal. Later he earned his Juris Doctorate at the Woodrow Wilson College of Law in 1980. From 1974 to 1982, he attended Georgia State University for his Master's in Educational Leadership and Administration. In 2001 he earned a Doctorate in Educational Leadership and Administration from Georgia Southern University. As an adjunct professor at many colleges and universities, he taught courses in Education, Sociology, Psychology, and Criminal Justice. He also had his own law practice, Samuel W. Cruse, P.C., for 21 years, beginning in 1993. Before then, he worked for the Georgia Bureau of Investigation, Trust Company Bank, the Department of Public Safety, and as a Court Administrator for the Blue Ridge, Georgia, District from 1977 to 1981. DIALOGUE WITH SAMUEL W. CRUSE by STEVE LECKAR for Dr. Burrison Georgia State College December 1, 1967 Social commentators and theologians alike have bewailed the mid-twentieth century as a time of moral decay and the "death of God," at least in the form of religion. If thii:s be true in urban areas, a flat contradletion exists among the people of the country side. Certainly they are no longer the rustic, peaceful folk idyllically 'fOrking in isolation. They are a,rare of the progress of technology, science, and society; and since the end of the last world war, their lives have been irrevocably changed. Yet in one thing they are still united--their religion. In the State of Georgia the country people have resisted change; they cling stub bornly to the early Baptist and Methodist religions. Essentially they still view Catholicism with suspicion, see people outside their church as sinners, adhere to fundamentalism, categorically accept Christ's diVinity, and see God as an omniscient power who desires that all people follOw a life of virtue; albeit such items as dancing, smoking, and movies are not shunned as before. Certain ly liquor has never presented any problems. The author is fortunate to have as a friend Mr. Samuel W. Cruse of Douglasville, Georgia, Mr. Cruse presents a variegated character--he is Scotch by ancestry, rural by birth and childhood, and thoroughly familiar with Atlanta by hint of his father's occupation and his home's proximity to the city. The writer has visited Mr. Cruse's family in Winston Township and has been shown firsthand glimpses of life-down-on-the-farm. His grandparents, living on an entirely self-sufficient farm, are leaders in the methodist Church in that area; and Sam has a position of youth director at a church outside of Commerce, Georgia. He is a humorous combination of ole-timey religion flavored with just a pinon of modern iconoclasm. The area OF Winston Township: -Douglasville is a dairy-based economy, with milk, eggs, etc. being shipped to Atlanta daily. It is also fertile for corn and truck-gardening. The people are not hostile to the tourists--they are off the Birmingham Highway. Yet the area still shows traces of an earlier era when it was just another whistle-stop, the railroad still runs regularly in the countryside. The Methodist. and Baptist. Churches are small but well cared for. The life of the community in no small way revolves around the the church, with its Sunday services, fellowship clubs, dinners, get-togethers, and feasts. I travelled Blacktop Road on a Sunday night after visiting Cruse's relatives; and when passing the portion of the road where the Baptist and Methodist Churches face each other, one has been treated to a "symphony of religious fervor." The Methodists in the rural areas like to use a type of music called 'shaped-note singing," which is merely regular music with the notes shaped for easy recognition and added accent. The following is a conversation with Sam Cruse regarding shaped-note singing. S. Cruse: Well, my name is Samuel Cruse, and I live in Atlanta, Georgia, now, but I used to live in Villa Rica, Georgia, and Im from Villa Rica originally. L: Are your kinfolk from there? C: Yes, my mother was born in Villa Rica, my father was born in Whitesburg, Georgia. L: Mr. Cruse, \'/hatwhat, uh, did your father do, does he do when you lived in Villa Rica, Georgia, what was their occupation, I mean, has the family always been merchants, farmers, or could you tell us? L: Well, my father did welding jobs on tractors and my mother worked in the school cafeteria. Um,... at present, where do you reside, Mr. Cruse? C: I live in Douglasville, but I come to Atlanta every day. L: Um, are you familiar with the type music known as shaped-note music? C: Yes, we use that at our church, Powell's Chapel Methodist Church, located at Villa Rica, Georgia, just a few miles out of the city limits.. we use that type of music all the time. L:Could you briefly tell us what kind of music that is, Mr. Cruse? C: Well it's the type of music commonly referred to as "old hynms". Its sed in the church, well it's been used ever since I can remember, and it's been used in a lot of churches in the community in, uh, rural areas like my own. L: Could you tell us, uh,... what exactly shape note music is, I mean, uh, just what is it composed of? C: Well, the only difference is in the shape of notes and usually it's just meant for a little more accent than the round notes. L: Mr. Cruse, would you... or could you be so kind as to give us some examples of this music? C: Well, I have a song here, "Ortonville" it's called. It's in one of the song books On published by Henson Music Company, Atlanta, Georgia. Here's how it goes: Body of Song See Index # 1 L: Thank you, Mr. Cruse, can you tell us something about the origin of this song? C: Well, "Ortonville" is a pretty old song. It's been used for well over a century now in the church. It comes down from the original hymnal that John Wesley brought over here in America and it was from his ideas in England. L: Mr. Cruse, do you have, uh, another selection we could use? C: Well, I've got one that's about the same. It's, uh, we use it, too. It's called "Hold to God's Unchanging Hand". Do you want me to sing it? L: Um, Mr. Cruse, could you tell us where it, uh,... could you give us some more background, information on the song? I mean, like possibly who wrote it, how old it is, how it has come down to us? C: Yes, F. L. Ellen was the one who wrote it and arranged it. He worked for the Methodist Church. Well, I guess it was at the end of the last century and, uh, back here in. that time, well, they had circuit riders and their purpose was to bring the good news to the churches that weren't able to have any ministers, and so they went across country with their Bible in hand and preached to the people that couldn't afford a regular preacher, and then this is still used in the Methodist Church in the form of circuits where one preacher covers three churches and that's how Powell's Chapel is. There's one minister, and he preaches to three churches, and he alternates Sundays because these churches in the outer areas can't afford a regular minister, and that's how this thing has been handed down, and I imagine it will be used till the end of the church because these areas never will become, well,.... so dense with people that they'll be able to afford a regular minister like the churches in the cities. L: Where in the service do you use, uh, such songs as "Ortonville", and this one, Mr. Cruse? C: Well, usually we start the service off with songs and we have about three or four and then the minister gets up and says a prayer, and then we have another song. The music, the choir director has a solo, if he sings one, and if he doesn't, it's a congregational song with the people standing, and then the minister takes an offering, and he goes into his sermon; after that he makes the announcements. L: Could you sing this one right here for Mr. Cruse? C: This is a very odd medley. It's, uh, got an odd beat to it, but I'll try. L: Thank you. Body of Song See Index #2 C: It's got three more verses, but I'll just sing that one for you. L: Mr. Cruse, uh, where is this song found? Is it generally known or do you only find it in one or two books? C: You usually find this song in all of the books. It IS a good song to close the service with. I forgot to tell you a while ago, we usually close the service with a song, the Invitational Hymn, and the minister gives an altar call, and, uh, it's used this way, and it's found in most books. This book is Bells of Salvation... this is from the Henson Music Company too, and it is number fifty-five in the book. I think theyre about one hundred thirty to one hundred forty songs, and, uh, well, I don't know many of these songs. Some are so old I've never heard them before, but these things like "Gathered Home", that type thing, "Precious Memories", well, we use them all the time. These songs are used a lot, and we still use them, but every once in a while I even come across one that I haven't heard before, and they've been using these songs pretty regular, like "Jesus's Only Way"and "A Prayer From Mother". L: Would you sing "Jesus's Only Way", Mr. Cruse? C: Well, I dont know that one, thats my problem. Ill try to find one I, I can sing for ya. Um, heres one. Its, um, I know everybody knows this song. This is, its a real great song. Its Amazing Grace. Its in our book, Bells of Salvation. L: Do you know anything about the origin of that, Mr. Cruse? C: Sure, uh, it was written by John Newton, and John Newton worked with Wesley way back there, and I don't know how long ago that was, but Ill try to sing some of this song for you. L: Mr. Cruse, um, didn't the Wesley brothers come to America about a century or two ago? C: Well, I dont know how much you know about the Methodist Church, but they came back early, it was back at the end, well it was about two centuries ago. No, no, no, I won't say that, it was less than two centuries ago, it was about a century and a half. Well, do you want me to sing this song? L: Yes, but may I ask you a question? Uh, Mr. Cruse, did a lot of these songs come into vogue... into being at the time of the great revivals at the beginning of the nineteenth century? C: Well, I dont know what you mean in vogue of in being, but, uh, it is well, do you, do you mean when did they start being used? L; Yes, ahah. C: Well, we started using them, I mean, I wont say "we" but my great grandfather was using them, and it was mostly by word of mouth, uh, my great grandfather was Scotch and he came over, and uh, he, he was living in Villa Rica, Georgia. His name was Langston, Mr.. James Langston, and, uh, he came over and he settled and was a farmer, and that, uh, well, he owned part of that land which is now my grandfather's, and he lives below Villa Rica, outside Villa Rica in the Flatrock Community, and uh, well, uh, do you want me to sing this song for yuh? L: Yes, please. Body of Song See Index #3 C: Uh, that's one verse of the song. Its got four of them. Well, Ill go ahead and sing the second one. Second Verse See Index #3 C: Main thing about these songs is that they all carry the same ideas in them, and it's mainly the Grace of God and how great, I mean how nice He is and everything that's great about him, and, uh, most of the songs are aimed at converting those that are lost, and, uh, I guess this is the main thing of all these songs really and all the hymns. L: In other words, Mr. Cruse, these songs which basically have a theme of converting the, shall we say, the non, the non-believers to the Methodist way would in all probability have come in, then, in the times of the great revivals in the hope of making or establishing a larger church. Am I not correct? C: Well, yes, it's not really a larger church, it's just in a community. There are those that are lost, I mean they never come to church; it's main thing, if you get 'em to church, get their foot in the door, then you can talk to them, and, ub, the main idea of these, uh, songs was and is to convert these people that well, they may believe in God or the ideas of the church, but they, uh, they don't attend church regularly and this type thing; but the main purpose is just for those that are lost to bring them in and for those who are Christians and backsliding, well, uh, Methodists don't use that term; the Baptists use it more than we do-- but it's mainly to bring those that backslide closer to the church. L: Will you find these songs used in Methodist Churches all over or will they generally be confined to one certain area of a country, Mr. Cruse? C: Why I think youll find this type song in any of the rural areas. It's different like in the Atlanta or city churches. It's, uh, there's such a difference that it's, uh, unbelievable. To try listening to the minister, you have to update yourself about a hundred or so years in the ideas of the church because you'll find that most of the rural churches have the Puritan idea. The really stern church people, the church first above everything, but it seems so different, not like in the city, because, uh, in the city seems like you go to church just to see what your neighbor has on, to see how they're dressed, and really I don't see any purpose in it. The rural churches are more Christian in that area. L: Then, Mr. Cruse, you feel that the ultimate truth in Christianity, that it's found among the people themselves, and people like me, or even you, assuming you'd lived in the city and you'd never been exposed to this type living are actually just lost and wandering? I I mean, do you feel then that, uh, the basic elements of Christianity are only going to be found in the rural churches? C: Well, I think that if the rural churches die you never going to have, youre never going to have the church that was the main idea of John Wesley. It was his plan, and his ideas to, uh, have the church stern, it went back to the Puritan ideas that were when Wesley lived; but in the city churches it loses it's meaning and all the ideas that Wesley, Wesley dreamed of in his starting of the church. Is there anything else I can do for you? L: Yes, Mr. Cruse. Do you have another song you could possibly sing for us if I wouldn't be imposing on you? C: Well, I don't, I don't like to sing I can't sing very well. L: Well, Mr. Cruse, you've been, you know, doing a pretty good job. Would you consent, really, to doing about two more please? C: Well, if you want me to, I will. Uh, I'll try, try another one. This is out of, we have three books, three song books in our church, mainly. This one is Upper Room Hymns, and uh, it, well, uh, it, well, uh, we have another song book, it's called Favorite Songs and Hymns, but I'll sing out of this Upper Room. It's "Guide Me Over Great Jehovah". It's by Thomas Hastings. Body of Sone; See Index #4 Here's another song that we usually close with, like on a night service where we don't have an invitational hymn. It's called "Blessed Be The Tie". L: Do you have any idea of, uh, the age of this song, Mr. Cruse? C: No, I sure don't, uh; they don't have the dates of these songs. Usually just the ones I've heard of, I've heard the most. I know this one is old too, but Ill try to sing it for you. Body of Song See Indox #5 L: Thank you, Mr. Cruse. C: Well, Ive got one here that may not sound so strange to you. I know its sung, uh, well, when I went over to Peachtree Road Methodist Church. Its, well, its really a big church, I must say that for it. Its a really big church. But, uh, this song Ive heard before, they sang it. Its called Wonderful Words of Life. Body of Song See Index #6 L: Thank you very much, Mr. Cruse. May I ask you a question? These songs all seem to be dedicated solely to the religious aspect. Are there any songs that tell of the people of the life of the people, anything like in shaped-note religious people or are they concerned only with heavenly subjects? C: Well, not really. It's just mainly these songs just try to convert the people, those that are lost in sin and that's the main purpose of them, that's all they really carry over. "There Shall Be Showers of Blessings. It's, uh, it's a shower of love. I'll show you how that goes. It's in the Same book as the last one. It's number forty-three. Body of Song See Index #7 L: Thank you very much, Mr. Cruse.Its called that Old Rugged Cross. Do you use that any? C: Yeah, well, you know it's mainly an Easter song. We sing it, well, you know, the year 'round. Mainly, I mean, we don't just sing it at Easter. It goes kinda like this. Well, it was I'll tell you something about it--it was Rev. George Bernard was the one who wrote the song, and this song is fairly old. Goes kinda like this. Oh, it's got, it's written in flats. Got two flats. I took some peanner and, uh, I know well, I can tell you that the song is written in. It's six-eight time. I'm not sure what the six and the eight are for, but I know what four-four time is. Body of Song See Index #8 L: Thank you very much, Mr. Cruse. C: Thank you. A PDF transcript exists for this recording. Please contact an archivist for access. Professor John Burrison founded the Atlanta Folklore Archive Project in 1967 at Georgia State University. He trained undergraduates and graduate students enrolled in his folklore curriculum to conduct oral history interviews. Students interviewed men, women, and children of various demographics in Georgia and across the southeast on crafts, storytelling, music, religion, rural life, and traditions. 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