Ronnie Gilbert interview with Horace Polk, Alice Polk, Sammy Sadler, and Irene McMeen (part two)

The John Burrison Georgia Folklore Archive recordings contains unedited versions of all interviews. Some material may contain descriptions of violence, offensive language, or negative stereotypes reflecting the culture or language of a particular period or place. There are instances of racist language and description, particularly in regards to African Americans. These items are presented as part of the historical record. This project is a repository for the stories, accounts, and memories of those who chose to share their experiences for educational purposes. The viewpoints expressed in this project do not necessarily represent the viewpoints of the Atlanta History Center or any of its officers, agents, employees, or volunteers. The Atlanta History Center makes no warranty as to the accuracy or completeness of any information contained in the interviews and expressly disclaims any liability therefore. If you believe you are the copyright holder of any of the content published in this collection and do not want it publicly available, please contact the Kenan Research Center at the Atlanta History Center at 404-814-4040 or reference@atlantahistorycenter.com. This is the second of a three-part recording that contains two interviews. In the first interview, Sadler discusses planting potatoes and corn in relation to the moons location. He then talks about astrology, his subconscious, and having the sixth sense. Sadler says that the planets locations influence how much a switch (from a tree) is bent after it is hit against a rock. McMeen tells a story in which she wakes up after a restless night thinking of Laura Robinsons son, Dick; later that day, she found out he had drowned. Sadler says that dreams are caused by the subconscious and sometimes come true. As an example, he says he had a dream about his brothers whole life, and it unfolded exactly like the dream. Alice Polk says she has had many dreams but does not remember them. In the second interview, Sadler reminisces about his grandfather and retells stories about bears and how an old sow would get into his cornfield. Sadler talks about turtles and superstitions and about Davy Croketts bear hunting. He then describes Buffalo Bills adventurous life and attending a Buffalo Bill Show in Clarksville as a boy. Switching topics, Sadler talks about World War, Vicksburg, and his grandfather fighting in the Civil War. Tom Dooley is briefly mentioned. Sadler repeats a tale about trying to beat the devil. Next, he talks about witching (referring to women) and the Bell Witch in Robertson County, Tennessee, during Andrew Jacksons day. At the end of the interview, Sadler says he is not scared of haints (ghosts) but shares stories about them. Horace Moore Polk, Jr. (18971984) was born to Horace Moore Polk (18521925) and Mary Louise Polk (18721901). He was great-great nephew of President James K. Polk. On 16 February 1942, he enlisted to serve in World War II. He worked as a dairyman and as an unpaid farm laborer for his family. Polk lived in Spring Hill, Tennessee. Alice Ophelia Polk (18991975) was Horaces sister and worked as a music teacher and lived in Spring Hill, Tennessee. Irene McMeen (18881972) was born to William Andrew Caudle Sr. (18491911) and Minerva Jane Caudle (ne King) (18581929). She married James Frank McMeen (18891926), they had two children, James C. (1916?) and William F. (1915?), and worked and lived on a farm. Edwin H. Mitchell (1904?) was a mining stenographer and a boarder in McMeen's home. Biographical information about the other interviewees has not been determined. Predictions; Trenches; Germans; Planting times -/{- (Laughter) Alice Polk: Wus' ta' goose neck rocka? Irene McMeen: Nah. No, it's-it's very much like ah my rocker of Popa's rocker there at home. Alice Polk: Oh , sure 'nuff. Irene McMeen: Yeas, it is. I've been trying to beat 'er out of it; she won't let me have it. Alice Polk: Uh-huh--oh. Go'take it back wi' ya'? Nancy: Yeah. Put it in the livin' room-rock away. Alice:Polk: Uh-uh-uh. Irene McMeen: She's like 'er grandma- she likes to rock (Slight Laughter) ITlike a rocka myself. Alice Polk: Urn-huh. Sammy Sadler: What's this over here do? Alice Polk: That's go---- Horace Polk: (Interrupting) That's-'at's his bait. (Laugl)ter) Irene McMeen: (Speaking Louder) That-that takes in what you're sayin', I reckin- Horace Polk: Like you'se fishin' over yonder. Irene McMeen: If you like me--he put that thing in front of me last night-I did't know what in the world~yself Sammy Sadler: You mean that uh--puts do,.n everything we say? - 5- Alice Polk: Yes .. sir Ronnie: How about telling me a tale right quick? Sammy Sadler: 1--1 better shut up. (Laughter) Nancy: Nobody'll know who it is, so what's the difference? Alice Polk: Heh-heh-heh. Nancy: Just two people. Irene McMeen: He wants some kinda---he wants to know if I believed in ghosts and all such stuff as that last night. ~Well, I don't believe in ghosts myself--but I-I believe in--the moon has Something to do with uh planting uh leaves and corn and things like that. I-I really believe that Sammy Sadler: Yeah,--I do--I go by it. Irene McMeen: I go by it myself and uh---- Alice Polk: Urn, I was gain' to bring this over---Yonder tis--I see it. I see it. I see it. I see it. Sat still, Mr. Sadler. Sat right still. (Gets up and walks across the room to get ~~ox of candy, then sits back down and passes the box around.) Horace Polk: (At the same time as Alice.) Well, somethin' in this sign bus'ness, too. Irene McMeen: Yeah, I think so" too, Horace--Whole lot in it. Sammy Sadler: Talking 'bout ghosts-- I got up early one morning and uh 'fore day and uh had to make a fire and had to go out in the yard to get Some wood uh from the wood pile and it's just as dark as pitch-- and I hadn't lit the lantern--which we didn't have electricity then--and I's comin' back to the house with a load a' wood and Mother says--uh-sittin' in'the other roomshe says, "Come in here quick!" Says, "There's a halnt in here and hets in the stove." (Laughter) -(0 - I said ,,,,11 if he's in the stove, it must be a haiht. ( Laughter) Well, I came back in and lit the~ampand "rent in there and a dog had gone in the house and he's standin' there by the heater and waggin' his tail hittin' the side of the stove- with his tail. Alice Polk: ( same time as Mr. Sadler) Hittin' the side of the stove. ( Laughter ) Sannny Sadler: That "ruz the haint. {' Laughter ) , Irene McMeen: That's- that's about what most of 'em do- huh? Sammy Sad ler: Yeah- that's about th----- Allen Polk: There's always somethmng. Alice P6lk: Some thin ' . Irene McMeet:>: I know uh when we were livin' up here on the hill- when ,.e first ,vent back up there - Jim passed away. The boys ,;ere both little and uh- I heard a noise out on the front porch- yo~knowright there you never heard such knocknin' and goin' on,You know, and I-I,<uz scared - and so I thought well I wuz gonna' be braveI'm go see what that thing is - so I got - the flashlight on and an ole' cat had stuck his head in a salmon can and here he wuz--( Laughing) ( Laughter ) Irene McMeen: That was another haint ( Laughter ) Yes sir , he was r;allyreally------- Horace Polk: Like the night Frank Jones died - I got scared up there on that hi I L: Irene McMeen: Who's that - you did? Horace Polk: I,sure did Irene McMeen: When's that? (7. :: .~. ~.,; :.: .. 'J- -~ .~... ~ ~ t, Horace Po1k: i~en we 'uz sittin' up there and if you remember it was ~~_ . co-old - winds blowin~ Alice Polk: The night Mr. Frank Jones died. Horace Polk: Frank Jones. Irene McMeen: Yeah Horace Polk: Yeah, we had the ,"i ndov cracked a bou t that much and this cat had- I don't know whether it was from a roof or what- he went zer-r-r-rt do,vn that screen. Irene McMeen: I remember when ole' Preacher Darnell's wife died in Thomson Station - ~hey had a window up- you know it was hot and they had the window up- that was before they had so much embalming'g6i~'~~ on and uh- they just had ~time fightin' the cats out of the window. They'~o jump up in there as fast as you'd I knock 'em out. Alice Polk: Oh! Miss Irene! Irene McMeen: Yes sir, (Laughs) I sat up there that night. Sammy Sadler: Was it somebody----- Irene McMeen: Don't tell me I would"H;;: afraid of them cats - I i",as-., Sammy Sadler: Was it somebody dead? Irene McMeen: Yeah, urn-huh - Mrs. DarneI4"as. Sammy Sadler: Lt ve- heard they'll do that Irene McMeen; They will do it too ,Mr. Sadler. Allen Polk: \<hy don't you pass it around, Alice? Irene McMeen; That's a fact. Ronnie: \<hat is that? Irene McMeen: Huh? Ronnie: \<hat is thl),t? Irene McMeen: \<hat Vlls that? Ronnie: \<hat did you say? Irene McHeen: I said it was a fact. ( Laughter) Ronnie: I mean I-I didn't'hear'what you said. \;hat did you say? Irene McHeen: Told about the cats. Ronnie: Coming around when people are dead? Irene McMeen: Sure they. will! You'd~ have to fight"em out.Tpey used t~ didn't embalm people like they do now. I don't imagine.it be as bad now since they embalm people. Horace Polk: I heard-I heard Tyre Hotland say that he sat up with somebody out there about Port Royal and they'didn't know it but a cat got up there and got under the sheet-- and ate part of the nose off. Irene McHeen: ~ I heard uh Bob Fleming--ya'll never did know Bob Fleming--this ~ is some of Mr. Short's fOlk--ya'll have never heard of him-(kind of laughing when speaking)- Bob Fleming was sittin' up with SOme corpse one night and he and some other fellow_and this is when they lay them out on a cooling board and everybody"s sittin' up This corpse just raised up -- just as nice. (Makes rising motion with her arms ,') Laid back down-, (Makes l ower i ng motion wi th her arms.) -,,-- Sammy Sadler: I remember when----- Irene McMeen: ----gas, you know, gas was escaping and boy! (Laughing) they left there. Alice Polk: Can't blame 'em--I ,rould too! Irene McMeen: Thank ya, t1a'm. (Gets a pece of candy from Alice.) Sammy Sadler: I remember one morning I went in the kitchen to make a fire in the cup stove and it ,ouz one of these big ranges. I heard a noise in the stove and uh- I couldn't imagine what it was. Made kind of a scratching noise and uh-I took the lid off the stove and was holClin' it up and it was dark back in there and I peeped down in there and I could see two ,vhite -- two shiny eyes Alice Polk: Oh--- Sammy Sadler: (Laughing) -- and I said Lawdy Mercy! (Laughter) And I went and got the flashlight and shined it in there and it was a little j ole' .~scre"ch 0'.'1. (Laughter) He'd come down the flute and got in there by the oven. ,_. Horace Polk: t1y grandmother had one of those uh old stoves that let down in the front, you know, to cook and so uh my mother left it--Ieft it down that night and went in there the next morning to build a fire and just shut the oven up: Mama built a fire in there and they heard the terri blest racket in ~here ,ohen it got hot ---- a blame cat had got back there (Laughter) -- it 'bout cooked him. Irene McMeen: Cooking cat;-huh? Alice Polk: (Laughing) Yeah--a-heh. Sammy Sadler: See~s like the fella that uh working on a job and --carpenter, I believe, and a t1exican ,rorked with him and uh they'd eat their dinner to~ether--had to carry their lunch and everyday the Mexican had chicken and he gave the fella a piece of chicken and that went on several days and one day the f e l l a asked him, "Where'ya~ get t In ' all these chickens?"--and he said, "Well, they come around the house at night and 1 shoot 'em." He says, "They go meow?" (Laughter) Horace Polk: Bet he didn't have any more to eat. Sammy Sadler: --------- Sittin' there eat in' cat everyday. Alice Polk: (Offers candy to Sammy Sadler) Have another one. Sammy Sadler: This is good tasting peppermint. Irene. McMeen: This is good candy. Sammy Sadler: It's good. Alice Polk: Ya'll, Miss Jane Austin said uh- one of her granddaughters who went to college--somewhere--at Purdue--t",nt to Purdue. And uh so she said uh she sent her one of these boxes of King Leo and she ..-rote back to her and said uh--"Grandmother, please send me anol!her box--I got one stick." (Laughter) Said, "These girls up here had never seen an'// King Leo--never heard of it." And 1 thooght King Leo--t"'ll, everybody knew about King Leo. Irene McMeen: They just didn't know what it was in that tin box. Alice Polk: No,--said they'd never heard of King Leo. Have some. Horace Polk: I'd thought it been So old---- Irene McMeen: Well, 1 imagine --well, that, too.' Horace Pollk: Even Georgia. Nancy: (Laughing) Even Georgia. Allen Polk: Said those girls wanted another box Irene Mc~leen: Sell it out here in Spring Hill. -. -:L1- Alice Polk: I don't think you can b~y it in Spring Hill Ronnie: Ya'll know anything about the Belle Witch? Allen Polk: No, just what I've read. I don!t know, I don't know too much about it. I never did believe in 'em anyway so--- Horace Polk: (Sarcastically meaning some women) There are alot of witches about. (Laughter) Sammy Sadler: Is that your microphone right there? How far will that pick up a sound? ' Ronnie: (Nods yes) Anything just about. Sammy Sadler: I've noticed in uh public buildings--some of them you can hear the speaker speak plain and in another building it's hard to understand him. It uh--something about the building that uh duttin',' carry Alice Polk: Acoustics--duttin' quite carry. Sammy Sadler: Acoustics duttin' carry the voice. I've heard that uh that Mormon Temple out at uh Salt Lake City is uh a tremendous building. Alice Polk: They say you can hear a pin drop. Sammy Sadler: They say you can hear a whisper or a pin drop in it. Alice Polk: I've always heard that. Allen Polk: This old barn thing up here where they have the Grand Old Opry is the same way, I think--they claim that. Sammy Sadler: Well, you take out of doors that uh some days a sound will carry plainer than others. Irene McMeen and Alice Polk: Oh yeah! Sammy Sadler: Now this morning this early train that Come through here-horn seemed like it was right out there in the back yard and then -12- other times it sounds like----- Irene McMeen: Yeah. Sounds way off. Well----- Alice Polk: ;oIell, that's a sign it'sgo rain. Sammy Sadler and Irene McMeen: (Mumbling in the background) Ronnie: What is that? Alice:Polk: Huh? Ronnie: What's- a sign it's go rain? Alice Polk: Well, uh when you hear a train go by and it's just real loud. The noise is just----tre atmosphere is so heavy. Sammy Sadler: Now you don't uh notice that difference half as much as in an airplane as you do in a 'train. Did ya' ever notice that? Alice Polk: Well, I hadn't thought about it, but uh------ Sammy Sadler: Well, in a airplane you never notice that difference a'tall. Alice Polk: Yes suh'--- Sammy Sadler: Just looks like it has to be atrailin' on the ~round. Alice Polk: Yes suh'. Sammy 'Sadler: Oh---- Alice Polk: Well, I hadn't thought about that, Irene McMeen; I hadn't either, Alice Polk: Urn-huh. Allen Polk: If it's a-- if it1s a jet--they don't stay around long enough to hear 1.em why, they t re gone 'tvhen you hear 'em. Alice Polk: Miss Irene, I couldn't help but be amused at Miss Mary Nell the other day up there at the airport, you know, she just put her hands up over her ears ( Puts her hands up over her ears and shakes her head) when a jet would Come in. She didn't like it. Irene Mc~leen: She stay all night with ya' last night? Al ice Polk: Nah! Nah, she went to~ the birthday party and never did Come back. Irene McMeen: I thought she wouldn't. Horace Polk: Thank Godl Irene 11cl1een: Huh? Horace Polk: Thank God! (Laughter) Nancy: t~at's the matter, Horace? Horace Polk: She's one of these spoiled brats. Alice Polk: Uh-huh. Celia had a birthday party yesterday. Sammy Sadler: I better be headin' towards home. (Gets out of chair and stands to go) Alice Polk: Here----- Horace Polk: What's your hurry? Alice Polk: I got to pay ya' for ya' apples. Nancy: ., You gonna tell Some tales? Ronnie: Sit down here. Alice Polk: Yeah! -1.4- Ronnie: Sit back down there. Sannny Sadler: I better be gettin' on home. Ronnie: Tell me a tale or txco. Sannny Sadler: Do what? Nancy~ Know Some riddles? Ronnie: (At the same as Nancy) Tell me a tale. Sannny Sadler: Do how? Ronnie: A tale. Sannny Sadler: Oh! Ronnie: A story. Alice Polk: A story he says. Ronnie: Dar (Irene McMeen). ask him that riddle you asked me last night and.i s ee if he knows it. Ask him. Irene McMeen: I don't know what it ,vuz now. Alice Polk: How much did those apples run to? Sannny Sadler: Two dollars. Irene McMeen: (At the same time as Alice) Mr. Sadler's heard that ole' thing all his life. Sannny Sadler: You needn't pay it though. Alice Polk: Yes, I am. -16- Ronnie: Well, sit down t.here-c-we l l , sit--ask him and see if he knous . Irene McMeen: He ",ants to kno", 'is, Mr. Sadler. Sammy Sadler: I ",ouldn't pay for 'ern until I eat 'urn up. Okay? Alice Polk: Suh? ~ Irene McMeen: He 1;.;rants to know this: Wh~t's ",hite-white as milk and milk it ain't; Green as grass and grass it ain~t; And red as blood and blood it ain't; And black as ink and ink it ain't? Sammy Sadler: (Laughs) Irene McMeen: He ",ants to know ",hat it is. Sammy Sadler: (Laughing) I don't kno", Irene McMeen: Well, I thought you had heard that all your life---- it's a blackberry. Sammy Sad'ler ; Blackberry? Alice Polk: What's 'at note? Irene ~lcMeenl White as milk and milk it ain't -- that's the bloom, and then get green and then red and then black. I heard that all my life. Alice Polk: I'd never heard of it. Irene McMeen: I thought certainly Mr. Sadler heard that. Sammy Sadler: No'mm I don't believe I have. Alice Polk: (At the same time that Mr. Sadler speaks) Have you got another dollar? (Speaking to Horace) Sammy Sadler: I never was very good on riddles. (Laughs) l . __ .. _ , r've got two one's. Naw t it ain't either. Irene McMeen: Well, it's a few things I made up. Alice Polk: Have you got change for a five dollar bill? (Speaking to Horace) Horace Polk: You're a rasberry man. (Speaking to Mr. Sadler) (Laughter) Allen Polk: (SpeaKing to Alice) You haven't got it in the sack? Alice Polk: Nope: Sammy Sadler: I've heard the one about the blackberry jj----~ Horace Polk: (Spea~ing tp Alice) Sammy Sadler: Bein' green when it was--naw, bein' red. Alice Polk; ~Peaking to Horace) Give me one one-- one one-- I've got one. Sammy Sadler: Bein' red when it's green. Irene McMeen: Uh-huh. Sammy Sadler: Ac~d uh bein' ripe when it's black Some way or 'nuther. Irene McMeen: Yeah. Sammy Sadler: T've'Cfcogotten just exactly how it went , Alice Polk: (Speaking to Mr. Sadler) You'll have to get it from me and him, too. Sarmny Sadler: Aw ya' needn't bother 'bout payin' me.---You eat 'em up. Alice Polk: Well--- (Laughter) Sammy Sadler: I-uh--- -1.'1- Alice Polk: I might. Irene McMeen: You got very many apples, Mr. SaQler? Alice Polk: I might not catch you. Sammy Sadler: I had two trees to bloom-- that were the only two that bloomed. Uh they used to come to Nashville in two horse wagons and peaailiing apples and uh he had a forked stick tied to the side 6 the bed. Alice Polk: Sit down and tell uS about it. ( Sammy SaEller: ,,~~.wi!'t>:apples~stuckconthe. etia,'ufi>aughter) I. ~;h, bu.c,\<. down) Irene McMelim: Iiwarita"know Ul-jrouchave"'myt.more apples to sell. (More Laughter) Sammy Sadler: No, Lbbzought; her the last bushel. I just had the two trees. Well, they had the forked stick on the side and stuck the apples on it--- that was the-- Alice Polk: Advertisement. Sammy Sadler: ----the sign, you know, well, uh he stopped there across the street from my house one day and a woman, come out .there with about nine children and uh they's all around the apples, you know, lookin' at 'em. And she aSKed the man if they'd keep and he say, "Yeah, I reckin' they'will if you don't eat 'em up." (Laughter) Course you know a bushel of apples wouldn't last long. Alice Polk: With nine chill'uns? Sammy Sadler: With nine children. Irene NcHeen: What are these apples--wine sap? Alice Polk: Naw, naw, Sammy Sadler: Naw, they're lectar leaf. Irene McMeen: Some good ones, -l'i'- Alice Polk: They're mighty pretty Irene HcMeen: They're some mighty nice ones. Sammy Sadler: They're good fall apples. Irene Mc!oleen: Uh-huh. Sammy Sadler: Now-some-some years they'll ripe in the middle of September-depending on the weather. Irene HcMeen: Uh-huh. Sammy Sadler: And uh they're a heap better when they ripen late. Irene McMeen: Yeah! Sammy Sadler: They've got kind of a twang to 'em. Ha-ha. They're a heap better. Horace Polk: Make good cider wouldn't they? Sammy Sadler: Oh, My--- Alice Polk: (Laughs) Irene McMeen: Do you ever make cider? Sammy Sadler: Oh yes! Allen Polk: He-he brought us Some here. Sammy Sadler: They sold a cider mill and alot of that other and I intended to buy it. Got away before I knew about---- Allen Polk: (Talking at the same time inc the backgroun~ ,.hile Sammy~s talli:ing) Sammy Sadler: I got- I'm gonna get me a cider's mill before another year . Irene McMeen: You didn't make any this year? Sammy Sadler: No'rnrn. Irene McHeen: I'd like to have Some good cider-- I like cider. Ronnie: Urn-huh. Sammie Sadler: Uh- I got to cannin' it, you can uh--it's-it's not alway~~ as good as fresh, but it's good in the winter time Irene McMeen: Uh-huh. Sammy Sadler: You JUS' put ito-it's very easy to can--just put it in a dishpan and heat it-just barely enough to let a wisp of that steam rise off the pan. Then you put that up in a jar that's been sterilized and ----I've got some there that:s two or three years' old that's in jars right now. Irene McMeen: I see. Sammy Sadler: ----and you take the lid off of it and let it uh the air get to it a few days and it'll go to fermenting and first thing you know it's as good as it ever was. Allen Polk: Is it as good as that rapberry wine? Sammy Sadler: Just about. (Laughter) Alice Polk: IVhat is that tale? I missed that tale. You told that and I was at the teleppone. Sammy., S1i(l,ler: Well, I tried to make Some by the blackberry recipe-- and I-I couldn't drink it --it was just terrible. (Alice laughs) These-fellas that had been down around drinkin' hard ,;hiskey --they say it's fine. (Laughter) They wanted to buy it-- I tell 1e~,,"Itts cider six years old!" Say, tlI'll give you a good-good price for it." I say, "Naw' I ain't go sell it." (Laughter) I may get snake bit some winter. (Laughter) Irene McMeen: We stopped out here and got some cider at th'~s uh -store here- it wouldn't what I'd call good cider. Alice Polk: No. Irene McMeen: I like good cider, after it gets a few days old--I think it's good. Sammy Sadler: About three days old. Irene McMeen: Yes, it's good then. Allen Polk: I want a little bite to it. Irene McMeen: Well, it won't take long for it to get that bite-you call it. (Laughs) Alice Polk: Sure don't Sammy Sadler: My brother went out with a boy in the country one day and four or five miles from to,,,, and uh fella had a barrel of hard cider and yo~you can't drink too much of that. (Laughter) Irene McMeen: You sure can't .. Alice Polk: You better not! (Laughing) Sammy Sadler: Well, he had a long straw--he jus' stick it in the barrel and drink what you want-you want of it-- Well, you can't see how much you drink. (Laughter) One of the boys got dead drunk. (Laughs while speaking then joined in by others) Horace Po l k t : You know-you know, when they had all this whiskey-- Tennessee went dry all over the country'i-and they had it stored up at Greenbriar? Sammy Sadler: Yeah. Horace' Polk: You know, thay had those barrels right alongside the wall clean on up to the ceiling--them fellas along there- high as they -21- could reach and they take a--abore--bore through there and let that whiskey out (Laughs) all them barrels wuz empty. Sannny Sadler: Yeah, Well, I was um- I read of a whiskey warehouse up in Kentucky--they -somebody bored a hole through the wa~~ and uh they bored a hole through the barrel and siphered it out. (Laughter) Alice Polk: That's the way they did our bank over here, you know, not long ago. Irene McMeen: Did they ever find out who broke in that bank? Alice Polk: I think they knew but- it was just--just mushed up. Irene McMeen: Must have been some of them up~te-ups in 9p-Spring Hill. Horace Polk: I doubt that. I sure it was dago--don't push it, you know. The law---- Irene McMeen: Naw, they got their money anyway. Horace Polk: The law's the crookedest thing we got now. Irene McMeen: Well,. I think that's wrong. I think they ought to try to find out who does those things. Alice Polk: I think, I think they will finally~said it was do,>U from at the orphanage. Horace Polk: Aw-naw! (Shakes Head) Alice Polk: Well, that's what they said. Allen Polk; They wouldn't do anything like that. Horace Polk: Naw' ! Alice Polk: Well, it was somebody local. Horace Polk: I don't believe that. -22- Alice Polk: 'Cause they went down at that Tomlin9 you know, and got the-the torch and soforth. Horace Polk: I betcha' it was those fellas that was in here that time paint in' these roofs. Irene Nct-leen: Could've been. Horace Polk: Aw, I don't know where they come from--North Carolina or South Carolina-- North Carolina, I believe. Irene McMeen: Didn't he come from Georgia? (Glances at Ronnie with a joking expression) Ronnie: Umm-- I know he didn't. (Slight Laughter) Horace Polk: (Adding more to the joke) Right close--right close to Georgia. (Laughter) Alice Polk: I think they raise good people from Georgia. Ronnie: If you'll tell me Some good tales, I'll go back to Georgia, (Laughter) Horace Polk: Do you live in Atlanta? (Looking at Ronnie) Ronnie: Yes, sir. Sammy Sadler: It's dangerous now for a person to keep money around his house of any amount. Horace Polk: I don't have any. Allen Polk: You better had 'cause they'll knock ya' in the head if they don't find some, Sammy Sadler: Well, a several years ago was a man that lived do,vn in Chattanooga that had a wall safe and he had a several thousand dollars in it. And two men came from Oklahoma and robbed him. Alice Polk: Good grac ious! - 23- Sammy Sadler: And had they got '.JOrd he had it---but they--they knev he had it or they wouldn'ta corne that far. But how 'at word got there they never did know. Alice Polk: Well, you know, that ole t woman do"m here on Snow Creek was killed, you know, last year, you know, two men went the~and just robbed her and killed her. Sammy Sadler: Did they get any money? Alice Polk: Yes sir, they--well, they didn't know exactly what they did get. Sammy Sadler: I see. Irene Mc~1een: I think found -- said they found Some money. Seems like, didn't they? Al ice Polk: Well, I think---- Horace Polk: I think they got scared--- Allen Polk: They got scared though. Alice Polk: They got scared, I think, and left, you know. Allen Polk: They found several thousand dollars in the house--after it Has allover. Alice Polk: Yeah. Irene HcMeen: They found that after it is over with--didn't they? Horace Polk: It was always strange to me-- Joe Hargrove always carried a big role 0' money on him-- he gambled and all and he talked about it and showed it to people-and somebody-or it's a wonder somebody hadn't a' knocked him in the head. Irene HcMeen: It's the truth. He's lucky he got by, wudn't he? - 2{- Horace Polk: He always bragged about it . Sammy Sadler: Looks like he 'uz pretty apt to get robbed--chances are he will. Irene l~cMeen: Urn-huh. Horace Polk: Well, if they ever rob me they get the worst disappointment. Irene McMeen: You and me both. (Light Laughter) Ronnie: IVhat do you know about the Belle Witch? Allen Polk: Nothing--Nothing much, as I say, I don't peJieve so I don't pay any attention to 'em--,,,hat they write. remember too much of it anyway. in 'ern and I don't Horace Polk: It 'uz in that magazine section. Allen Polk: I've seen it written up about it a dozen and one times about different things. Horace Polk: About two years ago. Alice Polk: I 'uz gon' say they Some 0' -- may.be sump'n in those magaz me.vsecc Ions I got up yonder. Allen Polk: (At the same time as Alice) I always believe it 'uz like yo' tale ,vu~---Ifhink it is a dog's tale hittin'--hittin' the stove. Sammy Sadler: Well, they've been--they've kidnapped one--two--two business men lately in Nashville. Al ice Polk: Have they---- Sammy Sadler: Broke in the store and opened up the safe. Alice Polk: Um-huh-- jus' opened up the safe ---------------------~--------~~~---------------------- Sammy Sadler: 'At's gettin' purtty-purtty bad. Alice Polk: I say tis. Horace Polk: Well, they wanted all this industry to come South and do everything they can to induce 'ern to come here~- ~~atluz it bring? Those whops and dagos. Alice Polk: We didn't have any of' that til' all this came in here. :r Horace Polk: And another" thing--- Irene McMeen: Plenty of 'em now. Horace Polk: --The law won't do anything to 'em-now they got larger~-no capital punishffient--they won't send anybody to the electric chair for killing anybody anymore. Sammy Sadler: Naw, they'll sentence--- Horace Polk: They-they not afraid to come--they'll give 'em ninety-nine years--set 'em loose in about ten. Irene Mcl1een: l'At's right. Horace Polk: --and go out and kill somebody else. Sammy Sadler: Yeah- they'll give a man twenty years--'ell he won't stay there hardly two years. Horace Polk: Won't get his cell warm. (Slight Laughter) If he had a chance o' settin l in that chair and knew it'uz comin'--they'd think before they did this devilment. Irene McMeen: That's right, ,,,,l~ they -- I donlt think they've ever turned them boys out that killed Russell Lee yet-- but that hadn't been but about five years. Horace Polk: Well, they'll get out. Alice Polk: They'll get out. -iJc- Irene Hcr-1een: Yeah,'they'll get out.in about five more an~vay. They-They put them in for--- Alice Polk: Ninety-nine years, didn't they? Irene '_McMeen: Yeah, ninetyMuine years. Horace Polk: Used to be when a fellow went in for ninety-nine years, that "uz it. Irene McMeen: Yeah! Horace Polk: Couldn't get a pardon, but now they done changed that. These hea'--all these women and man, these goody-goodie~ you know,-- they get around---"Naw, that's cruel, cruel." (Mimicking the women) They get the thing passed. Sammy Sadler: Well, I-I believe in capital punishment and I hear a lot 0' folks say they don't believe in it, but I want a' tell you a lot 0' those men before they ge~ executed--they get right with their Lord. \~lere-where as if they hadn't had to be punished, they nev~r would a' made the move toward that direction a'tall. Irene tl,cMeen: (Before Mr. Sadler finishes his sentence) They've executed-If they'd execute a few of 'em it 'uld put a stop to it. Alice Polk: Yes' am Horace Polk: How de' they make these jails now--Talk about how its got to be fixed--this, that, and the other---jus' too dirty-- I think they ought to have lice and rats (Laughter) and put 'em in there and feed 'em the nastiest grub. (Laughter) l~en a -- a boy went there the first time--got out he wouldn't waota'~ go> back. Irene McMeen: No, but they-they---- Horace Polk: But now most of 'em got better than they have at home. Irene McMeen: The crowd that goes there enjoys all 'at. They don't care, they'd just soon be there as an~vhere else. They-they don't have any principles anyway. -2'1- Allen Polk: Radios and they'll have televisions in 'em in a feH years. (Light Laughter) Nancy: Rockin' chairs and Hall to wall carpet.-- Horace Polk: Think they oughta' make it nasty. Alice Polk: Mr. Pugh said uh a man uh I mean called him one night 'f r om down in the jail there in Nashville and said that a man do,m there wanted to see 'im. You remember it---You've heard us talk about it, Mr. Pugh-thiS preacher Hho Has the~at Nashville. So he went there-- he didn't knoH who it Huz--but said, "I always made it a rule to go out in the brooks and kinda get his records, you know, before I "(\Tent to talk to 'im." --And uh Said, III ,vent on by there and found out this fella had been dOtvn ther~been in several times-you knotc , stealing, and drunk and a l l ;" So,he said he-he teen t on to to talk to him and said uh , "I'ell," says uh-"how come you're he r e ? ?" Say well, he jus' got in the wrong crowd and he juS' did this and he did that. Says, "Oh, Preacher! Get me Duta' of here." He says ,"Well, I can't do anything about it." Says, "I think you like it here you come back so often." (Laughter) Says, "I believe you like it." (Laughs) . Says, ~You gust can spare a f ew months." (Laughs) Sammy Sadler: Well, I must be goin~ (Starts getting up) Alice Polk: Oh! Don't hurry off, Mr. Sa_"~.- Sammy Sadler: Glad to have met you all. Alice Polk: Donft---stay with us .. Sammy Sadler: No, 1---- Al ice Polk: Tell uS some more tales. Sammy Sadler: I've b-b- I better be gettin' on home. Where did I leave my hat? (Laughing while he is looking around the room for his hat.) Alice Polk: I believe you left it out there in ---- (Confusion-- Everyone is speaking at the same time.) -28- Sammy Sadler: ~ My wife used to tell me~Your fo~tter Ain't a thing wrong wi th it." (Laughter) Alice Polk: Yeah, yeah--always works good. d always works good. (Laughs) Ronnie: Let me ask you somethingobefore---Do you pl--- do you do very much planting? Sammy Sadler: Do what? Ronnie: Planting--corn. Sammy Sadler: Planting? Ronnie: Urn-huh. Sammy Sadler: Oh, I just have a little patch. I don't----- Ronnie: Do you plant according to the moon or anything like that? Sammy Sadler: Yeah! Ronnie: Well, sit down ana tell'me about that. (Slight Laughter) Sarrnny Sadler: Well, if you plant at the--when the moon is wrong--you'll have a tall stalk and small ears. Ronnie: When is the moon wrong? Sammy Sadler: In the light. Alice Polk: You plant it on the light of the moon. Irene McMeen: (Speaking at the same time as Alice) I told ya' that last night. Sarrnny Sadler: Plant with the dark of the moon. NmJ t he r et s been alot of arguments as to what is the light and what's the dark of the moonThere never has been--don't many people know the difference, but you plant it on the decrease (Making motions) that is the moon is gettin' smaller. Now alot of the folks say you plant it on the dark of the moon and it duttin' shed at night, but that-at's wrong --you plant it on--when the moon is decreasing. Now if you plant your corn when the moon is increasing, you'll have a big stalk. Irene HcMeen: Have all stalk--not much corn. Horace.Polk: Well, how about it when you plant it and don't have no stalk or corn either-- like we had last year. Irene Mc~leen: Have dry weather, don't cha'? Sammy Sadler: : . , Ngbody ~nows when to plant corn--you can plant it early and hit the season and you can plant it late and hit a dry season. When Iluz able to farm and had two mules~ "I'd always plant two crops of corn. I had a mortgage on the place and at the end of the year I had to have Some kind of crop. (Laughs) That note don't fool wi' ya'. (Laughter) Had to have me crop there--so--,Yhen you plant two crops you hit one. Alice Polk: You'd hit one or another. Sammy Sadler: Yeah. Alice Polk: So, did you plant in the dark of the--of the moon and in the light of the moon, too? Sammy Sadler: Yeah. Now when that moon ---Listen,---- Horace Polk and Irene McMeen: (Talking softly in the Rackground) Sammy Sadler: Listen--get this straight-- when the moon is full, that's as large as it can get, and you plant your corn after the full moon. Now, don't pay no attention to----- END OF TAPE: ALlCE POLK"S FARM /11 SIDE #2 ,TAl'" i 10-22-66 THE FOLLOWING IS THE CONTINUATION OF THE CONVERSATIONS AT ALICE POLK"S FAm~ TO BE FOUND ON: ALICE POLK'S FARM #2 SIDE il.1.. IfH'e It ? 10-22-66 Ronnie: What'd you tell while I was gone? Alice Polk: He was telling about plantin' potatoes. Ronnie: Alright, tell me about planting potatoes. Sammy Sadler: You can take a fence post and put the dirt--put ya' post in and put the dirt around the post and pack it just as tight as you can and then three, four,five "eeks after a few sun shiny days you go back by there and that dirt has shrunk away from that post-there's a small space betwe~n tern, while other times of the moon it:ci stay packed. Ronnie: Now, do you know what causes that? Sammy, Sadler: No, rrdon't. Wish I did. Alice Polk: Which-which is it? Hhen you plant in the dark of the moon or the light of the moon that makes it shrink? Sammy Sadler: ~ I couldn't--I couldn't tell ya'. I'va never experimented with it, but I've noticed it'll do that. Alice Polk: Uh-huh. Ronnie: l~at's that got to do with the planting your potatoesanythiIlg? Alice Polk: Yes. Sammy Sadler: You plant ya' potatoes opposite from corn. You see, 'taters are a underground crop and corn is a above groulld crop. Just plant the opposite when you plant corn. (Horace swinging door and making squeaking noise in background) Now you take uh------ -31- Alice Polk: Plant corn in the dark of the moon and potatoes in the light of the moon. Sammy Sadler: Now you take uh-- Well, now, we'll get into the subject of as~rology. Well, that's a not a science-it's a theony. (Horace still swinging the door in the background) They claim you're born at certain time the planets-get with the Sun and it will influence your 1He. All your 1He you' 11 bear a certain points by the time you were born and you take an' astrologer and he!ll wanta give ya' your life chart. He's got to know the day and the hour you were born. Now, I never did uh take much stock in that but here last year I discovered something that opened my eyes to it. I got to a experimentin' with a forked switch for about forty years. I just took it up as a hobby, and uh last year I madethe discovery that when a certai~ planet is in conjuQction with the mOQn~l or the sun or another planet, it'll influence that switch; for instance, you go out here in the yard with yo' switch--now it'll work for mineral as welt as water. Well, you go out here in the yard with yourswitch--out this WiY and they'll be some kind of mineral in thiscrock that!ll pull~this switch. Well, maybe tomorrow or next week you go out there and this rock won't make this switch bend a' tall. Ronnie: You think the roc~~l make the switch bend? Sammy Sadler: It will. And another time it won't-won't bend for it. Now here last June I was over here at the Middle Tennessee experimental station. We ~ruz hunt in' water and we found a large stream and the manager sent one of the men to the barn to get a sledge hammer and a stake to mark it. Hell, before we got back the switch quit turnin'. Just like you'd reach over there and push that button and turn that light on (Makes motion). So'.1,5ai<;\, "Well, men I'm sorry the switch has quit working. I'll have~ to go back in a week or two to finish th,s5 job. (Slightly laughing to himself) Ronnie: Hell, rcha t t da ' ya' do Hhen you \vork \vith this sw i t ch ? Sammy Sadler: What di' ya' say? Ronnie: What da' ya' do--l mean- hows it-tImean-- You just go out and do-do it like that? Sammy Sadler: Yeah-yeah. Ronnie: With no idea of what is there or anything? -3ZSammy Sadler: It-it's electricity--no doubt of that. Now, I've been out switching and had another man with me that could-- it'd work for him--it won't work for everybody, that is, at certain times. And this man--it'll beworking for me and it wouldn't work for him. (Laughs) And I've noticed that when these planets change, the switch changes with it. Now, I can't understand and tell ya' why it does it, but I've noticed it'll do it. Now, I'm studying that rIght now--it may take five or ten years ta'--( Slight laughter) Alice Polk: Work it out. Sammy Sadler: Jus' figure it out --yeah--it-it's a very deep subject and it'sit's a fascinating uh --for twenty years after I fooled with the switdh it worked that way {Points to his feet) or it would come back over your shoulder. Well, it quit 'dat--it just wor ked -: fo rxcar'd and uh I noticed anl i t em in the paper 'at some scientist made a statement that the moon, I mean the sun had reversed its magnetism--just changed completely. (Laughs to himself) Horace Polk: I don't see any difference in it. Sammy Sadler: Hhat ya' say? Horace Polk: I don't see no difference in the sun. (Laughs) Sammy Sadler: Well, you can't uh--you can't feel it with your natural senses, but 'ta you might say when you worked a forked switch you're using-you're makin' use of a sixth sense. Now, let's put that another way_ ltla mean the same thing .. You have a conscious mind and a sub-conscious, don't 'cha? Well, the .switch is the medium of the bridge the tur'---You can't~uh'know what your subJco~ious is thinking;for instance, did yaW ever have a premonition? Did ya' ever have one in your life? Alright, your sub1conscious--your sub-conscious mind was acting--- Irene HcHeen: Yeah, I believe that, too. Alice Polk: I do. too. Sammy Sadler: I've had one in my--- Irene McMeen: Yeah, I do. I believe in premonition-- I've had it. Sarmny Sadler: You see-- the sub-conscious knows it, but your conscious mind don't know it and it's just certain times that the sub-conscious mind can get through. Irene McMeen: I remember when this uh- when Laura Robinson's boy got drowned over here in this lake. I was down at --in Augusta, Georgia,at this child's father-- and somehow or 'nother everytime ,I'd rise I'd think of him some way or another--through the night--when I got up the next morn; I said, "Caudle, I'm go' hear of some bad luck-uh- bad news because I - I had a restless night and I just thought about up here all n i ght?". 'Arid i',t,owaSn't--well, before he got his--" Oh, Mama, the very idea of such a thing." Before he got off to work, I had a note from at Zurina Howard telling me that Dick had got drowned. Sarmny Sadler: Hell, I had the same experience ah-- one Sunday night I "ent to bed about nine o:clock and I didn't sleep a wink all night. I knew somthin' had happened, but I didn't know what it was. So, the next mornin' I went out to the mailbox and got the paper and there on the front page was my niece's picture and she ,,,as killed in an airplane in Alabama Sunday mornin' about twelve o'clock. Irene McMeen: Um-huh-o-oh,' I believe in them., Alice Polk: Yeah, ~do, too. Irene HcMeen: I sure do. Sarmny Sadler: H,,,o"did yo'--what influences disturbed your mind to that extent? Irene McMeen: That's right-- I've had several things like that. Horace Polk: Well, can you explain these dogs barkin', you know, before Mr. Sterling used to Come for those dogs? Irene McHeen: Yeah, Yeah. We used to have a old Greyhound that we kept up there of my brother's-- he race Greyhound's. Sammy Sadler: Yeah. Irene i1cMeen: And uh--that ole' dog--the night that he'd come, that dog would howl. He'd start howlin' 'fore dark,or by dark, and he'd howl and u~\ they'd Come in that very night. N9w, I don't know how they knew it, but everytime it happened that way Ronnie: Who1d Come in? Irene McMeen: Hy brother. Alice Polk: The man that o"med the dogs. Irene HcMeen: The man that orcned the dog. He kept this ole' dog for him and uh when they-they'd always came-come by here when they'd be goin' North and that aog would start to howlin'. Ronnie: Was that Hr.------ Irene McMeen: I always said, "Hell, I guess,. Sterlin' 11 be here tonight and he'd always come--sometime of the night. Ronnie: Is that the same Mr. Sterling you were talking about? (Horace nods his head yes) Well, let me ask ya' somethin', do you believe in dreams? Alice Polk: Sure. Sammy Sadler: Well, I'll tell ya'---- Alice Polk: Sure--(Laughs) Irene McHeen: Jus' now tald ya' he believed in 'em-- that on the other day. Ronnie: Hell, he was awake that night. Sammy Sadler: Hell, I'll tell ya' --don't every dream corne true, but ahyou can be influenced by dreams caused by your sub-conscious mind1cause dreams do come true. Ronnie: ~ave you ever had a dream Come true? Sammy Sadler: Yes. Ronnie: How many? Sammy Sadler: Well, not many came true Ronnie: Well, how about telling me about one or two of those. (Laughter) Nancy: Better sit do,,,,, Mr. Sadler, and start talki~g. Sammy Sadler: Uh-she talked about dogs barkin'. You can take the fiercest watch dog you ever see, to guard your place and there'll be a certain time when the moon is right--a str---that dog'll-- can be up there on your back porch and a stranger can Come in there and uh step over that dog and open the back door and go in-- that dog'll never lwtter a bark. Irene MCrieen: Well, I didn't know that. Alice Polk: I've heard 0' that. Sammy Sadler: Yes. Alice Polk: I've heard that Ronnie: Now, what causes that? Sammy Sadler: They say it's a certain time of the moon --Now, that-that has been experimented with and proved. Irene McNee'l!l: v.'hat cha.l.' call'. its ole' dog bit William this mornin'. Charles' ole' dog bit William this mornin'. Alice Polk: (In a high voice) You mean, Spike? Irene McNeen: I sadd, "\-lilliam, what'i1a ya' go'do?" I tried to get him to go take a shot, but he wouldn't do it. Sammy Sadler: Well, we had a neighbor once--had two good yard dogs and uh we went over to see 'em one night-jus' to sit and talk awhile. We knocked at the door and they let us in and sit do,,,, and the fella said uh, "\-Ihy didn't those dogs bark?" He said, "That's the first fime I ever knew 'em for anybody to get here and they didn't bark." (Laughs to himself) Ronnie: Well, then--really, have you ever had a dream come true:? Sammy Sadler: Yeah. Ronnie: Would you tell me about that? Sammy Sadler: Yeah. It was--it was when 1 was a child. It was about my brother. 1 saw his whole life in that dream and it was exactly like 1 dreamed it. Alice Polk: 1 do de-clarel Ronnie: You sa~ his whole life like it was? Sammy Sadler: Yeah. It turned out just exactly----- Irene t1cMeen: You go back horne and dream tonight. Sammy Sadler: 1 wouldn't- Ihvouldn't but five years oid ,>henI dreamed it. Ronnie: And wh-ah-what was-what was--I mean-- What'd you dream in that dream? Sammy Sadler: What'd ya' say? Ronnie: What'd you dream in that dream? Sammy Sadler: 1 didn't hear ya'! Ronnie: 1 said what did you dream? Sammy Sadler: Oh, 1 could see things he was doin' and how he was actin' and everythi~g connected. Ronnie: And he acted like--he acted just like the dream? Sammy Sadler: 1 wouldn't five years old and he died last winta'. And he lived his-his very life just the way that dream told. - 37- Ronnie: I'll be John BrO~1. Alice Pol k: Horace said------ Ronnie: Miss Alice, you eve~---you ever had any dreams? Al ice Polk: Oh, yeah! Had lots of 'em"but I don't remember~ 'em. (Laughter) Horace said---- Sammy Sadler: I've never-I've never told a per-a--livin' person what I saw in that dream, and I don't reckin' I ever will. Ronnie: You know, you're not go tell what you saw in that dream? Sammy Sadler: no, not go tell it. But it Come true right to the letter. here . here Alice Polk: Horace says he's dreamed there's a--there's a box buried d01<U in the yard somewhere. You'll have to bring your thing over and uh switch ito-find it . Sammy Sadler: My what? Alice Polk: He says there's a box of somethin' buried do~ here in the yard. He's dreamed it two or three times. Irene McMeen: Might be alot of money in it, Horace. Nancy: Let's go! (Laughter) Alice Polk: Get your-get your switch and Come over here, Mr. Sadler. Sammy Sadler: Got a shovel? (Laughter) Horace Polk: You goo-you go use a shovel? (Laughter) Sammy Sadler: Yeah. I'll use a shovel . Alice Polk: I've got a little trowel out yonder I dig flowers with--I'll help ya'. (Laughs) THE FOLLOWING TRk~SCRIPT IS OF T.~E VISIT WITH SAM}lY SADLER TO BE FOUND ON: SA~lY SADLER #1 SIDE f}2 T"I"" "" (? 10-23-66 Ronnie: l~a i tin' on you. Sammy Sadler: Ready to go is he? Nancy: Uh-huh. Ronnie: Do you-doyou know any tales that uh- that aren'~~ecessarilyyour grandfather's experiences that would- just something he told you? Sammy Sadler: Yeah-yeah I uz' just fixin"to get on to somethin' . Ronnie: Let me hear rem (Laughter) Sammy Sadler: Hell, he used to tell about an o l e ' s ow- got" in the cornfield. Well, now this - well, you don't- I won't say that it's connected, but he told it anyway like he knew it happened. They had5rail fence aroun' the cornfield and they'd get the ole' sow out, but they never could find out where she got in. Wouldn1 t be anything wrong with the fence and they couldn't imagine how she got in that cornfield.Well; they uh- had some of the boys take turns watchin' 'er and they came to find out was a large hollow tree lying flat on the ground and at the corner of the fence where the fence made a turn one- one end of this tree- the fence was just built over- it was a.'Very large hollerthis sow just comin' through that holler' tree. (Laughs) (Laughter) Well, they moved the fence a little bit so uh- the tree end of it wouldn't be in the cornfield and they still watchea the ole' sow ,and she came there and walked through the holler' tree as usualthought she'd end up in the cornfield- well, she come out the other side and she wouldn't in the cornfield. (Laughs) (Laughter) And she couldn't understand it. They said they watched her and she'd. even go through that tree backwards. (Laughter) Tryin to figure out how to get in that cornfield. ( Laughing while speaking) (Laughter) Well, we children ~~Z always uh after him to tell us a bear story. I "onder now uh why he didn't get out 0' patience with uS when we'd bore him so much,but he'd generally "ind up "ith one. He said the bears had a method of uh stand in' with their back to the tree and reachin' up high as he could and make a scratch on the tree. Have you ever heard that? Ronnie: No, sir, I haven't. . . Sammy Sadler: Wel~ I can verify that with printed history - they actually had this to happen and if they saw another bear's mark on the tree that was higher than they could scratch,they go back and not bother that territory- cause they kn ew the bear that stayed there was larger than they ,.as. . (Laughter) Ronnie: I never have heard that. Sammy Sadler: You haven It? Ronnie'! No, sir I haven't. Sammy Sadler: Well, uh he told it for the truth. He told about uh two fellas 'at went out squirrel huntin' and they came to a hollow tree and they had a little ole' baby cubs in there. They had a sack with 'em and they decided they'd put the cubs in the sack and take 'em home--s~ they climbed the tree and the tree was holler about thirty feet from the ground--they had to climb up it then come down on the inside. So, one of 'em went down in the tree with a sack. The other stayed up at the hole and while he was down there gettin' the cubs in ihe sack, one of 'em happened to squeal, you know. And here come the ole' Mother bear and she came up the tree and got to the hole, and went do\vn in the holeand this fella grabbed 'er by the tail. (Laughter) And the fella in there with the sack--all at once it got dark in the tree. He looked up -Jf2.- "Mike, ,.hat makes the hole so dark in here?" And Mike says, "Well, if this tail breaks you'll know what makes it so dark." (Laughter) Have ya' ever heard that one" Ronnie: No sir, I never have heard that one. Sammy Sadler: Well, uh they had quite an experience in those days. He told about 'is brother--was a young boy-oh, about11;n years of age--He chewed tobacco and they, the farmers ~p ther' on Duck River-it's Bedford Countythey caught uh caught a big turtle one day. This boy was holdin' 'em out that V1ay (Holds his armS in front of him as if he were holding something) in front of "im spittin' tobacco juice in 'is eyes (Laughs) and the turtle reached out and got his lip. (Laughter) And he said they had to cut that turtle's head off to get grip loose. Ronnie: Is tha--does tha--that--does that go along with the saying that if a turtle bites you he won't let go till it thunders . Sammy Sadler: l-lay be . Ronnie: Have you ever heard that? Sammy Sadler: Yeah-yeah, I heard dat way back yonder. They said they had to cut his-that turtles' head offlhe never would turn that grip-and that boy carried--carried that scar 'ere 'til he died. I don't know uh actually I've never had oneto bite me. I don't know, ,but that's just a saying that a turtle 'ill hold you 'til it thunders. Ronnie: You believe in that? Sammy Sadler: I don't know; I never have seen it. They uh-they're very tenacious. We had a-used to have a hog woller in our barn lot--mud'.hole where- 10" place in the field where water settled. We got a large mud turtle in there one day. We cut his head off "ith a butcher knife--just left gim layin' there and you know, ten days past before he quit movi n'", Ronnie: Gracious . Sammy Sadler: Ten days. Ronnie: Now what-da'-ya'--what-da'-ya! account for that? Sarmny Sadler: Well, they're a te- very tenacious to life, I'd call it. You think of anything livin' ten days without a head--course now he looked like he was dead, but you go up and punch 'im and he'd move a leg. Ronnie: Good gracious. Sarmny Sadler: They're very tenacious. He was a---. You wouldn't want war stories, I don't reckin t (Laughter) Ronnie: You got any more stories about the bears? Sarmny Sadler: Let's see-- Ronnie: Have you ever known anybody to fight a bear? Sarmny Sadler: No, never heard of it. I read of Davy Crockett's exploits, guess you have, too. Ronnie: Not all of 'em. Sammy Sadler: I used to have his book, but I lent it to a neighbor and it never has Come back. (Laughs) He lived in West Tennessee a while. (Speaking of Davy Crockett) That was regular bear country. In fact, he killed so many bears there-they claim it's a record. He broke the record of anything that ever happened. He said he was on a bear hunt one night; come up a cold blizzard. It'd been rainin'--couldn't make a fire-all the wood was wet and he got 'im a smooth poplar and climbed up and dO'ill the tree all night to keep from freezin'. (Laughter) By the way, I saw--I told that last night though 'bout the little , Indian boy climbin' that pole. Ronnie: You didn' t----- Sarmny Sadler: --at Buffalo Bill's show. He'd climb a greased pole and Come down head first. I told--Ibelieve I've told---- -'fif- Ronnie: No sir, you haven't told that. Sammy Sadler: That's before you got there. Did ya' ever see a Buffalo Bill--oh, that was back before your day. I saw it when I was a boy--I guess, it was about one hundred and eight at Clarksville and uh he had about one hundred Indians and about .twe l ve or fifteen buffalo, band of cowboys, big bunch of horses. They didn't have any top on the tent. See, they shot real bullets. Just the part up there where the audience sit was the top-the rest of it was open, 'cause they would've shot full of holes. And Buffalo Bill was a very large man--I 'speck he was every bit of -oh-he's over six feet and he's over two hundred and fifty--and there wouldn't an ounce of fat on 'im. His whiskers came dotvn to his belt and oh, he 'uz a fine lookon' man you couln't help but look at, and uh he had a wonderful show--of course, I tVUZ just a boy, but I'll nevernever forget it as long as I live. He rode a pure white horse-just as white a horse as I ever saw and he-he rode aroun a ring and the man walkin' in front of 'em with a basket 0' glass balls. He'd throw 1em up in the air and Buffalo Bill would bust 'em witha gun and he missed one--he missed one bulb. Now he-he didn't take aim. He shot right over the palm of his saddle-~he just hold. the gun up 'at way.(S~ows how it was done with his hand). Ronnie"; Good gracious! Sannny Sadler: I've never seen su~h a mark&~an in my life. Didn't intend to take aim. He missed one bulb. Now, I don't know whether--I su'pose he had a shot gun. Surely he couldn't have had such a highcpercentage of hits with a rifle--of course 'eres no way for us to tell. (Laughs) Ronnie: Have you heard any more-any tales about Buffalo Bill? Sammy Sadler: I used to have 'is book and it got away. That is-it uz written by Buffalo Bill himself. He-he led a wonderful, adventurous life. It's amazing 'at he lived to tlie--to die of old age-uh-t~ith the things he went through--it's amazing. Man looked like he just had a charmed life. You've heard of people having charmed life. Ronnie: People having charmed life? Sammy Sadler: Yeah. Ronnie: Now what do you mean by 'at? Sammy Sadler: Well, they can be in battle and bullets whizzin' 'round 'im like rain and uh men just fallin' all around 'em and they never get a scratch. -'+5- Have you heard of that?--'ell I have in plenty of cases . Ronnie: Do you know of anybody around here of of anything? Sammy Sadler: Naw, I've heard of it happnin' in uh--while I uz over in Franceheard of it happnin'. There was a doctor in our regiment-he had been a officer in the British army. Well, he was American, but when the war started he joined the British Army and uh he was a Lieutenant or somethin' in the army and aft' the war-the American side came in- he uh joined the American army ah he was ah major in our regiment-ah doctor-and he uz in sev'ral of those battles there on the Seine River and he told of some terrible tales there. He said uh the British artillery tOUZ four deep and wheel to wheel and they bombarded the German lines for forty-eight hours without let up and then when the bombardment was over, the British Infantry charged the German trenches and in thirty minutes they lost sixty thousand men--- Ronnie: Good gracious. Sammy Sadler: --but the Germans had dug underground sixty feet and this bombardment didn't hurt 'em--not a bit whatever--the shells couldn't penetrate the ground that deep. Well, when the British caarge d 'ern, they carne out wi"' machine gun jus' mowin' 'em down--just like uh--just like that and he wuz in that charge and never got a scratch on tim. (Laughs) Ronnie: Sq'you say he's got a charmed life? Sammy Sadler: Yeah---Now, they uz-my grandfather was in the Civil War. He fought down in Vicksburg--fve you ever been to Vicksburg? Ronnie: No sir, I haven't. Sammy Sadler: Well, you oughta' see th-that national park there. It's one of the most beautiful parks I've ever seen in my life and I've been-You've been to Chickamauga? ~ ." , 1 ; Ronnie: Yes sir. &8TltIy ~~('\Ju ~ We 1, It s-it's got that park beat. You see things there you couldn't believe existed. They uh-- the ole' fords and trenches and some of the cannons wuz still in position there when the last shot wuz fired--still there. M~ grandfather use to tell about the eight inch cannon the Confederates had at Vicksburg. He said it was upon uh---Vicksburg is built right on the rivero-the to~m is --but in back of the tOtVU is a high bluff and these uh cannon wuz upon this high hill. They had a eight inch cannon--that was the largest field piece then that any army had. And they named this gun "Ol~' Betsy" and they say, "Look out now boys, Ole' Betsy's gonna' belch!"-ever'time 'ey'd shoot. Well, uh I went to Vicksburg about ten years ago and uh it wuz exactly as my grandfather had told me when I ,yuz a boy. Now they had da' cut the big timber between the Confederate lines and the Mississippi River and the Yankee gun boats Bere on the river and these tree tops Bere full of Yankee snipers and the Confederates were in the trenches facing 'em. And uh they made a assault on the Confederate lines one day--he said you could see Yankees as far as you could see--just comin'-comin'- and comin' and he said the orders corne do,~, the line not to fire 'til you see the whiteo' their eyes. Well, that 'uz on account o' these snipers you see if a man stuck his head above 'at trench they'd shoot it off. They had one man that wanted to act brave and he got upon the t rencb-v-jstood upon it and he said they just filled him full of bullets--he looked like a milk shade--just 'at quick. Ronnie: Good gracious. Sammy Sadler: So, when 'ese Yankees---s-see the white 0' their eyes so close to the Confederates that the sniper's fire, they couldn't shoot you see. Ronnie: Urn-huh. , Sammy Sadler: Well, he said-they fired one volley and then the charge came to charge bayonets. He said they Came out 0' there 'ith bayonets and the Yankees couldn't take it. 'They went. back tOBard the river and he said you could walk on dead men'from the{e,to. the bank of the Mississippi River and not put yo' foot on the ground~-just the ground covered with corpses. Well, Grant never did take .Vick~burg with assau-assault. He just actually starved 'em out. Hecouldn't--he couldn't take itL-he just couldn't take it. ~ny, he assaulted those lines there three different times and everyone of 'em ended in a rout for 'is army cause he just starved those people out. Why, 'ey uZ eat in' rats and mules and everything they could get. He nev--he never did actually take 'ern by force. I don't know of anymore bear stories. (Laughter) If I'd had time 1 coul'a --it's been so long --oh, 'at's been way back yonder. He died in 1916. Ronnie: Do you know any legends like Tom Dooley or anything like that? Sammy Sadler: Who? Ronnie: Like--any legends about Tom Dooley? Sannny Sadler: Naw~sir, I don't believe I ever heard of 'im. Ronnie: You know any starnes about people getting killed? -if7- Sammy Sadler: Tom Dooley? Ronnie: Yeah. Sammy Sadler: Was he a war correspondent? Ronnie: Na". He-he lived here in Tennessee. There's a legend out about him. Sammy Sadler: I see. Seems like I've heard of tim, but I .can't connect 'im. Ronnie: Do you know any stories out about people been hung for killing somebody.? Sammy Sadler: Uh-hh- I heard a man say once he witnessed a public hanging up in Tennessee. They used to--every county, you know, do their o~vn hanging-they didn't car" 'em to penetentiary. He said it ,,,,z one 0' the biggest crowds you ever saw, to see that hanin'. I wouldn't wanta see it-- r' ~,!ouldn't t?anta see it. Nancy: He e i ther Sammy Sadler: Why, he said people faint~. Well, I believe 'ey gon' have to bring it back. Itls gettin'--gettin' to a place--- Ronnie: Hhat about witches---You kno" anything about witches? Sammy Sadler: 'Bout what? Ronnie: Hi tches? Sammy Sadler: Witching? Ronnie: Witches. Ladies. Women. Sammy Sadler: Oh, witches. Na", I never "as mixed up with any "itches. (Laughs) Rotlllie: Have you heard about any around here? Sammy Sadler: ' No sir, I heard-~ead this-- I heard about the man '~10 made a trade with the devil. I-I forget now what he was to do for the devil. Anyway, the devil set a day to pay 'im and he was to --the devil was to fill his boot full of gold to pay him and he hung his boot up a nail on the side of the wall so the toe of the boot .muld touch the floor. Well, he cut a hole in the toe of the boot,-then bored a hole in the floor. (Laughter) So-so the devil would keep money, you know, and run it dOvffi the cellar. That's what ya' call tryin' to beat the devil. (Laughter) Ronnie: You knotol any more stories about tryin' to beat the devil? Sarrnny Sadler: Let me see---No sir, I believe that's my only one--about him. (Laughs) Ronnie: \lell, ,o/hat ",as the devil paym ' him for? Sarrnny Sadler: The story didn't say. Ronnie: Didn't say? Sammy Sadler: No. People used to believe you could do that ",hen you believed in ",itches. That's what--in fact, that's ",hat they cal a witch-they'd sold out to the devil to do his meanness. Ronnie: Urn-huh. Sammy Sadler: And uh---that's the reason they call 'em witches. You've read about the Salem ",itchcraft, haven't ya'? Ronnie: No. Sammy Sadler: New England--Salem, Massachusetts' ",itches. They actually put people up on trial and uh hung 'em for being witches. Ronnie: Ilm-shuh , Sammy Sadler: Actually did that. -'/4- Ronnie: And you haven't heard anything about what the witches have done? Sammy Sadler: Not in this country. Uh, if you want some witch stories- you might go to Columbia Library dOt'" at Columbia. I saw this IiI' ole' book up 'ere at Spring Hill--they had a branch library there and I went there one day to get it and somebody had it out--I never did get it 'cause it 'uz. Did you ever hear 'bout the Robinson County Belle Wi tch? Ronnie: I-I've heard mention of it. Do you know anything about that? Sammy Sadler: 'Ell this book was on that. There 'uz a family named Belle up in Robinson County that t<uZ plagued by a witch. They finally had to leave. It touz-let me see-yeah-Andrew Jackson. It 'gin--it began to be a legend all through middle Tennessee about that witch. That 'uz aback in there in Jackson's day. And he and a crowd went up there to investigate it and they stayed all night in the house. And uh one man in that party claimed to be a witch killer--he had a pistol with silver bullets--he wuz to--when the witch came--he 'uz to shoot her. And uh they 'uz sitting in the room and this fella--this witch doctor 'uz sittin' there braggin' 'bout how he 'uz gon' kill that witch. 'Ell, the witch came in without--just came through the wall, you know, without opening the door and landed right on 'is back and started floggin' 'im and this fella jumped up and began to run around the room hollerin'--said, "Drag 'er off of me, drag 'er off of me!". 'Course fellas in the room couldn't see anything and he-he went out the door. And the last they saw of 'im he 'uz goin' through the woods heap, hooper in', and ho ller in' (Laughter) Ronnie: That's the last they saw of 'im? Sammy Sadler: What'd ya' say? Ronnie: That's the last they saw of 'im? Sammy Sadler: That's the last they ever saw of him. Ronnie: Goodness gracious. Sammy Sadler: Well, the rest 0' the crowd t~Z just dyin' o' laughin'. (Laughter) Sammy Sadler: They 'uz havin' a big-big time to see--to see all 'at. Yeah, - 50- they actually got a wagon team and provisions and went 'ere and stayed a while--Andrew Jackson and his party. Ronnie: And one of 'im got killed out of that party. Sammy Sadler: They don't know what 'ever become of 'im--never wuz seen nomore (Laughter). 0' course nOH, if he ouldn't killed after doin' all 'at braggin', he just kept goin'. (Laughter) Boy if--if you ever read that book, it's the terri blest thing you ever heard of, uh, I really don't believe it myself--I just think somebody's imagination ran wild. Ronnie: There's quite a few people around here that believe in it don't they? Sammy Sadler: What? Ronnie: There's quite a fe people around here that believe in the Belle Witch, don't they? Sammy Sadler: Oh , yeah, yeah--Naw it.. ta' the .last account I read of that uz' in the newspaper and it said the house is not there now but you can still see t;here-where the chimney used to be-just a pile of rubble there. Ronnie: Um--huh. Sammy Sadler: Of the old chimney--It 'uz very noted Belle Witch--Now some members of this family she liked~-of that Belle family--and the others she didn't have no use foro-just torment 'em all the time. They'd be asleep in bed and she'd come in and go to beating on 'em-I couldn't--I couldn't believe at, I just couldn't believe it. But actually what they told was somethin'--and the nnes of 'em that she liked if one of 'em got sick, she'd go to Florida and bring back oranges and fruit to fern and uh-uh-how she went and come back no one knew but she'd bring it in (Laughter). You don't remember hen 'ey had banana trains do you? Ronnie: Na'tv sir. Sammy Sadler: Well, ,;hen l'uz little He lived in West Tennessee well you hardly ever could buy any bananas at. the store and certain--one day out 0 t' two \oleeks uh banana train come through. It 'uld leave Ne'H Orleans go clear to St. Louis and every tOtvn it 'uld stop you could be at the right time do.m there and buy a stalk 0' bananas and it uz-ever-ever-every week day there be a big crowd there and you could -~- get yo' bananas (Laughter) Oh you could buy a stalk of bananas for seventy-five cents--Just have all the bananas you could eat. Ronnie: Do you--do you know of any ah-tales about people coming back to haint? Sa~mY Sadler: Don't believe I do--Mother used to say she didn't believe in haints. She said the good ones didn't wanta' come back and the bad ones couldn't. (Laughter) Sammy Sadler: And I believe I've 'uh--never wuz very scared--I always, uh, figured anything out before I started runnin'. (Laughs) I left home one morning milkin' cows in tha' winter time--I'd come late tho-after dark the night before up bout--before daylight the next mornin' to round 'em up and milk .early. I knew they needed milkin' and I didn't know--I had a IiI' ole' white kind of a' bulldog-- I didn't know he'd followed me--And over in the middle of the fi~ld wuz a'.old grave yard-old hazard grave yard and I 'uz in a' bout two hundred feet goin' by there and 1 heard a rustlin' over in the leaves. Finally in the thin dim of the darkness I could see somethin' white (Laughter) 'ell I just stopped in my tracks I says I ain't gonna run (Laughter) and 1 just stood there and in a-in-a' few minutes my dog Come to me, w~ll, if ltd ah took qff--~- Ronnie: You probably never would have went ~ack by there. Sammy-Sadler: Never known what ut wuz' and ltd Stmrn they ,~z somethin t over in that graveyard. Used to--l read a story once about uh crowd 0' boys went opossum huntin' and they got lost out 'n the woods and they were sittin f there talkin' about it and they saw some'in white approachin' 'em and all of em run but one boy and--he just sat there and uh finally the white thing come up and it has a covered wagon and he----------------- END OF TAPE: S~lMY SADLER #1 SIDE #2 j~z ~~ lO~23-66 - SA.- THE FOLLOWING TRfu~SCRIPT IS A CONTINUATION OF THE CONVERSATION WITH SAMMY SADLER TO BE FOUND ON: SAHMY SADLER in SIDE iH T~~E '*:L 10-23-66 Sammy Sadler: You take our scientist and the brainest men they have--they can arg-argue that there's no hereafter or they can argue that there isn't a hereafter either way they choose but neither side can-can get any evidence it's like the Nigger' preacher he said that if he had one feather out of an"angel's wing he c-c-could convince more people in a half-hour than he could in a life time preachin and I spect he's right--right about that. But the physical evidence--there's no way to know--Now you take ah 'Bible you have to have faith to believe what hit says don' cha ' --Well, we have to take the Bi bLe ! s word for it-we-we don't have any--anybody to ever come back that could tell us--Well I WUz ah struck by lightnin' once and I guess I was out about a hour--I had been out to workin at the back 0' the farm--Me and ah darkey was 'S~Bin' wood and we saw the storm comint--we went to th' house--Well it had rained that night and there wuz a lot 0' mud puddles in the road and I got to the house-it <vuz along in April just about the time 0' the year not to have a fire and I came in with wet feet and the first thing I did wuz I 'uz sittin right in front 0' the window jus' like I am here and my feet wuz wet and I took my shoes off which, I guess, saved my life and uh it started to hail. Well it started to-to rain, a terrible rain, jus' Come davID on the road, then it started hailin' and uh I turned my head to watch th' hail and that's the last thing I remember and I barely heard the thu-a lit Ie bit of the thunder and th-that's all I ever knew and it burnt ah strip aacross my chest about that wide and under each arm it pulled a plug o~ skin out just as round ~nd about the size of a dime and where that skin ever went to I don t t; know So if I hadn't had my shoes off, it ta-~ould ah busted 'em~-you see the steam, the mositure from yo' foot will bust a person's shoes when they struck by electricity. Well, I ~~Z out for about ah' hour and they said my face tVUZ was bl2ck as s~black as that stove there. Now it came do<,n the stove pipe and laid the stove pipe over on the bed and tvent out that wincier--just shattered that winder frame and made toothpicks out of it and I 'uz settin' be\~ en the stove and the window and uh-ya' see right up here (points to wall) was a heavy glass mirror and uh my mother uz settin' under that mirror and it knocked it off the wall and struck her in the head and she fell across me and my father 'uz sittin' over across the room--he had a Bible in 'is hand and it knocked a hole in the fly-leaf of that Bible just like a twenty-two bullet--just like a bullet going through it-it 'uz leather cover and it prOlcti-it knoc-it tore the chimney up and sp-practically spl-split that house in two. It just made toothpicks out of both those rafters up in the loft. Well, I-uh-turned to look at the hail and that 'uz the last thing I knew in this worldthe next thing I'll tell you about my mind <ynZ as clear and knew what wuz. gain' on as I'm settin' here talkin' to you and I wuz staudin' before the bar of judgement and I 'uz in a miserable place and 1-1-1 can't express words to tell you how I felt. I could feel the wrath of God and it \~z somethin l no human can stand up to--it ls just terrible. There I was wi' all o' my sins before me and I couldn't say a word for myself--couldn't say a word. And SUddenly a voice says I will--I'll stand for this man. And I turned and there <vuz my s2.vior. And I met-never met such a person in my life-personality that he had--you ca n'.t imagine--well my troubles vanished--I ,,,,,z-no more troubles--jus like that--I never saw a thing but I knew what \~z gain' on. It-it's most wonderful to have an experience like I had. I had been converted when I 'uz a boy eleven years of age and right .. t th~t time I w-uz--you might say--I ';liZ havin' hard time spiritually I had uh-got it into my head t ha t I wuz a hypocrit and I wouldn't worth saving I just thought they wouldn't nothing to me-people get that a way. But I never have since doubted my savior-hes powerful and he has authority to s~ve a person--you're the only people I've ever told that (Laughs) story to. Ronnie: Well, we appreciate it. Nancy: Thank you. Sammy Sadler: I don't know why but I just wanted to tell t hat; to you. Ronnie: Well, we appreciate it. Sammy Sadler: Well, I never doubt my religion now. I know that it is sure and certain and when you make up yo' mind that way nothin' in the Horld can take i t ~Wgy from you. It's ah--it' s a very short space between this world and judgement bar-overy short--Death--a physical death is as fast as a twinklin' of an eye, you don't feel ito-The t.roen t y-.- I believe it's the tHenty-third Psa lmv-ment t ons the valley of the shadow of death. 'Ell I believe instead of it being the a physical death it's the bar of judgement, I believe that's the death that it speaks of 'cause he says my rod and staff shall comfort thee and that's--that's Christ standing at the right hand of God judging these people as they are brought there. Well, when he said, "1' 11 s t and for this man."--Oh boy. (laughs) No sir, yo' money, yo' friends, yo' influence, and Hhat people thank of you can't get you by the judgement bar. Nobody but the Savior if he don't speak up for ya', it's good-bye. END OF TAPE: SN1MY SADLER #2 SIDE ifl TA?E: '" ~ 10-23-66 The action of this ballad happened in Atlanta, Georgia. "Frank DuPree" Come all my buddies, and all - a - my fren's and take this warnin' from me, Stop yore drinkin', roamin' aroun', Qnd live like men. Don't live like Frank DuPree. I "ent to Atlanta "ith mah s"eeheart fair I "~nt into a je,,'ry store. I took a diamond while---standing there But I'll never take no moah- I took that diamonJand I left that shop and I "alked out on the street. I out "ith mah pistol and I shot that cop and I laid him dead at my feet. I got me a flivver and I left that town to make my get a"ay, but mah sweetheart she wouldn't come aroun 1 So I could not stay a"ay. They had me arrested and I "ent to trial at last the Judge did say, Ohl Frank DuPree he's just a chile but he's thro..ed his life a"ay. Come 'ere dear Papa and Come 'ere quick and see the last 0' yo' son. See what smoking of the fire cigarettes and a-sportin' life has done. Oh! Betty, mah girl -- Ohl listen to me in these partin' "ords I say. Take this message from Frank DuPree and meet me in heav'n someday. The event in th1s ballad happened in Chicago, Illinois UMarianne Parker" Little Marianne Parker - she left her home one day. She started to the school house -- her heart was light and gay. Upon that fatal morning she kissed her mother good-bye. Not one time did the pur chile think that she was going to die. She took her loving sister and started do,<U the street. She left her home that morning an awful fate to meet. It was at her class that morning that Edward Hickman went. To tell little Marianne Parker of her papa's ac-ci-dent. He took her from the school room and carried her away. And wrote to her dear papa, 'I kidnapped her today, and if you want your daughter -- a ransom you must pay. Now let me give you warning to do just what I say. Bring fifteen hundred dollars unto our meeting place, or Marianne's death will follow. You'll never see her face.~ Her papa took the money just as the letter read, but when he found 1ittle Marianne, his darling chile was dead. It was an awful burden -- the brightness in the state; At the hands of Edward Hickman, little Marianne met her fate . This ballad depicts a youn~bo losing his sweetheart and his remembrance of his home in Tennessee. "t1y Little Home In Tennessee" Every night I'm dreaming of that little home down among the hills of Tennessee. An" I'm a l oays longing -- longing to return to the place that means the world to me~ Just a:little shack with the roof all turning black. Still it is a palace there to me. Father was always singing 'roun' the kitchen door, in my little home in Tennessee. I can see my mother standing by the gate as I drove the ole' horse up the lane. She would never scold me when I got home late. Ohl I wish I'd never caused her pain With a tender smile, dreaming all the while no one could be half as kind to me. Now she's gone to heaven and she'll never return to that little home in Tennessee. I can st i 11 remember many years ago when my sweethear,t wandered by my side. QOtvn among the ~ountings where~w~la~flgwers grow There she promised she would be my bride. Then another man won her heart in hand. Then I knew how much she meant to me. I .ruz broken-hearted and I t.ent away and left my l~~tle home in Tennessee. END OF TAPE: TAPE if 3 MRS. J.M. GILBERT SIDE If 1 11-28-66 A PDF transcript exists for this recording. Please contact an archivist for access. Professor John Burrison founded the Atlanta Folklore Archive Project in 1967 at Georgia State University. He trained undergraduates and graduate students enrolled in his folklore curriculum to conduct oral history interviews. Students interviewed men, women, and children of various demographics in Georgia and across the southeast on crafts, storytelling, music, religion, rural life, and traditions. As archivists, we acknowledge our role as stewards of information, which places us inaposition to choose how individuals and organizations are represented and described in our archives. We are not neutral, andbias isreflected in our descriptions, whichmay not convey the racist or offensive aspects of collection materialsaccurately.Archivists make mistakes and might use poor judgment.We often re-use language used by the former owners and creators, which provides context but also includes bias and prejudices of the time it was created.Additionally,our work to use reparative languagewhereLibrary of Congress subject termsareinaccurate and obsolete isongoing. Kenan Research Center welcomes feedback and questions regarding our archival descriptions. If you encounter harmful, offensive, or insensitive terminology or description please let us know by emailingreference@atlantahistorycenter.com. Your comments are essential to our work to create inclusive and thoughtful description.