Anne Richards interview with Thomas Stroud, Mary Stroud, J. Oscar Hussey, Collis Wise, Nellie Wise, and Forrest Parrish

The John Burrison Georgia Folklore Archive recordings contains unedited versions of all interviews. Some material may contain descriptions of violence, offensive language, or negative stereotypes reflecting the culture or language of a particular period or place. There are instances of racist language and description, particularly in regards to African Americans. These items are presented as part of the historical record. This project is a repository for the stories, accounts, and memories of those who chose to share their experiences for educational purposes. The viewpoints expressed in this project do not necessarily represent the viewpoints of the Atlanta History Center or any of its officers, agents, employees, or volunteers. The Atlanta History Center makes no warranty as to the accuracy or completeness of any information contained in the interviews and expressly disclaims any liability therefore. If you believe you are the copyright holder of any of the content published in this collection and do not want it publicly available, please contact the Kenan Research Center at the Atlanta History Center at 404-814-4040 or reference@atlantahistorycenter.com. In the first twenty minutes of this recording, seven members of the Stroud and Hussy families sing folk songs such as Rosewood Casket Old Virginny, Swing Low Sweet Chariot, and Found a Peanut. Singers include Mary Stroud, Lila Hurst, Peggy Stroud, Paul Stroud, Allene Smart, Katreen Vaughn, and Charlotte Farmer. A pipe organ is played occasionally throughout. The transcript includes a list of who sings each song. 21:44: In the next section of the audio, Anne Vaughn Richards interviews her grandparents, Thomas Meldridge Stroud Grandaddy and Mary Viola Stroud Mama." Mary talks about her inability to read music, how she taught herself how to play the pipe organ, and where she learned the songs played in the recording. On the topic of his employment, Thomas says he taught school, but his main source of work was farming and construction. He explains bricklaying and log cabin building. The trio returns to the topic of songs and the community, then moves on to discuss the Great Depression when Thomas father founded a church. Thomas then talks extensively about his grandfather, a plantation owner; specifically about the enslaved African Americans who worked there, and his fighting in the Confederate army. He then describes Reconstruction and the effect of the war on rural Alabama. The next part of the interview focuses on farming, paper mills, and the economy in Coffee County, Alabama, particularly farming peanuts and pine trees for paper. They then talk about when Thomas was drafted into the United States Army during World War I and his time stationed at Camp Jackson, South Carolina. Mary then starts reminiscing about hobbies, including collecting coins and shells, and quilting. The next section of the interview is a lengthy discussion about food. Mary mentions growing beans, making sausage, cooking possum, canning, bread baking, churning butter, and growing sugar cane. Thomas then talks about weaving baskets, specifically how he became interested and learned the craft. Next, Richards grandparents talk about folk medicine, specifically about using asphidity bags and tree bark as toothbrushes. They also talk about household chores such as cooking, washing clothes, making soap, and midwifery. This conversation is followed by their thoughts on churches and cemeteries in Elba, Alabama, and why the Stroud family moved from South Carolina to Alabama after Thomas grandfather committed murder. 1:29:00:After the interview, Oscar Hussy described where he learned the songs he is playing and sings The Ship That Never Returned. 1:30:00: Collis Wise and his wife, Nell, sing songs with non-lexical vocals followed by the same songs with their lyrics. Songs include Refreshing Shower and How to Burn a Foundation. The Wises discuss that they learned the Sacred Harp songs from family members. Oscar Hussy then sings Boston Burglar. 1:43:30 1:45:01 silent 1:45:02: The recording continues with more group singing and low, inaudible talking. At the conclusion, Forrest Parrish briefly discusses Sacred Harp singing in Coffee County. Thomas Meldridge Stroud (1891-1973) was born to Joseph Thomas Stroud (1859-?) and Martha Cain Stroud (1861-) in Alabama. He married Ethel May Johnson (1892 -1995) and they had a son, Joseph Eldridge Stroud (1910 -2001), who lived with his grandparents, Joseph and Martha Stroud. Thomas and Ethel later divorced. Thomas was drafted into the United States armed forces in 1917 during World War I, after which he married Mary Viola Hussey (1901-1997) in 1919. They had five children: Katreen Stroud Vaughn (19201997), Allene Stroud Smart (1922-1972), Grace Stroud (1926-1995), Howard Stroud (1932-1981) and Paul L. Stroud (1936- 2015). Thomas, Mary, Katreen, Allene, and Paul are all buried in Evergreen Cemetery in Elba, Alabama. SONGS AND CONVERSATION COLLECTED IN ELBA. ALABAMA by Ann Vaughan Richards for Assistant Professor John Burrison English 307 6:1>0 Class GEORGIA STATE COLLEGE December 1967 Map showing location of Elba, Alabama, from Montgomery After I had finished my collecting project for Folklore :307, I learned that my Grandmother, Mary Viola Stroud, was interested in taping some songs for me. I took my recorder home to get her songs over t,he Thanksgiving holidays. My Grandmother was extremely interested in my class and made an effort to help me collect additional material. As a result, I gathered more material than it was possible to transcribe since my report was due on November 27; however, I will outline the tape g:l.ving names and other information. ~& taping session with my Grandmother turned into a family taping session. Other members of the fa~ily had learned that I was taping and. before long, twelve to fifteen people had gathered to hear and participate. As a result of the family gathering, it was impossible to maintain any formality in recording. I had had no previous experience with taping songs and I let the first few songs run together on the tape. r later tried to correct this. r also discovered early in the session that I had my recorder speed set at :3 :3/4 ips instead of 7 1/2 ips. r continued taping at this speed to avoid confusion. For some reason, the tape broke as I was playing back "Barbara Allen". Some of the songs I taped were being sung from old songbooks and I have indicated in mw outline which songs were not being sung from memory. My Grandmother has a number of old songbooks and the family 11-<; became interested ill these books and began singing for t-heir own pleasure. 11& Grandmother said that she had once known all the songs on my list, and she waS surprised when she discovered that she could not remember them. As indicated on the tape, mw Grandmother and her family sang a lot when she was a girl. I can remember sitting with tho farrJily during the holidays and listening to "Mama" play the piano or organ and sing. I later talked with mw Grandmother and Grandfather on the tape. Until two years ago, my Grandfather would entertain the family with stories ,md tales for hours; however, he is in very poor health nm., as a result of several heart attacks and I did not try to coax him to say anymore than he ;nshed. The place of recording Was Elba, Alabama (see map attached). It is a rural area and is still sparsely populated. In recent years there has been some industrialization and the economy has been rrmch improved. The crops grown are coLton, corn and peanuts. SIDE ONE Participants of Family Song Session Lila Hussy Hurst (56) Allene '"" ("" H"', ""'"' (66) ",ood ,""", (4,) "l"," S',ool V,o,"," Paul L. troud (Jl) Wife: Peggy Stroud (29) (47) Charlotte Vaughan Farmer (25) LIST OF SONGS Little Rosewood Casket Allene Smart !rJ:( \1 "j , Nelly Gray (from book) Old Kentuc~y Home (book) Windswept Desert Swing Low Sweet Charl..ot (book) Sweet Bunch of Daisies Paul Stroud, Mary Stroud Paul Stroud, Mary Stroud Allene Smart, Katreen Vaughan Paul ,stroud, Mary Stroud, Allene Smart Dirt" Mary Stroud, Allene Smart Ruben, Ruben I: Katreen Vaughan, Allene ,smart (children's version) (Jujl,O ,X/i.' Put My Little Shoes Away Mary Stroud \/"J . I Ud, The Old Cat Messed in the Cream Pot Found a Peanut Punkin was Dead and Laid In His Grave Allene Smart, Katreen Vaughan Charlotte Farmer Charlotte Farmer', Allene Swart 7 f-,,;I' ( ..{j .,{iJ \',: Barbara Allen Jack and Joe Uncle Ned (book) Silver Threads Arnong the Gold Old Dan Tucker Way:fari.ng Stranger (book) Li:fe's Evening Sun (book) Promised Land (book) Precious Lord (book) I Will Meet you in the Morning (book) \\lho at My Door is Knocking (book) Glory Land Mary Stroud, Lila Hurst ;J'\A/(J2~_..J Lila Hurst f!lk~J' Mary Stroud Mary Stroud, Allene Smart Paul Stroud, Allene Smart ae-'11-,tP--;--\._.e,~~ Paul Stroud Paul Stroud, Mary Stroud, Peggy Stroud It It It Paul and Peggy Stroud Paul Stroud, Mary Stroud, Peggy Stroud Lila Hurst Paul Stroud, Peggy Stroud, Mary Stroud Paul Stroud, Peggy StI'Dud, Mary Stroud Lila Hurst, Katreen Vaughan, Allene Smart SIDE TWO Side two contains two songs by Mr, Oscar Hussy, age 73, my Grandmother I S brother, He 'vent to Mr, Hussy t s home on November 24 . (I) to get "The Ship that Never Returned",' He sung as much as he could remember and said he would try to remember "The Boston BurgleI''' and would call me if he could, On November 25, J went back to Mr. Hussy's I) .J,' ;;" home and he sang all of "The Boston BurgleI''' for me. 'tUZ ,1.-1 (>f;; After J left 111'. Hussy's home, tll'f Grandmother took me to the home '71 7 2 of Mr. and HI's. Collis Wise where I collected four sacred harp songs. The titles of these songs are: Refreshing Showers tjl 'C,' HariJ.la t s Lesson iJ) Soft Music (S'l How Firm a Foundation Mr. Hise mentioned that sacred hal'pI singing was having a revival now and I noticed that his song book was new; however, it was a new edition of the old ODe that Mrs, Wise was singing from. My Grandmother told me later that the "revival" was nothing more than renewed interest in this singing by old people and that the young people did not care for that type of singing. I noticed that both Mr. and Mrs. Wise tapped their feet as they IIl1ng il,nd their right hands moved up and down in vertical strokes in time with the tune. I Has surprised to find that the people in Elba showed no Msitancy Hhatsoever in singing or talking on the recorder. As a matter of fact, they all seemed eager to cooperate and get taped. They kept trying to get all their friends on tape and I am sure I could have filled several more tapes. I Has pushed for time and had to tell them that I could not tape from the others. The mailing address for all of my informants is simply Elba, Alabama. (ir,;; V, 1) ,'eh fwd ") %J fiJI M/e '" Vt9U ') hAN f;oLtfe, Olue, 130( {r"f F l fJ /1, f9 (pfi/l rlJr1 INTERVIEW WITH MR. PAUL L. THOW,S by Ann Vaughan Richards for Assistant Professor John Burrison English 307 6:40 Class GEORGIA STATE COLLF;GE December 1967 I. II. TABLE OF CONTENTS Introduction Interview 1. Superstitions 1 3 i A. B. C. D. ]c,. Taking eggs to nest Standing broom up Taking a trip and turning back Red ears of corn in crop Sweeping trash out after sun-down 4 5 5 5 6 2. Saying about monster (J" 3. "Barbara Allen" 4. Corn shuckings 5. House raisings 6. Jokes A. Negro in funeral home B. Man who sat up in casket C. ~fursh Hile cooning the footlog D. Drunk crossing footlog in storm 7. Log houses Taking pants off in bed 8. Preparing food for Winter A. Bleachi.ng fruit B. Smokehouses 7 7 :g 9 10 11 I) 14 14 15 16 16 17 9. Free range 10. Driving hogs to market 11. Salt curing meat 12. Pickled beans 13. Leather_britches beans 1/+. Joke about fat meat used to cook with 15. Pickled corn 16. How beans are pickled 17. Building houses 18 18 23 24 25 27 27 28 29 ii III. Appendix 1. Photographs 34 2. Map Showing Location of Young Harris, Georgia from Atlanta 36 3 Addresses 37 4. Release 38 INTRODUCTION t1r. Paul L. Thomas. age 76, and his wife, Elsie, age 70, live in Young Harris. Georgia. located appro~tmately 115 miles from Atlanta (see map) in the mountains of North Georgia. This is a beautiful rural area which is largel,y untouchEld by industry. The Thomas family livEl5in a house which Mr. Thomas partially built himself. This student visited Mr. Thomas on October 7. 1967. at 11'O'clock a.m. I talked with Mr. and Mrs. Thomas for approximately three hours. \\1e discussed his background. th" area in which he lived. and the subject m.atter desired for the tape. We made a rough outline of the material to be recorded. Mr. Thomas was very cooperative. VII'. Thomas said his mother and the children would often gather around on cold nights and sing--sometimes nearly all night_-and never repeat a song. He said he use to play the banjo for dances; hOVIever. he did not OVIn a banjo anymore, and it had been many years since he had done much singj.ng. He tried very hard to remember the verses of some of the old songs, but could not; he said it had just beep too long since he had sung. However. he had at one time known most of the far~liar old ballads and songs. We spent a great deal of time going over names of songs. The only song which he could remember was "Barbara Allen" and he readily sang it, for me. During the recording of the song. his voice failed several times due to a cold and he apologir,ed for this. J'lIusic had, ho"ever, been an integral part of his "upbringing" and he apparently' passed this on to his children. He has a daughter "ho "rites and sings songs (I gathered her songs were of a religious nature) Mr. and Mrs. Thomas were very hospitable and gave me a jar of pickled beans and pickled corn. He told me to go home, cook them, and see if they weren't the best things I'd ever eaten. He said he would appreciate it if I would write him and let him know how I lJ.ked them. Mrs. Thomas had recently been ill and was still quite weak. As a consequence, she said very little, but sometimes reminded Mr. Thomas of su.bjects to talk about. Upon leaving the Thomas home, M..r. 'fhomas said that he hoped he had been able to give me the kind of information I wanted and tried to get us to stay for lunch. I located Mr. Thomas through Mrs. Rayburn who works in the Registrar's Office of Young Harris Junior College. A student who had attended this college gave me }lrs. Rayburn's name. This student, vlendy Duncan, told me that Mrs. Rayburn could give me the names of some possible informants. 2 IN'rERVIEW Richards: I'm in the home of Mr. Paul Thomas and his wife, Elsie Thomas. Mr. Thomas what year were you born? Mr. Thomas: I was born in 1891. Richards: And Mrs. Thomas what year were you born? Mrs. Thomas: 1897. Richards: How long have you lived here sir? Mr. Thomas: In this country? Richards: In--right here. }lrs. Thomas: Eleven years. Mr. Thomas: Eleven years at this hO~Je. Richards: And where were you born? Mr. 'rhomas: I was born at Young Harr'is. Richards: You were born in Young Harris? Mr. Thomas: Vb huh. Richards: And have you lived at Young Harris all your life? 3 4 Mr. Thomas: I've lived here in sight of Young Harris all rolf life. Richards: And did your parents live here too? Mr. Thomas: My parents--Yes, they wuz born and raised here and died here. Richards: And you were telling me all the occupations you had had; All the various jobs and will you just give me--run through those for me? Mr. Thomas: Well I use to work--use to work at Young Harris College. I worked there fourteen years__for the sum of fifty cents a day--five cents an hour--ten hours for fifty cents. Hard labor I'm talkin' about too. Then from that I went to working for myself. I went to sawmilling, using the threshirt' machine; I finally got into selling goods; I had to get in all these brush piles to make a livin' for rolf chil'un. I scratched in most all these big brush piles. Richards: Uh now Mr. Thomas, you--we were talking about some superstitions and so forth just a few minutes ago and there was one superstition about eggs--uh you put the eggs__ Mr. Thomas: Well I USe to hear one about the eggs. If the lady carried -_if the woman carried em to the nest in her bonnet, they'd all be pullets; If a man carried em to the nest in his hat, they'd all :be roosters. (laughter) Richard,,: And uh--the broom. M-r. Thomas: I've heard about if you'd stand the broom up on its handle you'd have good luck, but if you put it down on the broom part you'd have bad luck. Richards: And there was another one about when you started anywhere and you turned back. Mr. Thomas: Yes, I've heard that when you started anywhere and then turn around and go back, its bad luck--if you don't make a cross in the road and spit in that cross. That makes good luck. Richards: And the red ears of corn? Mr. Thomas: And I've heard that--uh-_that uh if you had the__if you didn't have very much red corn in your corn, why you wouldn't have very many bushels, but the more red corn the more bushels. That's a superstitious idee too. Richards: And for every__every red ear there was suppose to be a bushel? Mr. Thomc~s: Bushel to every-_every red ear. uh huh. Richards: And you don't believe that. 5 Mr. Thomas: I don't believe that, no mam, because I know of one man that's got a full crop of red corn--ain't a grain in it but red. (laughter) Richards: And HI's. Thomas--uh Mrs. Thomas has a superstition about sweeping on Sunday I believe. Mrs. Thomas: Uh no--If you sweep trash out-_uh when you're sweepin' your house and you sweep trash out after the sun goes down its bad luck. Richards: Ohl I see. Richards to Mr. Thomas: And there was a story you were telling fie__ you may have a little difficulty remembering it because you did while ago--about the wild monsters--this old saying this fellow---- Mr, Thomas: Well, uh we use to have an ole gentleman at Young Harris that was awf'ly superstitious and he wuz afraid of animals so someone told him that there'uz a wild monster runnin' at large at the Crow's Gap and he says uh 6 7 I've been con-tem-flis-i-cating(?) On sending my son John-_my son Jasper And if it be so also send John. Bring im forth into civil.i-zation of Young Harris And tame thee and feed him Such food that'd be beneficial to his body. (laughter) Richards: And I believe also that you-_you have agreed that you'll sing just a little bit of Barbara Allen for me. Mr. Thomas: I'll try. Oh I .rlsh I had a little chile That'ud run for me one hour I'd send him do,;n to ole Charleston's town I'd bring back my Barbro Ellen I'd bring my Barbro Ellen I'd send him down to ole Charleston's town I'd bring back my Barbro Ellen Uncle Will here stands yore sister's chile That'ud run for you one hour He'll run down to ole Charleston's town He'll bring back the Barbro Ellen He'll bring back the Barbro F;llen He'll run down to ole Charleston's town He'll bring back the Barbro Ellen He ran and he ran til he came to town Wnere these three maids were a dwellin' He tipped his hat and he made a neat bow He inquired for the Barbro Ellen He inquired for the Barbro Ellen He tipped his hat and he made a neat bow He inquired for the Barbro Ellen Mr. Thomas: You want me to__ (indicating if he should continue the song) } 8 Oh slow-lie slow-lie she got up And slow-lie came unto him Young man you're sick and you're very sick And death is in you dwellin' Oh yes I'm sick I'm very sick And death is in me dwellin , And never no better will I ever be Til I git mv Barbro Ellen Til I git mv Barbro Ellen And never no better "ill I ever be Til I git mv Barbro Ellen Oh yes you're sick and very sick And death is in you dwellin' And never no better will you ever be For you'll not git your Barbro Ellen You'll not git your Barbro Ellen And never no better wi.ll you ever be For you'll never git your Barbro Ellen Hr. Thomas: Let's skip that I don't-- So she hadn't got five miles 'way from tOlm . Til she heard his death bell.s ringing She looked to the East and looked to the West Til she seen his corpse a comin' Oh lay down yore corpse lay down yore corpse And let me gaze upon im Oh it hadn't been for mv own hard heart Sweet Willy would a been a livin' Mr. Thomas: There's some mOre but I forgot __that'll do just fine, Richards: o.k, Mr. Thomas knows qUite a few songs, At the moment he can't remenmer uh--the names of them or the verses and I forgot my song list and am unable to help him. I regrBt this very much .. Richards: Mr. Thomas has some memories about corn shucking also. Can you tel'!. us about that 7 Mr. Thomas: \>Iell, back "hen I'uz young we use to have corn shuckins through our country here. A man would gather up all his crop; put it in a big pile. First he'd put a jug of liquer there and he'd cover it up with this big pile of corn and uh '"hen they--then they'd have a jug to one side there and ever man that found a red ear, he got the first drink and if he didn't find no red ear, he didn't get one til he got through. So when they'd git through then, they'd git this jug out and then they'd all have a happy time for the rest of the night. (laughter) Richards: Can you tell us about--you were telling about house raising. Mr. Thomas: Yes. Richards: How the community would help? Mr. Thomas: Yes, we use to have house raisins here. Most everone that built him a house back in them days, why they uh invited the community in--all their friends. They'd have it on a certain day. They'd all meet there that 9 mornin' and they'd give him a day's work too I mean; they'd prob'ly ral.se his house to the roof and even-- even put the roof on it-_maybe move him that day. I've know'd of that a being done. Yes, everbody was lovely then. Everbody loved one another, but they don't do that no more. (Laughter) They don't love us anymore. Richards: No, I have to agree with you. Mr. Thomas: If you can I t do it yourself, it's just too bad--you ,\'on' t git it done anymore. Richards: I agree with you. And you were saying that people use to sit up with the dead and how they would sing at night. Mr. Thomas: ThE'y did. Yes mam, they use to sit with the dead here. We had no funeral home. We never knew of one til I'uz-- oh, I guess I'u:? prob'ly sixty years old before I ever heard of a funeral home--except one. I'll tell you one e,r I heard of in Atlanta. I'll tell you this joke, then we'll go ahead, Richards: Go right ahead. Mr. Thomas: They'uz a darky got in trouble down there. The law got after im.~nd he passed a nigger funeral home. They'uz several niggers in there with sheets over em and the 10 11 man that owned the funeral home, the director, WUZ on the outside in the yard, so this here nigger that wuz in__negro__that got into trouble he run in there and he crawled down to the side of one with this sheet over im and pulled it up over lim. So the director come in, and when he come in this nigger raised up and says "Are they all gone?" Tbat 'un run out and--uh--the director run out in the yard and fell dead! (laughter) Mr. Thomas: That won't work will it. Richards: That's great, never mind. (laughter) Richards: And you had another joke too. You were telling about--about the gentleman who died and was all curled up. Mr. Thomas: Yeah. There wuz a man died--they claim this is true. This--this man died and he died with artharitus or sump'un and he'uz all drawed up you know--and--just tied in a knot and they put im in a casket. One got ahold of his knees, the ather'n his head and straightened im up in the casket and pttt the led on im. And when the 12 preacher got to preachin' his funeral why he said-when he got through__he says: "Well I guess the brotherned love to see him now and so we'll open up the led and let em look at im for the last time". Well when they opened the led, he just rared up--set up--set up in the casket. Well, the prf)acher he broke to run and run out the front door and he run over an ole deacon way down in the field. He says: "1 think it I S a devil of a pore come off--little ole church built a way back in the thicket just one door in itl (laughter) Richards: Cause you said if it'd had another door, thi.s preacher would've gotten-- Mr. Thomas: Yeah, if it'd had another door now, the preacher'd run out'n i.t. It didn't, he had to come out by this man that'u~ sittin' up in the casket where the trouble V/UZ. (laughter) Richards: And you had another version of that ahout the preacher who run through the hog lot. 13 Mr. Thomas: Well I sorta hate to say that. Richards: You can tell it. Just go right ahead. (Laughter) 11r. Thomas: I don't know__ I believe I'd ruther not tell it. Richards: All right if yOU'Q ruther not; that's just fine. Mr. Thomas: Yeah I just--I believe that one's wrong. (laughter) Richards: O.K. \1hat about the story you were telling about Marsh Hi.le and the coon? Mr. Thomas: Ole Uncle Marsh Hile a friend of mine wuz comin' up through the bottom. down below Young Harris one night with a ma.n and the man wuz drunk--wobbliJ\' and a wobblin.' along behind him. He gotten about a hundred and fifty bl 9 yards of the footlawg-_i:l;.I-s-a high footlawg--he said now-I' he looked around at this ole drunk and says: "Can you coon this footlawg?" He says: "Hell yes! I can coon it." And he got down there and he cooned that trail for a hundred and fifty yards fore he ever got to the footlawg! (laughter) 14 Richards: And what about the ole drunk and the footlog and the l1.ghtening? Mr. Thomas: They'uz another ole fella comin' long one time and he had to cross the rootlawg. The creek wuz deep and it's high up off the--the footlawg's high up off or the water and it'uz an awful storm on__the lightenin' just a flashin'iand he decided that he'd just back up there and when it lightened-.--he'd see the footlawg he'd run aCrOSS while it wuz lightenin'. Well he got about half across and the lightenl.n' run out and of course this fella he just busted the creek open. Got out on the other side and he says: "By golly if I pretend to hold a line for a man I'd hold it! I wouldn't just pretend to hold it!" (laughter) Richards: And you--you were telling--uh--about the way of life in the mountains. You sal.d that you all lived in a log cabin-log house? Mr. Thomas: That's right. Most everbody in our community back at them days--wasn't any large houses in the country and I don't know--I don't believe I knew of one that had a two story 15 building in it. I don't believe there'uz one in the country that had-_had two stories. Most genr'ly there'uz just one big room about sixteen or eighteen feet square-lo" g room. And everbocJ1,' at that day and time--most everbody-_eat and slept all in the same room. If they'uz a big family, why they just put pallets down and had three beds in the room. They cooked and eat off the far-place and most everbody lived that a way in the whole communlty back when I 'UII; a chile. Rlchards: And did you live in one? Mr. Thomas: I lived in one, yes mam, we Ilved in one several years. There'uz just one room. I think finally long ln the last part of that we had uh--uh we had us a little side room built on one that we cooked meat in. But we slept-all slept in this big room. I know this, when we had company--I'll put this in there. Richards: Just go right ahead. Mr. Thomas: 'Vhen we had company uh prob'ly I'd--they'd all be in the bed and I'd have to strjp and go to bed you know right in thls same room. I'd git in the bed and pull Ill\' pants off after I'd git in bed! (laughter) 16 Richards: I guess there was no other way. (laughter) Richards: How did you--you store food for the winter? Mr. Tholms: \,e11 uh--we had no way of storin' food for the winter, [.7:11'51-, J except osh potatoes we'd bury them in the ground you know, and sweet potatoes we'd bury them. Git em good and dry and bury em in the ground. They'd last pretty good. Mrs. Thomas: And dry your beans. Mr. Thomas: But we'd dry our beans. We called em hay beans, leather britches bean. And uh, we uh, back then when me and my wife'uz first married and on back of that, we'd bleach our fruit. We'd take uh sulfur and bleach it in four gallon jars. Richards: What does that mean? Mr. Thomas: We'd take this green fruit and we'd hold it over this sulfur while it'uz a burnin' and bleach it and it--that uh-_that'd preserve it. It__it'd last all winter. Oh it'uz w0nderfully go0d! Oh it's good! 17 Richards: Hmm, I never have heard of that. Mr. Thomas: Well that's true. 'rhat's been since me and l11Y wife's been married. Course we been married fiftY_four years. That ain't long you know. (laughter) Mr. Thomas: But anyway--that's the way we--and then l11Y mother back in her day before me and l11Y wife WU~ married. why we'd git these Fall grapes and she'd--she'd dry them and she'd dry peaches and apples and these Fall grapes I know we'd-- we'd dry them and childrun had nothin' to carry with em for lunch at dinner and uh--apples or some little somethin' the fore part of the Fall, but these grapes we'd put--git our pockets full of them and we'd eat on them all d~y. I thought that'uz the delicious finest thing I ever eat in l11Y life. I wish I had some yetI (laughter) Richards: What about your meat. Did you have smokehouses, Mr. Thomas: Yes, we had smokehouses built back then. We'd uh--just for the meat purposes. We'd go to the mountains prob'ly and kill our hawgs right off of the mash. Don't know where--don't know where you know what mash means or not. ~~ASt -J\,{~~jv 18 Richards: No. Mr. Thomas: But that's acorns and chestnuts. Back then the woods-why you could just rake up the chestnuts by double handful. by the bushels and bushels and hawgs runnin' out in the free range you see they could--they could-- they could eat all the chestnuts and acorns. They'd gil, so fat they couldn't walkl You'd go out there and you'd kill em. Bring em in, put em in your smokehouse. Have plenty of meat that way and the cattle had free range. Wasn't no--there wasn't no fence law then, and now they've took the range away from us, all the chestnuts are dead-gone and I think that'uz due to the fact that God seen that we didn't need em any longer and he just take em from us. Richards: I know; I wouldn't be surprised. Mr. Thomas: I'm honest about it. We had--itluz free. Everbody just walk out in their backyard and kill their hawgs back then. Richards: Oh! Mr. Thomas: \"ell, later (I'll tell this)--later me and my brother after we'uz oh--it's been problly forty-five years ago-we use to buy these hawgs from these folks in these 19 mountains. The last trip we went, we bought four hundred and fifty head of these mountain hawgs--from pigs up to big hawgs. We'd drive em from here to Gainesville, Loose in the road and uh-- Richards: On foot? Mr. Thon~s: Yes mam, on foot. So we--I--I remember one time we had a big ole stock hawg in the bunch weighed about four hundred pounds. We got in Gainesville; they had a little trolley line down there--a little uh we'd call it a trolley line-a little streetcar run by electricity I s'pose. But anyway, it met us right in town there with this big bunch of hawgs loose you know in the road,and it scared our hawgs and they--they turned and ran. We lost twenty head there I Richards: Myl Mr. Thomas: I--that conductor on that thing--if I'd had a shotgun I guess I'd a shot im cause I never seen a man laugh as hard in ~ life. Course it'uz funny to me after it'uz over now under~~M~?(laughter) Richards: Yeah, but you lost twenty hogs too. Mr. Thomas: I lost twenty hawgs during his laugh. (laughter) 20 Mr. Thomas: He just ran right up in the bunch and stopped and that scared the hawgs and, oh man I we had a time. Richards: Well it's a long way to Gainesville, uh .... Mr. Thomas: Sixty__sixty five miles from here to Gainesville. Richards: How long did it take you? Mr. Thomas: Tuk us three day and a half to go. Richards: And what did you do at night? Mr. 'fhomas: \";ell at night l"e uh--on tb:ls side of the Blue Ridge now. This ole stuff now we're talkin' about prob'ly you don't understand. But uh they had a toll gate on this side of the mountain. You had to paY'--fo:~ a wagon you had to pay twenty-five cents to git your wagon through. And they had a lot there then if you wanted to store your--if you wanted to keep your cattle, or your hawgs, sheep or whatever you had,' over. They had a lot built for em-- just put em in it and I forgit how nmch it cost, but three or four dollars for a bunch of hawgs. We'd keep em on this side of the Blue Ridge the first ni.ght. Next night we keep em at the toll gate on the other side__they'uz Ol lot" over there. And the next night we'd go into Cleveland-_ bJ.g lot there. \";e'd pay for these lots as 1"e went. We'd-- 21 and then the third day at twelve o'clock we'd go into Gainesville and put em in the stockyard there and we sell em to the highest bidder or whoever we could sell em to. Richards: And walk back. Mr. Thom-9os; \Talk back) uh huh. Richards: You faust have been tired when Mr. '[,homas: In other words, we'd--in goin' now we gen'ly had a wagon you see. We'd__14e'd uh take this wagon. I'd load it with corn--prob'ly twenty bushels on that to feed these hawgs til I'd git down there. And when I'd git down there then, then we'd ride back on the wagon. You see we'uz loaded and had to drive these hawgs a foot. I had myself and two men to help me drive em and uh-_I had one man then drivin' the team with my corn-_to feed em on. We come to a covered bridge down there--prob1ly you never seen one. Richards: No. Mr. Thomas: Over the river__it 1u7, covered like a house and you drove through that. Richards: Oh. 22 bq,d Mr. Thomas: We got there and got our hawgs scared there and oh it tuk us long enough to went on in to Gainesville to git these hawgs quiet and git em through that dark bridge you see. \~e had a time, I'll tell you we did. Richards: How much did you sell the hogs for? Mr. Thomas: j'lell--they "'1120 different prices. These--now back of that we'd made good money on em. We'd sell these little mountain pigs we'd say six weeks old. I called em a grunt with--just a bunch of hair with a grunt in it. (laughter) So uh we'd sell them high as ten dollars a piece--them bir;t::,~ little~fellas--very small. And the bigger ones--larger ones--more money. But the last trip we went down there I financed row brother. He went in with me on this four hundred and fifty head. I bought em all, furnished the money and uh, when we got down there, to be fair, he uh-- he--he got beside hi.s_self; he got to doin' a little sum'n he oughten a done. (laughter) And he got to wastin' my money and I knew I had all this money involved in ~yself, and he didn't have a thing in it but this ork you know. So uh we lost eighty dollars-- 23 five weeks of the hardest work I ever did in row life. But we made it all right. Richards: Yeah, well Mr. Thomas: But we quit then haulin' hawgs down there. Richards: When you--you killed hogs for the winter, or when you put em in the smokehouse, how was this meat cured? }~. Thomas: Well we--we--we salt cured it. We'd put these hams or middlins or shoulders or whichever it be. We'd first make us a banch there to put it on--then we--scatter salt all over that. They'd be plenty salt on that. 'fhen we'd put these hams or shoulders, whichever you want to put down there, and we'd rub this salt allover that now-_ and all in it and all in the joints that you could git to-- and cover it up with that salt. That'd be along in November. That makes the best meat now you ever eat in your life. Richards: I think I've had some and it is delicious. Mr. Thomas: . Uh huh. And so after that then, why yOU'd hang it up after it takes all this salt it'll take. Then hang it up with the joint dovm. "'1I1e1"e you cut off the leg, why hang it--put the ham up and the joint down--that keeps the 24 dreenin' on it and it'll--it'll preserve and just stay right there right on and on. That's fine, that's extry goodl Richards: It must have been a lot of hard work to have prepared that food for the winter' time. Mr. Thomas: It wuz. It'uz world__it'uz world of trouble. Yeah, lots of trouble to git it all prepared. And pickled beans, why we'd--back then we'uz talkin' about oh people goin' in and helpin' you know Richards: Yeah. Mr. Thomas: I-ihy we'd pick beans, maybe we'd have ten bushel in the ~iddle of this room that I'm talkin' about now-_this big ole lawg room that we lived in. Weld have prob'ly ten bushels piled up (she knows about it) (indicating that Mrs. Thomas knew about it) (laughter) Piled up in the floor. And then our neighbors come in and help up break-_strang and break these beans-_all good and tender. Wasn't no bugs back then to bite your beans and sUck em up--all nice and good. Well then. we I d-_ prob'ly \/O'd have--i.f you had a big family, you'd git --you git you a sixty--about sixty gallon can, barrel you know--to put these beans in. Put up sixty gallons-maybe two 60 gallon barrels, of pickled beans--not uh uh Richards: Pickled--pickled beans? Mr. Thomas: Pickled beans, yes .mam. Huh? Richards: I never have heard of pickled beans. Mr. Thomas: Bless yore heart, I'uz raised on em. Well anywords, then we'd--we'd pickle these beans. Then we'd dry em, make leather_britches out of the green beans we'd be dryin' em--called em shuck beans or leather-britches whichever you wanted to. Mrs. Thomas: And kraut too. Mr. Thomas: And the, we'd do our kraut that a way. We'd kraut this-- take our cabbage and we'd kraut it up. It'll, it'll stay forever you know--pickled beans and kraut'll just last right on. Well, you put this kraut in the big barrel and you put your pickled beans in the big barreI -you know, to keep. But this day and time though--this modern time me and mom's got into now, we can all this .t-~,,_. stuff. (laughter) 25 26 And put it in the deep fl'eeze. \'/hat about this junk I Tain't half as good as the other I Ri.chards: 1 can remember canning and so forth. My mother canned, but 1 had never heard of pickled beans. 1 had heard of the leather .. Mr. Thomas: Cut that off just a minute. (Talking about the recorder) Richards: No, I'm not going to do it because we're talking on this tape and that's just fine. (laughter) Richards: Well what are leather--leather-britch Mr. Thomas: Leather-britches beans. You don't understand that? Now that's green beans. You break em up just like you'u\!. goin' to can em--if you know what we're-_er cook em. If you'uz g01.n' to cook em and they'd break em up you see. Well uh Mrs. Thomas: Dry em in the sun. Mr. Thomas: \-le'd break them up and put em out in the sun and dry em. Ohl that's the best bean you ever see. You want--you want to put some good fatback in that. I'm talkin' about good 27 fat meat. If you ain't got it, borry some like I did my brother. (laughter) Mrs. Thomas: Ah, don't tell that old joke. Mr. Thomas: All right__that's what she wants. Uh--I--we use to have a piece of meat you know. We'd cook our beans in it today with it--today. Then we'd dry it and cook it tomorrow. (laughter) So I loaned it to the brother and he cooked some doggone blackberries with it and ruined itl (laughter) Mrs. Thomas: Oh, what a tale. Richards: That's just fine. He're just talking and we're just going to let it run and that's just eJmctly what they want. (laughter) Mr. Thomas: Well, these here dried Mrs. Thomas: Well did you ever eat any pickled corn? Richards: Pickled corn? No, I've never heard of it. }jr. Thomas: ~[e 've got plenty of pickled corn right now. Mrs. Thomas: I'll give you a can if you'll--let you try it. Richards: I'd love to. Mr. Thomas: And this is-_we're gone a give you a can of pickled beans and a can of pickled corn. Huh? Will tbat be all right? Richards: \ve11 I'd love to try it. Mr. Thomas: We're gone do that and let you see what we're talkin' bout. They' s lot of people in this day and time honey if you remember__they's lot of people now that don't know a thing in this world about such as that. And I think--course ever ole person feels this way. I 'f';;e1 like the wonderfullest days we ever had's done gone. They've past. I feel that way-_I'm honest about it. Richards: I can understand exactly how you feel. when you pickled the beans did you--you just pickled like you would cucumbers? In Mr. 'fhomas: No, you--you put up your beans. You--you break these beans lIP and cook em and, course ll\Y wife USe to she 28 29 didn't cook em hardly as much as I like. Now, she likes em firm and hard when they're pickled. But I Kt'ndGL don't. I like em A lshy. And you--you put them in with plenty of salt-_I__you'd have that salt to use. My wife can give you the recipe on that if you want to. Anyway, she'd put them up in salt and they'd sour. In three or four days, why you got pickled beans__got kraut; three or four days you got the best, I think, of anything that's ever been eat--be honest with you. Oh, it's delicious. That stuff's really good. Yes it isl Richards: That is really something.,.You were saying that you built this house ,you're li~ing in Mr. Thomas. Mr. Thom'l,s: Yes. Well the first house I ever built. I built a little boxed house for me and nw mother Dnd nw two sisters fore we'uz either one married. And, uh, so, I got a job at the Young Harrls College as I __as I told you back of this, and I ~lorked there fourteen years and I quit that and went to sawmillin'. So I buHt__I built me a house later over on what they call Upper Plottown Road__uh__it wuz-_it'uz weather board and seal__somethin' that'u," special you know. Wasn't any the rest of em in the country at that time. I'uz the first. So I sold it. They got to wantin' thls 30 tV1lLt house so bad-_the people did--~:r sold it and built me another one down the street a little bit lower than that. \1e11 , they wanted it and I sold it. Vlell, finally I built me another one--and they wanted itt \1e11 I went to tradin' on in peal estate--I--I'm, tradin' on in real estate--lots. I've owned practic'ly a fourth of this land through our country here might near at times__one time to another. \1e11 then__I kept sellin '--buyin' and sellin'. I decided at last me and my \;ife'uz gittin' old--I'd better build sum'in we'd stay in. So I'd never laid a rock in my life and 'lIe uh--building or anything. Well, I started on my house here. I went to layin' these rock by myself. Well, the childrun come along after I got one side put up--three foot high. I said: "Well, what do you think about it childrun?" They said: "Couldn't be beat! I don't care what rock mason you'd find,couldn't beat thatl" Richards: And you never had done it before? Mr. Thomas: I never did this before. This wuz my first. Well, I decided if they bragged on it and sure wuz all right. I didn't like it so well. (laughter) )1 Anyway, I finished the house__went all around it, fiftytwo feet long__the house is. So I built--put the rock work up all the way round. Well I ordered my brick and uh, I says: "I can put them brick up, but--I 'd--.I 'd be so slo.;--we needed it a 1ittle quicker than that", so I hard me a man and gav~ im a contract to put the brick up, but the rest of the work now--most all the work.,-l did it myself. 1 know Professor Toller from Young Harris__ Professor from Young Harris College down there passed-we'uz well acquainted. I'd knew im about all my life, and he said "Paul, who's goin' to be helpin' you build your house?" I says: "I'm gone a buDd your--it myself". And he says: "Take a long time won't it?" And I says: "Professor, it tuk ole Noahy a long time to build the ark and he finally got itl" (laughter) (Mrs. Thomas handed me a jar of pickled beans and pickled corn.) Richards: Thank youl Mrs. Thomas: And uh. Richards: You cook these in water wUh ub Mr. Thon~s: You fry em--you just 32 !'fIT's. Thomas: No. now you just. you know. put your margarine or either Richards: grease? Mrs. Thomas: Grease and put em j.n the pan and fry em. Richards: Well I Mr. Thomas: Both the same way. Mrs. Thonms: Both the same ,,ray. That I s the way you fix em. I'll put em in a .. Hr.. Thomas: Sorl~Y Mom...... (Aside to Mrs. Thomas) END OF TAPE; APPENDIX 33 PHOT'OGHAPRS The Thomas Home PHOTOGRAPHS 34 The Thomas Home 35 INTERIOR OF THOMAS HOME 3.5 Map Showing Location of Young Harris, Georgia, from Atlanta 36 ADDRESSES Hr. Paul L. Thomas Route Two Blairsville, Georgia Am1 Vaughan Richards Apartment 155. Building 17 251 Tenth street, N.W. Atlanta. Georgia 30318 Permanent home address: Ann Vaughan Ri.chards c/o Mr. Charles Vaughan Route One, Box 64 Elba, Alabama 37 Thank Is /L'I'j ra_ber laler ard this SSI1 undar'at,a!'1d rnatsrial ntH pTlllbably !'181lla bl be )8 addrasa g O_j0-, is<; - {l!L,#flJ' I? ,~5' I - i 0 Y-Iv ~, 'I), tD, TJ- h- fHII rtl ,O:rlt. ~ 0 <9/J' A PDF transcript exists for this recording. Please contact an archivist for access. Professor John Burrison founded the Atlanta Folklore Archive Project in 1967 at Georgia State University. He trained undergraduates and graduate students enrolled in his folklore curriculum to conduct oral history interviews. Students interviewed men, women, and children of various demographics in Georgia and across the southeast on crafts, storytelling, music, religion, rural life, and traditions. As archivists, we acknowledge our role as stewards of information, which places us inaposition to choose how individuals and organizations are represented and described in our archives. 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