Vicky Brantley interview with Frances Sathers and Frank Ensley

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If you believe you are the copyright holder of any of the content published in this collection and do not want it publicly available, please contact the Kenan Research Center at the Atlanta History Center at 404-814-4040 or reference@atlantahistorycenter.com. This recording begins with Frances Etta Ensley Sathers singing Bury Me Under the Willow and Home Sweet Home. Sathers discusses learning to play the banjo in her childhood, then she sings the first tune she learned, Goin Down to Town. Sathers also retells stories her parents told her as a child, including one about a panther that antagonized her parents first home, causing her mother to live with Sathers grandparents for three months. Next, Sathers recalls a few stories from her parents who lived in North Carolina about witch doctors curing bewitched victims. She discusses her mothers family, including her maternal grandfather who fought and died in the Civil War, and their migration from North Carolina to Georgia. Only two of Sanders ten siblings survived, including the other interviewee, Frank Ensley. She then sings Barbara Allen'' and Jealous Lover. Returning to tales about her family, she talks about her mother and grandmother making candles from sheep lard. Sanders also recalled her mother telling her about food shortage during the Civil War; they only survived because of Sathers great-grandmothers corn mill. She sings one last unnamed song about wandering around the Western United States. At minute 41:03, Frank Ensley tunes his banjo then plays Red Wing. He talks about learning to play the banjo as a teenager, how playing has evolved over the years (specifically picking technique), and about the composition of a homemade banjo. There is a pause in the recording. At minute 49:59 the recording resumes with Ensley playing Log Cabin in the Lane, Bonaparte, Under the Double Eagle, Chattanooga Blues, Cripl Creek, and Spanish Two Step. His wife, Elizabeth Lois Long, provides commentary between songs. Next, Ensley describes a haunted barn where a local boy killed his grandfather with a stick. He says that he doesnt believe in ghosts or truth-telling dreams, but he recognizes that sometimes unbelievable things happen without explanation. He then recalls hunting stories, tall tales, and ghost that he learned as a child, including a story about a snake rolled up into a hoop that tried to attack his father. Ensley recalls additional stories, including one about a woman who killed a pen of hogs, and one about an uncle who ran away to the woods but left behind chewed sticks that allowed his searchers to find him. At the end of the recording, he tells a tale about his hypnotist brother-in-law. Frank Ensley (1902-1985) was born in Georgia to Samuel Bailey Ensley (1856-1932) and Elizabeth Lois Long (1857-1943). He married Verdie Duckworth (1908-2001), and they had five children: James C. Ensley (1924-2007), Willa Bel Caylor (1925-2013), Mildred Ensley Haigler (1930-2007), Robert Franklin Ensley (1932-2015), and Franklin McKinley Ensley (1945-2020). Frances Etta Sathers (1894-1970) was born in Georgia. She married James Hayes Souther (1888-1981); they did not have children. Family history; Brantley: This is ah Mrs. Frances Etta Sathers, and she's going to sirigsome songs for us and ah tell us some stories. 4 Sathers: I'll sing another'n ur two if I ain't forgot whut they WUI. ,My-ah heart is bro-ah-ken I'.-im in Borrow Weeping for the one I luv Tell him if I never see him To-oo meet me in heav'n abuv 6o-oh berrah me bene-eth the willow Ne-eeth that weepin willow tree When he knows that I am sleeping Then-en perhaps ne'll weep for me. To-oo-morrow wuz our we-ehding day But where-ere 1s he God onry knows He'. gone from me to luv sum uhther Fo~orhe never did luv me. Oh-oh berrah me bene-eeth the willow Ne-eeth that weepin willow tree Wnen he knows that I am sleepin Then-en perhaps he'll weep for me. 5 Ther-ere's changes in thee oh-ohshun's waves There-ere's changes in-en thee sea There-ere's changes in that yung man's hart Yuill fin-und no change in-en me. But-ut berrah me bene-eeth the willow Ne-eeth that weepin willow tree When he knows that I am sleepin Then perhaps he'll weep for me. 1 Sathersl: It's anutherversa to that I tQink Brantley: What's the name of that one.,Mrs. Sathers? Sathers: Uh Bury me beneath the willow, Brantley: Well, thatts real pretty. Where did you learn that song. Mrs. Bathers? Sathers: My sistur that lived in Knoxville, Tennessee twenty-five yeer and she knew that yeers ago and I learnt it from her. Debra Mae Bell EllSrey. Brantley: Can you remember another song? Bathers: Yes, I guess maybe I can. I use to know some Westurn songs, le'ss se,. ~kiP sixty-four revolutions at 7~ 1 This song is included in fhe Frank C. Brown Collection of North Carolina Folklore as fo~song number 2b7, in VOlume III, page 314, "The Weeping Willow~M For the musical notation of this song see page ~ 6 Out on thee westurn ranch one nalght There meet a press-gang crew Whlle one sed to al-nother, Jack Thls 1ettur came fo~or you. I supo-ose Its from some Bweethart boys Sed one among the crowd. Wlth 1aff and jess they gathured around And Jack replled ah-loud. It's onlee ~ messuge from home sweet home Frum lo-ahved ones down on-un the farm Fond wlfe and mothur, slstur and bruthur A-prayln to guard me frum harm Thee babee Is 11splng ah prayer tonalght To bless me wherever I roam Welell welcome you Jack, uf you'll only come back It's a messuge frum home sweet home. I'm go-ohing boys goodnlght sed Jack I know yutll undurstand. And one by one hls comr~des came And shUk him by-ah thee hand. Sed one If we haa homes 11ke that We'd all be bettur men And now before you gojuss read That lettur once agane. 7 It's only a messuge from home sweet home Frum loved ones down on theerarm Fond wife and mathur, sistur and bruthur A'prayin to guard me from harm. The babee is lispring~ prayer to-naight To bless me wherever I roam We'll welcome you Jack if yuill only cum back It's a messuge frum home sweet home. 2 Brantley: Oh, that's good. What do you call that? Bathers: Jus a lil westurn song. Brantley: Where did you learn that? Bathers: I learnt that I guess its been forty yeers ago. My sistur I think is the one that seJme that song and I learnt it. And I used to play it on the banter. Chord it, you know, on the banger, back there Brantley: Tell me again how did you learn to play the banjo? Bathers: Well, I jist picked it up I wadnit over seven yeer old. See my bruthurs, you know, would go in the kitchen to eat, you know, and then -I'd slip the banger offen the bed, don't yUh see and it tuk me quite a while though to learn how to pick double, don't yuh see. See I'sPickin it plain. "Gain down tuh town"'wuz my furst 11ttle song, 2 For the musical notation of this song see page 41 8 And 1)8 just about seven yeers old. I kept on tho, on an on with it. I know that there song. I slip an git thet ole banjuh off the bed when they'd be a'eatin dinner. I know if my mothur hered it she'd make me put it down. So (laugh) but I wuz so anxious to lurn to play that banjer, don't yuh see. And anyway I'll listen tuh my two bruthurs you know pickin the little jigs you know way back then. Anyway: Somebody stole myoId coon dog I wish they'd brang him back Run the big hogs oh the fence An the little ones 'thru the crack Gettln on down to town Gettin on down to town .' Gettin on down to Linburg town To see my quartur down Pay my quarter down. Sathers: That's been a long time ago, I tell you, since I learnt sum uh them 01' things~ (Laugh) Brantley: Did you say you played' the fiddle too? Bathers: No, I dun't play the fiddle, you know, I play the banguh you know with the gitar and the fiddle. Brantley: Oh I see. Bathers: Be two more you know playing. I use to do that all raight yeah. I use to, we's yung, if it wuz me I use to I cud play, yuh know good with the gitar a~ the fiddle. But for the late yeers I just can't hardly do 9 Now my sistur il'l Caleefornee she sent me this banjer tIIllt I have here but its a longer neck on it than I's ever use to havin', you know, it's heavy banger, it's a fine un she she give high price fer that banger an she sed she bought her a little ukelaylee sed she didn't guess she'd ever learn to play it (Laugh) an uh she had suh much on er tuh do two 01 ladies out there to see aftur an this an that1r'm just going send it to you Etta" so send it she did. I ain't had it very long. But I hardly ever pick it up. Then my grand daughter there she broke the bridge on it an I jist hadn't got ne'er nother'n fixed you know. I ain't forgot um, sum of um. But I've had arthritus' so long in this arm an shoulder, you know it hurts me to hold thet heavy banjer uP. Now if I t:. had one thet wadn't so heavy. Now this hyere Troy Bamson up here he has one thet I like very much. It's not suh long, neck ain't an it's not as heavy you know. Course I cud swap it. He'd .wawit in a minute, I guess. 3 Brantley: You said you knew some stories that you're mother and daddy knew? Bathers: Well, yes I have her.ed um tell bout jist bear stories an er campin stories an things like that. 3 . I offered to borrow a banjo for her to play but she persistently refused. , Her brother told me later that she was not physically able to play now. ------------- -- Sathers: Now they sed when they wuz first married 10 fhf:'1 he wuz eighteen an she wuz seventeen. An uh they was expectin their first child you know later. An one evenin he'd been up, now they lived then in Jackson County, North Caroliner. My father wuz raised out there an she wuz partly raised right over here at Wood's Grove. She wuz raised an orfun. Well, he went yuh know in the woods that evenin to gathur him a little barh bark an stuff, yuh know, fer his IiI chimley, an the IiI chimley she sed wuz a stick an clay chimley an they had the one room house. Well, she sed thet naight they hered a racket up on ther IiI house an that panthur,hed followed him down frum the field, yUh see, an had got up on that 111 house an wuz fixin to cum down the'chimley. An she sed that he'd burnt up all his good bark and stufr th~t he'd gathured up, yuh know, to bu11d his farh out of the next mornin. That night it smoked back up. Well he sed hit wuz a mile to the nearest neightbor's house Bill Mathis, I hered him tell it yeers ago,an he sed he hollered at him, yUh ~.ru"t~ know but of course hit wuz suhfar see he cudn't hear it. An they tukm 11 t a big pine torch an they went to Bill Mathises'. after dark. And she sed of course both of em wuz you know sceered to death for feer that this panthur wuz behind em don't yUh see. Well he got down there to Bill's an he told him about hit. And they gathured up a crowd the next mornin but hit had rained thet night 11 And went back up there you know to see if they cud Bee tracks but the rain see had rained out those tracks. Well, they didn't see no sigh of the panthur. And she went on down to my Grandfather Ensley's and stayed. It wuz three munts 'for she ever got to go back home . 4 (In a whisper:) The three munts she wuz carrin Scared them to death yuh know it was three munts for she ever got back. Sathers: And then these hyers, I guess yuh call it hypnuhtism, well anyway use to be my parence sed in North Caroliner a lot of witches witchcraft. An she sed there wuz a woman lived there pretty now my mother didn't know then~'t1"h,1a1 t"'''''t'''his at the time. But anyway, I'm getting close to them woman wuz a witch (I r,;' t r.',JA IL. aheadtlof that one I started to tell, I've heard suh many. But anyway right in the spring of the year there wuz a yung girl out there got sick an she cuduntall she wanted to eat wuz little green apples an you cudn't hardly get the apples you know that time of the year in early spring , yuh know. And uh she had they's a man yuh know this girl and that's what she.wanted to put a l) eat. spell on But my mother sed they had witchdoctors back there in them days. An they sent for the witchdoctor an he cU!D an he tuk t, 4 My husband was present during this story. She leaned over and whispered this to me' so that he would not hear her. 5 Motif D.1337.1.1 Magic spell gives weakness Stith Thompson, Motif-Index of Folk Literature (Indiana: Indiana Unlversity Press, 1950)-volume II. 12 the spell offuh the girl an puts it back on the one that pu~ it on the girl. see. They sed when they found him they found him with his feet right straight up a tree an he'd (laugh) been a'makin whiskey an his feet wuz right straight up a tree an his head wuz. yuh know. hittin the ground With his arms an sed he wuz Jest a'sayin. 'Lordy t 6 cum down Lordy cum downYeah. he tuk the spell offa the girl. don't yuh see. this here witchdoctor did an them witchdoctors done it too back in them days back When my parents wuz married. An then another lil ole witch woman thet Just lived? my Daddy sed then oh Jest a 1il way from each other. This hyere witch did. and uh another one of the neighbors there had two fine hogs in the pen an this Witch woman She cum over. She wanted to see the hogs too. yuh know. So she stopped by the hog pen on the way back. my daddy sed. over to her house not far from hisenthen. An sed they cud see her lips they might move. yUh know. course they never thought nothing him an another man too wuz there too lookin at the hogs. Well, hogs got sick.' She had put a spell on th~8 hog, _.two, or 'um.7 An the witchdoctor told them to cut 01'1' the right foot of one of the hoge an that would put it back on her and shore nuff it did. And Ma sed one of her children cum a'runnin over to her house. 6 . Motif D 1783.1 Magic results of reversing a spell. Thompson. Motif-Index. Volume II. 7Motir G 265.4.1 W~h causes death of animals. Thompson. Motif-Index. Volume III. -----_..- 13 their house and wanted to borrow Bome f~ an she sed that my daddy sed'whatdo you want with fahr,t sez t there's smoke in yer chimley1 t Well she sed that "Mammy had 8 scalded her knee offen her leg from here down.(She motions with hand to indicate where the leg was burned). (Pause) Yeah, it wuz a sight to hear them tell the things that use to happen back there in North Calina. An another woman out there went to another neighbors house an she didn't know that this here neighbor was a witch. An she wanted a few the beans to plant. See, beans, it wuz in the spring of the yeer. An this here w1tch woman, she Jest give the other woman, yuh know, three beans of a k1nd~ An that woman sed she cudn't keep from eat1n those beans to save ~ 11fe. See this woman, this ole Witch woman had put a spell on the beans and she eat them beans an,she just g1ve her three of a k1nd)an She'd eat them beans an she got home she drapped one, yuh know through the floor an she sed she tore the plank up, yUh know and got that'un an eat 1t. An she liked to a d1ed. Yeah (la~h). It's awful, things they use to do yeers ago mN.Carolina, back there when my parence wuz yung. It's been a long t1me ago. (Laugh). Brantley: Go ahead. Tell us some more. (Pause) 8Mot1f D 702.1.2 Hog's fore foot cut off; woman's hand miss1ng. Thompson, Mot1f-Index, Volume II. 9Motif D. 1273.1.1 Three as magic number Thompson, Motif-IndeL, Voiume II. 14 Sathers: Now I,tlre heered them tell it, now, and I know they told the-truth. Back in their days, yuh know, yung daye Witchcraft. yUh see, ole witches. But if they happened to have IiI ole witoh doctors, yuh see, they oud take these spells offen put it baok on the one who dun it. Yes, I eben rememmr one of um's na~e, Doctor Brantley. Witchdoctors Well anothern un she told his name too they lived neigh oors by him out there in Jackson. County an they had a girl that she had hadhydrafobia, she got biten yUh know by a mad dog an she craved.~.poke root. You know that's poison to eat. I've alays heard that. An her Daddy wuz afraid, yuh see to give her this poke root, fraid i~ wud,.yuh know, kill her;when she'd have these spells on her why that's whut she'd want and tell em to get for her. An so the doctor say she's goin die anywaysso he say get her the poke root and, he got the poke root and she got well. I've always heered it took poison to kill 10 poison. An then my brother Frank Ensley that lives back over here, he got this here three-leave p~on on him once off of that and well he'd heered our parence tell things an - he sed he got some of the same leaf that he got poisoned II .,. on an eat that an it cured him. Yes sir..yeah 10Ven~ for-doth venym. Piers the Plowman, William Langland (1377) The Home Book Of Proverbs, Maximx and Familiar Phrases:-Belected by BUrton Stevenson,(Ne;-Yor~: The Macmillan Company. 1948). page 1825. l~h1te" North Carolina, Volume VI Superstition 1945, page 251. 15 Sathers: Well my mother was a Long. Gillet Long wuz my grandfather an there wuz three of the children and her daddy got killed in the Civil War an they wuz raised up by their grandparents over here in Woods Grove. The Johnsons and the Longs in North Caroliner. That's where she wuz. An my daddy wuz an Ensley, John Ensley's son. ,It". t:iU.L<' Course ther"lived allover the state of Georgia an the west an everywhere else, yUh know an we're related to them. Brantley: When did they come down to Georgia? Sathers: Well they moved to Georgia first,he left Jackson County, that was several years before I wuz born an I'm seventy-three. In the Ivy Log Community an he run the mill there. Well he got dis~tisfied an wanted to go back to North Caroliner. my father did, well he went back, my fa+r did that wuz several yeers before I wuz born. We-II, J..,. ~~ Well he got dissatisfied agen out there so back he cum , ,II. yUh know to Georgia. Well he bout a home that time So he stayed an I wuz raised right here in Union County. There wuz eleven of us chilren now they're all dead but us three last children an my youngest sistur she lives in Upton, Caleeforn~.~. But my bruthur, my only bruthur, my baby bruthur, he lives back over here twixt here an Blairsville in a trailer. Brantley: Does he play a banjo? Sathers: Oh yes, he has a good un too. Oh yes, he plays the banjah. He had a bad heart attack here bout three munts ago. He did, he lived down there at Marietta and the doctor told him git up in here, yuh know where it'd be 16 yuh know, quleter when he dld he owned a home over here. He owned two home, yuh know. Yeah he's got a good banjer Yeah he plays an he's a good han too Frank Ensley ls hls name he's the baby one ln the famlly. Brantley: Slng"Barbara Allerl' for me. Sathers: (laugh) O.K. lf I can. It was t day ln thee month uhf May And thee green buds they were-a swellinj In a lovely yard two-uh lovers quarreled At the home uhf Barbree Allun. Next day ~ note to-uh Barbree came It said my luv r'm dl-ylng Oh, wl11 you come ana pardon brang? Has-en Barbree Allun. But slowly, slow-lee she-e got up And slowlee she went to hlm And all she sa-ed when she got thair I thank yung man you're dl-ying. Oh, ye-es I'm slc-lck and v, ery sick Wlth tUv" my-a heart is bre-aching And I can ne-ver bettur be . till I win Barbree Allun. She hadn't got-ut but-a mile from town Tl11 sh'heard hls dea-eth bell a'rlngln , 17 She looked to thuh East, she looked to thuh West She saw his corpse a'com-men. Come lay him down that corpse uhf clay And let me look uh-upon him Sayin you will never bettur be You'll not win Barbree Allun.12 Sathers: 1 'm so nervous. Brantley: That's all right. Can you think of another one? Dow-un, down in a long lone valley Whare thuh violets earilee bloom Tharesleeps one gentul Annee In her cold and silunt tomb. ~hee diea not bro-o-ken--hearted Of-uf sickness or distress But-ut in one ins-stunt moment By the one-un that shee luved best. Ni-ights when the moon shone brightlee And erley fell thee dew Dow-un to this lone little valley This jel-loua luver flew. Come-um luv and let us wanctur O're the meadows far away l2Child Ballad Number 84. She learned this from her mother. Come luv and le-et us pondur On our hap?py wed-a-ding day. O-uh Edward I am wearee And I do not care to roam For roaming see-ems so drer-ry O-uh Edward ta-ake me home. u-up steps this Jealous luver With a angry solum vow No-o mortal hands can save you Thi-is moment you must die. Dow-un on her knees oerore him Shee humbly begged for life But in her sno-ow white busom He plungea a tatle knife. O_uh Edward I 'II t'orglve you She said with her last breath For you know I never deceve you Then sne closed her eyes in death. ije-e sighea not when he pressed her To his yung and Jealous heart He wept not when he-e left her For he knew that they mu-ust part. Yun-ung Ed was taken'prison And placed in the county Jail 18 19 To await there for some oonasmen To-o come and go his bail. Thee jury found hi-im gUilty Thee judge made this reply For the' murder of Gentul Annie You-u are condemnea to-o die.13 Brantley: What's toe name of that one? Sathers: "Jealous Lover" I'm so nervous I can't sing. I love to sing when I can when I feel like when I don't forget half of it. I learnt that yers ago. lrac~ically all I know is wha~ you'd say old, old-timee, love songs. And I did know another western song or two. I picked one one time a tune, le.t s see, for my mother, on the banjer ana sung it but They never WOUld allow us kids to playa banjer on Sunday--that was one thing they wouldn't do. (laugh) I finally learnt this song, if I haven't forgotten it. Brantley:" Well while you're thinking of that, you mentioned a while ago that you said your mother and grandmother made their own candles. Bathers:: 0 yeas they did. They made their own canles. Brantley: How'd they do that? 13G. Malcolm Laws, Native American Balladry (lhiladelphia: The American Folklore Society, 1964). Murder Ballad F 1. Also White, North Carolina, Volume IV, Ballad Number 250, p. 291. 20 Bathers: They took taIlor, they took taIlor, you know, they'd kl11 sheep, you know, and take all thls here lard out of the sheep you know taIlor, you know that's what they made lt wlth. Yea, they made thelr homemade canels. And I herd her talk about lt lots, she sald when these yer 11ttle small little brass lamps, you know, then, you know, come in them small 11ttle brass lamps and she sald qullting or anythlng you could set them, which I have seen myself. (my mother used to have some of urn) set these 11ttle lamps you know on the quilt you know when I'd be a quilting out here. These little lamps made out of brass. They was real cute. And then she said whenever you got,you know, to getting them bigger lamps, well people thought they was rlch then. But they used their canels. Yeah and they made urn too, ,they made their own , . years ago. My grandfather Ensley, I've he-rd my father say he'd .. . go from Jackson County, North Carollna to Augustl, Georgi, by a wagon and team. It'd take-urn slx weeks to go. Three to go and three to come back, but he'd take a load, you know, of produce and they had to go down there then to get there then salt, you know, to salt meat. They had to go after it had to go clear to Augusti, Georgl, from Jackson County, North Carollna. And my mother said durlng the Clvil War she .remembered it and uh she stayed wlth her Granny, Granny Long, and she sald her grandmother 21 owned a little grist mill, corn mill and she said she guessed if it hadn't been for that you know, they'd a starved to death. Said they'd be a little supply wagon come around maybe oncet a week, you know, you know, with just a few supplies. That was a way back then, you see-back Civil War and they didn't have stUff then like they have now of course, and she said they'd starved to death she guessed it haddened been for that. ~kiP thirty revolutions at 7t] Sathers: Old Western song, sho-nuff if I can remember it. My native's home's in Georgee And I've ,been in Tennessee Farewell true friends and loved-ones And all that's dear to me. I'm a'living now in Texas I'm struck on this black land H;red out my motley wages And earning what I-uh can The day I-uh left my mother She begged me not to go My mind was bent on rambling I was bound for Mexaco. Thee reDson Why I left her Because I thought it best But now I am a rambler Out in the distunt west. 1w>J. ' I j ttJ7v" "J~" .' .~ J-.ft'- 22 / ./ / / No matter whare I go My soul must pass away. WhIle lIvIng here In Texas But I'll remember Mother And to-uh my dear ole father I have a word to say Ellt flowers on my grave. ! i Where I spent my happest days \~ '. ...... Back whare my dear ole mother'n ( '\ ~ \ ) / Carry me back to Georgee I've been In Mexaco I've been allover Texas // carry me back to~ Husband: Got her at slngIn? And to my dear ole father I have a word to say Wh11e 11vIng here 1n Texas My soul must pass away Carry me back to Georgee Whare I spent my happest days Back whare my dear ole mother'n > Put flo~ers on my grave. Wh11e In Mount ZIon's church yard A.llfeless corpse I'11e Farewell true frIends and loved ones Repent before you d1e. But carry me back to Georgee Where I spent my happest days Back whare my dear ole mother'n Put flowers on my srave.14 Brantley: Oh, I 11ke that. Mr. Sathers: You ever heerd that before? Brantley: No, I haven't. Mrs. Sathers:: It's l1ke I tell you. Thare all oldt1mers. (laugh) . .. l4She learned th1s from her mother. 23 24 Mr. Frank Ensley: "Red Wing" [BanjO tun~ I just can't get um in there right. Brantley: How did you learn to play the banjo? Ensley: Well when I's bout sixteen or seventeen year old I's working with my brother bulldin' a house for fellow, Conder Waycaster, out from Olive Springs, and I had ah brother that was buildin a house. I was helpin him an he'superintendent bout three miles away I had a sistur that, an older s1stur, that had an old homemade banger and juss between the two houses there's a pine thicket trailway, pathway, through there. I got this old banjQ. It had a goat skin head in 1t an I'd get over there in Ithfaitncp1altehewkayindana huh1ttrayt ..Ntoel1fi1nedGarayt"unthe aIt wcouzuldthseifn1grasnt uunh that I could ever play where you could even tell what I wuz play1n an so from there on it juss come pretty natural. I use to play' with along with .bout the best. Course that wuz way back in the old timey days, yuh know, Dave Makland, things like that kinda like Grandpa Jones now but I seen the time I could beat um both easy enough but not anymore cause you get out of fer eight to ten years time and maybe pick up a,b~jer bout three or four times you know then five or six years longer juas a few times then lay it 'up again, 'well soon gets away from you. Then another thing playing by your self well you don't have anything to back it up. Thet mak~it still harder if you 25 got somethlng 11ke a flddle ~r a harp er anythlng to play a lead well its pretty easy to play one then anyway, but you :run across a pI ace whur'i1!s a 11ttle bltrough jUss play the rhythm on it. That's the way most all of um do it now. Brantley: You think banjo playing has changed? Ensley: Oh, definitely. Brantley: How is lt changed? Ensley: Well uh we use to play you had lf I could use that you know by bringing your thumb down like that don't yUh see but now they play with a two or three fingers down here see. I really like it a lot better but uh, if a man can what they use to call double ~oughting on this you can see an use there thumb down there on these thlngs why it was quite a lot different. Brantley: Can you show me that way? Ensley: See you see yone thumb more down there. '1lese others don't use their thumb except on the thumb string then they use these ot~er fingers down here an uh you can play a better rh~thm that wayan uh than yuh can the ole time way cause most of um have a tende~ tttk take short cuts places an dwell a lill too long places an things like that, yuh know. Especially those that jUss played for their own amusement, yu~ know an by their self. Until. until I got started on 'that 1111 ole home-made banjer I never had heard but two banjers fact I hadn't Been them. They wuz mostly ole homemade bangers. 26 Brantley: What were the homemade ones made out of? Ensley: Well some of um wuz made uh just tuk a piece of wood cut it out round like that an uh an make this neck fit it on there but there wadn't any frets on it an they juss drilled these holes through there or burn um throo I've seen um bern it throo with a hot iron an then make the pegs yuh know to go in there an uh homemade pegs an tt1s head down here they'd get juss piece of baord then they's cut out a hole about three -or four ainches in the middle uh that cut it out round an uh I had to whittul that they didn't have anything then yuh know like a spats and bits yUh know then they take or the back side uh that an t~ake a squirrel skin that's tanned an they'~ soa~ it in warm water tuh get it real pliant an they'd tack it on the back side a little bit loose then they'd make um a hOOp an just come togethur frum the back side an start it right in over this hitch see. I can juss keep pressing it on up an it cum up level. Then tack it in there to hold it then they'd git somethin like an olSI cheese h.op or sumpin nother to make this part or the banjer an it wuz amazing how sum of those 'ould sound. They wouldn't even they didn't have a lot of volume like ah lots of these other banjers have anymore. They wouldn't have either if they didn't have those steel picks. ~nd of Side on~ 27 Brantley: What's the Name of this one? Ensley; Uh, "Log Cabin in the Lane" 15 [nstrumental. Banjo Tun~ Ensley: Let's try that one over Brantley; O.K. Go ahead just start over. Ensley: I think I'd better juss pay you fer thet piece. I sung one while ago I use to sing a IiI bit, "Bonaparte" ~ Yuh ever heered it? Brantley.: I've heard of it but I haven't heard it. [}nstrumental, Banjo tun~ Ensley: They ~iS finger~ juss won't work. Brantley: That sounds real good. Ensley: "Under the Double Eagle" that's real old. Brantley: Play that. ~nstrumental, Ban~o tun~ Brantley: Where dia you learn that? What's it aoout? Ensley: That's uh it's actually an ole army song, Civi~ war. It's called "Under the Double Eagle". (pause) Has the bugle call, starts ofr wl~n it (Plays repeat of ., the bugle call). I don't think I can play that Lill Brown .. Jug. (His wife was wnlspering to him in the backgroun~ Ensley: Le'ss see here's uh. uh "Chattanooga Blues" That's not a real 01 un. Uh? ~rs. Ensiey: She's wantin reai old ones. 15 Mr. Ensiey could not remember specifically where he ~earned any of the banjo tunes he played.: same he heard, some his brothers and sisters taugnt hl~, some his mother and daddy sang and he picked them out on the banjo. Ensley: Uh, this is about as 01 as Chattanooga (Laugh) (}nstrumental, Banjo Tuni1 Ensley: I'm sorry but I believe that's just about all I can do. Brantley: Is there a name for the way you pick it. Do you call that something( Ensley: Well that's juss uh, juss the ole timey way people use to play the banjer long time .. Wife: A or B or sumpin like that Ensley: N'~ that's that's the key you're playin in. There's diffrunt now on this tune here ther's one (demonstrates chords) that's juss straight G there, then you got D You But can get about all of um on there. Then you got a tvlt!(M(<J most all of um that plays a banjerAwny they have a clamp they put on there. They play um all the same way you know but I like they wanted to play in ~ they put the clamp on right there you see. (demonstrates) Then play the same way yUh see play on down her an then if yuh want to play in D you go on down to thet one I'd rather get my A there then on like that then there's minor Brantley: When you learned these did you just hear the songs and pick um out or? Ensley: No I learnt the songs an knew the tunes an things yuh know then I juss kinda worked um out myself. After yuh once get started why then it juss cums to ~Uh juss as natural as listening an uh I use to, anything I cud hUll 29 Ensley: I cud play. Mrs. Ensley: Play her a little bit of"Crip'l Creekll16 [Instrumental, Banjo Tuni] IlSpanish Two Stepll ~Instrumental,BanjO Tune:f Ensley: That's a pretty hard one to play. Wife: Did you tell her the name of that? Ensley: Spanish Two Step Ensley: The huntin stories are uh pretty scarce that is anything unusual. But uh the ole ghost stories use to be theJabout all the convers~ion.Uh, these ole women, including my mother, uh would they'd get together an (aside to wife: "Get me a pack of cigarettes) talk an gossup all day an chew their tobaccah, dip their snuff yuh know tell all these all ghost stories an things like that. Brantley: Just any of um you remember Ensley: I wuz about his size yuh know they fascinated me but also I was kinda sceered too an most time it'd be at naight an I keep a scroochin up a lil closer to my mothur. sceered--but they cud tell some of the most unreasonable things an I reckon they actually believed it happened an possibly sum disillusioned or something or nother uh. I have had sum things. to happen yuh know that a man cud mske a real ghost story out of but I's always investigating l6In the Frank.C. Brown Collection; "The d~overyof precious metals at Cripple Creek, Colorada made a strong impression on the imagination of people in the East." 30 Ensley: things an find that aftur all it wuz surnthin very simple. Like for instance, an old house that's been torn down. For many yeers uh my great granrathur~. great-great granfathur lived there with his son and 'is son's son a younger one ub urn had ah famlee there an uh this one boy they claim an I reckon is true killed 'is granfathur out by an ole barn an they allays cl~imed thet placewuz haunted. An uh muh bruthur lived in that ole house a pretty good while an they heard suh many diffrunt kind uh weird noises an things till they wudn't live there anymore an nobody else wud live there. So they tore the ole house down an moved it out bout a h~ndred couple uh yards an uh build uh nother house littul diffrunt style out uh the same ole lumbur. But it diden change it any bout the noises things like that. An uh peope. use to cover their house with ole split bowards. I've made multiplied thousands of urn. And uh nail urn on yuh know they'd be maybe a loose splinter an the wind'ull blow under there an it'll vibrate an see boards on them ole houses surntimes do the same thing. An make all kinds ah noises. But I think that's whut they adully heard it's all this molding an things yuh know, be uh juss the wind circahlatin thru between these ole logs yUh know behin these bards they nail behin yUh know make ah diffrunt kinds uh sounds but the one that had urn sceered the most wuz uh they claimed that this uh boy killed his granCathur with ah stick an uh they cud allays heer uh tappin up or' 31 the ole barn. So th;y-jUSa tore it down dun away with that. But still it diden change the noise. An uh I'm satisfied it wuzunt anything a tall but uh most people then had lots uh big walnuts and they haul these walnuts an put um up in attics. Most of um had attics floored yUh know have a spare b~er two up there er sumthin. But that's where that's the kinda of place where my muthur kept her 01 spinnin ~eel an loom an she made all er clothes, knit er sweater, sock an evrything, girls clothes too: jeans an things of that sort. An uh they put these walnuts an things up there to uh dry. But I think that uh includin draggin chains across thuh floor an things. like that it wuzunt anything but flyin squirrels or rats up in thsse walrtuts see an un they rOll um round try An'uh carry one off an drop it. Cause I had one in ole en, my dad I cud barely remembur when he built it ah new house to an old house. He tore down ah log house an ther's ah frame hOUse built to it an it wuz mortar out an all the posts things all the studs yUh kn~w wuz dapped down in the sills an put in there with a~a uh pegs an uh in the attic part uh thatthey's uh stairway gain up there. I had uh lot uh walnuts up there dry one yeer. Found uh erow's nest, with three baby crows in it an uh diden have anywhere else to put um but up there and ~f~~they got grown they had on each side of the chimiey there uh two IiI ole wooden shutters that open. I kept thea open so they cud go in an out. An down at thuh spring house we had to carry watur frum the 32 spring an Ma keep her kraut an piaie beans an what have A yUh all down there. Barruls an churns an their milp an buttur down there too, no refrigeratur in them days. An sumun went with all muh walnuts. I guess there's a couple uh three bushuls. I cudun imagine whut in thuh world. This spring house it had uh overheaa rioor in it-kind of a attic yUh know An there's where I found my walnuts. These crows had carried everyone out.uh there an piled urn up down there in the in that place. I don't, I don't take much to these, in othur words, I don't oelieve in ghosts an things like that but still there is uh lot of things that uh happened uh is unoelievable. For ins~e at one time we had uh house covering. An people in the settulment com in put all these boards on. Well, I wuz in my teen an uh I had uh good hammar. I loan it some guy wuz nailin on bourds with uh hammar. So after they all left I cudun find my hammur. An I diden find it for about four five maybe six yeer. An's ole two-story house an over the porches on each side there's doors goin in there yuh know. I slept upstairs on one uh these ole timey corded bed steads. I don't guess yuh ever saw one. An uh, but anyhow that night I dreamed about my hammar an I hadun thought of it in yeers an where we'd put sum ole wainscoting aroun eq 33 of the porches where we'd notched um out yuh know well the ole house is still standin juss acros Track Rock there's been a lot uh stuff taken off uhf it. An where the boards had cum up to there wht I dreamed I found my hammar down in behin that. Well, furst thing when I got up that mornin wuz I juss went in there reached right over in there an got my hammur hit wuz in there. Back in thuh early thirties nothin tuh do I's runnin a gurage o're here in Young Harris. An uh I'd get. well the furst three weeks aftur I opened that up there I sold two.gallons of gas and uh a guy gimme twenty-five cent tip fer puttin his fan belt on an ahjustin it fer him. I got started, yuh know, made good at it. But on, it had ah ole porch an ah swing an that wuz headquarters for the loafurs. An, I's traded on guns an evrything like that. I got an ole bayahnet uh two an oh big kn~ves an pistul uh two ole shotguns an put a bunch of um up on the wall right over this bainch wrote uh big sign cross there: "Mad man, do not disturb" lay down on the bainch an went tuh sleep. (Laugh) Uh sum people pulled in there saw all that yuh know all these ole guns an knives thaings yuh know, that sign there me layin there sound asleep an they woke me up, yuh know laffin they told that all over thuh whole country yuh know, people'd cum along an , ask me bout it an uhBut I s layin on this bainch asleep one day. I didn't hav my sign up however, (Laugh) an I dreamed \lh guy pulled in, pushed in his car wudn't -----------------------------~ ----- 34 run an it wuz a Pllmuth. one them ole modul P~i~uth probably waqn't many uh them sole. then yuh know Plimuth's hadn't been out too long. And uh I uh raised the hood to see if I cud rind the trouble an I found it in thuh little wire that went tuh thuh distributor an the coil had cum loose an fell down. Course yUh cudn't go. An. but this guy drove in an woke me up well I got up an juss went out there he never sed ah word an I didun eithur I juss went out there same car I dreamed bout. I jus raised the hood on it an uh fassoned the wire oack up there yuh know jus exaFtly like I dreamea about it and let the hood down an said. "Istnere anything else I can do?" He says what have yu done. I-I says I fixed this spring. Try it. Well it cranked up an them people got away from there like they had been sceered to death-cudn't imagine, yuh know. jus to drive up and not to tell me anything uh; pushed in, just rolled,in there an a guy jus get up from a deep sleep and go out there an fix the carr without telling ' 1m anything at all about what was wrong with it, yUh know. Well, I'm telling you they left out uf town. (Laugh) They thought they'd found a witch for shore. (Laugh) and I uh I guess it was kina excited .~:bOdy a little bit. I do believe a lot in dreams uh I've solved several problems jus through dreams. What? Mrs. Ensley: You don't believe in my dreams. ~ 35 Mr. Ensley: I don't dream your dreams. Brantley: Tell me about some of your dreams. Mr. Ensley: Oh Lord there's no use on goin throo all that. Brantley: I'd like to hear about some of them. Ensley: Well, that, that's jUss an xampul uh but I have had qUite a few uh. I've gone to bed at naight an have somethin troublin me pretty much when I' ah wudn't know whut tuh do er I'd solve this problem whatever hit might be an I dream thet thing out thet naight hit wud be very simpul next day t'd go raight ahead an overcum my diffacuItee laut any trouble ahlt'all. That will work. Ah, I'll tell yUh other tnaings that will work . I, I guessed you uh noticed these uh Match Games an thaings on T. V. where they all name diffrunt itums, yUh know see yuh c'n .. git uh match. Well tell yuh c'n try Jus fold yUh up uh piece uh paper; wraite uh number on it Jiss put uh number an fold it up; don't let the other person see it. An then haY someone else tuh put tih number on it anything buhtween one number an uhnothur numbur an look straight at um don't bat yur eyes er anythaing an concentrate on that numbur with all 'the piower yuh go, .t. Keep lookin raight straight ~t um an nin-nee nine times out ufv uh hundred they'll put down the same number yUh had down there then unfold the paper an show it tuh um. It'll work. ) An nother thaing if yUh wana draw anyone's attention like if yur in uh audience sumpin laike that an they 36 sittin uh front of yuh Where yUh c'n see back of their head. Well jUss look raight straight at the back of their head juss concentrate on them turnin round an hit won't be no time till they'll turn raight roun and look straight at yuh. See there's a number of thaings like that'ull work. I practice that quite uh little bit, yuh know, jUss sperimentin but hit will work. What is it they call that uh there's ah name for it but I can't think uf it now. I've noticed in these match gaces there uf they git uh chance to hav it understood for one on thuh panel yuh know tuh uh put down his number an concentrate un that uhnuff why they cud win evry time, but they dun do it; they don't give it uh thought, yuh know, whut the others an they c'n cum up with sum uhf thuh oddest answers sumtimes that I ever saw--else I'm uh odd one. (Laugh). Ensley: Doc Thomasus huntin stories, I thaink his favorite, kinduh. He an his bruthur went out to this ole cabin, ole log cabin way back in the mounDuns, it's been abandoned yuh know, goin bear'-huntin. So Doc he decided he'd go out, went out tuh kill a few squirrels sumpin nothur an un havsumpin tuh eat suppur an prekfust. ~f 'is bruthur Paul at thuh cabin tuh fix up somthin tUh eat an uh- goin.bear huntinthuh next day. An so Doc gits way up on thuh ridge there an ah bear got aftur 37 him. He ran down thuh bear right behin him. He run into thuh cabin an thuh bear run raight in too. He diden stop in time an hit thuh wall an knocked himself out, bear did. ~aul sed, "here'soone Doc, skin it an I'll go back an get anothern. (Laughter) Brantley: That's good. Are there any stories that maybe your mother or father told you about uh some, a ta11tale like this about someone especially strong or could do unusual things2 Ens1eyl Well I've heard quite a few pretty tall tales. Uh I c'nt remembur much uhbout um. I'll tell yuh sum uhf urn wuz 1001urs too. (Laugh) They wuz, still it wadun impossible for it to happen. It happened all right cause my Dad wuz a very strick man, religious man, he wuz. well-read in the Bible, read it from one side to the uthur an he uh, evrybody tUk him at his word an he wuden tell anythin that wasn't true unless he told it for a joke. But back there he wuz raised in the North Carolina mountuns. an uh he sed he wuz out there in the mountuns, they had a free range at that time yUh know. They cud graze your sheep; cattle hogs an thaings they turn um loose back there in the mountun an go see bout um evry few days er weeks er so, yUh know an feed their hogs an thaings like that cattle, sheep. Sed he wuz "t standin side a pre,\:-ty ~ooc;l sized tree an'uh he saw sumpin rollin an hit wuz cumin fast. ~n ~e JUBS stood there an 38 watched it an it got right close tuh him so he saw hit wuz goin to hit him an he juss stepped out uhf thuh way an it wuz what ~y call a hoop snake an he sed hit juss straightened out an it hitttds tree with its tail an they have a horn on its tail an that horn went in this tree deep enuff till thuh snake cudn't git loose an he killed it. An that happened early in the mornin an sed by that 17 naight thatevry leaf on that tree wuz wilted. It's so poisonous. Now that I believe is reasonable enuff. They use to be very ofen why you hear of sum one seein ah hoop snake they wudun run or crawl like anothur snake, yuh know but they'd especially if they wuz makin an attack on anything why they wud be rollin juss like a hoop then when they got close enuff to whatever they wanted to hit, they dfden bite why they stung um with this horn an uh they claimed if one like that hit a man, it's kill him jUss as instantly as a forty-five bullet. Mrs. Frank Ensley: 1'11 tell yuh a ghost tale_ m1" mother told me. Uh a neighbor uhf hers died an ~h back then yUh know they diden hav funeral homes they juss had to keep their people in the homes. People would go in an sit up , an uh my, one of my aunts went out that night to get sum 17 Motif Xi321.3.1 Lie: hoop snake. Snake takes its tale in its mouth and rolls like a hoop toward its victim. Thompson, Motif-Index, Volume five. 39 wood to go on the fare an then a lot ah people sittin up so they just had a lantern I ,old lantern like we use kerosene oil light. So just as she went to pick up a stick of wood where they had taken the clothes of this dead lady put-em in the little off room it look like it I just come out of that door sumpin a lady you know dressed in white just standin, and anyway it was just where she was fixin to pick up a stick of wood. My'aunt said uh Lonnie did you see that? She ~e..d yeah, I see it. So she said she went ahead and picked up the stick of wood and when she raised up it was gone. fled they went back in the house and told the people in the house. My daddy and some other men went out there and looked around and looked all around the house and couldn't find it. S~d there was a tree out there and thought maybe the light in the house shinning on that tree that was there. They did everything but nothing happened, At that came back where they didn't see it anymore. ,J I used to sitn my mothers lap and they'd tell me that and I .just Ensley: I think there's a lot ah that. Mrs. Ensley: Really it's true, if she told it, she Ensley: (Jhere's a woman.) That uh could get around faster than anybody if she didn't know some one was watching her see, she's very feeble yuh know when anyone was around but when she wanted to go anywhere she'd really make time. And said that they had some uh hogs had something poison, that turn the hog in that pen died over night. 18 40 in a big pen the fat-uns to butcher and this old lady ud got mad at um some way or nother something happened there and uh she saw her come up to this hog pen and uh looking at these hogs and motioning round like she's kinda punchin around somethin there yUh know. Possibly trick but said every d Lot of things of that sort. Well my day had a brothur that uh would jus off to the mountains and lie gone for two or three months at the time. Nobody would see him but they could find signs of him where he just chewing tWigs, things l~ke that and uh he's gone there so long one time at there's an old guy that claimed to be a witch doctor they went and got him to see if he could tell um anything about whether he was alive or not. He said he went through a whole lot of that hokus-pokus thing and said yeah he's alive and ah and he's under a beech where two creeks come together where it was. They knew where the place was, yuh know, said it was a couple a miles from where my grandad lived and uh so they pulled out up there to see if he was there. He wadn't there, but there was plenty of signs and fresh signs shavings that he had been there just right recently and they was a lot of maple tWigs and b~ech tWigs and things like that he'd chewed up yUh know uh and spit out yUh know things laSee footnote 7. 41 like that and they could tell he had been there and hadn't been gone more than ten or fifteen minutes. They things that that p like just sound slum unreasonable but I reckon from all reports and accounts and old leguns (legends) and what not that they actually wuz and possibly are yet. Uh I think that it is moreless just hypotism and that's another thing just about beyond oelier. I got a brother-in-law he still lives in AlaOama He's ninety years old I guess or more. My sister's oeen dead several years and hets was a hypotist. He said there was some people ~hat uh you couldn't hypnotize. and others were very easy to hypnotize. He -said it depended a lot on ~ne uh how strong their conscience was so on yuh know and some yUh JUs cou~an't overcome their thoughts and uh he coulan't hypnotize um a tall out he said others that was very easy. Well that sounds reasonable cause You can disillusion a lot of uh people; others you can't have no effect on a tall. A PDF transcript exists for this recording. Please contact an archivist for access. Professor John Burrison founded the Atlanta Folklore Archive Project in 1967 at Georgia State University. He trained undergraduates and graduate students enrolled in his folklore curriculum to conduct oral history interviews. Students interviewed men, women, and children of various demographics in Georgia and across the southeast on crafts, storytelling, music, religion, rural life, and traditions. 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