Florence Foley interview with George Franklin Derden, Mazilla “Zelly” Derden, and Julian Vivian Tiller

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At the start of this interview, Julian Vivian Tiller and Mazilla Zelly Derden discuss Cartersville, Georgia; Soap Sally, a woman known for soap-making and reprimanding children; and Goat Morgan, an old man who raised goats. Then, George Franklin Derden discusses his Uncle Pete Coot Webster and his mule-and-wagon journey to Arkansas. Changing subjects, Mrs. Derden tells a story about Sho Sho Marie and her husband, Hike, going into town to buy beefsteak. Next, Mr. Derden discusses crops. He refers to cabbage and turnips as sass, calls string beans leather britches, and explains how he dried and used a sassafras pole to peel pumpkins. He then talks about the hundreds of hogs he had as a child and explains that people who didnt grow cash crops made their living from timber. He then discusses the timber-making process, the mill used to cut the trees, and log houses. The interviewees change the subject to local terms, phrases, and mispronunciations. The Derdens discuss superstitions about farming, including that killing hogs when the moon sets reduces grease, planting corn on a dark night makes it grow low and heavy, and the next winter will be cold if corn has a lot of shuck or if thick moss grows on the north side of a tree. Other superstitions are explained: an owl hollers when someone is dying, a foggy August morning means snow the coming winter, and rain comes after three frosts. Then, Frank Derden describes chestnut picking with his father and how to protect shrubbery during the winter. Frank Derden talks about superstitions about the moon, including that its position indicates when its time to peel bark for gathering sap. He also says that the planting theory zodd-i-ca predicts the twin timesreferring to productive days of harvestin May, which is when double cucumbers can grow. Potato digging time is mid-June through November. Next, Florence Foley asks the interviewees to tell ghost stories. Frank Dearden says his family tried to avoid superstition but he knows a few tales. As a boy he was afraid of the cemetery church because his friends would make noises with scrap iron to scare him at night. He then says that there were a lot of murders at the old Cooper Iron Works located by the haunted cemetery, and locals believed in the existence of a headless man that drove a wagon down the mountain. He concludes by discussing panthers, Cherokee Indian names, and Christmas traditions. Changing topics, Mr. and Mrs. Derden share more superstitions about the weather and animals, specifically dogs, doves, rain crows, worms, ravens, hawks, and wild geese. Frank Derden then instructs on how to protect oneself from a rattlesnake or copperhead. The interview ends with Frank Derdens description of his Old Aunt Charlotte Victory.
Florence Foley (1927-2007) was born to George Stone Saussy (1898-1964) and Florence Hampton Saussy (ne Perry) (1896-1976) in South Carolina. She lived in Atlanta, Georgia, and Columbia, South Carolina. In 1951 she married Edward John Foley (19312007) in Macon, North Carolina, and they had three children. George Franklin Derden (1887-1989) was born to Andrew Jackson Derden (18351911) and Bellonia Victoria Derden (ne Westbrook) (18581947) in Ellijay, Georgia. He worked in the timber business. In 1913 he married Mazilla Zelly White (1893-1976), and in 1929 they moved to Sandy Springs, Georgia. They had two children, including Watson Elias Vormer (1915-?). Mazilla Zelly Derden (1893-1976) was born to Elias Washington White (1856-1926) and Nancy Catherine White (ne Dover) (1860-1942) near Cartersville, Georgia, and grew up in Allatoona and Bartow, Georgia. Julian Vivian Tiller (1895-1975) was born to Jacob Randall Hilderbrand (1853-1928) and Julia Blanche Hilderbrand (ne Owen) (1858-1930) in Sandy Springs, Georgia. In 1918 she married Frank Rice Tiller, Sr. (1895-1966), and they had two sons: Frank Rice Tiller, Jr. (1902-1990) and John David Tiller (1924-1963)
Circulars; Oak; Farmers Almanac
tffiS. T.- Do you remember people along time ago - now, up around Cartersville btts. D. - Yeah, that's where I'm from Mrs. T. - Said used to be an ole woman way back in there that was making soapjand she came down in all those places and sold soap and all the little chil'len around --you know, see her comin' round and if they wuz crying and if they wuzn't good, the mothers and their big sisters and all would all say, 'if you don't be good, the ole ~oap Sally will git you'~ Mrs. D.-Oh, yeah, oh, yeah) Soap ~all~ you remember that? Mrs. D. Oh yeah, oh yeah, that's right.rTe,member that, too. Ole Soap Sally's gonna git you Mrs. T.--And we did have Mrs. D. ~ And we did have an ole man up thare - he really moved up thare from around Atlanta, Ga., here; and he bought a whole lot of that back land property in there and he raised these goats. Well the settle-ment gave him the mame of "Goat Morgan" - ( ~...1.:. - Goat Morgan) - That ole man lived on and on and on and I saw his picture - happened to - and I kept it this year. ~~s. T. - Yeah, it was in the paper, I remember that. My son wuz telling me about it. Mrs. D. - that was the funniest thing. Why, I knew him for years and he had had his neck broken away back when he was a young man and he lived to this last December - a hundred and one, I believe he was. but he'd get those goats and he'd take the hides off of 'em and er get that thing dried and eve'ything. And had rugs made out of 'em and he had one to ride on in his automobile 'n Eve'ything. '1'hEl'{ called him "Goat" Morgan. 2 ~ .1.:. - A~d the goats followed him armnd Airs. ~. - And the goats followed him around, that's exaotly right, and he got that niokname of Goat Morgan, and he lived there for years, don't cha' know. (Tape reo order turned on again and ~ v. says "Old'Cootft Webster went to Arkansas" and this story was told to desoribe ~muoh desoription and detail was used by the people in these areas when they wanted to desoribe any event.) Mr. D. - Unole Peee Webster (Mrs. D. - Yeah, Coot Webster) went to Arkansas about 65 years ago and a neighbor of mine asked him how long it took him to drive baok here from Arkansas with his mules and wagon and family and he said it took him "three months and ten days and two hours and sixty-five minutes by a might-nigh-right-brand new Elgin watoh" to drive from Arkansas to the Islet Mills on the Etowah River. (laughter) Saussy~-Now what about that one, -I don't - the Sho-Sho-Marie --you know, he Mrs. T. - You know, the first one you told about Sho Sho Marie or something like that - Saussy - Had to go baok to get his beefsteak. ( a true story, she said) Mrs. D. - Oh yeah, this old man, Hike, went to Cartersville, Ga., to buy their Christmas things and th~ oame back ont of the town, you know, at about the river there. And he said to his wife, that was named Mary, says: " I sooiety Mar-ro, have we got everythingy" Shee, shee, shee-to-me "Billy we have" (the story ohanges here to first person) and I rode on a little bit and I happened to think that I hadn't gotten my beef steak, so I sooiety Maro, we forgot our beef steak. She-she-she -to-me, Billy we did. And he turned around and went baok into town and told how oold it was, you know, to get his beef steak. But that's the line of oonversation 3 they had to each other, you know. Saussy - Woulld you tell that part about the "sass"? The Sass. M-r-. -D. - What? -- S. ~.-u. - Oh, the sass? Oh yeah, yeah. We - in our country, we put up our stuff for winter and all such things as shuck beans and dried pumpkin and dried okry and dried roastin' nears, dried ~ruit and dried apples and beans and peas and all such things as that - cabbage and turnips - was referred to as "sass" and people - uh - inquired of each other in the fall "Did they have plenty of sass to go through the winter~' And I'll tell you another, I had a little boy friend of mine - Mrs D. - Now let's kinda stop - that}that catches that right. Mrs. D. - That's all right; go ahead S. No that's all This little boy ftiend of mine - we ~~z going to school together and this little boy he got a holt of a circular~My daddy - was a saw mill man and he got his literature from DeLoach in Atlanta ) and they had pictures of saw mills, boil~~s, engines and all of these things. So I got one - one of them and jus' throwed it down intthe schoolhouse. I'd got it out of the post office and come back to ~he school house and left it and he found it with all them pretty pictues in there. So he asked me if he could have it. Well, it was not count to my daddy anyway. I said, "Why yes you could have i~~ so directly the school teacher found the little boy playing with the circular, you know - from the DeLoach business. Says, "How cum you with that?" Well he 1lV6uldn' t sayan ything. She Said, Wwhose is that?" Well he says, "I tell you, " he said, "It mount be mine if it t'wart nobody else's." S.- Mount be mine? Mr. D. - Yeah, mount be mine if it t'wart nobody else's. S.- Well what were funny - 4 Mrs. T. - Tell us about the pumphins they lined up. Tell us how they made "sass". Mrs.~. How they dried pumpkins~ ~.-!. - How they dried pumpkins. MIa D. - Tell em how they dried pumpkins? Now I don't know nothing about that. &~. D. - Oh - they simply cut the pumpkin in wheels,all the way around somid. They didn't cut it into, anywhere. They turned the pumpkin up and they got it in solid wheels. They took the seeds out of that and they took a peeled sassafrass pole and put it up on an ele~ation of some kind-might be across a bench -- and they simply took them round wheels like that after they got it peeled and they just slipped them wheels on there; and swung that up on the porch and let it hang there and dry. And when it got thoroughly dry, it would keep ml winter when it got dry. Then they cut that up in short pieces that way anp put it away in whatever they wanted. And the okry they cut it up in little wheels and laid it on a board. They cut the raastin' nears a little bit deeper than we cut fer our prize roastin' nears off the cob. They cut about two shearers off that and the scraping part they cooked that, because the juice, you know, would a been throwed away but they cut about two licks of the off 'n the roastin' near. They put that on a board and put it OUDside and dried it. And when hit got dry, hit kept just like your oat meal keeps in the box here and you simply put in on there, soaked it a little bit, and cooked it, and it tasted very much like a Doastin' near does out of the garden. But is was ~ not canned. It was just dried. Now the leather britches yoU had to soak because they were dry. S.- The leather britches? ~.-1. - That's been; I've saw them do that Mr. D. - They was a the string beans broke off about that long (2"~ and a thread run through them. A needle and thread, and make a great long ring 5 like that and they ffi~ung that on a pole and them string beans, string after sting, was on that pole in the wind and sunshine, you know. Called leather britches. They were n~as good as a canned out here or out of the garden but they beat nothing a whole lot. I've eat a many a day (conversation changes to hogs.) The way we had a - well hundreds and hundreds of head of hogs running in them mountains, on the hickory nuts and chestnuts. Tre white oak, post oak, turkey oak is called "sweet ma~(?)" and the chestnut was sweet math and the chickpin was sweet math and the hickory. But the black oak, the red oak, the old mountain oak - the tan bara tree - was all bitter math. Well, a year come that the sweet math struck, the hogs would get fat all over the country. You could kill hundreds of head of em and they had anjwhere from twenty-five to 2-300 head to the family, you know, running tn them mountains. Never did eat no corn. They just went in there and made their own living. well, when the sweet math come then the Elerjay was power full of meat. Part of it was killed fresh and carried in - the hoof and h~ and all, you know. A part of it was bakin (bacon?) down later in the year and it was shipped out of there - thousands of pounds of it to Atlanta and all, you know. Well when there come a year when the sweet math failed, then the country was full of poor hogs and you had to take up so many and ~eed them corn just like anybody else. But the years that that sweet math hit, why the country was literally flooded with meat, you know. And most people made their living out of was simply timber. They growed corn and wheat and iriSh potatoes and sweet potatoes and things like that but they didn't have a cash crop in there, you know, to sell. Well they made it out of cattle and hogs and sheep for stock; timber fe~ timber Mrs. D. - It was the industry Mr. D. - They had a b~ ban mill down there. They cut millions of feet of that white pine its high as a cat's back now white pines, yellow 7 poplar, black locust (Only excepts of the next two subjects are directly quoted. In one, Mr. Derden discusses the stripping of the black locust in the mountains because it was so valuable for use in sea-going ships and twlls how the "premium pole" - a 9!Z-foot black locust was hauled over the narrow, hairpin curve roads near Elijay by using ten team of oxen and 6 log-wagon wheels. The man who found it won "~125 in gold money,;. It took two and a half days to move it five miles. Threaded locust pins, 18" long and 2" square were used in ships since locust wood won't rot in salt water.) Then there followed a long description of how log cabins were put up, together, and hewed in the mountains.) Mrs.~ - ThaVs the way my log house is put together(with threaded wooden pins) The main part of my home that I'm livin in now, tat's so cold and so wonderful in the summertime, is just a log house that was built there before Sherman ever come and its put through with them pins --cut through and notched Mr. Derden tells how the best houses were put up of round logs, bark and all, then scored with a chmpping axe and then hewed with a broad axe (a wide axe with a crooked handle). He describes how the hewing of this type house was done. tITs. T. - Here'S another old saying - You must be hard put to do that. Mrs. D. - Oh yeah, oh yeah, I've hear that a many times. S. What's that you said about your White eye? Mrs. T. - I'm plumb white eyed. you're surprised? Yep, yep (-M-rs-. -D.). S. - And that means Mrs. T. - Yeah, that means (Mrs. D. body would tell something, you know, - yeah, yeah) you're that wuz - that maybe surPli-sed somethe whole ne igh8 borhood knew about and they'd tell it out - what the secret was and they'd say, well, I'm plumb white eyed. (Mrs.~. - yeah - un-huh) Mr. D. - Lot of time I'd say I've carried my pocket knife fer instance; I'd saY,I've carr.ed it for two years or I've carried it three years. All right; them ole mountain people ud say, I "packed" this knife, 2 years or whatever it might be. I've packed this knife. ~ell, hit's - a - we have pack trains but for a man to say I packed a knife - he meant that he carried a knife. mrs. T. - And then they'd get plumb white eyed at you! .. - Well what was that that the' lady across the street called walnuts? Mrs. D. - walnuts? If she'd go to speak about a walnut, she'd say "warnut". She say "ingert" instead of onion and all things like that. She'd say "heth" (hearth) or she could say the most things of anybody I ever heard. S. ~ Well, what was that you were talking about - we started talking about you plant watermelons~- Wtrs. D. - Oh yeah, oh yeah. .. - Well what are those things like that? Mrs. D. - Well I tell you what those old people-I know a lot of people like that now. You remember ole man Barfield over here? He vrouldn't kill his hog unless the moon was on the increase but his idea was Mr. D. - No, he killed the hogs, ~elly, when the moon was on the decrease to make the meat shrink and to get the grease out. Mrs. D -Oh, yeah, yeah, it was on the decrease. Mr. D. - Now the ole faShion person wanted - he wanted the hog to have a lotta grease in it, you know - the lard Mrs. T. Yeah, you see people don't want it now but then they liked grease. Mr. D. - Now, we want the lean meat. It's reversed now. Exactly reversed. They wanted to kill the hog when it iliad lots of lard in it so they'd get 2 to 3 9 cans of lard, you know; and he killed the hog on the decrease of the moon and if he didn't he said, it swelled up and no grease in it - if the moon was getting bigger, you know. Mrs. D. - Same way about planting corn. Mr. D. - He planted corn on the dark night so it ud grow low and heavy. In the moonlight hit went up - now by that, it didn't grow after that(?). They wuz hundreds of old signs as I told you a while ago-that my boy went in on Friday the 13th (into the P~y after Pearl Harbor). Well, that ud a been a blue day for a lot of people He went into the army then. He (some men) ~uldn't start no job on Friday that he couldn't get done by Saturday night. If it had to go over to the weekend - I'd say tha~s half of the peopla in that country that would go fishing that day before he'd start a job if he couldn't wind it up before Sunday. He thought that was bad luck and he thought if it rained - let's see, if it was cloudy one day before Wednesday(nig~~, it would rain before Wednesday night. If it was cloudy one day - and if it was cloudy one day, why after that, why it would rain ~efore sunday. He had it divided in the week, you Know. Another idea they had up in there - thing I've had people up there tell me. If they heard a hoot owl hollow they'd tie knots in their sheets to stop it, you know. A bad "o-men" - 1;0 hear a hoot owl hollow. But they wuz hundreds of em in them mountains and when the weather went to chan~ow there is something in that - Why when the \reather goes to change the hoot owls ud go to hollaring; maybe 3 or 4 at a time. It was a change of weather and not a bad o-men cause if it had, why none of us ever went ? They believed that, you know. Mrs. T. - Some of them thought people would die if they heard a owl, wasn't that it? (Earlier Nrrs. Tiller also said that when someone was dying, the owl came and hooted on the windowsill). Mrs. D. - Oh yeah. 10 Mr. D. -And its bad luck for a whip-o-will to hollow out in your yard. Now they's hollow out in the garde~ or field - that's all hollowed --they will actually get on the porch and if right but if they -<lio/' the everjhollowed on the porch that was a bad o-men. S. - Could you do anything about it. Mr. D. - No you ~ouldn't do anything about it. They'd go scare he'd off and he'd be back again in 30 or 40 minutes. He simply wants a clean place to mollow(hollar) - that's what it is - because he turns half around every time he hollows; he turns his head towards the road; and as he hollows he whips and his head is back this way. Well, I've saw a lot of times, get out and watch them, that way-they actually do that. Now they turn half around ever time he hollows They say every foggy morning in August meant a snow that winter~ and i, they's hundred of people that marked the foggy mornings in August. "And do you remember how many goggy mornings in August? well, I don't remember. I got it down. I thinks it's about 8 or 4 or 3 or 9" - whatever it might be Well a foggy morning in August meant a mow that winter. Well they wanted the snow to come, you know, so they could rabbit hunt, possum hunt and coon hunt, you know. Trail em up by the tracks an cut em dOffi, you know but he watched for that snow. Mrs. T. - My daddy used to say and I've done this a lots of times - 3 o frosts and a rain; 3 frosts and then ~ts going to rain. Mr. D. - Well they had that in that country - they said 3 fronstsand a rain and we'll go chestnut hunting because he opened out and he stuck in there. They's generally chestnut hunting. Now the chestnuts would fall some without a frost or a rain - either one as far as that's concerned 3 chestnuts to a burr. But some good years they will be one on this side and one over here(showed the position of the extra two chestnuts in the burr). They'd be five - well if he'd a real good year, hett have 8 good one here and one over hepre now. I reckon its the anount of moisture they get at blooming 11 timejbut he will hang there and some chestnuts wud fall, but they say now 3 frosts and a little rain and windstorm - wpy out they go to thefhestnuts. I went one time when 1 wuz a kid - went barefooted. It was warm that evening and it, we'd come a little rain, I guess a few frosts. We lit out around midnight, maybe a little before, from where I lived and went to the top of Stover - that hight mountain to r~ht of Ellerjay and to the le~t of Dahlongga - highest mountain near here. We went up there and we camped on top of the mountain til daylight come; and we turned over on the north side and we got in behind a gang of sheep and hogs. And things now they start out and first thing you know iGe went skating in there - sleeting. We workged a while and trip back over the mountain. Now I was barefooted and that sleet and all coming, you know, and we headed back home about 10 or 11 o'clock in day. And then my other orother, I had on a coat and he wuz bare~ac~ed - he didn't have no coat on, you know --that shows you what chil'len will do. Our daddy and mother never didn't thought nothing about it - just let him go and now our child has to have everything. (short discussion of the over-protected child of today) s. - What are some of the other things you did or didn't do about planting? Mrs. D. - A(7bout planting you - well, I'll tell you - well, he didn't plant much cause his daddy wouldn't a that type of person, don't you see. Mrs. T. - see, he was a log s.- Well, I know but I knew you had worked with the nursery - well like Mrs. Tiller was telling me about the moss on the north side of the tree. Mrs. T. - Yeah, the moss is heavier-now the way I've heard them say it - uhwhen you had a bad winter was coming they'd watch the tree and if the moss on the north side of the tree gets thmcker than it is on the other ade of the tree - Mrs. D. - there's going to be a cold winter, that's all. Mrs. T Yeah its going to be a cold winter. 12 i~s. D. ~ Well now you've heard if corn's got a lot of shuck on it this year then its gonna be a cold ~nter. See if the corn's got a thick Shuck,it~ ~onna be a cold winter, you've heard that? Mrs. T. --yeah, that's true. Mr. D. - ~rell I wouldn't be surprised if there ain't somepin in that about nature taking care of itself. Now I tell you I dont know too much about the bark only we used to peel that tan bark - (Short discussion of how to protect shrubbery during the winter) S. - Have you ever heard any stories about th~OOn? Well, I tell you, I doubt if the moon has very much to do with it. Now I started to tell you - we used to peel tan bark when I was a boy and we'd peel that tan bark. The sap comes up in spring of the year and you cut that tan bar. 'n peel it til along up in May, I think it is (middle of May) Tan bark v~uilid just peel - just hull right off, you know. Well all right, then a certain time of the moon in June for just about 4 or 5 or 6 days now this is not im~nary no~ not superstitions. This is true because we had to make a living out of that; and there comes a few days in June that that bark will come right back and peel again. We ~uld peel off til it dug tight. It didn't come off good - then we stopped, went back into the farm and wowked til that so many days in June come up. And if we didn't have enough bark peel, we went back into the woods and cut two or three more days. And it absolutely does - it comes back (tan bar~ is used to make an acid brew in waich hides are cured, among other things). Now whether the moon had anything to do with that I don't know, but it is a certain time of the moon - but you know the moon may vary through being new and old and thus and so. My daddy didn't pay no attention to the moon. He just looked for so many days in June that it would peel and then he lock again and it never peeled no more until next spring. Mrs. D. - They is lots of theories sure nuf! about the moon business. S.- 13 Can you think of any? Mrs. D. - Why yes, a lot of people has an idea that uh, that a corn planted on the waneof the moon will grow low and give a lot of yield and if you plant it on the increase it will run away and make a big st~~ and wodt (same as previous discussion) and things like that. Mr. D. - I'm convinced they's nothin in that - nothin in the world. Mrs. D But they do think that - see. S. - Well i~s wha~ they think or what they used to think Mrs. D. - It's what the used to think that you're huntin fer - that's right (S.) Mrs. D. - Well theY9$ed to think that - they used to think that about hogs, like I said Now they ~sed to have a great big theory about a planting - they went by "zodd-i-ca" things in the almanac, don't you see. S. - That's what we were talking about - ~~s. D. Yeah, and say uh the signs were in the forehead; the sign~8 were in the heart~ the thight - where ever they was-you know- and on twin days in May they would plant their cucumbers and they would be a lots of twins in it, but they would be any other -- Mr. D. - Make twin cucumbers. S. - What are twin days? Mrs. D. - Twin days, yean - twin days in May, that's right. - The zodd-i-ca will show you they's so many twin days in May, don't you see. S. - Oh really? Mrs. T. - I don't know how to read those things. Mr. D. - The zodiac you know shows two twins - you know little boys - twins in there. All right, if they was planting on the twin days in May - it was called of the zmdiac, it would be two cucumbers ud come. Now I've had thousands of twin cucumbers and you have too. The vines would run out and actually come out here. Your squash the same way (repeats description) but tthat is good work and water and fertality. Not the twin days 14 in May (Mrs. Tiller says they is lots of things like this in the almanac). Now I come up with them people they use "fotch" and ~anner" and "tayrter"-all these things as that. S. What is that? Mrs. D. - Well so and so he'd say I fotched that over there the day before yesterday (elaborates) S. - And what are those other words you said? Mr. D. - Atter - he'd say, just atter, just atter so and so's house somethin 'n 'nuther happened - down yon'er in town - right stn!ght atter that. Now after that he meant. They's an old feller up thereat Ellajay. One time they was on the court witness over a land case and he said~ to this feller, he said, - he was a very honest, serious-minded man - he said, "Do you know anything about thisl!"went on like this, you know - the rigamarole do you know anything about this - this land deal, you know. He said, " Well, what time of the year was that?" He said, "I'm not just Ellactly sure about that but I know it was in 'Tater diggin time~ - wtts. T.- tater diggin - Mr. D. - And that might mean f~ the middle of June to NovemVler, you know. l\'lI'S. T. --any time along then. N'l1'. D. - He asked this feller, it was on a land case you know - he asked this feller - a lot of disputes over the land - he asked this feller - had him on the stand, you know. I don't know, might have been the same feller as was on the (other) case. He said, lawyer said, "Do you remember What year that wuz?" "Now", he said, "I'll tell ya. I do know that hit was the year that mohn Addington wintered John Ellington's buIlt" (laughter~ SIDE LI (Asked them about haunted houses, ghost stories, etc.) Mr. D. - This man, I knew this man well myself, and it's not about a house. It's - wuz a church - some of the old people tha.t died - maybe under uh well - adverse conditions of one another - and this boy was desperately 15 arraid or that cemetary church you know; so he's grown and he went up there one day to see a girl - cross the country &his is a long anecdote about the boys'rriends who know he'll have to pass the church arter dark, so to scare the nliving lire" out or the boy ('Who was working hired out to a man who lived up in the valley - an old school teacher or minen] ahey got scrap iron and tied it in the trees or the cemetaBY so that when they boy came by, it began to jingle and make an awrul noise) nAnd that boy broke out and he run right down that hill to Lick Log Creek and the man lived up Lick Log Creek(the teacher). He took right up that Creek and run 80 rast up there that man said arter that, he had on a good, pfurty tolerable new pair or sho$s - a good sound pair or shoes - and he said(teacher) he(boy) had honestly run so rast that he had busted the upper loose rrom the sole or his shoes; and the man just had a latch on thar - no lock a'tal; just a latch on thar. And the boy made one jump on the porch and the next jump, he hit the door and knocked it wide open and rell in the rloor. tlim and his wire jumped up and run in there and he couldn't talk and he didn't know what was the matter with him. And arter a while he got it out or him'.'..(and the teacher investigates and is told or the trick by the pranksters.) Mrs. D. - or course there really wasn't a house that there was any mystery about or anythin&&s ror me, I can't reeall any kind or mysterious house-{ that's rc the tape recorder~pickin up everthing we're saying or course. S.- That's okay} Mr. D. - Well I couldn't remember one thing anybody ever got scared at other than that we had a church up yonder at bartow county that was a church and cemetery while major vooper was running the iron vrorks - where Hltoony is now - the vooper I~on Works - the old vooper lron Works. I knew lots or 15 people that worked for ~ooper and they was a lot of murdering and killingshooting and all going on .up there, and them country people there absolutely believed that a man would drive down thefnountain with nohead on, you know Driving a wagon down the mountain with no head on. Mrs. D. - Yeah, I've heard that. Mr. D. - Well, I.din't take to it. I was a young man and past it a goin to see her both ways; and they'd tell me about it and 'I'd just tell them that i I meet the old man, I'll do hit and go on. And I wasn't scared of it, but there was a lot of boys that wouldn't a no more passed the little cemetery up there than nothing in the world tHe describes a bluff where an old man he was buying timber from said he and his daddy had hidden during the nattle of Altoony in the ~ivil war) "He said there was a mystery about it that he'd never been able to understand. Now cooper's Iron Works was over on the Etowah Eiver and this was a little mountain just this side of where the dam is - it's covered up in water now - but he said they run down there when they went to shooting at Altoony but he was just almost war age and his daddy was a little out, you know. And they wuz hiding out, and they run down there in that thicket of bushes and sad down agin two trees, this way. And he said they shot a while at Altoony and directly a roaring started and his daddy jumped agin the tree and said, Son, get right on the other sidEof the trees here. Said, 'Hits a cavalry charge a comin from coopers Iron Works'. Well he says if l'd have been under the ~artersville nridge when a freight train run over it, it wouldn't a roared any worse than that roaring come. And it sounded like it was coming from coopers Iron Works. Well Altoony was back here. They was facing Altoony, you know, and he said a lot of the shells fell in there not too fur away and busted. Well he said, it roared for some 30 or 40 minutes - ~be an hour - and that they looked at one anotherlooKing any moment for the woods to swarm full of horsemen and it never did materialize. We, he said, .we've wondered al~ys what it wuz. They vmz two cavalry charges made atAltoona and come through Pumpkin Vines Bot16 toms up back of Altoona and fell back. And then they'd go back and another cagalry charge that come rightdovm by the side of Signal Mountain and hit the high mmuntain we was agin and echoed and made us think that the horsemen was coming from behind us and they was actually coming over here:1 (narrative of wounded being cared for after the battle by the man's sisters among others.) Mrs. D. - Well, right a following that got out the story ~ I've heard thatmy daddy tell that - that this man would ride up and do~~ the road without a head. Now I've heard that. (Neither remembered any ghost stories. Mr. Derden said his family tried to avoid as much of the mountain superstitions as possible. He tells of the many who couldn't read or write - had no "book larning" as the mountain children would call it. Doesn't remember any animal "tall tales" but then he did relate an anecdotal tale of a Methodist preacher who related this as a true story of his childhood a "panther tale". The preacher said he and his brothers were going coon hunting on the top of the Stover Mountain when he was 12. It was his first, and to scare him that night, one man who could scrawl like a panther began giving panther screams as they sat by the fire. - "a tre-men-di-ous" bonfire. "Directly one answered a way off" in the distance. The man would scream, but soon the group began to hear answering screams from various parts of the mountains. the screams came closer; the hounds began to Whine; and the joke backfired. They were surrounded by panther screams til morning. At daylight they left, Indian file, for home. Mr. Derden said the hills had been full of panthers at one time, but no more. ~he panthers would get up on stooping trees --"well a panther will get up on one of them and he springs for his pree off 'n them sLooping trees". It was the boy's last coon hunt, he said.) Mr. Derden goes into a discussion of the names of the mountains and valleys 17 in the Elijay area - most of them named by the Cherokee Indians. (Asked them about ~hristmas traditions or those of 12th night. He said they would cut down a holly tree with the red berries to use at the church and at home but had no special customs). Mrs. D - It's an old Southern tradition that the animals kneel at midnight on the night of the 24th, you know(Nx. D. said there was no truth to this, at all~); and the cock will crow at that time and doesn't crow at any other time - that's an old theory you know. And let's see if s:>J!i.ething --(tells of her grandmother who observed each of the 12 days as being indicative of one month of the new year and would then celebrate a second Christmas on Jan. 6, with another big meal). Mr. D. - They watched that weather just as close as anything in the world could be to see what it dun. They'd tell you that the month of July would be half of it wet and half of it dry because it rained that morning and cleared off at ten o'clock and the rest of the day was hot and dry from then on. Well you could look for about the 16th of July for the rain to stop and not another drop cum to the last day of July. Or if it rained pretty wall all day the one, that represented August, why it \muld rain all through the days - lJrs. D. - I don't know that she went along with all that but she would go along with the 12 Days. They believed the first dog day determined the rest of dog days - If it rained the first dog day, it would positively rain for 40 dEWS straight without let up. S-. - When are the dog days? Mr. D. - ~ell the dog day. s actually commences about the 28th day July, I believe it is, and last 40 days. Mrs. D. - That's just a theory though~. ~tt. D.- Well theys nothing in dog days because if the dog days was correct they'd be a comin in January now because that time through these thougands of years ~ - Oh, but that's no fun (laughter) 18 Mrs. T. - Well the doves always hollered commence long in February - about the second week in l"ebruary and then they holler on til spring. Mrs. D.-~ea.'n; an~that is our first symptoms of spring. ~- What did you call them the other day ? Mrs. T.--raincrows - raincrows and a dove ain't the sme thing? Mr. D. - No, rain crows entirely difference (discussion) If the raincrow hollers, it will abso1ate1y rain within a few days. It may not be 3 days Mrs. T. - "Mock it". Mrs. D. - Can you mock a rain crow? --Mr. D. does imitate the raincrows'ca11. htts. D. - Now here's another old thing. This is a theory but it is absolutely right - a logical thing. These little ole red pecker wood things that digs hole in side of old tree like that. Whenever they go to beating on thatihing like that, it'll rain from that. They'll come up thunderclouds from that (He imitates the sound the make). They'll do that - they seem to know by instinct. I~s the atmosphere or something, dnn't you see. Now they'll do that. Mrs. T. - You know what they're 100kin for? They're looking for worms. Mrs. D. - Yeah Mr. D. - But he's not a lookin for worms when he's knocking on a ~ree (desribes the sound and restates the preceeding) There's one theory about the bird was the ravens. They're almost extinct now, The raven is, and I have never saw but a few pairs in my life. Never saw one without two. The raven comes over; he is not a crow and he's not a buzzard and he is simply a raven. Well he is a very oack bird and he sails-more of a stubby bird; more like a hawk; black with white spots on his wing. The raven has a funny call. He doesn't call like a crow. Got sort of a twiddle call. And I've saw a few sets come over. Well that 19 was one of the most deadly o-mens of anything in ~v country - was for a raven to fly over your house. It meant a death in your family - right immediately, you know. Well it wasn't used too much cause there weren't many ravens in there. Mrs. D. - Here's another logical truth - this is a true thing - the wild geese come over in the fall of the year. (discussion of how the geese know by instinct that cold ~~ather is coming and migrate south. Sometimes they will light on a house; and the v-shape formation) Mrs. D. - I was just a kid. Daddy killed this smake and he told us the theory of it was, it was a joint snake and you could just take a switch. He just took a little switch and hit it along like this'n it was a gray snake about this long (18"~. And he said now the theory is that his will find itself and go back together. And us chillen watched that snake all the afternoon (laughter) and of course it didn't go back together, don't you see. But that was the theory of the joint snake that it would find itself-its own parts and assemble together, don't you see. ~~. Derden tell a true story of his boyhood with one bit of folk belieffi in it. When he was six years old, he was out helping While the men hoed peas. He ran ahead of the men, a-choppin along an ivy bluff. He saw a "pa-tige" at the end of a log, hit it with his tiny hoe, and as he reached to grab the bird, he thought a big spotted toad-frog jumped out at his hand as he grabbed up the bird. He ran to show it to one of the men - an old man wit~ long goatee~-and the man ran toward him, passed him, and ~1th his hoe raised up, killed a big rattlesnake right by the same log. Hadn't been a toad-frog nAnd they killed that and what it wuz you see, the rattlesnake had the pa-tige(partridge) charmed and it didn't pay no tention to me " 20 (from here on the recorder is turned on for specific information only) Mr. D.- You step on the log rather than step over it - and spep away from the log - other than step over, because your pants leg will pull up and your Raked ankle will be on yon side of the log, and a snake lays under the log. And if ~e get a chance, he will lay under the log. If you ease on this side, you would see it, Quite nacherlYj but if he's laying under the log on the other side and you just step vight over, why your pants leg pulls up why he'll hit you. (Mr. Derden said that rattle~es usually wouldn't bother anyboey but that copperheads strike at everything. He said you could tell a man raised in the mountains immediately by this habit of stepping on)not over a log) ~~s. D. - If the rooster comes up on your porch or doorstep or something and crosses toward you, there'S somebody coming - crows inwardly, there's somebody comin. ~ D. - When you go out at night, don't get scared and run - the theory is don't ever run, no matter what happens. Mr. D.--Just make it a point, DON'T RUN. That you cannot stop and there's nothing that you would run from (in the mountains) that you would ever accomplish anything because it would catch you anyhow - and simply stop and just take things easy and just don't run. S. - Well, say that part about your nerve would break?.Mr. D.Your nerve would break and you couldn't ever stop. You'd just run til you wuz exhausted if you break and run (have heart failure is how he described it the first time). The best policy is to stop and compose yourself and that the animal will go away or whatever it is may be molesting you. (This last story was told in great detail the first time before it was taped~ Mr. D. - Old (Aunt) Charlotte Victory in Pick ins Country was picking up chips (of wood left after a log is chopped up when axes are used) in her 21 apron and this catamount hopped on the g~ post and all at once it bounced on her. And she just--seeing there was no other way --it was just tearing her all to pieces, and she just tore this apron up around it. Wr~pped it up and just got a hold of its legs and bent em across her knel!Js til she broke everyone of the caVs legs and when she got that done, she just waurpped it agin the gate post and killed it. And then broke for my grandd addy' lil. (Aunt Charlotte victory was described as being about 70 years old when this occurred - probably around 1840 since 1IT. Derden's father was around 12 at the time. She was a great big woman, three-quarters Indian, who lived alone up in the mountains. He said, she came stumbling into his grandfathers house, all bloody--her face.and arms -- and told how she had taken the eat's legs, one by one, and broken them over her knee. Several days later, the men had gone up to her cabin and seen the cat lying by the gate with all its legs broken.)
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Professor John Burrison founded the Atlanta Folklore Archive Project in 1967 at Georgia State University. He trained undergraduates and graduate students enrolled in his folklore curriculum to conduct oral history interviews. Students interviewed men, women, and children of various demographics in Georgia and across the southeast on crafts, storytelling, music, religion, rural life, and traditions.
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