Reed Hoerner interview with William Carlton “W. C.” House and Jim Ringer

The John Burrison Georgia Folklore Archive recordings contains unedited versions of all interviews. Some material may contain descriptions of violence, offensive language, or negative stereotypes reflecting the culture or language of a particular period or place. There are instances of racist language and description, particularly in regards to African Americans. These items are presented as part of the historical record. This project is a repository for the stories, accounts, and memories of those who chose to share their experiences for educational purposes. The viewpoints expressed in this project do not necessarily represent the viewpoints of the Atlanta History Center or any of its officers, agents, employees, or volunteers. The Atlanta History Center makes no warranty as to the accuracy or completeness of any information contained in the interviews and expressly disclaims any liability therefore. If you believe you are the copyright holder of any of the content published in this collection and do not want it publicly available, please contact the Kenan Research Center at the Atlanta History Center at 404-814-4040 or reference@atlantahistorycenter.com. This recording is available on request. This recording begins with W. C. House discussing his work in construction and move to Jacksonville, Florida, for school. Afterward he explains that he moved a lot because of his work and lived in Ranger, Texas; Birmingham, Alabama; Gainesville, Florida; and Miami. At 5:23, he remembers helping to repair a dam in Florida before moving to Georgia after a flood destroyed it. Next, at 12:20, House confirms that he plants crops based on signs in nature; for example, he plants corn on a full moon. Then he fondly remembers a horse he sold to buy a tiller (because it cost less to maintain). At 16:35, House recalls when his father encouraged him to find work outside of farming, which led him to carpentry and a job at the Georgia Railway & Power Company. In addition, during the Depression, he worked at a sawmill that provided lumber for coffins. He then details the process of making and burying coffins at 20:09. A 24:11, House states that he only completed school through the 7th grade because he worked on the family farm. Therefore, when he started at Georgia Railway & Power Company he mainly learned on the job. At 28:30, House describes making mattresses out of wheat and rye straw. He then discusses bee-keeping at 31:45, specifically the upkeep and sale of honey. At 35:56, House explains that he drinks spring water from the mountains then takes samples to the government for testing, then he concludes at 39:31 by recalling widows who lived in Tiger, Georgia. Next at 46:12, Jim Ringer recalls his familys move to Fayette County, Georgia, to be closer to family. It was a small, close-knit community, and he remembers several encounters where strangers tried to rob or cheat locals. At 56:07, Ringer explains that he used signs from the almanac to decide when to kill hogs and harvest crops, although rain could be an obstacle. The recording becomes difficult to hear at 1:01:04; during this time, Ringer discusses how to treat mumps. He returns to the topic of farming at 1:02:41 by stating the necessity of planting before a freeze. In addition, he explains that he rents a lot of his land and sells his harvest to a local store. At 1:04:28, Ringer shares an article about his mule eating and attacking chickens. Then at 1:08:32, he discusses his marriages and married life, as well as dating. He also tells another humorous story. Next, at 1:18:11, Ringer remembers growing up without cars and walking to school when it was too wet to work on the farm. He notices that education has become more valued and children are encouraged to attend school. At 1:20:00, he affirms that he has a drivers license and that he does not like airplanes. The recording ends at 1:28:03 with a clip of Blind Willie McTells Last Dime Blues. William Cartlon (W. C.) House (1899-1986) was born in Turnerville, Georgia, to Robert Madison House (1870-1953) and Douie King (1971-1931). When he was young, his family moved to Tiger, Georgia; in 1917, he moved to Atlanta; and during the Great Depression he moved toWilkes County, before settling in Tallulah Falls. House married Sara Louise (1911-1987) and had one child, Lloyd Davis (1930-2009). He worked as a carpenter and for the Georgia Railroad & Power Company for approximately fifty years. Jim Ringer was born in Spalding County, Georgia. He moved to Fayette County when he was fourteen years old, then later to Clayton County. Folk 40I Reed Hoerner Mr. W. C. House. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . I Planting by s:l.gns .... ,,, ........ ,.,, .. , ..... ,.,,,,, .. , .... , . , , . . 2 Schoolin' back then.,, ......... ,., ............ , ...... , .. ,...... 3 Straw l:o sleep 011.,., ..... ,, ... ,., . ,, .. .......... , . , .. , . , , . , .. 4 Coffin ma kin 1 . . . . 5 Burials ........ , ...... ,, .. , .. , ..... ,, ...... , .... , .. , .. , ...... .... 6 Bees, sourwood honey,, ....... ,.,, ...... , .. , .. ,.,., ... ,, .......... , 7 Bees, COll t. . .. , .......... , ........ , .... ,. , . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 Mr. Jim Ringer .......................... , .. , , . . ................. 9 Cuttln' Pigs .................................................... 10 Plantin'hy signs ... , ............................................ II Chicken eaten Mule ........................................ , . 12 Note: Numbers in margin gl.ve appro,.imate star tings on the l:ap,,, Rel,rn with Blind Willie McTell Atlanta Twelve String,at the end of: each side of tape, Blues Around Mi.dnl.ght., Last Dime Blues. Mr. W,C, House, a retired employee of Georgi.;, Power Rai.lroad, born in Turnervl.Ue 1899. His family moved to Tlger, Georgia; Raburn County. Where hls Father sawmilled along with the help of his sons, Mr. House had sl..x brothe,:s and two sisters that lived. I.11 19!.7 Mr. !louse moved to Atlanta where he was employed by Georgia Power Railroad, During the depression Mr. !louse moved to Wilkes County where he sawmilled. Tallulah Falls is where he finally settled down. Mr. House and I met under the bridge which crosses the Tallulah River. He and his wi.fe were picking muscad:l.ne. After the inl.tlal meet:Ing, I set up a later date to interview and tape . Mr. House was more than willing to pass on some of his folk knowledge of his earlier years. How do you plant your crops by signs? Or do you plant you,: crops just at certain Li.mes of l:be year? "Oh yeah, I try to but this last year, the only thhtg, ii:' ll grow but it grows differnt. In other words, i.f you go up here and plant corn on the. new moon it'll get up yonder about slxteen feet high an the ear i 1 llbe way up on the stalk. If you plant that corn on the full moon the ear won't be high and the stalk don't grow hJgh. It'll be better corn. There.' s signs there that you' s suppose to plant 11 there's days :ln th<~ almanac that gays a 11 days not to plant~ no :::;tPd 1_i~ al 1 \.ion' L come up. H' l.l rot." "Yeah I follow the almanac, What generally happens, the only time thls last year it ra:i .. ns so mueh I had to plant norne of it: on a new moon. The lasl. corn I had plant in down there, pl.snted down there it ,,1as planted on the new moon. The stalks were about eightc,en feet tall, but it made pretty good stuff. It grnws dlffornt. Only except on them, H you plan!: on them days they told not to plant on, the seed will rot in the ground. I dnn' t neve1: do that I watch that part of it. I don't: mind that, the other parts so bad. Them days that a, that say don't plant just kill it say in the almanac to _just kill weeds an plow ,1nd fl.x your ground. May be two sometimes three days right ln a straight, Most of tlu~ times it was one or two days. I watch for them 1m I don't do no plant:ln1 then. an I planted some. this last time I didn't watch to much, I planted some beans and tldngs up there~ an L:hey never dld come up, SHwed some turnips an they didn't come up. I planted them on the wrong day. An thls last time I we.rot out der ,,n I got some pretty salad, out there now. That I planted, I watched for it ,m i.t happened t:o he just rlght. I went out der and took my tiller an plowed i.t np an sewed it. I done plowed .i.t a time or twn an every time I'd get it fi.xerl it'd come a hard rain, an I won't gel to sew um. This lasi: ti.me I got um sewed an I got some turnip salad out der that high it's purr1ty. //t,O "I went to school but I never did go plum up to graduate. I never tHd get: a high school ,,ducation. How far di.d you go through school? "A about the, seventh, seventh and eighth. I was in the elghth I think when I qult." What school did you go to? "Up there al.: Tiger, just the Tiger school. They just taught: from first: up to t:he eighth grade. They didn't h11Ve a high school. Of course, they ( we didn1 t have not:hin 1 but a speller, arithmetic an a geography and a history book. That's all we. had. I reckon I learnt Just as much as a fellar ln college. Gause we had it to go through. We didn't go to school hut five months out of the year. That I s all the time that they had. 'l'hen they'd take the young un's out of school, pullln1 fodder, gath"rin' eorn a day or two at a time." Did they cl0e the school down? "No they wouldn't close them down. They'd just, chidern would just lay out to help their Daddy and Mammy. They had t:o help them. Back then every family had a big crowd of young un I s, They had to work." Did you build any of your furniture for your home hack then? //50 "No, all except at the sawmlll we didn't btdld any furniture then, We just made up what they call the Georgia Bedstead. Just take some two by fours nail. them upthere at the top an nail some plank across it, put some slats i.n there so to he like a bed. Then up on top do the same thing. Double bed um. What kind of matress did you use? "We'd put the, huy the cloth and make t.he thing and pack lt full of wheat straw an things like that. That's the only thJ.ng we had, Go out. and get you a load of a, where they thrashed thJ.s wheat and stuff. Get you a 1011d, of, that straw an bring lt in :m pack It in that thing plum full and sew It up. We'd sleep on it tll you wore that straw out ln there, Then you take It open, pou,: that out and get you some more, Was it pretty comfortable to sleep on? "Oh yeah, It was alright, I slept: on one, stayed all night with a fel lar one night. He had his'un filled foll of shucks, That was pretty rough. Corn shucks. He didn't break the ends off or no thin 1 , he just pack i.L, You know how the end of the corn stalk i.s. Sometime it would get turned up you know, an you I d get on that , wake up an have a hole punched in., ya l nearly. We never dld do that , We went, you take that wheat straw rye straw nu,Me a pretty good bed, Course when they wore down an got. flat it I d get hard layln 1 on them things, hut we'd let it stay but so long, Cause-'you could gnt a wagon load for a quarter," Did you have any feather beds? "Oh yeah, we, had some mother had a feather bed, Fact I got a feather bed in yonder now, that I sleep on." Where did the feathers come from? "Gome off the chickens, ducks. /135 "We sawed lumber on the halves, people had li,ved around town nobody had no money, An they'd bri.ng the logs in there an unload um at our m!.11. An we'd saw 1.l; on tlrn halves, Then,,., could, we could sell r,ome people want. a J i.ttle lumber, ~,e I d have it and they'd come buy it. Gc,t up enough money to pay for it. I remember one mm.:nlng I was stand:Lng there sawin' an, Home three or four. fcllara drove up therein :rn old Tmodel ford, Come around there m, said Mr. House we'd llke to have one board, I says~o1u1 say, yeah we want to build a coffin, I said, what a:i.zc board you want? They told me they' s bull.din', about eight inches, I. says, what you huryin', a baby? Says yeah. Ao they went out there an got that board out, an we.ot up there where we had a lit:t:lo old shed an thi.ng. They built that coffin,rl.ght there out: of that green lumber right off the saw. Square box like, not crooked like we used to make um, 11 "Up at Tlge.r Wf~ use to dress one by twelves an put um up in a loft. An folks would come around and want a coffio made. We'd get the th:lngs down, them boards dowo, an cut: um out, shape um') jj,;1 saw right: in the, where you make that bend, you'd have. to sawsomc notchs in here to bend t:he wood. Put hot wadder on 1.t an bend it, Them was right nice coffin, We used poplar. Purrity poplar In all. Did you let it season up there in the rafters? Yeah we'd just put: J.t: up thei:e, H: be. Well we sawed tlu, lumber out in the country mostly. Out !.n differnt: placer;, Hauled it in to 'I'iger an stacked it up. Pick out certain boards,you know for to lmi.ld somebodi.es coffin. Au you know we covered them, them cofffr\s with black cloth. An they little old what they call coffin tacks, c,11:pet tacks, that's what we nailed it on,. Na 11 1:hat cloth on there that, Lhey d:ldn' t put nothin, but the inside too, They'd lay you down in there with just a board under y11. Was the top nailed or screwed down? 11 It. was screwed down, yea boy Just screwed down, 11 They d Jdn I t use any hinges? "No, they just take the, put the, whatever they put the coffin In, put the ~-, fellar In there, they had no trouble at all. Put thee lead screws down yonders decide s tre.w them screws. Lay the top off lay you down in there and then they'd lay J.t back on there and sc1ew it down, Then they'd make a box and get a bigger box to set it in, of rough lumber. Dig the grave and they'd set: thi.s box down in there, then they'd lay a row of boards on top of that:. When they dug a grave hack then they'd have an off set in Jt here, on each side in the end. Because the box sat down In t.here,and then this, then out 1.n thi.s place an Lhe coffin went down in ~' an then they'd lay boardr; across all the way to cover it plum ov,ar, Like a vault, Then they'd round it up wi.th d lrt. Them boxes finally give way down in there an you'd have to haul more dirt or have more brought. Back then they kept them rounded." Did they dig them six feet deep? "They dug um deeper them days." 11 I know I',,ve had to take; several times, I had to take my buggy lines apart we had pole, to the buggy, We hauled, we had huggJ.es there that we hauled people out to the count~ homes, Some of us of have, run a ll.bery stable. Fact we done just alittle of everyth.lng. An a they'd want a bury ,;omebody, an di.cl ... n' t. have no straps to a , we'd take our checklines and take that check part off. We'd use the buggy traces, the buggy lines 1 an put: U: around the coffln an a bunch of: men over here , on each end each s:l.cle, An let lt down fn there. ) An then that flat string, you know, that flat leather It'd slide out from under ii:. Just pull it: on out, We'd put our check l:lues together til someone else died." 11.55 What klnd of honey do your bees hri.ng ln? "They get l.t out:, when I ,,ut the supers on, from sourwood Lime. I don I t put my supers on til sourwood ti.me. Ot:he,: people put theirs on right when lt starts, get kind of bitter honey then. But I , I have my honey straight. Real good honey that l.s. 11 Do you dust your hlves with anything? "Put nothln' round them only thing they llke is salt. I put that oul r.hecc Jn a lmcket, coins and things ln i.t. They Just stay on there all day long some- I ime when their working. Get the water ,m,l sa J t:, they like it. I sold a case af this honey out there at the fly flea market, last Saturday just a week ago. ' Course I keep the rest of it here mostly 1 for my friends 0 things ,that come around come buy) some from Way up :in NorLh Carolina, come buy my 1 up north fulhe.r up north and buy my honey and take it up there." How many beehiv,,s do you have? "I don't, I got around el.ghteen I think, an a I think, some. of them died out. They'll be late swarms, I noticed I had to or thn,e empty hive,11-gums out: there. Course I set two empty gums out there that I didn't put nothin' fn. I was making my gums an they were swarming up a storm. They star.t,.Swarrnln 1 in March l.ater part of March." What. <lo you make your gums out of? "White p:i.ne, you bui.ld a gum, bottom gum the hees stay 1n that. Thal :is than In :3prfog sourwoo<l start 1\loomlng you put a super on you 1n.,kc, a super dlfference, it small," What .is the super? "That's what you take off an l,riug in an st.ring up. That's where they put this honey. They don't put: no bee bread in no thin 1 , 'cept there." How long have you had your bees? 11 I I ve a I ways had bees. Mr. Jim Ringer born :ln Spalding County below Brooks Station. Jim and his parents moved to Fayatte County when he was fourteeu years old. Jlm has been a farmer all his life.. He ls now living :ln Clayton County, on highway 54, next to the Flint River. ,Jim's story about hJ.s mule eating chl..ckens got me Interested in talking to Jim. I was introduced to Mr, R:lngcr by,a friend of mi.ne, Randy Jackson. Jim and Randy have been neighliors for all of Randy's life. Io Gutli.ng pigs certain ti.me of Lhe moon. //20 "Yeah, cutti.ng pi.gs I tell ya, when your cuttlng p:i.gs 9 you a when the nign ln the knee on down to the foot. You can get a almanac, the alrmrnac will 1:ell ya, I got an almanac there. The almanac w!.ll tell ya I had a fella cut a hull the other day for me, Now Mr. Jackson, he he di.dn' I: believe ln si.gns. He come over here one day, he had had a whole day to cut hogs, says, ,Jim why don' t you ask your boys to cut hogs today. I says, M, . .Jackson, Is sign red right. He says, signs right anytime knifes sharp. I had a felln cut my hog, he cut all of them Mr . .Jackson, an the sign w,um' t right I meant he was that tall I I got that morning an he was as a hammer. The sign wasn't right. It's alright you can cut: a lit:tl' un, it's alright to cul: a I J.ttl' un anytime, but a big un if you don't lose him you think your goin 1 lose him. I done been watchin' it all all my J He when I was a boy people get the almanac an and look through the signs," Did you use to plant by the si.gns? 1/22 "Yes, I do now lf r ain't pushed up, Let me tell you somethJ.n' about: farmin1 Plantin corn on the draw of the. moon you haw, a stalk way up youd<>.r an an an ear way up there. I I planted that stuff, right on the full of the moon t:hat that piece d.ght there. You watch the sLalk al.n' t to tall the ear right low to t:he ground. Yea, dl.d they I know lot of people. Pollce Sanders, he had a watermelon patch I carried a fella to l.t. lie says, when you gonna plant t:hern things these watermelon, when the moon's full. I I plant my swnet:t:aters dark ni.ght:s, You might think I'm telling you a ll.e, I got four rows, I had four rows down there. An l I I dug forty 11ix bushels off, I Uved over there at Mr Andrews Smith, I lived down there, widow lady owned that place. An an I pl:mted that tater. patch moon Bhiny nlght, moon shiny night, I carry eve:cybody to shm,1 um my tater patch, I had it cleaned, vines were that deep. Some ,,ms esti.mat1n1 I'd make one hundred fifty bushelr; some two hundred and some, I I I pulled l:hem taters up on on a sled, an old colored fell.a Waller lived back over yonder. I said Waller,. I said my taters, I I glve, I put some taters down, he made fl.ve hills of um. I said I brought my taters up on a sled about fi.ve sacks. lie said, what time of the moon did you plant them taters. I sald, moon was ahinln' night, bright moon shining ni.ght, lie said to plant ,;weel:potato, set um out dark nl.ght. I been doin' it (ever since then?) Heal Dyou plant all your crops at a certain time of the moon? "Well, no sir I I sometl.mes the rai.n throw yon back, ynu can't get it like that, l3ut a m11n's got a patch or garden, I always try to get it by the, I don't plant much, I keep puttlng J.t off, Now if a man had a hlg crop he'd have to plant: some, now lt will make stuff but hit won 1 t be good, The ear won 1 t he as long, short ear and tall stalk, on the draw of the moon plant corn. Plant corn full moon low stalk and ear bout: that long. I.ot of people don't believe in H. but there somethln1 to :f.t I been watchln1 It., . I I planted my my my greens I planted, they got l:ittle turnf.pG condn' on um, Now you taJre this cold weather, bad cnld weather wUl kl.11 turnip patch come a freeze, I gc:meral ly t:ry t:o se.w my first of Augur;t, Then t:ht~y gHt old (~nough to stand lt. 11 llow many chlckens has your mule eaten? 1/38 "I I I cmtl.dn' t keep, d:ldn' t keep no, I, she ate, I I spect in all she ate I spect. r;he ate over n hundred, Not i.n one yeat ten or twcdvo. We got her fasten 11p Jn the stall where she couldn't get to tim~ she generally kill a I ) chicken eat. 11m ai.: feedlng linw. All .i.H all I could tell how many she dl.d kill." Have you e.ver heard of any other mules that eat chlckens? 1 never heard of any i.n my, never have haerd of any Pol l.ce Sanders, he he's the chief up there, and he went hack telli.ng them other poll.ce HI: the officc. 'they never heard of it:, an I never heard of ii:. What sort of hell, what sort of liquor .Jim Ringer drinking. Says he wasn't: drinki.ri' none cause I saw lt. for myself. A newsman came here he heard 'bout I.I:. An an th.ls fella I didn1 t know he was no ne't<rnman, I was talk:tn', He says, J.s th:f.s .J:i.m Rfnge.r? I says,yes six. .Hm what about the mule cat.in chickens. I didn't didn't have no mind, eat.in' chickens? Aln' t you got a mule eats cb:lckenr.? I says, yes sir. I showed him the mule, an a me and him got to t:alkin'. I showed hJ.m the hen, I had t:hc hen where he had all hls feathers off his back. Sure he took a pi.cture of the hen. I stl.11 di.dn' t know he's a newsman, I wstch he's wd tin' I tell' :im I sald, Cap, I was one thing I'd many men can' L say I , but I left home when I was four.teen years oldj I satd I aiu' t ever paid a dlme out ln court :i.n my life, I, an I say ain't many men , an be' s writi.n' all this down. lie had alot of wri.tl.n' up on the mule, he Look the mules p:1.cture hen picture. Bui: I sti.ll didn1 t no i.t was a newsman.'1 Did you at.tend school? '11 I never. di.d go to school much. When I went to school I had to walk fer from here to .Jonesboro, An rainey days, to wet to work, to work :f_n fleld, that when I got to go to school. An a it got dry enough to work in the farm I' ,l I he there l.n the farm. No I di.dn' t gel: l:o go to school. Now take chil lin they go to school now. I never did get me no 1.earn-1.n' much, f ,\,'/, .-,:;,, /,'\,\/. '\ \ I , \ t;_l l, \ _,\:\\, \,:,, ,,, J I t\,;,_,,.,)t;,,\,.,.__ I . A PDF transcript exists for this recording. Please contact an archivist for access. Professor John Burrison founded the Atlanta Folklore Archive Project in 1967 at Georgia State University. He trained undergraduates and graduate students enrolled in his folklore curriculum to conduct oral history interviews. Students interviewed men, women, and children of various demographics in Georgia and across the southeast on crafts, storytelling, music, religion, rural life, and traditions. 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