Peggy Croft, Rita Sutherland, Carol Dickens, and Mary Ann Lupton interview with Guy Clopton Dorsey, Nancy Loudean Jarrad, Mrs. J. R. Dixon, Quillian Lanier Meaders, Mrs. Fred Moore, Martha Cantrell, Thomas Watson Holcomb, Kate Louella Pitchford, Steve Benjamin Lewis, Neila Idella Skelton, and Betty Jean Lewis Meaders (part two)

The John Burrison Georgia Folklore Archive recordings contains unedited versions of all interviews. Some material may contain descriptions of violence, offensive language, or negative stereotypes reflecting the culture or language of a particular period or place. There are instances of racist language and description, particularly in regards to African Americans. These items are presented as part of the historical record. This project is a repository for the stories, accounts, and memories of those who chose to share their experiences for educational purposes. The viewpoints expressed in this project do not necessarily represent the viewpoints of the Atlanta History Center or any of its officers, agents, employees, or volunteers. The Atlanta History Center makes no warranty as to the accuracy or completeness of any information contained in the interviews and expressly disclaims any liability therefore. If you believe you are the copyright holder of any of the content published in this collection and do not want it publicly available, please contact the Kenan Research Center at the Atlanta History Center at 404-814-4040 or reference@atlantahistorycenter.com. This is part two of a two part recording. This part begins with Martha Cantrell discussing the vital role potters played in the Mossy Creek community because they made jars for farm use. In addition, she states that she has never used Meaders pottery decoratively. Between 4:08 and 11:08 the audio is difficult to understand, after which Tom Holcomb and Kate Louella Holcomb recall his maternal grandfather, William Dorsey's pottery. Specifically, he made 1-5 gallon jugs used for milk, kraut, beans, and syrup. They also discuss Meaders family pottery and good reputation and recall Lanier Meader (1917-2003) making pieces for students when he taught at Brenau University in Gainesville, Georgia. Kate Holcomb states that she displays several pottery pieces as decoration.Then at 16:58, they discuss Lanier Meaders and Betty Jean Lewiss (1932-2020) relationship. Tom Holcomb also adds that his mother dug clay and tended the kiln for the Dorsey pottery business. At 22:41, Steve and Neila Idell Lewis and their daughter (and Quillian Lanier Meaderss wife) Betty Jean Lewis Meaders remember prominent local potters, Bill Dorsey, Tary Dorsey, and the Meaders. The Lewis family also shows the interviewers several pieces of pottery including a whiskey jug and cream riser. At 26:34, Neila Lewis remembers storing milk and cream before refrigeration and straining milk to sell cream in big cans. Then at 31:50, the Lewiss describe how they stored salted beef in jars and reiterate the importance of pottery jars for food preservation. At 34:05, they recall Tary Dorsey as well as his house and kiln, which remain nearby. To conclude their part of the interview, at 37:44 the Lewises remember Meaders putting completed pottery outside of his house to note when it was complete. From 39:06 until the end of the recording, the audio is once again difficult to understand. Guy Clopton Dorsey (1897-1975) was born to William Horatio Dorsey (1868-1954) and Mary Cordelia Ann Dorsey (1874-1957) in Cleveland, Georgia. He married Flora Autry (1898-1996) in 1918 and had one daughter, Mary Ruth (1919-2011). Between 1945-1948 and 1951-1952, he was the White County representative in the Georgia House of Representatives. Nancy Loudean Jarrad (1919-2018) was born to Joseph S. Jarrad (1880-1994) and Alice Pliner Corbin (1885-1954) in Porter Springs, Georgia. She attended North Georgia College and worked as a teacher. In 1938, she married Noah Roy Seabolt (1919-2007) and had two children, Eddie Faye (1939-2017) and Danny Roy. Steven Benjamin Lewis (1900-1992) was born to Jesse Royal Lewis (1851-1918) and Rebecca Caroline Turner (1865-1950) in Cleveland, Georgia. In 1922, he married Neila Idell Skelton (1898-1990), who was born to Vandiver Columbus Skelton (1857-1922) and Harriet Glaze (1859-1933). They had three children, Gaynell Caroline Harriet (1923-2018), Wallace Howard (1926-2016), and Betty Jean Lewis (1932-2020). Betty Jean Lewis married Quillian Lanier Meaders (1917-2003), who was born to Cheever Meaders (1887-1967) and Arie Altha Waldroop (1897-1989) in Cleveland, Georgia. He enlisted into the armed forces during World War II and was a life-long potter featured in several exhibits. Martha Cantrell (1913-1999) was born to John Frank Cantrell (1866-1942) and Mary Ella Upshaw (1871-1962) in Cleveland, Georgia. She worked as a first-grade teacher at White County Elementary School. Thomas Watson Holcomb (1906-1989) was born to Wilborn Carlton Holcomb (1885-1941) and Ava Anna Dorsey (1882-1975) in Jackson, Georgia. He worked as a laborer and farmer on his familys land. In 1927, he married Kate Louella Pitchford (1904-2001), who was born in Hall, Georgia, to Edward Pitchford (1876-1966) and Mary Naoma Nix (1878-1955). They had two sons, Thomas Lee (1927-2016) and Jimmie Carlton (1933-2010). Additional biographical information has not been determined. A Pottery Study in the Mossy Creek Community White County, Georgia Folklore 402 Dr. John Burrison Carol Dickens and Mary Ann Lupton The following pages consist of pottery description reports and transcripts of verbal conversations about the pottery observed during a systematic survey of a portion of the Mossy Creek Community in White County, Georgia. This field work in the Mossy Creek Community was conducted on the days of January 15th and 16th, 1975, The location assigned to the two members of this team was the eastern portion of the designated area (see map on next page). On January 15, the team started in the northern section of the area and worked south from Highway 115 to the Mossy Creek Community. The following day they worked Highway 254 from Highway 75 northeast. Almost every house on these two roads was visited; however, because the 15th and 16th was a weekend many people were not at home. The two houses 1 isted as #7 and #8 are both outside the area designated to this team. The visit to #7 was a mistake in judgement as to where the eastern boundary began but the occupants of House #7 invited us to House #8 which was also outside of our area. Mrs. Pardue did not want to be recorded on tape. House #9. From a conversation with Mrs. Pardue, daughter of Loy Skelton: Mrs. Pardue told us that Loy Skelton ran a pottery from around 1935-1945. He hired Bill Hewell to turn for him after he left Daddy Bill Dorsey's. Loy Skelton did not turn pottery himself but his children learned and helped from time to time. Mrs. Pardue was very young during this period but she had one piece that she made. Mrs. Wilson, Mrs. Pardue's sister, runs a pottery in Lula, Georgia and living with her is Bill Hewell 's son, Mark, who works there but is 65-70 years old and in bad health. There is also one other son of Bill Hewell 's living in Gainesville, Georgia. His name is Arlin. Mrs. Pardue told us that the Hewel ls were not from Mossy Creek "they just came here." She also said they lived near her father's home and she thought her father had gotten the idea of running the pottery from Bill Hewe 11. Transcript from recorded interview with Mrs. Martha Cantrell - House #l, Mrs. Cantrell teaches first grade at the White County Elementary School and lives alone. Interviewer: Was the potter a pretty important person around here once? Mrs. C.: Yes. Interviewer: Why is that? Mrs. C.: It was the only means they had of making jars to be used on the farms. Interviewer: What do you know about the Meaders' family pottery? Mrs. C.: Well, it was there when I was a child, a baby, cause my parents hauled ware across the Blue Ridge Mountains for him for years -- that's been over sixty years ago. Interviewer: Do you think the Meaders have been respected in the community? Mrs. C.: Yes. Interviewer: How have you used the pottery that you have? Mrs. C.: For milk, water and to preserve the fall grapes. --------,""""~ . '"~-~--,,,~-, Interviewer: Do you put your grapes in that grape ... Mrs. C.: Years ago, yes. with bees wax. We put them down with syrup and sealed it over Interviewer: What kind of syrup did you use? Mrs. C.: Sorghum syrup, grown in the fields. Interviewer: Was it made around here? Mrs. C.: It was made about a mi le and a half from here. Interviewer: What do you think about the way the pottery looks, the pieces that you have? Do you like it? Mrs. C.: Oh yeah, its old keepsakes. Interviewer: Do you like it enough to display it in your living room? Mrs. C.: I never have. We've never used it for anything like that. Transcript from recorded interview with Mr. and Mrs. Tom Holcomb - House #5. Mr. Tom Holcomb is the grandson of William Dorsey (Daddy Bill). His mother, Ava Anna Dorsey, was William Dorsey's daughter. Interviewer: Was the potter a pretty important person around here once? Mr. H.: Oh yes, he hauled it across the mountains and he hauled down around Athens, he hauled it to South Carolina and all about in a wagon and sold it. Mrs. H.: In a two-horse wagon and his mother went with him. Interviewer: My goodness. Why do you think they were important? Mr. H.: Well, there wasn't none being made much no where and people used it. Mrs. H.: He's [Daddy Bill] the only one that made it. Mr. H.: Well, uh, John Meaders, Ian Dorsey and Tarp Dorsey made it but they was all right in here together and the people, that was all they had to put milk in. Mrs. H.: know. And to put \ I ther,'!' kraut /\ and their beans in, the big churns, you Mr. H.: And they made the big jugs like that little 'un there - from one to five gallon jugs. Mrs. H.: To put syrup in, homemade syrup. Interviewer: I bet that was good. Mrs. H.: It was good. You don't get none like that now. Mrs. H.: See they didn't have nothing back then to put it in. Mrs. H.: That's all they had. Interviewer: Are you from around here, too, Mrs. Holcomb? Mrs. H.: Yes mam, .... [unclear] Interviewer: What do you know about the Meaders' family pottery? Mrs. H.: That's a good 'un. He's a good 'un, I tell you. Mr. H.: Wel 1, his daddy made it all the time, then his daddy and his daddy's brothers made it and now he's a makin it. His grandfather use to make it there where he's at -- John Meaders. Mrs. H.: The same place. Interviewer: Do you think the Meaders have been respected in the community? Mrs.: Un huh_ [yes]. Mr. H.: They're knowed everywhere. Mrs. H.: They're good people, I '11 tell you. Mr. H.: Q. Meaders, his uncle, lived across the street over there from him;where'd he go to? people to see it? Was it Danville to that school and made it for Mrs. H.: Was it Brenau? Why, I know it was - for years - and made it for these students. ~'" Interviewer: When did he do this? How long ago has it been? Mr. H.: I don't know. It's been several years. Interviewer: Have you ever used any of these pieces of pottery yourself? Mrs. H.: Yes mam we sure have all of them. I told you that's all we use to have to put our milk in. Interviewer: That's right, and you churned in the churn? Mrs. H.: Yes mam, we used these old churns for years but when our boys put a dairy out here they said for me to quit milking it was so cold in the winter time. Interviewer: What do you think about the way the pottery looks? Mrs. H.: Looks? Well, I like it. think it's pretty. Mr. H.: We've always been use to it. We've lived with it all our lives. Interviewer: Do you like it enough to put it in your living room? Mrs. H.: Yes mam, that churn sits in the dining room all the time and that one behind the door. Now his mother made her tea in that little churn [the one we are calling a toy churn]. She made her tea in it and set it in the refrigerator. Mr. H.: Now mother was 92 year old [when she died] and I guess part of that stuff was made before she married. She helped make some of it. Helped dig the clay and helped tend the kiln. See you went out in the bottoms and dug the top of the dirt off to get down where it wouldn't be gritty, to get the clay and take that to the mill and grind it and then they'd work that up and weigh it out and make it up into balls and then turn it, so many pounds for a churn. The continuation of this conversation is not relevant to this study. Transcript from a recorded interview with Mr. and Mrs. Steve Lewis and their daughter, Betty Jean Lewis. House #6. John Burrison is the interviewer in these conversations and parts are left out according to relevance. John: As far as I can get it together, there were at least sixty potters who made ware in Mossy Creek from the beginning about 1830 up 'til now with Lanier. Mrs. L.: See, I can't remember anybody but Bill Dorsey, Tarp Dorsey and the Meaderses. John: What about Guy Dorsey's father? Mr. L.: Well, he worked in the ware kiln and they all, every one of them made ware. They was sorta like the Meaderses one of them would maybe be a better hand to turn but the other one would haul wood. John: Or in other words real good at firing. Mr. L.: Well, what I mean well you got to fit a fella to his job. never did turn no wear but still what I mean, if a fella was a good hand to turn well, if he could turn out 150 gallons more a day than the other fella could, let him haul the wood, let him do it. It's like shoeing a horse, everybody couldn't shoe a horse, took a blacksmith to shoe a horse and that's the way it was. I've heard the Meaderses talk about it, part of them would haul the wood and all and part of them worked in the kiln, they done the turning. They did more turning than the others did. Mrs. L.: They call it pottery now but back then they called it, they didn't call it pottery. About the cream riser: John: That's the second really broad pitcher we've seen. Mrs. L.: That one's the bought glazing too? John: Yeah, this one too. Mrs. L.: That is what I use to, that one came from Loy Skelton's, that's what we called a cream riser. I put my sweet milk, we use to milk, we milked two cows. John: You used this as a cream riser? Mrs. L.: That's when we did not have, we had a hole, we called it a cellar. Some people call it a basement. Steve dug a hole in there and we put sand and water in it. We put about two buckets of fresh water in it a day, and then I'd put my milk down there. We didn't have no, you know, frigerdare for the longest and that's where I put my milk. We use to have a place to go down in here in the kitchen and that was it and we just opened it up. Mrs. L. (Cont'd.) : There wasn 1 t up when he put the rug in there. Betty J.: But this was a cream the cream rise. John: Would you milk into that? Betty J.: Yes. John: Right from the cow? no rug in there but Steve stopped that We go in the other way now, etc. riser, see, what she would do would let Mrs. L.: No, you have to strain milk. We'd milk it in a bucket .... John: What did you use for a strainer? 2 Mrs. L.: upstairs. use a cloth now, but I use to have and I've got an old strainer Betty J.: It has to be a real fine strainer. John: Is it made out of wires? Betty J.: Yeah. Just put that over the top and pour your milk in. See, you have to strain your milk even from the cow and then see, the cream would rise on that and you could dip it off or at one time we sold cream John: Well, when you stored this milk in the cream riser say in your spring house or in your spring or in your cellar, did you put something over the top? Mrs. L.: Well, when I put it down here I had a cloth over it. Betty J.: You tied it. John: With a cloth? Betty J.: Un huh. Talking about salting beef: Mrs. L.: You'd just put a lot of salt then you'd have to take it out and soak it because it wouldn't keep long. Mr. L.: Why, you couldn't, they'd get out here and kill a beef and this one would take a quarter and that one a quarter and the other one a quarter and then they'd cut off and they'd say all you could keep it would just be as long as you could keep it salted. Why they'd salt down a jar full of that stuff. Mrs. L.: Yeah, but there was fifteen of us at one time. ---------------- ------ Mr. L.: And about every three days they'd pour that water off and start over and re-do it again until they eat it up. You couldn't keep it but so long and at that point it would get too old. 3 Mrs. L.: Well, mother would cook it, she'd boil it [This is not completely clear]. She'd put in brine salt, we'd call it. It would be so salty, but then she'd soak it out. But then there was fifteen of us and it didn't take long to eat it up. Mr. L.: Well, I ain't so old but I been put up wet lots of times and treated pretty ruff but I can remember when they wasn't a dozen fruit cans in the district, when fruit cans began coming in. They put the stuff in them things [pottery]. I remember when people began getting fruit cans and canning fruit. Betty J.: There was two Bill Dorsey's, right? Mrs. L.: There was Daddy Bill but this would be Tarp Dorsey's uh. John: That would be Little Bill Dorsey - The Revenuer. Mr. L.: Little Bill was the one that lived down here. He was Ian Dorsey's uh. Mrs. L.: The one that got killed, he bought part of the place from my brother. My brother sold part of the place to his brother-in-law. He married Bill Dorsey's sister. John: I 've seen his shop. You know that brick shop down by Mossy Creek Camp Ground. That's suppose to be the shop that he use to have, that his wife turned into a store after he got killed. Betty J.: That was later. Mr. L.: It was right down here. Betty J.: It was right down there behind the pines. They've planted pines down there now and you can't see the house. John: That was his dwelling house? Mr. L.: That was his dwelling house and he turned his ware in his ware kiln back on this side,out there towards the branch. John: guess where they had good clay. Mrs. L.: No, he had to buy it. don't believe there was no clay got from around here. I don't remember nobody getting no clay right close from a round here. Betty J.: Now this was before the Meaderses started because this was before he ever moved from the county, right? : 4 Mrs. L.: Well, the Meaderses is as old as the Tarp Dorsey crowd, I guess. Betty J.: What I'm saying is that this Dorsey that lived down here was before he ever went over yonder. Mrs. L.: Yes, that's where he got killed, over yonder, etc. He moved before we's ever married. John: When you all were farming earlier and you used this pottery for storing stuff in, how did you know when the potter had the stuff to sell? Mr. L.: You could see the stuff setting out on the ground and you'd know if you wanted anything to go get it before he hauled it off. A PDF transcript exists for this recording. Please contact an archivist for access. Professor John Burrison founded the Atlanta Folklore Archive Project in 1967 at Georgia State University. He trained undergraduates and graduate students enrolled in his folklore curriculum to conduct oral history interviews. Students interviewed men, women, and children of various demographics in Georgia and across the southeast on crafts, storytelling, music, religion, rural life, and traditions. As archivists, we acknowledge our role as stewards of information, which places us inaposition to choose how individuals and organizations are represented and described in our archives. We are not neutral, andbias isreflected in our descriptions, whichmay not convey the racist or offensive aspects of collection materialsaccurately.Archivists make mistakes and might use poor judgment.We often re-use language used by the former owners and creators, which provides context but also includes bias and prejudices of the time it was created.Additionally,our work to use reparative languagewhereLibrary of Congress subject termsareinaccurate and obsolete isongoing. Kenan Research Center welcomes feedback and questions regarding our archival descriptions. If you encounter harmful, offensive, or insensitive terminology or description please let us know by emailingreference@atlantahistorycenter.com. Your comments are essential to our work to create inclusive and thoughtful description.