Joseph Taylor interview with James William Reese

The John Burrison Georgia Folklore Archive recordings contains unedited versions of all interviews. Some material may contain descriptions of violence, offensive language, or negative stereotypes reflecting the culture or language of a particular period or place. There are instances of racist language and description, particularly in regards to African Americans. These items are presented as part of the historical record. This project is a repository for the stories, accounts, and memories of those who chose to share their experiences for educational purposes. The viewpoints expressed in this project do not necessarily represent the viewpoints of the Atlanta History Center or any of its officers, agents, employees, or volunteers. The Atlanta History Center makes no warranty as to the accuracy or completeness of any information contained in the interviews and expressly disclaims any liability therefore. If you believe you are the copyright holder of any of the content published in this collection and do not want it publicly available, please contact the Kenan Research Center at the Atlanta History Center at 404-814-4040 or reference@atlantahistorycenter.com. This recording begins at 1:07 with James William Reese discussing his family background and socio-economic changes he has witnessed in Rome, Georgia; for example, roads being paved. At 6:20 he discusses his grandfathers work as a farmer and owner of a shoe shop. Specifically, at 9:53 he recalls that farmers would predict weather based on astrological signs, and the crops that his grandfather planted (cabbage, corn, cotton, and turnips). Next, at 15:43, Reese remembers how to make sorghum syrup and home-made liquor. Then at 20:26, he lists herbal remedies such as slippery elm bark tea for upset stomachs, wild rats vein for burns, and onions for croup. He also recalls his grandmother making soap and his grandfather making baskets. At 29:21, he tells a humorous story about his grandfather trying to move his horse and buggy to let an automobile pass. Then at 31:37, Reese explains how they cooked barbeque and cured meats. And at 35:05 he discusses hunting small game like rabbits and birds and (at 41:29) cooking squirrel dumplings and fish bread. At 47:00 Reese remembers children amusing themselves by making baseballs and learning to play the banjo as a child. At 49:10, he uses racist language when recalling an instance when a Black man insulted a local judge. At 57:45, he discusses burial practices, in particular making homemade coffins. He finishes the recording by talking about healthy eating habits and gives advice to young people about the importance of working hard in life. James William Reese Big Jim (1898-1984) was born in Jasper, Georgia, to John Reese (1876-1954) and Eula Green (1881-1974). In 1917, he married Lillie Mae Kinsey (1899-1972) in Plainville, Georgia, and they had eight children. He worked as a farmer and later became an electrician. In 1930, he moved to Commerce, Georgia; then in 1955, he moved to Rome, Georgia, where he later passed away. I RECOLLECTIONS OF MR. J. W. 11BIG JIM" REIWE AS TOLD TO JOSEPH W. TAYLOR FOR GEORGIA FOLKLORE - 401 DR. JOHN BURRISON GEORGIA STATE UNIVERSITY FALL, 1974 Introduction: This report is about the remembrances of my grandfather, Jim" Reece of Rome, Georgia born Hl98, 76 years of age, graphs No, 1, No, 2. J, W, 11Big See Photo- My mother was the first child and I am the first grandchild, Big Jim's grandfather on his mother's side was a Green, The interview took place in Fall of 1974, We were in a car driving along Georgia Highway 140 going towards Adairsville and the small community where my grandfather will speak about, Folsom, Georgia, I have tried to show in this transcript the sound and the exact dialect of some of the words used by my grandfather so they can be preserved as coming from this region of Ge01gia and of the south and our heritage and way of life, I am deeply grateful to my brother, Jimmy Taylor, for assisting me with this project by handling the photography. See Photograph No. 3, I am very grateful to my grandfather for giving of his time so that some of the things he knows and remembers can be preserved and not lost forever. Last, I'm grateful to my wife, Joyce, for typing this manuscript. Joseph W. Taylor Smyrna, Georgia November 22, 1974 This is Joe Taylor, I'm age thirty-three, I was born 1941 in Winder, Georgia, student at Georgia State University, presently riding out from Home, Georgia 140 in a car, With me is my brother, Jimmy Taylor, He was born in 1946 and this interview is going to be on my grandfather, J, W. "Big Jim" Reece, who currently lives at Hl Norwood Street in Home, Georgia, We are going to talk about some of the old times, and some of the things that he knows and that hopefully we can preserve for people to look back on years to come and remember how things used to be, See Photographs No. 4, No. 5, Q, Where were you born Big Jim and when? A, About half a mile out of Jasper, Georgia, March 21st, 1898, Q, What county was that in? A, Pickens County, Q, How many children were in the family? A. My family, my daddy, my mother? Yes, Four boys and six girls. I was the oldest, Q, What was your daddy's name? A, John Allie Reece, Q, Where was he from? A. Well, the Reece Is originally came from in there around North Carolina someer 1s, but he lived round Jasper a lot. Q, vfuere did your mother come from? A. She's from Bartow County. Q, vfuat was she before she married your daddy? A, Eula Daisie Green, Daughter of the late John H, (Henry) Green. Q, Where did the Green's come from? ll. /ls far as I know they's originally from round Bartow County in there, they were the Barton Greens, 1,l, Did they oome down from North Carolina you reckon? A, Not as I know of, Q, Didn I t you use to farm you and your dad right in here and ,just try and tell what you told before? A, Dad originally worked for the L & N Railroad for a period of years -1- on the bridge crew, later then he and another man, Frank Malone, from St. Elmo, was contracting together on concrete and stone work, as well as some carpenter work, but as the Depression approached in 19 and 13 and 14, there was no public works to be had and we did move out on one of my uncle's places near my grandpa, which we will soon be approaching. Q, Where was this at? A. Near Falsome. See Photograph No. 6. Q. As we are riding down this road nowadays, what's the difference as it. looks to you now and as it looked to you many years ago, when you were a young man? A. Well, as you know, this is nice paved road now, but back in those days, it was only a dirt road and more or less horse and buggy, you very seldom seen a automobile. This road here I have hauled a mule and wagon, cross-ties cut and sold to the Southern Railroad over at Adairsville, that year after we laid our crop hy we also peeled a car lo0d of tanbark. Q. What year was that? A. 1915. Later then dad he caught up with farming, he went back to Calhoun and got him a ,Job as a foreman on the Dan Dixie Highway. I rented crops on the halves the next year, since we'd had to sell the horse that we had bought and cotton had come to I believe around four or five oents a pound, so I farmed on the halves and that year and made with one mule And the help of my younger brothers and sisters eight bales of cotton. We come out in the clear, cot.ton had went up and we had a little money left. Daddy had asked me what I wanted to do and I told him I thought I wanted to farm, that the present tenant was insisting that I stay and buy me a new rubber tire buggy and a pony and I 1d be hot stuff as a young man. My dad said no, if your gonna farm, we'll go over on the river roun between Curryville and Reeves Station in there around near the famous Old Dr. Hayes Farm, so we moved in there, bought a big team of red mules, new rubber tire buggy and new ridin cultivator, so we farmed there then. As we are travelin east now on this nice High11ay 140, we 1re now approaching what used to be known as the Mosteller Place, The big spring at one time was auctioned off and they claimed that the output or flow was approximately 27,000 gallons or water a minute, as you know, this is wonderful water since you and Jimmy and uh the rest of the folks have had several picnics there. Very cold water. (my remarks) Yes, I remember, it was a real nice place. I thought you would like to remember those days too, One thing I don't know if I ever told you or not was there that my grandfather on my mother's side used to bring his wheat, corn there to this mill to be ground at Mostellers and my mother as a little girl used to love to come with him to the mill. -2- Q, Did they gri.nd much wheat and corn? A, They ground lots a wheat and lots a corn and also what they called a graham bread back then that a lot of them was crazy about, Q, What was Graham Bread made out of? A, It was a form of wheat, mostly whole wheat and the possibility that the miller might have added a little bit of rye to it, I don't know for sure, Q, You oan still buy Graham Flour in some of these old country places can't you? A, Well, you can buy what they oall Graham Flour, Wouldn't be like the other one. Then wheat then they made more or less of a white flour and they had one that they called short, not like like the short used to be sold several years later for hog feed, a lot of people ate that back in those days. My old grandfather believed in living home, He went through the Civil War on the engine, l1, What was his name? A. John Henry Green, John H. Green. My grandmother was Phoebe Green Barton, Barton Green, Grandfather then later he settled down and bought 360 acres and he believed in living home, but he raised lots of potaters, Irish Potaters, sweet potaters, turnips, cabbage, collards and everything that you can think of to eat nearly, He also operated a shoe shop, homemade shoes, made broggans shoes, old wooden last, he had his awls and nives and his leather nives he made with wooden pags, People those days lived at home, Q, What's changed about this road and the way it looks now from the way it used to look? See Photograph No, 7. A, This road through here used to be called hack when we lived in here some sixty, sixty-five years ago, called Owl Holler on up here ,Just above us, See Photograph No. fl, Just an old dirt road through here, it's improved some, but its still a dirt road scraped periodically by the county, but by no means paved, ,Just near out through, In those days right here on the right there was one family of Negroes who lived there, 1'hat one and see the old house, you can still tell it's a houseplaoe been gone for a period of years and on down further on the other end, there was one other Negroe family which was the only black people I ]mowed of anywhere round in this part of the country, House place, old trees, old walnuts out there, By the way, there Is a mighty good spring right down there, In those dnys, people usually built where was especially over in this oount.ry, where there was a good spring of water and they had a well from it, See Photograph No,9, Running water as you know it now didn It exi.st in your homes, or -3- course, hot water, there was very few if any people that I kno11ed of back in my boyhood days that had it, especially out here round this part of the country, Q. This is where the hornet's nest was, wasn't it? See Photograph No, 10. A. Yes, right there, Q. Where we saw it when we picked bl'1ckberries this summer. Isn't this, I have always heard this, is some kind of old sign about if the hornets build close to the ground. As I recall this was right on the ground. A. Well, when your daddy mother and myself was in here picking berries, it was not much bigger than a big grapefruit and was almost to the ground at that time, Later the lady friend and myself wa,s back in here and they had build where the nest did reach the ground. Those old-timmers in and around Elberton they write and say that that Is a sign of a mL;hty hard winter for the hornets to build low to the ground. Of course, if you read the paper, you know they have other predictions such as the bushy tail on the squirrel, thick shucks on the corn, thick mossy bark on the northern side of the trees. By the way, the north side of the tree is always the mossy side, all old-timers know that and when you was out. at night and got lost, they could tell which ,11as the north. See Photograph No, 11. Q, Did you ever hear your daddy talk about signs like this'/ A. He never did go in too much for weather pred:lctions and things like that other t.han telling the twenty-four hour period, You could be out at night and I have noticed this myself and if you see lots of stars and they are pretty and bright, you could always predict the next day would be a beautiful day; however, if was clear and you didn't see but a few stars, if it. didn't rain the next day it would be p,,rtly cloudy or hazy or the wind would blow a right smart, I have not.iced that about all my life, Joe, we are now approaching the old home place of my Grandfather_ Green, on the right there, That year after we'd farmed, short crop and everything priced low, my daddy and myself cut off proximately 150 cord of wood down on the side of that mountain there, pine nice and split easy. See Photograph No. 12. Q. Those trees there now 100 foot, 200 feet tall aren't they? A, Yes, that was 1914, On the left there now where you see all them pines I plowed that with a bronco mare we had bought to farm with. We had one cane patch right along there. See Photograph No. 13, Q, What kind of cane? -4- A. Surp cane. Q, Sorghum? A, Sorghum cane, Ours was called the Golden Ribbon I believe it was, make a tall thin stalk which made mighty good surp back in those days, Now here to our right, I cultivated that plum up there to the foot of' the mountain there. That ground was all rocky, we had cot ton there. Growed some mighty fine Rocky Ford Cantaloupes in it, Now right here on the left is the old home place, See that walnut? There is another big spring right back there. '.le lived there. This next place here as you turn in was my Grandpa Green's old home place and he had sold one of his boys a farm on that side and then Uncle Berry Green on the other side on down, he sold Uncle Jim Green a farm down there, Still had all he wanted here plum back up across the mountain, See Photograph No, 14, As you see now, your approaching his old home place, The garden was on the left there, a big one, about an acre or acre and a half, The house stayed in the family approximately all the time, it was out a short time, One of my first cousins managed to get the 40 acres and the old homeplace back with the big spring and he hfls remodeled and rebuilt and as you can see it is very attractive now and would bring a nice piece of money if' he could turn it loose. In fact I offered to take it. off his hands anytime, He is well pleased with it and he and his family his wife parttcularly, has spent a lot of weekends up here. By the way too, I believe you and Jimmy both as well as your father and mother have been here to the Old Green Reunion, My mot.her was the last child to pass away, which she passed away this past September 29th, she was 94 years old and 10 days, She was the un out of a big family of twelve to pass away. Some of them, she was about the middle, some of them was older than her and whole lot of them younger she. However, she did have one brother who lived to be nearly as old as she was, We are now approaching the spring. Before we go down to the spring and we'll talk about it, let 1s talk some about my grandfather's old garden there, He r;rowed a lot of Irish Potaters, sweet potaters, cabbage, turnips and everything you can mention of for a garden use, He had one Irish Pot.atoe that he always called his old Hoosier Irish Potater, He would never plant them up to about oh along the probably last of July, the first of August. He said they would never make until the nighta went to getting cool, He savAd those and sold of seed of it, And by the way, the apples now, as you can still see there's a few trees left but not many, but he had some apples in nearly any variety you'd want to talk about, He had one he called his Shockly Apple, his Yate, his Cider Apple, his Sweet Apple, He had numbers of trees in nearly anything you'd want. Later in life back here to our left over the mountain there, big flat mountain, him and somebody growed a mighty big peach orchard up there for several -5- years, shipped lots of peaches away from here. Grandfather was very interesting old man, He had his sweet potater patch right back of the house there as you see and by the way, there was one big scaley bark hickory there that you oould crack the nuts with your teeth. It was approximately three feet in diameter and probably at least 150 feet tall, as you can see, it has done passed on. Q. What was this old house made of'/ See Photograph No. 15. A. Made out of the best heart pine lumber that could be had which was in them days was A-1 shore nuff. They had one back in them days lumber they called B or better. Q, Did he make it himself or did he buy it from the mill? A. Naw, he had it, sawed - built his own house here. Q. Built his own house and set the foundation and everything? A, Yeah. Q. When would you say it was probably built? A, Well, it would be hard to say but I would say at least. 75 years ago, probably longer. Joe, in addition to my grandfather's garden, orchard and so on, he also owned a surup mill - him being a very early riser, you seen the big spring we's talking awhile ago, r.tght below that he had what he called his spring house - he 1d always bring the milk and butter down there set it in the water, had it fastened up nothing get to it and it 1d stay cool. That was frigerator in those days. See Photograph No. 16, Also carry back a bucket of fresh water every mornin before breakfast. After breakfast, before he went to his usual job of farming or whatever he was doin, shoe shopping, he'd carry grandma another bucket a water. But as we said about the surup mill, right over there where we 1s at a few minutes ago was where his surup mill set. See Photograph No. 17, He had one of the old timers with the three rollers on it, pulled by a long beam across the top with a mule that went around and around, squeeze the juice out of the surup cane that fed on a gravity feed then, out a barrel, down to his surup pan and his surup was one of those cld timers he called his evaporater, iiV s made - you might call it little troffs that go out one end, oome back through and then come bacJ, the other end across the pan. Q. Baffles? See Photograph No. 18, II. Back through the other one like that. It, kept a little trickle of juice going in nearly all the time at the back end, skimming it properly of course, where it would taste good 1n fresh, be pretty and bri te, and his surup would come out there at the upper end next to where he was, He made surup for hiss elf and a lot of the other people all over the whole country. He wouldn't -6- only make a few gallons, he's make barrels of it, Sorghum, lot a people callee] it back then, Q. People like this they always hunt a spring back in those days if they wanted to make eny liquor, wouldn't they? A. Well, it wasn't make at the spring, They usually went off down in some deep holler a piece, way from everybody to make it, where they'd be outa sight, make as little a trail from the house as possible carrying in the sugar, and the meal, and the stuff they cooked it out of as well as the corn malt. I have seen this corn malt myself where they've shelled the corn and maybe keep it someers I wher.e it would be warm, let it would sprout, It would h,ive green sprouts on it two or three inches long and have that ground, that was known as our malt, they'd put that in the meal after it had been cooked and boke up to make it ferment., Q, Did a lot a people make liquor then? See Photograph No, 19, A, Well, it wadn't considered back in the early days as a crime if a man wanted to make a little bit of good likker for hisself and a few of his friends, He felt honest in it, and sincere, However, my grandfather and grandmother for as that goes, was always very moderate in drinking, Very lenient, seldom drank but it 11adn 1t no disgrace for the older people then to take a drl.nk of toddy if they wanted it, but the straight out boot-legger man t.hat tried to profiteer was looked down on practically as much or even more so than he is today, Them was the days when the men was men and the women was glad of it. By the way, my old grandmother, I have seen her a few times sit in the corner and smoke her pipe, but it would have been a disgrace to have lit a cigarette, Q. Disgrace to smoke a cigarette, but 8he smoked a pipe? /\, Sit in the corne1 at times by herself mostly, or some of the grandchildren round her, it was alright, pormissable. Q, It's said that grandpa, your daddy, was a, had trained under an authentic Hoot Doctor. Is there anything to that? A. Well, dad knew most all the herbs, such as ginseng and snakeroot, yellow dock and everthing else said he dl.d a right smart and he gathered lots of the others, he had several old remedies that he would use and claimed was mighty good, Some or them were for upset stomach 01 rhuematism and things like that. Q, Do you recall any of those old re1rndies? See Photograph No, 20, A, Well, one of the old ones was a sllppery elum bark, It Is not like our elum or a Chinese elum or nor old elum that I s been dying out so much, Slippery alum was different, They'd peel it off and -7- peel off the inside 11nd make a tea out of it and drank it,. Q. Wlvit was that for? /\, Stomach trouble primarily, Q, Well, did it really help? I\.. Well, back those clays they said it did. And another one that they had he in particular was uh what they called wild rat's vein, It's a thang or herb or weed like that grows around in the woods and get that and fry it in lard and put it on a burn and they said it would heel it up quick and also soothe the pain, /\ lot them too I heard them talk some about using a peach tree tea for an upset stomach, They'd scrape the hickry uh limbs off the peach tree, scrape the bark and it h,9d to be scraped down instead of up, had to scrape it in the right direction for them, Q, And make you a tea out or that? I\., Make you tea out of that and drank it, Of course, the babies back them days nearly everybody had em a bunch of catnip that the babies would drank catnip tea and if they had the croup or something like that, they'd put a onion in the fire and cover it put it up with a rag then cover it wi t,h ashes and heat it and get that onion good and hot and they'd squeeze that juice out and give that to baby for croupe. Of course, there were other things such as put.ting a flannel cloth on your chest if you were about to hAve pumonia and that would be lard, little turpentine, and at times campfor and there was such a thl.ng back then called asphiclity that they'd give some babies. That was a drug store medicine. One of the old timey ways uh back right this side of the house nearly where you see that tree sHting there, grandpa built my grandmother, it was there when I was a boy no telling how many years, a ashhopper. Made kind of 11 troff like thing and some four feet deep or more and come together in the bottom like troff and they'd put their ashes out of the fireplace which was where he had burnt hickry and oak and things like that, It was a lot of lye they called it in it and he'd put. them ashes there for a period of time til it'd get practically full and they'd go out and pour water on it a bucket full at a time along and they'd catch that lye, Q, Did they make soap out of it? A, And they'd take their old meat skins or rank meat if there's some meat left on a bone, some used that to cook that off of it and they'd cook that and they used that and that lye and make a bar of soap, Grandma would make it where you could cut it. out in bars similar to what uh people have forgot about now and I don't know when I have seen what any know as octagon soap a lot of people used, -8- Q, That lye soap was it uh wasn't it, it would really clean wouldn I t it,? A, Really clean, They 1d bring their clothes down here. Grandma hnd her old washpot right down there and had what you call a battling .bench, She had a paddle of a thing made out o.f good hickry wood and they'd put those clothes in that kettle and boil em, with that lye soap added then they Id take them up on that battling bench and they'd take that stick and they'd pound them something similar to what normally what people might before they got so many vacuum cleaners would call uh beating the rug. Q, They'd actually whip the clothes? /\. They whipped em and beat, em with that and tl'llen by the time you put back in and rinsed em they would be snowy white. By the way, one thing my grandmother use to tell me when I was a boy was that it was no disgrace to wear clothes that were patched so long as they were clean, but she insisted that they be clean. Q, Would you say that there's not many of the old trees left around here are there? A. Well, as I told you about the big hickry a while ago, of course it passed out a number of years ago, Of course, there's these two big, well there Is tho big oak behind you and then the oak over there near the surup mill pan and the one at mill and the one down near the pan. Now those trees us back when I was only uh about fourteen year old they looked as big back then to me as they do now. Q, In other words, they haven't changed much? I\, Not very much and of course you know that some of the bigger ones here has got limbs as big as a lot of people would call em a tree, Those are the white oak tree, they're not the post oak, Now a lot of post oaks is good wood for making posts I think probably derived it's name for that because it last a long time even in the ground it didn't rot off but the white oak was a little bit stul'dier tree. The post oak have a tendacy to some way to become dotent or doty or rot out or something other and not a long a life span as the white oak. Q, What does that 11doty11 mean? A, It means it's rotten on the inside it gets holler, gets insects in em. Eat a little mol'e and a little more and finally a heavy wind would topple em over. As you can see, they I re still heal thy. Yeah, they're vel'y, very old, You can tell by looking at them, no telling how many they -9- Q. Did anybody in the family ever make chairs or anything like that? A. Well, grandpa, he he made his chairs and they also made these cotton baskets. It's out of splits. Q. Out of white oak? A. Out of white oak. He'd go around and picking him out the nice white oak he'd want, split it out and he had what he called his froe to rive his boards out of and he dried lots of fruit and grandma use to cook lots of little fried pies, apple pies and peach pies and sweet potater pies. Q. Did uh grandpa ever uh did you ever see him make a mallet or mall? A. Oh they all back then all the old timers had their mall. Q. And how would you make a mall. A. Well, a mall would be made preferably out of a blnck gum or a dogwood or something like that, approximately six or eight inches in diameter, and then you'd leave uh approximately ten or twelve inches of that and then you'd cut down then to a fine handle from there back out, and youa use that with your froe. You'd use that yeah well now, on making your board riving them they'd have a little small one more or less made practically the same way. Some people might call it a mallet what they'd use now but they were made the same principal except a lot smaller. The froe was made straight out and the handle sticking straight up at a right. angles to it. They'd put that up there then to hit that down and rive it to split their boards and that way they keep coming on down the last and they could push whichever way they want to to make the boards split on a straight and they use that some in making their splits and they do a lot of it by hand there. They get it and if the splits gets too dry they put em in water let em soften up. Q. Di.d grandpa know how to make baskets? A. Grandpa made his own cotton baskets and a lot of em for uh sell some, You know basket making is pretty well dying out now, Oh there I s there I s not many people oh there I s very .few. Once in a while on T. V. a while back it was very interesting to see some old man still making his baskets, I believe he was some 80 odd years old. Did he uh Phil Flynn, I believe was interviewing him, Q. Did he ever show you how to do it? A. No uh grandpa when I was around he always had his baskets made and he didn't make none at. that time. Back then he had already got some older and he was still carrying on his gardening and had his apple orchard and peach orchard back on the mountain and he did have one thing too I forgot to tell you he had a cider mill. I I told you he had a cider apple, He'd grind up them uh apples -10- he hnd a press and make cider. Q. Was it the uh cider like we know uh today or would it make apple j aok or what? A. Well, no just the straight out apple ,Juice is cider, Of course you could take that and make a applejack or some people the experts could take it and make a wine they enjoyed mighty good, Grandpa was a very industrious character, He one thing he told me he would say 11goshdingit 11 was a word and occasionally you'd hear him say "goshding it I God". Goshding it I God son, my motto is "first up, butt cut, and fomus row" and he almost lived up to that, Q. He uh, where did he come from? A, Far as I know I don't know but anyhow he was from around Georgia somewhere because he was in that uh Civil War and as I told you before he was on the engine on the railroad, He had uh for his power here he had an old black mustang mare and black, Her tail would drag the ground, and I'm of opinion she was well above fourty years old when she died and up until practically the time she did die out she'd run away at the drop of ye hat. One of my uncles , told it on grandpa one time that, of course as I told you, very seldom did a car come through here, My grandpa had started up to Falsome where we come through probably to get some corfee or something like that don 1t know ror sure what, maybe to carry some eggs to sell, but anyhow there was one doctor there at Falsome old Dr. Bradley, I believe had an automobile and on around a li1.tle further over there oh not over a mile or so, there was another doctor in there, Dr, Dikes. But anyhow, my uncle told it Uncle Jim Green told it on grandpa that he'd started to town to Falsome and he heared a oar coming, He stopped right quick and took out this old mare named old Minne, He took her out and carried her way down in the woods and tied her, Well, bout the time he got her tied the car had got up pretty close. Grandpa was going to pull the buggy out of the road where the car could get by, Wadn 1t room for them to hardly pass back tn them days a car or two cars without getting way out, and said about the time grandpa got between the shaft and went to pull it up he cranked up his motor and Uncle Jim told it, on grandpa that he got soared and run off and tore up the buggy. Ha! Ha? Ha! Ha! He barbecued too sometime. One time he liked his fish, but one time here he was going to barbecue or kill a goat and barbecue it and Uncle Jim Green lived right down there and he was down at the spring right down there and uh they went t.o ]rill the goat. Grandpa went to throw him down to cut his throat and the old goat blated, Uncle ,Tim Green said the goat said "Grandpaaaaaaaaaaaa ! 11 Ha ! Ha! Ila! Ha! ~. Well, how did they well how would they make barbecue then? -11- /\, Well, I uh they done that not me. I don't know, Q, They never did show you how huh? /\, I was just young you know. You know there Is not too many people that know how to make good barbecue now, Barbecue now the old fashioned way is about a lost art Joe, and now some of our better barbecuers are around Rome such as Joe Adams and Lee Pe,ry and them they will put it on a pit and use some hickry wood under it and they use charcoal and they cook the meat a while enough to give it sort of a taste and flavor it a little bit and then they take it out and cut it up fine in little small chunks and they put it in a pan uh some of the pans will be approximately eighteen inches wide and maybe three feet long and four inches deep. They put a nice layer of meat in there and then put the sauce in there and then boil it a long time that a way, Barbecue that I've seen cooked a lot of times and enjoyed so much if a man wanted to barbecue he'd take a half of a hog that would weigh oh around 200 pounds mostly and run two bars through it and we had thar middlins and the ham and the shoulder on the same on the same thing and he 1d start it early yesterd,sy evening cook it all night and up to that time, He'd have him coals burnt down out of hickry wood and added a few coals under there once in a while, He'd first start out with this uh brine water, put a lot of salt in the water with a big mop and just mop that meat for a period of several hours and he Id turn it over all long and he Id mop that side and when he got his salt in and later he had his sauce made up then and he used lemon juice, black pepper and butter and just lots of things like that really made barbecue where it would do to eat--just no comparison if we could have some like we use to have then. What were you going to say? Ha! It's on ain't it? I ain I t going to say what I started to. Oh yeah, back then being raised around public works and never farmed or nothing started out that year and had some great times. Long in the spring this bronco mare we Id bought, I Id plowed her til eleven o I clock and I thought I had her whipped down a little and I got her over there got her on a stump and I jumped on her, Scared her and she went running hard to go down the hill down there over there, stumbled and like to fell down and I went off over her shoulder and broke broke my right collar bone, Q, How old wore you then? A, Oh that was about I was about fifteen. Didn't make but four bales of cotton. Made lots of peas though and corn, Me and my dad like I told you had worked all winter to pay out a debt back where we got the man to take back the mare, We had bought her, We lost some money on it but we managed to pay our rent and gnaner bill, then cut cordwood to finish out paying out a debt, Hewing cross ties, peeling tan bark, Back then people worked, Q, What do you mean by peeli.ng tan bark? -12- ,\, That I s a chestnut oak. It I s not it I s the only oak that uh of that kind, Soma people call it a chestnut oak or soma people refer to it as a mountain oak, It don't grow everywhere. It has a bark that the these tanning people such as Boney Allan over at Buford and a lot of people used it for tanning hides, Now, of course, they use a chemical or some other kind but you out the tree down and split the bark and you'd peel off sometimes big pieces five or six feet long and maybe be an inch thick 01 more. Now we 1re approaching up here nm~ see the house yonder on the left? Well I lived there last year I farmed in here. There Is where the landlord lived Sollie Hightower, We lived right there, I farmed seven acces of cotton back over on that little mountain but all you see through here now where all these pines are here I cultivated that in corn, A lot of difference in farming too now than it was back then, You done it back then with a mule and a single plow stock and one implement with several spring teeth rererred to as a "gee whiz" and I know that corn patch there, I'd even run through the middle with a gee whiz and the corn was tosslin enough where you'd get the tossle to fall down your neck, As you }mow, I have an unusually good garden now and big garden for most anyone especially I think for a feller my age, Anyhow the county agent comes out to see me all along and he advises anyone to lay their corn by when it's knee high, So you see, you were actually hurting the corn when you plowed it and it was so tall like the old timers use to. Q. What about uh hunting for your game? Did you do much hunting back then? A, Well, I uh growed up with a single guage sixteen guage shotgun, Well I wadn 1t hardly big enough to shoot it my daddy being a railroad man being ol'f away from home a lot he always kept me with plenty of shells and there was a lot of times I'd put that single barrel through the fork of some bush to shoot a big old yellowhannner or dove or somethin a hawk or somethin like that, I turned out to be a rather a good shot, use to seldom miss a bird or squirrel or anything but a rabbit running as long as I was hunt with that single barrel. Q, What did yall do uh for meat back then? Did you have hogs? 11. Nearly everybody growed their own meat particularly the hogs, Q, What about beef'/ II. Well, tho re I s a good portion of the people would kill em a beef along, Course I remember many times when I was younger going to the smoke house and have a quarter of' beef in there hung just to let it dry. You take you knife and out you off some and eat it and without even cooking it, It tasted better than your modern dried beef you buy now which is very expensl.ve, Of course, you -13- could carry your meat to the sprang bury it down there and keep it for a week at a time you know beneath the water surface cause sprang be cold. Was some people where they didn 1t have a sprang would let their milk down in the well to keep it cool, Everybody liked their cold milk. In fact people may not realize it but milk unless it 1s homogenized or something else done to it or kept cool in a matter of uh well twenty-four hours anyway it would become blinky and later it clabbered what you called getting ready to churn then make your butter, Q, What would yall how would you cure your meat? Did you have a smoke house or did you use uh salt cure? A. Well, uh sugar cured wadn 1t known much beck in them days muoh. The meat was killed and you'd have to have ioe on the ground of the morning to be feir open weather. Ye kill your meat, dress it nicely and you Id put it in the smoke house spread it out and maybe rub your joints a little bit with salt that night. Go out there the next morning then and trim it nice then you'd salt it dmin put a lot of salt to it. Later some of the other people if you want to do something a little unusual let them hams when they'd cured out pretty good and done took to the salt and everything, they'd take em up and dip it in uh in a kettle or washpot full of holing water and rub boric acid on it and sometimes some pepper and maybe a little brown sugar or something like that and wrap it up and keep it that way. Q, Did that make it not quite as salty or? /\, \/ell the salt primarily depends on your weather, Can, have seen some country meat that would stay in the meat box up til you got ready to eat it and still not be salty. Get meat too salty like brine I'd rather have a good good grade of bacon homemade cured bacon that hadn't been over salted than have ham where it's like that, Did uh, But the hams cured properly back in those days was mighty fine eating, especially the people referred to it as 11suzy-eyed gravy" they'd sop that up too with their biscuits and eat it. Q. How would you make that? /\, That's where you fry your meat and you'd eet your meat like you want it and you Id take it up and while your [;Pease is still hot pour in just a little bit of coffee in it and that'd make you 11suzy-eyed or brown-eyed" gravy, Q. Mighty good with biscuits isn't it'/ ii. Mighty good with biscuits! Q. Did you make your own sausage? A. Oh yes! Everyone back them days h,9d em a sausa1se mill, wound -14- their own sausage and it wasn't nothin uncommon for people to kill em usually a yearling along about the same time and make up what they called a "mixed sausage" which you don't see on the market now, If' you do, it's not very etible or it 1s not tasty like it was in those days. Q, What about fishing and uh wild game and that sort of. thing? Did your dad ever kill many deer or did your grandpa ever kill many deer and go out? /\, As far as I know neither one of em never killed a deer, They had killed wild turkeys. Of course, rabbit was considered mighty fine eating back then too. You'd kill a nice rabbit and dress him and fry him good and make some good uh gravy with him, "thickenine gr,wy11 was what it was referred to then, Now some people call it "sawmill gravy", Put that on top of ye high top biscuits and it eat mighty fine, And a squirrel a squirrel was good eating frled or if it was an older squirrel sometimes they would make squirrel dumplings which was mighty fine. Q, How would you make your squirrel dumplings? /1., Well, uh I know my wife has made it a lot of a times. By tho way, she use to make a squirrel stew too that your dad was mighty fond of but you'd put your older squirrel down you'd have to boil em over a pretty good period of time til you got your meat tender and then they'd make up their dough similar to what you Id make for biscuits, put that in there ancl boil thllt, Course you put some black pepper 'n salt and season it a little bit, My dad always liked two or three rabbits cooked together with a little bit of fresh pork boiled in the same pot with them mighty good, Chased the rabbit a little bit and the pork even tasted mighty fine uh, Q. I remember going to the fish frys that you'd make fish bread. How did you fix fish bread? What is fish bread? A, Well uh people usually referred to fish bread as hush puppies which a lot of em make out of cornmeal and maybe a few other lHtle things. uh your Uncle Lane makes one of the best hushpuppies I know of hut an far as I know I'm the only one that ever started out to making what I refer to as .fish bread. That's after you get your fish browned, you done got through and your grease is still hot, you just throw slices of loaf bread in there and by the way, they I re brown very quickly. You brown both sides and put it out on a cardboard or Scott towel or something nother. You can eat that and H I s got a mighty fine flavor and it's not necessarily no greasier than you, as much as your fish would be. Q, When did you first start doing this? A, I first started doing that in Commerce. '1/e use to they 1d put -15- it off on me over there they'd cook about 40 or 50 pounds of fish couple of weeks or so. We had a place. By the way, I might tell em too Joe, that I moved over there work with the Power Company and I lived there from 1924 on up to 1937. Very fraternally active and we went to church quite a bit, but they'd want that fish. We had a place called Rocky Ford. We put up uh top of a big range on a uh rock furnace they'd built for it. Water was plenty hot I mean the fire would r,et plenty hot and had plenty of fresh good water to wash the first and someday just for curiosity somethin another I throwed in a few slices of bread and they all went for it so much that they went to hollering and ever since they were crazy for it. Q. What about your daddy up around Jasper and all through there? Did he ever tell you about any of the old people who come through up there from North Carolina or how it was? D:ld they uh settle in log cabins or anything like that? A. WeJl uh, I remember when my grandfather died he lived there what they called "Reeves Mountain". Uh that was in a log house. Q. Did he build it himself? A. No, Grandpa Reece didn 1t build that. He Wlls in the service and got wounded and he died out when uh I wadn I t about some I presume five or six years old, Remember a quite smart about Mm, He was suppose to have been uh Scotch, Welsh and Irish. He talked a lot about his four foot boards and things like that and my grandma she claimed to be Indish and England, Indian and English. She lived approximately ninety years old and she talked a lot about Indians and some of the Indian songs and Indian ways. One of her old IndiAn songs I remember just a little of it wa,1 that she said it was about an Indian and his gun and dog, It was: "Skeet lie, lookie lie Hey lookie yonder Hey you! Hi wickie Hi wiclde ! Hey you wah 11 That was one of her Indian songs. Q, What kind of Indian was that, Cherokee? II. Yeah, she 1s Cherokee. She claimed to be a sixteenth. However, she'd received no Indi,m money that I know of. Uh, you've been to Jasper. One of the boys 1 wives up there uh has a daughter that's a Inez. She married George Mashburn I believe is his name, You see, her and she one time worked up there at one of the freezer lockers. 1111 the truckers came in there called her "Minnie Ha! Ha!" and she looked like an Indian and still does even though she's bit middle age now, Q, Did you ever hear your granddaddy or your daddy talk about any of the times of in their boyhood like games they use to play -16- or anything like that? A, Well my daddy and uh some of my younger brothers went in a whole lot for baseball. My two youngest uncles, Uncle Lee and Uncle Hill, now they'd make their own baseballs, Q. How would they make it? A. They'd get their string and everything and wind it good and tight and then they'd have there somewhere where a horse hml died or something and they'd get that horse hide and they'd tan it and they'd out it out where it would just exactly fit and they'd use two needles. It was sewed and looked and felt just like your baseball your modern baseballs of today. Also dad went in he had I 1ve seen uh as in my younger days whatever went with it some trophies where he had won hisself as uh long jump and also throwing the farthest baseball than of anyone else at some of these gatherings they'd have, Q, This would have been about when? When in about the early /\. That would have been back when I was rather young. But anyhow my uncles even though they lived around the mountains there they'd grow no cotton, they'd do some truck patching and lat.er on a lot of em sawmilled quite a bit owned sawmills and steers, have two ox three yokes of steers to do the logging with, haul t.he lumber with. Q. The steer, would that be the same thing as an ox? A. That would be the same thing as an ox or gentleman cow that. had lost. his social st.anding in the community which he resides! One lawyer or nigger referred to the ,judge as a 11bar-hog" one time what a 11bar-hog11 was. Uh, but they would not work on Saturdays especially Saturday evenings, t.hey 1d have t.o play ball. Played ball on Saturday evening, One of them pitched and t.he other one oatched. Q, Did they have a team? A. Oh yes! They all belonged to a baseball team. Q. Did uh we uh in the class heard about. something that. they use to do back int.he early right. after or before t.he Civil War and shortly aft.er in south Georgia called a "gander pulling". Have you ever heard them talk about that.? A, Candy pulling'/ Q, Naw, gander pulling. A, No, I 1ve never seen of any gander pulling but I have candy pulling, Q. ln1ere you pull candy from syrup? -17- /\, Well, they take some syrup and other stuff and make i.t up someway, I'm not particular about the recipe part but get it out. gets so hot, Well ye have your grease then then you pull a certain way and you just keep pulling and working and finally that candy gets plum cold and be dried out hard as your modern stick day candy, Had a lot of candy pullings, box suppers and cake walks and things like that to raise money for schools or some other charitable organization, Q, Also, did you ever play a musical instrument back when you were growing up? /\ . Well my daddy played the violin, fiddle. young I went to pickin the banjo. I use and sang some, Back when I was rather to pick a banjo a lot Q. ',/here did you get your songs? Just A. Just old time hillbilly songs, They were modern back in them days, Q, Did your daddy make his own fiddle or did he buy it? /\, No, he bought his fiddle but he made his turkey caller out of beechwood and use that thing where it would get results, go just like a turkey hen, Q, You know, a lot of the things a bout the old ways are dying out because some of the older people you know are dying out that know these things, crafts and sayings and uh just all of it Is dying, What do you think 1s going to happen to it? /\, Hell, back in about the time I was grown or hardly so much there would be somebody usually when they people better off financially sometimes they'd have the old Edison grapanola, It wouldn't be unusual thing about walking two or three miles a lot of times and stay til bedtime and hear em play that thing for you, Sometimes you'd have a serenade called something similar now to a Halloween nl.ght, And too, a lot of people would gather up somehow and sang songs, tell jokes and things but that was way ahead of the radio, T.V. or anything like that, In fact, I don't think I even seen a telephone until I was up a pretty good sized boy, Didn't own nar radio until about 19 and 25 or 26, I guess the first radio I ever owned, The radio, 1', V. or something is still making progress and in the future you'll probably see when you call somebody on the telephone you can sl.t there and look ,,t em just like your talking to em same as T.V, People mAko progress or may get broke or something happen and don't know what the future holds, but we 1re permitted to carry on you'd probably see a good many changes, probably as many in your lifetime as I've seen in this long tween 76 or 77 years of mine, Q, I 1ve often heard said about the good old days, Do you think those were really the good old days? -18- A, Hell, in a way they WllZ, The people were honest, you weren't afraid to go to bed with your doors and windows open, If a stranger come by part.icularly around mealtime, you'd insist he 1d come in and eat and you weren't uneasy about being robbed or beat up or nothing like that, Of course, you didn't have the fine foods that you might refer to of today but you always had satisfying, life sustaining, good substantial food to eat. People eat a lot of sweet potat,ers and different ways and pies and baked and candied yams. Irish Potaters could be fixed a number of ways and they had their corn bread and their homemade butter, plenty of milk and of course as I said before, nearly everybody growed their own meat and had their own good meat to eat. Most everybody growed a lot of peas. They eat a lot of dried peas, It was good days in a way but no money much, Now you talking about that made me think of somebody went to visit their city kin folks several. years ago and went back home then and they asked mother and daddy asked me how they was getting along, was they in very bad shape, They were working public works. Said you know thoy have to go to the store everyday to get, something to eat. Q, That was considered bad? A, Considered bad by that boy because he was use to living in the country you know where they had plenty to eat. Had a smoke house around where they could get what they wanted to eat without having to go to town after it. Q. What do you think is going to happen? A, Joe, it's unpredictable. To me, I've never seen a time like just this, As you know, I've been through the Hoover days but now you do have your bank deposits insured, You have long term contracts for your unions. You have your social. security, your pensions. If things were like they was back prior to that you Id already he in one of the worst depressions that anybody would ever seed, even uh counting the Grover Cleveland days or the Hoover days either one. Right now I'm hoping the Congress or the President, ns you know, this will go down probably just ahead of the election and I am of the opinion that immediately after the election that our President Mr. Ii'ord wUl call for some strict reactions to the high prices of sugar and meat and possibly put conl;rols on wages and everything else. I look for a roll hnck, If not Joe, with the present price of gasoline, sugar and other. things and so much money going into foreign countries, it would be hard to say what the future will hold. There's no doubt in my mind that the communists would like for us to get weak and take over any day that they could, I don't think it would be to good to and I do think that we have some of our niggers that's ignorant enough that they play into the communists' hands thinking they'd he better off, hnt the nigger wouldn't be no more to them than nobody else, Q, I guess you didn I t hnve this p1obl0m hack in the old days d:ld yon? -19- t\, Not in the old days, Q, You didn 1t have these modern thi.ngs to worry about did you? A. People didn I t get so much news. You get news maybe some people might take a paper out in the country. I know I took one a period of years even young as uh tri-weekly. You get three papers a week, Q. What was the name of it? A. The Atlanta Journal I believe is what I took back about the time your mother was born right along in there which as you know, that's been a pretty good bit ago. Q, How would uh the news filter down to you when you say around when you lived around close to your grandpa und all through there/ How 1d you get your news? ll, Back in my erandpa I s days you just have usually happened what somebody told you in there around maybe five or ten miles radius. Be somebody come by and tell you if something happened, Somebody died that word usually get out pretty well. Back in them days too, there was no embalming nothing ll.ke that. Even my grandfather on my daddy's side was buried in a homemade cauffin. That was howe1rer, was his request and they had some big wide heart poplar planks in the loft and took em out and I remember very distinctively they took what they call a jack plane and planed em good and smooth and they took a saw then and sawed them approximately half into across ways about every half inch apart where they could shape it and shape the casket just like they wanted it. Inside and outside was covered with black silk, Q. Do you remember seeing it? Ii., Yeah I remember seeing it, I remember seeing em make it. Q, How long would it take them to make a casket like that? Ii., Oh they the boys all of them wei-e u,mally good craft.men. It took em they worked on 1 t nearly a half a day and he was buried there at Philadelphia Church near Jasper and uh I presume the marble company still does, it's buried dug down the depth of where a vault would be and then in that red clay hewed out then just enough to shape for a little clearance for the casket to set it down in it, Then they was covered then with marble slabs some six or eif(ht inches wide and about an inch and half thick 01 two inches, Q. 11.nd it was your Grandd1:1ddy neece? A. That was my Granddaddy Reece, '-l. How old was he when he died'? -20- A. My grandfather wasn't too old. He was some I presume, somewhere in his fifties early fifties if it was. Q. Of course, people didn't live as long back then sometimes d:l.d they? A. Naw, a lot of them didn't. A lot of people died younger. There was one thing the food they h1Jd hack then was healthier, Now then a lot of' people eat t,heirself to death. 1.'hey over eat. Eat rich foods and foods they don't have to chew so that's why I think you see so many people wearing false teeth today, not eating the proper things and not having the proper nourishment. However, as you know, the manufacturer tries to add all the additives to it, such as minerals, C and D and so on, Q, I guess what you 1re really trying to say is that they were good old days hut do you think you would want to go back to them? A. No not really. I'm more fortunate I think than a lot of people my age in having worked at one of the trades in a better profession where I have good social security as well as two pensions. Q. Your trade was an electrician wasn't it? A. My trade was an electrician, Started out as a lineman and then later a utility man with them then went in as a electrician. Of' course, in the meantime in growing up I learn to lay stone, f-tnish concrete and work any kind of carpenter work I wanted to do. As you know, the house in the country you know I drawed the plans and supervised and done most, of' the work on it, Q. These t,rades and building crat'ts you learned from your rather then didn I t you'/ A. Yes my dad even though his schooling he had primarily from what he ref'erred to as a "blue back speller" my daddy could figure any amount of concrete or amount of stone or earth or just about anything in the world he wanted to figure and could do just about any kind of work he wanted to so such as blacksmithing or anything like that, Of course, I picked up a lot of that from him and he tried to show me and tell me everything which nearly any daddy would do it' the boy was interested. However, I think now you find a lot or them are not interested in the old man. They think a lot of times the old man is mighty crazy. Q. A lot of' times they just don't have the crafts to pass on like they use too, A, That's possible there too, But you know I've shod lots of' horses and mules Joe, set and put the new shoe in the hlacksmith shop and make it, up to Lit; I've trimmed a horses hoot' and nail it on, wrapped it up, shrunk wagon tires and made parts for the -21- wagon, use to sharpen pl0\4S, use t,o could do just about anything, In fact;, at one time I owned a little barber shop up there in Plainville go over there and work, take off from the farm and go over there and work on Saturdays back in there, take in as high as ::)18 or ::)20 a day which was a lot of money for them clnys nt 15 fo1 a shave and a quarter for a hair cut, By the way, when I moved out from there too I sold my shop and the former deputy sheriff here now who is retired was Ervin Coker that 1s in Floyd County, Rome, Georgia, Q. So it's good ole days but you don't think you'd kind of -.mnt to go back to them? A. Now I like my I like my news media and most of the time it 1 s good ancl fair and you have some interesting programs on, If you got some interesting job you need to do though I don't think that your T.V. programs nor movies is worth your sacrifice your time for such as if I got something in my garden needs looking after or wanta go hird hunting, wanta go see about my chickens or things like that. Q. Hell, if you had some advice to young people today that's in school, what would you tell them or the young people in today's society, what advice would you give em? A. The main thing I would say is learn to work and whatever trade you have, try to be tops in it, Try to do you a honest days work nncl whatever you do work you do, do it right. Don't turn it off to see how easy you can get loose from it leave it, half undone. Don't look for Saturday night payday, Be honest with yourself. Be yourself, an individual. See Photograph No, 21. -22- .,,' . ' ,, "lc"ll"i , l .. 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':: .~tt-'~::-:' : . . . ,' I I j/f ,t; ~ -~'.~ ,,,,.:;/'"*- flfo1o6!?11-PH /1/0.21 Jlt ':;]$!%+ -RELEASE- Dy letting us collect your trad1.tions--atories, sonr,s, music, rememberences, or beliefs of earlier days--you have made a valuable contribution to preservinr, and understanding Southern history, and especially the 1-1ay of life of your community. Because you have r,iven unselfishly of your time to do this, the Georgia Folklore Archives, whose representatives are dedicated to preservinr; these traditions, wants to protect your rights to thia material by p,uaranteeinfl that it will not be used for unscrupulous commercial profits. By signing this sheet, you are givinB us permission to use this 1uaterial for educational purposes so that people who are interested can understand how life 11as in the old days. Ir you don't want your name to be used, say so--we respect your right to privacy. Thank you for the time you have p,iven to help us record a heritage that in an important part of American life, "In consideration of my intent in helpine; to preserve my folk heritar;e, I hereby grant permission to the Georgi'! Folk Archives and its Director, John Burrison, to publish, ot otherwise make use of, the material recorded from me by the agent of the Georgia Folklore Archives whose name appears on this sheet. ' Sigqed .=7~-uJ . l!e eci -e.., Georcia Folklore Archives c/o Professor John Burrison Georgia State University 33 Gilmer Street Southeast Atlanta, Georflia 30303 Address /fj ;Vc1,i'ttlool) ,<;f, A PDF transcript exists for this recording. Please contact an archivist for access. Professor John Burrison founded the Atlanta Folklore Archive Project in 1967 at Georgia State University. He trained undergraduates and graduate students enrolled in his folklore curriculum to conduct oral history interviews. 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