Christopher Billingsley interview with Willie B. Grigges (part two)

The John Burrison Georgia Folklore Archive recordings contains unedited versions of all interviews. Some material may contain descriptions of violence, offensive language, or negative stereotypes reflecting the culture or language of a particular period or place. There are instances of racist language and description, particularly in regards to African Americans. These items are presented as part of the historical record. This project is a repository for the stories, accounts, and memories of those who chose to share their experiences for educational purposes. The viewpoints expressed in this project do not necessarily represent the viewpoints of the Atlanta History Center or any of its officers, agents, employees, or volunteers. The Atlanta History Center makes no warranty as to the accuracy or completeness of any information contained in the interviews and expressly disclaims any liability therefore. If you believe you are the copyright holder of any of the content published in this collection and do not want it publicly available, please contact the Kenan Research Center at the Atlanta History Center at 404-814-4040 or reference@atlantahistorycenter.com. This is the second of a two-part recording. Willie B. Grigges starts by recalling when his parents scared him and his siblings with stories about the devil who they also called the bad man. He also remembers childhood experiences and stories that led to his fear of snakes, turtles, and bears. Then at 5:58, he tells humorous stories about a man mistaking a fish for a watch and his father knocking out a mule. Next at 9:25, Grigges discusses growing up picking cotton on his fathers farm, tending livestock, and when a steer escaped to La Grange, Georgia. At 13:06, he remembers growing peanuts and playing a game to win peanuts. At 14:17, Grigges remembers stories his grandfather told him about when he was enslaved, such as escaping slave patrols, or paddy rollers; facing punishment for learning to read, write, and pray; and how enslaved persons tricked a patrol to avoid punishment. At 21:36, Grigges tells several humorous stories mostly about the church, followed at 27:10 with a joke about two sisters named Patience and Sally, and then one about his father beating a mule. The recording finishes at 29:22 with Grigges stating his birthday and discussing places where he has lived. Willie B. Grigges (1902-1986) was born in Meriwether County, Georgia, to John and Anna Grigges. He worked as a minister and a custodian at Atlanta churches and schools. Additional biographical information has not been determined. Stories, Jokes, Superstitions, and Background of Willie B, Grigges: A Taped Transcript, FOLKLORE 300 Dr. John Burrison Fall, 1974 Christopher Billingsley The collection of stories, jokes, superstitions and descriptions of the old life, as told by Willie B, Grigges, evolve around the simple and organized world of the farm life, This simple family, which consisted of grandparents and relatives living in the vicinity, enabled it to preserve its past traditions very successfully, Willie B, Grigges, the fifth in a family of twelve, was born on Sept, 18, 1902, to John and Anna Grigges of Merriweather County, fifteen miles below Newnan, Georgia, On a small farm that John Grigges rented, Willie grew up as a child, and did not leave it until he was to be married, Willie was a typical farm child, obeying his parents, working hard and getting into occasional mischief along with his brother and sisters, He listened and learned stories from both his grandfather, who was born a slave, and his father, who was a parttime Baptist minister, From these strong influences, Willie became a master story teller and a good source on post-civil war years, Willie, as he likes to be called, has a fant,;\.stic memory, During our interview I was able to ask questions an a variety of topics and he would soon respond with a number of good stories, jokes on local color that made the interview easy and unrestrained, He was very attentive and agreed to talk on any subject that I wanted, Willie is a black man, and his racial identity filters through and into his stories, But there is no bitter overtones to his stories, only ones of misunderstanding and prayerfulness, hoping that one day his position on the social scale would change, Willie is also a religious man, In him, there is a strange combination of the modern and folk religions, He was born a Baptist and his father hoped that Willie would also become a minis.ter like himself, The two shared a church at China Grove after Willie became a minister 2. in the late 1920's, Later in 1950, Willie came under the influence of the Roman Catholic Church in Decatur, where he still works as the custodian of the buildings, In 1959, he converted to Catholicism, but retained his Baptist background, This is evident in his tales of the church and his discussion of how to pray for God's gifts, Willie is now seventy-two years old, but still works part-time at St, Thomas More School in Decatur, During my interview, I was unable to touch on every subject in his folklore background, Not only is Willie a fine story-teller, but also a good musician and ( fiddler, The large source of folklore in Willie B, Grigges is still ready to be heard, The interview took place at St, Thomas More on November 12, 1974 at 9:00 and lasted about 40 minutes, Due to the noise, we were forced to change locations half-way through the interview, Only one story is left with transcripts and it pertained to a non-folklore situation, 3, Willie1 The firstt:hing I can remember growin up, when I was really a small kid my mama use to teach us that if we couldn't do things right, the bad man would get us, We called the devil the bad man, He had long horns, had a pitchfork, and had a big fire, And if he catch you on that pitch fork, he would put you into his mouth and spit you into (the) fire, And we tried to be good, So now that's one of the things, And the next thing was, they use to paint their face with smut out of the back of the chimmey. And not all of them, but maybe one or two of them come around at night, open the door, an run into the house, and play dat they was devils, And we run under the bed thinkin it was the devil but it wasn't, C,B,: Were these the adults? Willie: Yeah. Now, of course our mama and father wanted to school us and they thought it helped, and it probably did, We didn't know any better. And uh, there was a , , and as I grew up and began to learn better and think better, I began to forget those kind of things, You know like forget in my mind but my eyes would still see um. But I wasn't afraid of um and wh,,,,, The next thing I'm scared yet, And I'm scared through my life is a snake, A snake, I'm scared of a snake without even thinkin, When I was first married, about two years after that, I got sick, in 1926, Got down to my feet so I couldn't walk, Daddy moved us to the country and I'se and my wife was takin in a little bitty house out at the end of his, And we was just sittin down to eat dinner one day, it was real hot that day, when I saw something head stickin through the fire place 'bout that big, (About two inches) I, looked and he came rollin out and man he was slick, onto one of the tables, I walked dat day, 1 hadn't been but 1 got up and got out the window, Boy, 1 grab it and kicked it to death out der window, So we burned some rages and some came out from under the house, My brother shot at it and my daddy hit it with a hoe, but 1 still scared of um, That's one of my scarier experiences. And the next thing was I've always been scared of a turtle, you know, 1 always heard when 1 was growin up, that if a turtle got 4. aholt of your toe it would hold you till it thundered! Have you ever heard of that? C,B, Till it thundered? Willie1 Yeah, C,B. No, I didn't,, Willie1 And I believe that story, And uh, I was goin, and it had been rainin, bout a couple of weeks, we were livin in central (Georgia), and 1 was walkin around the edge of the woods and it was rainin and (1) got down close to a branch, and a big old turtle started runnin, 1 mean he was a big un, 'bout the biggest you ever saw, And dat scared me to death, and 1 ran over to my grandmother's house cause 1 was scared to death, C,B, What were some of the other things people were scared of when you were a kid, Willie: Well, we was scared of monkies and bears and things like dat, Man came to the country once, had a bear, and a music box in a cabinet, and if you had any money you would pay him a small fee and he would play dat music and the bear would dance, And if you didn't have no money to give him, him and the bear were both walkin, you could give him a cup of coffee or same bread and still he would let the bear dance, 1 use to hear Mom and them say there was heisman, You know what 5. a heisman is? He use to put clothes, tie um up in an oil cloth ball and he was walkin in the country and it said he found a watch in the road, and he heard it tickin and he thought it was cussin, And so he walked to the edge of the road and got some rocks and said, "now you got to stop cussin," It wouldn't stop so he threw rocks and tore it up. So on down the line further he found some people and this man asked um, "Say 1 lost my watch and have you seen it?'1 And he said no, what is a watch, And he showed him how round it looked and how it ticked, So he said, "1 saw it bout a mile down the road and it was cussin at me, so I got mad and well I tore it up," So he carried the man back an he said, "This here is my watch," He said if you find anything like this it's valuable, You can take it and sell it to somebody and get some good money, So he went on then and he saw a little tarpin in the road, jumpin and kickin his legs, So he picked him up and stuck him in his coat pocket, Went on down the road and some old people were workin and they said, "Say, mister, do you know what time it is?" He pulled out (the tarpin) and looked at it and said, "Yeah, it's ten o'clock and kickin like hell for eleven," (hard laughter) That sorry,,. ,he thought it was a time piece ~i,se it was kickin, Oh me, C,B, That's a good story, Willie: Yes sir, So 1 remember my daddy was plowin once, and had a mule named Mann, So he went to unhitch the mule's traces to go up to the house to get some water and the mule was standin there when he got back and so this mule kicked him, with both his feet between my daddy's head, you know, And neither one of them did strike, So he went out to the edge of the woods and got a pole and whipped this mule on top of the head and dropped (snap of the finger) like dat, It was a very fine mule, Papa almost picked the mule up cause he didn't kill him, but just knocked the fool out of him, (laughter) C,B, Your father must have been a strong man, 6. Willie1 Well, he was bigger than I was, and uh, that's the way that was. C,B, Did you grow up on the farm? Willie: Right, C.B. What part of Georgia? Willie: Merriweather County, That's my home, It's just right below Macon, I was an old farm boy, Me, my brother, and one sister use to start out everyday to pick cotton, We picked about 180 pounds apiece, C,B, How much did you get paid? Willie: Well, that was his (Willie's father) farm so we didn't get paid nuthin, No, he bring us back sometimes a can of sardines, big hunk of cheese and we thought we was gettin something, It was a lot better we is doin now, Now we is all by ourselves, So that's what we use to do, We use to have to milk cows and tend to hogs, I remember my daddy had a steer, and he and my uncle was goin to k.ill um, So they got a chain and tied him to a tree and my uncle hit him in the head with an ax, just drawed back and popped him, and it made him (the cow) mad, So he broke that chain and chased my uncle up the tree, about to kill him, So finally my daddy got the shotgun, put a shell in it and shot him right at the top of the head, Yeah, after he fired, he dropped, Then we had a male cow, you know, a stock cow, He was bad and when he'd get out, he'd go fifteen, twenty, thirty, forty .. miles, just leave home and go to the country, We got in the buggy one day, lookin for him, he'd fight you too, and we found him way up in La Grange, Georgia, We live about thirty miles from this farm, And when we found him, father had asked a man if he'd seen him, 7. Said yeah, he'd passed through here yesterday, He might be way back over there in them fields, So we went on, Papa drivin the buggy, and we found him on another man's. farm, We tried to get him straightened out by throwin rocks and we got him right in the road, When we got about a mile from there he got mad, He just laid down in the middle of the road and couldn't get him to do nothin, So a white fellow came along, He said, "John, he said, "111 get him up for you if you don't mind, 1 won't hurt him too much but 1 bet he'll get up," Well, he said, 1'11 go up there and get me some barnafarder." C,B, Wh,tis that? Willie: Barnafarder? You know, what you pull off corn, dat's what you feed mules with, So he went up there and got this barnafarder and raised this bull's back leg, struck a match and lit a fire, Well, he lay there and it commenced to get hot and he kicked, When it began to get real hot then he jumped up and beat us home, (laughter) He didn't stop cause the fire had been too hot for him, Then we use to raise peanuts, popcorn, And uh, to have a little peanuts to take um up you had to dig a hole and put a post in the ground and then bail um up, Then we'd dry um, And at night we'd play "Dagger in the Bush," You ever heard of that? We have, maybe one in our hand, And we, uh, ask the other, 0 grey horse," He said, 1 ride um, How many miles? Ten, Well, if you got one in the hand, 8. l'd say give me nine and make it ten, And we'd win peanuts off each other, So we had much fun out of that, C,B, Do you remember your grandfather? Willie: Huh! Grandfather1! He was an old man, He was dead sometime ago, He was buried about seventy-five, He stayed (lived) with us, He smoked a pipe and we worked two tRicks on him, And we paid for it tool We wrapped some cotton around his feet while he was sittin there asleep, put it between his toes, Struck a match and set it to him, After a while he started kickin, and we started runnin out of the house, laughin so he knowed then that it was something we had done, He told my daddy and he wasn't so pleased about that, So we got his pipe one day and this pipe had a lid on it, They don't have um now but you might have heard of um, And uh, we filled it full of ,'baco, Then after a while, we was watchin, he reached up on the mantle piece and got it, , Got ,a piece, 1 of straw from the fire { t~ 4{~ p4 ~<w:tf"'""',u/v VV tC:,, t!tf''"'.fl /fh,.,t,/,y and brought it to the pipe for a smoke, Then he put it (the straw) down. After a while that lid popped off that pipe and we sure did laugh, Man, there was some black smoke in that house, We got a good kickout of that but we got a good beatin too. C,B, Your grandfather must have told you some good stories about his life, Willie: Well, he did tell cij~se he was in slavery times, you know, My daddy just died a few yeas ago and he was ninety six, My granddaddy been dead for um,,,fifty-sixty some odd years, He was a s,lave. Yeah, he talk about how things went on in slavery times, He said you couldn't go nowhere at night, that folks being out ridin horses called Patteroys, and if they catch you, they'd woop you, send you into the house, you know, Then he said if you ran away too much, they would pull one of your teeth out, you know, They just pull it out, not carin nothin about it, And he said if you learned how to read or write or anything like that they take the finger you write with and chop it off, so you couldn't write, And if they catch you prayin or servin God, they would woop you, I asked him the reason why they didn't want you to pray, he said in those days white people believed that God would do what a colored person asked for, So, God will do, but he's goin to do what he wants to, he ain't goin to do things because we ask him, But if it's necessary I would ask him, 9. So he said there was a man that they were goin to woop 'bout something he had done, And they put him into a barn and when they get through eatin, they was goin out there to woop him, This man placed one man over behind the head of the barn with a flashlight, and he placed another friend at this end with some water, and placed another at this end with a bell, And they came into woop him, an this fellow started prayin, He said, "Lord, please let it thunder in the east if you please," and that fellow let go a boom and they thought it was God. And he said, "Oh Lord, please let it lighting in the East if you please," and the fellow flashed his flashlight, Said "Lord, let us have a little rain if you can," and threw that water in, Then the fellows (who were going to beat him) said "get up John," They thought God had done dat, So that was an old one, BREAK (due to noise) Yeah, There was an old man who didn't go to church, Old man, he never did believe in church, So finally one Sunday they say he went to church, and set up front of the church, So the preacher was preach in, he said, "My text is goin be today 'bout move on back a little further," And this man got up and moved on back half-way back of the church thinkin he was talking about him, And he talked on a few more minutes and said, "Brother, say I want you to move on back a little bit further.~ And he got up and moved a little on back further again, He talked on and said, "Now brother, say I want you to move way on back," He got up there and went an sat on the last seat in the back of the church, "Brbther, say I want you to move a little bit further," That old man got up and said, "By God, say I just get up and get out of here cause I 'bout moved all as far as I can move, (laughter) So he got up and left, The man was preachin but he thought he was talking to him, So that was the way it was, There was another guy and another goin around trying to fool somebody that they were preachers, and neither one of them were preachers, C,B, Uh huh, Willie: And one of them could read and the other couldn't read, And come the time to preach that night the one that couldn't read would be standing in front of the people while the one who could read would be crouching under the seat with the Bible open, and this fellow that couldn't read had his thumb right on the portion of what (the other man) wanted to say, cause he was whispering and tellin him what to say, you know, He said (whispered) "move the thumb," He said (loudly) "move th' thumb," He said (whispered) 10. "Shut up you fool you," (Loud) "Shut up you fool you," he said, He said "jump on out the window and run," (loud) "Just go ahead and jump on out the window," So this fellow then, he had to jump out the window and run, and they caught him and wooped him good, (laughter) C ,B, Oh, yeah! Willie: Find out there wasn't nothin to him, But they give him a good floggin, So 1 think that's about,,, C,B, Your grandfather told you all these stories? Willie: Yeah, So 1 got to put Father Sinn in this, When Father Sinn was here, one day, he told me, said, "Willie," 1 said, "Sir", He said, "You know what, a crazy woman called me yesterday and asked? fhat was on a Monday, "No sir, what was it," Asked me what time was the eleven o'clock Mass," (laughter) 1 said you fool you, it ain't at eleven o'clock, He chuckled, Father Sinn was might strict, Yeah, he was strict, She wanted to know what time the eleven o'clock Mass, and he already said what time it was, (This joke passed over me, and he enjoyed it so much 1 didn't want to run it into the ground,) Well, that's about all 1 can think of,,,, C,B, Do you think,,,,,can you remember real quick, cause 1 don't want to take any more of your time, anymore stories about people that were bad stories, Willie: Yeah, 1 remember now, There is some place right outside of Georgia where the city didn't like colored people, but 1 can't 11. think of the name, Seems like it was Dallas, Georgia or something like that, Have you ever heard of Dallas? C,B, Yeah, I've heard of it, 12, Willie: Well, sometime ago, they didn't allow colored folks there, And there was a deacon and a preacher got off the train there and they wooped um, run um out of town, And so they got down there in the woods and they thought they would stop and pray, This deacon asked the preacher, he says, "Reverend," he says, "what is it Deac," Says, "do you recon God knows how white people treat us down here?" He says, "Yeah, God knows all about it cept he just don't give a damm," (laughter) C,B, The preacher said that? Willie: Yeah, He was misrible and hurtin, you know, C, B, Yeah, Willie: And there was a fellow once and was findin a girl friend he wanted to marry, And there was two sisters, but the oldest was supposed to be married before the young one was and he picked the young one, So his daddy told him that the oldest name is Patran and the other one Sally, And the one he didn't want to marry was named Patran, So he tried to wait until he made up his mind and change for the other one, So he told the boy, said, "I tell,you, he said, "You just have patience for a little while, The son said, "l don't want Patience", and cursed, "l want Sally," (laughter) They said that was kind of a true story but I heard that and didn't know it, C,B, Did you learn these stories from just people tellin you, your father and grandfather? Willie: Yeah, 13, So my daddy had a mule once, This mule would work till about ten o'clock in the day, then he'd quit, lay down in the field, gear and everything on, C,B, At ten.o'clock in the morning'? Willie: Yeah, you know that's before dinner time before it gets hot, So Paw ,.wooped that mule so hard one day that mule very near talked. He said, "You gain to work now, hum a hum." (He made a facial expression of a mule,) (laughter) Yeah, he tore the head of that mule all day. Woppen can be good. C,B, Yeah, I guess, Willie: So that's about it, I got to get my mind on work, C,B, Let me ask you before you go, when were you born? Willie: I was born in 1902, September eighteenth, C,B, And you lived in Georgia all your life? Willie: All my life I lived in Georgia, I've travelled out df Georgia, but.' it has always been my home, I've lived in New York, Tennessee, and Alabama, but I just like Georgia, It's better to get along in Georgia, and it is. C,B, Fine, Thank you, A PDF transcript exists for this recording. Please contact an archivist for access. Professor John Burrison founded the Atlanta Folklore Archive Project in 1967 at Georgia State University. He trained undergraduates and graduate students enrolled in his folklore curriculum to conduct oral history interviews. Students interviewed men, women, and children of various demographics in Georgia and across the southeast on crafts, storytelling, music, religion, rural life, and traditions. As archivists, we acknowledge our role as stewards of information, which places us inaposition to choose how individuals and organizations are represented and described in our archives. We are not neutral, andbias isreflected in our descriptions, whichmay not convey the racist or offensive aspects of collection materialsaccurately.Archivists make mistakes and might use poor judgment.We often re-use language used by the former owners and creators, which provides context but also includes bias and prejudices of the time it was created.Additionally,our work to use reparative languagewhereLibrary of Congress subject termsareinaccurate and obsolete isongoing. Kenan Research Center welcomes feedback and questions regarding our archival descriptions. If you encounter harmful, offensive, or insensitive terminology or description please let us know by emailingreference@atlantahistorycenter.com. Your comments are essential to our work to create inclusive and thoughtful description.