Carol Turner interview with Augusta “Gus” White, Cora Lewis, Marilynn Butler, Lilly Belle Humphries, Christian McKinnon, Josephine Bellamy, Alma Harmon, Mr. R. G. Wood, Yvonne Turner, and Tom K. Lunas (part one)

The John Burrison Georgia Folklore Archive recordings contains unedited versions of all interviews. Some material may contain descriptions of violence, offensive language, or negative stereotypes reflecting the culture or language of a particular period or place. There are instances of racist language and description, particularly in regards to African Americans. These items are presented as part of the historical record. This project is a repository for the stories, accounts, and memories of those who chose to share their experiences for educational purposes. The viewpoints expressed in this project do not necessarily represent the viewpoints of the Atlanta History Center or any of its officers, agents, employees, or volunteers. The Atlanta History Center makes no warranty as to the accuracy or completeness of any information contained in the interviews and expressly disclaims any liability therefore. If you believe you are the copyright holder of any of the content published in this collection and do not want it publicly available, please contact the Kenan Research Center at the Atlanta History Center at 404-814-4040 or reference@atlantahistorycenter.com. This is part one of a three part interview. It starts with Augusta Gus White sharing a folktale about a man riding a horse and encountering a strange woman with sharp teeth. Then she tells a story in which a man with a pet monkey tries to scare his friend; followed by a ghost story about an innocent man who was hanged in Newton, Alabama; and ending with a joke about a woman who is unfaithful to her dead husband. Next, at 9:03 Cora Lewis remembers when a man chased her and her sister after they visited a fortune teller and holding a dumb supper which was supposed to reveal the attendees future husband. At 13:13, Marilyn Butler recalls visiting her aunts house after dark and being scared by partridges. Then at 16:25, Lilly Belle Humphries tells a story about her when her grandmother cooked for Union troops after her husband died in action during the Civil War. Christian McKinnon next shares a story at 21:27 in which her grandfathers sister mistook a stump for Yuchi Native American tribe members. At 29:01, Josephine Bellamy repeats a humorous story about a man sitting up in his coffin during his funeral and scaring the church congregation. Then she tells one from Lucedale, Mississippi, about a pregnant woman escaping from a panther on horseback. At 32:56, Alma Harmon tells a story from Florida in which a mother and her children hide in their chimney during an Indian raid. At 35:20, R. G. Wood discusses witches, including what is written about them in the Bible as well as the superstition that they can curse cows' milk and that they ride horses at night. He also tells a story about when his grandfather hunted a strange turkey that transformed into a witch. At 59:42, Wood shares stories pertaining to when his grandfather and uncle fought in the Civil War. To conclude the interview, at 1:05:51 he recalls a man from Reepsville, North Carolina, who made herbal medicine; how his grandfather cured thrush in children; and when his sister got treated for a burn. Alma Harmon (1914-1999) was born in Alabama and in 1920 moved to Millville, Florida, with her family. In 1934, she married Harold Alson Harmon (1913-1996) in Panama City, Florida. They had four children, Carolyn Virginia (1935-1936), Emily (1937-1998), Harold (1938- ), and Shirley (1940- ). She died in Panama City, Florida. Yvonne Turner (1913-2002) was born in Bay St. Louis, Mississippi. In 1935, she moved to Florida, and in 1939 she married Howard Shelton Turner (1907-1986). They had three children, Joel Howard (1944- ), George (1947-2005), and Carol Ann (1954- ). In 1989, she moved to Wagarville, Alabama, and she died in Rome, Georgia. Thomas K. Luna (1886-?) was born in Petersburg, Tennessee. In 1896 he married Josie Smith, and they had two children, Carry (1897-?) and Lydia (1899-?). He worked as a Blacksmith and in 1900 moved to Franklin, Tennessee. No additional biographical information has been determined. )"OLK TALES Carol Ann Turner Folk 301 May 30, 1974 TABLE OF CONTENTS INTRODUCTION . . *TRANSCRIPTIONS: . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Gus White: Table in the Creek .... , Monkey and the Pillowcase .. The Hole That Won't Fill Up Whirlin' John ...... . Cora Lewis: Mama Scared Us . The Dumb Supper. Marilyn Butler: Going to Aunt Rhodies. Lilly Belle Humphries: i 1 2 3 4 6 6(a) 7 My Grandmother and the Yankees ......... , 9 Christian McKinnon: The Indians That Were Stumps Josephine Bellamy: The One-Doored Church. The Panter and the Horse Alma Harmon: Hiding From the Indians Mr. R.G. Wood: Borrying From the Witch ... The Turkey Nobody Could Shoot The Witch Rode Nancy ..... My Grandfather the Sharpshooter Mr. Shubert's Homemade Medicine .. Billy McClure Talks the Far Out of Hadacol The Best Man . . . . . . . . . . . Yvonne Turner: The Girl Who Came Back The River Styx, . , . to Life Burns 11 13 14 14 16 17 19 20 . 21 23 24 24 25 26 *Titles, except were noted by double asterisks, were provided by the collector for ease of reference. Only three titles were provided by the story tellers. Yvonne Turner (cont): The Man Who Shot the Big Bear The Mean Indian ...... . Take Henry Back ...... . The Conductor Lost His Pants. Babe Boards the Train with Dynamite The Lady Who Disappeared. Come Get Me, I'm Cold Light in the Water. The Haunted Church. **Streaking ... Mr. Tom K. Lunas: The Angel . . . . . . . The Hawg That Disappeared Vanzie Rutledge **The String of Knives . . . . . . **The Stump That Got Up and Walked Away APPENDIX . . . . . . . . . . . . 27 29 29 30 31 32 32 33 34 34 36 41 44 47 49 INTRODUCTION My collecting project followed what I believe to be a common pattern among amateur folklorists: only as the quarter drew to a close did it achieve focus, gain direction and gather momentum. Once again I am left with the feeling of having just begun, rather than just completed, a folklore gathering project. My initial intent was to draw on the large repertoire of both sides of my own family. My mother has described our family as "good Scotch-Irish mixed with Choctaw" on my father's side, and "good Scotch-Irish mixed with German" on her side, and family gatherings never lack for a story teller. However, I did not anticipate my mother's shyness in recording, nor her enthusiastic participation in gathering folk stories from near and far. It has occurred to me that by gathering stories for my project, she hoped to avoid the ordeal of taping part of her repertoire. Whatever her motives, her paritipation greatly altered the nature (and volume) of this report. Our combined efforts resulted in three tapes and two written stories. The tapes are identified by side, as being Side A, Side B, etc., through Side E; the letters are included at the end of the transcriptions, and separate typed transcriptions for these letters have been provided. The first part of Side A is representative of a gathering of my family. The occasion was a visit paid by my father, Howard, and his brother James, to some of their cousins in the small Alabama community of Slocomb. Participants in the -istory telling are Augusta (Gus) White, Cora Lewis, Marilyn Butler, and my father, Howard. The second half of Side A contains stories from an assortment of friends and neighbors, who are more fully described in the Appendix to this report. Side B is a recording o:E a visit with Mr. R.G. Wood, the father of my Aunt Helen, who was present, along with my mother and me, during the recording. Mr. Wood is 81 and is slightly senile (the day before the recording, he could not recall his story about the turkey/witch) and his daughter was uncomfortable during the recording session, which tended to make the rest of us a trifle edgy. Mr. Wood was slow to be drawn in to telling his tales; indeed, he did not warm to his role until very late in the visit, after the recorder was switched off, and his daughter standing to leave. Then he reeled off two tales so quickly I hardly had time to grab a pen and record them in shorthand. His daughter was obviously ready for the visit to end, so we had no choice but to take our leave just at the moment of breakthrough from reminiscences to tale telling. Side C holds the stories told by my mother, Yvonne White Turner. Her stories convey some of the flavor of life on the Gulf coast from Mississippi to the Florida Panhandle. She is a good story teller, but went to great lengths to avoid taping her stories, to the point of suggesting she tell her stories -iito one of my uncles, and having him tell them for the tape, because "he could tell it better than me." However, I prevailed, and taped ten of my mother's stories, plus two local legends. Sides D and E are a maverick contribution through a .friend of my family, Mrs. Sarah Haney. Mrs. Haney told us she knew of a man who had some stories "he wants to tell before he dies." The circumstances surrounding the recording are totally unknown to me at this time; Mrs. Haney mailed the tape to me without an accompanying letter of explanation. In the transcription of these two stories, I have taken the liberty of excising the questions and remarks of the recorder, a Mr. Stanley Ingram (see Appendix A for further discussion regarding Messrs. Ingram and Lunas) in order to present a cohesive story as I believe Mr. Lunas was attempting to tell it. Mr. Ingram's approach to the story teller seems similar to that of a Vice Squad Detective grilling a pimp. However, it is possible to piece the story around his constant fact-seeking interruptions .. I realize this tape is probably valueless for publication because of our removal from the source of the story; however, since the stories are available, I included them. Judging from Mr. Lunas's style of story telling, the changing inflections of his voice to fit dialogue and imitate animal noises, I would speculate that he probably has many other sto~es he would like h to tell, perhaps to a more understanding audience. -iii( GUS WHITE): . to see his girl and in them days and times there wasn't no cars, they just had to ride a mule or a horse, and he was coming down the hill from Wicksbu.rg, coming down towards Old Loggy Holler and the old horse got slower and slower as he come down this hill and when he got right in the edge of the water there appeared a table with a tablecloth and dishes settin all around that table just like somebody was going to set down and eat. And them dishes started to just shaking and the old horse -- they was a foot log built across the creek -- and the old horse just sorta sidled over to that foot log and he couldn't make it go on and the old horse just stopped right by that foot log and here jumped an old woman, appeared from nowhere and jumped on the back of this horse and helt on around this man and she had a bonnet, great big old black bonnet on, and her teeth was about two inches long, just stuck out of her mouth, you know, and, uh, that horse he, he started whipping that horse to make that horse go and it was bad weather and the thunder was just so loud til it nearly bout burst open the earth and the lightnin, was so much lightnin all around you could might near reach out and grab it, and this man, he beat that horse, and beat that horse and finally got up the hill to the church. They was a cemetery right across the church and he, the church door was open just a little bit and he jumped offa that horse and got into that church and that old woman disappeared when he jumped into the uh, door of the church out of the bad weather. And he stood there a little bit and he said looked like that the world was going to bust wide open with all this thunder and lightnin and he happened to turn around and look to the back of the church and here was that old woman coming up to the front. And he jumped on his horse just before she got to the table, up to the uh, uh, door, he jumped on his horse and rode away. And that same man had a, uh, friend that lived down the road from them, and he decided one day that he would scare this fellow, he was going to see his girl too, and he had to walk. And he had to go by this cemetery and he was always scared to pass that cemetery and he decided one day that he'd scare that man, that he would, uh, get a sheet and put on him, uh, spread over him, and set down on one of them graves and scare that man. This feller had uh, this feller that was going to scare the other man, he had a, a pet monkey. And so that feller had his date and he went to fill his date and this feller grabbed his sheet and went over there and set down on top of the grave and spread this sheet over him, you know. And, uh, the uh, man come along and he didn't look towards the cemetery and so the feller said, Aw, foot, I didn't get to scare him, and he took the sheet offa his -2- head and he just started to get up and turned around and looked and saw there something setting on that grave right behind him covered up in white. And he run just as hard as he run and he couldn't get rid of that thing as fast as he run that white thing was running right along behind him. And he finally got to his house and he just said, Well, I'll just go in there and wrap, crawl in the bed and wrap up where I can't see this booger, you know. And, uh, when he did, why, that thing just run come right on in the house right behind him and run under the bed. He lay there for a little bit, you know, and he decided he'd get up and see what it was. And it was his monkey had scared, had got a sheet, uh, got a pillow case and put over his head and set down behind him and scared him. So instead of him scaring the other feller, he got scared his own self. So that's all I know. (Howard): Well, do you remember years ago, Gus, bout this tale of a feller being hung up close to Newton? (Gus): They, that is really true. (Howard): And, and, the rope, uh, somehow or other wasn't quite long enough and his feet in his death struggles kicked out the dirt from underneath him, (Gus) : Yeah (Howard): ... and you could, they say to this day you can go back there and fill that in and go back later and it'll be dug out again. The dirt will be out. (Gus) : Well, me and mama passed by those places. (Howard): You know of that. (Gus): Yeah. I've seen that. I didn't see the hole, but mama showed me about where it is. -3- (Howard): This feller, I understand, was, was, uh, hung or lynched or something (Gus): He was hung. (Howard): ... and he was actually innocent of what he was being. (Gus): hung for (Howard): punished for, and that his feet, the toes of his shoes, dug out a hollowed out place in the dirt underneath there and they can't keep it filled up. (Gus) : That's right. I heard that and me and mama passed ... (Howard): Ever since I was a baby and that's been 60 years ago, I heard that. (Gus) : Yeah. Well, that's actually the truth. (Howard): That was up close to Newton, up here. (Gus): Yeah, it's between here and Ozark. We used to go up there. Mr and mama used to go to Ozark to see Mary Lois and she'd point out just about where -- you know, mama knew everything. (Howard); Yeah. (Gus): She could just point out everything to me. But that's the tale that you wanted me to tell. (Howard): Uhhuh, well, I'm glad that you did. (Background conversation) (Gus) : joke. Now, the preacher told this joke, and this is really a Uh, he told this in church, and he said one time they was a man and a woman, and, uh, they'd lived together quite a long time, and this woman, wasn't ready to settle down, you know, like the man was and so she just decided she'd like to get out and have her a good time. In the meantime this man got sick and she -4- waited on him hopin every day, you know, being real good to him, but hopin every. day that he'd soon pass on, you know, so she could get out and have her a good time. And he finally died. And she got out and she had her a good time then. Well, her good times lasted a right smart while and so she got sick herself and she died. And, but before she died though, before her husband died, he told her, he says, Now, I'm goin to die and leave you. He says, I want you to be true to me and come to heaven because I'm goin to heaven and he says if you don't, if you don't live true to me after I'm gone he says, I'll turn over in my grave. So when she died she went to heaven, you know, and she, old Saint Peter met her at the gate and he says, Oooh, Sister Jones, he says, just welcome into heaven. She said, Just wait a minute before I go on into there, she says, I wanta find John. She, he says, Well, says you'll have to describe him, says We got ten million Johns here. She says we1~1.,.1-,. he's tall and handsome. Said, Well we got five thousand Johns here that's tall and handsome, said can't you give us another description of him? Said, Well, now, he was blond, had blue eyes. Said, Well, we got five hundred men here that's blond and blue eyed named John. Don't you know somethin else about him? he said. She said, Well-1-1 she said, I just can't think of nothing else only he asked me to live true, and, uh, come to heaven and be, if I didn't do it he'd turn over in his grave. And this man, old Saint Peter said, Oh, I know who you talkin about now. Said, up here we call him ''Whirlin' John." -5- (Approx .. 2 0 1 : CORA LEWIS) : (Yvonne): Tell both of em. (Cora): Okay. (Yvonne): Tell em your name, and ... (Cora): Yeah. Well, I'm Cora Lewis. And me and sister was going up here to Mrs. Pippinses to have our fortune told. Well, we turned (at the crook?) and here, there'd been a convict out down there at yonder pond. But we looked and we couldn't see no convict so we go to Mrs. Pippins and have our fortune told. And there's bushes all along side the road. Well, when we come back, I said, Sis ... we's all huddled up talking about our boyfriends, I said, Sister, looka there. There stood this man in the bushes. Sister said, Who's that? Nobody wouldn't say nothing. Who's that, I said? Nobody wouldn't say nothin. I said, Lord, let's run. We run, I jumped a fence, we didn't have time to open the gate because that man was right in behind us. Well, we got home, we run in a side room, we pushed the door slam through the door, uh, all that facin there, we pushed it slam through, went (inaudible). Well, he come out there, and by that time it give mama time enough to run around the house, pull off that old hat and coat and them britches and take the baby. Well, Sister got the gun, I got some long old fat lighter splinters, and lit 'em, and I poked them splinters around the door and Sister poked the old gun around the door and said Do you see anybody? No. And that was it. We's scared near bout to death. Just a lookin in the other room to see if we could see anybody. -6- But the othern now. They's a girl come home with me from church. And me and her decided to cook a dumb supper. And after you started the supper you couldn't speak. And, uh, the one that come in to eat with you would be the one you'd marry. And if you weren't goin to marry, your coffin'd come in. So we had two doors to the kitchen at that time, and the kitchen was off from the house. So we put on bonnets where we couldn't look at each other because if we did we'd both laugh out. So we both built a fire in the old wood stove, and we both made up the cornbread, we both poured it on, and we made a bowl of gravy, we both made a bowl of gravy, and we fixed the table, both of us fixed the table, and then I sets down over next to the wall and she sets down near the front door. Well, he-e-e-re's this whistling coming, do-o-o-ow-w-wn through the field, just 0-0-0-ne man awhistling. And, uh, got closter and closter and we got scarder and scarder. Well, here come a piece of wood and hit the back of the kitchen. When it did, one of my feet went into the bread plate and the othern went over Pearl and out we went at the door and it was Mama and Sam, and Pearl married a man that whistled, and. I married a man that whistled and that ended our dumb supper. (Laughter) That scared us, like to scared us to death. -6(a)- (Approx. 28': MARILYN BUTLER): (Marilyn): I'm Marilyn Butler, and, uh, Jamesy, he come to spend a few days with us once ... (Howard) : That's James Turner (Mailyn:) James Turner, yeah, he came to spend a few days with us when we were all chillern, we wan't grown, was good size, and he decided way late one evening, you know, he decided let's go to Aunt Rhodie's. Well, Sam wouldn't go with him, Cora wouldn't go with him, they's afraid. It was too late in the evenin, you know. Aunt Rhodie lived a, you know, fer ways, so cross the creek, cross that branch below the church .. (Howard): It'd, it'd be dark before ... (Marilyn): Urn hmm, yeah, they was afraid. I said James, I'll go with you, urn, we asked mama could we go, and she said, uh, are you chillern not afraid to go? We said, no-0-0-0, no, we're not afraid. So me and James started out. And, uh, we went through, we got down there before you get to the church we went across the road, you know, through the woods, kindly, well, we got to the branch down there, we was walkin just as fast as we could because it was getting la-a-te, I think it was about four miles, weren't it? I think it is. Anyway, three or four, three or four it is, and, uh, we heerd somebody cornin cross the creek, you know, and we didn't want 'em to see us, so we just stopped and stood there kindly hid til they got on past the main road. We was cornin across, see, -7- and they got a past, well we hurried and crossed the creek and I, I knew this trail where you go across the woods and make a short cut, where you didn't have to go all around the road, there's a lot of woods and swampy all back there -- you go up the branch a piece, you know, and turn. Well, me and James was going just as hard as we could almost runnin, you know, hurryin to get there, and all of a sudden away back there in them woods, a bi-i-g bunch of paterjes [patridges] just flew up right at us, scared us so bad, we just stood there. Oo-0-0-0-0-0-0. (Howard): That sound would just freeze you in your tracks. (Marilyn): That scared us so bad. After that, we got out astartin again, hu-u-r-rying you know. Well, we finally got to Aunt Rhodie's house, went in the back door, she saw us and said, chillern, you come by yourselves? Told her yesm'm, dark time we got there. But we re-e-e-lly did have a trip. We was so scared. I knew the way, James didn't. He wanted to go to Rhodie's, I says, Well, I'll go with you and we really enjoyed it though. I don't remember how long we stayed with Aunt Rhodie then, but we had a good time. (Laughter) -8- (Approx. 30': LILLY BELLE HUMPHRIES): I'm Lilly Belle Humphries, Lee Humphries' wife, and I was raised up in Clarksville, Florida. I was Lilly Belle Williams before I met him about 51 and a half years ago. But Yvonne wanted me to tell a story about my grandmother. It was back in the Civil War days, and, uh, her husband had just been killed. Of course, he was fighting for the South, and, uh, she had just got the message that her husband had been killed in a battle, and about a week later, after she'd gotten the message, some Yankee soldiers came along and camped, I believe she said, about a quarter of a mile from her house. Anyway, they were close enough. They came up, the officers, and asked her to prepare the meal. for them. And they brought her a half a flour sack, evidently a 24 pound flour sack, full of roasted coffee, and she hadn't had any coffee in two years. They'd been eating, or drinking, rather, parched meal coffee. Uh, half a bag of grain coffee was just out of this world to her, of course. But anyway she cooked dinner for them. She didn't, she never cooked on a stove in her life, and she was cooking the dinner in the old ovens on the fire place, and one of her neighbors came in, a Mrs. Brady. I remember that name real well, and was helping her with the meal, and while they were stooped, or rather, squatted on the hearth, stirring the dinner, Granny -9- whispered to Mrs. Brady, said, I wish I had some poison, I'd kill the last blamed one of 'em. And, of course, it scared the fool out of Mrs. Brady, and she uh, didn't want Granny talking like that, she was afraid some of the officers would hear, of course, but in the meantime, they were out in the yard, killing Granny's chickens. And they got her horse. She, of course, the children wasn't big enough to do the work and she'd been plowing the horse and making a living for her and the kids. So she was ruined, of course, she thought when they took the horse, but the next morning after they left their encampment, she went down and looked around where they had been camped and she found an old ox, with a sore head, or sore shoulders, or something. Anyway, he was so near dead they had turned him out to die. And, uh, she took him home and doctored him and she made two crops plowing that ox. And while she was down there, she found that they'd left three or four old cook pots around the camping place, and I have one or two of them now. Old spiders is what they called 'em then, we would call them a Dutch oven. But they have legs about three or four inches long and a heavy, they're made of heavy cast iron and they have a heavy cast iron lid with a handle on top that you can stick a stick or something through and lift off this heavy lid to see about your cooking. And you build a fire under it and on top of it. And until my granny died about 19 and 26, I -10- suppose, no, it was, yeah, I reckon it would be, I didn't think to look it up before Yvonne came over, but anyway, she still cooked on this old long legged skillet as long as she lived. (Approx 48': CHRISTIAN McKINNON): Now, I'd like to tell you some of the stories that I have heard my father and other relatives tell. My father was born in Florida, over in Walton County, back in 1830. He was much, much older than my mother was but he, when he lived there, the Indians were all around and the ~uchi \) ' Indians, they occupied this part of the state, and they were friendly. They were just as nice to the white people as they could be. But, some other Indians would come in once in a while that were not friendly, and they never knew just when, it's hard for them to tell the difference in them if they saw them at a distance. Well, they had no way to travel then except by horseback and the people didn't, when the settlers came down, they didn't settle close together. They would go and select a corner and they could choose, uh, 360 acres from the government, and live on it, and nobody could go in there and take that land without their permission. Well, my father, my grandfather came in '28, 1828, and he selected his down at this place called Mossy Bend, at that time. Now it's called Red Bay, and he settled there, and my -11- father was born there, and all of his children, he built him a log house and lived there. But his sisters, uh, he had two sisters older than he was, and the oldest one's husband died of yellow fever, so she came back and lived with her father there, but her cousins lived up at Yuchianna, [sp?] which was about, oh, 10 or 15 miles away. So, she went up to visit them, rode her horse up, and coming back home, about four miles from her home, she saw an old Indian woman and a child, way, some distance away. Well, she knew if there was a woman and a child there that there was some warriors around somewhere. Well, her heart almost stopped beating, but it didn't, and she decided that the only thing to do was just ride ahead, go ahead, and not let on like she had seen them expecting each minute somebody to jump out on her and take her. She went on, and on, and when she got where she, just about where she thought that these Indians were, she had seen them, she begin looking around and she could not find an Indian anywhere. But right near by was a tall stump with a little stump by it. And that's what she had seen and she was so afraid that there were Indians that she just made Indians out of that stump and the two stumps. Well, of course, she was real happy and very thankful and went on home without having any trouble at all. -12- (Approx. 50' : JOSEPHINE BELLAMY) : One time it was a man that passed away, and uh, he was an old man and he was all drawed up over, bent over with arthuritis, rheumatism, and, uh, he, uh, they were havin his funeral and long in them days it wan't embalmers like we have now, and so, he, uh, they had, when they put him in his casket, they had to put weights on his chest to get him to straighten out in the casket. And so the big, a church full of people who congregates around, and the preacher was preachin his funeral and somehow or other one of the weights slipped which made Uncle John sit straight up in the casket. Well, everybody looked and saw him sittin up there straight and they begin to run out. Well, it was so many people in the church and they wan't but one door in the church and they was gettin hung up in the door, and just as fast as one could get out, the othern, it would be just, they was just lined up, and so, they all got out the church and they went in different directions, you know, runnin, and so, well then it come to them what had happened. They begin to gather up outside, you know, all of them begin to gather up together and talk about it and so one of the deacons said Did you see Reverend Johnson a-n-nywhere? He say, Yeh, I did. As he passed me, the last word I heard him say was, Damn the church that didn't have but one door in it! -13- (JOSEPHINE BELLAMY, cont.) My mother tells this story, and told it for the truth. She said in Mississippi, she was born in Lucedale, Mississippi, years ago, she said that, uh, one day, it was a woman ridin a horse, and she had to go through a wooded area, a little swamp like, and she was pregnant. And when she got away from home, the horse ran and begin to run very fast and this panter was after her and when the horse got to the lot and stopped where she lived his hips, his thighs was washed down in blood where the panter had tried to get her offa the horse. And my mother was old, she died in 1962 at the age of 93 years old. (Approx. 58': ALMA HARMON) This story was told to me by Mrs. J.S. Gray, that was a pioneer in this residence, this residence area. Her family had come to northwest Florida years before. She was a member of the Phillips family, and we were on our way to Port St. Joe one day, going down the highway that runs along the edge of the Gulf, and we passed through a small community called Mexico Beach, and she told us that when years ago there was no such thing as Mexico Beach, that was a turpentine still and instead of beach houses there, there was section houses where the men lived that tended the turpentine woods, -14- the cups in the trees, and at that time there was bands of Indians that roamed through northwest Florida and they were destructive and detrimental to people, and, uh, she said that one day a lady was home with her two small children, her husband was out in the woods working and heard commotion in the community and she knew the Indians were making a raid and she didn't have time to leave her house and go any place else, she didn't know but what she was surrounded. The only thing she knew to do was to get into the fireplace and up into the chimney, she knew there was a ledge built into the chimney behind the mantlepiece, and she took those two small children and climbed up into the chimney and stood on that ledge and as quietly as she could with the children, and the Indians came into the house and pilfered the house and took what they wanted and she stood there just fearing that they'd set fire to the house but they did not. And after she was sure that they were gone, she was able to come down again, which must have been a long time to stand with two children. But the only way she saved hers and the children's life was by hiding in the fireplace. -15- SIDE B: MR, R, G. WOOD (Mr. Wood): (Carol): (Mr. Wood) (Carol): Do you remember readin the Bible about the witches? I really don't. Second, First Samuel: Did they call em witches? (Mr. Wood): Oh, yeah. You know, Saul put the witches out of the country, all but one, and he went to this witch to find out when he got where he couldn't keep in touch with the Lord, then he went to the witch. (Helen): (Mr. Wood): I've always thought Dad was a frustrated preacher. I better read you a little of the Bible then. [EXTENSIVE READING BY MR. WOOD OF 1 SAMUEL 28-31] (Approx. 21') (Mr. Wood): Now, talkin about witches, my mother used to go and borry stuff where the witches would, uh, make, uh, the cattle, the milk was bad and that was a spell. My mother. (Carol): Now, I heard something about that, that's something to make a cow ... (Mr. Wood): To give bloody milk, streaky, stringy milk. (Carol): Well, couldn't you do it to somebody else's cows, did you ever hear about that happening, like there was a spell, did anybody ever hear about a spell being put on cows? (Mr. Wood): The witches done it, I don't know about that. (Helen): To get the spell relieved, you go and borrow something from the person that. (Mr. Wood): Say, for instance now, if I was a witch, and I'd touch your cow and inflict it, then you or some of your family'd have to come to me and borry something to cure it, and that's the truth. My mother did that. Now my grandfather Hefner, you haven't heard, I can really tell you a witch story. My grandfather Hefner and I were great friends because his wife took tomato cans, and let's see she had one in the center and then some all around and had them covered with carpet for a foot stool. And I'd set on that. Did you ever see one of them? (Carol): Unh,uh. I haven't seen one. -16- (Mr. wood) .: They make a purty thing. So, uh, uh, I'd sit on that and, uh, talk to him, and he'd talk to me, and he'd tell me about the war and, uh, now they had what they call Indian Hill there on the old Hefner place, and there were four generations of Hefners buried up on top of the hill on the other side of the branch, and they kept that graveyard up nice, clean all the time, and is yet today. And just across on the other side was Indian Hill and there were Indian buried there. I used to go there and pick up those rocks that was rung around the graves. Now this was around 1900. Let's see, that's 74 years ago. (Carol) : graves? They weren't mounds, they were separate Mr. Wood: Yes, there were some mounds there. But the people got to coming in there so much, digging in the graves, that they had to take and put a corset around, to keep them out. But they never found anything worth anything. But now, uh, they had a big chestnut tree out on top of the knoll beyond the barn. Now, this is the real Indian, I mean witch story, and, my grandfather was a sharpshooter in the war, and they had the Indians, I mean Yankees, in a little farm house and couldn't get em out so they set the house afar and got back and waited til they come out and then shot em. He was down on his knees shooting, this bullet went in under his arm and hit his shoulder blade and went across on the other side. And this bullet was taken out after he come home from the war. And he never was anything like he was before in the way of he was awfully nervous and stayed thataway until he died. But he loved to fish and I would go with him afishing, my father built us a ramp down on Howard's Creek, had bannisters on either side and out in the front where we couldn't fall off and I'd go with him and sit beside of him and bait his hook and everything and I'd sit there and hold my hand like this and then when one would bite I'd kick her like that. He thought the world and all of me. But he told me about this, and I'll never forget it. Said they was goin turkey shootin. That was way back when things was wild. And this great big chestnut tree out on top of the hill beyond the barn in the pasture was partly dead when I was a little boy, around 1900. I was 9 years old in 1900, in 1901 I was 10. (I said a speech in 1901 I got two dollars and a half for it, I'll have to tell you that one, that one was good.) But anyway, they'd shoot, they started down on the shoal branch to hunt the turkeys, they was just everywhere way back then, you -17- know, and there was one out there on the top of that tree. And they'd shoot it and it'd just come over wooooooo, go back to the barn and around and around. So they decided that was a witch, they couldn't hit it. Now my grandfather says to one of the boys, he had three, says go home, and take a quarter, silver quarter, cut it half in two and melt that in a bullet. And said don't come around the barn, says come through the barn, through the hallways so the turkey can't see you and shoot it out through the crack in the barn so he won't never see you do it. So they went, and they kept messing with the turkey, having a big time, and they couldn't do a thing with it, the dogs was all abarking at him up in the tree, and they went and molded the bullet. Now I've seen the bullet, the silver bullet, I mean the piece of quarter that was left, and also the bullet that come out of my grandfather's shoulder in a little vase on top of the mantle board. And, uh, they told me that's where it come from so I don't think they lied about it. So, but anyway, they shot at this turkey, and it flew, and one wing was down. Well, this family of, wait a little, maybe I can think of the name, Gilbert, lived down behond the hill in a little house down there, this small little house, nobody lived down there but him, his family had all passed away and he was up in years, lived down there by himself beyond where my grandfather's farm was. So they followed, the dogs followed, abarking and ayelping, it wan't flying too -18- fast, had one wing hangin down. So when they got down there, the dogs had Mr. Gilbert bayed up in back of the house beside of the spring and he was holdin his arm and his arm had been shot and they tied it up. (Carol): (Mr. Wood) : than that? (Approx. 40'): And he was the witch. He was the witch. Have you ever heerd one richer (Mr. Wood:) No. Now I, I've never had any direct uh, dealings with witches myself, this is just what I heerd back yonder. Now, my uncle used to take me with him when he hauled wood for the mill. My father, a doctor and a farmer owned a cotton mill, I mean not a cotton mill but a cotton gin, wheat mill, and a saw mill all combined, and they'd run it at different times, you know, when the stuff was coming in. And my uncle .. hauled wood to keep that going and he picked me up. I'd sing a lot, very often, just a boy full of himself, and he loved me. He took me with him every time he went, mighty nigh. He'd come by and pick me up at the house. Well my mother didn't mind me going with my uncle, you know. It was her brother, you know. She didn't mind me goin with him, she knowed he'd take care of me. But we had a Western horse they called Nancy, and uh, we'd get her out of the stable some mornings-~ not every morning but every once in a while -- and her mane would be a-a-a-all curled up, twisted up. My uncle said the witch had been ridin her again last night. Now I don't know what he meant by that, that's all I can tell you about that, but after we'd get, we didn't have time to straighten her mane out, it was a job. And I'd get, take a little uh, stool there, around the barn and we'd get out there and he'd load the wood. I wasn't heavy enough to handle the wood. I'd get up in the wagon sometimes, and straighten it out a little for him. He'd throw it in a little bit crooked and I'd -19- pick up the end and lift it over, you know. But, I'd get the curry comb and straighten up that there horse's mane while she was out there standin waitin for him to load the wagon. And she wouldn't be worth a doodle that day when her hair was all tangled up there. Now I don't know. He said the witch had been riding her. (Approx. 45') (Yvonne): My daddy used to tell ghost stories and a lot of them involved horses, you know, and animals, but I can't remember. (Mr. Wood): some of 'em. and my uncle I can't remember much about 'em though I've heard But I :know this because I was sitting right there told me all about it. Now, he was a great sharpshooter, and he was one of the men that they called to this hospital in the field, that, uh, the Yankees would come in and climb trees and shoot in the hospital, and shoot doctors and nurses and everybody, anybody they could, you know and they got a bunch of sharpshooters in there and my grandfather was one of 'em, you know. And he said that, uh, from what they told him where, where the bullets were coming, the way they were coming, you couldn't see nobody, they were in the woods. There was no way in the world to find 'em, and, uh, said he concealed himself and he thought he seen a little puff of smoke, he cut loose on it and shot and shot a feller right through the head and he come atumblin down. He got one of 'em and the othern was left. Said that's the only feller he ever knew he killed in the army. He'd shot a many a person but other people were shooting, too, and the battle was goin on and all and he didn't know. They went out one day, he and my uncle Dave Coon to build a hospital and the doctor went along with 'em and, uh, the enemy'd drawn up a lot closer than they'd figgered and they got to shootin. at 'em. So they got busy right quick and put up a barricade around out of a old reel fence that was in a pasture out in the woods, just built up a square around 'em and they shot through, through there and hit the doctor on the heel and he jumped over the fence and lit out back to the hospital and they lit out after him. So when they got in the hospital, they asked him where would they send the supplies. Said they never found out from where the doctor was going to set up the hospital, said he run off and left 'em. (Laughter) -20- Granny would tell that and laugh. But my grandfather would never drink whisky where he could feel it to amount to anythin, he would always, he kept whisky, he drank it. And they'd have these turkey shootins. (Unclear name) Lenhardt told my father this, I was a little feller, settin around, you know, listenin. And said, Well, we thought we'd get Uncle Julius, his name was Julius and, we thought we'd get Uncle Julius shore nuff yesterday. Pa said, How's that? Well, says, he begin to take his bottle and said he hit it a little long, said we thought we seen his eyes awatering. Says we got ready for 'em. Said lo and behold he hit that spot right in the center, said it didn't bother him a bit. Said took the biggest turkey we had along. And he took the turkey home every, every turkey shoot they had. Now, in the fall of the year, see, they lived like on a little knoll here and then there was a little bitty spring branch, just a small little branch between that and the barn over yonder, way over there. Looked to be as fer as from here to that house over yonder. And, uh, ever fall of the year when the apples would get ripe, he'd have 'em put an apple on top of the gatepost and he'd get out there on the steps and set down and knock the apple offa the gatepost over the barn. It didn't look like it was possible, but he'd do that, you know, done that the whole up until he died. (Yvonne) : wasn't he. (Mr. Wood) (Helen) : (Mr. Wood) : He must have been a good sharpshooter,.then, Yeah. He was a show-off. Some of those fellers could really shoot. (Mr. Wood): Now, my mother, talking about her borrying stuff, all I ever knowed her borrying was when the -- when the cattle'd give stringy, bloody lookin. milk, and they'd send her to different places around there and it'd look like just the country's full of witches. (Carol): Well, did she know where to go borrow, or was she just borrowing 'til the cow gave better milk. I mean would you know who the witch was? Mr. Wood: Well, she'd borry, uh, they, they had an idee who the witches were and she'd go and borry somethin from 'em and it'd get all right. (Carol): Did they ever get any medicine from the witches? (Mr. Wood): No, they never did take any medicine. They made some though. Homemade stuff. Talkin about this medicine, everything about it, now, let me see now, what his name was. I've seen em do it, always stuck -21- with it (questionable transcription), Can't think of the feller's name He was partly, I don't know, off or something. Anyway, he made medicine. Something would hit him and he'd go and git him a certain kind of little bush or shrub or sumpin, take the bark and different things, fix his medicine up. I, I was in part of this, I mean I heard it, and, uh, fellow Holley Shubert was the man makin the medicine. Fellow Holley was a man used to live in the town I was raised in, that I was born in, Reepsville. He was in a store in Langdon and Shubert was talkin to him. And I never will forget, Fred Tye was there, he heard it too, Fred was in there, Fred was clerkin in that store and he was, I don't know, he was off a little bit, or somethin was wrong with him, but anyway he built an extra room to his house and just had bottle after bottle and row after row of medicine and he never had it, uh, labelled only jist one shelf there's four or five or dozen different kinds, you know, and he had, couldn't tell what it was fer. So, uh, one day we was in the store and he was buying sumpin and Mr. Holley went to stoop down right quick and got a catch in his back gittin somethin underneath the counter, And he got up all crooked, done around, and Shubert said, Mr. Holley, said what you need is my, some kind of neuralgia stuff and he went on talkin and Holley stopped and looked right at him, said Mr. Shubert, said, do you ever take any of that medicine you make? He leant over the counter and said Hel-1-1-1 no! No. Then Holley just died laughing. He made it for everybody else but didn't take it for himself. [Mr. Wood reminisces about a childhood incident involving hiding in the loom house] (Helen): Well, Daddy, Grandma Wood, or was it Grandpa Wood, could cure thrush in children's mouths, which one was it? (Mr. Wood): Oh, it was my grandfather, my father. He'd blow in your mouth. (Carol): Well, could he talk fire out of people, too? If he could do that, he could probably talk fire out. (Mr. Wood): Now, Billy McClure could get the far out, because my father was burned, and my sister, both bad, and I went and got him there, lived at (inaudible) Station, that was around 1900, we left there in 19 and 1. (Yvonne): Well, how do they do that? (Mr. Wood): I've got the scripture somewhere but I don't know where it is the scripture you quoted. (Conversation) (Mr. Wood): My sister, we were playing High (sic) Spy around the house, hidin around the house, mother was a warshin, and she had a row of tubs on benches agin the house, and uh, her warsh pot was out here about oh, I'd say fifteen feet, or mebbe twenty, you had to give a couple of steps from the tub to the warsh pot, kind of away from the house to be safe, and they had a great big far under it, and she was puttin the clothes out of there, she'd get 'em on a paddle and carry 'em over there and dump em in there then put 'em back to rinse 'em, so forth. Well, she had boiled some clothes in the pot and she had a bunch comin and Nanny was arunnin and she didn't see her, she was lookin back to see if somebody was right behind her and she run into that just wrapped around her neck, just like that, around her shoulders and her neck, all, and she said, Run get Mr. McClure, run get Mr. McClure. Well, he lived up across the railroad in a little old house up there, old big farm out in the country but he'd moved into the little house. And, uh, I went up there, and he was at home. And we come trottin down there. I told him what had happened and was tellin him part of it as we were comin along and, uh, he says, You run ahead and git her out there in the, under the well shed where I can get to her. The well shed was on the other side of the house. The well. So by the time he got there, we had Nanny out there sittin in the chere, had her clothes all down and her hair tied up, just, mother just got done with it. She took a little towel, I believe and tied her hair up this way, you know, out of the way, and blowed and talked and went on and went on and she never blistered. Of course that all happened in a little bit. -23- Now, my father had a pipe busted on a boiler, steam pipe broke and broke right out on his arm, right there, just like that and I run got Mr. Abner, uh, McClure and he happened to be at home that time, he come down there and that never blistered. Now, I just wonder about that. Well, I've got that there, I never did try it on anybody, never did test it out, but it's somethin about far, I don't remember what it was, I've got it in some of my pockets, some of my old pockets, but I don't know where it's at. I got that from a fisherman. I was fishin down near Port St. Joe. [The following stories were taken in shorthand from Mr. Wood] This man, he worked in a funeral home. Some of the people was laying there, you know. One man h~~as down there and he just got up and left. Well, the Denning boys told this on him. Said Cole was making a speech over the radio and this Hadacol, I believe, they were advertising. They claimed so much for it they went ahead and said Henry was laying out a corpse, you know, and instead of getting, embalming this man with embalming fluid, they put Hadacol in his mouth, and he got up and walked away. There was these two men, and they decided to meet at a tavern and see who was the best man. The other feller had been there a little good bit and had his horse tied up on the highway. The other feller got there and inquired whether -24- the man had got there. Said Is that his horse? Said, said, well it's in the way, and he picked it up, picked up the horse and threw him over the fence. And when he saw his horse over the fence he got on it and rode away as fast as he could. Now, I don't know if that's true or not, that's what they told me. SIDE C: YVONNE TURNER My father tells a story, uh, that is true. He lived in Bay St. Louis, Mississippi when he was a young man and he lived there during the yellow fever epidemic when so many, many people died, and it was about the same that the entire town of Port St. Joe, Florida was wiped out with yellow fever. He helped many, many times, uh, with people who were seriously ill, but one of the stories that came out of it that's always been a precious story to me is about a young friend of his who was a beautiful young girl and she was engaged to be married real soon. My daddy was a member of the Catholic church and he served on the altar even after he was grown, now, that was real unusual for a, a man to be an altar boy after, after he was grown. But he was going to serve at this girl's wedding and she was stricken with yellow fever and died and they buried her in a crypt there in the St. Stanislaus Cemetery in Bay St. Louis and that night, someone went into the ... Carol: Tell why they were buried in a crypt. Yvonne: Well, they buried most of the people in the crypts -25- there because of the water factor, they had to be buried above ground and these crypts are beautiful things. But that night, uh, a man went to the crypt to steal her diamond ring and he cut her finger to cut the finger off and get the ring, and when he did that, she came back to life and lived for many years afterwards. And to me that's been one of the treasured stories that my father told me. (Approx. 8 ' ) Now, Carol wants me to tell another story that I remember fragments of, but it's an interesting story. There was an old Frenchman named Mr. Peolee, and he must have been a real good story teller, and he tells the story about the River Styx. It's located between Mobile and Pensacola and that area is still real swampy to me, and how anyone could even get down to the River Styx before the highway went through I don't know, but they said right near where Highway 98 is now, uh, a boat would cross the river every night, and it was just a few minutes after Midnight, almost the same time every night, and it made just two trips. And they said it never travelled when the moon was full, just almost dark nights, and you couldn't see the shape of the boat. It didn't look exactly like a canoe, nor what we call a skiff, it was not even a raft, but it was just an odd shaped boat, and you couldn't see the oars but you could see the place in the water, the ripples in the water where the oars paddled -26- across, and it'd go from one side to the other, and it always stopped for about ten minutes, and each time it made the trip, there was a big alligator that followed it. And I wish I could remember the details of it because this is a good one too, but that's all I remember about it. (Approx. 10') There was two men, uh, went hunting down in the swamps of Fort, uh, Wewahitchka, Florida, and that's a swampy area, too. Now I've been fishing down there and I'd hate to think that I was going to have to be lost in that woods. Well, that's what happened to them. They wandered just about all night in freezing cold weather and they finally spotted a tiny little light. They went up to this little one-room cottage, cabin with uh, an old stick and dirt chimney, knocked on the door and an old man came to the door and said he had four dogs inside and he invited them in and he had a pot of coffee that he was making there on the fireplace, and he asked them if they would have a cup of coffee and they said yes, and he added a few grounds of coffee to what was already in there and put some water in there and said they had some coffee, and I can imagine how that coffee taste, but anyway, they said it was good. And he told them that he'd be glad to let 'em spend the night there, so he told 'em they could sleep down on the floor by the fireplace -27- and they slept with the four dogs. The next morning they got up and went outside and said they saw the biggest bear skin they'd ever seen in their life, and just about all the hair was off of it, the thing was so old, and they asked the old man where it came from, and he said, I killed the bear. And they said, You mean you killed that thing? And he said, Yes, I did. Said, he was raiding my beehives. He said I watched the way he came in every time and said it was the same path, and I thought, Well I'm going to rig up my rifle so I can kill him or let him trip and kill himself. Uh, must of had some kind of rope or something attached so the bear would trip it, I don't know how he could do it, but he measured the stride between the bear's tracks and measured the size of his foot, and by that he determined the heighth of the bear, where his heart would be. And, he said, sure enough, two nights after he rigged his gun up to fire, uh, he heard it go off. And he let one of his dogs out and said the dog barked and barked. And he said, Well, anyway the bear didn't kill him. But he wouldn't go out until daylight came. The next morning he got out there and said he saw the bear down the path just a little ways, and said he finally got up courage to get up close enough with it to poke it with a pole and it didn't move and said then he went up there and looked, and sure enough, he had shot it through the heart and killed it. (Approx. 18') You want me to tell about the Indian. Mr. Bonifay lived up on Econfina Creek years ago, and, uh, his granddaughter tells me that he used to take her to a willow tree there on the banks of the Econfina Creek and say there's an old Indian buried here, and he'd say he was a mean Indian. He couldn't get along with the Indians, and he couldn't get along with the white settlers. And said the Indian died, and the Indians wouldn't put him in their burial grounds because they said they didn't want anything to do with him at all, he was just too mean. So they took him down on the banks of the Econfina and buried him by the willow tree. Said, Now, we're rid of him. But said they didn't get rid of him, because when the moon was full and the coyotes howled, this old Indian came back and danced on the banks of the Econfina. (Approx. 20') This is another one that came from Bay County years-- I know that the Wilsons were the first people that ever had a funeral home here, and the family still operate this business and they're wonderful people. But this pioneer was a card, and people knew him, who knew him, uh, loved to listen to him talk, and he says that he really did this, and I wouldn't doubt it, the things I've heard about him. Said he buried an old Negro man and he knew that his wife had money to pay for the funeral but she wouldn't pay for it. He tried ... -29- (Carol): Wasn't it insurance money that she got? (Yvonne): I don't know what it was but anyway, he knew, he knew the people here, there wasn't a lot of people that lived here, he knew the white people and the colored people, knew 'em well, and he knew that she could pay for it. And she just wouldn't pay. He tried and tried to collect. So one night about dark he said to some of the fellows working there, said Take one of those boxes there and throw a little dirt on it, I'm going down there and collect from Mary. So, he drove the old truck down and got out and Mary was sitting on the front porch. Said he got out and he said, uh, Mary, said, I brought Henry back, said where do you want me to put him? Said Mr. Buck, I, I don't want Henry! Said wait just a minute, I'll pay you for him and you take him back where you got him! (Approx: 21') This is the Bay Line, uh, runs from Dothan to Panama City, and when it was first put in operation, the passenger train was a real important part of it, and when we came here, uh, well, over forty years ago, the passenger train was still uh, a real important part of the line. But said this first conductor on there, uh, had quite a few experiences that were funny. Said that he had a brother-in-law that lived near Cottondale that would ride with him occasionally and they just couldn't get along, they fussed all the way up and all the way back and entertained all the people on the train, and it was usually full with people. Said -30- one day the brother-in-law got on and went to Dothan and he got him some gin and the train had to stay in Dothan about five hours. Well, when they started back, the brother-in-law was pretty well loaded, and they just almost fought all the way back to Cottondale, which is not a very long distance, but the conductor pulled the cord for the engineer to stop just outside of Cottondale because he was going to put the man right off at his house because he was so drunk. And he stepped down the steps and got off with him, and they scuffled around out there and he said Well, I better go, so he just reached up and gave the engineer the highball and stepped back to get aboard the train and when he did his brother-in-law caught ahold of his pants and pulled them completely off so he had to pull the cord and have the engineer back up so he could get out and get his pants and get them on before he could start again. (Approx. 28') Another story that this first conductor tells is, uh, about, uh, a man that he knew real well that lived in Panama City. And, uh, he got on the train in Dothan and was going back to Panama City and said he noticed something, kinda big sized package in his lap, and says, Babe, (this man's name was Babe Savage) said Babe, What you got there in that package? And he said, he said Dynamite. And the conductor said, Good God, man, don't you know you'll blow this train up? And said with that he pulled the cord and put him off right out in the middle of the swamp. -31- (Approx. 30') I have a real good friend, you remember Annie Hodges, Carol, the Harrisons lived down, down in the, near that branch by the Turners over in Millville. Well, her mother, (Oh yeah, they're just lovely, lovely people, and I just loved her mother, she was a dear soul), and her mother tells this story about, uh, an uncle of hers. Said that he worked in the field and they had two little children. And, uh, his wife was pregnant and was expecting a baby just any day, and he'd been working down in the field one morning and, uh, was coming in at noon time for lunch, and he had to pass through, uh, oh, I guess you call it branch, like, or little spring area, and just as he got .down into the bottom where the spring was, his wife came running to meet him and, uh, he held out his hands to touch her and she disappeared. And when he got home, they told him that she had just died giving birth to that baby. The baby lived. That's a true story but it's a sad one. (Approx. 31') And there's a story, another true story, about a man named Dick Whittington, he's a very influential man here in this community and he still lives, but he's quite elderly. His wife was a school teacher here for years, and they were one of the most devoted couples I had ever known in my life. She was a ' beautiful, beautiful woman and they just seemed so happy every time you saw them. They never had any children but their life was just so complete. And she died just a few years ago, and -32- one, she was buried in Greenwood Cemetery, you know where that is, it's where we have our lots, but one night, Dick dreamed, yeah, she was buried in the low part of that cemetery out there, it's out, it goes kinda down hill. But anyway, one night he dreamed that, uh, she was calling to him and she said, uh, Honey, I'm wet and I'm cold, come get me. And he got up out of bed and called Smith Funeral Home here who buried her and said, Woody, now you just got to go get her and take her out to Greenwood [she meant a different cemetery] and put her in a vault because I can't stand that. And Woody Smith went at night and moved her body and sure enough, the coffin was filled with water. that's another true story. (Approx. 32') And Carol, I almost forgot to tell you this story that Annie Hodges told me that Mrs. Harrison told her. Said, ah, she was the only girl in the family with four boys, and said the brothers were real good to her, and when she was 12 years old, they used to take her to, uh, square dances. And they had to cross a footlog to go to the dances, and said the oddest thing was that a light followed them down in the water every time they crossed that footlog. She said, now, her mother wasn't superstitious or anything but said there never was a way to explain this light that it crossed the footlog every time, it was down in the water. I said it was some kind of marine light or something, but said that the light was in the same place every time they crossed that footlog. -33- (Approx. 38') And she said, you know how Mrs. Stanley used to tell the weird stories, and she said that Mrs. Stanley told her about the, uh, church there in Crestview that was haunted. And said that people got to where they was even afraid to go by there, that there was a woman that just cried and moaned, and uh, you usually heard the noise late at night. But said, uh, one time, two wagon loads of kids went to a square dance someplace and they decided that they'd go back by that old haunted church and find out just what that noise was. And said when they got there, the noise was just terrific. Said that the moaning was just terrible and they'd get up there and run back to the wagon but finally got up courage to go in the church and when they got in there it was doves, these mourning doves, said about a dozen of them flew out just as hard as they could go, and you can imagine how~-r can't think of any .noise, ah, anything that's sadder that just one mourning dove, let alone hearing a dozen of them. (Approx. 39') (Carol): You know the story that you forgot to tell me is the one about the panther. Oh, the one that I said should be titled "Streaking"? Years ago, people would settle on what they call a section. Now I don't even know how big that is, but anyway, it was, I believe, over probably two or three hundred acres and there was a young couple married and settled uh, in a part of the country that the -34- girl had never lived in. And, anyway they told her when they built their cabin that panthers roamed that area. And the first year they didn't take in too much land because of course they didn't have the tools they do now to clear with, but they had a good sized field. And they told the girl if she ever heard a noise like a woman screaming that it would be a panther and to pull off her clothes one piece at a time and run as hard as she could because the panther would stop and tear whatever you put down to shreds. And said one day she used that knowledge to very great advantage. Said she took some water down to the, her husband in the field and when she got about half way home she heard this scream and she knew it was a panther. So she had on a big bonnet. She pulled that off first and threw it down, and she ran on a little further and pulled off a jacket that she had and then she pulled off uh, an apron, and she pulled off her skirt, and then her blouse and running just as hard as she .could,, leaving one piece of her clothes. Said when she got home she was stark naked but she beat the panther and saved her life. And she did get to see him and he was a giant of an animal. -35- SIDED: MR. TOM K. LUNAS Uh, you want that story about the angel, don't you. That's what you want. Well, it's just as true as I tell it. It happened in Marshall County about four miles north of Petersburg, Tennessee which is in the edge of Lincoln county. And they was a man by the name of Henry Worley. He come to my daddy, we lived about three miles from Henry, he says, y'all's sow's over in my corn field, and, uh, says, uh, I want you to come, let the boys come tomorrer and get it out. And, uh, he says, well, I'll send 'em over there in the mornin. Well, we went over. It was a beautiful mornin, there wasn't a cloud to be seen nowhere. Well, we got to that place and just a little ways from there, just a few hundred feet was where a house had been, a cabin there in them woods. It was kind of a wilderness to get back in to that place, that's the reason the man was hogging his corn out. And we got up on that fence, and the hogs was up to my left up nearly the top of the hill around a little sieve ('? pronounced seeve) spring. And, uh, somethin says look back to your right. Well, I looked back to the right and there was a little fog about as high as that door there and a woman walked out of it. She was barefooted, dressed in white with a piece of ribbon around her waist and the hows on the left side like women tie them and, uh, that ribbon was about four inches wide and one piece of it hung about half-way to her thigh to her knee and the othern hung nearly to her knee and it was cut bias, I can remember that. It -36- was uh, kind of a pink. And she had a brooch of diamonds on her forehead in her hair, just a brooch of diamonds and a little trail behind. Her hair, hit was black. Black hair. And, uh, when she come out of that fog, says Look here what I've done. That was plain to me. I understood that. She come on, she come down to about, she was about as fer as from here to the road out there from us. Well, she come about half way to us, she asked us, says, Who is that? (High voice) Says, Who is that? Well, we never said nothin. Well, she come on just about as close as Mr. Simmons right there, and squatted down behind, they's about two stalks of corn there and an old pea vine or two running over em. Hit her just a little bit, and she squatted down right there and she went to talkin a foreign language, laughin, havin the biggest time, Lord goodness alive. Well, Roy said to me, that was my younger brother, about 10 years old, Ask that woman if she's seen our sow, sorta whispered like. I says Hush. kept talkin. I realized somethin's funny, and so she just In this foreign language. Well, I said to him, I said Let's go down and get Henry and bring him back up there and let him see if he could find our sow. I wasn 1 .. t goin over in there. And he went, when we went out ahead of her, she talks that foreign language, we went out of hearin of her. Well, we went way of down there, it was, I guess Henry was the clostest one to her, he was about a mile, lived about a mile from her, where she come to us at and we went down there and he was out in the yard and we called him -37- and told him, said, we can't find our sow up yonder. Well, we never told him about this womc1n. Well, we went out a hearin, of this woman, as I told you awhile ago. Well, we come back in hearin of her. He is in front. He was first in a little path about that wide and had to part the weeds back to get through there. And, uh, so, I was next and he had a little pup with him and I, we had a little shepherd dog, had a shepherd dog with us. Well that dog and little pup was up next to me. Well, Roy, my younger brother run around them dogs and says That woman's still up yonder. Well, I told him again, I just says Hush. And wan't any more said til we got up there. Well, Henry curled up on the fence and looked each way and said, Your sow ain't in here boys, says go on up, go on back home. Says (inaudible) there wan't no hogs in there. Well, when he got up to the fence that woman oh before we got there she hushed talkin. And, uh, when uh, bout the time Roy says That woman's still up yonder. Well, then, we started, we went up west, goin up that mountain there. Henry went back down his way, towards his house. Well, Henry's little dog started, it looked like, goin to follow our dog and I told him, said, Henry, call your dog, uh, your pup, I says he goin to follow our dog away. Well, when I done that she called him three times. Henry? [high] Henry? Well, he turned around and faced her, turned back and says, [very softly] Go on, boys, go on home. Well, she went back in that foreign language and we went about a -38- quarter of a mile up that hill, up that road, we never did get over in that field because them hogs might eat us up. We right on up that, to an old road, I guess a hundred or two years old there that people had quit travellin er, I went down in a little sink where I could hear that woman. Well, my brother stayed back there, a 10 year old boy, uh, brother of mine, and he says, Come back here. I went back. Says That woman's still down there. Well she was, talkin that foreign language. Well, we went on away from her. Well, the next, uh, we never t-- that was on a Wednesday mornin. We, I never told it, uh, we never told it until the next Wednesday at supper, when my mama was gittin supper before my daddy and my older brother come in, why I, I told her about it. She says What? I says Yeah. Well, she told my daddy and my older brother when they come in, Thee (?) that's my older brothe says I'm gain over there and ask Henry about that and see what they did see, He couldn't believe it. And Henry told him when he got over there. He ast him said What was that you boys seen in the holler? Said I don't know, said didn't belong here. Well, next mornin, Miz Hasting--she was a Worley and married a Hasting-well we went over there and my mammy told her about it. Said, Why, it wan't nobody but Henry Worley's wife, says they buried her alive. They give her too much morphines, he didn't want her, she had T.B. and put her in a coma and buried her. Says she was over on her side when they opened -39- her up at the graveyard, laying on her side. Didn't go very fer (?) And, uh, my wife, she ... (Mr. Ingram): You mean they opened her up before they buried her and she'd turned ... (Mr. Lunas): Before at the graveyard, you know, there, like some people do now. She was opened the last thing ... (Mr. Ingram): And she turned over. (Mr. Lunas): And Miz Hasting says Well they buried her alive. She was on her side when we got to the graveyard with her. And, uh. (Mr. Ingram): They didn't embalm people then (Mr. Lunas) : No, no, they just ... They got to the barn down there on the pike that, uh, was Mr. Leonard's, and they went in the barn under the shed there til a little shower of rain went. And Henry got out and looked all around and said, Let's go, says it's done quit rainin. That was the man that was the husband of this dead woman. He ought to have let somebody else done that, oughtn't he. Wanted to go on to the graveyard with it. And, uh, I'm goin to tell you another one. (Mr. Ingram): You mean when they were burying her they had to go into a barn? (Mr. Lunas): They had to, before they got to the graveyard, there come a shower of rain, you had horses to a wagon and pulled her like that, you know, that's the way they used to carry people to the graveyard. The rain's over, let's go. And said when they got to the cemetery and opened her up -40- why, she was laying over on her side. Said they buried her alive. Well that was the prettiest woman I, I've, I reckon that I ever looked at, nearly in the way of a human bein. (Mr. Ingram): That spirit, or whatever it was. (Mr. Lunas): Spirit, or whatever it was. I talked to the preacher about it, he ast him, I says does angels appear to you, I says. Sure do. Sure do. SIDE E: Approx. 25') Well, I've got another experience that man hardly has ever had. Just like that there woman, that angel, appearing to us. I've always called it angels, I believe it was. And, uh, I was a trapper for about 11 years, er, my young part of my life and my mother'd allus get me up about 4 o'clock. Well, I travelled about 2 or 3 mile to these woods over there where we seen that woman that come to us and uh, my brotherinlaw had cleaned up about 8 or 9 acres of them woods on top of that hill 'n' made a corn field out of it. Well, this was in November. I'd set my traps and I decided I'd go back to home. Well, I, my daddy always told me not to go in them woods after dark, stay out of them woods until it's day light. Well I carried .22 shot rifle with me and I had it loaded. Well, I crawled up on the fence that mornin and I set there til just about good day. Well I says I'm goin across this corn field this time, cut off a little. Well there's rough right down at the bottom and I got up on -41- top why then I hit a kind of a little level. Well he had barbed wire all around that field lo keep everythin out of there but what he wanted in there. And, uh, I was walkin along and I got about as fer as from here to the road out there to the fence, the fence, the wire was about that fer apart, it kindly got old and dropped down one part of it. And here come a sow, oh, a vigorous [pronounced vTgorous] one and about eight or ten shoats with her just ready to eat me up. I run fer my life. I went troo that hole and toed (throwed) my gun down to shoot her, and I says that sow come through here she'll eat me up. Well the timber's all so big I couldn't jump up and grab a limb, well, uh, I'd a had to run fer my life, er if I'd a missed it, well (laughter). Well, when I went troo and throwed my gun down to shoot that old big sow, why there wan't no sow there. The sound of a minnie ball come right troo that place where I come troo that fence and went on right over that holler and over right over Henry Worley's house. That man where we went off and got to come to that woman. Well, we weren't very fer from where I seen that woman. A min ... just the sound of it went, changed from her just about to-you've hectrd vigorous (?) hawgs, a whole lot of em, well, there's about eight or ten of em, a big old sow, drahhhh, aaaahhh, just ready to tear me up, and I looked around at the sow and the sow was just about half, you know the sound when (inaudible). Well, that's how loud it was, and I run fer my life. Well that -42- sound from a hawg sounds just like a minnie ball when it come troo when I turned around and it went right over that man's house, I stood there and watched it. I got over in that field, and there wan't a hawg track in there. Hunted all over. I said, My goodness alive. Now what was that. -43- Pl I think I would name this story. The String of Knives and these folks were related to you all since the 2 of them was your Grandma Mary Rutledges first cousins. And even closer Kind folks they were Double cousins to her I'm going to send you 2 storys for your daughter. She can use either one, or boath of them If she Wants to. The first one is about my Grandfather on my daddys side. And his Brother, my Grandfather was a Doctor. named William Miller (nick named Bill Miller. and his Brother John. Miller. You knew old Uncle John Miller. Well to set you straight, my Grandfather. Doctor William (Bill) Miller. was a first cousin to your Grandmother Mary Rutledge. So my Grandfather Doctor William Miller. and his Brother John had bin on a trip like young folks usually do. But Back then they didnt have cars like the young folks has today. So they were a foot. So I believe They were on their way back to their home. And they were a long ways from home, and tired out, and sleepy. So they come to a house. and stopped. And asked them to let them stay All night there. And those people let my Granddaddy. and his Brother John Stay there with thim that night. I do not no those peoples names where they stayed. But they made a bed down in the floor close to their fireplace. And my Grandfather being so tired, he went right to sleep, and snored a lot. But his Brother John was suspicious, and he could not go to sleep. And late in the night there come some folks In there. And they had a lot of Knives. And they had horses, and saddles. -44- And they didnt have no electric lights In those days. So folks usually had lamps or lanterns, or maby candles. And some of the people would just use lights frome their fire places after their work was through. So It was also with these folks Where my Grandfather. and his Brother John was at that night. So Uncle John got to watching the strange actions of them folks they didnt have no lamps lit, and was just a letten the fire go out In the fireplace. No body wasn't going to bed, and no one wasn't talking out loud, finally when Uncle John could not stand it much longer, he kept on shaking (I believe he said) my Grandfather. and whispering to my Grandfather til he got my Grandfather waked up, So they got up and put their shoes and clothes on, and ask them folks to excuse them, Which they did. And when my Grandfather. and his Brother John steped out of that house, they left there a running. And those folks waited just long enough to give my grandfather. and his Brother John enough time to be comeing back inthe house. And when they saw that my Grandfather. and his Brother John did not aim to come back In there, Those men got on some fast running horses, and took off down the road. the same direction my Grandfather. and his Brother John Went. And they heard them horses a running fast and a coming their Way. So Grandfather. and his Brother they steped outside of the road and lay down behind some logs. and lay there. And them folks went away on down the road, and was gone some little bit. When finally my Grandfather and his Brother heard them come Back up the road, and when they had got passed them, my Grandfather -45- and his Brother John proceeded to go on their way. Back to their home. This story Ive heard Uncle John tell it. I never saw my Grandfather Miller. To avoid punching more holes in the notebook paper used by Vanzie Rutledge to record the following story, I have used the paper as it is, causing the first page of the story to appear on the reverse side of the paper. Pl Ive named this Story The stump that got up and walked away This story was about my Great Grand Mother and great grandfather. on my mothers side. Heres my 2nd story. Its concerning my Great Grand mother on my mothers side. Her name was Jane Ellenburg. I think She was a Tate before her marriage to Wilson Ellenburg. My Grandfather Wilson Ellenburg was barned somewhere in Germany. so I understand. He was around 2 years old when he came to the United States. I believe he came from somewheres In Edenburg Germany. I understand he was German. and Jew. So He married Jane Tate. a Dutch. And when the old Confederate War broke out. They had 3 little girls. named Betty called Bet. and Mary. and Martha Lucendy. Martha was my mamas mother. You all knew her as Aunt Matty. So my Grandpa Wilson Ellenburg lived most of his time not to far from SeBastopool Mississippi. And when the war Between the north. and the south Broke out. my grandfather. Wilson Ellenburg went to war. Wherther he was drafted. or Volunteered, I dont no. But he went, and fought in the war, so his wife Jane. and the 3 children tryed to stay with her daddy. and stepmother. But it just did not work out good. So my Grandmother. and her children, They moved out Grandmother didnt have much. but she worked hard. And she had rented a place. and had a few chickens and maby other things. 1 good colored woman I believe give her some meat lots of times. And 1 night something got after her chickens. She had an old dog. And so She set that dog out, -47- after Whatever it.was, that was after her chickens, So my Grandmother got her some kind of a club, and she got Behind what She though was a stump. And she stood there and the dog was a trailing what ever it was that had, Bothered the chickens. And While the dog was trailing my Grandmother was standing there with her club, behind what she though was a stumb. And when the dog begin to get up close by, What she thought to be a stump, got up and started to walking off, and she just stood there, with her club. and never even Daired to use it. She was so surprised, or stuned, at what she thought was a stump to go Walking off. She though It to be a negro man. This is a true story and happened In the State of Mississippi. And you are Welcome to use Boath ,of these storys If you wish to. This story and the other one to If you wish to, And I hope That they boath will be a help to your Daughter. -48- APPENDIX BIOGRAPHICAL SKETCHES OF STORY TELLERS. ( 1) Augusta Schroeder White ("Gus") (2) Cora Tindel Lewis (3) Marilyn Tindel Butler These three ladies are sisters, first cousins of my father. They were reared in the rural community of Slocomb, Alabama, not far from my father's home of Wicksburg. They are all in their seventies. When Cora's husband died, she bought a house next door to Marilyn. Gus is the only sister to leave Slocomb; she lives in Crestview, another rural community, located in Northwest Florida. (4) Lilly Belle Humphries Mrs. Humphries has been a neighbor to my family for 40 years. It took her and my mother 30 years to get on a first name basis-they always called one another "Mrs. Humphries" and "Mrs. Turner" She is retired from the nursing profession. (5) Christian McKinnon Miss McKinnon was 82 on the day she told Mother her story about the Indians who turned out to be stumps. She told her life's story to the tape, and I have transcribed it and attached it in its entirety. (Page 51) (6) Josephine Bellamy Mrs. Bellamy is housekeeper and companion to Miss McKinnon. She cared for Miss McKinnon after her stroke and nursed her back to health. They have been together over thirty years. (7) Alma Turner Harmon Alma is my father's sister. She has lived 'in Panama City, Florida; since she was three;. in 1917.' She was reared in the small town of Millville, just outsi<le Panama City, Her father was a carpenter, and her mother reared children, having her last child at 45. (8) Mr. R.G. Wood Mr. Wood is the father of Helen Wood Turner, who is married to my father's youngest brother. Mr. Wood was raised in Reepsville, North Carolina. He has followed several different "livings" in his life, from farming to running a store to working in a saw mill. His daughter comments that he is a frustrated preacher. He is 81 years old, and since the death of his wife has lived a rather lonely life of retirement in Panama City, Florida. -49- (9) Yvonne Amanda Turner My mother, Yvonne, was named for the wife of Mr. Peolee, the Frenchman she mentions in her story of the River Styx. She was born in Biloxi in 1912. After the death of her mother, when she was 11, she and her two sisters moved with their father from town to town,' spending summers with their grandmother in Sumrall, Mississippi. She has a large repertoire of stories told her by her grandmother and her father, and tells them when she is reminded of a story by something in the conversation, or when she needs to make a point. But she was surprisingly bashful in front of the tape recorder. I have asked her to try recording her stories without an audience, and perhaps this will be successful. (10) Mr. Tom K. Lunas Mr. Lunas'a tape was forwarded to me by a friend of our family, Mrs. Sarah Haney. From the contents of the tape, it would appear that Mr. Lunas is in a nursing, or rest home, in Tennessee. The gentleman who taped Mr. Lunas's stories is Stanley Ingram. Mr. Ingram professes: ',' I write about UFO' s, flying saucers and these mysterious things that people don't understand, don't believe, but I have reason to know it's so.'' Apparently his interest in Mr. Lunas's story was limited to establishing the veracity of an uncommon event. (11) Vanzie Rutledge To briefly describe'Vahzie Rutledge .is a difficult task. This lady is my mother's aunt. She lives in Sumrall, Mississippi, on an annual income that probably does not exceed $2,000.00. Her greatest joy is her incredible correspondence. She writes to whoever will write to her, and her letters are saved carefully by their recipients. They are full of marvelous details of a simple life that seems full to the brim with living. Her correspondents include a heart surgeon in Hollywood who read one of the letters she had written to my aunt (his patient) and initiated a correspondence with her. Another sister of my mother has been saving her letters for over 20 years with the intention of publishing them ~someday." Aunt Vanzie's education did not extend past the third grade. -50- AUTOBIOGRAPHICAL SKETCH OF CHRISTIAN McKINNON This is Christian McKinnon, who used to be a first grade teacher in the schools, oh, not so many years, but a few. I did most of my teaching in the first grade, though I taught all grades from the beginners through the junior high, but my real love was the first grade pupils, I just loved them every one and I ate up the love they gave to me. But I, by the time I was, I started when I finished 9th grade, and then, after having a year of review, I took the state examination and got my certificate, and I started a life of teaching and going to summer schools in the summer time and taking all of the extension courses I could possibly get in and then in 56 years, I was able to get my degree from college, and, of course, you know I was happy over that. But I had several, oh, I had taught, I started off teaching in a little school up near Quincy, and I was so happy when I got my first check, which was $30.00. Oh, but it meant so much to earn some real money of my own. But I think often about those pupils that I had. I had four grades that year, the first through the fourth. But I had a teacher that taught in the school with me that was much more experienced than I was and she helped me so much in my teaching and that was Miss Ethel Thompson who lived in St. Andrews. I had never known her before but she just meant so much to me, she was a real teacher. Then I taught on for awhile, oh, I guess about from, that was in 1911, and I taught on then until 1936 when the depression came, and I was so, uh, the salary was so low until I gave up teaching and went in.to the welfare work. So I was in that work for a year and then I began teaching a WPA nursery school, which I did for two years. Then I went back to college and got an undergraduate certificate and started teaching again, and I continued until 1950, when I had a cerebral hemorrhage and had to give up my work for five years, but the Lord was so good to me. He gave me strength and knowledge to go back to be a real active teacher then and I taught six years, which really raised my retirement over 150% and gave me enough that I can live on now. I retired at age 62, and this is my little home that I have here that I have worked and bought and I just love it. -51- A PDF transcript exists for this recording. Please contact an archivist for access. Professor John Burrison founded the Atlanta Folklore Archive Project in 1967 at Georgia State University. He trained undergraduates and graduate students enrolled in his folklore curriculum to conduct oral history interviews. Students interviewed men, women, and children of various demographics in Georgia and across the southeast on crafts, storytelling, music, religion, rural life, and traditions. As archivists, we acknowledge our role as stewards of information, which places us inaposition to choose how individuals and organizations are represented and described in our archives. We are not neutral, andbias isreflected in our descriptions, whichmay not convey the racist or offensive aspects of collection materialsaccurately.Archivists make mistakes and might use poor judgment.We often re-use language used by the former owners and creators, which provides context but also includes bias and prejudices of the time it was created.Additionally,our work to use reparative languagewhereLibrary of Congress subject termsareinaccurate and obsolete isongoing. Kenan Research Center welcomes feedback and questions regarding our archival descriptions. If you encounter harmful, offensive, or insensitive terminology or description please let us know by emailingreference@atlantahistorycenter.com. Your comments are essential to our work to create inclusive and thoughtful description.