Jill Pomerance interview with Alan Wilensky, Natalie Wilensky, Scott Martin, Joanie Martin, Beth Coonan, and Jim Coonan

The John Burrison Georgia Folklore Archive recordings contains unedited versions of all interviews. Some material may contain descriptions of violence, offensive language, or negative stereotypes reflecting the culture or language of a particular period or place. There are instances of racist language and description, particularly in regards to African Americans. These items are presented as part of the historical record. This project is a repository for the stories, accounts, and memories of those who chose to share their experiences for educational purposes. The viewpoints expressed in this project do not necessarily represent the viewpoints of the Atlanta History Center or any of its officers, agents, employees, or volunteers. The Atlanta History Center makes no warranty as to the accuracy or completeness of any information contained in the interviews and expressly disclaims any liability therefore. If you believe you are the copyright holder of any of the content published in this collection and do not want it publicly available, please contact the Kenan Research Center at the Atlanta History Center at 404-814-4040 or reference@atlantahistorycenter.com. This recording begins with Alan Wilensky recounting a story about El Diablo, a vigilante. Then at 1:37, Jane Wilensky tells two ghost stories. In the first one a ghost named James E. Peterson haunts the train tracks where he lost his head, and in the second a mailbox repeats Bloody Bones and Dirty Diapers, a variation of the RawHead and Bloody Bones southern American folktale. At 4:52, the interview switches back to Alan Wilensky, who recalls a story about a beaver and a porcupine who befriend each other. He then tells a story in which a man cursed by witches dies attempting to break the curse. Next, Scott Marin tells a humorous story about a man who accidentally shoots his own foot at 6:42; followed by one in which a man paints spots on a leopard. At 8:08, Joanie Martin tells a variation of The Ghost of the White Eye folktale. She also recounts a story about a man being burned to death. Next, at 10:04, Beth Coonan repeats a ghost story about a boy meeting a girl on the bus who turns out to be dead. The recording ends at 12:48 with Jim Coonan telling a story about the Scottish King, Robert Bruce (1274-1329), receiving an omen from a spider and subsequently winning a battle. Alan Wilensky (1964- ) graduated from Lovett School in Atlanta, Georgia. During the 1990s, he moved to Texas, where he married Laurie A. Horowitz (1961- ) in 1993. They had two children and divorced in 2006. Natalie Wilensky (1964- ) graduated from The Westminster School in Atlanta, Georgia. Beth Coonan (1951- ) graduated from Emory University and later from John Hopkins University, where she met her husband, Jim Coonan (1951- ). Afterwards, they moved back to Atlanta. Additional biographical information has not been determined. CONTEMPORARY URBAN FOLKTALES by Jill Pomerance Folklore 301 May 30, 1974 Table of Contents r. Introduction 1 II. Biographical Material on Informants (including release forms) .... A, Natalie Beth Wilensky, . , , , . , , , , , , 2 B. Alan Jay Wilensky, , . , ... , ..... , .. 3 c. Scott Martin . . . . ....... 4 D. Joanie Martin, ........... 5 E. Beth Coonan, ........... 6 F. JimCoonan . . . 7 III, Transcript of tape (titles in quotation marks were given by informant; others are strictly for identification) A, El Dab lo-- Alan Wilensky . . , . . . , , . . , . 8 B, James E, Peterson - Natalie Wilensky .... 9 C, "Black Eyes and Dirty Diapers" Natalie Wilensky, , 10 D, The Beaver and the Porcupine - Alan Wilensky .. , , 11 E, The Ventriliquist - Alan Wilensky. . . , .. , , 122~ F. "The Thing at the End of the Bed/! Scott Martin , , 13 G, The Leopard and his Spots - Scott Martin. , , , , 14 H, Ghost of the Bloody Finger - Joanie Martin ... , 15 I. The Fire - Joanie Martin . . . . . , , . . . , . . . 16 J, The Vanishing Rider- Beth Coonan , . , , , , , , , 17 K. Robert Bruce and the Sptder - Jim Coonan, , . , .. 19 My project consists of eleven contemporary urkan tales, nine of which I received from children,, two of which I received from individuals in their early twenties. All of my informants are either related to me, or related to friends of mine, thus result ing in personal knowledge of their background, All collecting was done at the informant's home in an informal atmosphere, I used a small cassette player for taping, and my enjoyment in col lecting the stories was exceeded only by my informant&! enjoyment in telling them to me. Natalie Bet~ Wilensky Natalie, who is my cousin, is 9\ years old, and attends Lovett, in which she is in the fourth grade, She has a twin brother, and also a younger brother of four, Her parents are quite wealthy, and this is reflected in her lifestyle and personali ty. She is a bright and pretty little girl, and has been pushed by her parents to excell in her school work, several sports, dancing, and music, She was very eager and excited about being taped, and she told me that she had learned the stories from her girlfriends at school. 2 Alan Jay Wilensky Alan, Natalie's twin brother, attends Jackson Elementary School, where he is in the fourth grade, He, too, has been pushed to excell by his parents, and although he is an excellent athlete for his age, and a good student, he is continually being outshined by Natalie, which has had its affects on his personality, and is reflected in his storytelling, He was very excited about being taped, although he appeared very nervous. His storytelling was slightly hampered, as Natalie kep~ shooting him exasperating looks, and inbetween stories, continually questioned him as to if he was making up his stories, I think this contributed to his stuttering and to the confusion of parts of his stories. He told me that he had learned the stories at summer camp. 3 Scott Martin Scott is eight years old, and is in the second grade at Briarlake Elementary School.i I know Scott through his aunt, who is a close friend of mine, Scott is an extremely well-mannered and friendly little boy, and he seemed to enjoy very much being taped, He comes from a very Christian oriented family, and is being raised rather conservatively, Scott's hobbies are soccer and basketball, and he told me that he learned his stories from his parents "when he was a little boy". 4 Joanie Martin Joanie is ten years old and is in the fifth grade at Briarlake Elementary School. She is Scott's sister, Joanie is extremely shy and was very upset at the idea of being taped, although she was eager for me to use her stories in my project. She t~ld me that her hobbies were horse-back fiding and soft-ball, and that she heard her stories from her school-mates. 5 -RELEASEDy letting us collect your traditions--stories, sonr,s, I\\Usic, rememberencea, or beliefs of earlier days--you have made a valuable contribution to preserving and understandinr, s,,uthern history, and especially the way of life of your community. Because you have r,iven unselfishly of your time to do this, the Georgia Folklore Archives, whose representatives are dedicated to preservinr, these traditions, wants to protect your ric;hts to this material by p,uaranteeine; that it uill not be used for unscrupulous commercial profits. Dy signinr, this sheet, you are giving us permission to use this material for educational purposes so that people who are interested can understand how life was in the old days. If you don't want your name to be used, say so--we respect your rieht to privacy. Than!, you for the time you have p,iven to help us record a heritage that is an important part of American life. "In consideration of my intent in helpinr, to preserve my folk heritar,e, . I hereby grant permission to the Georgia Folk Archives and its Director, John Burrison, to publish, ot otherwise make use of, the material recorded from me by the ar,ent of the Georeia Folklore Archives ,;,.,hose name appears on this sheet o Sigl\ed A,1.<lress Agent of Georr;ia Folklore Archives ()() ,, ') (! V, f, "='' ,, ,n ,y\ ,1 ( A Additional llitnes/c)Jc VA,\ ( !t,C) }')( ('.i\ I/{,, J Georr;ia Folklore Archives c/o Pro~essor John Ilurrison Georgia State University 33 Gilmer Street Southeast Atlanta, Ceorr,ia 30303 Beth Coonan Beth. my cousin; is twenty-three years old and is now working as a medical secretary, She attended Emory University for two years; then married and moved to Baltimore. where she cj,r ~ I ' attended John Hopkins University. H~r-and her husband are now living in Atlanta; and this summer they are moving to Scotland; where Beth's husband will attend graduate school. Beth is a very warm and perceptive individual, Her story was one she remembers hearing in high school, Q Jim Coonan Jim, Beth's husband, is twenty-three years old, has a degree in history from John Hopkins University, and will be attending graduate school in Scotland beginning this summer. He is extremely intelligent and unbelievably knowledgeable about almost every subject. He is rather shy, and like,Beth, is very indivd.dualtitic,Jim's story was one his father told him when he was quite young, ,(< 7 -RELEASEDy letting us collect your traditior, s--stories, sonr;s, music, rememberences, or beliefs of earlier days -yo,1 have made a valuable contribution to preserving and understandinr; Southern history, and especially the Hay of life of your commuui.ty. Because you have r;iven unselfishly of your time to do this, the Georgia Folklore Archives, whose representatives are dedicated t:o preservinr; these traditions, wants to protect your ric;hts to this material by r,uaranteeine; that it will not be used for unncrupul ,us commercial profits, Dy signing this sheet, you are e;iving us permission to use this material for educational pilr.poses so that . ,eople who are interested can understand how life was in the old da: s. If you don't want your name to be used, say so--w~ respect y .. ur ri3ht to privacy. Than!, you for the time you have given to help Ul! record a heritar,e that is an important pstt df American life, "In consideration of my intent in helpinr; to preserve my folk heritage, I hereby grant permission to the Georgia Folk Archives and its Ditector, John Burrison, to publish, ot otherwise make use of, the niaterial recorded from me by the ar,ent of the Geore;ia Folklore Archives ,,,hose name appears on this sheet. Address Agent of Georgia Folklore Arc hi ves...;..Q...:~;i:2~d<-....flec.11.0.,, _,f_k,_,"'""'""'-"'1"'.A""''"1x,,.u=\~ _____ _ /) l/ 'J (-- ' /\.d<litional \Jitness G-~/1 , ~Q '/2,,CjY':~&,, /' Georr;ia Folklore Arc~s c/o Pro~essor John Burrison Georgia State University 33 Gilmer Street Southeast Atlanta, Georgia 30303 EL DABLO (Alan Jay Wilensky) Old man and a long long time ago and and he uh he died right right when the day his son was living but this old man was a justice man and he believed in justice and he always helped people and he had a disguise and a mask when he was little and he passed it on to his um when he when he died to his son and his son became like him and and they and they and he had a name called El Dablo and one day these crooks they were they were coming they were coming around the mountain they had stole a whole carriage of money that was supposed to go to a big big bank in Georgia and and El Dablo caught up with them and jumped on jumped on to on one of their horses and and caught one of the men and then when they were about to ride away he shot them the other man he shot um all of them and then then he went to the sheriff and gave all the money back and he got half the sheriff offered him half of pay but he did not take any of the money and he went away this very day his name spreads they can hear it in the wind, 8 JAMES E, PETERSON (Natalie Beth Wilensky) Motifs; E422.l,l headless revenant, E422.l.l,3 actions of headless revenant, E599,7 ghost carries lantern, E783,6 headless body retains life Once in the woods lived a man named James E. Peterson and he was going on a train to see his grandmother in Mass. and when he was on the train the man um the train stopped suddenly and he came out the window and he landed on the tracks and he got his head Phopped off and so he walked and then he walked back to the train station and he carried a lantern and whenever you see something rolling that looks like it has eyes and ears and nos and mouth he's probably James E. Peterson looking for his head. 9 BLACK EYES AND DIRTY DIAPERS ( Natalie Wilensky) lllal6i1ype: 929 Clever Defenses Mot:ifs: Jl250 clever verbal retorts, Z71,l 3 formulistic number Once there was a family and that night the mother and the father went down the street to get the ma11 and when they opened the mailbox and took out the newspaper the mailbox talked and said "Black eyes and dirty diapers~ , 11Black eyes and dirty diapers" and they went back up a little frightened. When when they came back up the next day they told the children to go gown and get the newspaper because they're sick of asking them and the children said "we want to play, no, no" but finally then went on down and the mailbox said, "Black eyes and dirty diapers. Black eyes and dirty diapers", And then the next day the mother said 11now look~, the other boys and gtrls have already gone down now its your turn to get the mail" and he went down and was getting ready to get the mail and the mailbox said "Black eyes and dirty diapers, Black eyes and dirty diapers" and the little boy said, "you give me a black eye and I'll give you some dirty diapers~; THE BEAVER ANO 'l'HE lj~'B,cuPINE (Alan Wilensky) Motifs1 A2493 friendship between animals, B300 helpful animal, F980 Extraordinary occurrences concerning animal, F983,0,l extraordinary quick growth of animal, F984 extraordinary protection for animal OK, Let me tell it. Once there was this beaver an um and there was a porcupine and they were very good friends, and there was this bear who came up who came up every day trying to kill trying to kill trying to kill the um beaver but one day the um when the porpupine was asleep the bear tried to pick his quills but he could not do that and he picked them alLtout but the next morning a whole new set of quills even sharper grew. And then the bear um stopped picking his quills and he started chasing after the beaver again and he decided to throw the old porcupine in the water. When he threw him in the water the beaver saved his life and from that day on they were always friends, the beaver and the porcpine, THE VENTRILIQUIST (Alan Wilensky) Motifs: D1610 magic speaking objects, E334,2 ghost haunts grave, G260 evil deeds of witch G263,4.4 witch strikes dumb, H975,0.l deity answers prayers, Q451.3 loss of speech as punishment, Q556 curse as punishment, Q556,8 curse for mockery (laughing) Well once there was this man um and he was ave, vequili, ventriliquist, andi:,.he could and he could um do words but he was not really speaking there was this there were these dummies the dummies were speaking all by themselves, There was a curse on him because I'll tell you how the curse began. Because one because one night he was he was doing some work in his cabin and he was making odd figures of witches and stuff and he stuck pins in the witches and the wttches were very mad and they come out they came out of their hiding places and they cursed him and they told him whenyyou will have to you will have to wait until these dummies speak first to speak and so he always the dummies always had to speak first but so he owned a lot of money but he was not satisfied he wanted to have his own speech back first, but but one one night he prayed to God and the God took took his wishes and the witches take took off the curse but they said the dummies shall always tell you what to do to do every time they want to and then one night he killed the dummies and then he the witches killed him and after that in ~is grave you you can hear the dummies talking. 12 THE THING AT THE END or THE BED (Scott Martin) Tale Type: 1349 numskull tale Motifs: Jl789 things thought at night to be other frightful objects, Xl20 humor of bad eyesight Well, once there was this man and um and he and every night he heard this um thing at the end of his bed (raises voice) and um he he he didn't know what it was and he wanted to know what it was so one night he took his gun and put it un- and hid it under his pillow so then um so then he decided to shoot it and he took his gun out and he shot it and before he had known it he had shot his foot. I 13 THE LEOPARD AND HIS SPOTS (Scott Martin) Tale Type: 130 Animals in company of a man Motifs: A2412.l,2 spots on leopard, B~l0 animal understands human speech Um, well once there was this um leopard and um he had known a man and he and that man was friendly and um so um every time that man took him out so he could~o hunting and bhey could go hunting and so um one time um the um when they had gone hunting one day, the um, the man had um, asked the um, leopard 11Don 1t you think it would look better if you had some spots on you7 11 So the ~o the man went and went and got some um mud on his fingers, there was some black stuff on his fingers, and so he started putting it all over the leopard. 14 GHOST OF THE BLOODY FINGERS (Joaniec, Martin) Tale Type: 929 Clever Oe'ienses Motifs: E28O buildings haunted by ghost, E281.3 ghost haunts particular room, E421.l invisable ghost, F412.l invisable spitit speaks, Jl25O clever verbal retorts, Z71,l three formulistic number, Z71,16.ll fifteen formulistic number ' OK one time there was this hotel and this man went in and asked the manager if there was a vacant room, and he said um the manager said 11Sure, number 15, but it's haunted". And the man said "Well I don't believe in all that stuff" and so he went up to the room and he was unpacking and he heard this voice say 11I am the ghost of the bloody finger 11 and so he ran he packed up again and ran out of the hoCial. And then this lady came back and said um "Is there a vacant room?'' and the manager said um "Yeah, room 15, but it's haunted" and so she said 11Oh, I don't believe in all that stuff" so she went up the the room and started unpacking and she heard this voice say 11I am the ghost of the bloody fingers" and so then um um then this hippy came in there and asks for a room and says 111s there,,a room vacant" um the manager said um the manager said 11yeah, room 15, but it's haunted" then he said the hippy said "Well, I don't believe in all that stuff" and so he went up to the room and started unpacking and then he heard this voice say 11I am the ghost of the bloody finger" and the hippy goes 11Well, there some bandaids in the bathroomi,, 15 THE FIRE (Joanie Martin) Motifs1 E420 appearance of revenant, E421.3,J ghost with glowing face, Maao accidental death OK. One time there was this man and this lady who were cooking marshmellows on a fire and so they thought they'd go to bed and they were in this cabin and so um they thought they would let the fire burn out by itself and so they had to get into their house through the chimney and then when he came down he um got burned up from the fire cause it wasn't out yet and every night when they light the fire they can see his face glittering in the fire. 16 VANISHING RIDER (Beth Coonan) Motifs1 0926 magic well, F718 extraordinary well, E332,3,3,l ghost as vanishing hitchhiker This boy was going home from college and he was taking a bus home and he was sitting by himself for a long time and then they came to another stop and this girl about his own age got on. And he thought she was real pretty and he was hoping that she would sit by him and she did, So they were riding along and they were talking and every thing as they were riding, and it got a little bit chilly. So he offered her his sweater. So ~he had his sweater on. And anyway, so her stop happened to come first and they said hhat maybe they would see each other sometime and everything and she got off, Well uh his town was about a half hour away and it wasn't until the next day he remembered that the girl had his swelter, So he thought that would be a great excuse to see her again, And so he started off on Saturday morning and he was gonna go and visit her, So he didn't exactly know where she lived but he knew the last name and he knew vaguely where it was, And it took him a while to find it and uh finally he found the house and it was she had even described the house cause she loved her house and there was this uh long driveway leading up and it was a real nice area and went and he knocked on the door and this lady came to the door and uh he said 11rssusan at homet 11 And the lady gave him a real strange look. And said "Susan?" ' '' And he sai.d "yeah, Susan Jones. I met her on the bus yesterda~11 and he said and uh he looked at her and she acted like she knew a Susan and then she said 11our Susan's been dead over ten years, She drowned in that well by the gate 11 , And he couldn't believe~,it, and 17 said "Susan So and So" and he describe.d her and she said l!"les, She died when she was siateen, 11 And uh he expressed his regrets and he walked away and he couldn't understand it, So he ambled over to the gate and he sat there and all of a sudden he looked down at the water and it was a curious well, an old fa~hioned well, and he walked over to it and for some reason he decided he'd draw up the bucket, So he turned the handle and the bucket came up and his sweater was in the bucket, 18 ROBERT BRUCE AND THE SPIDER (Jim Coonan) Motifs: B147,1,l beasts furnish omen, B489,1 helpful spider, Q81 perserverence rewarded, Z71,5 seven as formulistic number An ancestor of mine was named Robert Bruce and he had been leading his countrymen against the English, he was Scottish, and seven times he had been defeated in battle by the English. He had been driven from his country and was taking shelter on an island off of Ireland, And as he lay on his bed he noticed a spider in the rafters above him. And the spider was attempting to cross from one rafter to another on its thread. And it would swing itself on the thread and he watched and the spider missed, And the spider tried again and missed, and then he tried it a thttd, a fourth, a fifth, a sixth, and a seventh time, And so he watched and ~aited for an omen, And the spider tried again, and the spider made it, And Robert Bruce went back and he led his countrymen in the battle of Banecburn, and they were successful and his country became free, 19 A PDF transcript exists for this recording. Please contact an archivist for access. Professor John Burrison founded the Atlanta Folklore Archive Project in 1967 at Georgia State University. He trained undergraduates and graduate students enrolled in his folklore curriculum to conduct oral history interviews. Students interviewed men, women, and children of various demographics in Georgia and across the southeast on crafts, storytelling, music, religion, rural life, and traditions. As archivists, we acknowledge our role as stewards of information, which places us inaposition to choose how individuals and organizations are represented and described in our archives. We are not neutral, andbias isreflected in our descriptions, whichmay not convey the racist or offensive aspects of collection materialsaccurately.Archivists make mistakes and might use poor judgment.We often re-use language used by the former owners and creators, which provides context but also includes bias and prejudices of the time it was created.Additionally,our work to use reparative languagewhereLibrary of Congress subject termsareinaccurate and obsolete isongoing. Kenan Research Center welcomes feedback and questions regarding our archival descriptions. 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