Helen Ann Harbin interview with Mary Alice Tuck, Elsie Arizona Bailey, and Thomas Arthur Bailey (part one)

The John Burrison Georgia Folklore Archive recordings contains unedited versions of all interviews. Some material may contain descriptions of violence, offensive language, or negative stereotypes reflecting the culture or language of a particular period or place. There are instances of racist language and description, particularly in regards to African Americans. These items are presented as part of the historical record. This project is a repository for the stories, accounts, and memories of those who chose to share their experiences for educational purposes. The viewpoints expressed in this project do not necessarily represent the viewpoints of the Atlanta History Center or any of its officers, agents, employees, or volunteers. The Atlanta History Center makes no warranty as to the accuracy or completeness of any information contained in the interviews and expressly disclaims any liability therefore. If you believe you are the copyright holder of any of the content published in this collection and do not want it publicly available, please contact the Kenan Research Center at the Atlanta History Center at 404-814-4040 or reference@atlantahistorycenter.com. This is the first of a two part recording. In this part, Helen Ann Harbin interviews Mary Alice Tuck about growing up in Lawrenceville, Georgia, and working on her familys grain mill, farm, cotton gin, and sawmill. At 11:30, Tuck recalls home remedies from her childhood, including the medicinal use of kerosene and turpentine, and treating snake bites with a lit match. Then at 16:30, she shares that she completed primer (similar to kindergarten) and first grade in only one year, thereby progressing beyond her elder sister. At 18:26, Tuck outlines the process of grinding corn and wheat with various millstones and water mills, and how to harvest wheat with a specialized scythe called a grain cradle. Next, at 26:41, she describes doing laundry by boiling clothes, then removing dirt by pressing the clothes against a battling bench, a coarse plank of wood suspended between two trees. At 28:05, she recalls receiving fruit and candy as typical Christmas gifts. She then remembers candy drawings and knocking candy, popular events that the local community held to compensate children for assisting with cotton picking. At 34:18, Tuck talks about cleaning the house with a traditional scrub mop made of corn husk bristles; rotating through four flat irons to ensure they were hot enough to press clothes; and making homemade soap from waste grease, potash, and water. Then at 38:09, she shares that her mother fashioned the familys work clothes out of fertilizer bags and flour sacks. At 40:36, she explains that her father decided not to electrify the home because he was afraid of a house fire and instead they used kerosene and mantle lamps. Mary Alice Freeman Tuck (1899-1997) was born in Lawrenceville, Georgia, to Winfield Scott Freeman (1877-1961) and Roxie Ann Freeman (1878-1949). She married Claude O. Tuck (1904-1938), with whom she had one son, Darrell Claude Tuck. She worked as an agricultural laborer on her familys farm, cotton gin, grain mill, and sawmill. She then worked in a shoe shop and later became a homemaker. Elsie Arizona Zona Bailey (1904-1989) was born in Dacula, Georgia, to Isaac Ira Green Clack (1865-1944) and Isabella Norris Clack (1866-1940). She worked on her familys grain, vegetable, and tobacco farm, starting as a child. She married Thomas Tom Arthur Bailey (1898-1980), who was born in Dacula, Georgia, to Robert Anderson Bailey (1864-1940) and Josephine Gabriella Josie Bailey (1862-1936). He also worked on his familys farm from an early age, and later enlisted as a private in the United States Army during World War I. Additional biographical information has not been determined. Folklore JOO Helen Ann Harbin 5333 Campbell ton Road S. W. Atlanta, Georgia, 30331 October 27, 1973 turned out to be a day which provided a a new experience for me and my friend, David Keller. I must admit that I was q11ite nervous and excited about this project, Not knowing how to contE1ct the elde~ly couple wl,,e I wished to meet, excent through their great nephew, Bob Bailey, we drove to r,.awrenceville, r,eor gia in hopes to cqtch them at home. Hnfortunately, the couole had taken ill with the flu and were not feeling up to having comoany, 'Ibey said that we s 1,ould come back another day, We were someJhat disappointed after being so tense and anticipating anything. We drove on down the country road that we were on. It was a lovely day and the changing leaves made all of the country a bit special. '!bere is some beautiful land in Lawrenceville. We oassed an old 'lill that seemed to be in fairly gootl condition and stopped to turn around and go back and check it out, '!bat is when we noticed that the oolice were following us. We decided that we would have them pull over so we could ask the'1 a few nuestons rather than have them ao tre same to us. 'The policenan did not really know nuch about the mill, but the a6tion of the cars pulling over off the road attracted the attention of a young C'l.an, Terry Ter'1er, who proceded to fine! out what was going on in front of his home, Later, I w'll tell you why he was a bit nervous. We made a contact. He informed us that one, Mrs. ~<ary Alice Freeman Tuck knew about the nlll, Free:ian s J''ill, and told us that she was a fine woman to talk with, After out conversation with '"rs. Tuck, Terry showee David and I all around the mill and explained all the functions. 'Ihe mill was built in 1"<37. It turned ,-ut that Terry had been running the 'lill unt'l recerltly when vandals destroyed the oart of the da'l that fed the water to the wheel. Mr~. Tuck gives a description of the 'lill race in the story of her grandfather catching fish. '!he mill and 'l'e rry were all R_ui te interesing and his tour helped David and I to get a better understanding and relate better to parts of the converBat ion with Yrs. 'Tu.ck. }Frs. Tuck was busy at work making crates with her brother, J,r. Freeman and her son, Daryl Tuck, when we entered the workshon. 'Their workshop is located behind f-'rs. Tuck s home, Alcovy Road, Route 2, Lawrenceville, Georgia. 1[;,awrenceville is located in Gwitette,County, Georgia. '!he events of Frs, Free0an Tuck s life that she shared with us see'led to indicate that she has always been a hard working lady. 'Terry Terner, the '1an who directed us tb her said that the People \who know / .. }''.rs. Tuck say that she ran still outwoFk any two men. The conversation that we had with !''rs. Tuck ended because the family absolutely,had, ,to get back to work. We had just dropped in on them and I felt that )rs. Tuck was a oolite woman to take her time td talk with us as long as she did. T felt that it was some___wha t of a shame that our talk had to end so abruotly because A.lice Tuck ha1 just begun to let her ,,,nJ wander back to her early life and things that she had not thought of in years. T believe that she could have really opened uo in a little "'!ore th1e, and oerhans she will yet. Fost of the rememberences that '1rs. Tuck did exoress were work oriented. She had known hard times. All i_n all though, ''rs. Tuck stated that she orefered the old t1me c!.ays and ways to today. She also PXoressed !"ear for the younger genell"ations. I left ''rs. Tuel{ sayin9 that I would call her later and if she is not too busy she will talk with ""e again. She also said that she would try to remember some of the thinp;s that J had asked her ab'.lut. I a11 sure that it is hard to re'Tlember thinr,s not thought of for many years right off the bat. JVrs. Tuck made a state"ent something to the effect that once you start thin!i;;ing about some thing, why you can re'llembe r alo ts. I can relate to this s ta termen1t; thr'ough my experiences. that day. After I returnee home I thought of 0;any questi.ons that I wish I had of asked her in resoonse to some of the things that she did tell "'18, I was nervous, not so much about meeting new oeople as 1 I was nervous about that damn taoe recorder. Because it was the first ti"'le that I have done any collecting work of this tyoe with a recorder,. I felt quite nervous and clumL,sy. I laugh now because I had expressed a bit of anxiety as to whether 'TlY infor~ant (whoever) would be shy and nervous being recorded. I was a perfect exa"'lple of this description, shy and nervous, My biggest criticism of e1yself is total lack of organization, TTpon my first listening of the tape I realizc;d that I jue1ped from one subject to another with out alot of related thought. I connect the incohesiveness of my line of quest'onin.~... to tte fact that I ~ - was 1ne~perienced and unsure of how to organize c1yself. I lll:id pick up some tips that I feel will help me if future gathering, however something that I consider to be a oroble7 is that there can not be strict organization when talking with a nerson for the very first time and lrnowinsr absolutely nothing of their repertory. I felt resoonsible to lead t'1e conversation onward after a pause so that I found "lyself trying to th 1.nk of sornetl:iii.ng else to aelk her rather than listening fully to what whe was saying. 'The exoeriences of this day srould helo "le to do better in rny next tries of gathering and recording folklore. I feel that Mrs. Tuck did convey some interesting infor'lation esoecially concerning the ~ames she and her friends played. I also found the talk about house cleaning and the tools that they used to be interesting, Alice '1entioned that one of her cleaning task as a ehild was to sweep the yard, As we were leaving the yard I noticed that all the dirt arounp the house was raked very neatly, I supoose that this is still one of her household chores. Wow I wiuld like for you to "Set the brief part that I l<now of Mrs. Mary Alice FreeCBn Tuck. Helen Ann Yeah, it's going now. I guess it was turned off. Alice Kn')Ck that dog off there. Get down fro'D there, Missy, Missy, c,:e t down from there, you, Helen A'nn Let~ see how loud this is, if it will be loud enough. Okay. Just to s tat,t with, you know, I need your name, What is ynur ' name?' Alice ,ii;lice 'Pt,ick, uh ,rou want rcy first, uh, first na11e for I ever married? Helen Ann That will be okay, and the rest of it. Al ice Alice Freeman, borned in 18 and 99 and uh, down at Tripple Mill. I was a small girl, we moved off here behind the church, Helen Ann uh huh Alice Then I started to :school up there, and the next year after I moved over t 1 here and we bought a place down here, bought the mill down here, my daddy bought this mill down here and we moved right down here in this little house beside the bridge. And we farmed and we Pun the "'lill and we run a cotton gin and I helped with ii,11 of it. Run a saw mil], and I helped with that, Now this is going to be my life new, not somebody elses. Helen Ann That is what I want. Alice He can tell you his. {oointing to hep brother/ Helen D,'nn He's a different story. Aili ce /\.nd uh, then in years to go later on I lived in uh, I can't tell ya, in uh, in 19 and 7, 19 and 37, I got married. Lived up here at Lawrenceville then, and then rry husband, we, we fa, we didn't farm but we gathered crons and we worked on~ farm as long as he lived. Thats 11y son going [Eoints, to her son, Daryl TUckJ Helen Anm uh huh Alice And then, uh, he was born in 19 and 38 and in three, uh, he was five weeks old and lilly bps band got ki/d :ed in a county truc\c. And me and him we 1 ve been liv, trying to make a living for ! him every sinse, best way I could and IHJe had it rough. That's the reason I said I didn1 t want to tell you how V-ough it had been. But anyway, wh~n I got uh, we just uh, lived from pla6e to ".llace till I got hrn uh, schooled. Got him through college, then going off to school , Then he went off to c allege, two years, wasn I t it Dar"l? Daryl Tuck One year. Alice One year. Daryl yeah. Alice Then he c,;ot "'arried, And he started uh,lliving up here in this house whe,-,e we re s.t now. I had bought me two places. This olace and one in Laweencevllle. I worked a shoeshop all the time he was amall and going to school to cnake a living to keep him going. And then, uh, when he ;;;ot '"arried they cnoved up here and I lived down uh, w~th cny paooy till he passed away, and then I coved uo here. And I've been here er' since. And he 11.oved off and then he came, me and him rspeaking of her brother, >1r,Fr,"mc1n; started build, working ih: this shop right here and weve been a little better for him. 1 111 let hici tell you what all he's done since then, because see, we've had the .,,ost good since then and we re building and now he can start there and I'll tell ya Helen Ann [rrs. Tuck was >1ow speaking about her son, Daryl. Strn was ready to nass the bu~k on and let someone else talk.] We 11, okay, let "'6 ask you just a few things, like can you tell me so~ethng like socne cu, you know uh, cu,.,ealls you used for lH:e cureing, medici>1e, or courting custo~s? Something like this; the g;ar,es you olayed as a chtldZ Alice Well, we didn't, we just had a little ole ball, hide n' seek, such stuff as that when I was coming uo, cause you know thats been a long ti."le age. We didn 1 t have to know all these oac"es that they know now. Helen Ann uh huh Alice Abd wed get out and lay ball, soft, ole softball with an ole soft ball and uh, I used to olay bingo when I was uh, younrer and such stuff as that, but uh, we didn't have many games to clay like they do, didnt have big balls, you know like now, Helen Ann Yeah. Ali.ce I've e;ot uh, four sisters and two brothers. Helen A'nn Vid you, did you have any superstitions or anythlng about ghosts or soooks, of' did your oarents or '""aybe your rrandoarents? Alice No Helen Ann Do you remember anything they used to say? Alice No, we dldn t believe in that. I believe in fo11Jtune telling . but he don 1 t , but I do. !!"rs. Tuck is referin,;:, to her brother;] Helen Ann What tyce of fortune telling ? Alice ,Tust any klnd that you can get the'l. to tell you anything. Helen Ann Do you go to then? Alice No, I, Jbout three ti.mes, but he didn 1 t w~nt me to. /_!:.gain, the reference is directed toward her broyher:J um hum, Helen Ann But you 1d like to? Alice Yeah, I guess, um hum. Helen Ann Do you re"1eC1ber, .,,aybe, any stories: or legends of heroes or things like th is? l'erhacs that someone told you when you were _a girl, Jokes, ~aybe, that you used to tell each other? L:l'i.t this ooint ~,rrs. 'l'\rnk gave a look that indicated to '18 that Alice Well, we Helen Ann Just, you know, if these were the jo1{es that wer0 circulating them, ari.d were told,you 1{now, wed like to know about t 11em because uh, older traditions and ways of life are o:ettng awdy from us with all ~hese, .. Alice Yes; it sure io, I's comino: uo, Helen Ann .itaint, Its just these day and time ain't like when What do you feel about that? Alice Ah, honey, ,ht t, it terrifies 1'18. I c8n1 t hardly take it. rt just uosets '18 cause I just c1nn 1 t see how the young foll('s are going to make it now. I really don 1 t, David Do you like the old way of life better? Alice Yes honew, I it better, Peooles quit Helen Ann uh huh really did. It was all rough but I really liked We didn't have as much ~rouble then as we do now, loving each other like they used to. Alice Peooles quif co,,,resoondin,o: with e~,ch ot'1er like they used to end, antow, it seems to "18. like that the, this last generation, :r. don't know how they are i!oin;,: to oet through. "aybe t 11ey do, I donh.t", I can 1 t see that to ss11e sy life bec.c,use I never ,-ns rai9ed to none of it, My, we didn't, our daddy d 1 dn1 t let us run about ,uch and carry on J ike they do now, and our chilren just ~o and go and go and ttey don 1 t ~now where to stoo at it donft look like, So, I just, yes, in a way, I like the old tl~e better ~ause there wadnt near as ~uch trouble. Belen Ann What are so rre of your favorite things you_J'er>ier,ber? [Mrs. Tuck is standing and figit,.ng aroundd Alice We could sit down at home and all that night we could sit down there at home and Helen Ann Do you want to sit down? Alice No mam, just talk and have a good ti11e and nobody 1d don 1 t do that no mo re, They got too 0mch other stuff to enter ta inmen t. It 1 s television and its everything else and they get to far off country and its just talHrn oleasure 0f of life in a l t of ways to 1e. Helen Arm uh huh Alice i1.nd uh, ~he 1{lnd of droos down in rrod to a sort of '"elancholy Helen Ann Well, we were oing to talk ab0ut some bri~hter th'ngs. Can you reme::t1ber any of those j0k0s? Alice -.._ ~aurrh ter) Helen Ann You just go on and tell us Alice Lah, they're not wo>cth telling, uh Helen Ann Oh, we 1 ll hear them and deciae. Alice I can t remember too ,any of them now. I would if we got to talking about um but 1 just can!t get uin I.n r1y 1ind. Helen Ann Daryl, do you know some she tells? Daryl Wo.,, Helen Ann That would refresh her "emory? Any preacher 15:al,-,oreacher jokes, snmet1'nc,; like that; Fool stori.es'/ Alice Never d.id thi_nr; too much about stories. Never djd like reading "1Uch. That was one. thing I didn't , slt down and read. I didnt, you know, pet 0 u6h out of stories. Helen Ann You didn't csoecially like for peoole to tell you tales or things like that'? Alice ~ot particularly, well, sometl~es by different oeople, but Helen Ann Yeah David What about some home remedies? Alice We doctored the old remedi_e-s and I do now, People now when anythin:,; gets wrong with um they tear out to the Doctor. ,J:Ieleo., Ann l}augqj Allee Past as they can go, When we got a cut of' got ~nything, without if, uh, it wadn 1 t serious brea or something, my mamma just doctored me the old t,_-,e way, Kerosine, terpenti.ne and stuff like that. And that's way I go rlght ~~w. Whenever t anything gets wr&ng with me, I just get my old remedy out add I just go to doctoring. And uh, Daryl Maybe they'd be interested in that story about grandpaw getting snake bit driving fish down the ~ill race. Helen Ann Sure, tell us about it, Alice Well, we was uo the dam down the~e where we was running the rnill, we was up' t da"!, why, the fish ud cor-ie down to the dam down there and 0 oanpy1 d wait till 'bout ti'l1e he thought they uz corning down and then he 1 d uh, j;hsyd uh, get down in the race coming down to the wheel, He 1 d go up there then and cut the water off, ~ut the gate in and they couldn't go back, then he 1 d take off his shoes, roll un h!s britches, and he'd get there and he 1 d come down catchinv them with his hah~s. In that, E;ee, the water 1d run out till it d just be thirn , uh, low water , he'd ,,,;o along there grabbing the best fish out of the riv, out of the dam. He ccne down there one day and qn ole SJ!lake popped hirr2 on the leg, on the foot, th, on th<, ankle ri.;.ht ?ver thereGhe stoooed an? oointed t? he: ankleJ and uh, we d:.dn' t know what we was g,1ng to do w ,t'"l it. But we see'd the Doctor go over to the, over the road just a little whilG: before, went o,;er to see a oatient over there. It was when Doctors went out, yc-,u mow, all countrying Doctors, So, he said, get out there and stoo that Eoctor quick. We had hJ.s leg bent uo therev_rrs. Tuck '"lade motions, that indiccited. she was talking about something like a i:omp,reas on the ankle::) and then you didn't have no way of going anywhere e]l'.cept on uh, wagon or buggy or some fu ing or another. Some few had autor,,obiles, but not 11any. So we p:ot out there anrl fla,a:c-ed him down. -oaooas just havi.ng a f' t wi tt;i that foot. He,_ca:;:,e ::1 down there and he tnld hi'"", shnwed h~m where .is at, be [the Doctor...J just took out his kn:Lfe s.nd snli t 11is foot two ways. Then ooure d something or nc-,ther over it, struck a match to it_, Hit just blazed un and burnt li..ke eve,:,ything. That k 'lled, that's the way Dr, that Doctor just snake bite. Helen Ann That took c0re of it. Alice That took care of it. Right there, yes-_sir-ree. It didn 1 t .feel good I dont think. Helen Ann Probabley- not, Alice From the expression of his face and all, s.11 but he, that 1s the way he doct, got it doctored, Helen Ann Did you like riddles? Alice Not too much, I don't go "luch for such thinR"s, Helen Ann But you can I t thi.. ng of any jokes? Right away? 'Ibey csn be nasty, they can be a nyth' ng .:.1,. Alice ~aughea) Helen i\nn If you re too shy to tell them, I could j1Jst leave this and not let ~e hear it till later. J:lice 7 l!,augh ter..J Your sorta tricky. Helen Ann I j~at want you to tell me how it was. Did you, what about songs? Do you remember any s,,ngs? Ballads? Alice Oh, oh yeah, we did ,,Jot of s ingl.ng. Helen Ann Could y0u sing some sohgs? !11lice uh uh, not nie now, uh uh ~auph te~ Helen 11:nn Do, did you play a acusical lnstur"1ent, like the banjo? Alice Nooe, Helen Ann No? Alice I never did, never could have it i_n music. A.11 my sisters, or 7ost of, na,rt of um can olay, but I never could. He is, be is, that 1s my brother, and he, he nlays music. He plays in a band all t'1e ti 7.e. Helen Ann ~aybe hed play a tune. (At this o6int the brother looked as though he was ready to to~back to work. During the recording he and "Trs, Tuck I s son, Daryl were hang' ng around wait: ng for us to finish. They were ver:y busy oeoole;-i ?' Alice He, they can tell you better stories than I can. ~Hnes old timey and his, there's is new ones. Helen Ann Well, thats, I want the old t~ey ones, Yov.' re the lady I was pointed to. :\15.ce Tnat s what I want, r Who send you, her, my dau.g hter in law down there? \!:'.f~s. Tuck I s son and da\H,h ter in law 1 i ve down a long drive in front of Vrs. Tuck's house:) Helen Ann uh huh and uh, but who se, Harry, Terry Alice Terry, uh hum Helen Ann He satd you were just the finest lady and it would be worth me tali,' nr:", to you. Alice I dont know what he thought, thinks abouth that. Helen Ahn That s what he said, He sent me here. Ali.. CB He had a 0re tty good duh thing to tell you didn't he? Helen Ann He didn 1 t. Alice Bout what ha,nened to hi:11 la, a wee!{ or two ago? Helen Ann tlh uh, he didn't tell me. Alice Had a 11.ttle excit'ng to me, but . , I think it was in a way to him, Alot of fun. UJhe laur,:hs and gives a strange little look to her brother;:] Helen Ann What was that, was that a secret? Yr. ftce,g, M0n You better not tell that. Helen _pn Okay./ r;aughter, I later found out that the excitement that hanpenl;ato Terry Terner was that his home had been broken in-:-) Alice '!hey don t want that told. Helen Ann Alright, Alice (;auSt:l ~ Helen Ahn What was life lilze when you were growing up? Ali.Ce Huh? Helen Ann What was 1 ife 1 ike when you we re gl'.'OW ing up? Did you go to school? (j; was so nervous at the beginning that I had failed to reali;;,e that she m.entioned that she went to school:) Alice Oh yes, I went to school. We walked to school back ards and forth, why bout three and a half miles and I didn 1 t even, you put a child out to waltc in the winter ti'rle, ,in the ice and snow now and see what they'd say. Daryl's got a little girl down there can t hardly walk up here to bring hi~ nething. Daryl Tell them bout ~aking two grades in one year. Alice 'Ihats first year I w~nt to school. First year I got ready to go to school I had a sister that1 d already went two years. She was older than "le, just two years older, but she'd done went to school two years for I got to go. Ahd I started school in a little old wooden schoolhouse out, up here where the cell!le-/'-tlrys at now and, at the church. Helen Ann !Th hum Alice And when I started school, why, the, we had then what ya call a little ole orimer. And then you went from the orimer to the first grade and I finished that primer before the,you know then you just had th, then schools just uh, three "lonths in the, six months in the year, three in the winter time and three in the summer time. Helen Ann TTh huh Alice And I sta,ed to school, duh, I made mw primer in three uh, in uh, the first three months ahd the next three months I wtlnt through the, in first grade with her, why'a, when we got/that term was ready to get out of, I was ahead of' her. Helen Ann Oh. Alice She never did enjoy going to school anymore. HelenAnn cause you beat hsr, Primer, is that like kindergarten? Alice Something sort of like kindergar, kinnegarden now, um hum, Just a 1ittle reading in it. and uh, Helen Ann Oh, it was a book? Alice Yeah, well we studied a little book, yeah, we had a little primer book and I did have ~tne but I don t know what'I what with it now. Helen Ann TTm hum I ' Alice But uh, I Made the'rl two p;radAs in one year. Ready frir the second grade time she was, or may~e before~ Helen Ann Well, uh, ca, tell me something about the mill. ,/(lice Well.I Helen Ann What did you do with the Al ice 1,,,;a,I, We ground corn meal, we ground uh, corn and cnade, y;;.,/ and he grinds there, down there now, fixing to, ain't grou.1~ none yet, but he grind down there m w, ancl: uh, (_!he reference to him concerns her brother? we had a gin down there. We ground when we uh, didn't tf.ve no 9rinding to dri, and the fall of the year come and cotton oicl-cing time, why, we ginned all the, the gin was built on the side of the mill down there then, We'd gin down there sometimes all ni:,;ht long, Some of us run one, one shift, and the other oned run the other one and we just Belen Ann was that y,ur fam-lly? Alice 'Ihat was MY family. 'That was daddy, and, and uh G:.elephdne rings) Alice S.o uh, then tha, my dacldy put a saw mill down there and they also sawed down there at that '1.ill with that water and that wheel. Just old timey way. Helen Ann Um hum Ali.c.e And uh, hit wadn I t near the nJce mill it is now, Hit was, hits the same building, but its been fixed up alot and then it was, we had one wheat roc.k and one corn rock, Now they don't hsve a wheat rocl<, they just done with it and have two c'o)l'n ro'Cks now. Helen Ann What is that, wheat rock? Alice 'Iha t s to gri, that s to ,grind your flour; with, and we d gr::.nd .!:'lour and mal<e our own bread out of it. '!be wheat that we raised out in the fields. David Were the rocks different textures? Why d I you call them wheat rocks and Alice Uh huh, the one runs on the other one- and sits down the a, other one runs around it like th is, \]11rs. Tuck placed her hands with the palms toward each other and rubred the top hand around and around. One can hear the rubbing noise on the tane;'j' And it, course you have a boulter for wheat, you have a boulter that bolted, it seoarates what 1 s called the un, flour and the uh, seconds. '!he seconds was, you could eat them, they just looked dark. But flours are soft, good as any flour, and uh, corn, but now they just done away with all that there stuff and just got corn, just grind corn, but it -nakes good meal,that.water ground corn does. Helen Ann Did your daddy built the 11111? Alice No, he bought it. Helen Ann He bought it. Alice Uh huh, He and his daddy bought it together_, and uh, his daddy was a running it then all the time till he had a stroke and then Daryl, UQi pappy just took it over and he kept it till uh, well he l(ept the land, he didn t keen the "11-11. He sold the 11ill. I can t tell you i9 what year he sold it, but he sold the 11ill uh, a lonp; time l'.)efore he died. ~'r. t'harr, bought that niill and when he got it, Jl,'r. Newt Pharr, he uh, started repairing it and built that big dam up there . When we was runn inG>: it for a long time we just had a little oil.e wooden dam across the river up there. But then when he bought it he put that big ole rock da11 up there and he, they, its just been handed on down, handed on down to oeoPle that had money to do with, till they've uh, really got it fixed uo in good shaoe now, but it wadn1 t that good when we was tending to it. I could grln~ meal. David I bet you could make a 11ean loaf of bread couldn't you? \irs. !fuck s:1akes her head ye0 David Oh Helen Ann Do you still 11ake your own bread? Alice And uh, we, we've ground the 70 st when we had any wheat as lcng as it lasted. We ground '>Ur own corn, uh, our own bread, both cornbread and flour. We had our living at home. fuat 1 s bout all we had one then till that, cause you didn 1 t have alot of '.lloney then like you have now. We'd raise, plant our wheat in the fall, raise our, i t 1 d grow all year and then in the sucnme'jrtime, ah; spring, we cut that wheat with a cradle, My dad would. 'Then we didn t have no combines. Ffe 1 d go along and cut it with a crqdle and wed go along behint him and pick it up a'1d tie in in bundles and have it thrashed. Helen Ann What is a cradle'? A cycle like thing? Alice This old thing that you take in your hand like 1at and come sweeoing it around,_ The sweep. Helen Ann I,augh Alice And he, d sweep off a handful like that, co me around and sweep one down and he I d rake it down the thing and lay it down on the ground, come around with him another one. Bout two of us follow along behing h,1''11 and tie it up in bundles. Then we had to stand it up and tet it dry and get ready for the thrash to come. rt come round and thrash it then and we 1d put in in sacks. Ya 1ll just ought to lived in that day. Helen .A.nn I would like to have. Al tee Yeah, you really ought to lived in that d~y. Helen Ann I really wourod have, slower ~1rs. Tuck's brother said sometb'ng in the background7\ Alir,e Hub? 1vrr. Freeman They I d go c ra z y. Belen Ann Wt I d 'i crazy? Alice Yeah, you would. That's what I fiaure. J figure if oeo"lle got back to that they'd just loose their "lind cause[s~ lrn a war time down there, the first war, we had to eat cornbread for breakfast. You didn 1 t have 1uc;h flour, Everything was rationed. You could just get so "1Uch, and my dag had a family of about seven and hit took a right S"lart for us to eat, to ' live on, We raised all our hogs, Had our meat at home, had chickens and cows, had our milM cows n churned our own butter and all that stuff, We had everything at home but just a little bit. Mam'11a, she d save all the eggs she could , n all the butter she could and sell to the stores to buy sugar n stuff we just had to have. Helen Ann Uh hun, The things you couldn 1 t grow. Alice That's right. Helen Ann Could you, could you give "le a descriotion of your house that you lived in when y0u were a little girl? Al:ice Yes, we lived in that little ole thing sitting right down yonder, C.1Vfrs, Tuck pointed down the hill but the house was not visible fro"l the workshop:::\ It then, right down the hill down yonder. Did you come up the road? From the wh- Yeah, you did to come by 'l'errys. Well, that first little house you co'.!le to down here side the road, on the side the road there. Hits been, part it's torn down now and alot of extra stuff done around there, but when we 01oved over there it was just a little ole uh, about uh, four, little ole four room house. And uh, it wadnt a bit better, it wadn 1 t H.S good it tis nriw, but we keot adding to it, daddy,had to keep adding~t6~ttcbe~~ cause his family keot coming along, we uh, had to have a little <>Jore sleeoing roo,"1 and we built two extra rooms to it back there and a little hall way and uh, it was just a fairly old house. Course I've heared alot of preachers say they'd sit in their house and look down through the, chickens waHt around under the house, we could too. Yeah, we didn't have all these rugs that they have how, We'd look down under and see chickens wa~king around down under there. Helen Ann @_igo;le) Alice And uh, as we got a little better off and things began to get a little better, we kindly fixed it up some and thats where I lived, uh, that's where we lived tlll nappa died ynd then they sold th.e place then. There come.. , s Torry now, /'I'erry Tarner, the young man who inforned us that Mrs. Tuck knew 'a.bout the 1 mill came up to her house and he offered to show David and I around the mill when we were finished talking, We gladly acceoted~] and uh, some t"an from Atlanta bous,;ht it, but)' ()rs, 'fuel{ began fidr:Hihg with the "'icrophone plug and I had to check to "lake sure it was still olugged up:} Helen Ann Is that in there? Yeah, Alice 'That, that s a blessed ole home down there. I love to just go back down there and look at it sitti0g down there, I just love it to deqth. Helen Ann Would you like to, could I take a picture of that, that house? fi really wanted J'frs. Tuck to walk down there with 110 but I sensed a feeling that the men were ready to go to work and~ Mrs. Tuck was a oart of their work, so, I asked for a photo.\ Alice Well, you could, on the outside you can now, but the man that owns it lives in Atlanta, Now, you might find him down there this afternoon. If you did, why, they'd let you take it on the inside, course the kitchen part that we lived in has been tore down an uh, the oorch out there where we had for a kitchen. Helen Ann F~huh. Allee There wadn 1 t no electricity down there and still ain't, nothing but a s ortng to tote water fro"' way down there on the side the branch. We toted water from that branch down there to do all our house stuff with and uh we washed down there beside the branch, and uh, old washtubs and this battling banch that you batteled with a stick. Helen Ann A battling bancg? Alice Yep. Helen Ann What 1 s that? Alice 'That was a 1 ike this. big ole th icli niece or wood out be tween two trees Helen Ann TTh huh Alice It was about as wide, about that wide, maybe that wide. Helen Ann About Ii'. foot. fingers apart Alice L'!he final length that she held her two index was aooroxima tely a foot0 We'd soak our clothes in that soaoy water The'l1 that was so uh, di.rty and all. We 1d take um out and lay um over on that and had one of these here sticks cut off sorta 1 ike an ax handle, We'd stand there and we 1 d battle then clothes and turn them over and battle um the other way and them out um back in there and wash um again, :":Put um in a wash pot and boil um, Make a fire around that washoot and boll our clothes in that wash oot. Helen Ann Din hum Alice You see I 1 ve come up in the olden times. Helen !\,nn And you said you didn 1 t remember any, but your remembering more and more. Alice /. Oh yeah, (LJ when you 7 et of al~t of th'nga; but Helen Ann Hh huh Alice studying about it, uh, you can think '!he'l'J ain't good th1ngs to tell folks, Helen Ann Yes they are, they, I, yes it is. '!hat s the way, you lived. Alice '!hat1 s the way we came up. Really it Helen Ann 'Those th'ngs are good to me. David What was the biggest t''!'Je of the year? Alice Huh? David What was the biggest ti me of the year? Alice Oh, Christmas of course and you know what we got for Christmas? Helen Ann What? Allee Apple and a orange and two or three st<i,cks of stick candy was what we did generally always get for Christmas because it pushed us to live, Helen Ann Fm huh Alice And uh, that was a good Cl::!ristmas t-, us, We enjoyed that alot more n children do what they get now because they get more everyday that they go to the store than we did at Christ<nas time. And we never looked for no "loney too, like oemple do now. If we had a hickle. anytime, take to school for anything it had to be a necessity and there just 1,11adn 1 t no "loney to be had. David Really didn't need it though did you? Alice Well, np, there wadn(t too much to buy. No, Helen Ann How did you celebrate Christ"lan? How did your family observe? Alice We always, uh, they always 11h, fixed up a little sack with an apple, bout one orange n some candy and Maybe two or three other little ole things, just little things you can get. And I tell you ohe thing, wed always, the way we uh had our most fun, we have candydrawings and all the young folks ud meet at somebody's house and PaPpa, whoever~. the "lan of the house, he could buy about two or three boxes of ole, you know, this ole box stick candy and then you couid but it for about thirty-five or forty cents a box and it had a lots of i'IJ in it and wed all uh, when they gn t the c 2,ndy and eve ry,thing ready, why, they sit the candy in there in, maybe i.n the 1{i tchen, didn t have but one room that had l".rO fireolace to it n have to have a fire if it was in the winter time, have to have a fire in the kitchen, in the cook stove. We cooked wi. th wood, wc,od stove, and uh, somebody go off there and they'd have the candy and then they'd have numbers drawed on pieces of oaoer, pasteboard, little long pieces of pasteboard and it'd have a number on it and them'd all be turned over on the table and we go in thePe, two at a time, Arouple go in tor:ether, and each one of theoi co:e t to turn uo one of theoi little ;ieces of Pasteboard and Kee what the number on there and whatevers number on there you got that many sticks of candy. Helen A.nn Oh, so you wanted the bip;gest number. Alice And uh, course everybody 1 d just keep their candy or eat .. along on it n keep the most of it n see who won theorize, who got the most candy. Sometime wed, they'd out two or three pieces little short stick in a rag, oin it up to the top of the wall, They'd blindfold us then, when they carried us in there, put a blindfold on us an uh, ~ive us a little ole stick. Helen A.nn Uh huh Alice And we 1 d hit at that olece of candy and if we knocked it down we got us a stick and if we d idn~ t we d idn I t get anything, And you get about three licks at a time, uh, three licks at a trip~ That 1 s what we call knocking candy. Helen Ann Knocl<:ing candy, ~ide tw~ Alice We'd have a cotton pickin if somebody in the settle1ent go;j:; behind with their cottonoicking, we d give a cotton___,pi.cking and we'd all get together, all the""! thats gonna co'Tle to the candydrawing, get their sack and come over er, and wed ptck cotton half a day, all strung out over the field, just all, everybody that would come and then they 1 s envited back to that e-andydrawing that night and we d draw candy to pay for that co ttonpicking. Helen Ann The work before the play. Altce That s right. David How TJany Deonle were in the settle'Y!ent? Alice Well, there wadn t near as "lany as it ls no"J '!hey was scattered. But they was, uh, fa, you knciw, families had more; children than they do now and all the housed that we knew around here, that we went to school and all with, why, they all had two or three chilren, mayhe so"'e of 'um four and five and when you invited uh, a fa""l1-ly, why, you sot a good bit, and I'm telling you11 we have o-\.cked as hL;,;h as two hail of cotton ih a half a day. David Really? Alice Yes! '[ake two to tote the cotton up fast as we d picked it, and they had to tote it in a old wagon or something and carry it to the house and we have, wed, but, that was a lot of fun. Just- When you didn 1 t have nothing else to do young folks just get together. '!hey enjoyed oicking, that 1 s all they knowed to do then and we just enjoyed it. David :Th huh Helen Ann And then wh what would you do aftell' you picked the cotton:,> /\.lice Well, everybody1 d go home and eatt:3) their suPoer and get dressed and then cor1e back and have that candydrawing that night. JvTy mother and daddy went off one tlme to a sociation, you know what thi_ng tha \ they have at the, for these meetings, you know the oeoole havsocation, they still do that, but not, we had not like they had then. ~ut they went off one day to asociation and we was wav behind with cotton and we ask um to let us have a cottonoicking that evening. And they said, we 11 if you want to. So, we just run around the old se ttlemait and got up a-cottonoicking after they went off fer that after - noon, and we picked a hail and a half of cotton that eventng. \Laughter) Ahd they didn 1 t get home till neQf'ly sundown and ~here we was, had the cotton oicked and ready f,,r our candydrawing and ,ny dad didn 1 t have no way a go, but on horse and buggy. Hitch your horse to a buggy and tear out, but he jumped back in that buggy and he tore out to town and got our candy for us to have that candydrawing that night. Helen Ann You had done, you had Dicked the cotton. Alice we got the cotton picked, that's right, David Well, d1.d you have a Christmas bree at Christmas? Alice No, wadn 1 t no such a thing a a Christmas tree, honey, nobody didn 1 t 1-rnow what a Christmas tree rceant then, /'Belen Ann t5augh3) J Alice l}augh~ No, Helen Ann Did you sing, did y,,u sing any caroles? Christmas Caroles? Alice No, didn't know any. uh uh, cause there wadn 1 t nobody, just on duh, our daddys and mothers and they'd come up a little harder than we had, I recon and they, they just wasn't no Christman caroles of nothing like that to sing, Helen Ann Um hum 11/hat would just a, what would, an an ordinary week day, what would you do like that, after you got out of school, what would you do? Al i.ce Oh, Lord, we'd, didnt have to go to the field, we swept yards and we worked a round the house and , and then peep le d idn I t have vacuum cleaners to clean the h ,use with . l!'hey scrubbed then with wbat we called a scrub mop, That was a o&(i'ce of wood bout uh, six i.nche s long and bout four fee,t, uh, four . , "> inches across, like, bout lilce that,C/folc/5 1nd.l/;.f-+triqers fu-fv;_,.v ,nc."-1!'5J bout, come out to bout here. It had hole bored in it, sorta angleing like and you'd go to the barn and get shucks uh, off the corn, put them down in hot water and ~et them soft, (s) squeeze uo all of um you could,as much as you could ~et in that hole and thats what we scrubbed our floor with, We didn t have nothin~ like ~ons and thing, then, Hele.n ~nn What did you call, what was the name of that, the corn shucks and eve ryth ino:? II.lice Ah, scrub mop. Helen Ann Scrub mop. Alice To (t) scrub our floor with. We took care of that scrub mop; then, like people takes care of their mops to mop the h,use with now,, But we took at moo out and dried it and brought it back in the shelter. There wadn 1 t no floors that had no rugs or nothing on em. You had naked floors, Just wooden floors and natully, they got muddy and nasty too, and they had to be scrubbed and we, we, we had al 1 that to d,, and washing and ironing and, Helen A.nn How did you iron? AlicP. We had an ole plank with a piece of quilt tacked over it. We'd set:: it uo on cha:i::i's, heat out ole, our iron, People called 1 um black irons or ole black irons down in front of the fire and get em _good and hot. We had our rag fixed to put around that hannel,Lhandle)take it up thar an-, clean the dust off it and iron your clothes and that un 1 d get cold and you 1d have about four and you reach down and get you a hot un and set that un back sown there and hit 1 d heat again. David That's whtle you were using the other one? Helen Ann Yeah. Alice TJm huh. David Did you have to make your own soap or buy it? Alice Yep, we c:take most of our soap. We saved all our old scrap grease and stuff, buy pot ash and "Iy mamma 1 d make soap, She 1 d make us a pot full at the time and that ud last about two or three ,non ths. Helen Ann How do you make soap? How did she ~ake it? Alice Well, you take uh, one of these ole uh, ir0n black wash oots and you put a little bit of water, bout two cups full of water down in the hot tom and you oour all that waste grease in there and let it begirn to o:et hot and then ynu get some uh, whats called pot ash now. You know you can but thts ,Jhat they call lye at stores now, fer different things. Well, we'd take about uh, two cans of that and cut it and pour it over in the pot 1 n finish filling it full of water then and boil it till it :nad!e thick stuff and why uh, whenever it got thick you dipped it and put in some kind of vessel, but you'd have uh, you couldn't put it in tin cause it 1 d eat up that tin. You had to out it in jugs, not jugs but, uh old churns and things like that. David Ma<le out of wood? Alice Well, that wood un was good. these ole regular ole churns, use to churn their milk in. David TTh huh Alice We didn't have, we just had you know, ole uh, like folks And uh, we 1 d, she'd oip that up and oour it in then, and when you went to wash 1 um, you'd jl)st reach doim. there and get you a handful of that and out on it, rub it on your clothes. Helen Ann And, then battle with it. Alice Yep, just battle on um. I stood and beat on them things lots. Helen Ann 1Laugh1r1 L ".J Alice It 1 11 knock the dirt out of um, but it sorta wore the clothes outitoo. navid Did you ~ake your own clothes? Alice Oh yeah, "!am'1a made "lost everythin,, we had, just about it. ,She always done the sewing and cooking, house careing, done alot of work in the field. Yeah, she ma'de our clothes. t"ade ~y daddy's shirts ~any a year. And she'd Helen Ann Did she buy the, buy the material or "lake it? Alice Out uh, made alot of um, um out uh fertiliier sacks, what we get fertilize in, you !(now, it wadn 1 t tote sacks now, hit then, "iaybe 1d get a chance of good white, like uh, sometime you 1 d get a flour like sack with it in there, and she Id "lake his shirts out of the~ to go to the field. Course, you had to buy <:;unday ones to go to church and thinc,;s and then, when we went to school we just had, we didn't have a suit for everyday like chilen does now. 'Jhey have a different suit everyday they go, or my grandkids does, I don't know bout other folks, but then we had about one or two dresses a u 0 week and we'd go to school. We 1 s paticular about our school clothes. We'd come home, thats first thing we done was get off our clothe'" and get on our everyday clothes befo:r'e _we ,ever went to eat anything or ilo anything. Belen An.D Yeah. Al ice We wore them, bout two suits a piece a week. T1'amma made out'.' work cloti1es, course, we didn't never, kidn 1 t know what it was then, for girls to wear pants, They wore dresses, Boys had the pants 1n women wore tl,e dresses. Helen Ann What did you think about that? Helen Ann And all, all ours, uz, dresses, uh, I like nants best. I di'dn1 t then, I didn1 t know nothing else and I wore the dresses and, but, when pan ts come along, I 1 ike um ilnucrll better than I do dresses. But !'amma always worked around and 1rnpt a little bit, She'd go to town and pie!{ un stuff enough to make us a dress. She knowed just a what size we was 1 n howi Much it'd take to make that dress and she'd skimp and get it ma0e and we thought we was dressed nice and now the~ people wouldn 1 t put them on and go out and o1ay. l\Tah, they wouldn 1 t, Helen Ann Did she ~ake the~ by hand? Do all the sewing herself? Alice She had a sewing, she had a sewlng "Jachin19. Helen Ann She did. Al ice She sat and sewed many a night, way in the night, by ole la1c10 light. Helen Ann Kerosine? Ali.ce r Kero sine lamp. That s all we ever had dm,m there. lJhis refers to the old house that she lived in beforeJ Paopa never would ha~e no lectricity, no, he's scared of that stuff in his house and he never would have none. So, ther<cls not any down there yet. And when mam_ma died, why "'lY, course my husbands dead and they, all of um, all the ch tld ren said that u~ niy place to go down there and stay with dad, cause I didn 1 t have no home, no, didnt have n.. o husband,,had a home foshim, Rest of ums all dead. So, 1 took him IJ:ler son, Daryl) and went down there and he done all his studying, going to school by that ole la',o; sit down at night and he 1 d have one la'1p righp down on his tableside by his books aod hed have another one (s), Never did have no, in ma, uh, mammas and papoa 1 s last days they got these battre radios. 'felen Ann These what? Alice Battre radio, you know, thete that run with battres~ Helen Ann Um hum. (~rs. Tuck was speaking of a battrey radio::}' Alice Well, we got one of the 1 and pap pa never did want us to play it, onllf just to get the news and things like that, cause the battresd soon play out. But after he got feeble and got in the bed, why I played it. I had "'Jore to buy anyhow and I olayed it when I got ready, I'd sit down there and play everynight to Saturday night, midnight. Helen Ann t9nce ag-ain "'Y response was laughter:) Alice Long as that good "'lUsic was on J 1 d sit there and listen. Helen Ann You I d 1 is ten. Alice An uh, I still got it in yonder now, sitting in yonder in ~y house. Helen Ann Your old ,:'adio? Alice That old battrey radio. Course we don 1 t never use it and I let the battres set in n liked t ruin it. I don't know whether it'd clay now or not, but I still got it in there. Helen Ann I 1 cl like to see it. Alice And uh, Helen Ann Why was he afraid of electricity? Alice He's scared of lightening might run in the house and set it afire. See, he never had ~een raised for nothing like that and he just thought at was the dangerG-Yses t thing anybody could have ln their house uz lecticity coming in there. David T guess it caused quite a few fires back then an!Y"way? Alice 'That's right, Didn t nobody have any the. Everybody used la-no. Course, sooie had better la ems than others and then, we in, uh, fihally in uh, later years we got what th1y called uh, ,gr ill lat"P and hit burnted uh, kerosene, but y0u pumped it up. lt'rs. Tuck made a oumping sign with her hands ''1Uch the sam8 that a Cole"Jan lantern is pumped up today0 ,J David Right, Alice And then it had a .. David J\':antle? Alice J\'antle on it and it made a good light, 'bout as good as lectric light now, but uh, it was hard to ke,fp "antles for you couldn 1 t nothing couldn 1 t tech 1 um, you couldn1 t get U"l jared no way. They d just fall to oieces. --:relen Ann What was the name of those~ Al ice Fh, mantle lamp,, Halen Ann Mantle la"!D. Alice And you can let kerosene in it, hut you Pumped it UP. Helen Ann TTh huh Alice Had to have that air in it for it uh ever go through that ma~tle and uh.,. David You'd cook everything on the stovei On the wood fire stove? Helen A.nn Yeah, you were telling about your stove, was it a wood stove Alice Yeah, old wood stove. I uh, bought, we uh, boght a wood stove ,1hen I married in thirty-eight. I coo!0 ed on a wood stove while "'Y husband lived and long ti"le af'terwsrds. Helen Ann What we,:,e some of your favorite recetots? Cfhat you, ,naybe your mother ta ua;h t you? Alice . Oh, I never d' d, I wacln t "1.ush of a done the cooking. I went to field, I'd eat anything, honey, put before laughs and so do I':l Alice cook , The older ones 'l'hey cl id the coo l,:_i ng. '18 and still can. (9he Terry, you better helo, me out. You sent un uo here now I bout got all far as I can go wi.th it, t[erry David Daryl 'i['erner had just come into the workshoo to offer to show and I around the '1 ill'~, -' Well, you better let us go to sawing, \yoices are "'Uffeled in the background~ Helen Ann Were you, did you, we re going to tell me one joke maybe? Allee Euh? Helen Ann we~e you goini,: to tell '"8 maybe one of those jokes? ,Just anyone. Alice I just can t. I wish I c,wld but, I just can 1 t. and uh, don 1 t read that to everybody, lease. Helen Ann Oh, it won t be, It won t be. It will be out i.n the archives. Q had previously explained what ari archi.ves is Alice TTh huh Helen Ann Somebody has to know urn. Ali. ce 'That 1 s right~ tAt this ,.,oint I stopoed the tape as it was obvious that the ti.me that I had been allotted was at an end, "owever, Jl,lirs. Wck began talking about how it would be if oeoole lived the way they did in her youth~ a return into the cast. I turned the tape back on and recorded the re-,1ainder of our conversation, Alice Yes-sir-ree, hit looks like its on the road, Helen Ann T~ be learning them again? timey ways:::J - Alice ~\!-. sooke of the'n as meaning the old Yeo, I 1ve told "lY boy that, I said, I tell ya right now, if your children ever gets down to co= up like I had to conie mp, I says, they' 11 loose their "lind, 'They won I t be, the:{won 1 t have it, cause they don 1 t know what a hard ti"1e is. Helen ll.nn Fut, you said that all 1 n all, you liked those days the better, ll.lice I did, yeah, I did, uh huh, We had more 'leace and satisfaction than we have now, Yr, Freeman I 1m goihg to have to blast the'n out. Helen Ann Okay, CC N IBN 'l:S I. Sayin3s A. That I s Gree\, to me B. Close as skin C. Smoked black as coal D. Cold as Blixum E. Sweat a gallon F. A pinch and a pour IT. t'edicines aY1d Remedies A. Aloe -Plant- good for cuts and burns, cures infection, grows wild in Florida, snap leaf and ajllply as salve or ointment B. Soot- from the chi.nney, stops bleeding C. Iodine and Alum- stops bilieeding, tt1,,q.11 stop an artery'' D, Bolfu.amet-wild herb, good for fever and c,:riP, grows wilcl in swa"'lp. Drink as tea, E. catniP- wild herb, good for nerves, drlhk as tea F. Penneroil-herb, use forgotten G. jSoearmint- usually for coo~ing H. Peopermint- good for nerves I, Ginger crea- drink to Prevent colds III. cures for mouth A. Yellow root- inflamation of tle mouth, i:,:rows on branch banks, forked leaf. B. Chew tobacco or dip snuff C. Oil of clove D. Blow S"1oke into the mouth (tobacco} E. salt polis- heat salt ancl make comp=ss. IV. Wedding ceremony in roo1t. area A. Preacher in h~"1e . Pay with money or food v. Comc1unity builds house destro,yed by fire A. Friends and neighbors B. C,eneral descriution VI. Hous,ehold chores A. straw ticks-how to make B, Clean floors VII. Foods Ar Hominy B. Souse meat G,, Stock's food VIII. Planting by moo\n A, New of the moon- grow tall B. Full on the moon- grow short c. Wind out of the east- peas and beans IX, Christmas Festivities A. Serenade J;H,iV:isit C. Bull holler X. Mullen Plant A, Bend toward girlfriend's house B. If lives, loves I have ofteo thou0;ht that elderly peoole 1ela te far better to the youW''. oeople of today,_than does the intervening generation of\ Q1Jr parents. Older folk just seem to have experienced that basicness 0f life that most of the youth 0f today seek,.';, November 10, 1973 reinforced my notion. David Keller and T drove t:, Lawrenceville to visit and rapp with Mr. and !V'rs, 1'.A.. 'Railey, or Tom and Zona as tbey prefer to be salled. Zona told us that her real name is Arizona Eind that chi.ldren used to be nEl"'.ed Eifter states. J'ne Baileys have a wonderful home 'n the country. It is located in Auburn, Georgia, 30;;03. Their ohone mhber is 963-4121, Zona told us of their first nhone. It was a comnuni ty nhone Eind whenever anyone got a call everyone knew about it because all calls rang at all homes. '[hat could and would he very nerve rac1d.ng today. cine w1uld absoiliutely go insane. Auburn is located outs:'.de of Lawrenceville. 'Che count".'y is onen land and very p".'etty, Tom told us that the area was cotton land. A mao is included giving directions to the Failey' s horie. Tom and Zona are two of the fi_nest ole sou:).s that I have ever encountered, Tom is seventy-four and Zona is seventy. 'Chey are an abs,olli.utely charming couple who have been married for fifty years and are still very much in love. Zona said that the$ are everything to each other and nothing to a.'1.ybody else. They have no child1en of their own but care for a lot of neices and nephews. All throughout their home is '"olunder'" that these ls:ids want to keep and no one will save it except for Tom and Zona. Among these collections are birdnests, wishbones, sticks and all sorts of oftds and ends. Tom and Zona collect pitchers themselves. They have shelves cr~mmed full of little tiny glass p:7.tchers, When we first arrived I knew that it would be a good day. I enjoy being surrnunded by the old ways of 1 ife, Zona Insisted that she knew absolutely nothing of im0ortance to be recorded. She had heard her voice on a recorder at an earlier date and did not like the results. No, no, no, she did not want to be recorded. Thanks go to David who keot insistinc; in a polite manner. /\.;t'.ter the 11 formal" recording we, Tom, Zona, David and I. took a walk and then returned to the kitchen for sowe homemade biscuits and s-:iup. Tom sai.d that the l{itchen was the room that they lived in the most. It had snch a warm and cozy and cotr'fortable feeling. I said to Zona that I hope to someday have as happy a marriage ~s she seemed to have and also to have a home with all my fave.-,i te things to s urro1md "'8. One special area of interest that I shared wlth Zona was her wonderful plant collection. She has various types of cactus, some of which are five and six feet tall, plus a variety of other tyoes of olants. Zona gave me s~veral cliooings of cactus. secrets to dirt, She they don t I am q)ilite proud of the.,, I asked her for any growing them. She said just stick the,n in the also said to watch out for the cactus because got no respect for you. Please meet i,r. and 11,'rs. T. A, Bailey, or Tum and Zona. Zona Now are you ready for tl'e to take a shot at it? I'm just lite, I'm still, see, I'm dumb as, I'm si:\.ent. Helen Ann Well, okay, maybe I can o:ive you a few ideas that will make you, helo you to remeciber someth'_ng. Zona You have to ask "le a question. Helen Ann Right. What about something like suoerstitions, can you remember any )ld supers ti ill ions like throwing salt over your shoulder? Zona I've heard so many, it's like tte little joke, I've don'igot um all mixed up. No, I don t know, I can t recall a thing in the world about superstitions. Helen Ann Anything about "lagic? Zona I never did, ~ ~ , I'm gonna have to 0:et by 11rn. LTom exited the room:,_J Helen Ann Didn t peoole, oeoole used to about pregnancy, didn t they? Zona have alot of strange beliefs About About everytring. 'Ihere was a sign or a belief or '!lagic or superstit1 on about everything. David Omen. A re, a reasoh for everything. ,Just have to find a reason for it. Zona ,.Jt 1s just running for nothing cause I can 1 t tell you a thing. L,'l>h~ is talking about the tape recorder. Zona is quite conscious about being recorded.] [Tom mumbles in the background. over one another, or talk while Helen /tnn I found that they tend to talk the CJther- is tG-1\:-ins .. j \:as s-:ime of them uh, like nutting a horseshoe over a barn drior? Zona "eople back in M.y day, theyl-,ut 'um in tbe house over the door for good luck. r Bob Why is 1- t called, if you hang it the wrong way it s bad luck. Zona I don't know but I gi,ess it w:rnld be. Helen Ann was it suonose to ward off evil soirits or something, doesn t it? Zona I don t know but :r've always heard it was just good luck to. Helen Ann Yeah. Zona ro hang up a horseshoe. Bob Fncle Tom, can t you hang a horseshoe upside down and be bad luck? Tom That I never heard. Zona He don't know. Tom That s a Greek to me. Helen Ann That's a what? David Greek Zona Greek to him. Helen Ann What uh, what d' d you use to, use like for me die ine? Tom You hang um up for good luck though, Zona \ I can t place it because I quit, we quit using home renledies. Bob What was that olant you rubbed on my hand that time? 'Zona An aloe, Bob Aloe Helen Ann An aloe Zona But that's, that s a r10dern thing, but i t 1 s 0:ood, rt s for all kinds of skin troubles, sores. David I re1ember you telling me about that. What was it aqut and it started getting infected? @avid is talldng to Bob:J Zona For burns and anything l'ke that. They claim it will stop infections and cure things that other medicines haven't cured. David TTh huh. Does it grow wild? Zona No. no, It does in Florida, but ours dont grow wild here because of the seasons, David YeS"luT.1.an. l'.fe len Ann I think they Sob Was that what Oze was growing for a while? Zona I got it now. I got oilienty of aloe. Bob I know she was -rrowin,, son-;e th i'"g, Zona Tom, bring it off the table ln the living room, that planter. Bob I can get it. Zona In the living room, Bobby. It's on the, on the. let CJe move, wait a minute honey. In the living room on the, on the coffee table. Aloe, the aloe dish. @ona spealts to Tocri in her last sentence~ Tom Oh yeah. Helen !\nD What would some thinp: Zona you do like if you cut your finger or your hand or How would you stop tt from bleeding? Oh, you would 7et socrie soot off the back of the chimley, and what else do you do? '!hat was, that s one of the oldest ole remedies. David Is that soot? Zona 'Ihe fireolaces was ooen, you know. David TTh huh, Zona And the soot, s double o t, suit or soot, which-ever, Helen Ann Uh huh David 'Iha t's on Zona On the back Davi<;} From the s1oke? Zona It 1 s black, hlacl{ as coal, just like oowder, you know, You just get some and put on your finger and bind it uo and stooped it from bleeding. I've seen um heal uo with soot down in it and make a scar forever. navid Eea ve it black? Zona Leave it black in there. David I've never heard of that, never have. Zona Fh huh, But, I tell you thoucc,;h, !l 'T!odern remedy, well, I wouldn t say it s :riodern, but idineLJ.odinELland alum stoos, it 111 stop an amtery thats cut if you bind it on. Bob ~eenters the room with the planter of aloe] 'Iba t s, that s aloe. Zona Thats an aloe, 'Ibank you hon. Sob I wall;!ed right, right in to the din; ng room. Zona Huh? Bob I went to the dining room. Zona You went to the din in.fr roo rn '.ns tead of the 1 i_ ving roo-1, David What, how w-ould you ore:iare that? 'J:alk:lnc,; about the aloe. Zona '[his is the only way you do it. [i3he snaps a leave oft' and breaks it into ';j Hold your hand, back of your hand. She rBbs the aloe on David 1 s hand. '.-!elen Ann !8~ just rub it on there. Zona See there. Helen ./\nn WhoaJ ~he juice poured out of the plan t.J David Like salve. Zona Look now, rub it on just like rubbing ointment on, na vid It ~eels just like oint"'lent. Helen /\nn Smells like a green bean, Sob Burns a little bit on a cut. David It does? Helen /\nn I wi:ish I had one. Zona Wish you had what? Helen Ann /\ cut, to see what- What was that you sa, iodi, iodine and what was that other one? Zona Alum. Helen l\nn Alum. Zona Powdered alllm and iodine will stoD, wibl stoo a burn, a bleeding. Cause we ve tr>ied that. Helen /\nn Some of the ones like your mothe used~ What, was , did she use kerosinez Was it, was that an ~le re~edy? Zona Yeah, that 1 s used alot, hut it's like I tell you children, I've forgotten how,it1 s, just like I can 1 t place +:hese boys. I've forgotten where you out what. David You li:now you use some things for something, but not, Zona That s right, because I, I used to could remember all this stuff, but I lddn t anymore. Bob What was that remedy you were telling ne? Tom Well, you used to have catnio. Zona Oh yeah. Helen Ann catnio? Zona Everybody had ca tn i.o cause 'Ibm 'Ihats an old remedy. Zona For your nerves. l-lelen Ann 1,vhat is catnip? Zona rt s an herb. It gtows out in the garden. You, it s specially good for babiew, new babies. David Cutting their teeth or something? Zona No, no. It1 s when they I re nervous and don t sleep. Just make catnip tea and sweeten it and give it to them. It's a nerve 11edicine. For grown people if your nervous and feel bad you take you a cup of hot catnip tea and its just like taking a tranquelizer. Tom And there s a boneset. Zona Tha t 1 s the, grows in the wilds. '!hat s for a fever. Tom 'Ihats one of the oldest ones. Helen Ann What was that? Zona Boneset. rts an herb that grows wild in the swamps. When you have a cold, used to call it grip, you know, instead of influenza. David Instead of a cold, Zona rt s a cold, David Uh huh Zona You take a mess of boneset tea and ;o to bed and youd"sweat a gallon" and you I d be we 11 by "JO rning. )J:elen Ann L:, laughed at this expression"] Zona Jv!y daddy used to make a special trio every fall and catch uh, gather up a bag of boneset weed. David What? Did it just grow out :iin r:-,eorgia? Zona In the swamPs. In the swa"p You ve got to 1mow it before you <C;a ther it, know what it is. David TTh huh, Zona I know it when I see it, but I've not seen none in a long time. 'Ibm '[hen there s a penneroil. Zona Yeah, It's 'Ibm there's a penneroil, but I don t know what it 1s used for, an herb too. It was medicine .back in the'! da1,s. Zona I know it. And a spearm.Jmt and a peppermint. Peppermints a nerve medicine too. but. soearmint, I think they used it more or less in teas and cooking and you know, stuff l.ike that. David For flavor'? Zona Uh huh, flavor. Bob What about yellow root? Zona Yellow roots for inflamation of the ,,,outh when y,u have, like wh,ft what is it you have when your mouth brea\i!s out? Tom Well, youi:know, back them days there wasn t no drugstore or nothing like that. Zona But, it crows on the branch banlcs, grows on the branch hanks, It has a forked leaf. David TTh huh. Zona People pre pared in the fa 11 for it. David Pre paJ:le d for the winter? Zona '!hat s right. Just li.ke for the food and fuel for the heat, you know, David TTh huh, Zona 'They gathered uD the herbs and thi.ngs, Helen Ann TTh huh, Zona For the medicine through the winter, Helen Ann For sickness. Zona For sic!'!mess, Helen Ann Now, about the teeth. I guess if you, if you had a toothache what did you do? Just suffer? ' Zona w.,,11, ~ost the oeoole out snuff or a chew of terbaccer but, I tfton' t think that oeoole, I don t know how old oil of clove is, but you know, that 1 s an old remedy. David Right. Zona You all vnow what that is. Helen Ann Uh huh. Zona I, let/3 see, yeah, they~lew snoke in your , in your mouth. Whoever sioked would b1ow hot snoke in your 'llouth, in your1 on your tooth, you know, ohew. Helen l\nn Shew! Zona AJ:l-d I don t t lmow. David It 1d probably 'llake you sick and you 1 d forget your tooth was hurting. Zona 'Ihat1 s ri ghm. I guess so. I don't know, I don't remember ruch about it. Oh yeah, they did take, 'llBke hot salt polis on the jaw. Heat salt in a skillet. Tom Salt ool is. T,::iats what they used. Zona Salt, s a 1 t. They1 d,1 it heated in an iroh skillet on the stove. It got hot. A hot salt holds heat a long t'.me. And it make a little :bag, or if you didn 1 t have one done 1ia'de, a little, little bag to put it in and put that hot salt in there and hold it on your face. David On the outside where the tooth that was hurt- Zona nh huh, on the outside where the tooth was. Helen Ann Like a compress. Zona TTh huh, and you1 d put a cloth over it, you know, to keep the heat aod thef 1d last a long time. Helen Ann Hurn. Zona I, I've made salt th'ngs and out on oeoole 1 s jaws. I guess you call it a ob~is. r-re len Ann hi(\?, JJUSJt out it' in a little piece of cloth or so"le thtngZ Zona Yeah. You just take you a little cloth and sew up you a little bag to out it in, cause you have to so it w on t soill out and waste. Helen An Right, Zona Another funny thing, when we was growing up, was kids, everynight of the world,-we used to have winters. When the ice and the sleet came and the first sleet of the winter come, it didn 1 t never go away. It stayed all the winter long. Each one, each storm came just got right on, the last one fell and you wouldn 1 t see the earth n0r n0thirn, till sor:Lno: thaw. 11>.nd it was cold all the winter long. David Well, where was this? Bob I heard Tncle >Teil say that it was colder when he was a boy and the winters were a ldt worse when he was a boy. Zona Oh, they, it was awful when we was kids, and e verynight that came, mamma d make a Ditcher :!lull of gi.nger tea. Tom Well, the land wadn1 t cleared and it grew up, you khow, and tha t 1 s what makes it so. Zona MamC1a,1d make a nitcher of ginger tea. She had a little ole white ena:nle pitcher.and she'd bo.il the water in the fireplace in an ole iron kettle, it was rolling boil and she d have her ginger, powdered ginger, you know, Helen Anr1 Uh huh, Zona and the sup:ar in thls pitcher and then she I d oour that boilin~ water in there and stir it and wed all have a cup of ginger tea before we went to bed, Helen Ann Try to keep you warm. Zona Keep warm and keep from takin", cold, Helen Ann Yeah. Zona 'That s just as regular as p:oin, to bed at night, was our cup of ginger tea. David Was it good? Zona It's good, it's really good if you like, if you like any way, any taste of ginger. But, I love ginger. Helen Ann What was your favorite time of the year'? Holiday or Zona I don't ,.c.ome s. L-'T'his is have a favionite, I never have. I I don t have a favorite season or certainely a beautiful ohilosophy Hll.len Ann Wel1, thats nice. C Zona love everyday that favorite holiday. of life,) Well, I'll take that back cause there was one, I guess it be at valen, no, valentine/J not in February, is it7 Helen Ann Yes Yes. Zona It is? Belen Ann February the fourteenth. Zona I guess that would be ,.y favorite time cause thats when Tom asked me to "'Jarry him, was in Fe'pruary, Helen Ann Oh. After seventy years. Is that what you said seventy? Bob Fifty. Belen Ann Fifty. Zona And he rave ,,,e a bouquet of violets. We was here and he oicked me a little bouquet of violets. I still, when the house burned, 'r'IY, we saved my cedar chest.and it had ffy little treasures in it, just a little book thing I I s keeping and I had my bouquet of vi&lets was pressed 4n that book. That may sound ----~entimental or senile_J to you all, cra~y. Helen Ann No. Zona But when you love sormbody you always love um no matter how old they get. "!"elen Ann RealJ,y. I,ove um. Zona And fat and humoed back and ugl\YY, li\.te ne. Helen Ann I,ove 1 um more every day. Zona That s right. 'Ibm J Back then the 0,,did Without in the ruual areas, '!hey didn 1 t have big weddings. We just went to some preache1" and go; ""!arried. Bob Fh huh. Zona '[hat 1 s what we did Helen Ann wasn't a big ceremony or anything? Zona TTh uh. 'There wasn t anything lJke that in our day. There was some home weddings but, there wasn 1 t no decorating, no fixing up. They just got the Q1"eacher to c0me to the home and marry they, the couole. Helen Ann nh huh. David Did, would you have a bi.r: "eal? Zona Yeah, usually they1 d have a big meal. David And that would be the celebration? Zona Yeah, that s about all it was. Bob Did you have to pay the oreacher then? Zona Yeah, you 1 d oay the preacher~ If you didnt have the money you give him some produce or some thing out of the garden or the fields, cause his family had to eat too. David Right. Helen A.nn You said that when your house burned that the community helped you to build it. Tom In other words, they built it. Zona Yeah. It was, as I said in June. 'Ibm Cf course we did all we could do but, th is whole olace around here, from eight to ten "'iles, come in hel'.'e, soe1etimes be thirty-five work inr; on this house. Zona And there was no, was no pubibic works. '!he'0 e was no oublic works at that time tn the C0"'1mnity, and the wh"ile COr"munity was full of young men, you m.V,;h t say grown young t"en from two and three brothers in a family, and com0se everbbody fom miles on earth knew my daddy. And after the home burned and we cleaned up the mess that place where all this rubble and stuff. Helen Ann Uh huh. Zona It took a time to do that and got it cleared up and this ~Tr. Ki119ore, his boys moved the sawmill in the woods and they was a crew of 11en and b,,ys that cut trees and they falled thesentvees and cut the logs with a cro 0 s cut saw, not a chain iaw, by hand. Every:i{ck was by hand. And they sawed these logs._ 'Ihe man that was go;_ng to build it give, you know, the dimensions of what, the length. And they d saw this and it was, then, the Kill go re boys hauled it by a truck, out on the lower hill outthere and they put up racks and we air dried it and I worked just like the 'llen. Helen Ann TTh huh. Zona I lost two toenails in the fire. I didn1 t kn,.,ck I um off but, just drove I um back and they, just come off. Hit 'um you know, or some thing. David TTh huh. Zona Just set 1 um back. I didn't know it for days and days. Helen Ann TTh. Zona Cause, I wasn 1 t exactly together anyway. 'Ibo big of a shock. Tom Yeah. Zona And so I was barefoot. I went barefoot the whole summer long and we hauled this lumber out on there and what a frame is, you put up a oole here and there and a long strtp, you know. 7/ Tom Wind racked it. Zona Where you wind racked it. Put uo two thinzs like this and out uo and then out these things, lumbers uo on each si_de and let 'um cross fro11 one another so they'll dry. You could get It kiln dried, and its green, rt warped to use it. David Rir:h t. Zona So it had to be air dtied. And it was air dried for a while and they started building it. And these sen and boys, it was it was, it s ariazing how, how people come and worked on this house. It just, i tis just not done anymore. Cause the com"luni ty's not the sanJe and everybody has a job. Helen Ann Right. Zona And the boys would come and a lot of 1um 1 d bring vegetables from their gardens and we would cook and we I d fix dinner for the whole crowd and sol'.'letimes there was thirty to feed. David Uh. Zona And what we cooked on i..las a, a ole brokedown home comfort range that was in the kitchen and it, it cooked just as well on top, cour>se it wa 0 all burned. You can imagine how it looked. And the oven door wouldn 1 t stay put. We, Toljl or somebody saved me a board just right to, see we cooked in the ole kitchen on the dirt floor. The Killgore boys brour:ht some old lu'l!ber and built a kitchen out in the grove fer, fer a cook room, cook stove, a kitchen, David While they were building the house? Zona While they was building the house. to cook and eat. And I'd hit that and 1t 1d hold the stove, oven door David rtd prop the door sh~t? Zona Cause we had nowhere ole thing on the g~ounq clcsed and I would bake. Prop the door shllltl!. And they brought a bag of sawdust and spread over the groung in the kitchen and that was our floor to cook on. Any they'd bring vegetables, corn and green beans and sQ_uash and onions and things that grew in June. And they d come as far as_ I guess 1.as, how far was the },artin pla~e? (Talking to Tom-::) 'Ihey1 d walk and come, the Chamber family Tom I don 1 t know. They1 d come eight or ten miles. Zona And so it was just amazing to see how this house grew up. Tom w,,11, we knew everybody in twenty mile in every direction. Zona Everybody had a job. They'd put down the oillars, they'd out down the cills. To "1 And it was a cublic place. We had a grist 7111, a filling station and I bad a little country store and all that, but Zona And he was known all over, far and near. So everybody that could come and lend a: hand and they didn1 t not one sou:J_ charge a di ~.e. Helen Ann Yeah. David JV~st have been a lot of friendship. Zona Just friendship, through sympathy and friendship. And these boys, they was just all over and so T; oze and "le,. my sister Oze and me, we had three neices in North Curlina @arolina:1 JVy sister lived down there and they came down, we called them when the home burned and they had just got out of college and they just grabbed their bags and come on down and there's no where to sleeo, nothin.9: to sleeo on. So, Tum went to Winder to brother Ralei@l 1 s, his brother and bought a bolt of, we called it sheeting in them days, unbleached fabric, you ~now, white stuff, Helen Ann TTh huh, Zona And sister Oze had a sewing machine so the,, she brought her sewing machine over here. We put down two boards out in the yard to put its feet on. You khow, just an old fashion treddle machine. Helen Ann TTh huh. Zona And we put two boards down and set that on it and sewed up straw ticks which you all never seen. David Uhph. Zona We, everybody used them then. They used straw beds and feather beds on top, Everybody that had beds, that 1 s what they had; That s what we had, We didn1 t own a mattress ih the house. We used feather beds and straw ticks. We sewed up these ticks. I don t kl'low how 01any nc:lW, Tum Got about five or six, seven in there now. Zona And Tum had a little, a little, not now. We don t have any now. Tom Feather beds'? Zona Oh we, feather beds, I'm talking about straw beds and we went over to the field, We had a wheat natch on twenty-nine and thej: had thrashed it, at that time you cut your wheat by cradle, shocked it uo, then the thrasher c0me and stood beside it and thrashed and threw out all the straw in a pile. David TTh huh, Zona We went over there in this ole truck and we fixed about four or five straw beds. It was all you could do to, we had to throw plow lines over it to tie um by force and that's what we slept on, We put them in the flower house, in the storehouse and we cleaned out the shop and out two beds out there for my daddy and marrma and they'd lay on, there was two feather beds saved. Daddy took feather beds out of the house while it was burning. David Uh huh, Z'ona We fixed the bed for them. bed and it was, it was "!Ore Tum It was just like ca,,,,oinp;. And everybody lay on his straw fun. Zona Heartbreaking fun that 1 s ever been on earth. ,...rts just like the night you were talking about last night. LJ3efore the recording began we had been talking about that the night before the ""'oon was quite full and very bright-;::} We didn't go to bed the nights the moon shined. We had two boys 1 ived with us. 'Ibey were from broken home. They come and lived with us and they sleot in the storehouse on a little ole single cot. They said they'd have to tie their arms and legs together to stay on that cot so they wou ldn 1 t fall off. And nights 1 ike that we d work a cleaning up, all night. w:e: 1 d haul on the wheelbarrow in the moonlight a cleaning up to get ready for tomorrow. And then, when they started to building we 1 d get all the rubble picked up at night by the moonshine.so it wouldn t get in the way and be a clutter. I weighed 12C oounds and went barefoot every step of the way and W'"lrked just like a man. I cant do that now, got more years and more fat on me. Tom There s some stuff here that s a hundred years old. That old soinning wheel's a hundred years old. Zona But, the first, I finish,, about this house, We went on a building this house and the boy that 1 i ve d with us and a neic;hborboy that lived up the road, he 1 s just like our 0wn, they got UP on this house holding the first two rafters they out up. And see, thls is wide. rts not, the roofs not planned right. David TTh huh. Zona But the "lan that built it got confused and t 1_me like that you don 1 t criticize. Helen Ann Really. Zona You just be thankful and so David Be thankful you ve g;ot a :i'oof over your head ayi11. Zona That s ri:;,:ht. And so they nut uo tho,Je two rafters and I never prajed as hard in all my life that they wo1ldn 1 t fall. 'fhose rafters lod>ked so long and shakey. Car1111et lAfages, and Roy McDaniel held 1he first two, and I just honed and prayed 'Ibm Well Its twenty-seven feet long. Them rafters on this house are twenty-seven feet long. Zona Each one is twenty-seven foot long and that, long to hold. And they was nailed UP here and these boys would hold um down here and it was a little bit:i wavery. It's a whole lot of worry. I coui_~,nt do a thing till they got that first rafter up and gotiffoe next one up to brace it. David So it would stand alone? Zona So it W'>uld stand eel.one, that's right. 'They got it done and ~amma and daddyf s golden anniversary was in October, the first of October, and this was in June the house burned. David TTh huh. Zona And it was built and co\iJered and partitions was run up so'\rar all over, nothing finished, but we had their golden weddihg anniversary the fi.rst of October. And we had got gold toliet, not toliet paper, but tissue, what do you call it? Crepe pacer. We got gold crepe caper. We done our decorating with paper for their P:0 lden wedding. Helen Ann rfu huh. Zona We used the gold creoe oaoer around t'1e table and fixed it up , We 1 s no thin,, to buy with, nothing to do with, but we s all SJ thankful wes here and they lived to see their annive,sary. Helen Ann That you had so me th.inc,;. Zoha And course my mamma had no oeoole, but daddy had some sisters and bro the rs, so the fa"'lily came and that was the extent of the golden weddlnp: annl.ve,,sar-J. No gifts. No anythin";. Just a hapoy rret together, thou9:h it was sad, but yet, we 1 s here. David Thankful. Zona We' s thankful and uh, then the uh, followtng Christmas we sealed thi.s room and our bedroom and the kitchen. That was ~11 was fi.Jed for ages 1 n ages cause we just didn~ have to L.."J' .... , ... l~./ ,/ .. :}'"'~:.,;..:~,--t:.fi.X:}r}-(:q7 . ',, ,_, (.::]_ ;,.7;-",_r._.(J :::.>~. (:~ 1 7'. 0.'.'.Ve do with and we just fixed as we could, and when you dont have anything, you s tending out bare except what Is on your body, no shoes, nothing, you just feel so alone. It, ,its real oitiful, But we were so thankful and so many of these boys that worked so hard a building this house, course theys all men thats living, so many are gone, so many have dled, It1 s, it1 s really heartbreaking just to sit down and start to think about the boys that worked cin this house, h,w 'lany 1 s gone and here, we 1 re still around for some ourpose. David B:ow lono; ago was this? Zona 'I'nirty- 0 ive. David In thirty-five? David Fh huh, David And it took about Tom Bout thirty-eight years. David How long did it take from the Zona Beginning? David From the beginning to end, to finish the house? Zon~It1 s not finished yet. It's not finished yet. Tom Ah, we 1 re just .... ? Zona We lack some doors and some things, probably won 1 t ever be. We'll let the next un, the next one that inherits the thing finish 't uo. But, we just thankful it's like it is. ~11eres so nuch work needs to be done because 011r oorches is just pitiful. f1aybe we 111 have a little fairy come along some day and fix the oorches for us. Helen Ann Hum, now do y0u "elieve in fai.ries? Zona I guess I do sometimes. Tum Well, I have a brother that s eighty-nine,: He had a pre tty serious ooeratlon bout three weeks ago. Zona '.lbm' s of a big famLly. I'nere was only four of us. Tom Eleven of us. Dat;id EleY'en! Zona Tnere was thirteen born ln the fanily. Tum '[he youngest orie, his daddy's the youncres t one. [Tne reference is made to Bob Pailey, the great neohew to Zona and Tum.) Bob He's seventy. Zona His daddy, his d9.ddy and me used to be sweethearts. David Oh. Zona We're the same age. day of July and I'm He 1 s just that much Helen Ann Uh huh. Zona We 1 re seventy, He's seventy the second seventy the twenty-third of February. older than I am. Bob's daddy, Bob, Bobby's daddy, Bob. David Well,, how old are y--iu, Tom? Tom Seventy-four. David Seventy-four. ~m 7 Sometimes I feel like I'm seventeen. l}t this ooint 'Ibm laughs.!! Zona And sometimes y0u feel like you re a hundred. Tom I was raised about three miles above here on Red (perhaps Fountain"':\ My pappy had a big ole farm. cotton cour'rtry at' that time and you :now, people head over heels a everyway. Zona 'Ihis was a raised cotton Tom and me I s farmed all of our younger years. He always had a horse and, then we had a road cart when we's first married, painted blazing red and wed hitch Pet to that cart and boy, we d go to Dacular doing ninety to nothing, That was fun, I really and truly. 'Ibm Have you ever seen the:1 wheat cradles out there in the blacksmith shop? Bob Yeah, like that. 'Ibm Uh huh. Helen A'ln You have some? Out there? 'Ibm TTh huh, ~ot a couple. Zona And another th in,:,: oeoole wouibd do in the winter time, they d preoare, talking about the "'edicine situation or things, they'd get out on a pretty day and coo1,r a washpot full of hominy. You know what hominy is? David Grits? .Zona It's corn, cooked corn. Tom The. run the lye to 11alrn it. You can buy it in stores now, but it ain 1 t cooked the way we cooked it. Zona Tom and me s cooked a thousand gallon I guess, in our day. I'd always cook it, never was ri~ht without a pot full of hominy, cause it would be so cold it would, there was no freeier in the refrigerator or nothing, but the weather stayed so cold you just set it away ln big ole churns and crocks and things and have hominy as long as it lasted. Before it beg8 n to give out, if another pretty day come, you could stay outside you cook another pot. You had to keep hominy the winter lcmg and it was good. Helen Ann And it was so cold you could keep that "1Uch of it? Zona Oh yeah, You could kee'J it, It would freeze. Tom A:nd we corn. store. except Zona used to raise our own "1eat, our own flour, our own We raised everyth Ing, We didn't have to go to the There wasn 1 t no such a thi.nsi: as 12:01.ng to the sibmre for a little sup:ar and salt. What was the old lady in the foxfire?l,-Was it Airy? At Bob Arie ('lPell it] David Aries. Zona What 1 s her na~e? I laughed. Bobby brought his, I laughed till I hurt when she said those boys went to her house to talk with her and I just laughed last night thinking about ya'll coming to talk to Aunt Arie, me, I'm her, and they, go.t those boys to take the eyes out of a hogj, head. She I s talking about her husband always done it and boys did it and they was gone. She had never done that and would they Please do it for her. Boy, they had a war. It made -ne think of the first ones I ever did. David Tlh. Zona But you1 +1 learn, as ttme goes on and it gets to be a very common thing, you'll learn. But it 1 s still not a na:ce job. HelenA:nn No, I wnu ldn I t, wo uldn I t imagine it would be. Zona But, it 1 s grand, You ,,et all that done and cook up your ,.,eat and make souse ,.,eat and that keeps the winter, us0d to, the wlnters, cold winter, wouldn 1 t do it now. l-Jelen Ann Hh huh. Zona 'Jhe cold wi.nters mamma 1 d have,, biq; ole oans and she'd make them full and the biq; ole pantry in the kitchen, it was cold as blixum. And she'd set this, cove~ it up with a cloth, and set th.is on the shelves io these, and you just go 1.n and cut 1 you a piece anytime you want it. rt s just the best stuff iri the world to eat, Do you like souse meat or ever eat any? David Uh. Helen Ann I d,nt believe I've ever eaten any. David I don t know. Zona You never eat any? David I don t think sso. Bob It's oretty good. I didn't even know what it was when I used to eat it. Zona It was good though, wasn 1 t It? Bob Yeah, my mamma used to keeo it. David Has it got a salty flavor to it? Zona No, no. David oh. Zona It, it 1 s a~ot like sausage, It has the flavor, a little of sausage. Course it s bolled meat instead of fried, David uh huh. Zona Its, it 1 s o;ood. You take the feet and the head and you boil it till its good and tender, you seas @eason} it with sa~fe. and peoners, salt, and you, course you out it in, you know, press it and get the grease, all run ott. You use it while its hot. '1ake it up while it1 s hot and just put it in these oans and oress it and there s enou'?;h, you know, it just congea:j.s together, Helen Ann Uh huh, Zona It 1 s just a cake. It1 s really good, Tom Well, we used to han,;,: sausage up in sacks. Zona I know it. We did too. Not as "lUCh as you did, nt as much as she did. Bob Ya 1 ll grew your own tobacco too, didn t ya? Zona Oh, yes. Tom No, there wasn 1 t no such thtng ... ? .. Zona '!hat s the only th tm,: I evel'.' told "iY daddy Only th1.no; I ever toHI him I W"Uldn1 t do, babe, and worn the tobacco, I says okay. 1'hey c,:row this long;, big as my thu"!b, Belen Ann Uh. Zona I wouldn It do. He said, let's fP '[bese big ole worms. '!hey got a hcirn on each end and big brown soots on 'um. They re tobacco worms. David I've seen 1um Zona You ve David Yes mam. Zona And I d,n 1 t catch a hold to 1 um I said, daddy, I can 1 t do that. um off and you can kill them, with my fingers. r,.y daddy did. I 111 .r,;et "e a stick and knock Helen Ann Ooh, I don t blame you, Zona I can't stand those things. Helen Ann Ole tobacco wo 00ms. Zona We used to Dull, now I clidn' t never oull siuch fodder, but I Dicked cotton and peas and we'd haul fodder uo at ni~ht if it, we went to bed and began to thunder like it was coming up a cloud tn the nic:ht, we had to stack our fodder in the field, We 1 d get uo, bitch to the wagon and go haul our fodder up before the storm cs7e, David What is fodc1er? Zona Eeaves that grows on the co1n stallls. '[he blades. David Oh. Zona You strip it off and tie it in hands. David TTh huh. Zona Bend you a stalk and hook it on there till it cures out. Thei:i y7u go to tie it uo, you take three hands, put together and ta1rn this one and bring it arriund and tie i.t, sticlz it under its band, under the bind on it and you got three hand bundl~. Fodder. Tom '[here's one probably out yonder, n-,w. Zona Your ri;enevati on never heard of fodder, David '[hat, tha t 1 s wby I asked you. What w:mld you use it for? Zona Feed it to the stock, feed it the horses. You'd feed them ten ears of corn and a bundle of fodder, or you, then if, they d1-d it a lot of times, they cut the tops, have corn tops. That s above the ear, you lznow, cut it off with a machete or higbutcher knife. You gather the"1 to a bundle, you take and tie it and out it under the bind and ynu lay it down and let it cu-~e out and you have more feed, I didn 1 t turn that. I turned it too low, didn't J? Ya 1 ll are getting cold, fi~rs, Bailey is soeaking of the gas heater'J Helen Ann I'm just fine. Zona Are you all coilid? Helen Ann No. David No mam, Zona Are y0u Bobby? turn that 0u t, heater~ Bob'iy r;qoney, dt,n 1 t you turn that out, don t you LZona seemed to be a bit nervous of the gas I'm sitting; here in my long johns, Bobhy was not cold, Zona Huh? Oh, Helen Ann You said you farmed, Was there any uh, did you like plan accord, plant your croo according to the moon or anything like that? Zona Any talk such as that? Helen Ann Uh huh, plant your croos, Zona Oh, you I re tall, ing about plan ting by the moon, Helen Ann Uh huh. Zona "Sy the signs. 'lbm Yeah, yeah. Zona Sure, everybody p,JJanted by the signs, Helen Ann What a re the s i 2ns '? What are the signs? Tom '!hat 1 s when you have, you plant anything on the new of the moon, corn esoedially, it would grow tall. Plant on the ful1 of the moon, wouldn't grow ~uch taller than your head. Zona And have full nice ears. It don 1 t do when it Tom ~ And you olant peas and corn (I thin', he meant beans_} when the winds out of the east and you won t 7ake ~any oeas and no corn, no beans. Zona That's not suoerstition. tried. Thats just oure facts, It's been Helen Ann What are some more of thosel Zona Hun, you plant, yous supoose to plant beans when the signs is in the arms or in the secrets, then you have an abundant crop. Helen Ann When the arms are in the sec re ts? Zone By the almanac. Tom Grier's Almanac. Itt I i t got lo ts of sense in it. Real sense. Zona I told our druggest if he didn t keep me, or S:!!Ve me a Gri.er 1s Almanac, I couldn't plant a garden. I just, we always, you have a Grier s Almanac and it has course.., "the signs and times you dig root croos but we didn t pay too much attention to it, we just went when they was ready, dug when it was ready 1 ike po ta toes and turnips and stuff. We used to grow turnips and hill um and potatoes and hill um and out um in the curing house and have um all the year long. Everybody did. Everybody had to grow their stuff to survive like we're going to have to do again. Helen Ann I think we're going to. 1 ' ' .:I. Zona We:re going to have to start, people your age maybe. I told Bobby, I says the day may come when you and Leisha well be out there wondering how you are going to do it, but you'll be trying to milk a cow to get milk, grow a hog for meat. The days a coming when somethings gonna have to be done thats not been done in your generation. Helen Ann Go bao.k to some of the old timey ways? Zona If I could, if I didn't have arthritis so bad I'd, we'd have a cow now, out I know I couldn 1 t milk, I've got arthritis so bad I can't. If I got there and t down on a stool I could never get up. Then I'd still be in a worse fix than, Helen ~.,nn Than having to buy it. Zona Yeah. Tom To cool our milk to drink we had milk cans about this long. Zona Hold three half a gallon cans. Tom Hold three half a gallon cans, put 1um in there and let them down the well a oiece. Don1 t let them down to the water but just let 1um down in there and they stay cool. Zona Only way we had to cool. David Wouldn 1 t spoil. Tom Thats right. Zona Cool the milk. Helen Ann Yeah, Zona Daddy cut a hole in the, we had a pump down here and daddy cut a hole in the floor just big enough for that bucket to go down through se we wouldn't have to move a board or nothing. You put, just put a trap door over that so just, over the top of that hole. And everyday, talk about a chore I didn't like, there wadn 1 t many, but the one I liked least of all, that I always had to was fill uo the oil lamps and wash the chimneys every day, Every evening of the earth. Qi.t this ooint the taoe player ejected as thought it was ready to be flipoed and so 1 did. I did not notice at that time that the tape was orematuril.ly finished on side one, I found later that the tape is faulty and will not p=l,ay the last feet remaining on side one, Side two plays for a few moments and then nothing, I will transcr1be the remaining audi table sentences of slde two :J Zona Here d come the dlil laoios. All had to \,e filled with Ol.L, All the chlfl"'neys took off and washed and I used to despise i.t sometimes. Eelen Ann (I was ~sk ing Zona about so tr'e other house chores and T said to herJ You didn1 t have moos and things what did you use? Zona 'lb clean the floors? Helen Ann T!h huh, just around the house. Zona Oh, that I s lo ts of fun. "' .' -'-' ,1~: _,_ r: .... ---- -: ,-.,~ .,, Zona told me that they used sand to clean the floors. They would ,;et a bucket of sand and sprinkle it around on the wooden floors. Helen Ann And that would clean it? Zona And they said it stayed a week sometimes, whichever. You didn't have so '1UCh to do as long as that sand was there, just walk on it. If you dropoed grease and soaked i.n that board, the sand would rub it off. vou just keep walking on i->; and you take your broom and you s,nooth it about, you knoi,1, move it about everyday. David Wait, I '1issed s010thing, You 1 d take it Relen Ann The sand. David And you set it on the floor and then wallli on it. Zona You scatter it, you just scatter it all over the floor like you would out in the yard. Helen Ann About like the beach I guess. Zona Tha t 1 s right, Tape ends. What a disasterl Why me? The luck of the loUslf calf, to live all winter and die in the spring. This is a saying that my rrother says and I have picked up, She learned it from her mother who is from Greenville, JVississippi. I know of no apoarent re a son why the tape s tooped rota ttng on side one at 630 before the comoletion of that side or why on side tw@ after only a few moments of olaying that the sound ceases to exist. Apoarently I located a faulty tape. I will relay the rest of the conversation to the best of my ability. Zona said that everybody had an ole white mud bucket. You'd go down to the brandh and get the white or grey mud from the bank and out in your bucket to clean the floors with. You would spread th is on the wooden floors and it would dry and sci,ay on there till you put water on it. My estimation of the grea,test loss on side two was of Tom and Zona I s conversation of a serenade. The men would dress in costumes and disguise the"lselves. They would climb on a wagon and go all over the com.,.,unity. By and by the men dranl{ and had a gpod time. These awful ere a ture s would go to all the homes and knock on the door and say, ?... Zona chanted part of what the men would say, The nan of the house would let them in if he chose to. Zona said that her father never refused to. 'They would try to guess who everybody was. Each household would give some bit of food .. like carrots or potatoes or somethli!ng to put in a stew, Everyone was invited to come and eat together. This serenading was at Christmas time. This remem berance 1 ead Zona to remember one Chris tma,s that Tom had some fun and foolishness with what he called a buibl hollar. It was some S) rt of a box with a string to pull that allowed air to go through it and make a sound just like a bull!, Well, it was custom for the Baileys to visit among themselves at Christmas time.. Zona and Tom got in their buggy to visit, with the toy, It so happened that noone was at home. They would have some fun alone. Tom worked the bull holler and Zona rattled some chains. The next day it was all over the com'71uni ty that a big bull had gotten loose and was still dragging his chain. Anothe~ time 'Tum and one of his friends snuck up on a man. 'Tow this man didn 1 t drink alot but it was Christmas and he was having some soirits. He hid his bottle out in an alley with a bunch of old bottles. Tom and his companion surpris8d this man with the bull call. One can imagine thinking he is traooed in an alley with a bull, 'Ibm said the man tore his clothes trying to P-e t over a barrel to get away from the bull,. Tom fe 1 t bad that the man ruined that new suit of clothes because he knew how hard it was to cnme by them. After we tal\fod for a while ore Zona showed us through her house. She and 'Ibm have some valuable old pieces of furniture and other anttques. There are things from days gone by all over the house and ,,ut in the yard in the sheds, There are nine beds in their house. Her father C"lade seve~al of them. He was a blacksmith by trade and obvisouly somewhat of a carpenter. Zona 1s father's blacksmith shop is still the way it was when he died, All the tools are in boxes and unfoutunately they are unidentified. There was one son in thetr family. Zona has chests and toys and tables and various pieces of furniture that her father made, He naturally built on his home after it burned. His initials are on the top of the fireplace on the outside of the house, I am not sure but I believe his name was G. c. Clack. Tom's old s,tove and workshop are stuffed with olunder. A few objects that I recogni 7ed or that were pointed out to 100 are: ah d.ld scqib mop frameJi1 a wp:ea t sweep, rabbit box, an old wagon, that old no longer red road cart, butter molds, churns, kerosine lamps, door latches made from buggy hitches, some of r1r, Clack s blacks"'li th tool-s, and early gas pump and the engine that he used. As we were walking outside Tom pointed He said the only th inc,; he knew of that to tell if your girlfriend loved you. you bend the plant in the direct ion of grows then she loves you. out a Mullen olant. it was good for was To tell if she does her house and if it I asked Zona what were some of her favorite receiots, She said that *he didn't use receipts but used a cinch of this or a pour of that. During our talk I heard two phrases by .Zona. She was speaking of someone very close and she said that he was c16se as skin. The other saying concerned something that was dark in color. Zona said that it was smoaked black as a coal. 0 A brief layout of their house and yard is as follows: ... .... ._ ___ c=::j --- I -1.- 1 1,;a,i' 1 I could visualize how this area must have looked eighty years or so ago. It is quite lovely today. Jt seems to be one of an increasing{1few 0laces where you can be and not see any of the modern buildings and orogress, I enjoy that, It was a bright Autum day when we visited with 'Ibm and Zona. 'Ihe changing leaves adned even more of a rustic loo!{ to the place, I truly enjoyed this day and learned so very much, I al "1.0S t felt a bit envious and yet a bi.t sad. I feel good about '[b,n and Zona who are such basically gpod peoole and they are still so much in love. What saddens me is that the good.ale <lays are P:one. 'Ihe easy days, as far as uncomplication have escapeod Americans today. 'They have been lost in all the hustle and bustle. One remark that I distinctly remember Tom making was that they, had n1ore fun back then than we do today, n I have only talked with two people so far, but both have 111Bntioned that they prefer the old days and ways to today. I have hope. I can not doubt that with the way thi.hgs are depleattng that people will have :bo slow down and take life a bit !!:lower, a111d return to 1ore practical means of living. If we don t slow down we will run out, 'Ibm and Zona are such real oeople. I believe that the:7 enjoyed Ds.vid and I almost as much as WE). enjoyed them. Before we Jrnew it it was late in the afternoon and we had to he getting on back to Atlanta. Tom said f'or us not to run of'f. We had been there for aonroximately f'ive hours. We clan to visit with'. the t1aileys again. I thnui;,:.ht that perhaps Zona would not have heen so nervous lf' she only knew that the second side of the tape d:tqinl t take, then on the othec hand, oerhaps she feels a bit easier about being recorded. I feel that thts type of' data collecting was a very worthwhile project, Besides collecting the valuable ~aterial concerning the life of days gone by it develops relati.onSJhiLps with others of different hackgrounds and "b:tl'oadens ones horizci.ns.'' I hope to continue to w.rap with elderly penole and perhaps record (and transcribe) the conversations. I enjoy spending "'IY free time in this manner. l''Y friend, David Keller, asked me if we could d0 sonie rrore gathering. ~ .;-lib:I iJ) ~ f:Jc.a ..f) ~ /t,{)1 ~ ~ '1) (i~ 'fr; filKl, ~ ~- ~ ~ ~ w ~) U-4. ~.LA(L) ty>U.- 1 t1w ~ 6-f..; ~ j ;c;ld 1 ~- ~:ts CL~~ I) Oi-'1f.l~~ w '4,~~ ~~~~- ~~ lulb-v, llJ ~ i ~ iu--to ~ ~ nui ......,,,...... KA,.,''KJJI ~ ~ tu~S r ~ kut> ~ was ~ ~ ~ /4)~ ~ ~ R, o....uv . ~, -Ji,.I( ~ ./-, nu4 a__, ~ru.~o-.J.~ wos ~~/Jrl,__ ~~~~~-lo~~~~ ~ ~ 4o -h..!t u)~ ~ A,~~ -h~ ~ 4 ~~. lk.-M~~ ~- ~~ A PDF transcript exists for this recording. Please contact an archivist for access. Professor John Burrison founded the Atlanta Folklore Archive Project in 1967 at Georgia State University. He trained undergraduates and graduate students enrolled in his folklore curriculum to conduct oral history interviews. Students interviewed men, women, and children of various demographics in Georgia and across the southeast on crafts, storytelling, music, religion, rural life, and traditions. As archivists, we acknowledge our role as stewards of information, which places us in a position to choose how individuals and organizations are represented and described in our archives. We are not neutral, and bias is reflected in our descriptions, which may not convey the racist or offensive aspects of collection materials accurately. Archivists make mistakes and might use poor judgment. We often re-use language used by the former owners and creators, which provides context but also includes bias and prejudices of the time it was created. Additionally, our work to use reparative language where Library of Congress subject terms are inaccurate and obsolete is ongoing. Kenan Research Center welcomes feedback and questions regarding our archival descriptions. If you encounter harmful, offensive, or insensitive terminology or description please let us know by emailing reference@atlantahistorycenter.com. Your comments are essential to our work to create inclusive and thoughtful description.