Linda McNelley interview with Norman Smith

The John Burrison Georgia Folklore Archive recordings contains unedited versions of all interviews. Some material may contain descriptions of violence, offensive language, or negative stereotypes reflecting the culture or language of a particular period or place. There are instances of racist language and description, particularly in regards to African Americans. These items are presented as part of the historical record. This project is a repository for the stories, accounts, and memories of those who chose to share their experiences for educational purposes. The viewpoints expressed in this project do not necessarily represent the viewpoints of the Atlanta History Center or any of its officers, agents, employees, or volunteers. The Atlanta History Center makes no warranty as to the accuracy or completeness of any information contained in the interviews and expressly disclaims any liability therefore. If you believe you are the copyright holder of any of the content published in this collection and do not want it publicly available, please contact the Kenan Research Center at the Atlanta History Center at 404-814-4040 or reference@atlantahistorycenter.com. This recording begins with Norman Smith, a potter who sells handmade crock pots and other functional pieces, reminiscing about his father and grandfather introducing him to pottery when he was 17 in Lawley, Alabama. Later, Smith sold his pottery in Birmingham, Alabama, and across Georgia, transporting his work via mule and wagon until he bought a Model T truck in the mid 1920s. Next, at minute 4:52, Smith explains how he creates the pottery. He digs up the clay, grinds it in a mud mill, makes ash glaze, and fires the pottery. In addition, he reminisces about building kilns with his father. Then, at minute 18:31, Smith discusses the kick wheel and electric pottery wheels he uses. While demonstrating how to use a pottery wheel at minute 21:40, Smith describes how to prepare wood for the kiln and fire pottery. Then, at minute 27:44, he provides details about his 52 years of experience as a potter, his business, and his work routine. Smith also explains that his technique and style have remained unchanged, and that he prices his pieces reasonably between $0.50 to $4. He then compares his work to the other local potters. To conclude the interview, at minute 43:44, Norman Smith discusses the log buildings and mud mill that he built where he sculpts pottery and runs his business. Last, he describes the final and biggest kiln he built in the late 1950s. Norman Smith (1904-1990) was born in Lawley, Alabama, to Elbert Bryant Smith (1876-1954) and Mattie Lovelady (1883-1918). He worked as a potter, selling handmade crock pots and other functional pieces. He married Irene S. Smith (1920-1984) and they had five children: Norman Wade (1945-1945), Mary Ruth Cash (1941- ), Shirley Freeman (1952- ), Patricia Merchant, and Linda Griffin. Additional biographical information has not been determined. Speaker 1 (00:04): Yeah, Speaker 2 (00:04): Trying to record it now. It's working. See it's received. Okay. Well I got started off making pot. My dad made a bar and a saucer one time. Put it in the stove. I was about 10 years old. Think I'm talking loud enough to Speaker 1 (00:18): Do that? Yes sir. I think it's Speaker 2 (00:20): Working. Maybe you can tape out some of it. Then my mother died in 1918 and then my step granddad had worked around the potter got me my dad interested, then I got a wheel put up and I followed. Then I was about 14 years old then, but I went on a year, no, I was 17 when I got started. Didn't here making pottery and we finally put up an old log building, worked in that a while and kept on making my pottery and from that I got started all making pottery. I was born and raised back over on about four miles in the wood during that time. But then I moved over here in 32 and put up my business here and I've been at Pottery Mac ever since, was 1921. Speaker 1 (01:11): So you just born around? Speaker 2 (01:13): Born and raised in this community, born around there and I get myself mixed up. I don't know what to say and after getting over here I made wine and I hauled it off and pedaled it but I sold a many pieces pot of it for a nickel gallon. Speaker 1 (01:32): Where did you usually haul it? To? Sell it Speaker 2 (01:34): To Birmingham and bowed over the community sometime over in Georgia and in one place to another. But Speaker 1 (01:42): How'd you haul it? Speaker 2 (01:43): A muled and wagon. A while wagon. That was in 1920 and 23 and finally bought an old 23 model eight truck model T truck and we'd put tires on it was asked about when the bulk tires paid a hundred dollars for a two tires and to get off and they would bust them sometimes the first load and then put, couldn't hold about three or 400 gallon put about 800 pounds, a thousand pounds on knife was a load of money. Two like 10 days and we followed in that. Then finally got off the mules and wagon. That's what we done there. And then my brother took it and peed Birmingham, wore corns all over his hand peed. I make two kills a week and he'd pad it if I make two trips to Birmingham but two kills or whatever, about 12 14 million drive, he'd take it up there and sell it cheap. He'd sell it anything, get out of there and start at home. He wore blisters on his hands where he drive that truck but that little off making powder but it's still selling pot back in them times. We used things y'all may won't never see them hire attack. We went with Birmingham a few times in our life long year at this time of year and where you wouldn't get enough to pay a gas bill up, burn back. Speaker 1 (03:11): How about, how far is it? Speaker 2 (03:12): It's about 80 miles. 60 to 80 miles Speaker 1 (03:17): Did you say that used to be your grocery store right Speaker 2 (03:19): Over Yeah, we run a old grocery store there. I did a while around two and a half years I lost more time missing that and I did make Speaker 1 (03:28): Pottery. Did you sell pottery there too? Speaker 2 (03:30): Oh I sold pottery here all the time during that time the grocery store. But I just put that up trying about the time the road was put in here but I didn't, wasn't hardly into the pottery line. I was just trying go down and sell a person, drink and drink one cell and lose 30 minutes. Yeah, I wasn't getting much profit. Speaker 1 (03:53): Did a lot of people come to you, your neighbors and all to buy your pots from Speaker 2 (03:56): Yeah, they come anywhere from California to Washington, Maryland down. Speaker 1 (04:02): Who buys it mostly now? Is it mostly tourists or people that use Speaker 2 (04:05): It? Well mostly people around here buy sometimes resale and people around near Birmingham and Salmon, Alabama where I sold the most people and see, I dunno with Dick our clay back over yarn in the woods now I drop back on that and may get scattered where you never will get straight back over yarn in the woods when haul here on trucks and things haul our wood to burn it with about 35 miles now from here and bring it here and cut it up. Burn only with slab wood and clay. We get that over, get back onto that. Do Speaker 1 (04:50): You usually dig it yourself? Speaker 2 (04:52): Yeah, I dig it all myself now this too low. I had to hard two loads but they don't kind of continue use now it's cracking pretty bad but it's pretty clear and I dug it and me and I have hard one hand a while, just me and my wife and worked with all the time. I lived at too many folks but we'd haul it here and grind it in the mud mill there. The mud mill. What we used to grind it up most places time we use a pug meal to get all the di out of it. I work my own balls and I know yeah I'd have to ask some questions and me to keep myself straightened out. Speaker 1 (05:38): Okay. How much clay do you usually pug up in your meal at one time Speaker 2 (05:44): About enough to make 250, about 2000 pounds enough to burn grind, I mean turned about 250 gallons out of a meal. Speaker 1 (05:54): Where do you store it? Do you store Speaker 2 (05:56): It there? Just store it back in the and pile it up but it will get hard if it don't keep covered up it'll dry out. Not like moisture oil or something like art clay, I mean children's clay there in school and hitters keep over. I keep it month at a time and I built here and if you holler is too much water, I'd rather build on a hill and haul more water and be where it's too much water cause it won't dry out unless I had dry kes and I don't use dry kell. Speaker 1 (06:30): What's a dry keel? That's Speaker 2 (06:31): Thing keep sharp, hot and dry of course little old K in there. It'll heat up pretty good drying wire in the wintertime but outside of that of course then when I turned worked my balls up and I turned it down on the wheel then I take it out here and put it in the sun like I how these jars let 'em dry and got started and I get it dry. I how glazing in these tubs here and I dip my stuff in there to glaze. All the stuff is not used for fly stuff unless it's VAEs. I glaze in, I glaze every bit of my stuff before it goes into the kil. Speaker 1 (07:27): Mostly Albany slip. Glaze? Yeah Speaker 2 (07:29): I use allmond slip. Speaker 1 (07:30): Do you ever use any ash glaze? Speaker 2 (07:33): No I haven't. I used to use it but back then we made a lot of ash glazes way back. Speaker 1 (07:39): How'd you make it? Speaker 2 (07:41): I Speaker 1 (07:41): Don't. How'd you make Speaker 2 (07:42): It? It just strain Ashe way people here in this country when you use ash glas, it used to make a lot of live soap and they had to drip them ashes lie out of ashes and then when they get the live ashes in, they'd let 'em sit down that'd let the ashes decay and get the lie out and you'll go ahead and restrain and restrain that time or two to get the damn to find enough for the glazing. I have had my arms eat up there using lie. There's too much lie in it but that's the way to make your as glaze, get some ashes. You can strain it up, don't have to go through the other but the good part about putting it up and letting it rot, it'll do a lot better and then massage out to get the lie out of it all ashes got lie in and the lie ain't no benefit for the potters I know of. Speaker 1 (08:35): What do you mix with the ashes after that? Speaker 2 (08:38): Well back then we didn't use none but regular just Speaker 1 (08:42): Ashes, Speaker 2 (08:43): Ashes long. But you can mix whiting with it and you can to make it a mel pretty good that way and you can mix a little clear with it and stuff like that. But ashes right, we just use pure old Speaker 1 (08:55): Ashes. What color does it come out Speaker 2 (08:57): So well it depends on the clay. We have had a pretty white glaze and ashes but then it was one of the yellow cream color ashes and we have used lime and bell. We mill it but I don't mill it now but back when he was home we just take line work, heat up. He'd got a lot of line in too of course but have to get dripped out and you can use it from Speaker 1 (09:25): Where'd he get your Albany slip from? Speaker 2 (09:31): Call it up there in Pennsylvania. Virginia, Pennsylvania or standing ceramic company. Speaker 1 (09:38): They just ship it down here to you? Yeah, Speaker 2 (09:40): I have to order it and it costs last month there's a place in North Carolina now you can get it if you can find out there's a place where prepare your plate and stuff but I don't know. I got my lu misplaced and I can't find it. It costs you 10 cents a pound now but slipped Of course it's already been Ed and screened it not just in lumps. I have it used to we get in barrels and things. Speaker 1 (10:11): How much do you usually order at a time? Speaker 2 (10:14): Well I've ordered as much as 3000 pounds. I don't have to order. Speaker 1 (10:18): Will that last you a good while? Speaker 2 (10:19): Yeah, it'll last me two or three years. Speaker 1 (10:23): I noticed inside you kill that the glaze is all on the inside of the walls. What makes that happen? Speaker 2 (10:29): Just heating that stuff so much. The brick Mel and it'll just contain the melting and ashes flies all up in there too and it gets on it because all my pottery got ashes on it but you can pick the wood while I use on the wood to burn wheel that helps out. But I never managed to bring up to burn 'em with gas. Never did put up his kil. I got several gas burner rules but I don't know, it just won't get as hot as wood. Wood gets hot. Speaker 1 (10:57): Did you just learn about building the kils from your dad? Speaker 2 (11:00): Well yes, more or less. He didn't know about it neither but I went to work at it when I was 16, 17 years old and building Ks till I learned it up. I built a lot of Ks fell in on me but this around him and my brother hit me with head and he took the plane of pain. He down but it's going to Gil Dan. Speaker 1 (11:25): Is he a potter too? Your brother? Speaker 2 (11:27): Well I did have one brother potter and turn pretty good. I saw him last time. He and my half brother wanted to be able to kill but I got one in California making pottery in now and he'd doing pretty good. He'd burned him the ca I believe he was blowing it in and I haven't heard from him so he's doing good business. Ask me questions. Speaker 1 (11:57): Where'd you get your bricks that you used for your kill? Speaker 2 (12:00): These I seconding used brick. What I got these, well I got some of those and they just common brick but right in front I have far brick. I got them where old brick kils was somewhere a used brick. I never did have to buy a new brick, which I bought a lot of new brick for the top of the kil and had burnt out and I'd cave in. I have to buy one brick. Speaker 1 (12:25): What a used for the mortar in between it Speaker 2 (12:27): Just a regular old dob red dirt or something. That's good enough because you're just buying clay don't much more between it. No way now like putting up a house, something even mortar, just dip your brick in more. Speaker 1 (12:48): How long does it usually take to fire it? To Speaker 2 (12:51): Burn it? About 16 hours. Speaker 1 (12:53): How do you know when it's done? Speaker 2 (12:55): Well we got rid of ring test pieces, we pull them out and the glazing mouth and that Speaker 1 (13:02): Is that those little pieces I see out there with the holes, Speaker 2 (13:04): Little holes run a rod through the back of the kil kil get about two, about 2,500 degree in front and the back of the kil don't run about 18 1900 only the way I go by what the almond slip mill had it mills 22, 22 50 and I hardly this KI used to melt it from in the back of white, white glaze a little harder than melt which hit is made from fell spa, zinc of oxide and white in common clay and of course flint sometime used in it but I never did use flint and believe that's about all of that. But the glaze is made from all and slip what I'm using now. But you can use that other and I reckon I can give you the recipe off what I'm using but Speaker 1 (13:57): Yeah I'd like that. Speaker 2 (13:58): Yeah that'd be all and I can give it to you of course. I don't dunno why I could tell you whether it pick car to pick it up right or not. I have to think a little bit. Otherwise in the white glazing one I used in the fell spa 50 pound spa and zinc eight seven pounds and whining whitening clay six pounds and for whining about three pounds. That's really my recipe for making a white blade. Speaker 1 (14:33): Just mix enough water with it till it, Speaker 2 (14:35): Yeah you get thick enough you just want it to stain on dip the finger fingering pretty good test of course you can got a special scale for liquid glazing. Might always know that but you can dip it in and weigh it that way. But I never did use it. I got Speaker 1 (14:54): No I've never heard of that. Speaker 2 (14:57): When I say for that, just so you hide your finger, dip your piece of powder in and stick on, you can sort scratch it and be about thickening your fingernail or something that'd give it. Put a good test for alae and go ahead and ask your question. Speaker 1 (15:13): Well lemme think here. I had something I was thinking of. Do you have to just keep putting that wood in there the whole time to keep that fire going? Speaker 2 (15:22): We fired about every three, five minutes. Have to stay with it. Got away when it first started off we started off slow, about six, eight hours, maybe 10 hours. Get the smut burn off and the pottery then you can put a lot in it but every four or five minutes you got the fire up cause the wood burn down pretty fast. When gets up around 1500, 2000 degree it burns out pretty fast. Speaker 1 (15:49): About how much wood does it take? Speaker 2 (15:51): I'm using about four cars in the K I'm using. Well the only thing it costs me is a dollar for the lower wood and going after gas but time I called and the thing altogether it cost me around 50, $60 to kill. To burn a killer wire. I count my time $10 a day and that's around about $56 because I got to cutting my wood up right then I got to G wood dry, I got throw it off and eat About run out. Speaker 1 (16:27): No sir, we got plenty left. Got to keep checking on it though because I'm not used to it either. About how often do you burn a kill now? Speaker 2 (16:36): Once a month all that. I used to have burn two kills a month, two kills a week long one time had a little smaller kill and I had one boy that hit me but he never did learn nothing. He was just a tight, just couldn't do nothing. Knowing what you told him. Always talk about colored people. Didn't know anything. He's one of them. He's a white boy man. But he just couldn't learn. I don't know what I'd tell him. Speaker 1 (17:03): Well do you have anybody in your family that wants to help you along with your pottery? Speaker 2 (17:09): Don't I ain't got nothing but four girls and be son-in-Law. I don't know. They said well my son-in-Law out here said will the mother over here talk about trying to learn turn but I don't know I just won't get down after Speaker 1 (17:21): They never have learned how. No, Speaker 2 (17:24): He'll do pretty good but he's in cattle building paper mill work and then first one thing another takes up that time you don't have time. He got into chair business and things like Speaker 1 (17:41): That. Oh he makes chairs? Yeah Speaker 2 (17:43): He'd make a rocking chair. Is it the one up here on here? No he right over here. That's a different different. They started off about the same time. He's still max over that pretty rock show. It cost you about $60 Speaker 1 (17:56): And we wondered how much they cost. We saw the sign. I didn't see any chairs out though. Just no, Speaker 2 (18:01): He lived way back down on the ridge down. You happened to drive way down there and see his place and even I now he's just living to be an old bachelor so far a young man but he studied farming cow business himself too. But cattle business been something lately. Bought any beef. That's Speaker 1 (18:24): The truth. I don't get to buy too much, I'll tell you. Well what about your wheels? Did you build your wheels yourself? Speaker 2 (18:31): No I had that in made back when things were cheap. Cost $150. That's my electric wheel and my first kick wheel I ever had. My dad had two but another old pottery removed this country had died, couldn't cross die, didn't make pottery regular and I finally, after he died I bought it from his wife later on. Cheap kick wheel. But of course I wouldn't take any price for it now myself. I turned on it for and wheel, I had to work on overhaul in a while. I got a good wheel on. Now everybody's ever turning was the best they ever seen is heavy though. Speaker 1 (19:22): Who made it for you? Somebody around here that you know Speaker 2 (19:24): Was machine shop was a machine shop and the side frictions where want build one, build a friction 10 inches in the disk that don't have to be so big. About 10 inches of head to be all. Then the shaft knows you ever get ready to build one go in machine shop, be one but you can pick up on pieces and get it built. What it wouldn't cost you in at the ceramic place run about $300. Speaker 1 (20:05): Yeah, they're pretty expensive. He built me one but it's just a kick wheel. Speaker 2 (20:09): That kick wheel all on Speaker 3 (20:16): I if I think the next one would be electric. Speaker 2 (20:20): Electric, Speaker 3 (20:21): I think I'd build that easier. I can Speaker 2 (20:25): You can put them right and fix arm rest. Sort of stand up straight that works up to get the lump worked out and spots. I said come on up close. You want record it? Y'all do talking. Come on up here. I don't have to have a line on. We've seen him. Mark's got to be as close as Yeah, get up there so you can see. Good. You're so short in front. Right. Come right around in good place time y'all. Y'all ask the question when I'll answer the rest of 'em, ask the questions. Let's see. See I might stand that way. Move on up here if y'all, I got some girls around a ball up they just go. I got one in Taiwan come in for. I used to think I didn't eat all of my fingers but because decided later on I eat everything up there. I use about eight pound wood in a gallon, 25 to 30 pounds, five gallon. Now this is the way I make my wife shut 'em out. Just easy. I shut it. You don't please do. Ain't no sentence. She didn't shut up. You don't never use your stuff around that's inside of it. I to it back and grind it over. It be drying over all just slipped off, Speaker 4 (25:07): Cut Speaker 2 (25:08): Across the bottom, get this off so I can hold to that handle. Which did I put the handle on? Ask you before didn't Speaker 4 (25:43): Fingers are strong. Speaker 2 (25:53): Most I turn this and put it back the next day and a lot better. That's a want. I don't, Speaker 4 (26:31): That's all Speaker 2 (26:32): You want. Try one now. Otherwise if that jug gets dry now though, of course that might not have got a little thin in there after that gets dry you can step on it straight that a joke a whole year towards fire. Of course it's far Speaker 5 (26:49): Now you leave it in the kill. How long? Speaker 2 (26:52): Five. Well staying there about four or five days altogether. But fire during the fire is about 16 hours. Speaker 5 (26:59): It takes you pretty good while to get the fire ready for this stuff, doesn't it? Speaker 2 (27:02): Yeah cause it takes me a couple of days to get, well it take me three days to getting wood but if it is already dry I hold it here then I take me two days to cut it, then it take me two days to stack it in kill. Then it takes me one day to warm me up. I'd get all the steam up and the next day I fall I get up about two o'clock and come out here and fall until I get through weeks. Sometime I get a little early and sometime a little later it's around 16 hours of he ask a few questions, get what you want. Speaker 1 (27:42): How long did you say you've been making your pottery? Speaker 2 (27:44): 52 years started when I was 16 I reckon say or 17. I would say 17. I was really making pottery and I've been at ever since and I've been over here on this side of the creek ever since 1932 and started in 21. Speaker 1 (28:05): About how much time a day do you spend on making your pots? Speaker 2 (28:09): Oh, I used to get work 12, 16 hours a day, but I've got it down now about eight hours. About all I get in maybe 10, 12 some days. Burning day, of course that's 16 hours and it runs about anywhere in 10, 12 hours a day. Speaker 1 (28:23): Do you kind of gauge it where you throw one day and glaze another day or do you just do your work as it's necessary? Speaker 2 (28:30): Getting a kill made, I make one style and stuff one day and on that style of pot try to otherwise get a certain amount made all during the day and so after I, well I'd do it and maybe when I glaze in I get a whole kil made then I'd stop and glaze it and get dry off. Speaker 1 (28:54): What do you think is most popular? What do you think people like to buy the most? Speaker 2 (28:57): I don't know anything. Made out a cle cell and got a glaze on it. Y'all here, down there y'all was always just to go ahead. Okay, you ask me something. Speaker 1 (29:10): Let's see. How have your techniques changed with modern times? What's made things different from how you used to make your pottery? Speaker 2 (29:20): Well I don't know if there's any different in mine. I'm still an old pottery way and old style way burned. My stuff is old style I reading people buying mine's off. Some of it's pretty rough but people want it cause it's rough. Make it look like you can buy here. Glaze mix, pot wash clay and stuff most anywhere, but mine is still the old kind of making pottery can wipe the mounds off, keep 'em sticking and put the bottom, stack it up just like this. I got here in the ke, have to keep them sticking. Speaker 1 (29:53): Do you just wipe that glaze off of the bottoms when it's wet so they won't Speaker 2 (29:56): Stick together? Well I just take it and don't have to dump 'em in. I roll it in away and let it get on the bottom, put the mouth in. I got to take a sponge and wipe the mouth while it's still wet. Of course mugs and things. I take a little scraping and scrape that. Speaker 1 (30:11): So you just stack it all in there. You don't have any shelves that go inside? No, I Speaker 2 (30:14): Don't have no shells. I thought about buying shell but I'll take any little chair and I'll use a little s still to separate it. Put in there. Speaker 1 (30:23): What's that rod made out of that you put your rings on for your test pieces? Speaker 2 (30:27): It just lay 'em in there and I use that rod and reach in. I got Speaker 1 (30:39): Let that run for just a few minutes. Get on there. Good. Okay. I'd like for you to tell me what your full name is and your birthdate if you don't mind mind. Speaker 2 (30:48): Normand e smith at lolly Alabama birthday. That's what you just wanting to ask now. I'm going to start over again. If there was about Normy e Smith born March nineteen, four sixty nine. Now they can see there might be a ramble up tape, wouldn't it? Speaker 1 (31:12): Yeah, well that won't matter. Speaker 2 (31:13): No, I guess not. Speaker 1 (31:15): Okay. Are there a lot of hotters in this area? Speaker 2 (31:18): There's just two more. Speaker 1 (31:19): Did they make kind of the same kind of work that you Speaker 2 (31:21): Did? Well they make big chains and crocs and flower pots. Mostly what they're making and they the bigger stuff altogether fool, just little stuff like I do. Speaker 1 (31:33): Do they have the same type of kills or they weren't kind Speaker 2 (31:35): The same? Yeah sort the same type of kill. One of 'em got a gas killer altogether and one of 'em got the gas kill altogether and the other burning gas and wood. But they make a pretty glaze. They're using the same glaze I am but they're making a pretty glaze Speaker 1 (31:54): When you fire your things, you just put that Albany slip glaze on the pots that are raw like this and it just fired one time. Speaker 2 (32:00): It's not a serenity. I just put it on there one time. It Mels. Do all of it together. Speaker 1 (32:05): How'd you get interested in making these little pig pots? Speaker 2 (32:09): I don't know. Just a crazy idea I had and got a started off. Thought I'd make a cookie, John. From that people begin to see 'em. They like 'em so well. I'll make a few all along. I've sold many of 'em 50 cents a piece, but that was just too cheap when I'm making them. Then Speaker 1 (32:26): Somebody else coming. Yeah. Let me ask you another question right quick before you go to see them. What do you think about some of the pottery today? The art pottery, like the stuff that Charles cans does and ceramic. I Speaker 2 (32:39): Know it's all right but it's still not the old time potter, but he makes a good battery all Speaker 1 (32:47): I believe a lot of his things aren't quite as useful as yours. I don't think that his things are as useful Speaker 2 (32:53): As your things. No, I think none. He charged her and he's out making money like his book. Speaker 1 (32:58): Yeah. Okay. Well you better go see about those people. Well I was going to ask you, how long has it been since they put the road in out here? Speaker 2 (33:08): It been about 10 years. I had a wooden road, dirt road here. Couldn't get away from home without bogging up. Get down here and swamping a bog up. But it's been about 10 years since the pave that road and it's been some help, A lot of help for I can say a lot of help to me. But big customers come when there wasn't old summer people left to get out and there's dirt road right around there, Speaker 1 (33:34): But mostly you just sell your stuff right here on the site. Now you don't have to Speaker 2 (33:37): Colonize or anything. I have, it's been a little over 10 years. It's been about 12 years since I put the road in and maybe a little longer than that cause I've been staying at home. I ain't been to Birmingham nowhere. None in 10 years, so never been on the yard. Speaker 1 (33:51): Do you ever do any casting work down there? Is that your stuff that was casting? Speaker 2 (33:57): Oh no. Yeah, casting. I do some of it but that up this side I buy that concrete and painting, but the other, I do that work. That's the only time it's concrete and I used to do some casting, no outer clay but way I had my mold and thing. It was too slow for me. Speaker 1 (34:18): What kind of things did you make? Speaker 2 (34:19): I made bulldogs and chickens and some VAEs. Of course I patted up for another thought but it didn't last too long. I quit for you caught me. Speaker 1 (34:31): Oh you did? Yeah. You don't sign your name on too many pots do you? Speaker 2 (34:36): Don't what Speaker 1 (34:37): Sign your name? No. Speaker 2 (34:38): You keep wanting me sign, sign your name. But I got a rubber mow. I could stamp on that as I do it at the right time. If you don't do it at the right time it won't stamp and I could use a COBOL and print it on there, but I just haven't got started. Thought about trying to fix it up today to take a COBOL and then with it and just stamp it on the bottom on that and back on that and do that pretty fast. Now I may get at it. I would like to put my name. If I had my names on all I ever made, I'd have had it pretty well advertised. Speaker 1 (35:15): That's what I was going to ask you too about how do people find out about you just because you've been here for so long? Speaker 2 (35:19): Yeah, that that's one thing and just being on the road and one person tells the other felt like each stro John, so people got to use them for flowers and what the other person see, they see it and they do the advertising for Speaker 1 (35:38): Somebody else coming. Speaker 2 (35:40): Yeah, want him to see me drinking. Speaker 1 (35:46): Want to put it up. Have you ever exhibited any of your work at fairs? Speaker 2 (35:52): Yeah, me a dog at work. Speaker 1 (35:55): At any kind of fair or Speaker 2 (35:57): No, I never Speaker 1 (35:57): Did anything like that. Speaker 2 (35:58): Never did? Yes. No. There used to be a place up here in Horseshoe Penn, 40 over in Alabama, big store. They wanted to bring it up time. I used sell it here fast, I can get to it. I just never took time and got away and quit driving. Speaker 1 (36:18): How did you use to measure your clay before you had your scales in there? Speaker 2 (36:22): Oh, I've always used scales. Speaker 1 (36:24): Oh, you always have. Do you measure it by the size crock it'll make, is that how you Yeah, Speaker 2 (36:30): Pounds to it to make it uniform sometimes I don't make them care about making one side one. Atlanta. This is my wife. They had one called you yesterday morning. Speaker 1 (36:41): I hope I didn't scare you when I called. Oh no. I just wanted to make sure you'd be home. Since we'd never been to Alabama before and we wanted to check everything Speaker 2 (36:50): Out before she called talk a little morning you'd be on a, Speaker 1 (36:53): Oh no, Speaker 2 (36:53): Not me, it done. Got you. Now Speaker 1 (37:01): Did you ever do any sock glaze? Speaker 2 (37:03): No, I didn't do any of the sola. Not lately. I used to do it years ago and I made an as glaze and stuff like that. But most of the time ever since I've been all been slip. Speaker 1 (37:20): Could you explain to me a little bit about your kill? About how the heat flows through it and how the chimney is, how it's constructed? Just a little bit about that. Speaker 2 (37:29): Well you got dry hole down front, but you got the slow far begin on and got where the burn up and you'd add to it wood and as you get hot you got the watch. You see when the SSM burns off, it goes on through the kil and you can tell when the smut burn over, I just leave a little door in front and when the smu, it'll burn off in front just quick as wheel back and if you ever put the blaze on it too quick, it busted. I adding that tree, them churn, then bust it up like sometimes wood you throw on a little bit, it'll flash up and burn. Speaker 1 (38:14): What's your price range from your littlest pot to your biggest pot? Just about, Speaker 2 (38:19): Well I've got right now 50 cents up to about 40. I don't make too expensive. I just only the bigger stuff I need all this little stuff. Much trouble to make is a bigger piece. Little over my fingers to, but they have 50 cents too and it runs from 50 cents. Speaker 1 (38:41): It's harder for me to send her a little tiny piece than it is a little bit bigger piece. Speaker 2 (38:47): A bunch of trouble at the time. And of course in big pots and paying a big chunk, I get $4 on them. That's the most I get out of. I just work to make a living. That's the reason I have to work so hard. Speaker 1 (39:01): Where do he get your water? Do you use the water from your little stream there? Speaker 2 (39:04): No, I use water from the spr. Use a lot of water in the middle of the mud. When I grind the mill of mud it takes about so 50 gallons to a mill that were grind a mill of mud about do make 250 gallons of pottery Speaker 1 (39:25): In that. Do you sell your big crocs by the gallon now? Speaker 2 (39:30): Well more or less by the piece. God, why don't sell anything? I'll numb them sometimes Somebody said there gallons won't hold 'em iron. I said they're just a al. I didn't say gallons. Speaker 1 (39:43): When you first started making pottery, did people buy your crocs to keep the food in, to preserve food and keep milk and stuff Speaker 2 (39:50): Like that in? Yeah, all together. All together. Use right back when people had to work at home, make a living at home and they'd skimm milk in them, put milk in them, skim it, sell the cream and they use that milk and to feed the hogs on them. Cream they'd preserve and put stuff away and some of 'em used salt meat and stuff. Speaker 1 (40:13): What was the most popular size for putting up food? Speaker 2 (40:17): We anywhere five, six and eight and 10 gallons. Speaker 1 (40:20): Vegetables. They do a lot of pickling and vegetables and stuff like that? Yeah, Speaker 2 (40:24): Anywhere of course. Anywhere. Two or three gallons. Pretty good. Pickling and stuff. Speaker 1 (40:31): Well what can you think of Bill? You get that wood just from the sawmill. Just go out to the sawmill and get that Speaker 2 (40:40): And I got to haul it here and let it dry. Then when I get it dry I got to cut it up in, I throw it all in it got the dry, cut it up and remove it to the kil. Then I got to take a day off farm. If I could get where I could burn my gas, I could make enough exit to pay for the gas. Speaker 1 (41:04): What kind of wood is it? Just any Speaker 2 (41:05): Kind. Just any dry wood. Of course. I don't like oaks. Huh. And hicks, if I had pine slab it would cut and busted. But paper mill pay so much of that that the best kind of wood is pine wood. People wouldn't cut it for me if any dry woods. Those was all right. Speaker 3 (41:29): On your mud mill, what kind of wood do you use for the shaft and all that? I noticed that you had one broke over there. Speaker 2 (41:35): Yeah, that's what they call a tube gun. Gun pole. That's the only thing it won to split hit. Hang on another. It don't last for one year we got put up one a year. Really? You can get it where well get metal and put up power mill but I never did do it. I was tired a few times and quit. But I like that well enough. I guess I put up four or five more. I may put up 48 more if I left other 48. Yeah, Speaker 1 (42:08): Another 48. Yeah. Well I noticed that. Did you get a pretty wide, well not really a wide range but different colors on y'all when you slip out there, some of it's a lot more brown and some of it's a little bit more Speaker 2 (42:23): That's the heat. The heat. That's what did not like a round ke contained burning kill like I have up north but sometime that continued burning up north. They have different colors of glazed too. It don't get as hot but them containing K needs too wide. They can might keep it hot where they keep it hot all the time, see push it in and one end come out. The other might kill. You just got to stack it up that what makes the range Some gets hotter in the other. Speaker 1 (42:56): What'd you call that kill? They Speaker 2 (42:57): Use a continued burning kill up where these big pot is. They go far go in one end or glaze go in one end it got a thing that pressure through there and when it get the middle it kill, get the right temperature. Then as it go on out it goes to cool and off and when it get to the end it's cool off Speaker 1 (43:16): Enough. Is that like in production pottery and where they really make a lot of it. Speaker 2 (43:21): That's right. Work night and day and bulk. Yeah. Keep it going hard enough hand cost them something to put up a pottery like that though. Speaker 1 (43:29): Yeah, I guess it does. Speaker 6 (43:33): Into that chair. Speaker 7 (43:35): Tried to. We had to. Speaker 8 (43:39): That's the only one I saw. I saw Speaker 2 (43:40): That. Okay. Speaker 1 (43:42): Did you build this building here yourself? Speaker 2 (43:44): Yeah, I built two of 'em. Since I've been on this side of the creek three log building, I worked in the first one right it down out of the 52 year three buildings I got this and put up where it won't rot down. So the bottom logs right, it termites. I've eaten in them and I need spray around in about them. Might heavy it some but I get a lot of termites here in them. Slabs, they'll come. I even had a mine on the mud on that wood before I wake 'em up our house. Same way before us stop them. Whether we stop them yet or none, it's been bad. Speaker 1 (44:29): Do you store anything up there in the top Speaker 2 (44:32): Store it? No, that's too much work. I just Speaker 1 (44:35): Too hard to get up in there. Speaker 2 (44:38): I couldn't make an up upside or add something. But the ground floor level is best and I ain't got level here on this hillside ever build a pot. It don't build it on a hillside and the mud hole. Speaker 1 (44:53): About how deep down does your mill go? Speaker 2 (44:55): It just level the ground there. Oh it is Ain't quite level with the ground. A little above ground there about four Speaker 9 (45:00): Foot five. No it's not. Speaker 2 (45:09): We got to have hip every year. We put that back up because them things are heavy. I have put up one by myself, tore it down. Most time I have hip my son-in-law and my brother or nephew or something around the hip because them things put up green weights and get dry. Make a lot faster than we'll put 'em up green. I never have Chris Oil one. What it can I say gum. Can't call it Chris Oil. Speaker 1 (45:40): They make it last longer I guess. Speaker 9 (45:42): Where y'all name? Speaker 7 (45:43): Atlanta? We, Georgia State University. It's part of the university. Speaker 1 (45:50): I wanted to ask you about how long ago you built your last kil down there. Speaker 2 (45:54): Oh, it's been about 15 years. It lasted pretty good. I haven't built a mow and it didn't last long. But as I said, my brother helped me with that and made it pretty good job on it. It took patience time. Hay Speaker 1 (46:07): Brother, is that one of the biggest ones you've ever built? Speaker 2 (46:09): Yeah, that's the biggest I ever had. Always had 'em a little smaller than that. And the hole, about eight foot, he had nine foot wide and about 10, 11 foot long, which is a wire bin and the fire box added on it and about five foot high, five and a half. And that's the biggest style bill And I like a little ke cause you want to make a little stuff and get it ready and you can get you where you can just do a little work. You can make you a little ke but y'all find them down just to, you can use gas, either one. Speaker 1 (46:49): Yeah, then you don't have to save up for so long before you burn it. Speaker 2 (46:52): That's right. That's what I like. Now I need to kill for next week all on that little stuff and I can get it ready four weeks from now. Speaker 1 (47:01): Yeah. Well I sure appreciate you talking to me. Well, I enjoy everything you've had to Speaker 2 (47:07): Say. If I'm being a help anybody, I try to, ain't got to make it over 48 more years and I'm going to quit. Speaker 1 (47:13): Yeah, you deserve to quit then. I tell you. No transcript exists for this recording. Professor John Burrison founded the Atlanta Folklore Archive Project in 1967 at Georgia State University. He trained undergraduates and graduate students enrolled in his folklore curriculum to conduct oral history interviews. Students interviewed men, women, and children of various demographics in Georgia and across the southeast on crafts, storytelling, music, religion, rural life, and traditions. As archivists, we acknowledge our role as stewards of information, which places us in a position to choose how individuals and organizations are represented and described in our archives. We are not neutral, and bias is reflected in our descriptions, which may not convey the racist or offensive aspects of collection materials accurately. Archivists make mistakes and might use poor judgment. We often re-use language used by the former owners and creators, which provides context but also includes bias and prejudices of the time it was created. Additionally, our work to use reparative language where Library of Congress subject terms are inaccurate and obsolete is ongoing. Kenan Research Center welcomes feedback and questions regarding our archival descriptions. If you encounter harmful, offensive, or insensitive terminology or description please let us know by emailing reference@atlantahistorycenter.com. Your comments are essential to our work to create inclusive and thoughtful description.