Judy Scarbrough interview with Virgil Kendall, Flora Hawn, John Walker, Thomas “Verlie” Green, George Walker, William “Ross” Kendall, Virgil Kendall, and Scott Moore (part one)

The John Burrison Georgia Folklore Archive recordings contains unedited versions of all interviews. Some material may contain descriptions of violence, offensive language, or negative stereotypes reflecting the culture or language of a particular period or place. There are instances of racist language and description, particularly in regards to African Americans. These items are presented as part of the historical record. This project is a repository for the stories, accounts, and memories of those who chose to share their experiences for educational purposes. The viewpoints expressed in this project do not necessarily represent the viewpoints of the Atlanta History Center or any of its officers, agents, employees, or volunteers. The Atlanta History Center makes no warranty as to the accuracy or completeness of any information contained in the interviews and expressly disclaims any liability therefore. If you believe you are the copyright holder of any of the content published in this collection and do not want it publicly available, please contact the Kenan Research Center at the Atlanta History Center at 404-814-4040 or reference@atlantahistorycenter.com. This is the first of a two part recording. In this part, Virgil Kendall sings and plays three bluegrass songs on the banjo: Bright Skinner Valley, Goin up Cripple Creek, Goin in a Run, and Gathering Flowers for the Masters Bouquet. Flora Hawn (1921-2001) was born in Jonesboro, Georgia, to J. W. Allen (1890-?) and Alice Brown (1895-1923). She worked in a restaurant in Griffin. John Walker (1923-2013) was born in Marble, North Carolina, to John Thomas Berry Walker (1899-1966) and Minnie Ellis (1904-1998). In 1946, he married Margaret Franklin (1930-2007);, and they resided in Blue Ridge, Georgia, and had six children. Walker worked as a dispatcher for the Fannin County Sheriffs Department and as a school bus driver. George Walker (1926-2006), John Walkers brother, was born in Mineral Bluff, Georgia. When he was 18, Walker enlisted in the United States Army, and later worked as Deputy Sheriff at the Fannin County Sheriffs Department. He married Bertha Thomas (1925-1991), and they had one daughter. Thomas Verlie Green (1936-1984) was born in Mineral Bluff to James Jewel Green (1905-1937) and Hattie Pittman (1910-2000). He married Bernice Patterson (1941-2016) and they had six children. William Ross Kendall (1907-1981) was born in Fannin County, Georgia, to Leander Kendall (1870-1914) and Lillie Garland (1873-1958). In 1942, he enlisted in the military. Kendall married Paula Watson (1927-1993), and they had two children: Susan Summey (1951-2018) and Cathy Hunt (1957-2020). Virgil Kendall (1907-1983), William Ross Kendalls cousin, was born in Morganton, Georgia, to Wilburn Larkin (1880-1961) and Mintie Tilley (1879-1961). He later moved to Stock Hill, where he worked on his fathers farm. Scott Moore (1924-1993) was born in Hayesville, North Carolina, to Andrew Moore (1865-1948) and Amanda Slivey (1885-1946). In 1943, he enlisted in the United States Army. He married Jean Prince (1927-2017), and they had three children: Steven (1954-2014), Nancy, and JoAnn. Folk JOO 10:40 Moonshine Stills by Judy Scarbrough Dr. John Burrison Title Flora Hawn John Walker Ver.lie Green George Walker Table of Contents Scott Moore and Ross Kendall Virgil Kendall, Scott Moore and Ross Kendall Virgil's Banjo Tunes Cherokee Still My Favorite Person Page 1 8 16 21 27 53 87 91 92 Flora Hawn Flora Hawn, age fifty two, was born July 25,1921. She lived in Jonesboro, Georgia till she was fourteen then moved around from Fayette, Rockdale, Clayton, and Spaulding County. She now lives at Route four, Griffin, Spaulding County, Georgia. We are employed at the same restaurant. We were talking about my project and she said her daddy used to run a still and she knew a little, so, I recored her I Flora Hawn Judy Flora, who uh,who did you learn this from? Flora My daddy. Judy Wh, where did he learn it from? ~ Well, just from different ones. Judy Just r:ound and about? Flora Just round and about. Judy O. K. wi will you explain from the draw:i.n 1 , ~ Well, I'll do the best I can. Uh, now, this is the copper hoiler and uh this is the cap and the pipes that go to the re remainder of the boiler, you know, ,Judy Uh uh Flora This is the doublin' can and the steams comes up, you know, and goes oui: through this pipe here and down into what they called a "worm" it's it's made of copper and it circles around about three times,--you know, and then runs into a buc]4,t which is first starts is uh alkyhol and then it runs on till it runs v,eak, you know, you have to proof it and uh it'll run on down till it gets down to uh, you know, (leak) weak whiskey, you know, Uh uh ~ And then they call that low wines which they can take that low wines and put it back through the still on the next run and uh let hit make more alkyhol, you know, and uh it runs into whiskey, again. Judy Does that make it stronger? Flora That makes it stronger and then it's, you know, that much savin 1 Judy M hu Flora And uh from that 021 you got well, you don t make a whole lot it Is just an old antique still, you know. Judy 0.,. K. Well, tha it boils you see and the steams comes up Judy Uh uh comes over and goes into the doublin I can e.nd when it goes out of the doublin' can the steams goes up, you know, and then it goes into a liquid, Judy The doublin' can males it into a liquid? Flora Yea, uh uh Judy Just what exactly? Flora The steam does, the steam makes the liquid, you see. Judy Uh uh Il.Qli And it runs up through this pipe here and then goes down into this steel worm and then, you know, runs on out. Judy o. K. I appreciate it, Flora. Il.Qli Uh uh Flora Hawn and Papa - -RELEASEDy 1ettin8 us collect your traditions--stories, sonp,s 51 music, remem.berences, or beliefs of earlier days--you have niade a valuable contribution to preserving and understandin.r. Souther12 history, and especially the uay of life of your covununity. Because you have r;iven unselfishly of your time to do this, the Georgia Foll:lore Archives, Hhose representatives are dedicated to preservinr; these traditions, wants to protect your rir;hts to th.is rrtaterial by p;ueranteeine; that it ,Jill not be used for unscrupulous commercial profits o By siznin:1 this sheet~ you are giving us permission to use this material for educational purposes so that people who are interested can understand how life tJas in the old days. If you don't want your name to be used, say so--we respect your rir;ht to privacy. Than!c you for the time you have p;iven to help us record a heritage that is an iI'.~portant part of /l.1:1erican life., "'In consideration of l'ly intent in helping to preserve r,y folk heritar,e, I hereby grant permission to the Georgia Folk Archives and its Director, John Burris on, to publish, ot otherwise mal,e use of, the n.aterial recorded from me by the agent of the Georgia Folklore Archives whose name appears on this sheeto Sig{\ed Georgia Folklore Archives c/o Professor John Burrison Georgia State University 33 Gilmer Street Southeast Atlanta, Georgia 30303 Ac1.dress Date__p -- ,2 f - Zi 7 John Walker John Walker, age fifty, was born June 25,1923, He was raised in Mineral Bluff, Fannin County, Georgia and moved to Blue Ridge, Fannin County, Georgia when he married, Johm drives a school bus for the Fannin County school department and is a dispatcher for the Fannin County Sheriff's department. I went to talk to the Sheriff but he was not there, so, John said he would help me out John Walker Judy John, how did you learn about making whiskey? ~ Uh, when I was about fourteen years old, why we moved into a uh :place in the county that da was there was alot of whiskey made and uh I got friendly with the boys and the :people in that :part of the country and just kind of uh eased in on thoir whiskey makin' and watchin' and everythin'. Uh got it from the beginnin 1 , uh, from makin 1 the mash on in to the uh finished product and, uh, I don't know exactly. They 1s good whiskey and bad whiskey. Uh, start off uh maldn 1 sweet mash, double n' twist it corn whiskey (laugh). Judy What's double it and twist it? ~ The best - that's where you run it through the still twiced, uh and it's run through uh a thump keg. Judy That's called a doublin' can, too, itn't? ~ That's right it can be called a doublin' can or, uh, that would be uh the best whiskey and then if you want uh to make a bad whiskey why you can add uh more sugar and uh run it through uh a worm into uh a pipe that runs to a branch to cool it down. They 1s lots of ways a mak.ein' it and uh prisent way I underatand is to uh run it through car radiator n 1 get it all uh poisined up with lead and everythin' so. Judy That makes it real dangerous doesn't it? ~ It da it da, you get lead poison. They sa uh, uh several uh, different types of uh ways of doin' this and uh the steamer, I guess, if they use tha big steamers uh probably 'd' make pretty good whiskey it's not uh generally not a copper still it's the uh. Judy Well on a steamer do you run it through, I mean do you mae::e mash just like you would on a l.2llli Oh ye/3. mash is all made pretty well the same except uh they uh put eagle lye .. Judy Uh uh l.2llli in some of it to make it, uh, bead and work off quicker uh. Judy Well, I've heard of about people puttin' stuff around the boilers to kept the heat in. Do you know of anything that they put in around it. You haven't heard of anything like that. !L2.!lll. Na, I don't know exactly about the big uh steamers uh never seen one in operation uh most uh the biggets still that I ever saw was, uh, would run about, uh, two hundred gallon of whiskey and it was copper lo Judy Uh uh :J.QJ.ill. , and uh I'd say it was about :five foot, uh, deep and uh maybe three feet across and it was built in a rock uh, uh furnace, Rock 1n 1 clay it jest built up around the uh thing to where the cap went on it, Uh, and then they poured the mash in from there 1n 1 put the cap on it uh and sealed it with, uh uh, brand meal of something uh that wouldn't bake off and uh through the worm and into the uh thump keg he has it backvrards, it goes through the thump keg and then the woriiJ and uh doublin' keg, I guess you'd call it, either one and uh been a long time since I've can't remember just exactly how all that went but uh, Judy And that's real good whiskey, uh? :J.QJ.ill. Suppose to be the best on a copper still Judv D ju ever :J.QJ.ill. as long as you keep it clean it's not poison. Judy Yea, did you ever get in trouble with the police about. Say like standin 1 around watchin' it bein' run off and get busted? :J.QJ.ill. No, no I never uh never was with ,1m when they got caught (laugh), Judy You were lucky, uh. if John And uh back back at that time uh nobody paid too much attention to uh people makin 1 whiskey uh, I won't, whatnt too many Federal agents in the county and uh uh right after the depression nobody just didn't, Judy Bout the only place to get it, wun't? ~ Uh well they's yea there was about wouldn't any bo!(nded whiskey hardly at all in the county at that time. Judy Well, Fannin County was still dry back then, too wun't? ~ Far back as I can remember forty well fifty years Fannin County I s been dry, Judy Yea. ~ Never knowned of it bein 1 wet county but uh, Judy By law anyway, ~ (laugh) Bout right there, uh, the uh alot of the uh people in this county would've starved death if it hadn't of been for moonshine whiskey (laugh) so. Judy Well, when do you think they started bearin' down on these stills Uh bout 19---Lf6 I think would be, Federal agents started comin' in real bad and uh bearin' dovm on it ta Judv Why? i.21!.!!. Uh, most the time way the agents uh they get information from other people uh and uh find out where these stills are generally they go in and if they uh can't find somebody with um uh they'll o:1;:;<ii the things up uh pour out the mash 'n' they uh sometimes they'll find somebody with one but uh it. Someway they're generally warned where they don't uh get caught so that's uh general information from the uh citizens and people around what generally breaks up uh a still and uh, Same \Vay by catchin' haulers, They uh, get ihformation and \Vatch uh then they uh.-.anhagent will buy. one u J John had to stop and answer a call and I couldn't get him to talk anymore John Walker and George Walker -RELEASEDy ietting us collect your traditiovs--stories, sonr.s si music 9 ret1emberences, or beliefs of earlier daye--you have made a valuable contribution to preserving and understandinc Southern history, and especially the way of life of your coPJmuni.ty. Because you have given unselfishly of your time to do this, the Georgia Folklore Archives!/ uhose representatives are dedicated to preservinr; these traditions, wants to protect your rights to this material by guaranteeing that it will not be used for unscrupulous cowmercial profits. By signing this sheet, you are giving us perwission to use this material for educational purposes so that people <1ho are interested can understand how life was in the old days. If you don't want your name to be used, say so--we respect your right to privacy. Thanl: you for the time you have !liven to help us record a heritage that is an iI"portant part of American life. "In consideration of "'Y intent in helpinc to preserve r.,y folk heritar,esi I hereby grant permission to the Georgia Folk Archives and its Director, John Burrison, to publish, ot otherwise mal:e use of, the material recorded from me by the a.gent of the Georgia Folklore Archives whose name appears on this sheet. ,,,,, of Coocefa Fol>loco Ncoh>vos~ ~/< MO,Uo=l Ulm,,,~, 217- , Georcia Folklore Archives c/o Professor John Burrison Georgia State University 33 Gilmer Street Southeast Atlanta, Georgia 30303 Verlie Green I\met Verlie after I talked with John, he was paying a fine for public drunkedness. I did not get any other information other than he is a frequent visitor at the Sheriff's office every saturday morning 17 Judy What your name sir? Verlie Verlie Green Judy Verlie Green o.K. now, how do you know about makin' whiskey? Verlie Well, I'll tell ya I've seen some of it made. Uh, first thing you do now just getcha an old pot it dun't matter if it's rusty or whatnot or tub or something; getcha a couple of bushels of meal or whatever much you want; pour it in there and cook it, till ya get it pretty well throughly done, ya know, get it pretty thick; take it out pour it in your barrel or box whatever your goin' to put it in. well, ya let it sit there a couple days, see, take ya an old mash stick, getcha an old hickory, getcha an old hickory limb, ya know, a pretty good size, getcha a hammer and beat cha up a kind of uh a hicky Gn the end, you know, to stir with; get in there and start stirrin' that all up, stirrin 1 it all up and when it gets good and cool then why you can go put what sugar, as much sugar as you want, too, in there with it Judy Uh uh 11rlie put cha malt on there, corn malt, what I always hered (laugh) Ferit maybe uh na, you know, then hit 1ll, stir it all up good and let hit start workin 1 , and it 111 work off, ya know, it begins to work you can see it rollin', hear it. Then getcha a thief or something, you know, you can .think out of; stick it down there and sample it pretty good every day, you knov1, till it gets to tastin 1 pretty bitter like. Judy Uh uh Verlie Keep stickins ya ear down there,,kisten every once in awhile you 111 hear some thin I e. bubblin I and a rollin 1 ; when it qui ts all that why you can can go getin' your outfit ready to put put furnace and get ready to start pou.rin 1 it in the still and firin' it up and gettin' her ready 1t' run., Getcha worm and 'n' everythin, your alki, your jugs and everything (burp), sittin 1 there ready to catch it. Till finally, keep, the hotter you get_it the faster it'll cime and it'll start runnin'. a u,,, 1e high, just let that go and let about a gallon or two off and then you can sample that if you want to, it's gettin' pretty good ready to drink. Getcha a few drops of water to put in it cause it'll burn ya if ya don't. Judy Uh uh Verlie And that's about the size of it, ~ Thank you Verlie Your welcome* By letting us collect your traditions--stories, songs, music, sayings, riddles, or beliefs of earlier days--you have made a valuable contribution to preserving and understanding Southern history, and especially the history and way of life of your community. Because you have given unselfishly of your time to do this, the Georgia Folklore Archives, whose representatives are dedicated to preserving these traditions, wants to protect your rights to this material by guaranteeing that it will not be used for unscrupulous commercial profits. By signing this sheet, you are giving us permission to use this material for educational purposes so that people who are interested can understand how life was in the old-timey days. Your material will probably not be printed or issued on a record, but if it is, and you don't want your name to be used, say so--we respect your right to privacy. Thanlt you for the time you have an important part of American life. that you want to send along to us so given to help us record a heritage that is If you remember any more old-timey things that it will always be preserved, write to: Signed Georgia Folklore Archives c/o Prof. John Burrison Georgia State University 33 Gilmer Street South East Atlanta, Georgia 30303 ? 2~' ~ k 'l,..U-k. Address WWW , ,Ji ~.b}-- ~J:1.~ hf {l_ ~ For Ga. Fl. Archives: Witness~) Date /-3-Z 3 George Walker George Walker, age forty seven, was born March 25,1926. He was raised in Mineral Bluff, Fannin County, Georgia till he joined the Army at age eighteen. After retirement he returned to Mineral Bluff. Mr, Walker was very helpful and he told me about the still at the Cherokee Sheriff's department . George Walker Judy Mr. V/alker, what is your postion with the, uh, Police Department? Mr. Walker Uh, I'm with the uh Fannin County Sheriff Department, Deputy Sheriff. Judy How do ya 111, how do you usually find out about a still? Mr. Walker Usually, someone reports a still. Fannin County is a big county have about seven hundred and fift:)' mile of roal in Fannin County. We only have three deputies and uh we don't have too much time for survalence, so, usually it's by people in the community reporting uh stills. Judy Uh, uh well, when somebody reports it do you then, do you bust j_t yourself or do you do ya always go get the Revenue agents. Mr. Walker Usually, we take the Revenue agents with us, State or Federal. Uh, we can call them at anytime and they'll come right up and go with us and we go out and find the still, where it's at and maybe keep it under survalence for awhile; they have more time to do that simce that's there primary purpose is busting these things up and uh if we can catch someone at the stj_ll that's what we try to do but if we can't then we go ahead and dynamite it. Jud,i}: Well, most of the time you don't usually find somebody there, do ya? Mr. Walker No, we don't uh, they usually have uh people posted. Judy Uh uh, it's pretty d,:mgerous goin' around stills, uh waht I've heard. Mr. Walker Vlell it can get a little dangerous. Have you got, say, is there somebody that you know that runs one all the time and you can't catch him but you always get his still, and he always sets up work somewhere else. Mr. Walker Tats right, uh, we know several people that's in the bootleggin 1 business in Fannin County but uh it's kind of hard to catch um, they're well experienced it's been goin 1 on for years and years. It's uh somethin' their father's done and goes right on dovm through the generation. Have you ever had any uh unusual experience about bustin 1 up a still? Mr. Walker Well, I wouldn't say that is was unusual experience, we uh, it's just routine for us if vre can find out where there at, Ya 111 just go in and dynamite um did ya say? Mr. Walker Right if we can't; well, if we do catch a person at the still why we go. ahead and make pictures or then we dynamite or take axes andchop the still ' up and tale the copper out, bring it in for evidence. Judy Uh uh but don't usually nowadays they use just the uh radiators out of cars? Mr, Walker Yea, they do use radiator out of cars and it uh this is the whiskey that's dangerous, If the whiskey was made with uh copper stills 'n' uh ,:.se the regular what they call a worm, it's a copper tubing - pipe that's tw:isted around and it runs through the trough where the water's pouting over it, cools it down, condenses the steam into uh whiskey alcohol, Someti;;HHJ they use these radiators and uh it's had anti-freeze in it which is poison uh metals poison and uh so that's, Vie have slot of poisonin' peoples that dies from not here in Fannin County but this is what happens slot of tines peoples dies from it, I can't recall a case where someone died right right off hand in Fannin County from drinkin' poison whiskey probably this has happened, ' -RELEASE Dy letting us collect your traditions ... -stories, sonr,s9 music:; rememberences, or beliefs of earlier days--you have Made a valuable contribution to preserving and understanding Southern history, and especially the way of life of your covnnunity. Because you have given unselfishly of your time to do this, the Georgia Folklore Archives, uhose representatives are dedicated to preserving these traditions, wants to protect your rishts to this material by guaranteeine; that it trill not be used for unscrupulous commercial profitso By sir;nin~ this sheets you are giving-us permission to use this material for educational purposes so that people who are interested can understand how life was in the old days. If you don't want your name to be used, say so--we respect your right to privacy. Thanl, you for the time you have given to help us record a heritag:e that is an important part of American life. "In consideration of !'IY intent in helpinr; to preserve r,,y folk heritar,e, I hereby grant permission to the Georgia Folk Archives and its Director, John Burrison, to publish, ot otherwise 1,,aJ,e use of, the material recorded from me by the ar,;ent of the Georgia Folklore Archives whose narc1e appears on this sheet o Signed Ac1.dress A::;ent of Georsia Folklore Archives Additional Witness U 1,cl~ u Georr;ia Folklore Archives c/o Professor John Burrison Georgia State University 33 Gilmer Street Southeast Atlanta, Georgia 30303 Dl'l.te /-.5-73 Scott Moore and Boss Kendall Scott Moore is my uncle. He knew all these people and could tell me a little about each one before I talked to them, After a taping session, we would listen to the tape and he would explain things I did not understand. Scott knew Boss and he introduced me to Virgil, Ross Kendall and Scott Moore B..fill I'll I'll get through talkin 1 then I'll I'll starten it out and tell ya the straight of it but uh. First time I went up there I rode a big ole horse up there. The Revenue come in and cut um down. Old Randy Southers, you know? 2.tl. I remember Randy Southers ll.1!. Yea, he came up there, he asked me what I was doin' up there? I said I was just seein' what they was adoin 1 , I had enough sense, I was big enough to knowed, you know, he was the law,,, 2.tl. Yea B..fill , , and I says I just though I I d stop and see what they were adoin 1 He went around there talkin' to this fellow Wright and I told my brother,"I said, jump on this horse and we'll take off, I says I'lL out run hin,, I_says,"on this horse" He Souldn' t do it I see now the reason why, you know, he knowed him, he done found out who they was 2.tl. Y<ea Ross It would have been just as bad, But they made me just as mad because he wouldn't het on that old horse and me take him away, They came a marchin'm down the creek, Where's I could tell my brother he; they told him not to fool with it but he was goin' make big money, ya know. Back then they didn't think nothin' of makin' whiskey much then .2.2il No That was about all them old people back there knowed to do was to make a little money.~ .2.2il You could buy whiskey at every house nearly .2.2il Yea And uh, but I, before that I would go up there, ,,a know, ctc,d ! 1 s G;. t ' thAie, and watch um, I didn t drink none never have drink none, but I'd set there and them runn that off, you know, they double it and twist it. There's two kinds or three kind of whiskey, that's un sugar liquor, you know, then you take double it and twist it corn, you know, just put the corn malt in there and run it off, first, then they go back sugar it and let it work off, you know, .2.2il Run it through again E.2.... run through agai,:, arid that would uh be double it and twist it corn, they'd call it. But sittin' there, you know, and I would get drunk I couldn't get away from there ...!?..ti Just the fumes. God, just the fumes of it sit tin' there and I didn t know what -- scared the hound out of me, I didn't know, I was drunk and didn't drink none. But they, it's funny how they made it. I'll tell ya kind of how they make it and then you can write it down later, you, They first start it out they have big boxes and they'd uh buy up corn meal, ground it,, up and take it and put it in there and put water in there and stir that and 11.h let it sit. They I d be, you know, five hundred gallons of it may be so many bushels of corn till the side of the box. They'd put it there and let it work and a certain, they could tell, you know, the way it'd get a kind of crust on it. We'd go up there and I'd watch my brother and he'd drink that off that, ya know, he'd dip down in there and get that and sour it off and it just kinda like home brew or some or another, I couldn't drink it there'd be nates in it and everything flies, you knovr they'd g~f}in there in that box and they didn't pay any attention, they'd just strain it and poured it in. So, one time an old pig got in one of em, you knq\ and that thing had drowned and they just throvred that pig away and just made that whiskey right on. That's the truth if I had to die, that's the truth and uh, you take, when they got it, when they got got ready they go in there, ya knovr, and they uh a rampert built out of rock built it up and sit that still in there, ya know. Then they'd go hered and had a place here for a pipe. They'd run this pipe out up to t\1e branch in a trough. I tell ya the reason why they had the trough. Hit go up there, then come back over here in another trough and uh vrhenever that boiled, ya know, they'd run it that stem and go through that pipe, so, that water cooled it off and it would evaperation, I mean the vapor of it would make that whiskey, ya know, it'd would came back through there the other end run it out a little stream just bout like a match or little bigger sometimes +l! ,-i_,::; (:: / ,-, bigger than that. They'd run that off, they'd, bicgest ~,e,w,,;},;m" ever they had it, what they called thump whiskey and then they had, you know scorch whiskey. You, I guess tasted of it. It's awful tastin 1 stuff, I used to taste of it, I can never did like to drink it at all, I I don't know why, I like beer but I just never like whiskey, just didn't like the taste of it. Bonded whiskey tastes pretty good but uh I'd raised up there with it, so, there's alot of stills, Ole man Wright made a long time and do you know the funny part about it is that ta they uh kept these stiHs and they had a, get a boiler and they'd uh had a thumpin 1 racket and they could tell by that thump when that thing was, to pull the fire, you Y'J1O'W,, Scott Where it was gettin' to hot er uh. E2fill Too hot er too cold, That's what always puzzled me how they could tell but it had a different racket. That old man 1d sit there and listen at that and he'd pull the fire ..9..ti Yea E2fill They'd had to have dead wood so it wouldn't make too much smoke. Does that make sense to ya? Judy Yes, sir. E2fill They'd get this dead wood way up on the mountain put it down 'ner and they'd thDy1d fire that thing ju.st like makin' sycl'.'up and 'na they'd run that all night. They'd run it out there and it comes out and it's, uh, 31 singleings, they call it, the first. Then they'd, when they got through they'd run that back through and they'd make the whiskey, you know, that singleings was jest, well, it wawdn' strong, you know. They'd run it through again and that'd make it pretty good ole stuff. It also used that ~ And then Tampered it down to Instead of using water E.Q._._ And then they'd uh, if you wanted to ah make the doublin' twist it they'd put that back in there, you know, and uh put this stuff in there. Then they'd started makin' this sugar liquor. They takes sugar and put in them boxes with that --- they'd pour this stuff back out, you know, when they'd run it through there. Put it back in the box and put sugar in 1ner and it'd work off again. .ill What they call sugarn I backt Yea, sugarn' back. That's mix 1n sugar 1n 1 whish:ey .Qil Yeja. B2fili And they'd, that thing'd run ~ Wha --- dey --- make one what 1 che. call the first run a sugar and second run a sugar. B2fili Yea, that was what they call sweet mash. Yea B2fili The first run---- ~ The first run---- B2fili First they'd run it ~ The first run of sugar is, uh, I'd rather have that than corn whiskey. B2fili Yea, yea the first run there is uh. mashin I as :\;'L\o.g as the slop Bout third time tho it's not any good B2fili Mashin 1 back, you can jest keep Yea, it's no good, It's,they say that's a head.ache(laughter). J Uh, the first uh the furst run, the fi.rst mash back a sugar is good tastin' Ross Ysa, that first run 'er sugar, used to---- !?..Qll It's good whiskey. RQ I hauled whiskey one time. I come back frim the army 1n 1 I couldn't get a job right after the war, ,ya !mow. And there's an old feller told me, he said, if you'll wan to make some easy money I'll tell you how to do it. I had me a good automobile, I'd come up here to these here, people,you know, that sold whiskey. Old Bret Wilson 'n' Chris Davenport 'n' them, They give me two dollars a gallon to deliver it over here to uh Flint Hill over in th ere, offin 1 the highway, you know !?..Qll Yea RQ I'd go up here and I had a big ole Chrysler convertible, I wouldn't go at night, I'd get my girl friend 1n' she knowd all about. She liked to drink. I I d get her n I I I d fill that back jest as full of whiskey as I could git it. I'd come down the road jest a boilin', cuttin 1 up, you know, goin' right on through stoppin' at Morganton. Her and I talked to the Sheriff a many a time. I'll tell you one little ole !?..Qll Have a full load of it huh? Ross Yea, one little incident; me and girl was sittin 1 up here at Wilcox Spring n I we had that ole Packard jest a full a whiskey as we could get it. She wanted a drink awful bad. Had to have it u I had it in bout half 1a 1 gallon fruit jars. I had on a big pair of new overhauls had a bib, you know. I got out a half gallon n I took her down to that old spring where we passed, you know, She's goin 1 to take a drink. I seen a truck comin 1 1n 1 I jest took that down 1n 1 them bib overhauls. Come down there 1n 1 it was uh Hober Henson 'n' ah two or three deputies dogs(?), Hob drove up, ya know, in that ole' Ji',,i;i;;Jrard us sittin 1 the back end of it down there. "Kendall what 'er ye doin 1 ?11 I'de well acquainted with him, you know, we 1se gain' fishin', I sez, can't find no bait, I sez, you fellas got all the bait scared outta these mountains up here and he laughed. He talked on a litted while, She jumped up and she said,"Lets go", Boy, I coulda' killed her, She know 1d I had that whiskey in my bib, (laugher) I said II Well don I t be in no hurry I said we want a talk a while.11 Directly he cranked up and drove off, I sez, 11 You durned idiot you. What if I 1da got up and he 1da saw that half a gallon a whiskey." "I never thought of that I 'se scared". (laughter) Lsed-so ---I got outta there 1n 1 took off by grannies that was a close shave by --- if he'd told rne to come over there or sornethin 1 er another I 1da been up a against it. Scott You, ah, you couldn 1ta managed that half a gallon in the bib in those overhauls could' ja? Ross I had my coat on n thez too big. (laughter) I don't know what I'da done, Ada'sjest one ae the times that I got; then one time fare they built that road, there was a log haul, ya know, they paved up to there 3s bout to the end of it. Then they's a mud hole there. Walt Painter was a litted ole deputy, I got stuck right there, jest. I couldn't get C there up on the ,(i):cd and I I se loaded down and I got Walt to pull me out,. ..,Q.ll He's a deputy, ~ And he's a deputy sherrif and I got him to pull that car outta there, by grannies. I tried to pay him and he wouldn't take nothin', I cranked up and tool off. He'd know 1d that boy he'd a grabbed me.(laughter) Scott He'd a jailed you, sure as the world, k,;,,, Yeh but you''I never was caught, I hauled liguor. Finally they got after em bout that, Ole Larry I think. I gotta haulin 1 to Knoxville, they raised the price, I got about four dollars I took it to Knoxville, Tennessee ..,Q.ll Yeh uh drive in to this man's house. To this day I don't know who the toqi~ ,\: man was but then he me, th:is here feller toql me up there and he sez, 0You come right here ai-1.d dri-Ie :..."":'i.t.)1t in this basement. This door 'le be open sez you drive in and go do,m there to the corner to that retaurant and eat dinner, er bring supper whatever you wanta do 11 And he sez, "It'll be on the road if you wants---- I take it up there ya back and you know that my9'love compartment I just had that thing full of money buddy. He put it in the glove compart ----- Scott They'd unloaded while you'se gone and put the money---- ~ Yes, sir, unloaded every bit of it and put it in there. That'a way I didn't see nobody 'ner nothin'. Scott Yeh, didn't know who you'se dealin' with. E.Q... No didn't know who I'se dealin' with 'er nothin'. I never did have no trouble. Scott_ :Probly some, ah, city offical Ross Yeh, somebody like that---Scott Connected with the police department. Ross It was nice homes and every~ thing but they used to you jest go nearly anywhere back in these coves. You could see them little bit a swamp comin' up everywhere nearly. The law used to go 'an watchin'at cha know. The other way they'd watch it, they pick alittle old ditch thatas runnin' into a stream, you know. They usedto go up,these streams, they called 'em branch walkers. Scott Smell the---- ~ And the law would and tbei could see that slop, you know, were they dr and they would track it to 'em. There's been a many caught like that. Scott Yeh, Randy Southers said he could smell of a branch andtell where's theres uh whiskey still on it or not. E.Q... Yeh, you can smell it, you can smell it on 't' branch. Scott Yeh, you just go up the branch and they found it. ~ Yeh---- hope it , Scott He was the uh the Revenue agent in this area back during Prohibition days. E..2... Yeh, he'dket in there and walk around this. They said he went up .here to Holley'Balls's(?) one time. That was that mean, ya know, Balls, he killed everybody and ~y finnaly killed him but qf's back in there and says the first thing, ya know the bark(?) jest be right at his head with a big high powered rifle . ,. Boys, said he got outa there said he couldn I tisee nobody I didn't hear nobody or nothin'. But he'd said that was to close to suit him . Scott Yeh, it's time to move out, ~ Yeh, it's time to leave, Scott But here uh o the last few years I think they got a more less unwritten agreement between the Revenue people and bootleggers. T.hat sa to dapense with the shooting. If they can find one, if they can find a still with anybody at it they can run um down and catch um they will and uh but they won't shoot 'em and uh the moonshiners work the othel"Way uh work the same way they uh won't shoot any of the Revenue agents. They say Randy Southers oh could run run out run a .:'ieer. Ross Yeh, he could run, they said no use in tryin' to out run 'im. Scott No, said he could out run a deer. Ross Yeh, he'd get out and run practice, ya know. Scott Yeh ~ Yeh, I'd I could go back up in there and them fellas all they they they I'd go to where they had the whiskey hid, they weren't afraid me they'd found me out(?). I could I'd file along the last I'd buy it. You'd get,for a dollar two dollars. Scott Fera gallon ~ Real whiskwy, yeh, I'd take it down's; La sellin' around Morganton there. I didn't think nuthin' about it then, now where it's badbut uh t~s goin'get it somewhere so --- so I said ... Scott Why sure ~ ... !~est as/well make the money, not(?). I sold a hundred ' pints one time. They had a big singin' over there at Morganton Scott Now, right heres Will Scott where he's talkin' about when uh. ~ Yeh, I was sittin' right there on that there bank, Scott When he had the half a gallon---- in his bosum(laughter). Half 'a' gallon---- Yeh, whenever she jumped and started to the car 'n' wanten to go, buddy I could of beat her over the head right(?). I jest knowd ]8s sewed up right there (laughter). Judy Have you ever seen uh home made beer made? EM!}_ No. I haven't. I've seen um ma,,;:e home brew but that's---Scott Yeh, I've made home brew. .!!Qfil!. Yeh, you've made home brew, Scott Yeh .!!Qfil!. Beer I Scott It's not against the law to make home brew as long as you don't sell it you can make alJ./' the home brew you'd want . .!!Qfil!. You can make it, yeh, Scott In fact I made some here a couple years ago .!!Qfil!. What's that made out of seed some 'n' other that they take, the seeds 'n' make uh. Scott Ah, I guess you speakin' maybe of Raisin' Jack or somethin' of that nature uh I don't---- .!!Qfil!. Yeh, yeh, yeh Scott I never drank any of that. B..2.. Oh, I like to have some them turnips, Scott Pretty aren't they E.Qg We might just ought't raid that when we come back. Scott Yeh E.Qg This is ole Woody 'hat lives heres, They truck farm all the time. They raise raise the most vegetableson this ole' place. Look like they'd gather their corn. Scott Yeh, needs to be. E.Qg Raised up here buddy I tell ya, you had to be jest as mean as them get lost. Scott Yeh they they wouldn't just up 'n' fight cha they'd kill ya without thinkin' bout it. Ross Yeh, they wouldn't Scott They wouldn't fight cha---- Yeh, you whip one of em and my God next time you say him he might shoot ya. Scott Yeh, there's no winnin' to it Ross That's just the reason they kill one another they knowd theys have to do it . Scott Have to do it---- have to do it sooner or later, yeh. Judy Is this pretty well known up here for moonshine country? ~ Yes, sir it is. Ole man W. B. DEnrehport was the king of the whiskey back here. He had a big store down here Fresh(?) Davenportand uh all these people back here I could name ya a much of the ole heads, I don't know they'd want it, you know named where you know. Now, right across that little ole hickory there is where they had there stills thu we carried some across there 'n' they said here's one about half full, that's where I made my mistake. They had a ten gallon keg 'n'' half full. You know what that---- Scott That. s the hardest one to carry, ~ That's the worst thin' it slice over the end 'n' it take you, jest knock you right on your face. Scott Yeh, full keg lots easier to carry than uh half keg. ~ They carried they carry a sixteen gallon keg of whiskey outa there. I don't know how they do it Scott Yeh, they have to carry their sugar 'n'' their uh corn 'n' meal and everything have carry that out---- back. -Ross They' dtake a sliegh and haul as as far as they coulq. you see, i 1 you couldn't make much sign do(?) they'd traded cha up. Scott They'd go a different way everytime. lli2..!! You see them trees over yonder? Judy Uh hu EM.. You have to go way ' around ta get ta there, Now, that ole boy owns all that whole country back through there and it look jest like ah Scott That's some valuable land. EM.. Ue man, all that big river bottom uo, not here but over yonder. They got money ta burn. Scott And he---- uh made it moonshinin'. EM.. Yeh, hell, the man, my un.cle, he made whiskey. Funniest thing about it, been alot tales but this is the truth. He, in later years, he plenty of money 'n' he jest made him some ta drink, you know, he justed wanted to drink Scott Yeh ~ So, he took it up there and hid it in the crib, buried under the corn. The law come in there one time, ole man Keener Beli did, he was goin' to tha hollege(?) he heard he had some. One of tha kids was up oh, five, six year old. Theys searchin' around there, in tha smokehouse 'n' everywhere and this little boy says, "Whata yous a huntin' for? Huntin' for your Daddy's whiskey, says"" Well, he says it's not in there it's up there in tha crib(laughter). Scott I bet that youngin' got a whippin'. E.Qll Oh I bet he did, I bet. Yeh, he said it ain't there it''s up there in the crib. Soott I guess that's one child that never said that again(laughter). Ross They's went up there and got it. Boy made him so mad, he said he just had it for his OWIL use. Judy First time he'd ever gotten in any trouble wun't it? Ross Yeh Right's here's were the bear got into the man's beegums the other night. Scott Yeh ~ It's around here yet somewheres somebody said. One of my cousins, this is where l's tell ya about where we're goin' to up there~ One of em he said, one of em was in his freezer, I'm tellin' ya that ole boy jest like 'n' Indian, that Henry, there's Virg and Henry there my daddy's brother's boys, ya know, first cousin. Scott Yeh E.2... They're the best white boys ever was again(?), get anything, do anything but boy they they jest don't mess with people no they's funny and he got in tha deep freeze and they they got possum, deer, bear, fish or anything 'n' they'll eat it, too Scott Yeh E.2... They cook it 'n' eat it. Scott They don't waste nothin' ~ No, they make everything, they they make their own corn or rye, raise their beef and their hogs. Somebody went up there one time and they had a biggin' over there in the feild and uh kinda of lettin' run out, cha knoW;and they killed it and jest cut the hams off and left the rest of it layin'thereand he layed up there for a week with a big high powered rifle thought maybe he'd come back and get it, ya know. Scott He's gottin' leave him layin' there. ~ Yeh, they'd never known what happen. They never did come back. Right here on Parkersey Road is where my cousin kill that boy, you know, afew years ago, They run 'em around with .a knife, right here. Scott Yeh Ross He wade the river 'n' went over there to the house and come back to the gun. And now, he says, "My gosh jest run. me around there again". He grabbed the knife and said, "Why you wouldn't shoot". He run around the holler stop(?)and he said that's fur enough. He didn't stop, buddy. Scott Let him have it hu. ----- What'd they do to him? Ross Yeh------ Nothin' Scott Didn't do anything to him. Ross No,sir Scott Self defense? ~ Yeh, he'd he'd run him all the way from way up Yoderstown. Scott Yeh Ross He'd come back to the car, ya know, his car. Judy What river is this? Scott and Ross This is the Yako River Scott It's the one that goes into the lake there in Morganton, ~ It changes to Tako way down home, up here it's Oko, Scott It's Okoa up here and down below the dam it's called Tako, it's the same river., Ross Same river i.Tudy Betcha there's alot of stills --Scott Now, let's see this is not where we turn is it?---Ross No, uhu ------ yeh Scott It's the next one itn't? Well, It's been ten years since I've been up here uh, Ross This here's where my cousin lives, That's Virg's sister 'n' them. Scott It is? li.QE Yeh Scott Last time I's up here uh I's stationed in---Ross I bet he's a deer huntin'---- I'll---Scott He might be Ross Hope not Scott He's not married is he? Ross Henry married, Tom Beer's(?) daughter over there kinda where you saw a lot of that wood. Scott Yeh Judy Is Henry and Virgil are they cousins? li.QE Yeh, they're they're bothers .. Judy Oh ~ . but they're cousins of mine. ---- One of 'em lives up there on the hill and the other lives down under---- hill there. He got 'n' old home place there, he don't live in but''let's people come up here and go hunt in' 'n' '.jest go in there. He built him another house out there. He's got trout in there that long, the thing's in that box.---- Scott Yeh Ross Ice box Scott Now, right here's where I got stuck that time. ~ Yeh, right in there---- kinda rocky, now. Scott Yeh ~ Boy, been alot of hunters goin' in there, Scott Yeh Ross Now, all this land from when we acrossin' that bridge in there belongs to these bo;y,s. Now all this back here right out onder one of 'em lives,---- 06 Scott Yeh ~ We go down here, There comes Virg, now, I believe. Scott Is that Virg? Hoss I believe Scott Yeh, yeh ---- yeh, we'll see where he's agoin'. Hoss We'll stop here 'n' tell 'em I got a warrant(?), Scott Yeh, goin' take him ta jail. Hoss Yeh(laughter) ----Just pull up there and stop. Scott Yeh, that's Virgil Kendall Virgil Kendall, age sixty six, was born April 17, 1907. He lived in Morganton, Fannin County, Georgia till he was four. Then he moved to where he lives, now, up at Dial Star in Fannin County. Virgil is on of the nicest old men I have ever met Ross Kendall, Scott Moore and Virgil Kendall Virgil Yeh, you jest ta well set in Roscoe anu tell her how to make liquor. Ross Well, you tell her the first and tthen we'll---Virgil ~ell I'll tell ya. Scott Virg, Virg, when you first start1ed out makin' it from your first experience you had in llllllkin' whiskey; uh how you learned; uh, uh who ttaught cha and uh and uh you're experiences all tthe way through until---- as far as you care tlD go. Virgil Yeh, are we close enough is this to close or---Judy Oh no, this is fina. Virgil Just fine right here---Judy Uh hu Virgil , e 11 I' 11 tte 11 ya the way uh I learnt to make it the way my dad made it and uh years ago. Go 'n' get and make us some new oak boxes, t,hree foot square and we'd go and uh take two bushel of corn 'n' sprout it, get good long sprouts on it 'n' we'd dry that 'n' then we'd take a white corn to mill and have it ground into meal; take these boxes off to tha woods on a branch where it sorta hid and we'd cook the meal we'd mash it in the boxes and we'd have that sprouted corn ground 'n' put on it and that made pure corn liquor. Ross Was that called barley? Virgil No, uh hu barley was different that was uh -- uh corn malt---Ross Corn malt? Virgil 'n' corn liquor Ross Yeh, corn malt. Virgil You don't hardley ever see it anymore used a copper still usually bout a thirty, thirty or fourty gallon still biggest ever used. Run the singlein' off first then they wash the still good 'n' clean 'n' wash everything out; put that up and boiled it, again, and that made uh, that made doublin't and twist it. There's some water in the bottom of the frigadare if ya wanta drink some cold(laughter) ... Scott All right Virgi.l . .. and uh uh let it work six and seven days, b{bble up and hita cap and make a big cap after awhile they'd be a bubbles f5 come up bout as big as ahalf 'a' dollar and it clear that cap off. When it clear off that beer that was good sour ,~: drinkin' beer. You'd do all that before you'd run'~nd double it back. After it was double back then they'd put it in uh sixteen gallon barrel and ternperit, they called it a ternperin' barrel. Judy Uh hu Virgil They temper it to a hundred proof they'd called it(laugh) didn't have no temper they had t(P proof vile, a little vile about three inches long and they would put it two thirds full of doublin't and twist it corn liquor then they'd take wet their hand and take drops of water to drop in this bottle 'n' if tin killed they took it off that's where it's at. Tin fixed it where it wouldn't be---- they got it to where tin jest u bar~ey would kill it, you see, then they marketedit, it's ready for market. But whenever they got the thumpin' liquor after that they'd put up a thump barrel by the side of this doublin't and twist it still and they'd just run it through that one time 'n' when hit come out they'd catch the liquor, it'd be liquor they wouldn't have to double it back, that was known as thump liquor. Scott That's the kind they make most the time, now itn'd? Virgil Yeh and uh they use uh 'n' alot of 'em uses ground hog stills, now. Which I never had seen them, they didn't know about 'em then. They made good back when I'm talkin' bout it. But other than makin' on an old, they call that a ground hog still, it'll hold about five hundred gallon, and set it down 'n' they don't ever move it. They cook the meal in it and never take it out, they work it there with old barley malt east that's what makes your sorry liquor, now(laugh), 'n' they call that thumpin' it, too, but it's worked off in the old tin still, it's no good I don't think it's any good for anybody to drink like that. Judy Have you ever heard the term low wine? Virgil Uh hu don't think so. Judy That's what I've heard that they call the uh singleins' is low winei.. Virgil Well uh, that would be a good name fer 'em. Ross Backins' 'n' singleins' ---Virgil Singleins' 'n' backins' was different uh backins' is from the thumper still; singleins' is from the doublin't 'n' twist it still but uh what d'ja call that? Judy Low wine Virgil Low wine? Judy Uh hu Scott I never heard of that. Virgil I didn't, they never did call it low wine but it's low alright, too low to be, you know, it won't be, you can't sell it ... Judy Uh hu Virgil ... so, they keep that in a jug till they go run again, the' another doublin', you see, they temper with that what you'se callin' low wine. Scott Instead of usin' water they used that. Virgil Yeh, they temper with that . .!i2E.. Virg, this here sugar 'n' back, sweet mash 'n' uh sour mash 'n' uh explain that. Virgil Well uh, you know uh they got to doin' that later than wh&t I was tellin' ya there while ago. They didn't know sugar 're syrup'd work when I first, you know, first began. Scott Just use corn hu? Virgil Yeh, just corn, sprouted corn and corn meal but later they got to uh found out sugar, you know, would boost it .... li6ss and Scott Yeh Virgil ... and uh they'd let it work about three days, you see, 'n' they'd melt this sugar up in water and put that warm water down in there to thin the beer ,and that w.ould work and a gallon, a gallon I er sugar would make a gallon o~> liquor. They put a hundred pound of sugar in that box of corn and where it'd make four galion it'd make fourteen. It'd make ten gallon for sugar ... Oh yeh Virgil ... and a gallon a bushel for the four bushel corntlaugh). They double it---Scott They increasin' production. Virgil then they learned to use syrup on the ground hogs and they got to usin' everything . Scott That's not fit to drink, That's Virgil Na, I know it . .!iQ.. That's a headache for every drink. Scott Yeh Virgil Yeh, I made lots of it but when it got up to that I quit, ain't made none in several years. Scott In fact I guess you never made any bad whiskey, that I know of uh. Virgil No, I tell ya I never would make none no meaner than I'd drink myself ... Scott Yeh Virgil ... if they'll say that they don't make it too mean. Now, here I sa Virgil You ain't goin' make it mean enough to kill ya, .. Scott That's right Virgil ... or none of ya friends. Ross In firin' that thing you had to keep it a certain temper~ture, didn't ya? Virgil Uh, whenever you'se a runnin' the singleins' if ya let that fire get a little too big, it'd bilge over the top of the cap and down that cap on out into your liquor. Scott Into the worm. Virgil Yeh 1 it'd come in the worm, when it got in the worm it got in your )(i liquor. Scott Yeh Virgil Boy, that'll bust your head that's tha meanest liquor you ever drunk. Scott Yeh Virgil Yeh, when it got lik~~hat it's powerful mean. I didn't, after 1.- t hey gqz: to the ground hogs 'n' usin' uh every old thing to make it out of, I quit I never made no more. No, they made it meaner than they wanted to drink and they'd sell and I never would fool around with 'em then anymore. Ross Well, the the time they uh came up here did theri,catch you, they didn't catch you amakin' did they? Virgil They never did catch me makin' . I stood in front of ole' Randiy Southers' gun as close as to that bottle right there 'n' he had me. caught, he said, "If you run I' 11 brake your leg", I I didn't want my leg brokefI'd go to Gainsville 'n' stay in jail before get it broken. Little Will Humes when he hear him asayin' that, ya know, when he did, boy,he took towards the river just aflyin' he got in the river and ole' Southsrs took that pistol off of me, ya know, shootin' in the river, when he did I run 'n' there's a big ole' log out in the ivies, pine log, 'n' the limbs rose bout this far apart ... Ross Yeh Virgil ... and I thought I'd go up over, ya know, I figured he'd , take,~ fter me, I seen I'd jest slide under, ya know, and I'se little at that time, anyway, about a hundred and thirty pounds, so uh, I jest slide under and when I got to the other side and straighten up and looked back, he tried to over where I thought I would, ya know, and the limbs tryin' to catch him go over and I seen him agoin' back(laugh). So, I straighten up and went on and I never did see him anymore, I waded the river and come down the other side and listen at him beat it up(laugh). We both got away, I never have been caught amakin'. Virgil That's got so much stuff I wouldn't know how to operate it. Judy Oh, it's easy----- Is that the only time you bout got caught? Virgil Na, I 1v~been, I've been run four times been runnin'n from stills four times but I'd always get away have everytime never have been caught, though. Judy What happen that time you got the two years? Virgil No, that was undercover men bought it. They bought whiskey from 'em. Virgil Ya see, that was one of my friends from uh Dalongea up here that I had sold it to him on credit and everyway in the world and he come over here one day brought two road contractors, big nice men, big nice car, they was road contractors. I had sold to him, trusted him everyway and oh I didn't know Illet 'em have a gallon apiece and then about a month, I guess it was, they c.ome over and let me know what I'd done. Showed me a warrant, theyYtwo for me and a search warrant for the house. They come down to the porch, there's six of 'em, Iw' as out there then at the old house. Said we gota search warrant for your house and Ifr;aid, "Will I ain't got nuthin'", says make no difference if ya ain't we got ya anyway. Throwed the two search warrants down, Roberts and Johnson was there name, the two that caught me, I picked 'em up and looked while they was asearchin'. They went in there and that guy that turn me, where I give him a drink, you know where I keep the pint? .. .!iQ_. Yeh Virgil .. and one of 'em went straight through the house and in to where I had the pint. I went and looked just to see what he's adoin' and he told 'em where I got that to give him a drink, beside having me caught. Ross Was there any int.here? Virgil Yeh, there was half a pint and they took it~' nd never said nuthin' about it. They's goin' drink it. Scott Where those people, they were Revenue agents uh disgused as uh undercover. Ross Yeh undercover Virgil ,,, Yeh and he toldWthey were road contractors Scott Yeh Ross That was dirty of him Virgil Boy, that's dirty, he ain't never been to see me anymore, he had everybody around here caught. Ross If he ever come back in here, buddy he won't he won't---Scott He won't live long, will he? Virgil He had uh D.L. Long 'n' his wife caught and his wife weight bout two hundred, -Jyon know, ~bet she's nice (?) I wished he would come back here I'd like to get him set uPl!-n the house with D.L.'s wife(laughter). She'd kill him just as sure as the devil(?) .... Ross Yes, she would, Virgil she's this big around. H+as uh he wouldn't weight over ahundred and thirty. Yes, she would've kill him. Scott What ever happen to him? Virgil Oh they paid him give him enough money to get out from here so he wouldn't get killed, Scott Yeh, Iheard about that the uh the uh uh other tile Federal goverlrient give him enough money to relocate .... Virgil Yeh Scott \ ... I understand he caught i'over ahunderd people in uh various counties. Ross He did up in Virgil Yeh, yeh ---- and an~paught lots of 'em over there. Judy And what was his fiame? Virgil Uh Wayne Talbert. Ross Wayne Talbert, he's been in here and raised up here been over here(?). Virgil If ya ever see him awalkin' in the rain don't even pick him up, he's sorry he ain't fit to be picked up. That's right. Scott No, a person that'd pull a trick like that is sorry. Virgil Yeh, they're sorry, turn again' their friends .... Judy Uh hu Virgil ... he owns me twelve dollars and ahalf, now~ son of a bitch (laugh)I'd sold it to him on credit(laughter). Yeh, we had our trails through the woods jest as slick as uh bear trails, . ~ Yeh Virgil and we'd hide the stills and then sometimes they'd stay for uh two three months. Ross I told her about us tryin' to carry some out in a keg, you know, and uh I got one cause it was bout full thought it'd be easier to carry it out .. Virgil Yeh Ross . and that like to killed me. Virgil Thet jest go from one end to another and everytime they'd go down this way it nearly take ya down that way 'n' they go back. Ross Go back---- getcha back jest like your drunk. Judy Yeh Virgil If that barrel's full, you see, it won't slosh back 'n' forth but the wa1 it was it'd slosh back 'n' forth. Me and Alfred Garret made one day up: yonder~ after dark, we barrel, ten gallon, I believe, we brough it down had to cross in a boat and uh we let it slipe of the side of the boat, you know, in the bottom and it knock two pieces loose in the bottom of the boat 'n' we started crossin' and didn't notice, that water pour in the durn thing sunk with us right there(laughter) and it after dark. We uh we managed to land the boat and the'liquor Ross (laughter) Land the liquor that 'as the main thing Virgil Yeh didn't lose either one(laughter) then we waded out took !;)~ .. ~ uh saved the boat and the liquor. ~ Boy, bet that's cold wadin' outa there. Virgil Boy, there was spruce pines 1round this up there, you know, had got it under somethin'so the planes won't see it ... Judy Uh hu Virgil . . . There's spruce pines up there three foot through and we'd get under them, you know, hide wh1:Jre they couldn't see it. Sometimes we'd get by three months --- :\r Yeh, they can'fly by and see the smoke. Virgil Yeh or if it's open enough to see the beer when it's uncovered the boxes is white ... Judy Uh hu Virgil ... 'n' Southers' bunch, any of them .. !lQ._. They used Bill Harboro kinda of, ya know(?), Virgil ... Yeh or either get in the ivies, you know, where the ivies \;" was_c uh not' high you could get under them, you know, 'n' they hide the whole thing. From there Judy Uh hu Scott Where it overlap, the branch would overlap. Virgil Yeh yeh where the, 0 you know, where you walk in the ground you can see under 'em see but you couldn't see 'em on the top. Judy Uh hu Virgil There been as many uh gallon made that way hide. 1Jhen we first set, ya know, in there's hogs in the woods tame enough to come 'n' uh get in the beer. ~ and Scott Yeh Ross You know, I's tellin' them that Randy Southers and them back then theresa some more with 'urn. They could go to a branch and they could smell that branch, ya know. He'd get down and lay down 'n' smell .. Scott Yeh li2... ... and he claimed he could tell if there's a still on that branch. Virgil Yeh, that's right, he could smell it in the water.---- I guess they could taste it, ~ Yeh he could run you, you couldn't run off and leave him if he's in a open place, he could just fly. Virgil Another thing he brought young uh boys that just graduated from school 'n', you know, played ball. They'sa alot a times he brought them. They went around ya where you's makin' liquor, one of them was sittin' over yonder on a hill 'n' you'd run, if you a good runner. Scott He'd be there awayin' on ya. Ross You'd give out by the time you'<\ket there, he figured which way you'd go, ya know Virgil Yeh waitin' on ya. That's the way he made his biggest catch, 7o he didn't catch too many . liQll They caught my b~ther that time 'n' I went up there, I rode ' a horse up there, I was goin' take his dinner up there 'n' they asked me what I was doin' up there and I says I just go 'over here to bring some cattle in I says come by here and see what they doin' down here and he went around talkin' to Lewis Wright he caught Lewis Wright the same time, I think ... Virgil Yeh Ross ... I tried to get my brother to get on that horse, I said, C "jump on here and I'll take off he can't ca~h us atall". But they had done talk to him, ya know, and they knowd him wun't no use in runnin' then. Virgil Yeh Scott Well on on the runnin' buisness what they more less a uh agreement uh unwritten agreement between Southers 'n' the Reven and the uh uh whiskey makers. He wouldn't shoot nobody if they wouldn't shoot him others words if he he could run 'em down he'd catch 'em he wouldn't shoot 'em uh. Virgil Yeh Scott Whata that a more less agreement to stop the shottin'? 7/ Virgil Yeh, uh now, they did shoot uh this fella in back of the head up here. You remember Bob Kirby? liQM Yeh Virgil They shot him and it like to killed him but he lived but they wun't suppose to shoot nobody runnin', If you runnin' you ain't showin' no fight .... Ross They'd shoot over ya. Scott Yeh Virgil so, they ain't suppose to shoot ya a runnin'. Scott Well that's more or less an agreement there was an gentlemen's agreement. Virgil I jest, I jest, I think it was. Scott Yeh Virgil Yeh believe it was liQM Yeh jest an---- Virgil uh, I'd be ashamed to shoot anybody runnin'. Ross That's coward ain't it? Virgil Yeh they couldn't, they wouldn't be uh putt in' up no fight or: -1, nothin' they ain'/~ goin' harm them goin' the other way .... ,..,;;. Scott Yeh Virgil ... That'd be like an animal runnin' from ya to keep from shootin' him. Judy Did the police usually know that you had a still, I mean was it common knowledge? Virgil Not with us they did with some of 'em. ~ You know the way they'd find these stills, they'd go, leave their car over here and go right up here and walk across these hollers and look at the branches, you know, they called 'em branch walkers back then, they'd, then there lot of fellas didn't have nuthin' to do1kinda like bounty hunters, they'd find out where one of these stills. They'd go tell 'em where there's a still, ya know, and they'd give 'um maybe twenty five or fifty dollars. That's a snake in the grass somebody oughta kilJ;'"rr they'd l,nowd it they would. 73 Virgil Now they was always about uh three, two or three people in a settlement that would that. Scott Always a rat in every uh. Virgil Souther knew every on of 'em and he would, ~don't know what he'd that .!i2... give 'em to get 'em rea1J, do that .... L to do that but there was some of 'em You had to be awful careful ... Virgil .. enjoyed it ... that's the reason so bad tryin' to make it you scared you had to have steak outs to watch for you and everything. Virgil And they'd give ya a sentence then ... Judy Uh hu Virgil .. the Federal, if ya got a sentence you didn't pay out, now you can pay out, but then you had to stay. Scott A full year or whatever it was . Virgil Yeh, three months and three months up. I had two brothers had 7 to serve a sentence for makin'. They just got three months apiece, they had to serve it in jail, ya know. Judy Uh hu Virgil That's way the Federal done ya, they didn't want your money they wanted to stop ya from makin' liquor. Ross My brother, they give him three months in Alabama. Scott Yeh Virgil Yeh, he told me about stayin' at---Ross Bruce Virgil And uh he served sentence in Big Rock,too. Ross Yeh uh hu Judy Is, is he still makin' liquor? Ross No Virgil Lord God no, he don't make nor drink or nothin', now, he done enough of that when he was younger. Ross Yeh---- that was back in his younger days. JS Virgil He used to, me and him used to make together. fu2fil!. He's about seventy five or eighty years old. Judy God Virgil Yeh, he's up in seventy but he has made lots of it, drink lots of it. Ross Yeh Virgil I know he served two sentences with the Federal. Ross Yeh Virgil I've got my first one I don't think I'll get her. Judy Well, you didn't have to serve out that that time, did ya? Virgil No, I served it by runnin', ya see. Judy Yeh (laughter) Virgil I paid that fine a runnin', that ain't the only one I paid a runnin' either. Judy Quite a few of 'em, hu. '7 Virgil Boy, that ole' Clarence Joker(?) you, you remember him, me and him was makin' up yonder, We had a barrel and a bucket full of the prettiest, clearest liquor, we had work till in the evening, on a little thirty gallon copper still. Somebody hollered, I heard 'em 'n' I looked and I seen somebody. Theys fur as top the hill yonder(?) I could see 'em plain. They hollered somethin' 'n' I went under the s's, you know, come down like this them barrel's over here. I picked up a bucket of the clearest liquor you've ever seen and went under there and got a bug, you know, where I could get started arunnin' and they uh hollered, again, and I thought about yellin' something very vulgar at 'em, you know, and I thought well, I'd better wait a minute, I didn't holler at 'em. They started on towards me, I let 'em get down bout half way, ya know, I was younger then a whole lot and lighter in weight and I'd I could out run 'em at school, so, I wouldn't much uneasy about 'em crossin' the holler and catchin' me, We had to go over a hill and down a ivy thickit before we got to the river again. Ole Clarence said, Let's go says that's the law". I said, "oh hell, that's surveyors" he said, no it ain't" and he lid out and I watched him go out of sight, hit in the ivies up there and I looked around, watched 'um a few minutes longer. He'd been gone long enough tobeen to the river, I thought, but they on down a little closer they hollered at me not round again and I decided, wll, it wun' t surveyors it was the law. I lid out and I passed him before he got down in the river(laughter) 17 We got to the river and we waded out half way to the river . That was one Christmas Eve and uh we got up in the middle of the river and got up on a rock, I said, allpe jest wait right here, we got up that rock, I said if they come down the edge right there we'll beat 'em out, they can't catch us, So they, we never did see 'em no more but in a few minutes we heard 'em pound the boxes with the ax, kaboom kaboom, I said we jest as well to go tqfyre gettin' it. Boy, they did they tore it and got everybit of liquor we had. Judy How many different stills have you had? Virgil I guess about seventy five. How many years did ya make it? Virgil Oh from 1930 on till oh let's see bout 50 I, I might'd made a little in 1950, I don't know. Judy But you've completely stopped makin' it now? Virgil Yeh yeh, see the doctor stopped me from workin' this year I, I sell one my tractors and quit me up(?) and rent my land, don't work no more. He said not to if I wanted to live 'n' I told him I wanted to live ... Judy Yeh Virgil . .. so uh, see what I've done to the old couch they told me to come in, wore it out, somebody'llhave to give me another'ne(laughter) Scibtt Just layin' on it hu? Virgil Layin' on it, yeh. Scott Well your not goin' worry about the Federal agents do ya? Virgil Hu uh no, I ain't gain' worry about 'um, none of 'em. Judy . Yeh Virgil So they, prohibition run out down here, ya know, 'n' I just quit. Judy Yeh Virgil I got some pictures here the lastens. We got a movie of it, you oughta see that lasts an hour(?). Scott and Judy Of the still? Virgil and Ross Yeh Virgil We~ot a movie of it. Judy Of it runnin' Virgil Yes sir, the liquor ru~n us pourin' it up 'n' we'd make a gallon. Scott I got a projector at the house. Virgil That was brandy we made, you know, and everytime we'd made a gallon it was thirty dollars and we took it like wes goin' ender then we'd come back 'n' hid it over here, everytime we got a gallon. They put it on me when I'm uh went up thata way 'n' back and showed me through the trees, ya know, comin' way back over there to a big log where he hid it uh Bub's got that uh down there. Scott Got the film? Virgil Yeh yeh he's got the film down there, Theleaves, it's bout this time of the year, the leaves are yellow 'n' pretty. Judy Uh hu Virgil It's pretty, well I've got some of it some where in this little Kodax. ~ Who's Bub? Virgil Claude's boy. Ross Oh yeh Virgil One it uh lives at Smyrna. ~ That s his mother-in-law over there. Scott Would you have any idea, Virg how many gallons of whiskey that you uh have made or help make during your career? Virgil I wouldn't have no idea about that. Scott There no way you could uh estimate~t, is it. Virgil No, one time ~ Thousands of gallons in one. Virgil Yeh, I guess so, there's one place over yonder, we made on the side of the road, We kept count, we made twenty eight hundred gallon there. A little ole' dug out 'n' we could see every car that passed, Judy God Scott Yeh Virgil Yeh in one little ole'. Scott Almost three thousand gallon there. Virgil Yeh and uh that was about a, I believe that was a fifty gallon copper still, I never did work on nuthin' but copper. Judy Yeh, you use copper worm. Virgil Yeh, every bit of it was copper. Scott Did you always use a worm or condenser or did ya use both? Virgil Well we used 'em both. Scott Well, which one's the best? Virgil Uh,, you got plently of water cool 'em either on of 'em's the best. Scott One as good as the other. Virgil Either one of 'em will do it. Scott Which'll take the less least amount of water? Virgil The worm Scott The worm takes the least amount of water. Virgil You have to make a long box have it on(?) in the woods, if you can get one that long and let it pour in up here, ya know, 'n' circle back to the back then come back here and pour off. Scott and Ross Yeh Virgil See it's got a better coolin' system like that. Your worm two foot what we used to have 'n' hit was coiled, see your, I mean it has an elbow back here, you see, then it went back the way it come. Scott Yeh Virgil Run back here and go right back. 1i2ll Circulate it Virgil That water, you see, poured on it and it had, it went all the way, the water did and when it'd come out the front it was warm but cool run right back, ya know, 'n' see it cooled it good, it it was a good outfit. We made wheat liquor some did and rye, too. Scott Rye yeh Virgil Yeh, we made some rye liquor. Scott You want to taste of that uh uh? Ross No, uh I jest wondered if he had a fruit jar he'd sell me, I'd. Virgil Fruit jar? ~ Yeh you got one? Virgil I don't know Ross I's goin' put that some of that in there, when get to the house wouldn't have no way. Scott We'll we'll uh we'll uh . Virgil Well, what about uh Scott we'll go up to my house if necessary. Virgil We could fix somethin1 Virgil Kendall r -RELEASEDy letting us collect your traditions--stories, sonp:s9 l\1usic9 rememberences, or beliefs of earlier days--you have made a valuable contribution to preserving and understanding Southern history, and especially the uay of life of your coD1munity o Because you have r,iven unselfishly of your time to do this, the Georgia Folklore Archives~ ivhose representatives are dedicated to preservinr; these traditions'.>' ,,,ants to protect your ric;hts to this material by gu2.r~ anteeine that it will not be used for unscrupulous cowmercial profitso By sip;ninr; this sheets you arc giving us permission to use this material for educational purposes so that people 1-Iho are interested can understand how life was in the old days" If you don't want your name to be used, say so--we respect your rip,ht to privacyo Than!:. you for the time you have given to help us record a heritag:e that is an ia,portant part of American lifeo "In consideration of I'lY intent in helpine: to preserve ny folk heritar;e, I hereby grant permission to the Georgia Folk Archives and its Directorsi John Burrison,. to publish~ ot otherwise n!a1:e use of, the naterial recorded from me by the ar;ent of the Georgia Folklore Archives whose nane appears ou this sheet" Sig:e~ . ii N (i) ' i 11/ J- Ac;~e~~1J / , n,,,Erf I j 'f (2?' \ y{__.C.cJ.-.. - __ / J /LiJ,.,{ ' 1 i,f bztt:Y- -"'--/=-d' _i- J-/J-(_, -f-L-,y=-- -'---'iS::..C,.c:""---~-0_-1_ -t_/f __/ _ ____:::...,c'-4L-"~7----'-----=---.,="-~~ I Georgia Folklore Archives c/o Professor John Burrison Georgia State University 33 Gilmer Street Southeast Atlanta, Georgia 30303 Virgil Kendall When I started to leave the day I first taped Virgil he asked if we wanted to hear him play the banjo, He played a little and I~sked him if would care if I recorded some tunes of his ' and he said no, so, we got together, again. Virgil I live in the bright Skiner Valley and I'll play a little song "Bright Skiner Valley" is the name of it Do you think of the valley that you're leaving that I'll miss your bright eyes and sweet smile. Are you taking the sunshine with you that let Christ take my life for awhile. Well, how long may I wait little darlin' for those words that you never would say. And now my poor heart it is breaking for that memory has gone away. Come and sit down beside me if you love me cause I hasten to kiss me adue. Just remember that bright Skiner Valley and one you know that is true. Cripple Creek Vi!gil This is goin' up Cripple Creek, goin' in a run Goin' up Cripple Creek, goin' in a run. Goin' up Cripple Creek to have some fun. Goin' up Cripple Creek, goin' in a whirl. Goin' up Cripple Creek to see my girl Virgil Kendall A copper outfit taken by the Cherokee county Sheriff's Department in Holley Springs, Georgia. My favorite person in doing this project was Virgil Kendall. Virgil is a nice friendly old man but very lonely. He lives up a half passable rock road all by himself except a brother that lives about a mile away. When I second time we ate a tomato sandwhich and he told me about his land, that is very dear to him, and what all he planted this summsr. We went through the attic and he gave me two thirty year old magazines. I never realized how much fun you could have with a sixty six year old friend and when I go up Christmas he is going to show me all the pines he set out this summer. 92 A PDF transcript exists for this recording. Please contact an archivist for access. Professor John Burrison founded the Atlanta Folklore Archive Project in 1967 at Georgia State University. He trained undergraduates and graduate students enrolled in his folklore curriculum to conduct oral history interviews. Students interviewed men, women, and children of various demographics in Georgia and across the southeast on crafts, storytelling, music, religion, rural life, and traditions. As archivists, we acknowledge our role as stewards of information, which places us in a position to choose how individuals and organizations are represented and described in our archives. We are not neutral, and bias is reflected in our descriptions, which may not convey the racist or offensive aspects of collection materials accurately. Archivists make mistakes and might use poor judgment. We often re-use language used by the former owners and creators, which provides context but also includes bias and prejudices of the time it was created. Additionally, our work to use reparative language where Library of Congress subject terms are inaccurate and obsolete is ongoing. Kenan Research Center welcomes feedback and questions regarding our archival descriptions. If you encounter harmful, offensive, or insensitive terminology or description please let us know by emailing reference@atlantahistorycenter.com. Your comments are essential to our work to create inclusive and thoughtful description.