David Gardner interview with Bert Woody (part one)

The John Burrison Georgia Folklore Archive recordings contains unedited versions of all interviews. Some material may contain descriptions of violence, offensive language, or negative stereotypes reflecting the culture or language of a particular period or place. There are instances of racist language and description, particularly in regards to African Americans. These items are presented as part of the historical record. This project is a repository for the stories, accounts, and memories of those who chose to share their experiences for educational purposes. The viewpoints expressed in this project do not necessarily represent the viewpoints of the Atlanta History Center or any of its officers, agents, employees, or volunteers. The Atlanta History Center makes no warranty as to the accuracy or completeness of any information contained in the interviews and expressly disclaims any liability therefore. If you believe you are the copyright holder of any of the content published in this collection and do not want it publicly available, please contact the Kenan Research Center at the Atlanta History Center at 404-814-4040 or reference@atlantahistorycenter.com. -- This is the first of a two part recording; in this part, David Gardner interviews Bert Woody about bear hunting. Woody starts by recalling praying with his dogs before bear hunts. Next at 4:23, he looks back on killing his first two bears; Cotton Maguire, a fellow bear-hunter, assisted him with the second kill. Then at 8:50, Woody describes the hunt in which he killed his biggest bear which killed one of Maguires dogs. At 15:00 he discusses his hunting dogs, called Plott Hounds, who were bred to hunt and fight bears. Next at 19:42, he speaks more generally about bear hunting, such as what time of year is best. He also explains how he became a hunting guide and ways that the Forest Service advertised his guided hunts throughout the United States. Then, at 22:32, Woody provides biographical information about where he was born and his employment history. The recording ends with him recalling his work as a logger in several states, including Oregon. -- Bert Woody (1896-1983) was born in Cherokee County, North Carolina. When he was three years old, his family moved to Graham County at the headwaters of the Tellico River. He attended school through the fourth grade. In 1920 he married Essie Abercrombe (1897-1970), and they had three children: Bessie (1925-2003), Cecil (1927-2002), and Betty Ruth (1936-2017). After he married, he operated his familys farm, worked as a timber cutter in the spring and summer, and led bear hunting trips as a Forest Service guide in the fall and winter. For 15 years starting when he was 45, Woody worked in logging seasonally in Oregon. In 1972, he married Laura Stewart (1901-1977) and retired from logging to raise wild European pigs to sell to hunting clubs. He died in Oregon and was buried in Monroe County, Tennessee. -- BEAR HU1TTIT:TG TALES Interview vdth iWr~ Bert Woody by David Gardner University Folklore l;Ol Fall Quarter, 1973 CO:NTEi\!TS Introdu.ction Begin Tapi, I The Prayirig Dogs The First Bear He Ever Killed The Second Bear Hunt with Ootton Maguire Th~ Bigg~et Bear The Plott Rounds }1Unt on Oit.ico Begin Tape II 11How the Whale Got Joney" Hunting with Newt Hooper How the :sear Meat Was Divided Oookin:g Bear Meat Hunting with :@?'neat Clemons Bert Woody and the Government Job Th& Last Bea!' Hunt - with Elbert Martin Loading the Muzzle Loader and Molding Bullets A Close Call with a Bear Th& Fark on Hoop&r Bald Map Pbo;tographa ii 1 l 5 8 9 16 16 19 20 20 21 25 24 26 28 50 ,2 Tnt:rodr1.cti0n Graha:rn County, the home of Nr .. Bert Wood;:/ 9 lies in. the scrut,hFeste:r-n portion of' North. Carolina,, It is bounded en the north by the Gres..t Smok,y M-ou.ntains National Park and on the west by Mor1roe Gount:r, Tennessee" Eighty percent o:f' the land in Grahmn Co1mt7 is mo1.nrts.inous forest land which is 011:ned by the federal government and n1.e,naged by the Forestry Service,., Timber companies and small farmers ac,co1JJ1"t, for: most of' the other t1:renty percent .. Logging operations began there around the time of the First World War and are still going on at the present date.. Most or the virgin timber has been cut by now, of course, but local people who a:re farn.iliar with the remote areB.s of' the co1m-ty say that small tracts of virgin timber sre still standin.g in some of the more inaccessible nooks in the mountains .. The Jo;y-ce Kilxner Memorial Forest, Nhich is tn Graham Cou.11,ty, is a thirty-eight hundred acre t:ract of virgin 1'.rilderness, and the only sizable forest of this kind in t,he Southeastu Graham County is the home of t,b.e Snowbird Cherokees, part of' the band of Cherokee Indians who fled to the mou:ntsdns in 1838 before the infamous Trail o:f Tears march to Oklahoma,. Because of' the large 2o:moc.1,;1t, of densely forested lar,.d and the relatively small humnn popu1aticn, the county abounds in game~ Bear, deor, turke:r, grouse., raccoons. and sq""Ldrrels are fm.xnd in the forests,, T.hs Santeelah 1!1ilcllife He.nagement Area and the Tellico Mana3;ement Area in 11:e:J:nessee s.Te f2.mc.iJ.S for their T5r .., Woody 1;Ias born on Siept8mber 11, 1896., in Cherokee County, Worth Caron10,. red v.p t--o the hec.d.1;-:rat.ers of the Tellico River ir:1. Gr2.l1am 001..xnty. There 'bis himself says in tb.e v-rorl 1 tuh eat,. but arsh tats rs 11"',, 11 on his s after he as a a.nd s :..m:rrner and as a by the Forest th.8 Tenness0e - As a best he moved s,round l but he al v-12.ys to hunt in the Ct!'es. ico and 0:i tico R:brer f'ollovred He continued to i,n lfo:rth Ga:rolina,. ldld c11.-1bs my -eye when I r1JELS with a :i:riend the Kilmer and He is for wild Russian boars, us over to the pen behind the hcn,.tse where the older 1.:p some ears of' corn on way* He the there must have been a dozen of' the:m-- each on their backs and sides,, ,If a acted and tried to iii steal an ear of' corn from e.nother, he vw;,.;.ld scold it sauri,dly, and if that did not msJ.ce an im.presaio:n., he would a..im. a kick at :l tii As h1:J IDDved a:rnong the pigs 11 he gave us a short sketJh cf the.ir :LndividilB.1 personalltt0s, always ending: tlp tbe past1:.r,, and spent e,boit thirty mii:rlrl:.sa, trying t,;( find.Wit', his only l"u'l:l~ ' gro1'rn boar, who is more reticent than the females.- Aft'er we got a g1irnpse of'. with thsir mothers. As we walked, the conversation turned to animals in the wild, and Mr,. lfoody told us tP.at he had been a hunter .and guide in hi_s yoi-mger daya., \'ie prodded him with questions .e.nd found tr;}).t,, lie; 119-a not at all reluctant to .t&l8.t1' a tale .or two a.bOut his bear hun~ing daya.. I do not remember that first tale very well, but at one point he digr.,s&e,d and issued a spirited attack against the \me o:f teleil-t,opes on rifl~e in t,he mounteJ.ns,. saying that they were oompletel:i/ mitli,iia, We were shown the little pigs, which had an endearing babit of lying do'rr.t and rolling over to be sors.tohed, and we ended up agreeing to buy one when we came back through I asked him if he would allot! me to record some of h:i,s Btories at a later date, and he agreed to do so, if he could rem.,mber any. lle invited us to stay to dinner, but we declined, telling him 1're would stop on our feturn trip and pick up the pig we had a5lected .. On our next visit, we came equipped with a tape reoorder and talked with Mr. lfoody for about three hours, although not all of this was recorded, lie also had the pleaeur& of m&eting Mrs, Woody, who wae somewhat more reserved than her husband but-very kind. She gave us a big bear roast and instructed us in how to prepare it. When we asked the lfoodya if they would come outside and let us photograph them in f'ront of their house, they consented, and Mrs. Woody asked her husband if he didn 1t think he should put on his pretty red je.cket. Mr. Woody ref'used, saying, "If they'd wanted a picture of a purty man, they could've stayed in Atlanta." iYIR .. WOODY t ., ., .. Coon dawgs 7 bair da1;.i;igs, I usta havelt uh, back 'v?here I usta drive f'er the state and the govermint,- yuh know,- ~n I 1z a guide fer years, yc.:th know.. Ari I had two dawgs an got 'UJJl suh well trained, }'l.,lh lmow, 12.t ah'd hab 1)1Q tuh p:ra.y' yuh bi.elf, before ud turr:i. UI.11 lo-ose .. An uh, they'd come tuh bair track, an I'd termn U..111'$ I Id say, 11We11, Jeff, it 1s a big bair an uh g1),ess hit 1s R bad un~ I ht=\-te tuh turn yuh loose, but uh guess ytl. 111, uh, prob1ly ah111 never see yuh agin .. An v.h guess yuh' d better pray before uh turn yuh loose, hadn I yu..h.7 11 An they'd they'd both git, they'd - they1d put their hea.ds dolsm, yuh 1motr, an jus 1 go tlill howlin1 , nooooooh ---oowooowoo ..... ,,n An u.11 1d say, ''Well,- uh guess that1s enQugh, Jeff~ 11 An ah'd turn one loose, an he 1d jua 1 go 'bout :Porty feet an he'd stop .. l1ell, ah knowed when he 1 s gain 1 tuh stop an then I'd = I'd say, 11Yuh' d better wait on yuh buddy hadn1 ;y1,1h, Jeff? 11 Well, an I 1d turn thruddn loose and I 1d say, 0Go ahead, now .. n But, yu.h see, 'em da,fgs uhd jes be a-tremblin', they t1uz wantin' t;;ili go auh bad, an whut 1;,rtm makin 1 1em pray, yuh k:no'tT, v.rtlz me a-talkin 1 tuh um~ wanted to git gone, ycth know, that wu~ ~be id.ee**" DAVID GARDNER : Yeah., They thought the dawg8 ~,J1..1.z really s:keered. I tol I v.m 1 em dawgs in.1. z. skeered-- I said, "They dres.. d it jus' as bad as I do~ 11 But I guess 1 bout the I! cl t1-xrn th I uddn loose* Well, they .,,:ent tuh openin 1 up s.n, well, then I 1 cl. say, 11\'fe,ll, boys, Yre 1 d uz we11 turn tb. e rest vs tl.m 1 hout, I said, nThey ort tuh 'know 1;,;hat I 1m talkir1 1 1 b01,1t., u Are those the u.p with the 1 <l tel 1 1:s1n that. more interested in seei111 the tu.rned loose than !l would yo1,1 have to chase a before er miles back up one mo>,J.,nt-ai:o. an dcnrm. th 1 !I ' " But the mo1.1ntai:ns an tuh An 1VUZ ' I I z thair in st few minutes,, The 1:ru.z fa h.r d the race~ When I thsre mad or uh cain't travel, but D Are ' c 111 outr1..111 a dawg fer a good ways, a long ~i:rays - but when they turn up uh mountain, uh 111 overtake em an stop - a:n they go tuh he.mrain 1 1Jm., '11 G : Hamxnin I um1 Yuh mean bi tin 1 um on the W : Bi tin I u.m - yeah - bi tin 1 them hips~ (He D : Will ever kill a bear, or they ,. ~" W Naw, I ain1 never had not one tuh.kill uh bair, but uv had dem tuh 'bout kill muh G You never have lost a dog to a bear though1 Iifo, I never - I huntin 1 with another felle:r's da1,;,g an ! i1n kill --- he, he let me take him a-huntin 1 an he got kill=-- that the only one that ever got kill,, I 1ve kill fifty-five bair muhself\,"'* I 1se along '>Then a lot more Wl.1.Z killed. D : Do you remember like the first bear that you killed1 W i Yeah, I remember the first un,, D ;: How old were you then? ll :: Oh, I 1-ruz 1bout t:wenty-five, I guess,. G How did that W Well, we turned loose, we thougb,t we turned - well, we turned. loose on some hair wl':1ere he Id been a-reJ.dn I fer chesnuts 1 an the rt.1.11 it 2.n it wen 1 int.uh the up the river an it come back dovn.1 1 ;;r"Ah see5 I met it an it cross the I shot G 1f!hat river ws.s - was it? W : Tellico River G Tellico? w Uh Tellieo River ::ct bove Tell.ico Pl'ains - from the Nawth : Tha 1z the first uu, then ! thank the next iJn 1;,.i'_,1z uh ::vent tub Cotton 1 :s out tuh Hooper Bald an Got ton come af'ter me .. I uz aHful busy s.-workin 1 an he come after me -tuh go ,, "'., go wid him, an he said they' s bunch uh ht.ts"'"lters out thair an he said ain1t killed 2- Muh tub. 1,-ihai:r ' " Blufs nine hour s.n nobody couldn 1 hn.d been s.-hu.:nt-in 1 ten days~ Re he said, ;1they're ruinin' muh dawgs, ll " He said the;;r' d :f'i t in the in thair~ Well 7 when I had tub. go w' Qot- I vren,.:, out tuh tbe Bald - his \life eo:me m.;.t th I door when I come up a11. " u I said, n I _don! k:11,,:::,1;; a bm..1.t be in. 1 Suh fer nine b2s.ir on.e 1.1.Ine hoz:1.rs pass" 11 I shot 'im 1ebb 1 r. tiniss 1ais ws.dn it un ls.is time I shot an turned fi:rcnJ.n I an I u.z, foot from an he ritn s. t me ~ An I Trru.z. 3 I T 17:Ls h2.m.s fa11 mnh bsRr -1--P to kill it7 : A T h on the the D GG w "11- ! k,-.l-"' Do you rerc1ember the: thi we tied VJ.11 on a 1 ike 1..1,h :"our ':ivs the.t soed i h)J-:1te:rs a:n s.11 l2, Did yon s2,v,s the hide or tcount I hr1d of T -four 6 aroun r an come dzy,rn, a.n piok us up that evenin I over 1t the hiih1rray, goin 1 up Tell= ico River, -S.n we turn1;;;,1J. - 1ien""c. a good long \'Jays.~ We -1::urned 1oose on a bair1 si track yqh !cno,,.:r 1 an they jumped this bair out, an uh, well, I guess it r 1Jn ten f'ifteeri miles an hit cut rnuh dawgs ixp 1::1,rful% There 1 s ju.nt s. red road al1:uost 1rJhere the dawga an bair 1;,rt1z goin 1 "' But It d shot the bai:r ui th f,,vo - tb.ree tirnes with a forty-f'ive, but I wuz shoo tin! it more in the hams Jl nn 1n.tddin I zi ttin I it dcn:v:11, an I wu.z J;\,,lKL"'lin 1, I 1d run tell I get sick an 'wuz vomitin1 at this time, an there's uh your1g f'eller 1-ri I me, long-lagged s:n slim, he could jus I keep right wi 1 me all dayil An uh, he 3uz goin' up a little draw-, an I 1z waitin1 f'er 1im tuh turn sideways soze I could get 1im in the ribs o:r sunn:ners, an uh, he turned aidewa,ya. A da.i;ri caught I im by the front leg, an he Hheeled on the de.trg an when he done that, I shot 1im 1bout through the hear't or lu:ngs with a f~rty-fiv.e, and he turned, come right bac1-t arottn 1 , started he?-din 1 fer us, yuh know .. I tol i the boy, ! said, 11Run, Onus"--- 1is Onus Bradford tru.z his name I said, "Rt,m, Onus, 11 I se,.id1 11He 1 s- gonna git usln An he nm S:rou,n 1 ' thf3'_hill one .vray an I run the other~ Well, I looked back: an the dawgs 1,ruz a-fight.in'- - b.ad it caught by "t,he he.ms, they ts had a bout eight or nine dawgs on lim,, .A:n they had 1i'.r.n by the he.ms a.n they wuz goin t around tryin1 tv.h get ahol r uh the da_vrgs, but he w1.2,z gett:Ln 1 s:wful sick, J7J.h know .. An I jes looked at m.uh gun an hit wuz, still cocked back an I lG-Jowed it wudc1n1 ,.8:r:npt~:9 I kncrwed it r'.1.d another shot in it, an I jua 1 1t.rheeled an run be.ck, an by time I got 00.ck 'to it, it seddcn1m on these dawgs I heads, y1.1h know .. An uh - an I jes run right ur.0."1er his face an shot it right in the f'ar 1 d an it dropped dovm~ Th.en this one da1:Ig t.hat got killed, that1s -the one I 1z te11in8 1bout gettin1 killed, hit jes 'walked off' an laid do,m, an the blood r,,ruz runnin I of'f his sides an do;;m his neck, an these other dawge jea all quit the bai r an 1tralked over t ere an 1-,rent tuh lie.kin' the blood off this dawg, an I told that boy, I said, uThB. tis a dead df:P:rg, 11 I said, 7 "he's keeled,n I said'9c "Them dawgs knows he's gonna die,,11 But uh, we picked 'im up an carried. 1im otit, an he diednex11 dayo We hauled - it. took 1bou:t five of us we got uh, Uh boy "With uh little ol 1 truck wa.ggin sawed outa blackgum wheels, an hau.led it tuh the road~ Hit tuk about five or six men tuh load it 'Up in the back o:f' a piok-up. It ju.a 1 about fill the back in 1 of a pick-up. a.~ t But you. used that cart to carry the bear to the roatl7 \': Huh7 G'_ You used the cE,.rt to carry. the bear to the roa.d-1 W t Yeah.. We loaded it on that an he had uh mule hitched tuh the cart, pulled it tuh the high,:;,ray. G Would the m;ule the mule.7 didn 1 t get spooked pull in 1 that He went right along. G Ho1,1 - ho?T many people 1,,muld ue:w.lly be :tn a bear 1r11n;_+-1 n 1 party1 G i And you'd put some people on s+..and? of' He goods 8.YJ raarketn ~lell, 11 he Raid,"-tell 1im ";ref'f :f -That 1L Wh.H:t kin1 of - whr:1t kind of doge '>rere thoseT They're Plott. Plott Hounds ---but nov1 they orapped bofe tb,11+, color in They wl1Z - their dad and mother both 'jnuz big brinnel Plotts - d3:rk b:rinnel .. .Q; Brindle? V : Brirlnel, yeah. G Bro,mish1 lf ; Brovrnish an streaked, Jr"J.h k:rtm:.r.. Re.118:s I rou:nd thair heH.d :s-1.1 faoe an lag an a.11 c..bout on th' body .. D : Hbw much did those dogs \\reigh1' W : Ah --- guess them. da.1;,rgs weighed 'bcnxt n'.Lnety pot:mds apiece. Wel.1 1 thatr:Jn on th;3 right would a-weighed more - hit - I guess he Id weigh close tuh hu.r;rierd pounds <1' They w1,1z, heavy da wgs $ ]2 Where are they from originally? Do you k:nowf 1 Wal, the Plott boys, .I don1t knO'w~ Plott brothers raised 1.1m an got 11,,m_ started .. Thats what give the na.me of the Plo-tt, the Plott brothers raised '/JXU They .k:ind fer ba.ir dawgs, yeah. Huh? They bred 1.un up s6me w-e .. y for bair dawgs ~ I don! t k:now what they I rigina. ted fromi. 9 Q_ ; Where were the Plott brother.a f'r-om, do you 1<1101:J'? ! : They's f'rum }Iawth XeY'line:r in here T!.eXt tuh theBB Smoky !\fountains some- Do they - do people sttl1 have - are there still a lot of Plott clogs aroundf W Oh, yee.h. I seen a big Plott dog there in a car while agolk Feller bten a-huntin 1 ,, G: : Did you ever .... ,,... ... did you ever b::ive any pups by any "~.., !.__; Oh, lot,s of' unh Ever one of their pups would, when J/U.h first tuk ,.,un out, yuh could raise urn here in a lot - then :Jhen you tuk um in tJ-1 1 woods, I 1ve had tun a = at when yuh come tuh hot be.ir track, where i-t 1d be8:n. fra.eh, yu.h kqow, he 1d been gone jea a little whil-e, they1d bite yu.h i:f. :y1.J..1. didn1 tu:rn um loosso They they1d turn back on ye* They wuz mean - the;sr wru.z wantin 1 tuh go at,ter the bair su.'h bad, yuh krlow* Hit iruz jes bred in tun from genaratio:b. tu,,h generation, I guess, tuh fight bair9 That Wl1Z wh..at they :w-i.tz used fer" Well, they w1.1z good coon dawgs too4 \"/hen when you set people on a stand, -would you set 'em up in the gaps1 Sometimes uh not al together in the gaps fer ba:lr, becau.se I set um in the roughes 1 'Where there ts a lar 11 er rhodod.6ni;,,un thicket come 01.it the top ivy and rough cliffs-i1 Well, they - bair - t1d go through th8m kinda places. An you set Jru up in them places, an that rs 1tThen yu.h get the bair~ These open gaps, Jc.hey a bair donrt go through them~ G U:ni fmlm,. 0 fl \1 That I s a good deer stand or a hawg stan I but not hair~ G- And you just figured if someone WRs Cf!Taitin' in those roughs, then the bear would --- then the dogs vmuld chase the bear into one of those places'? on Citico on a bair hunt, yuh lmow, ss1 he tol I me he - nex I mornin I he s::3.id, nBert, 11 he aaid,., nr ;,rant you tuh 'tell me whu.r I kin go an git tuh se~ a bair tcd.aJ/'11> 11 "Wal,'' I said, nwhere 1d you stand at yasterday?'l! Ee tol 1 me up the creek there at 10 s. t," ox1 I said, 11look U,p th-0 mountain yuh 111 see a big blu.ff go in I round, a;e hit Is a a solid big ivy thicket .. ij I aaid, "Go .. right up in the nt:i.ddle 9:f' the>t- thicket, an i~ I can get n hair up t.,oday, 11 I said, "hetll eome right.. through t..here,, 0 I said, nthe 11 I shot, b . ..rt, n he said, (Chuckle") An it went on over an there wuz two more ru.en over there.. One had went tuh see v-rhat th 1udder Tfttz a-hearin 1 or seed anything~ JJ:.n the bair come down right by them, an they started in a-s hootin t, an they bojch shot em})ty, the las ' one done shot empty an ruz1, and th 1 udd 1n shot his last shot an broke his neck an he Tell thair,. Big Pair~ Killed it thair'i< er What time of the year would you start bear hux,tin'? W About the fifteenth uh October. G And then }runt on through the u, :e lf __ ; Oh, go ,;:;n up tuh nex 1 tu}1 Chris I mas ,, G' And oiould you hunt j1.!St about every da;, durin1 t':lat ti.me7 11 ! ; Well, uh. - I hunted two Two-day hunts.;.. I hunted f'our days a week .. But if yuh lost - uh, uh day, you got the da11rgs lost er surn.p 1n a:n didn I get tuh hu.nt nex ! day, then yuh got til nex 1 day tuh hLl.D.t., An then you had Friday an Saturday,.,..,,, Thursday, P''.riday Monday, Tuesday, WednesdRy, Thurs:dny, Fri~ety e.n Saturday"' I tried t:uh get the hu.""lts ove.r on uh. six days. - uh. on uh :f'ive days, four days,. so they 1 d 1 et mcl1 de. wgs rest~ the nex 1 :t,Jeek they wuz another hunt a-com:ln "' See, them daw,ge ud get i:?arda !, : Everwhur - from Ohio - from - some frcnn Californy an ever =- from all ove:r the United Sts.. tesf) D Well, how did they _get in tou.ch w::tth youT How did they ~w-1!1 an in the papers .. Write it in the they these hu.ntsw Then I got so much a. h1).:rd::,"' Ctef Did y-01). wcrk for the Eh, he Service dolio.r of From that ti:rtte in W Yeah.,. That and come from ' on the G Did you - d:id your fRther farm on i:,he 13 G And you could ::;et by on tm.t1 G Yeah. D How many p-eople we-re 1n your family1 W t Wal - nex1 mornir11 afto:r 11112,h dad an mom wuz mRrried, they h.ad six chillerr1<> An that 1s about the size the family ;,ruz,, D Who had the children bef'ore they got m.arriedT ! t Ws.l, Dad an Mom. both, they had three apiece .. D Uh h::th, w- Dad 1a f'i:rst wife had died and muh mother 1s husband, he got killed by lightnin' st:ru.ck I iln., Got- struck by lightnini,. Shelter 1n under a tree, :rub kno'w, an lightnin1 struck the tree an killed 1im,,, Q. Ho1;,1 olrl v1ere you 1,ihen y'all --- didn't y!all move doi.,m to the Tellico river7 lt : Yeah, we moved do1,o1n tuh the head of the river~ Oh, I 1cruz eif;ht o:r nine years old when we moved there,,, 1Ife lived th.air then fuh years, til I wuz married, then I moved 'rou.n.1 everwhar, D; toggin1 'f worked Ohio an Georgie an, an Oregon, an W : La.':rgin f, yeah11 I followed up -the lawgin' jobs,. cut timber there fer 1bou.t fifteen year~ The last w,cfrk I done there, I - I barked an :scaled. I w"u.z \'7orkin I in the fir and bals~""' spruce, I mean* Fir, we 11, there \fTLlZ some spruce, hemlock, there" Yuh call it here hemlock. An cedar. D : Did you ever use ox teams to haul the logs out1 No, I 1ve - .,:,re 1ve used horse.a. Used lots uh horses., I used tuh lawg with horses~ That uz back when I 1ruz yot-mg, I drove a team a lot,, Then I went tv11 cuttin1 timberw Then most of the work I ever done in the woods wu,z cuttin' timber., Pull by haild@ They didn I have the power saws then., They 1JJ8.-d:n! no sech thing as a power sa,-r. Never heared tell uv it'! (} How old were you when you first went to loggin' 1 W Oh, I guess I I z I bout eighteen"' 14 G Where 110,s -that at1 !. At up - on - uh --- North River .. ,, .. on Big Cove.- G- I kno1:v where that ........ Was that virgin timber there when you cut it?' W ! Yeah it tTJ.z all virgin timber, an ., ,. ~ G- What kind of timber \-ms in there mostly? W : Wal, oak an poplar~ ches 1nut an 4 ~ $ G The chestnut was still growin 1 dovm here'? Oh, yeah .. Ches 1nuta w11z all just full le, They - they wad 1:n a dead limb in a ches 1nut tree at dat time~ They 1,1tm jus 1 big ches 1nut trees 'j four an five D; That rightf tr ; Poplar was about the biggest treef Yeah. Pople.ra, uh - the biggest oak: w-iJ,z cut up 'thair vluz - the butt, la wg wi,.,12, left up tbe.ir, they oouldn1 skid it, hit WUZ, S'U.h big .. I thank it tlZ a bot:rt seven :foot through,. They tried tuh block in an never did get it in,, D They tried to block it in'? Oh, with a block and tackle? W Block and tack1 e, yeah. G : With e. G With a team pullin~ the block: and tackle, and they still cot,1.ldn 1-t move it:? w theref G Htrw long did you 1-og around the Tel J.ieo area? in l'lell~ that 'Wtiz on the waters of the Tellieo but :t t w1.;2, on the v-1here the mozt of' it"' G What was Y-uh see;; w 1-s=~ :'.l oi, -, It 1,mz the Tellico River Lumber T I out the head or f'bre to vrork most of that over the har;.d mill T abo G I Bu:t riow !) then \+ ! 11 .t. '' ,10 .~, rne I Gs t 1..1.p tha r r101.; s tho Bless ';;/er dear smJ1., it to End of' Tape I TAPE come 1 ere ' and cnrer G t,s:,0; b 1 the whale Be didnL ketch 1im but si-r&,11ered 1im wbole! 1 b.nd 17 God 1001<-::e-d -dotr.tI on ol 1 J.o!ley e .. n tol 1 i in Jc.ib. r:o do'WJ:1 Tub that wicked ol 1 t 1:>':J:t1* Tell 'om he 111 jes give 1im :forty more daye t'uh g-r;;d:. bumbled di,1rr1,i So Jc;nc:r eaiQ, *I 1rr,. B- tr11e Hard~2he11ed Be.::,t.is't 1 so I'll not gt)~ 1 Ee made of'f 001111 tt,1_h the -coaHt in gr-ea.t haste An he boded a ship fer nother ple.ce. An the Lof' s0t the wind to bloi-;, t.u..h twist a-21 bJ.h ,:.,:1..,ts-:::,;:;2:ie An the sea Sl'Oi::. rowdv ftnd kicked UP 1is heelst, u w 01 1 Joney c.onf'essed it 1ruz ca1J.sed b~r his sins, .An the crew threw b.:Lm. cnx'c and a "tT11&..le tvJ-r: 1i:m in,.. That ol t 1Jbale le.y do1-rc1 on a bed uh gresn seaweeds tub. rest, Says, 'I111 sleep me li 11 nap "f;hile muh :f'ood di-.~csts,, ! But he's ru.ther afratd; Ee 1s r1w1bbin 1 on the inside, an the ol I prophet prs.yed. He said, 1I mus I pull tuh shore now purty q_ldck, Fer this filthy o1 t Binner' s et-makin' :me sick.' So he :makes his big e;/e, and he 1,J:i.ggled 'is tail, An he pulled intuh shor0 tul1 delive"" the mail~ So he pulled up near the sea sb.ore, > an he -turned on n.round, An he vo:mi t.s oi I Joney pl tunb out on the groun'. Said., 1After three days an nights, ol 1 sucker, you've found That a good man is hard tuh keep dcn'I'.th 1 {Laughter.) Oh, Lord, I dunno jea :made it up,i, D: You made it up1 ! t Naw, I dunno,.. I learut that -back when I was yom1g. GI 'llhen when, uh, you would go t-0 guidin I these peopl,e from other places to huntin 1 , were there ever anybody who co,.,:ld keep up with youT These people from the cityf !.; Never wt:tZw Never nobody tuh - that one boy that wuz with me 1;,1hen tJL killed that one certain bair vJt:tz only one the. t ever kep 1 up,., N"ow they would ke~p up fer bu_t jast abou.t the t:bne I got ready tt:fr1 tuh leave fem, why they give out.-. They could go a q1..w.rt0r, sometime a good yo.1.J..,,vi.g me,n would !"'loller me fer a haf'-a-mahl ill' But when it got fuddern that, I :never did see 1em no more .. o- I{61J' do you reckon you were able to run so wellZ Just all that hard work loggin1 1 W Yeah, I reoki.n',,. G You logged aro'Lllld here a:nd right up ,. * 18 !!, : Oh, yeah - hit - hit1s like I u,se tub tell 1em, Jri1h knuw~ The.y t d come out an they Id say, uh, "How d I yuh do tha t1 11 I had big long chin whiskers* 1 way down t1.~h here, yuh lmow, uh, see, the gover:mint -- I had -t.uh wair them, :r~h know 9 jes fer ou-roaty_, yuh 1.ccmw~ They, but I - I tol I I ,mz lot olde:rn what I omz. They'd ask me how old I wuz. I'd say up in the seb1nties, yuh kn.ow. long the :re, yuh know. I'd say seb1:nt;rr and they scdd, uh, "How do yuh do thatil~ said, "Uh old a man as you air'i" ''Val, u r said, "You-uns cain' t never do 1 t, ll I said~ ~'"I said, 11 ! w'J.Z raised back up here in the mountains .. I wuz raised tough. ti I sa:id, 1LOte uh times we didn 1bave a thang in _the worl 1 tuh eat. but arsh taters, yuh know .. 11 'Ooures I 1z stretchin1 it a little bit, yuh know,. An I said, an then I said, uYou uns smokes them aigrettes. n I said, ifYub. l'U.ngs is, is daubed. f'ull uh that srr:o){e. 1 n nya coated nll in thair," and I sB.id.1 11tvhen you rur1 a hu.11."".lerd er two yards~ I said, "yuh lungs goes tuh bumin1 in thair, I said, then I said, wmine je-5 e.'gettin 1 cooled off"' 11 I aaid, "I'm jes gettin 1 ready I said, ulfllffl'n you is gived out, n I, eaid, "I 1m ju.a I limbered u.p an gettin 1 sta.rted~ ir smokin I ne:x: 1 fall when I come backcy u (Chuckle*) slingt11 Lcd:,sec tiraes I t,uk it of':r the strop though, whan I turned. the dawgs loose_, a b:r , on not back that T G fire be cvo1 a T cf' the lxave some in this here an -turn the an i:P it COIQBB An :i.f f'oller -t}ne you ths.t bai;r an comes " I " 20 If there ten, 1.rhy, it uz cut in ten p1..-e~ee,:,; If if uz The hwYJ.S ' uz, cut in ten p:i.ecea an so's thal,:, everbody, evorbotl~r got some ham, an eve_rbod;f got v.h whatever it vn).Z, yuh krv:iw,! It uz divided in ten parts, if' they 1111z ten in the party. Well, then hit vruz cut up here an piled upso The:n one man stayed in thair a,11 some body else went back in the room - in a diff'erent room - y1,tl1 know 1 where they oouldn' see, They cou1Chi1- 1see1 an then this man put his hand on a pile say, well John 1s or Bu.d 1s or Bill 1s or wba:tever - whoever i+.:, w1..tz tu. have it. An they jea turned an ha.'lded - put hit in a bag an handed :i.t tuh that man, 'Then, 1Whoae this111 Well, kep on till he got 1em all, Didn1 know - nobody did.n' know whoee band that man who's te11in1 whose pile is wuz - didn 1 know whose pile it wuz er what kind uh pile it w11z, but it ,,rc!Z all divided des as eekelly as could be That 1-s the ;,my Gott.on Maguiri?, yu.h see, he WllZ more the head :ca.an uh them hu:rlt~ An that1s the way he had it all divided, r:tlth ever man that uz on the' hunt* ]! : 'ffha-t was the best part of' the bBar to ea.tf W : I guess the hams~ But, uh, back when thereBs lotsa ohes 1nuts an lotsa mai.st.* an beech maist - stuff- yuh. kaovr, they wuz all :Pat a:n they \JU.Z good. Bl1.t now they bairs- e:r suh pore now,- yu.h don 1t care what yuh eat jjl to* tough, huh1 DI Did you get part of the meat too1 !. I Oh, yeah, I got part of it~ But I - Obi:.ton, Cotton had the dawgs when I httnted t,herth Fer the first ten years .. D Did you have any special llay of' cookin r it that you. liked to ",., cook it W Wal, uh, muh wife cooked it-n She 1\!UZ apashul on cooki:n1 wile meat." .. er *mast 21 any kind u11 meat"' An sne, she stewed it, then started. cook 'em a little while,, An uh thin.'< she put a 1i -:Ctle sody in An that tu1c all the blood, clotted blood everthing off of' it,, An she cOok 1at a while an then she tu.,l{ it out an washed it, then put ii back on an cooked it,, An she cooked it til it got termer,, Y-uh see, it vn.1z a bi13; roast, like a piece out uh big harrL er sumpn 1 ~ big squair. Why, she cooked that til :1:t tend.er, o-ourse she put pepper an, in barbec,ie sauce an stu..f:f on it, yuh 1-:now,,,, .. a tter she tuk it out uh that%~ t, an it got good an -:Cenner, The11 she pu.t it in the st-0ve an,_ an baked it in B.ir til it got q, good light brown.~ An she had the pepper an everthing on it, I di.dn 1 lea..rn 1/c nl 1 * S! : Would you ever - like SO!!iB of those nights when yot:i had to spend -the night out - would _you ever ea-t pa.rt af th.e meat right there orf the spot; thing li~e tha-tf vve killed. one on -u,h hea.d 1:1.b. Slick Rock - in nex' tul1 the hangover back theri;;,. G Yeah, ! know where that is,. G Um hzn"' sore a-carryin 1 it on that pole st;;;,. \Io L""-<: - ! guess the bair ud h12:nt us..- :r I doYm - way it a ( I mind it "bad. -- but uz n.s m.uch as in I me.de more :i.n you d or d.id you do it some W : Ah hunted uh 1 bout two Yeah .. r G G An hunt bairs thenm But they started tu.h wanted. :me tuh take the v;B.rden Is up thair - up "thair at the fish ponds, know where that G , Uhm bm. " I tell that 1s what I I tell you,n r th.is mornin 1 , but, 0 I said, still goes i Ub:r.u hrnrn-,., bad been there a let,. - the there" St-ate :n.er 1s when J ' 8Cff0.e 5 I I 'hunted b2.0k over here on- - this over here 'Ltd - lOtsa time t.ba:Lr ln.rnts o:f'f ever here til I 110J3 the la.st bear you I guess G I I you ain1t think wile do " ' 25 whe!"e it turned bstok out$ BUt - ol 1 Bob, a-sail in r,. ~-uh k11ow,. An he went about - three hunnerd yard, uh guess 3 an I hearq-;d he 1s nea 'ly to him~ An the11 - then they went tu,h barkin 1 - trseci.~ I said, 11 I gaess it wuz a coon, 11 I said, I had the flashlight an I tt1.k o:':f a-rt.Uit&in!, ~n..1.h lmow, an Elbert wuz a-drankin I a li tt,le, an he fell down, ytJJ-1 know, a.n over the br'ars an le.wgei an - rt.:Ji up under a tree - they'z bsvrkin 1 u.p a big oak tree,, yuh knowOjl An jua 1 run u.p tt."Iner uh tree s,.n 'ell down on his belly. 11an shoot it out, Bert, 11 he said, death, yuh know, (taught,er.) 1you Ive kil 1 ed me,. n You know, meant - it - runnin 1 1 ir11 tuh !__; I had the light, yuh know, ax1 I wuz jus I flyin' .. (Chuckle.) Well - I ~..,entup an thro~1ed 'the light upon the tree an up air 1bout, forty :Peet high ;,n,;iz a big bair a-huggin1 tJ:1at tree, y:uh kz-i:o,w.. An vl1 the boy - Homer lfartin - I handed him the flashlight. nHol I the f'lashlight, get bO:hin 1 me an shine it dovm the g""l barrel$ u Had a .22 an all the - every cartridge we had 1r,m-z short range, little short range ~22 - single shot., Well, I started shootin 1 in the side, I shot it four ... :five times an he started down~ An he come dov,rn t,il I punched 1im with the gun., an the dawgs vru:z a-jumpin', t:ryir11 tuh get 1 im by the hams, an I hollered tuh Elbert, a big hair an it 1 s com.in 1 do1m on yuh*,.,. n (Laughter.) 0Let it come,u he said1 HI 111 ketch it,~ 11 He - he still - he thought_ I vrl).Z a-jokin' 1 ia., yuh knovh But I itJB.ddn 1 jokin 1 ~ L~l" .A.n he come do+m agin. An I said, I shot :it a few :more tirnea,. I guess I shot ten - fifteen shots. An ---------------------- -------- 26 atter while his -head jos doubled back jea rared back an here it come io died a-hangin I on the tree -- fell, a.n jes :fell right agiri 'Elbert.~ He jumped up he said, I s.aid, 1Lord A 'mighty, 11 he said, 11it is a bair, ain1t :i,tf" I aaid, (Laughter.) !!_ I If' it - {Laughter.) I 1 .m, it uh killed 1im dead,; V HiC weighed }n.,1,w."1.erd f'ifty - two hunnerd pcun_d. D : Prob1ly surprised. G z When = vrhen you were a young, uh, yov:ag boy, i;-,zhat kind. of' a rifle did, your father usef Then ol 1 long barrel rifles~ Yotl 1ve ~,.,,-:r.4 thmm 01 1 long :riflas, D Black powder? long time B.. go? G Th,8.t 1d be - you'd hB.ve -t.o load sfter each shot1 Yeah, Then 27 even a bu-t had G tuk k:nowed 1 had one It, wudden an didn 1 jest. had one An that I s all th I vru:z, to Then t 8,,1/]8,y ,- he 1d wov.ldn' he1 J,ess shake his haf'e out, D ' Uh ... surnpn' like take a- a four h1.,m11erd an ten with s. these ptu1kin I balls~ e:umpn 1 1 ike a bu.t Uh lots -of' wuz as as a nu1nber or1""' buckshot~ Shot a n1J.ro.ber one buckshot But - they molded them bullets.~ Ym .. 1 a bar uh lead 1bout that An you cut it off, it in a ladle, TheE yuh - close tbcrm molds up an pourt 28 in.. Had the hole there in the side.. Yuh poured that melted lead in thair, an then - rw""'l it - then it had s. back here on JcJ1e han'les that- you cut that neck off'~ I made a neck up in that Then y1.,1h cut 'that neck off' smooth, er la.y '-em dovm on table er smnpn 1 an take y1,,1.h knife an out 1em necks off. Eh had uh one squa.re end up here - not square, but - f'lat, an yu.h turned that rounded side downa G; Did did you ever - were people ever hurt by the bears - h'u.ntin 1 w I don't know. I never wuz, Oh, I guess they have back back .... But you - you - bear never to you? way W They come aw:ful close but never got me, Had one, one time had muh dawg caught, an I oouldn1 shoot it, They wuz - had about six - s,rren dawgs a-hold uv it. An uh, hit got one uh muh dawgs b' the :front lag an, an wouldn1 turn loose, an that little dawg wuz jest a-hollern, yuh know, an, an hit ud jes gnaw hit - hit grab .that hair the head an, .:Buddy, it. jes come down, jes gnsw that bair on the head, An uh, I couldn I shoot fer the dawgs an - an hit wuz in agin ,a big lawg an the lawg "vruz up little bit off uh the groun 1, an I rvn thair, an had a big pair uh these here lawggin' cork boots on, big spikes in 1em yuh know. An uh - I stomped that' bair right in the head an it turned that dawg loose an hit like tuh got me by the lag. An then it, it wheeled an went unner the lawg, an I shot it down through the back as it come out on the other sidee G thoss the kind of boots you normally ran wore when you . . 1 W Yeah, I wore the cork boots all the time. G> They were pretty heavy boots, weren't they1 'tC Oh, yeah, they1s heavy,. Big heels, full heels on 1em .. -An corks wuz tha long in 1:rn.,. (Indicates about one inch .. ) You 1ve seed 1em, I bet .. G Yeah, I have .. W You knov; what I 1m talkin 1 1bout~ G , You could still run with those big ol I heavy boots on7 29 W : Oh, Law, ~,eah. I drawed a log ; Jump 'way over ;'Onner an ketch er hit a la><g, They wudden no danger uh slippin 1 , Without yuh pick up a chip er sUl:lpn 1 '. J;,r -get a chip on yer boot er - stick.. An jump 'way over on a slick rook, yuh knolf, an:uh, yuh, yuh get some awful hard falls thata-oo.y. But y,,h get the confidence in them boots too much sometimes. You 111 t:bank yuh 111- jtnnp s:way ya!ine:r an stick, but it - they'll be s01:1epn 1 on thel'l corks that picked up an give yuh a herd f'alll, l~ ground an 1 all, wadden there! !1' : Youldn 1 ha?e to etopf I 1ve got oold, ,? . -< - < . -.,, . ,;- ,/ b41 <>.IIW<>'lltin' thro11gh 11,lh hunt'.rt 1 coat - duck baolc (l" Would you carry a little pack with ymx or somethin' with 'j' W 1'1't1l1, I haii uh, uh all1aya heel muh lunch, thsn, yul, see, I had there da,rg f-,aa.hes a.n everthang, an shackles.. Yuh oee, then I pu:t them in the back uh pound pack -all uh tinie~ An 111J..1.h gun .. wuz l still ou:t and he cou1 d.n 1 never got tul turn. 1im like rt,his mc-rrii:n 1 7 wid didn1 d a still with ba.i.r,. in go for that guy owned tha:t - " ; That fe.lla frora G I don 1t started it in about nineteen and seven er 1.Jb.m. h1:rn~ the here in nineteen an1 ten er 11ebb G how did that Well, I somepn 1 like ten yearsa G An' then the from ne oi'f' an - Ootto:n a pay , he had 1 bout. s elk air~ He could count all these ;51 he first tried_ t11-h sell - turn it all 01.:rt~ An had buffalo - turn everything out, an Graham Oounty an Cherokee CCru:n.ty an. Monroe County, Ten11essee$ Yuh see, the G : Right at Big Jun.ct.ion there? Huh1 Junction thar right thar~ Thai 1s whair the corner is,, Yuh see, Graham County, ytlh see, 011 that side is ham Oounty, an M:onroe County is over.-~. W .. o1 .. On the Tennessee side .. Well, he offered - I say each county wo11ld pay him a hmm.ered dollers apieceo1 That 1d been three hui1nerd dollers..., he Hould turn evertba.ng out an let it go.. An - fer people tv,h ht:rnt~ An y11h knot1, nary oou:nty didn' buy it. :0 What all kinda animals did he have up the:re1 w He h21-d elk ..... buffalo~ ... an these b.a.wgs ~ Na tell in 1 how many uh them he had .. ~ Did that fella from England live right up there, too? l/ Oh, he - he ,,went back.. He - he oo:me -out th.air a few tripa, then went back tuh England., G But - but Cotton Maguire stayed on up t.here? ! He stayed right on "Chair sebb1n year without, uh, any pay.. Then he put it up fer sale G Wages? w- lfages .. Then ..... got somebody tuh bid it in fer 1i:m~ He Qid it in hiss~lf,. An 1course he sol I some vb. _the elk, an kill the buffalo;,~ .. an the hawgs all jea turn them. go ,, G And the;:r're the ones th2.t., .T That's the ones here. It's like I tol 1 End of Tape II 0/11.wv-~f LV TD Uvv<...m L'b . G f,.e ;-,(i J. -RELEASE- Dy letting us collect your traditions--stories, sonr,s, music, rernemberences, or beliefs of earlier days--you have !'lade a valuable contribution to preserving and understanding Southern history, and especially the way of life of your cotnmunity. Because you have given unselfishly of your time to do this, the Georgia Folklore Archives, whose representatives are dedicated to preservin~ these traditions, wants to protect your ri::;hts to this material by guaranteeing that it will not be used for unscrupulous coTI'!llercial prof its o By signing this sheet~ you are givin5 us permission to use this material for educational purposes so that people who are interested can understand how life was in the old days. If you don't want your name to be used, say so--we respect your right to privacy. Thank you for the time you have given to help us record a heritage that is an important part of American life. "In consideration of my intent in helping to preserve my folk heritage, I hereby grant permission to the Georgia Folk Archives and its Director, John Burrison, to publish, ot otherwise make use of, the material recorded from me by the agent of the Georgia Folklore Archives whose nane appears on this sheet~ Signed Address Agent of Georgia Folklore Archives :J;;a4rrl -Ga A&A z;, Additional Hitness._ __ _:~'---'--'-!)-'t t:--,,-,c;;..'_.', ;.c.f! _:< 4/~--'-'---''~ =... 1, ___ __________ Georgia Folklore Archives/ c/o Professor John Burrison Georgia State University 33 Gilmer Street Southeast Atlanta, Georgia 30303 Date___,__/'-+,f' /' 2--<=I. ..L.,5/<-,71--2<--- -- A PDF transcript exists for this recording. Please contact an archivist for access. -- Professor John Burrison founded the Atlanta Folklore Archive Project in 1967 at Georgia State University. He trained undergraduates and graduate students enrolled in his folklore curriculum to conduct oral history interviews. 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