Marilyn Austin interview with Duane Hiatt, Paula Joyner, and Nathan Meehan

The John Burrison Georgia Folklore Archive recordings contains unedited versions of all interviews. Some material may contain descriptions of violence, offensive language, or negative stereotypes reflecting the culture or language of a particular period or place. There are instances of racist language and description, particularly in regards to African Americans. These items are presented as part of the historical record. This project is a repository for the stories, accounts, and memories of those who chose to share their experiences for educational purposes. The viewpoints expressed in this project do not necessarily represent the viewpoints of the Atlanta History Center or any of its officers, agents, employees, or volunteers. The Atlanta History Center makes no warranty as to the accuracy or completeness of any information contained in the interviews and expressly disclaims any liability therefore. If you believe you are the copyright holder of any of the content published in this collection and do not want it publicly available, please contact the Kenan Research Center at the Atlanta History Center at 404-814-4040 or reference@atlantahistorycenter.com. In this recording Duane Hiatt, Paula Joyner, and Nathan Meehan share Latter Day Saints (LDS) history and folktales. Duane Hiatt starts by explaining that these folktales are unique because the early community lived in geographic isolation. Then, he tells some historical anecdotes, including from the Civil War. 3 minutes in, Hiatt details the Mormon Rebellion or the Echo Canyon War. At 7:57, he tells the story of the Miracle of the Gulls, then at 12:28 he talks about J. Golden Kimbal, a religious father, including some of his prophecies. At 20:15 Paula Joyner shares the folktale that the song "Tie a Yellow Ribbon Round the Ole Oak Tree" is based on. Then she tells the parable of the Three Nephites. At 29:50, she repeats a story about one of the Apostles, Parley Parker Pratt, escaping imprisonment. She also tells an anecdote in which Brigham Young encourages dancing and music amongst his followers. Nathan Meehan, whose interview starts at minute 37:15, narrates anecdotes about Orren Porter Rockwell; Rockwell was an early church member who could not be killed as long as he didnt cut his hair or beard. He shares a story in which he escaped from prison and a couple about his shooting ability. At 53:46 he says that the story Mark Twain wrote about a man cheating at a frog race actually happened to Rockwell. In his final story, he details how tomatoes, once thought poisonous, were identified as edible. Duane Hiatt (1937-2020) was born in Payson, Utah, to Ferron Edmond Hiatt (1912-1999) and Gladys Hiatt (1916-2008). In 1961 he married Diane Robertson (1941-1987), and they had 15 children. He was a musician. Paula Joyner (approximately 1954- ) was born to Jack Fulton Joyner (1928-2022) and Margaret Earlene. She attended Towers High School, in Decatur, Georgia, and later worked at Laminate Placement Agency. She married Marvin Evans, and they moved to Watkinsville. Nathan Meehan (1955-2020) attended Dougherty High School in Albany, Georgia, and then Georgia School of Technology. Additional biographical information has not been determined MORMON FOLKTALES Marilyn A us tin Folklore 301 Spring 1974 Table of Contents I. Duane Hiatt (first part of tape on side 1) II. Paula Joyner (after Duane Hiatt on side 1) III, Nathan Meehan (after Paula Joyner on side 1, also on side 2) MORMON FOLKTALES I ,Duane Hiatt Duane Hiatt makes a living from si!l,ging songs a' out Mormons, about their history, about the LDS church, and some concerning biblical tales, Mostly, he makes records for Capital, and lives in Utah with his wife and six children, But starting the end of April, and through May, he goes "on tour" to various Latter-Day Saint areas ( along with different educators from Brigham Young University) to conduct three-day seminars concerning Church educatin, knowr as BYU Education Week, I first met him last year at the Sandy Springs Ward (Where BYU Education Week is held in this area). When he came back this year, I asked his to let me record some stories that he knew, and he said, "O.K., What about after the closing assembly?" It was over around ten p,m. and we went backstage. I could tell he was tired but he was really interested in telling me stories. He's a tall, thin man, and when he sat down on the folding chair, it seemed he folded too. I told him I wanted some stories about Mormons that were not necessarily true, but reflected the culture. Well, he wanted to give an introduction and I said that would be fine (though I wasn't sure what he meant), I figured it would lend some interesting background for you, and although its rather lengthy, there is some "hear-say scattered through it. Most of the stories he tells are pretty well accepted throughout the Church as being true, and I'm sure a number of people would think theyte true anyway. Most of them grow in fiction, however, as they are told from "Mormon to Mormon", As he talked, Brother Hiatt kept his eyes closed and his chair tilted back, Every now and then, he would wrinkle his brow or scratch his nose, trying to remember. Often he would stop midway through a sentence, and change his thought completely, Unfortunately, just as he was really getting into telling stories like I wanted, he decided to quit, since it was close to 11:JO, and I suppose it had been a long day for him, P 1~m not exactJ_y sure. But there is a UVI ss or sa you read in the Mormr)ns becausA of the at the time we let,at least, and later became Mexican,uh, was Mexican territory and became the 'United f;tates before we got there. But certainly there wasn't much communication between the Eastern Seaboard and the Frontier, and the Mormons, and so the uniqueness bred out of what was a unique social and religious situation to begin with, compunded with the, wild rumors that spread in the East, that went rather usually uncontradicted because there was nobody there to contradict them---And our own view of the rest of the world from where we were, ah, compunded the difference, or the uniqueness of the situation, ah Stories are told of Brigham Young for example, Some are real and some are ficticious, I suppose, But some that perhaps illustratehow he felt and how we, we felt about the ah about the rest of the country, We felt that we were good citiz,ens, but that we had been driven out and than we became a territory and not a state and so ah we couldn't elect our own officers and uh they sent out officia.ls from to from Washington to govern us with the exception of Brigham Young, Brigham Young became the governor and uh according to one story, then Abraham Lincoln was among those present when asked what a.re you going to do about, about the Mormons?, and Lincoln said, "'Well the Mormons are like a , father 2.nd 1 used to he said, ''And sometimes we would come by a great wet stump, and 11h it was to big to dig up, to wet to b11rn, and so wAid 91.nw during the civil w~ir), reportedly he said "L.(h, nThe South ~:cays th.a'.t the North will be destroyed and the North prays tha.t the South will be destroyed, 2.nd I pra~r that both prayers m.8.y be answerefL ~, Whether or not he said thc1,t vv2.s deba:t-,~ble 0 but the:r sa.y h-2 d l.d~ th? cnm1-n:::1nd 0f f;ornel Albert S:ydney ,Johnson[' 25no m0n; hfYr~e ;3_r::1 r-> to qn.-:~ll whet they ~?ill the 1\l(nrin.r:n, RPbel.lion,, Here again we felt that we were not in open rebel 1 ion by any means~ but they thou_gh t we were@ But one of the things that might have given them that feeling were some of the statements made reportedly by Bri<e;ham Young again. When he, one time he stood up and said~ uzachary rra.ylor's dead and gonP tn h21J~u Zacha.ry ~~9.ylor .had been th.e PrBsident nf the Uni.ted St?te~~ when w~ 1.Nere coming a.cross the lJnited Sta.tes., We had counted on h:1m for' some hPlp snd he'd lri.nc1. of Jet ,u, nnwn, at le2.st we thought he nid, e;o WP didn't hAVP t()o high npin5.01 of him, B,r~ ~hPn Brighgm Young as governor had stn0d up in rn"eting 8!1d said '.?,schPry 'T'aylor's gnnP to h<all, the other city nffici,,.1,, didn't think th:it w"s t00 good sn they took him aside and sa.Jd ah ah HGovernor Young~ you.'re going to have to apologize .. 11 So he sr=d.d O~K~, he stood u_p aga.i:n 2.nd. said, "Zachery Taylor's dead and gone to he]], and Im sorry. 3 It w.as then the th.ey sent the army to what was to be known as thfl "t. cho r'- anyon war, It never really was a war~ bv.t Mormons went Bridger and burned 0.Jot 0f wagon trains and scared some peopJe and ,.,, ,:, -,.,-, ... ;rr,1,; - -~- rock el_iffs on eith~r ?'.i.de and yot1- co111d roll dovin big rocks ?end the lVInrmons hctd set u.p rocks along the V.t~J.y there, AJl th_e 1Na.y down th is csn:{o!'\ to 2th keep "Johnson II s army out of there and even now you can see sorne of thR rocks piled_ there t\.nr1 you can see that ha..d they :One rolling down ther at the wrong time they could 1 ve done a.Jot of da.mage and Zohnson's ar~y knew this 1 and ah so they were a li.ttle he::sitant to come~ A matter of fact, Sam liouston said they ought: not send 01.it any tronps 2t ;ill, he s2:i.d it would tc1.ke h2.lf 8 million trcups to subdue tl1e Mormons out in theb own country, .A.nd He may be right oqus8 Brigham Young so.idw n-We 91l go into the hills and the ca_ves and the rocks hr-~~ s01.id ,he said, 11 If T 1i if a hostile army cornes over that hills, J wilJ tak(~ it 8.s a s5.gn thr:1t it is time fo~~ this ki.ngdom to succeed from the ki.ngdon1 of the world. WP felt very strongly, veJ.l we, there was not much eJse we could feel; we had been dr~ven to the ]sst outpost down, "~~cr::ording to ,o:rv~ st;oryw they- we didn\it want the army to know how rn.any -:v~."1 we had ,ju.st in case when they got in the valley the:y were no longer r,e9cefulw A.nd r-30 the commati.der of the lVf,"'lrmon forces had them stand up on either si.de of this canyon through which iTol1nson~s army And uh. 1. rode solemnly in rc::v5.e\f'/ :1round the. camp.fires~ well as soon as the armies got past'ij the '~k,rmons hotfooted it from. thr.it campfire to the campfire down below s.nd started again so when the a.rmy got down there tl:ey were stiJJ rid.Jng around this co.. mpfire aJ1.d soon a.s the a.rmy got: p:ci,st:& they Mormon militia\) r:..:nd there 1Nere :no vvhere near b1.,1t \t a hu.ndred years now e Tlrnre' s one good story that's true but I think borders on folky-ness in that i.t h,c,s that element of oh, supernatural because we Mormons believe that the Lord takes a hand in our doings, and particularly in the days that we're speaking of because the Mormons were literally despara:!:,, 'rhey were at thsir last,uh,eati,1g their last wheat many times ttnd sometimes wheat was gone, They were eating Utah thistle and Seagull lily.bulbs out of the hills and some of them got sick and some of them eve died because there's a po isen plant that looks a.lot like the ones they were eating, You had to know which was which and we did not always know, But that's how desperate things )\nd one of 8 couple of the great stories that come our. of this time~--one most everybody who knows very much about the !(\ormons has heard the one abo1Jt the i~oTmon crickets and the /v1ormon seagulls, and it partakes very much cf the folk flavor, I suppose you might explain i.t scientifically, but you couldn't explain it scientifically to the ;,\)rmons, including me, cause I don't think it was, I think the Lo1d sent the seagulls, What happened was that the saints had been driven there to this desolate, semi-arid at best, land, They planted 5 their corn and strictly on faith from believing Brigham Young knew what he was talking about, because just beyond them of course lay the Idaho country, the Oregon country to the north and the beautiful California' country whicL hadn't only been settled by the settlers--had been largely, at least the .S.acramento area opened up by Mormon Battllion troops coming up that way fron the, the wcrJr" they did In the Mexican 1 ,:--\_~_J.d winte i-t looked 6 7 reJ.entlessly~ The Saints tried all they cc11J.d i11cluding prayer,ofco,1rse, They all tried to dig ho] e2, qnd b1Jry th<Jse crickets 1 t"1ey t,ied to burn them out---tried to herd them into into vast pits and bury them.They even tried--the crickets only worked during the daytime, and at night they slept,so, they figured if they could protect their fields during the day that would do it, So the the boys and girls, the small kids would get ropes stretched across the fields and walk back and forth all day sweeping the grain back and forth, knocking the crickets off, It didn't work, The crickets would crawl badk before they could get back, kept eating the grain, and the-the future looked very bleal, for the l/iormon pioneers. It looked like they would not survive the winter because this was the last--they planted the last of their grain, but then from the Great Salt Lake itself came then these uh this flocks and flocks of seagulls, The sky was darkened first with crickets, then with -uh- seagulls, They flew around the grain fields and the saints desp'.lired., They didn't know very much about er seagulls, Many of them had come from England, the green country there--this was all new to them in the first place, America was new and certeinly this desert farming was new to them, so they e xpeeted the seagulls to eat the rest of what the cri.clrnts didn't, But instead, the seagulls swooped down 2.nd began to eat the cTickets. And they would eat unti.1 they were full, then they would fly to the lake's ec1?:1:; : .n.c.1 they would regurgatate; throw up whr::1.t they had ec1 .. ten;,,6.nrne right be1ng s2.ved jt looked miraculous, and I personal]y still think it was, But at least the seagulls ate enough crickets to save the grain fielc7s, so rrrnch of the grain 1vas lost" And this storys thou.gh it is an 2.c-tuB.l event, j_s very much of a f0lkt2le to to Mormons~ We take i.t very thr-: temp]e grounds in Salt Lake C:i.ty.1 21.nd maktng th.P ses.gvJJ the ;3tp,re birc1~ And it J.s -~J.Jega] to sh.0nt 8. se,~,gulJ inijin Utal;i~ Another statement th'lt com0s from the from the ah prophecy given by ah the lets see the father, the fa.ther of J, Gold.en Kimbal, who most pAople cone i.der is the lVlorrnon Abn1hem Lincoln, Most 0veryth ing that was said in the 1.cJs-t hundred years that was very funny is 1Js1m 1.1 y 2ttributed to J, Golden Kimbal, He couldn." t have se.id all th0 th i .. ngs did S8Y aJ ot of funny th:i.ngs, Bwt; the wh0J" fc,m;-Jy 112d :o sens0 of h1Jmor, but a.lso a sense of a uhmm prophecy and a sense of the Lord 0 s hand;, their doings. J, G0lden Kimble, the fath0r of--lmean, excus0 me, Heber G, Kimbal, the father of J, Golden Kimbal, was not a learned man~ He vxas not a literary man but he became s counsler to Brigham Young, and he was 1.n the--uh~ one of the twelve apostles~ The original twelve anostles to Joseph Smith, He was call0d oU go on a mission to England, c3nd he felt h:iE' own inad0uecy abol.l.t it very much so, But he pr:r~:yed to the LorlJ. 2nd uh the Lord answered h.1.s prayer~ 3nd hr;, became very succe3sfuJ.. a..s .8, missionary~ He became a~ quite a learned 8 C ,.-n :~1 1v. ~ "h n 7 T ..P ~s J did, th.0 ss.ints were Some 'Nere saying h.o,v hard the J.ife v,.ia.s, how 1.ittJe they had~ They 1;sed to have a piece of cheese cloth they pa.ssed aroung 9 from-from ho1ise to house ~n Sa].t Lake C3.ty so that the-so that the s5.stPrs they did have$ If you have one pieci? of cheese __ cl.oth to go a.round is-digressin3,. but I think about the saints vvho ca.me i..n a ~-n the ah h.2.nd-ca.rt com.paniesm First, re1atf:d companies in 1.. 855 to 8 5? 1 and they vvere the ones vrho often p}ctured in the sc,Jlptor of our our people ,NhQ ce_me in these small hand carts. They co11}.dnwt afford a wagon. But they wanted to gather to Z5.on, so they brc,ught >vvh?~t thr::y caul.d ~ They v._r0:re allowed 17 potn.,_ds traiJ 1 an.fl. that' F 0bo1..1.t what it took unless ;i/ou got stranded :i.n the s:n.n1N JO ft1ll and she'd fi_Jle0 h.er ~llotment, but she wanted that tea kettlen I think about her walking the l, 300 miles frc:,m Iowa City Iowa, to Salt L;c1ke Valley and w5.th her tPa kettle swingine back and forth on her apron ;::;trin.gsw tttat''ls 1how little they hada No\v some of them took it in good strid, some of them had come from families, homes a]ot-lot better off. Some in do tPn to prophecise to y01 Saints that if you will stay here in these valleys, the,t the time wiJ.1 come 1Nhen :you CD.n buy the goods of Nevv York City for less than they sell in N,)/, city, and then he sat down. rhe spirit' of prophcy kind of Jeft him I guess because he said that PI gues:::. I 11 stand,. 11 hn s2tid .. !\.nether time Brigh.8.. m "'.::-;1ung said Hebect;2-KimbaJ.. was :riis pror,h,~t 1 thats hov.r much confidence he ha,d in his good friend and counst::lor~' Heber C. Kimbal Well, the statement was obviously ridiculous~ You figure th<ci freight rates at that time, well, I think it cost $5,00 at least for a letter@ .. ~can you figure how much 5..t would cost to bring a bedstead or a stove, A load of calico, all those things that they needed price plus freight charges from New York City would be astronomical. But Heber C, Kimbal said that it would sell less was ridiculous, and not even he believed it, But a few months later, out at :~utter's M,llJ ln Sacramento, near Sacramento incidently, there were some Mormons, There a man named Brown, and others who were in on that, who helped to make the first strike out at Sutter's IV!ill,, the cry "Gold!" went up, A fever ofcourse :c;pread through out that country and they over ran Sutter's Mill, Made a pauper out of him. He was pretty well to do, turned bueno (?) into San Francisco and began what became the great California Gold Rush, Well, the cry ofcourse soon got across the country to the Eastern Seaboard, Some people came by ship, but that was a long trip before the Panama Canal, so many of them started out toe the west from the East Coast, Now, these people that knew little about California, and nothing about the land between, ~,o they load eel Pp with everyth j ng they cculd affor, and they could afford a grerrt de:-:::1.1 9 and they took thE: ir hea1r:;r laden wagons fairly well -of nf I!.!,. -' -:- ' -f'-P ~1-- ~"": ,, .)_ th ~~~ p~rts of wagc~s and PJ_e~es of iron thr.t they de 0fcour:c:_1e they brou.ght thew dovrn lnto the V8.1ley r1.nd they sol.-d thern They didn't h2.. Y'B ver;f much mor1ey a.nd so the price didn't gE_)t as high a}::i it did in New York City and the Saints literally bought goods from New York City for less than they sold in New York City. Heber. C, Kimbal breathed a sigh of relief and the spirit of prophecy was truely upon him, II, Paula Joyner Paula Joyner is one of my friends who, being raised in the church, knows quite a few Mormon stories, She is twenty years old and daughter of the former Atlanta Stake President (a big man in this area). She works for the Laminite Placement agency; kind of a foster home placement for Indian children, When I recorded her stories, we had to sit in my car, certainly not an ideal situation, It was during the dinner hour at B.Y.U, Education Week, and no place in the church was quiet enough, Actually, only one story turned out to be any good, rather the rest were messed up. You know that song that "Tie a Yellow Ribbon Around the Old Oak Tree"? Well, that orig--'rhat's a true story as such and it originated with Morm3ns. Its a Mormon story, only it was told with a different light then ah him coming home to his fianc~, or his girl friend. Its told ah one of the general authorities at church related this story in conference hall at one of the General Conferences. He said he was fiding in a train and ther was a young man sitting next to him, and he kept fidgetting and turning around and looking real nervous and stuff, and he knew something was wrong with him, So they just started talking, The young man turned to him and said, "Hey, wil,l you do me a favor'f" and the General Authority said, "Sure, if I can , YOu know, whatever you want me to do," He said,"This train is going to pass around a curve and around this bend is going to be an oak tree, and this is my home town. And every, every time a train goes around here you can see the great big old oak tree in my back yard as the train passes by on the way to the station," And he told the story, how he had done something wrong in his life, and how he had been sent to prison for two or three years, and he felt so bad, And he knew that his family, knew his family felt so bad about what he had done to disgrace them, the name of his family, And so that he uh had written home to his parents and he asked his parents to forgive him for what he had done, for disgracing their name,and for goin to prison forall the bad things he had done, and now he was getting out. And if they wanted him to come back to tie a yellow ribbon in the oak tree and he would see it before the train would get to the depot, and if the yellow ribbon was on there he would get off at the train station. If he J;oesn' t see a yellow ribbon. on there he would keep on going, He won't stop at the train station, And uh, he said, "I understand how you must feel, with me and having a son like you do," And so he said he was too scared to look to see if it was ther'i- because he wasn't quite sure if he could face what was going to be on the tree or not, if he could face being accepted or rejected, And so he asked the General authority to look for him, And when he passed around the bend the General Authority looked, and he made the young man look, And on the tree, .. and on the tree, wasn't just one little ri~~on, the tree was covered full with yellow ribbons And the uh boy got off at the train station and met his parents. So that story is true, Thats not exactly the story on the record, but its pretty much the same. Me, "Well, was the guy a Mormon, or just the General Authority?" Paula: He was a Mormon. This was in Utah. He was a member of the church and you know in the church how much emphasis we put on family life, and disgracing your family name and stuff like that. He knew all this and this is why he felt so badly. And this was a small Mormon town, and thats how it happened, like that. Me, Do you know anything about the three Nephites?" Some people I know are kind of interested in that and I haven't heard too much about them 1 Paula the Three Nephite? Me: Yes, don't they appear? 3 Well, theli',/s a story that Paul H, Dunn tells which is comical, but its not ,,,in a round about way its about the three Nephites, but it doesn't directly involve'em.,., My note, The story she tells here is definately not a folk tale, so I didn't copy it .... then something happened to the tape; it seemed that somehow when recording Nathan on the other side, his voice comes in on this side (backwards) Not too much was lost, but I went on and erased the rest of Paula's. Then (on the same side) Nathan begins his stories, which he finishes on the other side, so I transcribed them best I could ---you might not want to even listen to them, but do anyway, because the voice of Nathan Meehan going both forward and retrograde really shouldn't be missed. III, Nathan Meehan I do wish I had gotten a picture of Nathan. He's quite a character and very funny looking, He is 18 years old, but looks about 26 and knows at least as much as any clever fory year old, We (my boyfriend and I), recorded his stories at his dormitory at Georgia Tech, where he is finishing his Junior Year. I had a good time listening and warching Nathan tell his tales. His facial expressions and the gestures he made with his hands and arms reall added a great deal to the stories, As I've said, the recording on side one isn't good at all, but the stories he told led into the ones on the other side. Uh, the rumor gets out, and in fact, its almost sure to be true, ? that he was given a blessing by Joseph Smith ( this is Orren Porter Rockwell he's talking about) as long as he never cut his hair, or cut his beard, that he would not be killed by a gun, or a sword, Me: Thats amazing Thats all probably true--in fact, you hear stories that people would come up and shoot him, and he'd shake the bullets out of his coat . There's been a couple of documented cases---it didn't happen every week like some people's stories go---and that may have happened, and uh There's been alot of witnesses to this that just claim that it happened all along you know, uh One of the more interesting stories I thought was when they, they put Orren Porter Rockwell in jail and he didn't get to see a judge in just ages and ages and uh these two sheriffs had arrested him, You see, somebody had started picking on him in the street and he had killed the guy, Somebody was messing around with him about his hair and he laid him flat as a pine tree, So the Sheriffs, actually they weren't sheriff's, they were deputies, cause the sheriff was out, the deputies had arrested him, the sheriff, it turned out, had left and these two sheriffs put him in jail, They couldn't stand him. They put somebody else in jail with him and they were there for a couple of months, And they just got fed lousy and they didn't have any facilities, So naturally they were stinking bad, Why they were awful, So one day Crren Porter Rockwell says, the other guy says to Orren, "Listen, you' re alot bigger than those guys are, I've seen you take on--but both were very skinny by now, they hadn't fed them anything in weeks. Both of them were horrible, but uh they said, "Why don't we break out of here?' Orren says,"Why not? You know, let's do it." So, I mean it couldn't be better-the gaurd brings them their tray of food, Orren oges- WHAP!- right across the head, The gaurd goes (sound), lays right out. They're uh there in a jail, now this jail is a house uh you know they 2 just have a jail up on the top floor of the house and people live underneath ituh uh Maybe its two floors above the house, (I don't remember) So they go running downstairs through the kitchen in the house ---runs into the cook, And she has no idea whats going on, She finally goes up stairs, and the guy's been taken care of--her husband finds him laying on the floor, uh uhum Orren, he just kinda trotting out, uh you know, trotting away. They gotta climb up over this fence, so-they climb up-Prren climbed up over first, The other guy isn't over, so he goes back to help him up, and ah here are these four or five soldiers with guns pointed up at Orren. They captured him again, Now two sheriffs are going to take Orren and the other guy over, over the county live they'd found a judge they thought will do O.K. And ah some of Joseph Smith's men arrest them for a violation of aa a daily, this is a Labor Day i think, and they were takein this gy to court, and then Joseph Smith's men arrested these two guys, the two sheriffs, who were in charge of Orren and his friend, uh and uh in uh violation of some trivial little thing. They said, "Well, you're going to have to uh, before we try you, you're going to have to get your, the prisoners tried, in this county. And of course, this was a Mormon county. The only judge around was a Nahvoo judge. The trial took two or three minutes at least. So as soon as Orren got released, Orren started running full heels towards Joseph Smith's large house where he was having a party. And the other two, the other deputies were taken to another court; they got a little fine, thirty days, So ah, here's Orren, still stinking, running toward Joseph Smith's home where Joseph Smith is having a formal ball, and it's the most beautiful, you know, house in Nahvoo, uh Nahvoo is a pretty city too and ah had some nice houses, And so Orren is gonna run in. So at the party, the gaurds throw him right out, Orren's gonna run in the next time; they throw him out, even farther, and 3 make a few threats in case he ever comes back, Cour5'1.J, there is no way \ to recognize him, except he's got--this is the time whem he grew his hair long ah and , and he- you cal'! imagine how he smelled, that was the worst thing, And so, fimally he diversed them and runs in, finds Joseph. Josdph recognizes him, because he and Orren were friends from childhood, runs up, throws his arms around him. You know, all the guest are amazed; he says, "Find the nicest clothes in this house and clean this man up," This established their friendship even more, But Orren never got put back in jail for anything, there was somebody that kept threatening to to put him back in jail, and he was a bitter enemy of his. This nearly had Orren in jail for all kinds of things, And anytime anybody got shot, the story went out that Rockwell did it, Well uh at this carnival one time, this guy that was his enemy was found with about five bullets in him, They thought Orren did it, ll-. And ofcours, his only comment was,"I never need five bullets, The same thing happened with Governor Boggs, He was just one of the biggest enemies of Orren's, and uh he was one of Orrens biggest enemies, uh On~day some one had taken a big double barrel shot gun, loaded it full of over siz,e pellets and shot Governor Boggs, you know, through the window, It put dozens and dozens of pieces of metal in him, but they missed his wife and kids. Hardly put a scratch on them, They put these iron pellets all over the place. Ofcourse they immediately were after Rockwell, who said, "If I had done it, he wouldn't be alive now," The Governor had survived, You couldn't shoot a buffalo by hitting him right in the forhead, You had to shoot for the heart, tecause his skull was too thick, Well, he (Rockwell) had never learned if that was true ,or not, So he said, "Let" s find out today," and were going to shoot a Buffalo today, They were in the plains and there was still a lot of buffalo out there, So Orren rides out, and terrifies the buffalo, so here are all these buffalo, charging at him, He's riding full into them with his rifle, and shoots at one. It doesn't go down, Old Orren just barely gets out of that herd of buffalo, Everybody was amazed, (He was one of the better shots) Just so happened they killed two buffalo that day and one of the buffalo that they killed, they opened the head up, and it happened to be the one that Orren had shot and sure 'nuff, right dead center in the middle of his skull was a ball, uh People and his fame spread further and further and this guy came up from California who wasn't a bad shot either, uh Now Orren porter Rockwell had gotten a job with the uh ah, what do you call it/ yea, the Pony Express. And none of his mail ever got stolen, His, you know, of the first riders, he was the only one that never 5 got anything stolen, And uh one guy came up to him, and uh was getting ready to !(ill him, you know, and he said uh he said, he stopped, Orren was there on his horse, and said uh " Are you Orren Porter Rockwell?" (nah, who else is riding around here with a Pony Express bag, and a beard down to his horse?) uh says as he pulls the gun out and points it right at his head, and says, "Somebody said you couldn't be killed with agun, and I'm gonna make a liar out of 'em," Well, without even blinking, he says, "Not with that gun, You don' thave the bullet cocked," "Yea?" phlaihagg! One less one of his enemies, No,no, he didn't kill himself, Orren shot him. (ah, I didn't make that clear with my hand waving) One of the stories that Mark Twain wrote up actually happened with Orren Porter Rockwell, who was a gambler and a drinker and had a vocabulary that would put most doublees (?) to shame.---electrical enjineers, u..lland uh He had a passion for racing frogs., And they'd take these frogs, and the only thing they could do was gig 'em in the back, you know, and get them to jump, and they'd have races with em. Well, he'd gotten down to his frog and another on, and he filled that other grog with leadshot. Just how he did it with sll the other people around, I don't know, poured lead shot down a frog's throat, And he took the money and left. The guy picked up' his frog and said,"I..don't know what's the matter with you." gikks --They went after Orren pretty bad that day, I don't know if he got that ida from ol Samuel Clemens, or who got it from who. Its for sure it happened to him. Its said he could spit tobacco farther than anyone else, too, among his other mighty accomplishments. Uh he had one trick that he'd occasionlly do. Is that someone could flip two coins up in the air, and he'd shoot em both, And uh he, that was a clever one I thought, He never missed with that when he did it in public. Another story about Mormons thats sorta true is that uh some docter, let's call him Jones, invented eating tomatoes. Well, you 6 see, in that area, and as far as I know, in most of the United States, people grew alot of tomatoes because they thought they were attractive looking. Now, I swear, I've had tomato bushes all around my house for years, and I never thought of about they were attractive looking you know, They thought that the red things that grew on them were actually poiseness, and they warned their children not to eat them they wouldn't let them throw them at each other because they were poiseness. Course, kids are going to throw those things at each otherc can you imagine? And uh, this one docter, among his other kooky ideas, felt eating tomatoes was not only viable, but was good for you. And as any vitamin C freak will tell you, tomatoes are quite good for you. And so, thats how people started eating tomatoes in tile United States, 7 -RELEASEDy ietting us collect your traciitions--stories, sonr.s,. 1nusic" renemberences? or beliefs of earlier days--you have '."lade a valuable contribution to preserving and understandinr: Southern history, and especially the uay of life of your col'TITiu.nity o I-iecause you have r,iven unselfishly of your ti1ne to do this~ the Geor3:ia FoJJ-:lore Archives" whose representatives are dedicated to preservinr, these traditions,. wants to protect your rich ts to this rnaterial by guaranteeine; that it trill not be usec1 for unscrupulous conimercial pro~ fitsa By si3ninrr this sheets you are giving us permission to use this material for educational pUrposes so that people Hho are interested can understand how life 1ms in the old days o If you don v t want your name to be used~ say so--we respect your rir;ht to privacyD Thanlc you for the time you have 1,iven to help us record a heritare that is an iF_portant part of Jl..merican lifeo nin consideration of f"I.Y intent in helpinr:: to preserve r-..y folk heritar,e, I hereby grant permission to the Georgia Folk Archives and its Director 9 John Burris on,-. to publisl1. 9 ot othen"1'ise n!al:e use of, the r.,aterial recorded from me by the agent of the Georgia Folklore Archives whose nane appears on this sheeto Si necl Ac1.dress 7 ' A~ent of Georp:ia Folklore A.rchives'-------------------------- Additional Fitness _____________________________ _ Geore:ia Folklore Archives c/o Professor .John Burrison Georgia State University 33 Gilmer Street Southeast Atlanta~ Geornia 30303 nate ______________ _ I FOLKLORE ARCHIVES CATALOGUE INFOR."!ANT Name : \-l "'',-"'""' IN\ ,__,._l_Q"' Mailing address and phone number: I), +l"~-c'----- tY and/or ethnic affiliation: Callee.tor's namf=!: \[\A t.".,-,.r" 1 \ 1:\/"'\ Quarterj Year and claug: S FOLKLORE ARCHIVES CATALOGUE INFORMANT j O 'o V\ ,,_,_. Mailing address and phone number: ethnic affiliation: (3'1~ L~~,,,r @,l~Q. k--lcl~-\:CL I G-AGenres contributed: fv\on,,co-" 1/oll<(+"ks A PDF transcript exists for this recording. Please contact an archivist for access. Professor John Burrison founded the Atlanta Folklore Archive Project in 1967 at Georgia State University. He trained undergraduates and graduate students enrolled in his folklore curriculum to conduct oral history interviews. Students interviewed men, women, and children of various demographics in Georgia and across the southeast on crafts, storytelling, music, religion, rural life, and traditions. As archivists, we acknowledge our role as stewards of information, which places us inaposition to choose how individuals and organizations are represented and described in our archives. We are not neutral, andbias isreflected in our descriptions, whichmay not convey the racist or offensive aspects of collection materialsaccurately.Archivists make mistakes and might use poor judgment.We often re-use language used by the former owners and creators, which provides context but also includes bias and prejudices of the time it was created.Additionally,our work to use reparative languagewhereLibrary of Congress subject termsareinaccurate and obsolete isongoing. Kenan Research Center welcomes feedback and questions regarding our archival descriptions. If you encounter harmful, offensive, or insensitive terminology or description please let us know by emailingreference@atlantahistorycenter.com. Your comments are essential to our work to create inclusive and thoughtful description.