Sandy Marshall interview with Frances Benson

The John Burrison Georgia Folklore Archive recordings contains unedited versions of all interviews. Some material may contain descriptions of violence, offensive language, or negative stereotypes reflecting the culture or language of a particular period or place. There are instances of racist language and description, particularly in regards to African Americans. These items are presented as part of the historical record. This project is a repository for the stories, accounts, and memories of those who chose to share their experiences for educational purposes. The viewpoints expressed in this project do not necessarily represent the viewpoints of the Atlanta History Center or any of its officers, agents, employees, or volunteers. The Atlanta History Center makes no warranty as to the accuracy or completeness of any information contained in the interviews and expressly disclaims any liability therefore. If you believe you are the copyright holder of any of the content published in this collection and do not want it publicly available, please contact the Kenan Research Center at the Atlanta History Center at 404-814-4040 or reference@atlantahistorycenter.com. Frances Benson starts this interview by describing her towns excitement when the circus came. She discusses eating peanuts at the circus, which were called goobers. She then discusses the habit of eating starch and clay, or dipped snuff, and how it caused oral hygiene problems. She talks about wood stoves, her strict Baptist parents, and using silver half dollars to hold down corpses eyelids. Benson claims that she never ironed because her family employed a maid for over 25 years. Benson discusses her maid, who was African American, and then shares some African American wedding and funeral traditions. Next, Benson talks about playing outdoors as a child. She and her friends built houses with rocks and sticks on the red clay and tied sewing thread around June bugs, flying them around like kites. They also played with doodle bugs, poking broom straws into holes and singing to them to get them to crawl out. And they mixed colored glass and flowers into the dirt. Benson then describes African American women who came into town to sell green peas and fresh shell butter beans; when children misbehaved their parents punished them by sending them to help with the work. Elaborating on what she loved about summer as a girl, she recalls buying blocks of ice off of a wagon. She then discusses singing and attending elocution class at a conservatory where she learned songs and poems. Frances then sings two songs she learned from these lessons: Hay dar Peter Johnson and On the dark and stormy night The interviewer changes topics to superstition. On the topic of lies, biting your tongue meant you just told one, and using the word story was better than lie because it was considered a bad word. If your left palm itched, you were going to make money; but if your right palm itched, you were going to shake hands with a stranger. Then, Frances tells a ghost story about a woman who played a church organ and hopped on a mans horse as he tried to ride away from the church. He later found out she was an escapee from an insane asylum. After the story, Benson describes a game she played as a child called Bum, Here I Come and sings One evening of late . After singing, she discusses African American women and her familys washer woman who did the laundry. Benson loved when she was late with the laundry because she would be sent to the womans house to pick it up; and while she waited, she would sit by the fire and chat. Emily Frances Chandler (ne Benson) (1908-1973) was born to William Luther Benson (1878-?) and Jessie Benson (ne Butts) (1876-?) in Savannah, Georgia. She married Tolbert B. Chandler (1904-?) and had one daughter, Jessie P. Chandler (1930-?). They lived in Atlanta, Georgia. would go to a conservatory and here they would-uhtake what they called elocution, and they would learn pieces. They would get up and say these and poems in school and different places like that ~- And -uh- so many of the Southern boy orrators, you know, learned from studying elocutio~. ( you know). They would say different pieces-some of them would be-uh-a sort of southern type thing, others would be well-knownuh- uh-poems written by famous authors such as Longfellow. One that my mother used to give a great deal would be "Howa-uhHiawatha" you know, by Longfellow. The "Famine" was a very well-known one she did, but something typical of the Southern Neg~OUld also do. And this is one that-uh-as a child I remembered and enjoyed it and learned it myself. It goes like this: Hay dar Peter Johnson come inside dis fense, ain1t I done told you yesta da dat you didn1t have no senseI You got enough gumption to know this ain't daylight and "Spooks" begin to travel this time of de nite. Look at de moon! Sign spooks going be travelin',soon. Thinks I I sa see one hidden behind dat tree Ho~lalusa me sau'sa live one hidden behind that tree-uh- HA-HA- I knowed dat bringma's littlepickinenny in. If da comes around here she'll smak un in the face width ~.. -2- that burnt Ha-cake! Vhill she sings da lUlaby. So this is a typical Negro one, you know, in the language, you knovr, that was familiar to them; and-uh- of course there are a lot of other things that they used to do. They would sing-uh-vrhere this song-uh- came from I donlt knovr, but I think it, s awful I But-uh-in the South, in the small Georgia towns~t I think this vras even recorded on a record. You may be able to find it, but-uh-it is a tale of a young man who lost his wife and the Ire travelin on a train and-uh- On the dark stormy night, as the train rattled on all the passengers had gone to bed, except the young man with the babein his arms he sat there with a bowed dOvTIl head. The innocent one began crying, just then, as though it's poor heart would break- When one angry man said, 'make that child stop it's noise for it's keeping all of us awake I" "Put it out!" said another, "Don't keep it in here We've paid for our births and want rest." But never a word said the man with the child As he fondled it close to his breast "Oh, where is ita mother, Oh, take it to her," a lady then softly said. "I wish that I COUld," was the man's sad reply "But she's dead in the coach ~ ahead. t1 As the train rolled, rolled, rolled on, As the husband sat in tears thinking of the happiness of just a few short years The bab~y's face brings pictures of a cherished hope that's dead, But the babby's cries can't waken her in the baggage car ahead Oh, donlt you think that's sadl Well, there are a few superstitions that I remember. Well, one is that when you say Oh, I've just bitten my tongue they -3- say well you've just told a lie. Or they say long time ago they used to make you say a story instead of lie, because lie was not a very nice word to say when you were a child. Then. uh-if your left palm itches you're going to get some money. If your right palm itches you're going to shake hands with a stranger. Then the old superstition that-uh-probably came from Europe because I have heard Europeans mention this same superstition, is the one about putting your hat on the bed. Never put your hat on the bed or you'll die before long-uhI i'll'll NSI'f' your death is ennimunt if you do. Ok, now this is the story that-uh-my ghost story that my father used to tell and the setting was in-uh-around near Darien or Midway Church where one of the oldest cemeter!tsin the state of Georgia is located. And this is an area where they have the famous old-uh-oa~rees with the moss that hangs down all ~ ;;".. around, and it's sort of an err~e PlaceAin itself, and, ~ the night - this particular tale was-uh- at during the time men wore long capes and when it rained and in the cold weather and they rode horses. This night it was-uh-very dark, stormy night, lots of lightning and this young man was riding a horse. He had a long cape on and it started pouring down rain and storming so he came up to this church yard and stopped and ran in~ the church to get out of the storm. As he walked in this small country church he heard an organ playing, not the pipe organ like we have in our churches, but an old fashioned organ that you peddled with your feet-which could -4- be found in many Soutbern bomes and Southern churches at that time. And this just as he walked inr~he church going down the aisles to see where - who in the world would be playing the organ in there on a horrible night like this. ~ a jagged streak of lightening came into the church. there was a woman seated at the organ and she had a long white dress on, long gray matted hair, and just as the lightning came she turned and saw him and gave this wi~e4 eyed look and started laughling and jumped down from the seat and started running toward him and frightened the young man half to death. This app/;Irrition coming toward him and he dashed out of the church and tried to get on his horse and she grabbed the end of his cape and-uh-jumped on the back of the horse and there he was dashing out of the church yard tarrmfied with this-uh-mad ;.Toman hanging onto him. And he just qUickly untied the cape and she slipped down on the road and away he went and he stopped at the first house he came to and ~ he - the man there opened the door he fel~in, and his hair turned snow white from fright and later they found out that she .l1p was the woman that had escaped from an ~sane assilum near there So that used to terrify me when I was a child that would : frighten me.M One of our favorite games that we used to play all the time and it was a nice game to play because you could have just as many children in a neighborhood playing in it at one time as you wanted. You tried to even up the sides with -5- CLJ~eIh~r children and often times it wouldn't matter 1fe~ you had any sense or not you could still play this game so there were always lots of little tiny brothers and sisters on either called side, you know, because they could "Bum Bum! ~ere I Come" and you try do this. It's to have equal . sides if you can. And you line up, and you come forward and march toward ~ ~ther each side singing' Bu-uh- one side marches toward the other singing "Here I come, Bum, Bum, Bum, and the other side anS\vers back, ''What's you trade?" And you answer back, your side does, "Sweet Lemonade," and the other side anS1-lers "Go to work and make it." Then, your side, you've already agreed on something to do. - You start going through the motions of doing something. Oh, perhaps you-uh-or it's sort of like a sharade type of game, and perhaps this may have been where they started-uh-you go to work and do something supose you-uh-baking a cake, or-uhdriving a car. Everybody goes through these motions all ~ogether and then the other side hasl to try to figure out 1-lhat you're doing and when they say what it is then you all start running and they've got to catch you and the people that they catch then have to join their side. And then it's their turn, and then you go back and forth like this, and finally this is the end of the game. The side that gets everybody, you know Heather: "1<fas this how sharades started?" Mrs. B. "It could have been-uh-taken from this game, all I -6- know that I - I, as early as I can remember, I must have been five or six and since I'm forty-nine, that's how old I know this game is. Heather: nOh, gee, ~nd I thought it was one you just made up. n Mrs. B. This is probably the oldest song that-uh-I have ever heard tha-t has been in our family. [Uh-has been in our family]my.mother is seventy years old and as a little girl her mother sang it to her and for some reason she could never remember all of it. Now, I can't remember as much as my mother can. I'm sorry she's out of town and I can't get some of the words I'm sure she could give me. Apparently, my great - my \grea tl grandmother came from, they landed in ,_ -J Virginia and came down through Alabama, where my mother was born. But,-uh-this is the way the song goes,: I'm sorry it's such a little bit of it One evening of late, as I rambled Down by the ----- ----- --- -stream, Idreamt:-of-tae-fairest of femalesi Whose equal I've never seen before Then there's something then She had come here to awake and aro'13e her brother Who slumbers on Errie's green shores And that's all I can remember but, it's very old Uh-I have a maid who has been working for me for twentyfive years, and this is a little story that she told me about this old woman that she knew, who lived in an area of town which is completely colored and these are colored houses, you know, and there was one-uh-this old lady used to sit out on the front porch rocking all the time, and in the hot summer wsather, she fanned herself and she'd get out there real early in the morning and stay all day long, I IIl -7- until late at night. But she had a wonderful time because she knew everything that happened that l"ent on in the whole area. Everybody that passed by stopped to talk to her, if they wanted to find out anything they could always find out from her because she knew what was going on. Now, right across the street from her lived another old colored woman who had besn there for many years, too. And she kept an ~maculet house, starched pillow cases that stood up on the bed,. these are an old southern custom, you know, starching your pillow cases and standing them up and you could allyou could just about eat on the floor. You poured lye on the floor and scrubbed them clean and it was just as clean as it could be And she worked all the time in her house keeping it clean and one day-uh-Lissie called, --Lissie who was the one who sat on the fornt porch called over there to her and said, lI.Annie l\tay, iihy don It you come over here and sit down and rest a spell. 1I And -uh-.Annie May told her she didn't have uime for anything like that for ah lalagaging as she called it-that she had her work to do that she had to get her house cleaned up and keep it clean. And -uh-Lissie said, lIWell. I'll tell you one thing .Annie May, I!lllsa heep rather be rocking on top of this dirt than buried under it. lI Well this is-uh-way of life that the people in the south ':'8- had when I was a child, that you don't see any longer,-uhl you see it - I at this particular time that I am telling you about was when I lived in Macon, Georgia and uh- On Monday morn~ your clothes were gathered up and they were tied in a great big sheet with knotts, and you would see the negro women coming on Monday to gather the clothes. And they would go WAlking down the street with a great big sheet tied up with all the clothes in it on top of their heads. And they would be taking them home with them. Now on saturday you were suposed -uh-they were supposed to come back with the clothes on Saturday morning and~uh-these clothes were brought back in a-uh-brown oblong wicker basket, still carried on top of the colored woman's head, balanced, very well up there and she walked with great ease no matter how heavy the load was. Now if they didn't come on Saturday by noon or say by two o'clock or three olclock; then somebody in the family was sent to find out why Vennie, which happened to be the one I remember at this particular time. who was our warsher woman. Now the warsher woman didn't do any house work in your house ~ you had somebody else there. This was they did the warshing at home. You'd go over there - you'd be sent to go over there to find out what happened, because they didn't have telephones. It might be that they had been sick during the week, in that case this would really be an emergency! So you would go over there. Well, I loved it -9- when they were late because I enjoyed going over there and ah-I hate to say it, we no longer say nigger town but it was called that an ah-I loved going over there because I loved to walk down -ah-there and see the little houses they were all small individual little houses and ah-watch the little children at play. A lot of them I knew by name, you know, and I enjoyed the nice visits with everybody that I knew over { there and I would go through and I and I would find Vennie~' house and they would warsh your clothes in a warsh pot out in the yard. Now all you who built fires know that there isn't anything that smells any better than oak. And-ah-mos~of their time they would use oak because oak was slow burning, you know, and it kept the warsh pot hot for a long time. And-ahyour clothes would have tnis-ah-smo~ odor about them, particulary if it had rained during the week because they would be dryed in front of the fireplace. Some of the heavy ones in front of-ah-oak wood fire. And,of course, at that time she would probably still be ironing up the last.jiIieees as she would call it. So I would get to sit down and talk to her, while she finished up1 And of course, she didn't II.. . have an electric iron and she used flat iron that was heated, you know. And she would have two or even three of these irons~ ;rou know, and keep one going - ~lways she would have a cloth on the handle to hold it ~by. And ah-I loved it because they had so many things hanging on the walls from newspapers, pictures and things from Sears and Robuck Catalogues and things -10- like that just real-and just real what they thought pretty pictures and I just loved this. And always I can't ever remember going that I didn't hear a clock. One of those old clocks that tick real loud back and forth and. you know. and I would sit there and Vennie would talk to me and I loved it when our clothes weren 't brought;)back on time. ~~D O~ SIDE NUMBER ONE We were talking about foods and-ah-things that they had in the South that they don't have anywhere else. Years ago my father told me about this young man-that their family of course. had a farm. This was in a small farming area and the circus used to come to the state and they would go usually to the county seat. And everybody took the day off when the circus came and they would go there. This was probably the most wonderful thing that happened. Well. this young man could hardly wait to go and when he got there he had in order to get the money to go to the circus. he had to sell his crop which consisted of peanuts - a crop of peanuts. because you know. we did grow a lot of peanuts here in the South. So he had finished selling all these peanuts. just wagon loads of them. So when he went to the circus. he wasah- the young men they were walking around trying ~ut everything and then he saw this big sign "Hot Roasted Peanuts~' So he said "I am goin try me some of these peenu ts. I~e never heard of any peenuts." And he bought a sack of urn -11- and he started to open it and he said, "\ihy my goodness these ain't nothin but Goobers." (goobers) They had always called them goobers. And that:s what peanuts were called in the south a long time ago - goobers. (The question had been asked if she had ever heard or seen anyone eating clay) No, I never heard of anyone eating clay, but I have heard of people eating starch. And apparently this is just not an uncommon thing. Years ago, they didn't have spray starch or instant starch that I can remember. The only thing that I can ever remember is-ah-starch in a box that came in hard lumps and-ah-this is what they used to eat. They would eat starch. And according to some of the questions that were written to Doctors and the papers today, people still eat starch and as well as the clay that you mentioned, but I never knew of that. Another thing that I remember and since-ah-at this present time we are in a dental office, let me tell you what I do remember. Ah-so many people use to dip snuff - old women, particulary old women and ah-eolored people, they would dipe snuff and ah-consquently their mouth and teeth looked likel And in rural areas what kind of little sticks they got, like I don't know, bJt they would break off a fresh little limb off a bush ar tree or something and peal back the bark on the end and make them a brush. And they used this to keep their teeth clean all the time. I have seen this done many times -12- when I was a child. Hadn't thought about it until right now. Heather: "My grandfather in Canada was the first one to have a bath tub in his county. that's why I was wondering, ,J you know. Mrs. B. "Well, of course, they used the wood stove. It had the tray of the side, you know, with the thing on the side that kept water in and this water was always hot. And they would stand in a great big round zink tub and they would put,water in there and they would soak themselves down and then have somebody in their family just pour water allover them. I mean that's the way they probably bathed, you know, back of the wood stove in the kitchen where it was warm. Heather: "You know I can remember in Southern Ontario -ah my grandmother used to live, that novels her mother wouldn't let her read novels, because they were horrible and they were strick Methodist, you know, and they just thought my great aunt used to hide novels in bed under neath the bed and all around. Mrs. B. "Qh and this was Heather: "And she wouldn't. My-ah-great grandmother wouldn't let her children walk on the same side of the street where the theatre was because the theatre and the movies were just -ahhorrible'! And -ah-thought that was so interesting. Yes, you know what they used to Yes, you know what they used to do down South when somebody died? They used to put half-dol lards on their eyes to hold them closed. I used to think that was horrible. I remember going to one when I was a child and seeing this-ahI thought this was horrible and this-ah-stayed in my mind for just years. I guess because I never went to funerals, and this was one that I remember. I don't know why I was there, but I can remember asking about it, and that was to hold their eyes shut. Heather: (not understandable-something about ironing) the kitchen was so hot that you just had to go outside and I remember that I-ah- Mrs. B. "Well, you see now this t-las the thing that was different about the southern people, I guess-ah-I hate to admit it but I (laughts) I can't iron if I have to, but all my life I never really had to iron, because we we always had help to do it and Heather: "Did the warsher woman do it?" Mrs. B. "Ye s, she did \"hen I was a child and when I was growing up, and later when I was in high school tB~they -at that time they had warshing _.:1 j .g machines came out, well, before I went to high school and we got the old wringer type warsher and then your warshing was done at home, and who ever you had working at home for you, they would do the ironing there. So then we had-ah-the same one who worked for us when I was little-ah-in~ementary school through high school, you know stay with us for many years until I had this maid that I have now who has been with me for twenty-five years. (Don't put that on tape.) I never went to a wedding or a colored wedding when I was little, however, I did go to church services-ah-of-ah- Usually the man who preached on Sunday would have another job during the week and I went because we were all invited to -14- corne to hear him~reach, you know, which was aside from his regular job. The only thing that I can recall about it which is really entirely different from ours was that there were a group of colored 'women called " santifieds" and they wore white. -They were all dressed in white;and they'were called "santifieds~' And I -ah-I believe and I am almost sure that they still have this. This has been many years ago. They had a table in the front of the church on either side and when the time came for the collection they didn't pass around anything, but sister so a~o would stand up and say how much she was going to give and then brother so an so would and everybody would clap and you know, and it was something wonderful and they a lot of times g~e a lot more than they could even nearly afford to, because, you know, the church was the center of their activity and they loved it. Now-ahI went to a weddin last summer of-ah-my maid~ niece and ahthese are colored people who are-ah-she was a school teacher when they got married and he was in medical school and I of course, went to their wedding because I-ah- know the whole family. I'd known all of them the brothers and sisters and all of them the ones who came over from Birmingham, I knew all GI2Ac.6~ about them because I know about wRe~ R~G family just like she knows about mine probably more t~n anyone else, because she has been tqith me so long. And-ah-they had a very beautiful wedding. My daughter had had a very large wedding just a few months before, but this of course was a very lovely wedding. And-ah-they had a reception and~ah-in the church and it is so now just like white peoples weddings that white people have now. The same dresses, they were all bought at Riches as so .-- - --------------------- -15- many people here in Atlanta do But I don't rememher ever going to one when. I was a child. - Only to church services. The rest of the tape consist of Mrs. Benzers childhood and really is not a part of our fot~ study, thus it has not been transcribed. A PDF transcript exists for this recording. Please contact an archivist for access. Professor John Burrison founded the Atlanta Folklore Archive Project in 1967 at Georgia State University. He trained undergraduates and graduate students enrolled in his folklore curriculum to conduct oral history interviews. Students interviewed men, women, and children of various demographics in Georgia and across the southeast on crafts, storytelling, music, religion, rural life, and traditions. As archivists, we acknowledge our role as stewards of information, which places us inaposition to choose how individuals and organizations are represented and described in our archives. We are not neutral, andbias isreflected in our descriptions, whichmay not convey the racist or offensive aspects of collection materialsaccurately.Archivists make mistakes and might use poor judgment.We often re-use language used by the former owners and creators, which provides context but also includes bias and prejudices of the time it was created.Additionally,our work to use reparative languagewhereLibrary of Congress subject termsareinaccurate and obsolete isongoing. Kenan Research Center welcomes feedback and questions regarding our archival descriptions. If you encounter harmful, offensive, or insensitive terminology or description please let us know by emailingreference@atlantahistorycenter.com. Your comments are essential to our work to create inclusive and thoughtful description.