Louise Grubbs interview with William Harvey Grubbs (part one)

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This is the first of a two part recording in which Louise Grubbs interviews her father William Harvey Grubbs. This part of the audio is out of order; William Grubbs introduces himself in the middle of the recording, at minute 18:15. In the first section of this recording, William Grubbs recounts folk beliefs, superstitions, and ailment remedies such as the man in the moon, rubbing asafetida on the neck to prevent colds, and using fat meat to draw out splinters. At minute 6:55, William Grubbs discusses fire-side riddling sessions when his family entertained themselves before the advent of radio and television, specifically recounting several riddles. He then details additional humorous figures of speech and tells stories involving his Uncle Herman, Grandpa Johnson, and McNeely cousins. At minute 13:58, Louise Grubbs retells a story about William McIntosh, chief of the Creek tribe, who was killed by fellow Creek natives after selling territory to the United States. William Grubbs cites an anecdotal version of the story that he learned from his grandfather in which the Creek Indians were specifically angry about losing medicine springs. In this version of the story, U.S. soldiers tried to protect McIntosh. The recording briefly cuts out at minute 17:55 as the tape reel is changed. At minute 18:15, William Grubbs introduces himself and describes his hometown of Barnesville, Georgia. He details everyday life on the farm where he grew up and the history of the Grubbs and Johnson families. He recalls Grandpa Johnsons stories about growing up impoverished and how the family preemptively sold land during the Civil War before Yankee troops could take it. Grubbs also provides personal anecdotes about his family farms struggles in the 1920s due to Boll weevil infestation, including their need to transition from private to public school. At minute 30:10, the tape cuts out and starts again with a discussion around superstitions. The recording ends with Louise Grubbs highlighting the belief that it is bad luck to start something new on New Years Eve.
William Harvey Grubbs II (1911-1985) was born on a farm in Pike County (later re-named Lamar County), near Barnesville, Georgia, to William Harvey I (1877-1911) and Virginia Cleone Grubbs (1887-1967). He enlisted in the United States armed forces in 1942 and was discharged in 1945. In 1936, he married Sara Frances Ellis (1911-1958), and they had two children, Louise and William Harvey III. Additional biographical information has not been determined.
FOLKLORE 300 TERM PROJECT Louise Grubbs Mar. 10, 1969 11:40 Class Biography of Informant Folklife Discussion CONTENTS . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . l 1-4 15 Superstitions and 11 Remedies 4-10 9 Riddles 10-12 6 Sayings a.nd Expressions 12-13 Uncle Herman (Johnson) and the Baldness Cures . . . . . . . . . . . . Uncle Herman and the Heal th Food . . .. . . .. . . . . . . . 14 Family Version of the Death of William McIntosh 14 Uncle Carl Teaches Uncle Herman How to Swim . . . . . . . . . . 15 Uncle Herman and the Skunk Skin .. 4t Deception Concerning the Broken Vase .. .. Uncle HermHn Causes Friend to 1'.b.ink He's Ill . . . . . . Ill e The Two Crooks and the Vigilantes . . . . . . .. . . ... .. . . . . . . . 15 15 16 Uncle Herman and the Car . . Grandpa Johnson and the Car . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 16 J.6-17 2 Jests 1t Sis Whitaker and the Sow . . . . . . . - . . . . . . "' . . . . . . . Sis Whitaker Prophesies a Death 0 0 0 .. Ill 17 17 18 Sis Whitaker Reads Man's Thoughts . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 18 Farm Foods Discussion 18-19 (Note: The. informant is my father, William Harvey Grubbs. He ..-as born near Barnesville, Georgia in 1912. Farnesville is located about 20 miles south of Griffin on U.S. 41). I.OUISE GRUBBS: Mr. Grubbs, would yo give me a brief biography of yourself--where you were bornt when, where you grew up and a few things like that? MR. GRUBBS; I grei;-: up on a fratrm near Barnesville. Well, as the old saying was in those days, we hauled fertiliz,er from Be,rnesvil.le. Barnesville was a very thriving to.m, in those days, more so than it--than it is today. Uh, they had, uh, two boarding schools, Gordon Institute, it was known as in those days, and an A &M school. Both of them were high schools, bu.t, uh, Gbrdon was very famous a.s a preparatory school. It was a milit~ry school-RO'IC. And there were two cotton mills there. One buggy factory. And some other industry, I've forgotten. But, uh, it enjoyed quite a bit of cultur..e even in those days. Uh, my G'randfa.ther had a 200-aore farm and my mother had a 200-acre farm s67~a.djo;tning it-so I had about 400 aorE,s to run a.round on when I was young. L.G.: Uh, what county was this Barnesville in? MR. G.N' At that time it was in Pike County, but they created a new county, La.mar County, with Barnesville as the county seat. L.G.: Uh-huh. Could y,.ou--do you have any ideas what the major occupa.tions vere in Barnesville then? MR. G: The--i t was a fa.rm--a farming center and, uh, good, but there also was the--some--some industry. and some other industry. L.G.: How has Barnesville changed over the years? MR. G. : the farmland w:3 .. s very The two cotton mills It hasn't chimged a grer,.t deal, so far a.s I can SeE\. I haven't ,been there for any length of tirr;e in a grea.t many years. I 've been through S'O it a number of times, but l 've harcilly ever stopped. . But, uh, as- fa.r as the farming is concerned, it's almost non-existent now. When I was young, all of the farms would just be a beehive of activity, espeoia.lly during the planting and growing and harvesting sea.son. But now, all the ten2.nt farmhouses :nea.lly have been destroyed--torn down. You just don .. t SE,e them anymore, nnd the fa.rms are just, uh, untilled, idle land. 2 1.G.: Do you think you could describe an B,vera.ge da.y on the farm about this time of yea.r? About what time you got up a.nd ate, and who did the chores, and what you did for entertainment or relaxation in the evening? MR. G.: At about this time of year, things were not, uh, very active on the farm. This was the time of year when less was going on th!:'1n at any other time. Of course, uh, I was going to school and, uh, we would get up in time to get to school by, oh, I think it was 8:30 when school started-- a or 8:30. But we had to get up early and, uh, sometimes we would, uh, go to school in a horse and buggy, but most of the ti.me we went in the Model-T' Fora, and!J uh, we wouldn't get home 'ti-0. a.bout night. At about-at this time of year, uh, I didn't do any of the fa.rm "ork in the morning such as milking the aows and feeding the pigs and things like thii.-t. But, uh, in the afternoons, I would help ,dth the uh feE,ding of the ~1.nima.ls, and bring in stove wood that had been cut by somebody else during the day, and also wood for the fireplace. L.G.: Uh-huh. MR. G.: And at night, after we got through studying, we'd sit around the wood fire a.nd, uh, oh we"d tell stories and play games such i!'.s asking riddles. And we had. a.nether game--guessing things in the room. Somebody would pick out an object and give the initia.l ~na then everybody else had to try to guess what it W!!l,s. L.G.: Like, '"There's something in this room that starts with e. 'c'. What is it?'' MR. G.: Yes, tha.t' s it. L.G.: Uh-huh. Since there are several references in this to other relatives, could you give a brief outline about the Grubbs and Johnson family, um, especially about Grandpa Johnson and Uncle Herman? MR. G-.: Grandpa Johnson was born shortly before the War Between the Stateswe don't ca.11 it the Civil War because it-we take the position that it v.1a.s a war between two, uh, different governments, the Confederate States of .Amerimi, and the United States of America--and things apparently were very, very rough for him in his early life. Um, I remember him telling about., uh, going out to milk the oows in the early morning and, uh, he didn"t have any shoes, and in the winter the frost would spew u.p out of the ground and he had to run over that barefooted and he vrould kick the cows up i,-here they'd been sleepin' all night anc warm his feet there. And., uh, one of the things I remember him tellin.g about was during the War Between the States, they thought tha.t the Yankees were going to overrun the country and take all of the land so thEy decided that they should sell most of the la.nd--which they did. They were paid for it in Confederate money--barrels of it--and they spent da-da.ys anr1 days hiding the Confederate money--digging holes and hiding it in various ph.ces. I guess it's still there bee.a.use after the war was over, it wasn't worth digging up. Re (Gra.ndpa Johnson) didn't have an opportunity to get very much formal education, but he did have a very sharpt keen mind, and among other things, Ht one time in his early years, he was a cotton merchant. And he claims to h1we been the first person in Georgia ever to buy cotton by both grade ~nd staple. He was a person of very strong convictions, and one of his opinions was that toothpaste wou.ld--wa--wa.s not good for your teeth. But, uh, v1hen he went off to spend the day or longer than that, one of the things he insisted on w-;u11 that he would a.lways ca.rry his toothbrush dth him, and he would always brush his teeth after ea,ch meal, regardless of where he wa .. s. So, as a result, when he died at the age of 72, he had a full set of teeth. I asked a dentist a.bout that toothpaste bit years later, e.nd he sa.idt yeah, Grandpa was right because ba.ck in those days, toothpaste was just loaded with sugar, and that's the worst thing in the 'Jmrld for your teeth. He .was not very tall, an' as a matter of fact, I guess you'd say he was short, but he was real strong and I also remember him telling me about being a.ble to crack hickory nuts with his teeth when he wa.s young. His theory was that the soil was, uh, much better then than it is now, that throughout the years, the soil has eroded--a lot of the topsoil has washed a.way, but it was just, uh, what -.;-e would call "new land"' (should read 11new ground .. '} then, and he chimed that it had more vitamins in it than it does now, :{Thus giving him the strength to crack the hickory nuts). My Grandmother John.son was Lou Willia.ms--Louise Williams, and, uh, she was raised in the same genera.1 a.rea, but apparently she ha. .d . a much easier time in her youth than my Grancl:father did. And, among other things, uh, she ha.d servants to do everything in the.- 1wo!ltld for her. And I remember her saying that she had never even so much as combed her o.'n hair until she was praotica.lly grown. And she was a graduate of a college in Griffin, Georgia--it's not there anymore, but it was then the Griffin Female College. The ma.in thing I rf',member about Grandmother Johnso:n vms her great calm. I have never seen any pe.rson oho 1;\1as as calm as she 1i\'a.s under all circumstances. Uncle Herman (Johnson) and his brother, Uncle Carl both became lawyers, and my mother was v.rell-eduoated, too. And after the boll-weevil hit in the 1920's, things got pretty rough on the farm, so she taught school. Before the boll weevil hit, however, things were very, very nice on the :f8rm, and, uh, everybody wt,s prosperous and my sister and I both, uh, were attending a private school rather than the public school. But after that, we had to go back to the public schools which 1rere really very, very fine scheols .. I was never too well aoqua.inted with the Grubbs family. My father died 1;ohen I was very small, a.nd he wa,s: an only child 2.ncl his father died bPfOri:'J he did, so I didn't get to know them ver-J well. .But my Great Grandfdher Grubbs lived to be ."1,lmost a hundred. Ana. I remember him telling me one time when he \'li\S about 92, I guess, a.nd I ras five or sixsomewhere ;:,,long in there. H e said, "Boy, if you want to live a long time, there a.re two things youtve got to do.: One of 'um is. you muat -~;;.\';;;:: never worry a.bout Anything in the world, and the other one is, you must alw1-,ys get up from thE: t1::.ble feeling tha.t you could eat a little bit more. 4 L.G. s I sh0uld explain that if the iramework of this collection sounds like its been pre-arranged, it has. You've been telling me these things over the lnst f'e'.'' 1rneks and I've made notes and arranged them under certain he.:1dings like superstinons, beliefs, riddles, dialect, folk cooking, ~nd jocular sayings or te.les, and others. For that reason this won 1t sound like an impromptu intervlew .. MR. G.: No, well, they--there are things that we've talked about 0n a great many occasions all of your life-most of them--but some of them are things th8t I've thought of after you started asking me the questions and af - after you sta.rte('l ta.king this course in folklore. L.G.; O. K., you vnmt to go on to superstitions? MR. G.: We really didn't have too ma.iay superiJtitions,, uh but of course there .were the general superstitions of the, uh, people en the farm, and neighbors, and so forth, and we did learn a little bit about the superstitions of the people, although, um, I can't remember anybody in my 01/ffi--in my ovm. family ever being suspicious about anything much. We did have some suspicions-superstitions, yes. L.G.: Wh,it was the ene a.bout bald.headed people ? MR. G.: Oh, that's an- old sa.ying that baldhee..ded people :':l.re lucky. L.G.: Why dg you suppose they said that? .MR. G.: Um, well, maybe it's because they don't have to wash their ha.ir, I re.ally don't knO\v. L.G.: Uh, was there a saying--I think this is sort of a. contemporary one, but about the number of black-eyed peas you ea.t en New Year's Eve? MR. G.: Oh yes, there was a --just an old saying that you rill ea.rn a. dolle.r for every black-eyed--uh, during the year, you will earn a. dellar for every black-eyed pea you eat en New Yei<!.r's Day. L.G.: Dees it work? MR. G.: (Laughs) I hoped-I hope that v1e can do better than that. L.G.: ThilB is one that you and :Mrs. Grubbs told me a.bout, about sneeze, the belief is that you're rea.lly dead for an inste.nd. is thBt why you're supposed t@ say "Ged Bless you?"' when you And that's5 MR. G.: Yes, I--that is a superstition that crone 0ver from Europe, I believe. They think thAt the soul leaves the body for the insta.nt that you sneeze. L.G.: Uh-huh .. the sneeze? ,1 S0 they sa.y "G-od bless yeu in case you den't come out of liffi. G. : (Laughs) I suppose eo. L.GL: Um, let's see. What's the cme Uncle Herman told you a.bout walking around an owl? MR. G.: Oh. An ewl ca.n turn its head. aJ.most al.l the way a.round. And if you stert walking around an owl, he will follow you with his hea,d--turn his her,,d around and when he turns his head as far as it' 11 go then he turnm it almost all the way around the other way, uh, almost t0ward the ba..ck, and he' 11 start wa.tohing you then, an' watch you as you walk around there--as you continue walking areund him. And if you don't look quick, yeu'll think that the owl's turning his head all the wa.y a.round. And the joke, I guess you would call it, was that if you walk an owl-walk around an t11Wl twice, en the second time around his neok''ll bre~.k and it'll kill him. L.G.: Good way to e:xterminate owls. MR. G.: Yeah. L'~G.; What was the one about if you see a pig carrying a stick? MR. G.: Yes, that's supposed to be a sign of cold weather. Theoretically, the pig knows cold wea.thers coming and carries sticks in hia--its mouth to build a nest with. L.G.: D0 pigs really build nests? Uh, actually I've never seen a. pig nest, but that was the story, anywRy. L.G.: Uh, let's sec--this is a remedy to get rid of warts., MR. G.: Oh, to get rid of wa.rts there were sevefitl se-called cures--none of them ever worked--but one of them was to rub it with a. dry b0ne and bury it. Another was to rub it with a greasy dishrag. It didn't work. 6 L.G.: What was it, I believe it was Grandpa Johnson-c0rrect me if I'm \Vreng--he used te --had a cure f'or colds e.11 year e,reund.. A preventitive. :nm. G.: No, uh, I know wha.t you're ta.lking about, but Itve forgetten. It w~s s0me relative--some distand relative, and their theery was that-er rather their cure--was t@ line the children up and sts.nd them under the eavee f the house during the f'irst spring rain. And that was supposed. ts keep them :from getting 00lds during thE, entire year. L.G .. : Uh huh., Uh, whe.t is the cure for bee- -stings? MR. G.: The cure for b,,e stings, one of them I remember was to _put chewi:ag to1,acce on it. Uh, it didn't work, either. L.G.: How did yeu stop an owl from huting? 1Ht. G.: Well that's anether ene tha.t TOGETHER: didn't v.,@rk MR. C',.: either, ne, but thE saying w1>..s that if you take your shGe eff and tum it ever, the owl will step, uh, hooting, but no, it dii:"n't. L. G-. : Uh, ;.what was Grandpa Johnson's belief about starting things on Friday? MR. G.: He thought it was bad luokt and, uht he would never begin any--he would never start any maj0r project on Friday .. L.G.: O.K. There'IB als@ a belief that it's bad luck to start things en Nev,: Years Eve, th!'tt ms.y-I wonder if that's sert ef a. ca.rry-@ver frem that-er rather, nc,. It's bad luck to start things, something, before the old yee..r ends and not complete it befere the New Year begins. I believe that I s the 'l"m.y it g@es. MR. G.: I think that's just somebody's idea to keep from, uh, aeing work during Christmas and :New Ye,Ts and the holidays. L.G.: Oh, might be. Is there a belief about men in the moon? MR. G.: ~ ';l. There was an eld belief' tha.t the man in the moon onoe was a. person whe lived 0E. earth anc' that he was thrown into the moen as punishmunt for burning brush on Sunday. 1 L.G.: A.11d. um, let's see, the <1me you teld me about 0n Christme,s, all t).c cows getting ;';c;,,11:::.their knees':;: tffi. G.: Oh, well thatt @f course, is true. The way a cow gets up is by first getting on its knees 1.rnd then it stra.ightens up its hilld legs a.no gets on its hind legs and then gets up, uh, o:ne front leg at a time. But thd was e. superstition that,uh, the animals ;,ould get en their knees t0 pray 0n Chris tma.s morning, but it really isn't true, they' re just getting up in their n1;Drmal way. L.G.: They di;', that every morning. MR. G.: Yes, they did that Yevery morning. Uh, what is the belief about the new moon's shape? MR .. G.: '1'he shape of the new moon determines whether of not it will be dry or wet for the next m10nth. If the new moon is shaped so thn.t it will not h0ld 1,;a.ter, then it's going to be a wet month, but if it's turned up lil,l:e a bowl and will hold water, then it' 11 be 2. dry month. L.G.: 0.K., what's 1:m asafetida'?' MR. G.: Oh, thr t ~";,,s some vile-smelling stu:ff that s0me of thE' kids 'i;ere made t0 -rear ar@und their necks, fortunately, In.ever did, as I said, . our frcmily was not vecy supersticieus, but it W!:U!J supposed te kEEp the.m frem catching colds. What it did was to make everybody stay far en<imgh awa.y from you to y;;here you couldn't possibly catch a cold from thflm. L.G.: What is the bdief about seeing a redbird? Tuffi. G.: The old story ist that if you see a redbird, you will see a tramp. L.G.: And about snow staying on the ground? MR. G.: If sn0w stays on ground--en the ground fer three days, it will snow again i:n 10 days. L.G.: S@ we've got 3 more days to gc.1> before it snows ag9.in. MR. G.: (11!'1.ughs) Yes .,- '(: - I:-$\;,\> ;, 8 L.G.: If yeu tell a dream before breakfast, what'll happen? MR. G.: The old saying is that it will come true, but it never did. 1.G.: There's alse a--I read semewhere, abtmt if yl!im tell a dream before breakfast, it's ba.d luck. MR. G.: Oh yes, there are, I believe the.:t was, uh, some Egyptif'..n saying-- m@st of those 0ld sayings were brought over from, uh, the old cou..l'l.try. Uh-huh. I guess it was--if it -was a bad dream, it w0uld be bad luck (fer it te come true). MR. G.: Ye~ht I guess so. 1.G.: Uh, I read in 0ur,textbook by Dorson, that if you put a half a chicken Gn a. snake bite, that the snake-bite venom-'"'0r rather--yeah., the ven0m -will came Gut, and they (the writer) didn't seem like they believed that-the &fUY wh0 wrote the saying, or rather whe told absut it, but I know fr@m persenal experience a,bout putting fB.t meat en a splinter. What will happell. if yeu put fat meat (Im a splinter? MR. G.: Oh, y0u mean if y@u he.ve a splinter in, say in your hand and put fat meat im it, it will draw the splinter eut. Yes, it 11 de that. I've-I've done it myself. It werks .. L.G.: Uh-huh, I knovr. Uh, hew do yeu get rid <Df stys? _ rm. G-.: Accerding t0 the @ld superstitien, you g0 t@e the :nearest cr0ssr0ads and yeu say, tsty, sty get 0ff my eye; get on the nut ene that passes by.'' That one didn't werk either. 1.G.: I remember Grandmother Grubbs talking about (reoemmending) that. Uh, what class ef supersti.ti@ns 0r beliefs do you think 'l'ere mest prevele:nt? MR. G.: I really don't know, I never did pay t00 much attentian t@ theip, but, eif courset there were a. great many superstitions a.nd beliefs 8.bcaut the weather, especially among the .farmers because they lived se close to the '.',reather and were se dependent en the weather, s0 they did hfve a lots 0f superstiti0ns about it, but then they h2d 0ne to, uh make up for every time it failed, and that z.v.persti tfon 0r 0ld saying was that ''all signs fail in dry weather." L,G.: Oh no. 9 MR. G.: Yeah, they did. L.G. : I gu0ss there ,~.1ere a lot 0f beliefs about cures, too. MR. G. : Oh yes, rorlds of them, but mcst @f them were just, uh, absurd, I thought. L.G.: Whnt about-,ivell, how do you get rid of boils? Was there one 11b0ut that? :MR. G.: There was one, you take the leaf @fa, uh--what i;;;as the name of that plant? L~ G.: Pole berry (als@ known as poke weed). MR. G. : Oh yeah, poke berry, and put it on the boil. That's supposed t cure it. Actually, the b@il will ge away in time, 'Emyway. L.G.: Uh-huh. Whnt is the relief f@r celds? MR. G. ; Ah, I rea.d a relief-well, we did have a relief that we used, I don't think it was, uh, any form of superstition, just something ~re dreamed up. We would put R coupJe 0f drops of il of peppermint on a spoonful ef suga,r and e,"!t that. That would give us a little bit of relief* And ;-:,.ls0, We usec'l lemon juice and honey. It w~ts very soothing for a sore throat, but it difn't do it any g00d ernept just t0 so@the it. L. G.: 1r/ell, we still use thRt in our house now, don't we? fuffi. G.: Yes, I use it myself. L.G.: Uh-huh .. MR. G. : It's very, v~cy soothing. L.G.: What about ea.ra.ches'i MR. G.: Earaches, uh, the home remedy was to dr@p a coupla drops of warm oil into the ear. L.G.: And de you starve thE, fever and 10 MR. G.: Um-huh. I,. G. : Wni t g minute. Starve a fever" a.tad.... Feed a cold and ste,rve a fever? MR. G. : Feed ... -& cold. _Well, actually, when you have a cold, you also have a fever. So,. o (Laug11s).- .. L.G.: I've always wondered about tha.t. How did you get rid of freckles? MR. G.: Db, you didn't -really, but, uh',: spm.B:".people tried to get rid of them by rubbing them with buttermilk. It didn't work. L.G.: Um, 1md what did you do for toothaches? MR. G. : Um, fortunately, I never had too many toothctches rmd those \"ere things that I don't--we didn't have too much occasion to use rmy remedy for them, but, uh, once in a while, uh, somebody would have H. toothache and they would put oil of cloves on it, but, uh, as soon as possible, you went to the dentist. L.G.: Uh-huh,, Let's see, under riddles and games, you were talking about the riddling sessions that your family used to have at nigh-t around the log fire. Do you remember any of those riddles, like the one about "Round as a biscuit ?1' MR. G.: Oh yes, that was, uh, ''Round as a biscuitt busy as a bee, prettiest little thing you ever did see. 0 And the answer, of course, is a watch. L.G.: Let's see, there's another one like that that rhymes. Starts out "Houseful, roomful " MR. G.: Uh yes, I remember that one. "Houseful, roomful, can't catch a spoonful." Ano do you know the a.nswer to that one? L.G.: I do? Uh--it's either air or smoke, I forgot. MR. G.: Smoke. Yes. L.G.: Smoke, O.K. Uh, what would happen if a cow swallowed a rabbit? 11 MR. G.: Well, there would be a hare in the butter. L.G.: O.K. I shouldn't have (completed the first part of the riddle for you). MR. G.: H-a.-r-e, hare, that is. L.G.: Yeah. Um, something in your head thatts white and bites? NLR, G. ! < __ Oh, teeth. L.G.: O.K. You want to read it? (So that I wouldntt be giving the main part of the riddles). r(m. G.: Uh, yeah. *'11\'hat has an eye but cannot see?n And the answer was, ua needle. n And then there was the famous joke, uh, "What, uh, why does Santa Claus wear a read coa.t?11 The answer was, "'to match his red pants." Yeah, There's one like that today about why does a fireman wear red SIB panders. MR+ G.: Oh, yes, to hold up his pants. L. G.: Yeah. MR. G.: And then there was the one about "how do you get down off of a camel?0 Well, you don't get down off of a camel, you get down off o.f a duck. L. G.: O.K. Theres another one that rhymes like those first two. "Little Nancy Eddicoat ?11 MR, G.: Yeah, tt in a white petticoat. The longer she stands, the shorter she grows. it And the answer to tha,t one was ''a candle. '1' L.G.: Uh-huh e.nd one about Moses? r.m. G. : Where was :Moses when the light went out?n the dark." 1.G.: Oh. Obviously, he was 11in 12 MR. G.: Unless, oh yeah--assuming that it was night. L. G- . =: Uh-huh .And you say that, uh, the way you got the riddles for these sessions was, uh, that you read a lot of them? MR. G.: Yes, v,e would, uh, read--well, uh, we did read a lot, we didn't ha.ve too much to do on the farm. Of course, there was no radio or television in those days, and not too much travelt especially in the cold winter, so we re~J.d quite a. bit and, uh, books a.nd magazines. We found a lot of riddles in those. L.G.: I'm not sure how you classify some of these next ones, but I think they :probably fall under witty sayings, expressions, and. perhaps, to some e::rtent, dialect. What was it Grandpa said when he--or rfi.ther said about lies'? Tum. ci. : Uh, yes, I remember that. Uh, that wasn't Grandpa., that was Uncle Hermr,in. L.G.: Oh, sorry. MR. G.: He didn't really tell lies, he would just take the truth and, a.s he said, embroider on it~" He would improve the truth a little bit. L.G.: Oh, OK. Um, what was Grandpa's expressions for an illness? MR. G. : Oh, some, uh, he did have an expression. He called, uh, some types of i llnesses--illness, especially ones he knew wa.s f eigned--put on-"' the higallikin. flops."' L.G.: Oh, '';flops .. 11 MR. G.: YeRh. L.G.: Oli, OK. Where--do you know where tl11lt oa.me from? Did he just make it up'? MR. G-.: I suppose so. I never heard anybody else say that. L.G.: llh-huh. Uh, do you kno~ what the--the phrase he had when he wanted someone to be busy, he didn't want to see them idle':' 1; MR. G.: Oh, he was a veryindustrious person, and it just irritated him something awful to see anybody idle. And I guess I was pretty le,ey, and he would get pretty provoked with met and he would say, ":ioy if you don"t ha_ve anything else to do, jump up and down, or dig a hole and cover it up. But don't let me see ,you idle. L.G.: Uh, what's that, uh--well, question--it's not really a riddle, I don't believe, but, "What "s dumber than a dumb Norwegian?u- MR. G .. : That's an old, uh, joke. I don't kno,.,: where it originated., but the ansTTer was a 11 sma.rt Swede. 11 L.G.: I thought that was interestirig, because I read in my Medieval Literature book a couple of weeks ago that the Swabians once lived in the area where the Swedes~ive now, and I wondered if that was sort of a carryover from that. 1 really don't think it is, though, but it's sort of interesting that it's like that. (Note: On rechecking my source, I found that the Swabians occupied the area that is now Switzerlandt and not Sweden). I'll probably misspell a lot of words when I transcribe that. Did Grandpa Johnson have a:ny advice for people who might rea.d this? MR. G.: Yes, well a.s I said, Gf'andpe. didn't have too much forma.l education, and he would spell words the way they sounded, and he made a lots of mistakes in his spelling. So after he'd been tee.sed about it until he just couldn't stand it any longer, he said, "Well now, look. It's an a.wfully stupid person that can't spell a word but just one way. 11 1.G.: I agree. What was the expression th8.t you used for someone who was slow? }fil. G. : Oh, that's an old, uh--I guess you1d 01:1.ll it a joke. When you see someone that,, uh, just being real slow, r,.nd you're provoked at them, you yell at them and say, uLook, Grand.ma was slow, but she was 90!'' L.G.: These are some of my favorite ones. They're the anecdotes. They're ma.inly humorous, and usually they're about either Uncle Herman or Grandpa Johnson. And there's one I have here about the baldness cure. MR. G.: Oh, he (Uncle Herman) was, uh, he got--he got--bald when he was very, very young--in his early 20's, almost bald, that is. But he hEn a little patch of hair left on the top--sort of in the front, and somebody told him if he'd shave it off, it would come back thicker. So he shaved it off and it never did come back. But, uh, somebody came around--some crook rlth a gadget that w~"-~~ supposed to grow hair. It was nothing in the vmrld 'cept--'cept at.I:ampsha. de with a blue bulb in it. And he believed it and paid a big price for it. Of course, it never d.id grow any hair. 14 L.G.: Yeah, uh, wha.t--I like this one, about somebody told Uncle Herman tha.t alfalfa was a health food? MR. G.: Yes, tmd the bugga aetu.a.lly ate it. (Laughter). L.G.: Do you know what i t tastes like':' MR. G.: Uh, I would think tha.t it doesn't taste bad at all. 1.G.: Uh-huh. l!'IR. G.: Most of those, uh, plants don't taste bad, and some of them taste pretty good. 1.G.: Uh-huh. An anecdote is defined as a supposedly actua.l incident attached to local characters or celebrated persons. In the case of the Creek Indian leader, McIntosh, if he can be considered. a celebrated person, then the following is an anecdote about him. But first, I'd like to read this paragraph from ~ Indians Q.!, ~ Southeast by John R. Swanton. 11:As the lower Creek chief William McIntosh fa.vored the claims of the white inhabita.nts of Georgia, he and his supporters made an effort to show that the authority of Coweta was para.mount over that of all the other (Indian) towns, but when he signed a treaty surrendering the la.nds of the Confederacy, a body of Indians from the Upper Creeks attacked him in his home and killed him by burning his house.n Do you have another version to :this'? lffi. G.: Well, yes, uh, actually that's true, but, uh, the Indians were very angry because in that treaty, their famous Medecine Sprine:s at what we now ca.11 Ind.ia.n Springs wa.s lost to them, and they decided that they would just have to kill McIntosh for that. The English knew that his life was in danger, so they sent a detachment of soldiers to guard him. And they did guard him for some time, but one day McIntosh ordered the soldiers away, knowing that as soon as they left, the Indians would come in and. kill him, which they did. L.G.: Uh-huh. MR. G.: ThH.t has never been written in the history books, but, uh, according to Grandpa. Johnson, that's the way it happened, a.nd one of the soldiers vrho wa-was guarding McIntosh told him. L.G.: Uh-huh. I like the one a.bout Uncle Carl tea.ching his brother, Uncle Herman how to swim. 15 MR. G.: U th t f Uncle Herman W!::l.S younger and both of them vrrere ~-"-1 m, a wa.s unny. uh b k , th J vd. tty ~-nf full of fun and lively. So he says--they, , ac in ose dH.ys f.;hey used, uh, water wings made of jugs or goa.rds, things like tha.t to help them swim, before they could learn-before they learned to swim. And Uncle Carl-_ says, rtNow look, Herma.n.. Your head is hollow e.nd it will float, so you don't need anything on your head. _so tie the goards on. your feet.n- (Laughs) So he tied the goards on his feet and promptly his head went to the bottom and he nearly drowned. (Laughter). L.G.: Oh, what wa.s the one about Uncle Herman and the skunk skin? MR. G.~ Oh, he told one of the hands on the farm, that, uh, skunk skins r.ere vecy valuable. What brought it up was tha.t~ uh, we had caught one in what we called a basket trap, and he couldn't decide how in the <''Orld to get that skunk out of there. So he told this poor old gullible hired hand 'that, uh, the skin was valab1e--va.luable, and he would give it to him (Laughter) if he would get the skunk out and kill it. L.G.: Oh no. Ji.ffi. G.: He couldn't go home for a week. L.G.: Uh, what was the one a.bout the MoNeeJ.y cousins from Griffin, and one of them was accused of breaking a. vase? 1'/!R. G. : There were, I think, 13 of thoseMcNeely children. They were cousins of ours and they, too, were very lively and full o:f fun and wit. And the younger--one of the younger brothers--was defen--defendins himself against the claim that he had broken a vase or a pitcher or something. And he says, 11I didn't do it. God knows I didn't clo it, die! I, God?"' And one of h:is sisters standin in back of him sa.ys in a high falsetto, uy es you did, too." He says, "God, ~ou' re a damn lie.r, I dicln' t do it !'1; (Motif Kl97l.8, "Unwelcome answer given by man hidden behind image." "Man behind statue (tree) speaks and pretends to be God.'') L.G.: Do you remember the practical joke that Uncle Herman and some men pulled on a guy to make him think he was sick? MR. G.: Yes, this really is e.n e.x2mple of the pm,er of suggE)stion., They :framed up a.mong th ems elves and decided tha. t thet would try to convince one of their frlends that he was sick. So the first one of them that met him that .morning :,.sked him how he felt, and he said, ''Oh, I feel fine.'' And that one of the group said, "Well, yolil. sure do look sick. I just can't under stand it, you ought a see a.. doctor. " And they kept on that way, everybody tha.t--everyone of the conspiritors 1-ho s_,,, h:i.;,1 rem~'.r.ked ".bo,it how sick he looked. And bef'ore noon, the poor old fella cmne doY.rn sick a.nc1 had to go home. 16 L.G.: What was the one a.bout the two crooks and the vigilantes? }iffi. G. : 11ha.t wa,s Bnother example of the power of s1..1.ggestion. I don't know exactly how Grandpa found out about this, he never told rne 8.nd I didn't ask him, but it seems that, uh, the, a group of vigilantes caught a coupla men stealing horses, or doing somethi:nE t,ha.t they decicled they had to be shot for. But they--they were sure about one of them; they were not quite sure i:1,bout the other one, so they tied--tied 'um up to a tree. T'he one they were sure about they shot him and killed him, and the other one they fired into the air, and threw a glass of water into his face and he fell over dead. L.G.: Oh . MR. l}.: Yeah, I don't know whether it's worse to be shot or scared to death. L,G.: Yeah, right. What was the one about Uncle Herman and the car drowning out? kIR. G. : Oh, yeah, tha,t wa.s back in the days of the old Model-T. It was after they had developed electric headlights, but before the days of batteries. 'Fhe first car we had had kerosene lamps on front.,, You were supposedly abJe to see to drive a.t rlight, but you just hall. to creep along. But these lights were a little bit better---not much. But they worked off of a magneto. instead of a battery. The roads were very poor in those days, and he was out on a de..te one njglilt,._ and they got to a creek that they ha.d to ford. There was no bridge across the creek, and the old Model-T drowned out. The water was pretty deep, so--uh, well first, when the motor went dead, the lights went out, of course. So he set the spark, and the gas, and, uh, the brakes, but he forgot to turn the lights out. And when he went out to start the car, the water was so deep that he decided that he'd take off his shoes and his socks and his pants, and he waded out in the creek an' cranked the old Model-T and as he did, the lights oame on. liiGt: .And there's one about Unole--uh, Grandfather Johnson driving the car for the first time, or one of the first times. MR. G.: Yes, that was back in the days when, uh, things were very prosperous on the farm--cott.on was selling for 45 cents a pound, and they were making plenty of cotton--growing jm t worlds of cotton. And so, uh, he bought a_ Model":'"T Ford a,nd one day he decided that he WOJ ld--he was getting up in years then a..nd usually m:y- uncle drove the car, or somebody else--but it was his car and~ was goan drive it and thats all there was to it, so he cra.nked it up and drove it to a little town nearby, called Mil-Milner, Georgia to see some old friends. And he pulled up to the house and. he says, "'Woahl u 17 L.G.: Did it stop? Jlfill. G. : No, it didn't stop, but he finally got control o~ it and stopped it. And he drove it back home and that was the last time he ever drove e. car. L.G.: These are a couple of ,iests--or jokes that are untrue. What wa.s the remark Uncle Herman sa.id a.bout one of our ancestors? J\'IR. G.; That was just o:m of his jokes. I think he made it up. He said that one of our ancestors was swinging from tree to tree through tbe forest, ahd9 uh, caught cramp in his tail and missed the next limb and fell and it killed him. Uh, how di.a. you stop a dog from harking? MR. G.: Well, the old joke was that you cut its tail off--right behind it~ ears. I bet it worked. MR. G.; Oh, yeah,~ one worked. L.G.: Do you know a.bout any local fortune tellers or soothsayers in B11rnesvi lle? MR. G.: Yes, there was one that was very well known and people went to her from miles and miles a.round to have their fortune told. Andt uh, she did have a very good reputation and some of the things that she told was almost uncanny--almost unbelievable. U'.o, my grandfather went to her one time. He had lost his prize sow. It had been gone for about a week and he was--didn't--he was convinced that somebody had stolen his sow. So he went to Sis Whitaker and she says, "No, no the sow has not been stolen and don't worry about it, it'll be home in about ten days and there will be a lots of other pigs with it. ,.c, .And, sure enough, the sow came home with a litter of--a big litter of pigs. (Motif Dl814.1, ,.:Advice from fortune-teller. n) I remember another story about Sis Whitaker. One man went to her to have his fortune told and she thought a long time and finally she said, "You just don't have any fortune." And a few months later, he died. 18 I think we ran out of tape on that other one, but the one about the man who wanted his fortune told was that she thought f'or a while and then told him that he didn't have any fortune. And, uh9 a few months later, he died, or was killed. I've forgotten. it's been a long time ago. (Motif M341, "Death prophesied."') L.G .. : Uh-huh. :MR. G. t And then there was another one about, uh, two men that went,, .. to\1;, see her and one of them really wanted to, uh, get some information, and the other one vms just going along for curiosity. Well, the one that wanted the information, uh, ha.d his session with her, and the other one very obviously didn t believe in fo:r.tune-tell:i.ng and he as much as slid so. And so she told him, ~flell1 alrigh.t, you just think about something, and I'll tell you what you're thinking about .. " And the place she lived in was really a wreck. It was a disaster area if' there ever was one. And he ~as thinking what a horrible place to live that was, and she said, "Well now, you're thinking about something that's none of your business." L.G.: Would you tell us-under cooking--would you tell us what some of the most common foods you had on the fa.rm were? MR. G.: Well, being on the farm, we were in a-I would say--a.n enviable position. We had worlds of wonderful food. Some of it-if you go- to the store to buy now, it costs a young fortune. Of course, we had home-cured hams, and, uh, all kinds of pork products, uh, home-cured bacon and sausage and things like that. We a..lso had worlds of' chickens and eggs and milk that we--all--we raised all of that. And also on the farm, we would--we had the wild--um--anima.ls, I guess you would call them--rabbi ts and, uh, birds a.nd a.--quite a few fish. I even caught a great big eel one time. I didn't eat ari.y of it, but everybody else did. And vegeta.bles of all kinds. Just a.bout anything you could think of in the vegetable line. And we had, uh, oh, about ter+ acres of apple trees, and 1,e had worlds of apples, and we had -pee.ches. And the a.pples--we would pick them in the fl'lll, and, uh, pack them in barrels of sand so tha.t they would le.st on until the neJ';t summer. Then we had. a cider mill, and we would make apple cider,. which was very good. And, uh, t..'1-)_e, um--a lots of the vegetables and f'ru.i.ts were canned for the winter. And 1Ne'd also dry the--some of the apples and peaches. And, uh, of course, we had things like dried black-eyed peas and, uh, butter beans all winter long9 and during the winter, too, we would have, uh, collard greens. I knovl' that a lot of people turn up their noses at collards, but they a.re so full of iron that it's a wonder it don't climk ,,;hen i t--,:;hen you eat it. It' a a very healthful food, I would say. And, uh, also during the winter, we would make our o~~ lye hominy. And we made the hominy--well, we would make f'irst the lye to make the lye hominy with. We would leach tllie hickory ashes to make the lye. And then cook corn in this great big black washpot vd th the home-made lye. 19 And, uh, or- course9 out of the fat meat off of' the hogs, we ma.de our O".'!l la.rd. And, uh, the meat that was left over from making the 12.rd &.f'ter a.11 the fat \"as cooked out of it, it was, uh, fairly dcy, and,uh, it had a very good :flavor. We called it cracklin's,11 and :with that they mnde what they called "shortening bread" out of the craoklin's. It was cornbread with, uh, oracklin's in. it, and I thought it wc:.s delicious. And we also had, uh, oh, a coupla acres of ribbon cane, and we he.d our otm cane mill and, uh, what they ca.lled a "pan11 to cook the juice in. It w2s a, oh, cop]Jer p,:t.n, I guesst about te:n feet long and four feet wide. We woul6 pour the cane juice in. it, and we had a, um, place built up, made out of rocks to put the pan on to cook the syrup. And I also remember going do,1:n to the O!.".ne mill in the early morriings-real cold weatherthe :f'ros!; would be a.11 over the cane and it would be cold and I would sta.nd there with a glass and catch a glassful of that cane juice as they ground it early in the morning, and it was cold a.nd sweet and delicious-oh, it was good. We also grew our c,i'Jn wheat, and I would carry the wheat to the mill in an old two-horse wagon,get it ground and, uh, it was real good flour-fresh and sweet. 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Professor John Burrison founded the Atlanta Folklore Archive Project in 1967 at Georgia State University. He trained undergraduates and graduate students enrolled in his folklore curriculum to conduct oral history interviews. Students interviewed men, women, and children of various demographics in Georgia and across the southeast on crafts, storytelling, music, religion, rural life, and traditions.
As archivists, we acknowledge our role as stewards of information, which places us inaposition to choose how individuals and organizations are represented and described in our archives. We are not neutral, andbias isreflected in our descriptions, whichmay not convey the racist or offensive aspects of collection materialsaccurately.Archivists make mistakes and might use poor judgment.We often re-use language used by the former owners and creators, which provides context but also includes bias and prejudices of the time it was created.Additionally,our work to use reparative languagewhereLibrary of Congress subject termsareinaccurate and obsolete isongoing. Kenan Research Center welcomes feedback and questions regarding our archival descriptions. If you encounter harmful, offensive, or insensitive terminology or description please let us know by emailingreference@atlantahistorycenter.com. Your comments are essential to our work to create inclusive and thoughtful description.