Susan E. Brown interview with Hershel “Hut” Adams and Zena Mae Adams

The John Burrison Georgia Folklore Archive recordings contains unedited versions of all interviews. Some material may contain descriptions of violence, offensive language, or negative stereotypes reflecting the culture or language of a particular period or place. There are instances of racist language and description, particularly in regards to African Americans. These items are presented as part of the historical record. This project is a repository for the stories, accounts, and memories of those who chose to share their experiences for educational purposes. The viewpoints expressed in this project do not necessarily represent the viewpoints of the Atlanta History Center or any of its officers, agents, employees, or volunteers. The Atlanta History Center makes no warranty as to the accuracy or completeness of any information contained in the interviews and expressly disclaims any liability therefore. If you believe you are the copyright holder of any of the content published in this collection and do not want it publicly available, please contact the Kenan Research Center at the Atlanta History Center at 404-814-4040 or reference@atlantahistorycenter.com. The audio level of this recording is very low. The first part of the transcript describes Susan E. Brown interviewing Herschel Adams about smoking rabbit tobacco, his Uncle Tom, and remedies for illnesses. The recorded part of the interview starts on page 17 of the transcript with Zena Adams, who has delivered many children, listing tips for midwifing. Tips include taking black pepper tea to dull labor pain, and drinking milk and eating vegetables to ensure a healthy pregnancy. She recommends catnip tea as the only suitable alternative to breast milk because it cures hives. At 3:38, Brown and Adams talk about making necklaces for babies out of bull nettle root to help with teething and stimulation or cutting the teeth. Herschel Adams adds that the necklaces can also be made of Jerusalem Artichoke root. At 7:05, the group discusses urban versus rural medicinal traditions, and Brown notes the expense of modern medicine. At 7:38, Herschel Adams tells a story about his brother becoming increasingly sick and weak. A doctor was unable to cure him, but his father succeeded through home remedies, including tearing up herbs from the side of the road. Adams refers to his father as an herb doctor whos herbal medicines were always the best cure. At 12:30 until the end of the audio, Herschel and Zena Adams detail herbs and their uses, including golden slipper to calm nerves, heart leaf for heart trouble, and button-snakeroot tea to help sleep. Herschel Hut Adams (1902-1979) was born in Cleveland, Georgia, to John Helium Adams (1862-1944) and Mary Eva Adams (1868-1947). He had seven siblings and worked and lived in Cleveland. Zena Mae Adams (1906-1984) was also born in Cleveland, Georgia, to Thomas Hunt (1873-1942) and Georgia Free (1879-1962). She married Floyd Barrett in 1924. After his death, in 1929 she married Herschel Adams. The couple had one child, Hazel Elizabeth Adams (1942-2021). Additional biographical information has not been determined. ~'I',..,'"( t ,'I ", \ ) I I '/ (}, ;,~. ( AHC Oral History Cataloging Worksheet File Information Catalogue number ~Ai' ., \ ' ,J') \00';(, 1'\ (jt:; Source Field' (ContentDM) ~."--'- Release form Yes6~~) Transcript Yes or No scanned: From Yes or No Default text: Contributed by an OR: Donated by individual: individual through <your org. name> Georgia Folklore Collection through <your org. name> Object Information Enter information about the phvsical object here: Title I-\c,(~)\ (\\ ",,\ ..\ II :,\,L, ','j (interviewee 7i' ",'" \ \"" A,),. 1 1':., name and date of interview) Description (bio on interviewee) . tA ll \ v ("t'" 11"1. ' i. " , , r 1.\ . Creator '(Enter either an individuai's name or an organization) Collection Name (within the organization) Burrison Folklore Class Georgia Folklore Archives ""( I ~ p?' \ Creation Date Exact Date (yyyy-mm-dd) (use only one) f-cYCe-:-- a - r -(if-o-n-Iy-th-e-y-e-a-ri-s-k-no-W-n-)--+-------------------i Circa (4 digit year) Object Type Media Format (VHS, reel to reel, etc Recording extent Derivatives Recording clip Time code for clip (h:m:s) Year Span Image_ Text Text and image _ Video and sound Sound onlY-2 Reel-reel Hours: Minutes: :~;), Access copy: Yes or No Beginning: II: ',) (, From To Access copy format: Clip extent: 1'. ( , ,). ..k Notes (interview summary) ~;\(' A,)~ I"'" ,Idl, (')I\:\;J\ I< '<II) \ '\k 1",\,1,,;\\ ; \IS ,>\L ,\"" A (AI ", c' \ . ,-'" '" O\:A.l~ ~o)i:)"'c.,.,.:J\ \)1', I ~ \\,~)(0,) 1"" Cl" ) " '. \; \ Recording issues (background noise, echo, VOId if" ) \Iu \ (II,~ \ "I , static, etc.) b~(\' I ) (0 ). , ,1"",\'.;(S;rc;:I,,' Subject Information Enrer .Infortm"a Ion a'bout the content 0 f the Ob)l'eCt here: Subject Date Exact Date (yyyy-mm-dd) (use only one) Year (if only the year is known) Circa (4 digit year) IQ(o (\ Year Span From To SUbject Who Last Name First Name MI !\i)!' I ..... " ,1(\ ':)i ,\I " (I I" '1 1 /'1 AJ,~IA" ~J,),(' ) " Subject Country State County Town ) Local Name Location' G/\ [' k \Id"" ... Subject What AHC Cataloger will complete this for you. (LOC SUbject headinos onlY) Keywords Burrison, John Personal names See SUbject who for additional names . '. , . . Corporate names Geographic locations . Topics FIELD PROJECT INTRa. TO FOLKLORE for JOHN BURRISON hb' SUSAN E. BRm/N. GEORGIA STA1.'E COLI,EGE ~larch 10, 1969 I'linter Quarter My informants were (Mr, and Mrs,) Hershell "Hut" and Zena Mae Adams. Mr. Adams is 66 years old and Mrs. Adams is 62 years old. Both have lived~: t.{eveland, Georgia (White County) all of their lives, as did their part\\ ents before the. Mrs, Adam's father was a preacher and Mr, Adam's father ~ was a farmer and herb doctor. I met my informants through a friend and fellow Gem'gia State College student, Donnie Richard. Donnie has, for the past six summers, worked at Camp Barney Medi1;z, a Jewish boys camp in Cleveland, Georgia. Over the past six years, Donnie has come to know "Hut" quite well, as "Hut" is one of the caretakers for the camp. Donnie came along with me on the interview. His financ"', Adrina Grayson, also came along. Mr, and Mrs. Adams told us that they didn't really know any stories or Buch aB that becauBe, as childrcn, everyone was al\~ays too tired from doing chores. I suspect that this waBn't completely true and that they ~Iere perhaps a little embarressed to tell them. So, rather than push it, I just let them talk about their early life in hopos that I might hit on something elso, And I certainly didt Theso pooplo know quite a bit about "home cures" or folk medicine, and were more than gla.d to toll us all about it. Both Mr. and Mrs. Adams learned these cures from their paronts, ~Iho learned them from their parents and from Indians. As montioned before, Mr. Adam's father was a herb doctor in the town, He \1aS ill himself in his last years, and although he did go to a doctor, he used herbs on him(9i\ JJf as well. Mr. and Mrs. Adams live in a modest home (with no bathroom - they use the wood" in the rear) that is located dO~1I1 a dirt road off the main highway. They have a little bit of land, and some chickens and cows. As mentioned before, Mr. Adams takes care of the "Je\~ Camp", as he calls it. They are very cordial people, and were very nice to all of us. They luI invited back :in the spring, ~Ihen they could t,"ke us out in the woodB and ~ Bho~1 us tho herbs and plantB when they are in bloom. In the transcription. the following abbreviations are used for speakers: Hr, Hershell Adams 11.A, Hrs. Zena Hae Adams - Z.A. DAounrunliea GRriacyhsaornd DA., Susan Brmln S. Note: Hr. Adams directed alot of his conversation to Donnie, because he knows him better than the rest of us. Note: I could only get one picture of Hr. and Hrs. Adams. However. when I return in the Spring to do further work in this area of folk medicine. I will take more pictures of them. II y}i ( Mr. Adams Donnie \'Ie'd go ta school 'un - you've se'ed this old rabbit terbaccer that grmvs out in tha field, ain't cha? Ole wide leafy stuff, ya know, got 'em ole long leaves grows out thata way (gesturing). Rabbit tobacco. Mr. Adams Donnie Habbit tabaccer. a that, yah know, and ya know, an' smoke. Yeah Well, we'd git out an' gathuh us up a poke we'd jest go up an' taken 'n aI' brovm paper, Mr. Adams Donnie Adrina Mr. Adams Donnie Mr. Adams Dad, he got a suspition uv us. (Laughter) So, uh, he said," You boys a been smokin' .. " An' I said I didn' think we had. (laughter) I'lell, we whodn' smoking no straight tabaccer. We wuz smokin' aI' rabbit tabaccer. So, uh, by June, uh, one day - Turn the sound up. It is up. One day, uh, we went ta school, y;, know, an' wuz comin' back an' come up on top uv a hill, ya know, an' right down anuther 'un, just alittle ways frum the tcp uv tha other 'un. He hid up 'ar in a fence corner. Oh, 'un we 1'IUZ smckin' up a fog. (Lauf';hter) An' he said , " Vlait a minute, boys." (Laughter) So, uh, he says, "I se'ed cha smokin' an' I know that ain't tabaccer - what are ya smokin'?" I tol' lim, rabbit tabaccer., Well, he Sctys, "That's smokin', anyhow, whodn' it? An' I says, "Yeah." Well, he says, "Boys, I'm gona tell ya. Ya better not smoke no more. Hit's bad for ya. An' I don't want ya ta smoke." 'Nell, we vlfit on, ya know, an' did well for three days and decided well, he done p'J,um fedot about that. Back'en, folks commenced, ya know, sElWin' 'abacca beds, ya know, an' raised thir own home-made tabbacer. They'd han!:! it up, ya know, and dry it, ya know, an' they'd chew hit or do whatever they pleased. We got sneakin' through the tabaccer, ya know, an' get hid. An' we started pinchin' some tabaccer, ya know. ,Well, he got ta watchin' us Hgin, an uh, finally caught up with u&~~''''Well, he W),lZ up on us. Vlell, we stuck clear off a few more days, y{know, an', uh, one day hit 'uz rainin', an' one uv us got a big box full of tabaccer, good stuff. We got 'is, now its twisted 'abaccer. An' he eventicilly caught up with us an' said, "Now, boys, I'm gona, tell ya." Now, he said, "If yer gona srnoke,this yere tabacca, you'll have ta come out plain with it." He said, "Don I t be slipp1n' around." He says,now, he says, "Now, I'll tell ya." Says, "There's jest one step toward stealin'." (Laughter) An' hit wuz in a way. We'd slip in 'n gi't it, ya know. 'fhat is .just like stealing and stuff. Yeah. But we meant ta have 1t. "Now, bo.ys," says, "if you have ta smoke," says, "como out with it," says, "not ta slip it." Well, 'at wuz right. D. H.A. D. Su.san H.A. S. H.A. Mrs. Adams If.A A. H.A. D. D. A. H.A. A. D. Z.A. B.A. VIell, did he ever, rlirl he ever, say what harm you - would happen to you? Yeah, he said it 'ud hurt us. Us younguns, 'at is. But I been smoldn' 'em thangs ever since I kin remember. I smoke a can a Prince Albert a day. ( f1 \~~"toOk alright to me - smell alittle strong. (laughter) /l~e~l; I gi~ a can uv it a day. (pause) Shir do. ! How many cigarettes can you make out of one can? Seventy. You smoke seventy cigarettes a rlay? Seventy cip;arettes to a can of tabaccer. No wonder VIe' re poor. (1,a1lp,hter) No wonrler I'm mean, I guess. Oh, say, I want ta ask ya somethin'. (to Adrina) Were you up hyere to the Jon Camp last summer? No. Well, I wuz thinkin' she \Vuz. That \Vas another one. (laughter) Mr. Ad"ms, uh, tell me, uh, did your mother ever tell you any, you Imow, church stories and things like that. Things to make you do right'l Do you know any ghost stories'I I love ghost stories. No" I don't know any. No? Well, Huhshell, tell 'em 'bout that Uncle man scired you'uns one timo with a sheet. One time, we 'uz jest little kids, so, uh, thar 'uz Uncle 'rom. Well, we'd go up 'ar 'n stay a week it a time, ya know, 'n, we'd just have tha biggest time, yo. know, 'n we jest thought, well now, that wuz the !(reatest thing in tha world. Ya know, 'n he just had us, ;y"a know. ,just two 01' people thon. \"Ie's jest kids, 'n we'd go up 'ar, , ya know, 'n any~hin' we wanted, we got. Well, we got to. wantin , to slip out at night. So, he didn', he didn' Vlant that. HG wantGd us ta stay in I ar whar he cud see us. l'Iell, he decided, ya know, well, I don't, know, lain' t gona whoop ya, I'll get by with yfJ. some way e1' anuther. So, uh, 'un, 'n, made A. H.A. D. H.A. A. s. H.A. S. H.3. Z.A. D. B.A. o. D. him a great big ole horse's head, ya know, out uv a sheet, ya know. Cut a piece in 'er ta make it's ears look like a horse, ya know. A big ole mouth, y'a know, black, jest like a horse's mouth. So, we's out thar 'n 'uz pluckin' his apples off tha tree, ya know. Yeah. Be didn' like 'at much. Be got, ma.de 'im tho. horse's head, yo. know, 'n went out 'ar 'n we whodn't gone but jest a few minutes. He got his ole horse's head, ya know, 'n put hit over his head, yo. lmow, 'n come on wo.y around, ya knoVl, 'n he wallu)d up on us, 'n we se' ed tho.t, 'n boy, you talk about runnin'l (La11ghter) Vie's scirt (scared) to. death. We knocked tha door down tryin' to. git in. (Laughter) That would keep you from going out. He broke us, too. Did you ever find out it was him that was doing it? After Vie got bigger, why, we found out. But, he didn't tell you the);!? No. I just happened to tank of something. When you were smaller', did uh, your parents or any of your relatives or any, you know, like your teachers, and like that, did they ever tell you about, uh, ways to, uh, let me see how to phrase this. Superstitions, I guess is the word I'm looking for. But, uh, thrtngs like if you, if you see, uh, uh, "red sky at night, that it, it was going to be sunny the next da.y. Or No, I don't reckon I ever did. Or say, well, I know one, one of the superstitions, I guess that most people believe in is if you drop - is it if you drop salt - th~.t you should pick it up and throVl some over your left shoulder, for good luck? Did they ever tell you any things you could de to have good luck when you were little. No, I'll tell ya, they shor didn't. Th,a trouble with our parents whin we' s growin' up - they' s always out at work an' when thp. night come, you hit tha beel, you didn' talk like that 'ar anythin , when we's raised. Di.d they ever tell you things like if you didn't behave the way they nanted yoU to - did they ever say, you know, things will happen to you, like - I heQ.rd, yeah, I hOQrd some tel. that, but not too much. Wen, They clidn' say much, they just, slap-ped cha dOYIl1. (Lcmghter) 'rhey di.dn't have to can in any outside help, they could take care of it themselves. Z.A. You know what my daddy'd always do when we wu'" little'l ONE time he tal' us ta do anythin' - we didn' do it we got up 'n ate 'ar dinner summwhar's else. We knoVl'd ta run. (Laughter) Now, that's jest tha. way VIe's brought up. Now they, they didn' have tao speak ta us but one time 'n VIe know'd ta go. And ya cJidn' give no argyen neither. Well, back yonder whenever I's jest "- kirl, ya know, uh, weIll's jest about ao' unugh ta go ta school. My daddy, he took arsyphilus, ya know, and he hn.d solid sores from thaI' down (gesturing). On both arms. 'N we hauled him ta tha docter ever day 'n had ta flal'm too, ya know, 'n we jest had t@. work like fighting' forty ta even live. That's tha way we wuz. Ya see, \Ve got knocked out "- school on that account. (Pause) 1'11 tell YR., folks thinks now that they have a ha.rd time now, but they never had nothing of it what we had vThin we' skids. D. I could say, I could imagine, but I can't. I really don't, I really don't know how it was. II.A. Z.A. Z.A. A. Z.A. A. D. Z.A. Z.A. Ya' know, ya knOYT, I'll tell ya. Back yonder whenever I's kids, y,~ take a - they whodn' t no harin' out (hiring out) like thaI' is now. What cho got, _eho grm'fed that in yore own farm. tt'l\ You'd fix it 'n put it up 'n have plenny ta eat. You'd take ole big barrels, ya know, 'n put up pickled beans 'n krout, 'n roastin' ears, all seeh t:ls th@.t, ya know. Smoked apples. Smoked apples - dried apples. I've never had that. That sounds good. Uh, ya know, they take 'um, uh, git 'urn a big ole barrel 'n, uh, ya know, jest like a dry 'um now, 'n they put 'um in fA sack 'n hung 'urn over a barrel, 'n put that sulpher down in thaI' 'n set a far (fire) 'n smoke them apples and cook 'um that awa.y. Good, that sounds good. Do you all do that anymore? Not now, we don't. (Laughter) No, but - Vie put 'um in cans now. (Laughter) 1I.A. No, but I'll tell ya, now ta tell tha honest truth about this hyere thing. Back yonder whenever we' s just kids, agl'owin' up, ya grow it on :\. L'n.l'nl, put. it in b;u.-;rCJls, In c;~).n it, In hung it up 'n dried it, and whot you had, you had, you raised it on tha farm. Ya cudn' go ta store 'n buy it., Z.A., When you got yel' taters, ya healed 'um up in seed 'urn 'n, ya know, ,:," straw, hay - ya had ta git out 'n pull ole crabgrass - cornstalks, 'n healed 'um up, turnips, cabbage - that's whot, uh, ya know, they'd have ta eat all durin' tha winter time - ceptin' whot bright stuff - (Garbled phrase":, everybody ta.1ks at once) . II . ',' 'N 'ar taters, 'n grade all them,d,i\;~~~;;v:)i~~i~;'(,~a'L.i~:~put them in a place ya know, whar they wUdn't/~it too hot 'ner, 'ner not too cool. Y3. know, whal' they're safe. (\You go git 'em out, ya know, 'n they have little ole eyes in 'em, ;v@. know, 'n ma.ybe little ole stems in I em 'bout that long (gesturing) y@. know, sproutin' out. Cut them eyes out, ya know, 'n go out hore 'n peal 'n lay ya offa spirt 'n plant 'em. D. B.A. D. B.A. ZfA. P1@.nt them aga.in? 'N whin they started t@. come up, yeah, you'd work 'wn. It was hard work? Yeah. It whodn' sech hard work, I enjoyed hit. (Laughter) B.A. But, uh, back, back then, what you had, yo. had it on tha farm. You didn' have it like ya have it now. D. You couldn't go out and just go buy it? H.A. Oh, no. I'll tell ya what I know. I know my daddy, right here, he drive frum hyere ta Gainesville - ta:j:e en ole two horse wagon.. He'd go down 'ar 'n he'd buy uh, coffee, $S.OO a hunderd. D. A hundred pounds? B.A. A hunderd pound a coffee 'nl\it groen, ;va know, 'n bring hit up here. 'N I, I, I, why Lord,a mercy - it comes ta me jest's natural @.s it wuz yesterdy. An', uh, he'd uh, go down 'ar 'n buy a hunderd pound @. ceffee 'n he'd git two '1' three sacks while he's dewn 'ar. ns.oo a sack. Go down 'ar 'n git - D. Ought to lust awhile. H.A. Huh? D. Ought to l@.st awhile. B.A. \'Iell, he'd go down 'ar 'n while he's dorm 'ar, he'd go in 'ar ta them stores 'n buy- a hunderd pound a sugar fer ~,. dollar. A. Boy, I wish 1'10 could buy that for a dollar. (Laughtor) B.A. Well, while he's thaI', 'n maybe somotimos he'd ta.ke two wagons. Well, uh, he'd go in 'ar an' uh, git three 01' four sacks a brov/l1 sugar 'n it 'uz a dollar R SlIck - a. hunderd pound sack fer a doll~.r. D. VIas a dollar easy to como by or "/:as it, a doll:ar hard - ]-f.A. A dollar wuz harder t:a git then Ion fifty is now. D. Hoally? ]-].A. Yes, sir. D. Well, uh, ya know, if ya did most of th&\ work on th" farm, how did you mil.ke money? B.A. You didn't make money - much. You commenced in tho fall uv tha tar that wa.y an', an', uh, savin' yer money fer tha next fall to pay ye'll' taxes wHh. Then, yer tlJxes whodn' over .fifty cents, then. But you, H wuz h:a1'd/up, uh, fifty, fifty cents then as it is fifty dollars noVi - or maybe a(hl~~d(~f1d now. IN tha1' whodn' no money - no llloney in ci1'cerltion .5. Uh - (I H.A. You jest [;0 out h;y-e1''' an' uh, buy wagen load fo1' noth - nGa,rly nothinI. to pay texes with. I remember that. 'mythin , that way, a, you gH 11 Jest so's ya got a few pennies, S. Well, I lllGntioned, you know, if it was pretty hard to come by money and so forth and so on, uh, what did you do when you got siok? I mean, lots ff times I don't supposo you could call ~. doctor. What did you do to make yourself well when you got sick back then'l 2.A. They doctered us with hel'bs, , "., . Z.A. s. flu. Oh, really? Ylhat kind? Oh, they's Buttorfly, 'n BuLtorfly? Wh"t do you do with Butterfly'l Make hit, I, ya knew, make hit, mllke tea. out uv it when ya have tha A. Yeah, 1'oa.lly? jl,,\,yL':o 2.A. Ya know, they buy thitingOl' - whe, ya know, they got hit in big ole blocks noVi. It whodn'tJ pulverL,ed. Why, they'd m,,]{e te;;, oud8, hit. 'N uh, they use, uh, polish\(:pelise) - they'd make' "Iun otlcl,t"keresene 'n turp!mtine 'n, uh, 'n beeswax '1' 1::l.l'd - sompin' like 'at, Put hit em yor chest if' n you t;;,ken' :a cold. 'N I that's th,a way they docterecl aha. S. And did it, and did it make you well? Z.A. D. Y",,,h, hit did, it You s,,"y Butterfly flios'( polish did it. that's like ,';}Jl insoct'( You know, tho ona that ( Z,A. H.A. \ Z.A. H.A. A. H.A. s. out it, ., You nover did sea no Buttorfly'l No, no, I'll toll ya, Hit's n. y,dluh flyer (flower) - It's n., it1s a Oh, it's n.pln.nt. It IS Dl. weed. It I s A. red flyer in the vlinter 'n drivo uh, sticks up by hit. theyI rl go dig tha root. And tho roots is what you uso. time. SUHmlEH' time 'n, \lh, thoy got I N then, uh, see nhon t,ha frost kills H.A. Roots, tho roots is whot you uso. Hit's a th,ll1g grll>ws up - "h, about that high (gesturing) I nit's jost ,,-s yoll"r with flyers in thB. sumrnertim" is hit cin be. Well- S. Was it, was this root pretty plentiful, you know, like pelDple could get it any time they VI,,-ntod? s. d0',I Okay', well, suppes", suppose that didn't Vlork - wh~.t olso c>uld y,m Uke, liko j,f yC>U really had a bad cold? Z.A. Woll, they jost doctored yn on till ya got Vloll, soo. Wh",t other kinds of horbs or r"ots 8.nd stuff did they use'l Z.A. Well, they used lots a kinds, but I can't romotnber. Thor' VlUZ many. Uh - D. ILA. D. H.A. Do you remomber, do you remembor any others, Well, I'll toll ya, they'd git out 'n git But~ol1-Sn;ake R0t1t. Button-,'Jn"J<e Root'? Butt0n-Snake Root. Yeah. H.A. Well, hit's jest a little 010 grub, jest a.bout that big (ges~urillg) 'at grons up ouda th". ground. Z.A. 'N it had R blue flyer. H.A Yeah, It had R blUG flyer. Well, you r;o hunt th&t up, t'lke yfiJ. fiJ. stJ.ck, jest lik" tha one you file down, ya know, 1'lh"n you survey. an' ya mark on 'at stick vlhet that wuz. ,J0st like uh, uh, gittin' hyere 'n surveyinI, ya. lmol'l. Be differnt numbers. Well, out Z.A. VIh"t wyz that stu rf, Huhshell, we used to go on tha mountain 'n hunt, uh, 'n ms.ke tea oud uv? Hit tasted good. H.A. Button-Snake Hoot. Z.A. H.A. No, hit 1'Ihodn' ,,,-to Some kinda Gin, whodn' hit? It 'uz Gin. That, that l'IUZ Gin. Z.A. Gin, uh, ;myw8.y, they'd ge gather tha leaves off huv it 'md dry 'em a.n', uh, well they'd didn' - n' they'd dig this, uh, Sa.ssyfras root, yhl. lOiCJw. A. 7..A. Hum, Sassafras te. Yeah, ya. know, it tastes - tha.t's whtY~ thl3Y call p .. - ya know, 'n thl3Y make hit 'n that'll build ya bloed up. An', uh, that Gin, hit wuz sorta like tea. they drink now, but, In they'd make tea ouda hit fer e"lds, ya know. Ma~e,fiit hot. 1)( 1/, /1 i'-" What about if somebody had, uh, arthritus, you know, they couldn't move their fingers or thinc;s very well. 7,.A. Well, I'll tell ya wha.t they used ta do fer tha.t.. They, uh, got these rich pine 'n run tar 'n they put hit em th," b",ttoms huv yel' foot rn draw tha.t pain down. TAPE BROKE AT THIS POINT. nl'mINII~:I CONTINmm ON TAPE //2, 'rfm 'fHI\NSCrUPTION OF WHICH BEGINS ON ~l"~XT PAGE. A. s. Z.A. s. r' m fl'"m the city, but I think I'd lov," country living :" whole lot i bErr;Ler. \'Ill'lt ~,hout, uh, what did y'm did whom wemen had babies? lie used 'l midwife on 'ern. And did, and did she use any, ll.ny kind of things like to deaden the pt<in? Z.A. (La-ughting) TJl<tck pepper tet<. That's ab'lUt ,,11. ~3. They give them vlha t OJ Z.A. Black pepper tea. s. A. Z.A. A. IJlack peppcr tea'! Vlhat would that do? Vlhen ;a woman was prcgmmt? ah, Llrd, I've hcllped deliver mo,ny'" betbe (can't make lut tha flest) Really? S. ['las there ,my k(rl~d or special things that you ;a.t" or dr8.nk while, while you wer" pr(Jgn'lnt th~.t, you know, made yOU healthi"r or m.de y"u stronger'! Z.A. Well, you low\'I, th"y did thinr,s li.k" drinkin' ple"nya milk an', ya know, .m I ycp,t.bl"s. S. Yeah. Z.A. An' be, ya know, its j6st C4lWS, ill1' they drunk ther milk know, 'n they stayed healthy. with me. difJ'nrent an' itis now, ya s"e. 'fhey hOld Olnd everthang, 'n eat th~.r vegtables, ya I've had ten 'n never did have n@ docter s. Wh;at, wh;at exactly did the black pepper tea d? Z.A. I don't know what hit me:mt. She (her mother) sa.id ta arrest tha. p.?in. S. Arrest the p.~in? Z.A. Uh-huh. s. Vlhat about when the baby was young. I mean, yon lmow, when it was just born and so J'orth and so on'! Uh, WIli.S there a.nything special that, YI'J\! c'mld r,ive the baby to rna.ke i't - 7..A. Nothin' but br<'J.~sj; mUk. S. Nothing but br~at milk. Ie, Z.A. And s"de-wader and Catnip t~a. They, ya know, they gen-rlly give 'em Catnip te". 'fhcy claim givin' it - 'a courso I rccken they still have tha hives - 'n y:a see, th",t C,!ltnip te,,-, it wuz fer tha hives. s. Z.A. A. For th" what? Hives. Ya kncwv, babios br"ak ClUt, ch" Im@w. Hand th~y claim. Is that regular Catnip like they give C".ts t" play with'! Z.A. N", it's growed. You'c'n grow hit in a gard"n. Catnip tea. An', ya know, you boil it. s. Dh-hum. Z.A. An' strain it 'n swe"t"n hit alittle 'n f8Nl it to> tem. s. Well, supp"se - y'''u me.n y"u c"uld use Catnip te,,- f"r anyb"dy who ha d hives? And that would get rid of it or just babies? Z.A. That wuz jest fer babies. S.' Wh"t aheJUt when they st. rted cutting teeth'! Did you give 'em anything to kind of ease the pain a little bit? Z.A. s. Vlell, nc>, they jest tab, Uh-hum. most f tha 'I " timblo 'n Vi 01' p00plo usta rub ther gums. - I've done mine th~.ta wa.y - s. Z.A. 'N th~t causes 'em til, cut th"r teeth. I never hea.rd of that. What, what .b,mt - You ~in't old. (Laughing) s. Let me s"", what ab<>ut, uh, what did, what did p"epl" do fer diarrhea b&ck th"n'! Did the)' - 2.A. \Vell, they get som" kind... herbs 'n give 'em, but, I'll swal1ee, I cain',t rememb"r jest whet hit is. S. W,,-s it, was th"r" any l{l\1}! <>f fruit <>r v'getable th,,-t they e euld Mt that ;l.l1d help? Z. A. I jest d<>n' t think - I recbm they did, but I' s jest studin' ",b"ut 'I;ha herb that they, ya Im"w, th"y'd give 'um, ya kn"w, t<> eheek th"r b"wels. 'N p,,"ple used ta, n"w, th"y v/uz some Idnda - but I fergEilt whet that wuz. Uh, hit groV/<ed, but yeu get hit, 'n ya knew, 'n strung it Uk" a bead. S. Uh-hum. 7..A. 'N !fIost 3.11 ehild"rn, they'd put hi+. "round th"r Mek, 'n they ,,\'i!~d s. II ",1<' ~\"J that it helped 'em cut thor - "'Mt >:tIl chil(k,rn 'til know, up and hit - but I forget whot hit wuz. ,. And why, and why did they wear it'! they got aboue, ya Z.A, They claimed they'd hep 'em cut ther teeth. aI' pe"pl~ uS0d ta sc.y. s. And y,m can I t remember - dt, y"u think - 2.A. Nnw, I cain't right nmv ta save my life. S. D" you think !Ill'. Ada.ms might now? 7..A. Huhshell. H.A. Huh? 7..A. D0 ya remelnber whet kind, whllt wuz tha n"me .. that stuff po"pIe ust.. strang 'n put ",n a b'lby's neck when the'd g@ ta cuttin' teeth 'n causin' 'em ta have 'is db.rrhea? H.A. Z.A. No. kn"w. P)i/\d" N", hie wh"dn' cern beads. Wuz, uh, seme kinds little we~d, ya 1\ Let's see. 7..A. But, I know. I' c strang lots uv 'em. 'N people used ta, fer 11..bies, would "., well, if they'd - wh..t wuz that bar tlw.t - hit \'lUZ a, yea know, hit had (pa.use). H.A. H.A. Z.A. H.A. Z.A. H.A. D. Sanrl Hoot? No, th~.t's n"t it. Ya kn"w, hit had yeller - blue' l' yeller b".lls em hit when hit g"t growed. e Bull Nittle. ~ Bull Ihttle. t: Th,rl,' s right, [lull NittIe. What's, what.' s the name Clf the stuff'! H.A. Bull Nittle. Ya know, thcw's dig it, they dig it, ya get thill r""ts uv it. A. It's like a bu rr? 12. 'l.A. Yeah, hit had ,~ little biddy rC1und ball em hit. An' th<'JY dig that r""t, cha knew, 'n eiv<'J 'em ta. - feed that ta" ya knew, childern fer cuttin' t"",th. S. That w"uld ease the p"in or help the teeth t .. grC1w? 'l.A. I jest d'DVln't kn..w. That's wh"t th3. "I" p,,"'ple usb, de. I wisht I cud think uv wh",t this wuz. I knC1w Mama s"id th~.t eme time one a hers I wen' t tell y". which Clne hit wuz - 's many uv 'em. We' s a,goin' till Lausville Camp Meetin'. ThQ,t' uz in September, 'n one uv 'em had it - I believe hit musta been Tom. {!'J'I.\ ':' D. Excuse me, Mrs. Ad",ms, Lausville Camp Meeting, is that what YElU said'? 'l.A. Uh-huh. An', uh, SEl, he had 'is, ya kn",w, diarrher ~,nd they didn' git ta g". 'n aunt, nc, it 'uz Gran'maw Hunt c"me ev'r 'ar. New whatever's this hyere name uv that stuff they g",t, cha know, 'n strRnged hit a,rO!lund ther neck - she went 'n g"t that 'n strung hit ar,mn' his neck. N,w/ I wOluldn' tell whether that cured 'ern 'r not, but He's better tha next day 'n M~ma went til. tha camp meeting. (Laughter) D. We're not milking any claims en this stuff new. (Laughter) Z..A. 'l.A. That's ~lden days. D. Well, if it worked, it's all rieht. Well, n,"'/ that - h:lt d,me it. She V'lB.~t til. tha eamp meetin I tha next day. S. Th'lt's a.ml\zing. 'l.A. But whl1lt that wuz, I fergl1lt. It wuz, uh, some Idnd uv a weed. Jesumrl1lw. 1'ha.t's what hit wuz. Jesumbr"w. S, JI;JSum.r@lw? Z.A. A. Yeah, 'n it smelled. lIttle, ya knrow, Jkest cut strang 'n tie 'em rl1lun' a That's incredible. You cud jest 'em in little k:ld's neck. smell it, 'n yem jest g:lt th,,pieees 'n jest strang 'em <lJn a S. Z.A. A. H.A. S. I wender if, I w>rlder if it I S just smelling it that dmes it. (Ll>ughter) I dmn't know. But that wh"t hit wuz. Maybe y"u .iust got well bee"use y,m e<!luldn' t stl>nd the smell. (Laughter) Y"u knew whet hit is, cl'm' eh,,-? H.A. Well, hit's j",st 'n "'I' green le"ldn', uh - Z.A. ,Jest a great biP;, 01" bush. H.A. Old bush, uh, glt little 0le leaves an up 'n d"wn it. An', uh, ya cut hit into - jest in little ole peices "bout that big (gesturing. Z.A. J est like a bead, ya lmew, kinda - H.A. 'N make hit le"k like a strang a beads. Z.A. Ta:ke ... needle 'n, ya 1m' w, 'n run it through hit. S. Uh-hum. Z.A. 'N jest strang hit "n it strang. But, n<!>W y,m gl> talkin' about that nlllw ...rl>und Ililts uv 'em-O I've g"t a daughter 'n uh, I'd say ;Rnythin' 'n she'd call me 'n I'll' f@gey. (Laughter) "0. Well, if they worked I'd call y"u an "ld hgey medicine we h~.ve t" buy. like YlU said they d", I, @r not.' It mmld be al"t (La.ughter) I d$n' t knew whether cheaper than the D. B..y, it sure would - tho way they ch",~.9'e fer medicine n<>YI. Z.A. Aaww - O{) H.A. Well, I'll tell y&. r'.ct, n''11, this hyere's tha truth jest's shir )'w:z. They worked, 1 1m tellin' ya, this is fact. D. Well, they didn't c ..st ;V(i)U anything to (',(1 <lut and, Yllu lmow, and y,m knew, pick these roots. H.A. Uh, that's been since me 'n hers' married. Hit 2.in l t been flver 20, 25 years ag". D. Z.A. s. Z.A. What I s that'l (te me) n"n't chc' want s"mpin l ta sit ,m? Ya 'ant <it cushi"n? This is finn. I get "ne right here yeu c' n have. My grandehildern set ,m it. A. She's a fl,,,~r sitter. H.A. One time, uh, my "ldest br.,ther, he's livin ' now, th" .,ldest uv us b"ys. He had a hunch a kids. An' uh, st" uh, h,~ jest c",mnonceel just g<idn' el"Yln hill - g"in' d"wn hill. An!!; uh, he got wh2.r he cuctn't work. An' the" uh fa.rm, ylJ. kn"w. wen, they y/Uz three ~ars right "n straight that we had ta make 'is tra.ck fer hirQ. H", g"t ta whar he cueln I t even bring w~'r til thll f:f~ed t~. us. Eventally, tho. l~.st f,?r he g<>t ta w)ui\r he cudn't brang wocter t,~ th.. neld t2. \Is t" drank, We m".de him three craps (cr0ps). Me 'n my daddy 'n my b\lther - 'Tl give it t" 'im. Vrell, seemed like th... h.st ;far 'uz tha w@rst" 'un ever, th~. third y,f<r. W"ll, my dady, me livin' that', whar I Ineved frrnm. H" 'Wined that, then. ,'rell, my daddy, he jest thought wen, uh, uh, that h"y's groin I ta thl\ docter Aver da.y. Well, uh, he got whar he cudn't brang w.,der tll tha field t<> us. My daddy, he did "v'r 'ar 'n he had 'em herbs 'uz 'at' whenever I b,mght tha place. wen, my daddy said he, he didn't wB.nt tha. whiskey. But, D. H.A. D. H.A. S. 1.1 I I /./ my da.ddy, weI he jest thought, well n8w, tha decters ain't doin' 'im n" g""d, n"w I'm g"n" , try ya a shet. Well, he Wlfit;)~ 'n dug :all these herbs 'n let 'um set a d,).y 'r tw" 'n t""k 'em down 'ar ta.. 'im. YR cud tear 'em "ff tha str0et then. Well, he 'gin ta drank 'em herbs ;}est.-like my daddy t"ld 'im t". Woll, he e,'mmeneed ta pickin' up. But, he's agittin' ".little f"tt"r, ya kl1f'w. wen, tha next :~ar he getta 1'r m:ide him ., g""d crap. W"ll, up 'til tha las'~ thrl'j0 yars, let(s sec, it's been five years age, 19.st SUfatUer' B I reckon it' uz that last crap he mllde. An' 1'11 tell ya., tha. last yar 'at, uh, he r"rmed, he c"uld pl,nY a mule ta death. ~ Really? 'l'h8..t' s right. And that, and that, uh, herb medicine did it? Yes, sir. What kind lr herbs went in it? B.A. Uh? (s. - l1hat kind lr hnrbs went in it?) H.A. s. H.A. D. H.A. Z.A. H.A. H.A. Z.A. H.A. Z.A. H.A. D. Well, it was Sasseriller, Burd"ck, Granny Gray Beard, Yell... R"",t, 'n jest one thang 'n "nother like thkl.t. What did you say .- Gr&y Bear'l Granny Gray Bea rd. Granny GrRy Beard? 'rh.~t' s right. See th:at tre}(~ ov I I' '<:J.r - Yeu nanna see 'at tree,'1 It' ya de we'11 jest let y'" go OV'1' 'Q,r t n let ya see it. I'll show it to y". In tha SpriJJlg. Yeah, but.. it 01)11103 in bloOlil - It comes _. 'n it h.\s tha purtiost, whitest bl~loll1s - if th~. COVIS .lin1t tore it dcwn, I - They ai.n' t tore it d<mn. That - hit - th~"t's tha pU1'tiest tree you over h.id yore eyes 1m. Hit h~,d white blooms @n it;. HDve yu ever, hllve you ever heard of, like a, people g<iJ:Ln' ta <hocters all tha time, an' n"t being able t" get Vlell "nd the') yeu Im"w, getting, H.A. D. S. S. H.A. S. H.A. D. uh, docte"ed with herbs and things like that and getting well. Yes, sir. Is that a fairly common thing? es sir. v \ihat about, I knOl", you know when sometimes people have, go alittle crazy or maybe go' out of their head for a couple of days, is there anything that you can give them that'll bring them around? I just don't know about that. '.Phat I s just a thought. \1ell, Huhshell' s sister, I don' knOl" what they done when she went crazy. They kep' her at home all tha time 'n she got better 'n lived. I don't know whot they give 'er. She lived ta be 'n 01' woman. Do you know? Yes, Bir. What did, what did they give her? vlell, uh, my daddy, commenced ~Iith Jest one herb, 'n if that didn' work I he'd commence with anuther'ul1. vlell, it's jest like, uh - Just one thing and, 0" anothe". H.A. Jest as fer's uh, one thang knowin t. or anuther. He knew a thousand things more 'n I do, He, he "IUZ "n, herb docter - straight herb docter. \'Iell, ~. S. Did he docte" people in the tmll1 or, uh, around where you lived? H.A. Anybody 'at wanted it, he doctered. vlell, uh, he commenced with one thang an' if that didn' do no good, he (commenced on anuthe,,'n. \'/ell, if that'n d:ldn' do no good, he'd commence on anuthe,,'n. 'N he'd find tha thang that wud start 'im out, 'n that's half a what, what, how he finished tern out. They used ta give an herb fo" nerves, ya know, nerves. I don't know, you could find hit in tha \"oods, but I don't know. A. S. !l.A. What would it do? Calm your nerves dmm? Do you know what that was? Uh, Was it Golden Slippe,,? D. H.A. YHah, Golden Slipper 'uz one of 'urn. \vell, what I'lould it; do to you? It 'ud jest quieten yer nerves. Yer nerves. Just like ya take ya a nerve medicine '1' tablet. A. How do you, uh, how do you prepare it? Do you boil it and then drink it? Z.A. H.A. A. D. A. II.A A. II.A. D. H.A. (S. " D. ,\ ,.j: "7' H.A. "I I)'~ 0 -+ A. H.A. S. H.A. You boi:l. it and drink hit. You make it jest like you \1ud coffee. Yeah, or tea. ,Iell, yeah, well, uh, he \1aS that I'li1y, 'n anybody 'at had heart trouble, ya know, you can gen'rally tell, ya know, if they hurt in here, (gHsturing) ya might kn0\1 hit wuz ther heart. A course, you wern't no special docter. But, uh, thar's a Heart Leaf, an' they go. t git that cha know, 'n, uh, use tha Heart Leaf for yore yeart. ' What would it do? Make it pump stronger? \vas it called Heart Leaf? Huh? Did you call it Heart Leaf? Ileart Leaf, yeah. 'lhy thar' s plenny uv it up yonder in them Jew Camps up 'ar, jes't - Do they? Lord, yeah. Is it, is it on a tree or is it - YOU'll have ta point it out - It's, it'sa, it'sa - it grows up in tha ground, but hit comes up in leaves. 'N, uh, hits jHst tha picturH of yer heart, uva heart. Now, that's tha way hit is, see. Oh. Oh, yeah. Now, if yer out in tha woods, 'n ya see a green - I've seen that, I Imow what you're talking about. Well, that's whot it's fer. 17 Z.A. Now, ya take anybody \1ho learnt, knowed herbs, ya 1mml, 'n all, 'n they 1mo\1 all about hit. But, I jest don't. A. Z.A. Now, is this Golden Slipper Yep, it shor does. is that, did that grOlq out of the ground? D. ,Iell, what else did they use for, for like calming your nerves and, you know, making people quiet if they were, you know, uh, real tense and things, besides that, uh, Golden Slipper? H.A. Well, uh, thar's - They's a, a - ( Z.A. Well, thar's anuthah -) Z.A. Herb that you got ~uz like a button, but I cain't remember whot tha name 'a hit ~IUZ. H.A. A. 'N ya take, uh, Button-Snake Root, now, 'n trouble, well, hit jest looks like a grub worm. come ouda tha ground, ain't cha? Yeah. uh, if ya have stomach I giss ya all se'ed 'em S. D. S. H.A. A. H.A. A. S. Now, 'at's a, uh, what hit looks like. Ya dug ouda tha ground frum unda ground jest about that deep (gesturing). \'/ell, hit's jest ahout that long (gesturing again), 'N I giss ya all se'ed 'em. Well, ya dig 'at, 'n ya take 'n heat hit up, 'n ya git hot woder, jest likl'1. you gona make coffee. Ya put hit in that 'n let hit set, ya know, 'til it git that strenth (strength) ouda that, 'n drank it. 'N that wuz, uh, fer stomach trouble. Hum, what ahout if somehody had trouble sleeping - was there any. ; " kind of thing they could take to make them sleep hetter? Yeah, they make 'um sleep hetter. That, that, Button-Snake Hoot? Yeah, yeah. Anything else? Any other kind of herhs that "ould make you sleep hesides - Well, they sell differnt kinds, but I jest cain't tell ye, what, no I hetcha if my daddy's back hyere he could set 'n talk ten weeks ~tith ye, tell ye all - I hetcha he could. Yeah He Ime" all that stuff. And did, did, did he, uh, grow the herbs or did he just go around J~ to the woods and find thom? !I.A. Hell, he growed part uv hit 'n part uv hit he'd go to Ula mountains 'n find. Thar's jest certain places in tha mountains ya'c'n find hit. Hit's got ta be a certain kinne. ground, ya know, ta grows in. Yeah. A PDF transcript exists for this collection. Please contact an archivist for access. Professor John Burrison founded the Atlanta Folklore Archive Project in 1967 at Georgia State University. He trained undergraduates and graduate students enrolled in his folklore curriculum to conduct oral history interviews. Students interviewed men, women, and children of various demographics in Georgia and across the southeast on crafts, storytelling, music, religion, rural life, and traditions. As archivists, we acknowledge our role as stewards of information, which places us inaposition to choose how individuals and organizations are represented and described in our archives. We are not neutral, andbias isreflected in our descriptions, whichmay not convey the racist or offensive aspects of collection materialsaccurately.Archivists make mistakes and might use poor judgment.We often re-use language used by the former owners and creators, which provides context but also includes bias and prejudices of the time it was created.Additionally,our work to use reparative languagewhereLibrary of Congress subject termsareinaccurate and obsolete isongoing. Kenan Research Center welcomes feedback and questions regarding our archival descriptions. If you encounter harmful, offensive, or insensitive terminology or description please let us know by emailingreference@atlantahistorycenter.com. Your comments are essential to our work to create inclusive and thoughtful description.