Carole Smith interview with Mittie Bell Williams, George Clinton Smith, Willa Mae Smith, and Estelle Fair (part one)

The John Burrison Georgia Folklore Archive recordings contains unedited versions of all interviews. Some material may contain descriptions of violence, offensive language, or negative stereotypes reflecting the culture or language of a particular period or place. There are instances of racist language and description, particularly in regards to African Americans. These items are presented as part of the historical record. This project is a repository for the stories, accounts, and memories of those who chose to share their experiences for educational purposes. The viewpoints expressed in this project do not necessarily represent the viewpoints of the Atlanta History Center or any of its officers, agents, employees, or volunteers. The Atlanta History Center makes no warranty as to the accuracy or completeness of any information contained in the interviews and expressly disclaims any liability therefore. If you believe you are the copyright holder of any of the content published in this collection and do not want it publicly available, please contact the Kenan Research Center at the Atlanta History Center at 404-814-4040 or reference@atlantahistorycenter.com. This is the first of a two part interview in which Carol Smith interviews Mittie Bell Williams, George Clinton Smith, Willa Mae Smith, and Estelle Fair. The interview starts with Williams giving a brief biography of her life, then at 1:48, she tells a story about her fathers friend, Joe Almond, who fell in love with a much older, married woman who cursed his mother. Williams father, who was very superstitious, warned her to not pursue someone improper lest they get conjured as well. At 4:22, Williams retells a humorous story about two bank robbers, one of which pretended to be a preacher so he could steal the tithes. At 7:30, she speaks of her fathers experience sitting by a cooling board, a perforated wooden platform on which a dead body was temporarily stored and prepared before a funeral. He claimed that the dead man came back to life and scared everyone away. Next at 11:23, Williams describes some of her fathers homeopathic cures and emphasizes how he disciplined his children. Next, at 22:13, Williams sings a call-and-response game that her father sang during his childhood, See Aunt Dinah, Im Goin Away to See Aunt Dinah. She also sings and a church song from her childhood. Mittie Bell Williams (1928-2019) was born in Roanoke, Alabama, to Reverend Gus Almon (1868-1961), who owned the land that his father, a freed slave, had worked on. She attended college in Alabama and worked in family and children services in Georgia. With her husband, Charlie Lee Williams, (1920-2008), she had three sons, Stanley Rodney Williams (1952-2008), Eric Bruce Williams (1956- ), and Charles Michael Williams (1960- ). She died in Macon, Georgia. George Clinton Smith (1882-1970) was born in Johnson, Georgia, to John Wesley Smith (1852-1932) and Mattie Smith (1859-1947). He had six siblings. with his first wife, Ophelia Foster Smith (1877-1961), he had five children: Albert M. Smith (1907-1985), Carlyon J. Smith (1909-1966), George R. Smith (1911-1996), John L. Smith (1912-2002), and W. W. Green . Smith fought in World War I, and married his second wife, Willa Mae Ward (1891-1976), in 1962. He died in Adrian, Georgia. Estelle Fair (1909-1978) was born in Buckhead, Georgia. She had a sister, Argin Peoples (1901-1988), and a brother, Elias L. Barnes (1903-1973). With her first husband, Broma L. Johnson (1909-?), she had a son named Broma L. Johnson Jr.. She died in Macon, Georgia. 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A I T'I '=' \ "- MCA-('.:D VI I GI\ >--\-5-\,C); ~)}t i'\\0 \r,v~ X'(.') v\'\~/ \ '(' V'(\,\,):5) \ e':'..:, 4 Oarole Smith !"plk.;500 5: 15 Mittie Bell Williams 3378 Elmtree Drive Atlanta, Georgia, SoW. Mittie Boll ililliilms is a middle- ag;ed Negro I'lOman, She gave her age as Ira, but from comments that I'lere made durJ.ng the i.nterviel'l it appears that she is older. She I'/BS born in a small tOl'In neBr Hoanoke, Alabama, Her father ol'med tho lend that he farmed. Her grandfather I'/BS B freed slave I'lhose former mflster had I';i.ven him somo Iflnd to farm. She attended a sm8.11 collogo in Ala),amfl. She is now employod by the Geol'[(ia Family and Children Services. Her husband is 8. service station 1 attendant. She has three sons, all of ,;hom live at home. "My name is Mittie Boll Williams, I'm forty yeers old. I waa born in Hoanoke, Alabanlfl. I I'IaS reared by a fB.ther. My mother passed at birth and my fat.her tflught. us many things, somo that I be1:Levod in and some thst I didn't. But some thinl';s that ho taught 11"". I "Iould like to pass on to you. ThIs story that he ."1':'~ tolo us about, espeoIally the boys, \'lhen they would go out dating he I'lOuld t.ell them t.his lit.t.le story about a fdend of his. 'rhIs friend I'IRS namod Joe Almond; hOl'levor, my father pHssed six years ego at. the Hir,e of 93 and he all-mys said his fdend Joe all-mys liked to ea.t and ho loved cake and he went te visit. a friend of his ene do.y and she baked him a cake. No\'! this friend wafl much older thr\D J"oo, she \'las mnrr'iod. I10r husband '8 nllme Sam, So Joe start Gsting; the cake OVGr to thi" lady' a house that \'las married to Bom and he rell in 10VG 'ilith t.hIs lHdy and this lady took him in the house lInd kept him Hnd SHm lInd she "laS a "!ife to both of t.hem. Joe hfJd a mot.her that "ms nlImed Mrs, Amy Almond, and nOH at this time my father called uh Mrs. Amy Almond 'Aunt Amy' lInd he said Aunt Amy got real anp;ry fwd Hent over to this 18dy's house and began to curse hel' out and get aft.er her for gett.ing her son into this position or condition. So this lady told Aunt Amy Almond-l If you don It lee,vo horo I'm gonna fix you that you \'/on' t be able to enjoy yo 1J.fe anymo! But Aunt Amy didn't pay hel' ,wy a ttontion und she kept Going over thcwe and after aHhile this lady put a spell or done somethin to Aunt Amy head and somethin just movo the top of Aunt Amy's hair all her hair offa her head. My father 'said just somethin just begsn eating her hair and, slipped it off and left her head bald, just 'as clean [J,S your hand, and Aunt Amy lived some 35 years after that and not a strand of h8.ir ever came back on her hend, nnd my f8ther really believes in conjuring, and he ,",ould tell my brothers that:don't go off enting that you \'Iould get conjured junt like ,Joe Almond did." "Let me tell you t.hIn st.ory my father ust to tell us about the preachers. There "In s h,o fl'iends that ",ent out one day and dec1ded thoy 'dould rob a store. 'l'heyfd be makIng thc1r livin robbing stol'es and litUe country maIl boxes in this rural country, and so they \'Iere caught thIs time and sent to prison und thoy stayed in prIson'bout five yenrs ,und ",hen they came from prJ. son they I'taS released top;other. 1'hey eDemo home to the 1 i del Ie country tOl'm and they decided: ;,hat ure you gonna do for a living? one askod the other, One said 'I don't knOl'I, but let's don't stay togother. If \'10 stay together \'Ie might 2 uh start robb:in'lag;in. 'fhat's the only thing tho.t I'lo've over done.' And one sald '\iell, you go on the other side of' tOl'm and I'll stay on dis sido of' to\'ln.' So one of' em \'lent on the other side of' tOl'm and the other one stayed on dis side of' tOlm. About ueven mohths Inter, the one 'thot stayed on the.oRst sido of' to\'In picked up tho papor. In rellding the paper he noticed that this ole prison buddy of' his ,oms [sonne. pree.ch at e. church that night on the.t side of' to\'ln. He se.id 'This is my', prison buddy, I knOl'l it. 'I'hnt's his name~ ,And he limt to this church e.t the hour the.t this preacher \'las [sonne. preach, hi.s prison buddy, and just n" he got in the church, this buddy of' his had got up to te.ke his text and st" rt preachi.n anrhis f'riend, this other .prison budd). \'lent right dOlm to the f'ront and sat dOlm and looked rip;ht at his eell mate start preachinp;. So this preacher thot \'las his prison buddy looked and recognized him. He so.id 'NoV! ladies ,md gentlemen, [P;~ the text I have taken previlos( 1) I'm not ;oin' to use it .. God jus sont me somethin clse and I'm gonne. chsnge my subjoct. Instcad of' talking e. "bout I'lhat I jus said I'm [';oing to use f'orAsubject \l<If' thou rocogni7,Q me hold thou pea,ce. I'll see thoo Inter In other \'Iox'do he \'I9.S tell ing this ole prison buddy of' his that ho "as not a prcacher, but thas the lay he I'TaS making his livin and if he recognizo him not to say a ,"ord the.t he l'iOuld .. give him some of' the money I'lhen the service I'ras over~ IN1.'mWlIi:iIf<:R: O. K., nOl'I vlh" t "bout the one 8. bout the man in the co"ket I'lhen thoy \,/01'0 having the setting up? "Uh that I'IOS a story my f'athor of'ten '-Iould tell US~bout hoints and ghosts, and he believe in this and \'loll, this I beliovo las true bocnuse "Ihen my f'ather uh came aleng they didn't have undertakers in that p"rt of' the country. Vlhen you died, they I'louid ,jus t.s.ke you and put you out on a coolin board, they \'Iould call it. 80metimes they ,!ould put solt, table selt in a lil saucer and put that over your stomik to keep your stomik of the oocasion "Ihen one of the from swelling. Vloll, this \'lo.S one l'l,,,'gh bDl",1 nabors in tho cowmunity had died, and they had)""'s all setting up at the rel'Jt.ives house. 'l'hey I!ould call that 0 settin['; up. They "Iould go thcre and stay all night and this man \'las back there in the casket that had been mnde by nei[';hbors. They vlould make .n vloodentmsket, and' J,n the hight about iui..dnight this. reUO\'I clh :in the easJmt that they thought. we.s dead put one hand hilLh up out of the casket and my father said, he \'fas there, and said people began to look and look and just about that time this fella raise up out of the casket and said, "ilhere am I? '; and every- ~ owY\~fi..MI 0]1 ...,.' t.t' ~ body ran off and lef him-~nd my father said he never '!Jj go back, and he teDs today thHt he didn It knovi vlh"t happened because everybody left him. And hc believed in [';hosts. Of course that could have been true because so !~y times he told us stories 8 bout people that VIIlS put .... they thou[';ht \'IfIS dead but they just didn't have an undertaker and those people come be.ek, flo that cou ld have uh meanin[';)"hat he said. It could be true"l II I l'lould like to tell yell this story and I'm e;oinc: to brin['; uh my life into it"I so. I be lieved thi s for for a vlhil e and I \'fanted to. try it, Nov! they said, my fa the)' used to say back years ago if yeu "a" born "Iith aemay ami you "Iould go out in the :woodll and mark e. tree up a certain hei.[';ht about hlo feat Ilnd when the child that had asmay \'fould [';rovi to above that) hlo feet above tha.t mark that. the asmay vlOllld go al'lay and every year that person IIB.S supposed to [';0 out and mark the tree, and I'/hen the child p;ot above the mark that I'IOS first nmrk there he 1-IOlAld be otltgrol'ling the aCillay 0. he I'ms outgrol'l the murk, No\'! that I didn't bolieve, but I hod a son, have a son, at loast, that had asmay in his early years and once I started to try that, I couldn't get anyth:lng else to curo it. So I said, '\'1011, let me try this marking this tree.' NOI'I it sounds corny and I didn't beliove in it. ~ lot of those things my father told me back 5 thoro, and he enjoyed tolling us stories. \'10 didn't have a mother, so '-10 I'IB.S sottin around e. fireside at night and ho "Iould jus tell stories, Ho couldn't rcadrlDd for that reason he I'lould tell stories, bout the things that '-/3." in his past or things tho.t he had met dOlm through t.he years, so he I-Iould tell us storieB about different sielcness, hO"l you could cure ill and also there ';las a sickness he once tole us that you could uh) if you was siek 1'Iith tho sore throat and if you \'lanted to be cured you could put a soucer of just pure la1-d over the door and as that lard melted and pasfled away,you let it stay there a long time ,and ho flaid nOI'1 you would never have a sore throat anymore, r.l oouldn't seo hOI-I this I-/Quld bo truo, but rCB.lly he be-liev-ed these things, You couldn't mo.ko him think no different. So I.o ,some of tho things come to pans seemly and some or em would not, but he did havo a lot of ~doas about t.hings you could do to cure your sickness I'/ithout talcing medicine. Ho thought it could jus bo curorl on vnrious old legend that you \'Iould try," IN'l'I~HVIKl!m:':lhRt. nbout " sm'ke bi t.o? Do )'OU romember anything about. I'/ha t you \'1oul d do for that? 6 " vie 11 , he' ve all-mys said uh back there that and a lot of them do '-Iould tuke a the/t\lled big ~ thore did uh have come in contact I'd.th snakes, but he said the thing they (IN',x piece of fat, real fat meat, You lenNI back A hogs and they I'lould use the fO.t meat from u \'Iould hog und out,., if you tlare presant u t the time a person got bit. by a snake, you '-Iould out. in t.e thf place and t.ry to head t.he poiaon from get.ting to the veins of the person body and then put. a 17rellt ' , /t<JJ ~ w-~ t".k... VfW~~'}'.'t I.7~ big picce of fat. meat. in there and that fat meat",./ould turn r;rean fv""" r and thinga like that, Of ceurse, r guess ne\'l you "Iouldn':\' trust that because yeu \'Iouldn't beli.eve it, but he said t.hat really did happen on H lot of oocH.siens. II IN'.mRVIglil@:\~a8 thore anything sped"-l you did for tha ear"-che? !' vle11 , my father used to , and everything that \'Ie hove nOI'I) some of my sisters and brothers had it then, and my father had a <lure for all of em. Glad you ask me t.hin!';s like that because he had a cure for nearly everything, 1'01' the earache he \'Iould all-mys uh tako, I'lell he \'Iould take aU just co.st.or oil and that's '-Ihat he '-Ieuld all-mys give us to take for our COld, p.lain castor oil. He \'Iould tA ke it. and ,-num it. and pou r it. in your ear and run I] y, it C8. sed i.t somm-18y, I guess it . ,the he"t of the oil. probably had to "ith it., but it l1.1i'lays eased my oars if t}!C castor oil, you kno\'l, poured in thero. The, t' s the ,-IllY he I'lOuId doctor on it. Thore \'las not a doetor around. I t.hink the nee rest dootor \'IllS about 110 mi lec., so my father Hould do a lot. of' uh t.hings like that hi.msdf, Ho clOuld jus take charge nnd he cO-lled it home romedy,. So 1.. I thi.nlc they \'forked some time. 1I INTB:RVIEvIF:H :Ho!'1 a bout the chi cken pox'! Did you do anything special for thot7 "Oh, the only thing hC\'IOUld do for' chicken POP8 \",s just keep Us inside and he would . yHs, he (Ud. He would get some of this axel grease off of t,h0 v/D,gon, You knol'! when they would run tho \'lagon they ,-[ould take ~ t:rcano, axel grease, and put on the ~'lHgon ':,hero the Hheel t.urn and tl1Pt 'IIould get rec 1 black, and my father would get that axel [,;r'oHf.Je 8.nd pu.t. it. on tho chicken pops bumps, and then he said that \/ould keop em from spronding; or keep em f'l'om becomin infected. t'lo everything you can name my f'a.thor had a remody foX' it. II liMy father also had another l'C1l!ody f'or tho ou'/-J.che. If your oar was soro enough he would take your urine DYld pour it down yoUY' oar, and htl 'dun sure this \'lould work. You knO\-! he had severn) th1ngs th8t ho thought. vloro, could ho]p it, but 01' n) J ho thought thi" \'lew just. the thin!,:, Of courrJO, at. gnother al';o :I: thought. anythIng my ruther SHid ':!an uh correct. Bu.t I lenni-! he usi". to tEl.ko lny brothoY'f:> and my S:lstOl'S urine 'dhen thcj}~ ear ",rH, B.chin and pour i.i:, in thore and he said this i'!flfl good for it. 80 I .... 11 :l:ri'j')<;HVIJo;vn:H:No\'1 v!hn.t \./0,; that about putting the horseshoe over the door7 "Well, no", my father have !l strongM" believer of o'ood luck Dnd i'l8.S bad luck. He ho.d n horsoshoe ovor our door tha.t/I thoro "rhen I \-/1111 (JLlite a child, and it 'Ia", he kept thet horseshoo there unt.il he 7 pasGod years and years, 110 siid that horsoshoe would bring good 8 luck, NOI" looking back over life I can't see 1,[here hit done anything fo'r anybody, but he believed in that and also he boUevorl that uh if a mn.n,if a lady would come into hin house on Monday morning tho first one to oome, you "[QuId fertainJ.i!J hnve bad luck th"t VlCek, Certl<inly on l'fel" Years, the first day of the year, he 1',ould go out and find n man that "[QuId como to his house first, He said it WDS bad luck to let a lady come in on New YeaY's' s Day. Anrl so, ... " INTE:HVIE!'/EH:Dirln't you e" t something spocial on Now Yoar' s Day? "V/ell, eve,'y Nm" Year's Day he \'IOuld get a heRd of the hog, they call tho hog jowl, anrl blaok-eyed poas, He said this was good luok, anrl I have !cept tho.t tn"lition \)\p all mrr 1ife, I do that no", myself, It's nothing to it ronlly, I don't believe, but that's what he said and he .. he jus' believed in it. ,TuGt like 0. friend of ours dOlm in our hometo'o'fn. BOiS not cra7.y, but he believes that he's e. cnr. 80 he goes up end do"m tho street and holds his hands to his faoo and just in front of his faoe and be windin jus like he'o Hindin ,\ I'[heel, going right dOlm tho street lllD.king noiso jllfJt like a Oar Hi th hi.s 1U0uth--too-too-too-too- anrl ,,hen he'd got to the light he I',olll d stl3.nd ri.ght there ",hile tho rerl light was on--too ga loogaloogalooand I,hen the l:ight turnod r:reon, he ,',ould changc gcaTs \'lith his mouth--tooga the way down loogtlloo--un un-hm hm hm--and the~et in our li.ttle~n, ho ",auld do that all His name WEtS Punch, and I knoCl people used to be comin through from Nel" York, ll\8.ldng trips through that Ii tUe place and they ,"ould just go sloVily behind Punch, just to seo him change gears, He V10uld go dO':lm the stroot-- tooga loogaloo--and ",hen" he'd get to the 1l1,:ht, as I said before, he'd stand there \'lith the cars, the curs be on one side and he on the other, Vlhen the co.rs move off he'd chanr;e gears--un un-- and movo off \'lith tho cars--tooga loogeloo-- end he ,,/ould jus keep this up "'elkin baclmrds and fonlO.rds from light to light, I kno\'l he) every year At school he say, 'V/ell, I'm graduratin this yem', COOlin out this year!' [~very class como out., hi s class been comin out. the last 25 years, Punch been COOlin out., H? hadn't. g;raduro.ted yet, But he just think he's a cur, and some poople jus think tho.t luck and ",hat t.hey fire" tho. t t.hey' re really \,ha t BJmy LhiJi] they think they a.re ,':0 1. ,I don't knO\" "hat ;,e can think a~ it but I have my doubts," liMy father was a father and a mother- to us. He tms quite some age '.'Then he first married my mother, and arter she passed he jus ~ took the role of' a rather and mother, We \'I8.S very di.sciplinerl, I h kno'l he used to didn't a11<11' us to come around \'Ihen company \'lOa thoro, and he didn't allor us to oat \'Ihen company \",s thel'e, Vie had t.o wdt til the company eot thrQugh on ting;, Anything that \'IOS lef't \"0 \'Iould got it,and ho \'Iouldn't allor us if' ho said'shut up', he meant shut up, and vIC ,..ould shut up, I don't care \-,hol'o we "lIlS 9 standin or t'lhnt i-faS happening. I romember one day gain dOlm the dirt road, I had a \-18 i'lero all in tho wD.1!,on "w~' brother around 18 or 20 A months old and uh my daddy \'las drivine \lith tho six or soven us on the wagon, und \'10 \11lS hangin our leg's off 'hhe Hagon, and \'Ie went over /1 sand pile and my baby brothar fell of'f tho \'lagon into the sllnd pile, 20 months old, he could "mlk, And I said, /Papa! He said, 10 'Shut up! So I shut up cause I knGl'/ I ho.d ta shut up if' he said that. And VIe \Hmt on about hlO mi les and my f'athel' looked back and said, 'Where's ,Jones?' I say, 'He f'ell of'f' bl1ck there about tVlO miles bflcld lIe s/lid ";Ihy you didn't tell me?' I said 'I tried to tell you and you tole me to shut up,' And he vms jus upset o.nd ran bock and turned the mules around and started back, I'lell, I think he was ,jus r . cl too tight at that time and I \'las afraid to soy anymore, So they ','las really tip;ht on you but sometime ..... 11 "1'he fun \'10 used to really get from my fother ,/hen he \'/ould tell us about thc games he used to play \'Ihen he VIas a boy, No\'l if he \'las living today, he \/ould be 11 hundred years old, He said they would playa game that they call 'See Aunt Dinah, I'm Gain A\'Iay '1'0 See Aunt Dil1flh', He say all the kids \'Iould get in H circle. He \/ould have us in a circle, One \/ould be in the middle skipping around choosing partnahs, And t.he game., the song)litUe game \'Iould go like t.his: Oh, I'm goin aVlay t.o see Aunt Dinah, Way, ''lay, \"ay t.o see my Lord. And the leader \'Iould say: I'm gain I1I'lI1y (t.hey say) to see Aunt. Dinah, I'lay, '""y, \'lay to see my Lord, And t.he leader in the middle Vlould say t.he verse and t.he verse \'IllS: Some folks say a preacher \<lOn't steal, And the remainder of t.he group ,/ould say: See Aunt Dinnh. I Gf:J.ught thi~00 in my eornfield. See lily IJord. Say: Ono hn.d a bnshel, the othor'n had o peck, See Aunt Dinah. h lrhe other I n had a ronslD 0<:',1'( rOHsting ear of corn) round his neck. ~ tpo seo my LJord. Oh, I'm p;oin aViay to neo Aunt Di.nnh, \'lay, way, \'H1Y to see my Lord. ,As I \'las crossin a :Corty acre field, Se r. A.unt Dinn.h. A r"ttlesn"ke bit 100 on my heel, Seo my Lord. I turn araun to do my best to See Aunt Dinah. vi My left foot slipped in a honet'" nest. 2e.z /If d'~' Oh, I'm goin ml8.Y to see Aunt Dim,h, A~'lUy, \'lay, \'HJ.y to see my Lord. NO\'I that. Vlila his 1i1 fflvorit.o p;ame he sflid tboy played p,round 135 or 116 years ap;o." "ilo h"d a little count.ry church not t.oo far from OUl' house and \10 '"culd go thero overy Sunday, and once n year "18 Hould have 'Children DB.y' to exel'eiGO a J:itUe talont, IlYld \'10 had to make up our songs and things t.hat. Vie Vlould sinp;. We didn't hava any books or publi_cstion that we could sing OlAt of, so J shall never forget on one Sunday morning Chn__rlie Z,ncha:('y and 8D.m Nesby, they ti~~_ \'13.8 t,eenarl;e hays !3.t thlJ.~, :'Jnd they '.'lore r:onna s:i.n~~ ~:l,_!~~ flong ---- ---- .. -- - -,.....---- t.ogot.hor. Thoy cal ] i.t. "fduet. Vie IB.ug;hed GO much t.hat Sunday til VlO got \!hippings ""hen we got homo and 1 1m sure the other children did, too, . Cause your parents didn't a11O\'I you t.o laLl[~h at anybody :if I) f10ng didn't work out. So they \,le;re ningjn n 11 song like this and I thought it vias so funny, They HS.S sin[';in: This herels B mean world to live in, You [';ot to stay here tD you dio, This herels a moan world to live in, You got to stay hore unt.D you die, \'Ii t.hout a mother, ,tit.hout a fa t.hor, Wi thout D. 81 s t,er., not evan fl. brother. ffhis horo I s a mcnn \'10rld to live in, You [';ot. t.o st.ay here unt.il you die, You got. t.o get. on your knees t.o stay he,'", You'vo got. to st.ay horo unt.il you dio, YoU'YO got t.o moan somot.imo t.o st.ay horo, You'vo got. t.o st.ay horo until you die, You' Yo [';ot. t.o ery sOlllet.imo to stay hero, You I ve g;ot. t.o stay horo unt.il you die. This hArols n mean world to live in, YOU've got. to live horo u.nt.il you die, And He all laug;hod so much at. t.hose hoys until t.hoy almost had to stop singinl ll 12 G~eocge 01 inton Sud th 1648 Jeffersonville Rd. Maoon, Ga. Tfl f' [ ;:fie :2. 3?tJ 13 My grandfather, Mr. Sm:l.th, 1,>ms born in Johnson County, Georgia, near what is nm'! Adrian, His father wa~; a farmer in this area, M.r. Smith had five brothers nnd one si :,:;ter. ~1rs. E81.",011e Flair 1688 Jeffersonville Rd. Macon, G,q" Mrs. Il'air "ms born in Atla.nta around the Bu.ckhead area. Her father was 8 guard on the Buckhead ehB-in gang. She sHiel he \'las one of the lileD f:u3fligned t.o hs.ng the maD Vlho raped ~'~ary Fagan. She remembers the inci,dent. TN'l'IEHVn;';llo:R:O.I<., nm-I Grandaddy l'lhat \"/HS that story about the hull? (Laughter) MY', f3mi th:"In the Oi vi 1 1/:0.1' they \'/HS a man uh '1M in service that they ce.lled Gordon's bull Bnd uh \"Ihen they'd get in H. tight battle uh he'd bell ee D.nd uh the"", enemy \"Iollld run, and uh they) it seemed the enemy didn't knovl \"that it ViaS, and uh he'd llh in a tight place \/hy they'd uil) th:i. fello thot ah \"to'"Jd beller and the Southerners would win the uh fight. At one time he uh asked his conrmunder to lot him vh swim the river B.nd vh r;et the uh Yankees to \"/here they wOll1dn 1t invite the \lh Southerners over to S\ll'ronder, and he r;o~ n hickory stick wnd put in his clothes and uh 1:1ent over and uh and uh beut threo loen down and uh got in tho rivev and swum back anel u.h 1'10) they VIDS all fl..... laug;hln ahout h'hat l.lh Gordon's buJJ hn.d done, Dnd ho 8ez, Ilh they)rd.s enomy ... his friends said uh, 'Vlhy don't you holler one time'?' Soz you, '1'hat ' ll take that t.ei I,]n t.he the f']E;hq and uh he beIIercd Bnd uh and uh they a] 1 e",:;MY h8.d a big; lafl' and uh I,hen he bEllI.ered the~that Ims standln 8. Iookln across the rIver uh hId In the bushes," Mr. Sm:l th: "rt.y mother nevel~ dld buy uh anythin[': for croup, cough, and cold, She dl'lays used uh .. honey, nbout one pad. of honey, and hlO parts of "hiskey, mixed It t.ogethel and uh dve it to us chi J Jern for uh croup or uh cough, And Vie a11 seemed to live and live throup;h it all and do 1'1011 ... " Hrs,Smj.th~Never did have a doctor," Mr.Sml.th:"Neve} did hAve a doctor atall. ':!hon '..te had uh f:wnw trouble uh why uh Vie used home remedies. 1I Mrs.Fair: Il WMen we ~vas small children our mother when NO got n cut or a scratch , she always used sut (soot) out. of the chimney to st.op the b1 eedin, And I" she taug;ht us to use ci.gar .88hes to brush our teeth \'lith because her mother and father burnt tobaeoer on the .tove in B fry pan Bnd used the B.ho~, and our teeth is" my gront grandaddy i'HIS 92 s.nd my great grGndmother i'ms 91, Hnd they never had lo.t a tooth, And I'll soon be 61, Bnd I've never lost btitttIO. 1t " And uh they ust to burn lIddIe snusr' pieces of cloth to put on babies nnbles Bnd use 8 belly band and thAt cured their nobles up. rehey nevel" did une no kind of medicine. They alNoyn usod t.he.ir O\'m home remedios. And thatls the \'1ay '.'Ie lived in during our 1. i fethrlO . II "And my mother I'lould never s\'Ieep no tro 8h nor not-hln out the door~fter dark because she had a Buperstitious that j.t would cause R deoth in the family. And on [~e", Your,l s Day when anyhody came to our house 8he would ahmys knock and QfJk who it \\!Pc8, Hnd 1.1 it wuz a \'loma.n sho \'1ouldn 1 t let em ln, but if' it 'tlU2'. a ll1an she \'lQuld because she said that "'ould Cfl.USO D.. denth :in the fHm:ily, too. ~)o she really had a superstitIous in herself." IN'l'ERVIJ.i:vIER :DI d you beliove t.ha t.? Mrs. F'aLc:uNo, I didn't, believe it , but she ahm.ys did. 1I IN'l'EHVIEvIU:R:NoVl, Grandaddy, \'Iould yOll tell me about Uncle Lester getting bitt.on by the snako'! f.1r.Smith:"Hc \'las out. uh playing and uh uh uh a rat,.blesnake t,/as coiled up and uh he got. his foot close t.o im, and ho bit. him, and uh uh he como runni n to t.ho housf) and Papa t.akened uh takened his knife and cut" hunk out of)at. the ple.ce I'lhere the \'Iound I'IDS, and I uh kllled a chicken and uh Just as quick as uh nf'; uh ~'le could get a hunk of t.hat chicken out I'le cut :l t out, cut a hunk ~..Jt' of the chickon and put it on the uh the \-/ound, Hnd in f:Lve . throe to five minutes it \'m8 just as green 3.8 r;rass from the poison drmm out. of t.he/whore the snako bit., and it didn't. hurt. him, it. didn't. affect him but. a very liddle bit. He Vlent ahead and uh seomed to ';lunna 1lve right on, It IWl'EnVIEl'mn:O.I<'Now I'lhat did you do for a snoke bite? Do you remember anything 81Jooia17 l..lrs,P'air: tl No. I neve}' \'far: .... (Oould not understand).l nevor was b1.t by n snoke. '1 <t- "But \'lhen {'!O Hst to have ~ 0arncho our mother 'rlOu]d get the aBhos out of the firoplace and put em in fln ole sock ::lYld sprinkle water over ern '.'/here the steam would oame up and she I d melee us lay our head on t.he 8.shes and that stofpnd our earaches. II IN'I'EHVlm'fIlH:Dld she do any thin,,, spod',I fo!' the mumps? I've heal'd about peopIe ma,king poJt.ices out of different things, ~'irs. 11'a:i.:I" :lI','lhenever \"0 h8d the mumps she al'dBys opened a caD of sardines and mnde us use the.t oil, grease our necks w1th the oil from them sa.rdines, Hnd that hel ped em to go aVlay.1I IN'ri<:HVn:':fJlH:ou don't, think anythin8; Him that ;lOuld vlOrk novl, do you? ~.'Jrs.li'f1ir:"Yeh, live kno\'tn it to \lork. 1I IN1'EHVI EVfIlH: Rea lly? Hrs, Falr:"ln the in the last five or six years I've kno','fn it to \'lark. II IN'l'J~HVIE::lIER:Do you remembel' 1'101'1 to llIake syrup, Grandaddy? Mr.Smith: Il Ah, yeh, you made uh syrup by uh takin and strippin the enne and haulin it to the uh mill and u,h grindin it)the ;julco out of it and takln the ;juicc and uh putUn it in a boilor or evaporator and u.h boil it to a ayrup 8,nd tako it up uh and let it cool,and i.f' you \mnted to make sug;a)~ OlJ.t,of it, you'd uh let it stay ten to h'lOlve minutes and boD After hIt U7, syl'up,and then tRke it up and uh let it cool and in a day or two uh put it in fl bag and uh strnin it and nh itld loave the sugar in the bat!; Hnd uh tho molnsses'cl drain out. It INTlmVIE';II':H:It' you ate that foam ()ff the syrup \'/Ouldn't it tea.!' up your stomach, or sOllwthinr; like thr:ct? I can remembor Uldin~ talking about getting, .. , Mrs . .r-3ndth: f1 you could take that fonm nne! lnake beer' out of it if you \'mnted to, .yeh,1I IN'l'IlHVIE';!Ji:H:HorJ,] ly? Mako beer'? Did you evel' do that'f 16 Mr. 3mith: II I don I t remember. II Mrs.Smith:"You could give that foam to your hogs snd it'd make em drunk. II ( Lauf,hter) I Nl' fi:HV I EiiE:H :'1lhat did you do for a livinp-, Grandaddy? Mra.Smith:"He done so much, Carole, he cain't tell y"." (Laughter) Mr.8rllit.h: f1 r done no much til I uh cnin1t remomber nIl of lto ll IN(PEnVII~;\'ll~H:\'lell, didn I t you c:.nd GrandmotheY' llv-J,ke caskets :01t one time'l You'd build the Cf\sket Bnd Bhe '-lol>ld HIsko the lininp: and all for :it. ~;r .Sm; th: "I uh Btarted off in life by uh uh carpentingW and uh buildin fence o.nd uh \'Iha t havo ya, and uh hIter I opened a cnbinet shop, and' uh I uh kep R stock of uh lumher, Hnd uh \!henover a neighbor \'Ianted a casket or a coffin built I'd build it and uh my ,-rife Iiould cover it, cevor it I-lith cloth, andf:ro) I'd put the harclt-rnre on it ,and uh make it nice and uh m"ke it to where that the noighbor was wi,llin to be bllried in it. 11 IN'l'EHVIl':':IIlH:Did ya'l1 ever have a sotting up? Did yo.'l1 evor have nnything called H setting up \'There you'd, uh Vlhon I gness 'Thcn they didn't embalm people and they Iiould just lay the deBd perBon out and the ;leople ,'iOuId st[',y up 1,'lith him. Mr.8mith: lJ Yeh, set up Vlith em at night and uh Qftor 8, nir~:ht or t\'/O they I d uh bury em,' but they didn I t have ,Yny undertnl{'cr or anythi.ne; of' the kind t.a embalm em." IN'I'lmVIE';/EH:':lh"t did they do l'ihon somebody died? HOI'I did they prepare t}leii bodies? IV;. Smith I trrrhey I d drOSfJ em and lay 'em out and \J.h Iny D. f_;\1eet Ove)" em for thnl; vlhore thoy I d be coo 1, nnd uh before. they uh got too ripo thoy1d 1.111 rut om u'<!D.y. II 17 INTI':HVII,'dEH:Dld they .. did they evet' pu.t money over poople's eyes? Mr .2mlth: "Huh 1" INTi':HVIEilml:(Hcpollted the questIon) MrJ~rnith:IINo. Yoh, they \'[OI),ld put m.oney on the \,hcn t,hey 1,',l(mt to cJose the eyes "Ihen U"'y dIed they'd In.y meney on the eyes to make em make the eyel:idn uh f:ltay th01~e.1l Mr.~;m:ith:"'rhnt0 ust, to he EU1 old feller' thot lived do\,rn the 1~:Lve:r from uhor I ':l8.8 rn.lsed, and he \'ms an [n-rrlll joker and tnle tellor, rAeet and uh I remember hearing or ODO of his jakel). Said ,there was a holler cyprus and he snw 999 sql2irrels ~o i(1 a haJler, and uh a neig;hho}' asks him sez, l~!jr .. Holden~ sez uh, 'You'd better come dm'ln a S(llli.rrol or two'.Scz,IThat's a lot of sq0irrel~' Sez,l~o11,I knOl-l th""o \ms 600 l and he ,,,oz the)' peoked in thd, ho 11 or tree until OVCl~ timo they'd hrerlthe the troe \'TOulrl stretch, and ho \'ms a notod_ous 1 jnr and u.h tho ,2;l'mltost joker in the country. II II Wo hnd a vIsitor one time that wns n fortllne toller. Sho told me th.'t, of sOllle buried money nonr a grnveY8.rd thn t un ole t,:i.mer uh died and left, and he vas cnrthbound and uh we couldn1t dig :i t i-d.thout uh int.orffereno('l of) Prom this., hin spirit, and nh I wont and uh locn.ted the woney whore this rortunc~ toller tole lrlO :irl llh nn 010 uh oven, an 010 time Dutch oven, that she r:mid It was buri od :i n, D.nd I I oellted uh thnt ~-li th 8.Y1 :h~on rod In the p;round, but nevor did go nnd dig i1:,. And I.lh while me IJnd Q yOt.U1g mnn \-!HS out at nir,hi:, 1).h n try':in f:l fjpan:i.:-lh noodlo (?7) out, \'10 uh loce-ted ..this ItlOney [l.nd after wo left D.nd uh le:ft tho ground '-Ie i,mn to talk then ar::in, and \'10 i"mnn I t to tnJ.k dupin thf1 time \'Ie ':10.8 uh try in to 18 find it, and uh ho the flrst.., one of the first thing he rw.ld)he caught his broathe like he I d boen seared. He so.id, IVlhol in tho "lorId is them damned 001'18 I (ltaup;hter) in tho cornfield?' And I snid,IVlell th;:d,' is jus part of. It, 'l'hB.t ts ilJ1!J.ginntion, I ]]l).t \'Ie) I never did got anyone t.o go Nith me bB.ck to to see about digp:ing it,and uh I been told sinco then t.hs.t t.he money had boon found, and thejolo man give it up and the money h:u.l been found and dug. II IN'l'EHVII'ilERID:Ld you say 'lO",ethlng about a spinach sUck? A splnaoh stick, is t.hat what. you said? Apparently he lnisllnderstood the question. He is (1llit8 hard of hearing. Mr.,I';mith: 1t lt' s a he tho ole m8.n uh \'lhen he died ull he had a spi.rit of aYlyjety over this lllOnc,Y', D.nd D,h he uh. }md benn gunrdin i.t all 1e,n,~ theso/,and l'/Ould .. Ilouldn't agree for anybody t.o bot,her It. uh \'lithout some of td.s folks ho.vin a n sher in it, o.nd I uh 'dont out) 1:1ent .. a brother a son of the ole Win owned the land and I got permission and uh to go and hunt, it 'Hid uh thllt i.s the reason I'lhy t.het:r 1'/8.S on the Innd. II Mrs.Fa:i.r:ItOne night, I t'JaS sittin up with a eorpse nnd H cat hl3d got into the house,anll we was all a sottin ifl thoro where the corpse 'dns at, you. ~(nO\'l, and \\'0 kept soeing the feot H mavin and V10 thought the \:lOlnnn t'JaS comin up orf th::',t eoolin board, and evorybody jllYnpecl up and i"nD out of 1:,ho houso but me, I tom ttcn scared. And I \10nt over thoro t,o soe I:lhnt it wns D.nd :it \nu.; th::-.t 010 cnt had under thn.t sheet, Dnd thflt ViaS thn.t c::.t \'tnlkin round,lI TN'l'EHV.[fo;Vmn:EVOl'ybody left you thou.gh, buh? I'~rs,Fo.:i.r:tlYeh, they n11 lor me there by lilyselr. 1I ffot o ," rrhen ona timo I \'H:W s(-lttin up \.,:1 th anothor i'folllan, nnd they had her in H,) on the hed, nnd her legs I,','CI,;:: drn.wod u.p undo):' her i'/hen 20 Ghe died, und they cln,imocl they cut hep logs, you kno\-l, to make em stretch out, So they 1:13.f{ 15 a settin in 1:,h0 room and her legs jus come up, you know, jus liko she was fixin to bring her legs up to eot u.p off' the bed, and evcryone of em jumped out the winders and dooy's and run, And uh that kind of' seared me a li.ddle blt because I, you kno\'l, I couldnlt, imngine nbou.t l:.hat,2.nd GO I \'lent OV'vt and uh hollered fOl~ some hep to carCle u.p thcY'c,and i'rhen they ['~ot th"re they called the undertpJ,ers, and the undertakers come baek Qut there and sald thnt they didn't cut the main leeder, you know, j 1'1 the leg, and \'Then it r>te.yed stretched out so long; it drlHlod it . that's ~hat drawed it back up." IN'fe:HVIE'iIEHIUh huh. HO\'I about thatl Mrs.Fair:IIThat like to scared all of us to death. 11 IWI1ERVIEi'rgn:I r~uef3s so. Carole Smith 1\ pt. G 2395 Old Stone Mtn,Hd. Ohamblee 4513365 A PDF transcript exists for this recording. Please contact an archivist for access. Professor John Burrison founded the Atlanta Folklore Archive Project in 1967 at Georgia State University. He trained undergraduates and graduate students enrolled in his folklore curriculum to conduct oral history interviews. Students interviewed men, women, and children of various demographics in Georgia and across the southeast on crafts, storytelling, music, religion, rural life, and traditions. As archivists, we acknowledge our role as stewards of information, which places us inaposition to choose how individuals and organizations are represented and described in our archives. 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