Frank Cipolla interview with Louise Harris Brewington

The John Burrison Georgia Folklore Archive recordings contains unedited versions of all interviews. Some material may contain descriptions of violence, offensive language, or negative stereotypes reflecting the culture or language of a particular period or place. There are instances of racist language and description, particularly in regards to African Americans. These items are presented as part of the historical record. This project is a repository for the stories, accounts, and memories of those who chose to share their experiences for educational purposes. The viewpoints expressed in this project do not necessarily represent the viewpoints of the Atlanta History Center or any of its officers, agents, employees, or volunteers. The Atlanta History Center makes no warranty as to the accuracy or completeness of any information contained in the interviews and expressly disclaims any liability therefore. If you believe you are the copyright holder of any of the content published in this collection and do not want it publicly available, please contact the Kenan Research Center at the Atlanta History Center at 404-814-4040 or reference@atlantahistorycenter.com. In this recording, Louise Harris Brewington tells stories from her childhood and other folk tales and sings hymns and folk songs. Brewington starts by recalling songs that her great-grandmother, who was enslaved, would sing to her grandmother, who became a freed person, which were subsequently passed down to her. At 2:20, she sings four songs she learned from her grandmother and explains their origins. Next, at 9:12, Brewington sings songs from the hymn book, Gospel Pearl, including Wading in the Water and Calvary. At 18:00, Brewington states that blacksmiths, such as her father, were part of the community. Her fathers favorite hymn was Amazing Grace, which she then sings at 18:55. She also explains how to word out a hymn and sings an example. Next at 29:00, Brewington recalls quiltings where local women gathered to quilt in the summer. She also explains quilting techniques and describes other get-togethers she attended. At 32:45, Brewington sings another short hymn originally sung by her grandmother when she worked on a plantation. This leads to her describing courting traditions practiced at church; her grandparents met at church because her grandfather served as a minister. At 42:10, she explains few born into slavery were literate, so instead they passed down stories orally. Next, she tells riddles originally told at campfires at 43:30. At 47:00 she recalls a visitor from her childhood who told ghost stories, a few of which she repeats. To conclude her interview, Brewington recalls childhood stories about family members and ghosts. Louise Harris Brewington (1909-1980) was born in Atlanta, Georgia. Her great-grandmother Francis Amma was a slave, and her grandmother was a freed slave. Additional biographical information has not been determined. l~OI,I<:LORE OOLLECTING PROJEOT FRANK CIF OLLA JUNE 2, 1970 GEORGIA STATE UNIVERSITY !) ( fJ'1 , "\'/)11., I (I /_ -ii' -:1 .- . \ Ii , () () ''/ !,JI I,: I' \1 ;/ : ) THE INTERVIEW Interviewer: Who taught them Lthe songsJ to yOU? Louise: My Mother. See, uh, her grandmother, which was my great grandmother, were a slave. She was a slave, Granmna V\;\,;.", I';I J Frances. And Mama's mother Grandmama '\ Clarie was a little baby in slavery an' I guess roun' about seven or eight years old when freedom were declared. And so after she was grown and married, she would sing these songs to Mama, ya know. In fact it was the only songs that they knew and she would sing 'em to Mama, and so when I got up a good size little girl Mama would sing 'em to me, ya know, because in that way she was helping me to remember my ancestors, I think. And she would sing 'em to me and so I remembered 'em pretty good. And they said that was the way they comnunicated. Ya see they wasn't allowed to visit like we visit, and, uh, if one was caught off of the plant~tion where he worked, they would punish him, unlessen he had a pass. Ke Ya see they had mens to ride up and down to catch 'em, they called 'em patteroles. And so, they would, most all of the plantat ions were j olned, ya know, and out in the country all those woods echo sounds long ways, and they would sing 2 and answer each other back in songs, that's the way,they communicated with each other, ,just like that. Now that what was told to Mama it was told to me. And so they start a song and they would add to 'em theirselves, ya see. They had no books or anything like that and they just add to a song whatever I guess that sound good to tem or they would add to that song, and they would sing. ~ley say like, maybe one over on this side would start singing: "Soon this mornin', death come creepin t in my room. Soon this mornin', death come creepin' in my room. o Lordy, soon this mornin', death come creepin' in my room. o my Lord, 0 my Lordy what shall I do?" Then you hear another one: "I'm so glad trouble don't last always. I'm so glad trouble don't last always. o Lordy, I'm so glad trouble don't last always. o my Lord, 0 my Lordy what shall I do? o grave, you cantt hold me always. o grave, you can't hold me always. o Lordy, 0 grave, you can't hold me always. o my Lord, 0 my Lordy what shall I do?" Like that. Then maybe later on one would start him a song or her a song: I,I ''. {I. ( 'l/' . "Down by the riverside, down by the riverside, Well I pulled off my war garment down by the riverside, And I ain't gonna stir de war no more, aintt gOlli1a st~dY ~ war no more, Ain't gonna stUcl941 war no more, aintt gonna(stir, ide war no more. ' ' I (Continued on page 3) \[ 3 Well I laid down my sword and shield down by the riverside, Down by the riverside, down by the riverside. Well I laid down my sword and shield down by the r:l.:lT erside, And I ain't gonna stir de war no more." Then you hear another one: "Well I put on my traveling shoes down by the riverside, down by the riverside, Well I put on my war shoes down by the riverside, And I ain't gonna stir de war no more. Well I ain't gonna stir de war no more, ain't gonna stir de war no more, Ain't gonna stir de war no more." So that's the way they did it. Interviewer: There's a popular song that's come back lately as a folk song, the same song. Did that tune originate back from your granrunother? I was wondering if it had been modified. Louise: Db huh, yeah, they all came from--well, really tJ,at's what this folk song came from (what they sing now) 'cause they use it in, well I don't want to say call .',em blues, but a lot of people does. But they originally came from that. Fact, everything that we use of today has been used once before some--back in slavery only by a different generation and a little more addition to it, ya know. Ya see, now we have never had the first of anything. Never have, no. Someone else had started it and we, each genera~ion learn e.nd sing it or say it or fix it their way. We all have 4 ideas on how we would like to do things. So that's the way that is. Ya know we say man creates, but man has never created anything. Ya see, when you create something it comes from nothing, and God was the only one ever created. So everything man makes, don't care how wonderful it is, he had the material already here to make i.t out of when they were born into the world. Did you ever realize that? ,., So that's the way it is. Well, want another one? Interviewer: Yes, I like listening to them . "You've never seen these written down, have you--ever? Louise: No, I have a Gospel ~l. Now that's the oldest, ('-~ I think, hymn book it is. Now it has "Wading in the lllater, Children. " c:' That's a song, of the old time, "'l11ading in the water," and then I have in there "Were You There When They Nailed Him to the Cross?" Now it's in there, but it's a little mOl'e different in that book than it was the way Grandmama would sing it to Mama, see. Beoause the way it's in this book quite naturally you pley in church with it, ya know. See, it has the notes to for the music. Interviewer: You going to sing us another song? Lou..1.se: Let me see here now, I'll get the tune. I wanted to see could I get the tune. It's purty but I don't whether loan get the tune of it or not, see. 5 "Were you there when they nailed Him to the cross? Was you there when they nailed Him to the cross? Was you there? Was you there? 1,Vas you there when they nailed Him to the cross? Was you there when they speared Him in the side? Was you there vn1en they buried it in the side? Was you there? Was you there? Was you there when they speared Him in the side? Sometime He causes me to tremble, tremble, tremble. Sometime He causes me to tremble. Was you there when He hung His head and died? Was you thel'e when they speared Him in the side? Was you there when they speared Him in the side? Was you there? Was you there? Was you there when they speared Him in the side? Interviewer: I've heard a form of that before, but it's sort of fixed up, you know, different. Lamise: Yeah, in this Gospel Pearl it's real purty played in church, ya know, B,nd you have your bass and your tenor and sopre.no and 13.11 those. Interviewel': And the tune is a little bit different. This is the traditione.l tune, though, isn't it? Louise: Uh huh. Ya see I'm just singing 'em in the old way. There's a song I usually bass. ['"She leaves for a moment to get her copy of the Gospel Pearl to get the words of the song.y Interviewer: Will this book have the same tune you used to sing it by? Louise: No. Ya see now, here's a song what I was trying to sing a while ago. Now this is one I never could sing it 6 'cause it's, you ha ve to go up high. !,'Wading in the Water: II IIWadin' in the water, children, wadin' in the water, children, Wadin' in the water, children. God gonna trouble the water. Well see that host all dressed in white, God gonna trouble the water. Well it looks like the children of the Israelites, God gonna trouble the water. Wadin' in the water, ohildren, wadin' in the water, ohildren, Wadin' in the water, God gonna'trouble the water. Well now see I can't sing it like it is in here. Fact I don't even know notes. Ain't no way loan learn 'em. Then here's one we use to sing when I sang in the choir. Now that's an old one~ "Calvary, Cal ve.ry, Calvary, Calvary, surely He died on Calvary. Every time I think about Jesus,every time I think about Jesus, Every time I think about Jesus, surely He died on Calval'y. Don't you hear that han@er ringing, don't you hear that ha~ner ringing? Don't you hear that hamrner ringing? Surely he died on Calvary. Interviewer: Are you singing the words from the.t ~the book-! or are those the words you know? Louise: Yes, these are the words that originally came. See, I just forgets the words sometimes and I get oonfused. And tllat's why I got it so I can get the words. But it's just 7 a repeating, ya know. Everyone, it has to be repeated three times 'cause they are questions. Interviewer: I was just wondering if this was coming from your memory. Louise: I can keep the title of most of the songs in mind pretty good, but I forget all the words. Now here's one, "Somebody Knooking on Your Door." And my Grandaddy used to sing that. Interviewer: Did he sing that when he was working or just at home around the house? Louise: Yeah, he would be workin'. He had a blaoksmith's shop. His hymn was "On Jordan's Stormy Bank I Stand and Cast My Wishful Eye." He used to sing that. And then he used to sing, 'cause they were old hymns, but every now and then they have 'em in books. Now we have 'em in. the hymnbooks that we use at ohuroh, but then they had a common meter, a long meter, and a short meter, but now they all is sung very near in the same tune in the song books of today. One he used to sing was: "Amazing graoe, how sweet the sound that saved a wretch like me. I once was lost but now I'm found, was blind but now I see. I onoe was lost but now I am found, was blind but now I see. Now that's the way they sung 'em then. But they don't sing 'em that way. Now that was oalled a short meter. Now 8 it had it all in the hymnbook. But you don't even have those kind of hymnbooks now. I don't ever see any in church. Interviewer: Did anybody read the notes or did they have shaped notes in their hymnbooks? Louise: Not in the hymnbooks. And uh, they had notes but not as many as I can remember in our books as they have in 'em now. I know where you hold or where you're supposed to go up but a lot of time I can I t get up there. Mama I s hymn, :her favorite song she used to like to sing: "A charge to keep I have, a God to glorify, \lIJho gave His Son my soul to save, and. fix it for the sky. \lIJho gave His Son my soul to save, and fix it for the sky. To serve a present age, my callin ' to fulfill, To serve a present age, m~ callinl to fUlfill, a may it all my power engage to do my Master's will, a may it all my power engage to do my Master's will." Now thatls what you call a hymn. And each time you sing a stanza and repeat the verse that's what they would. call wording out a hymn. But ya see, they very seldom does that now. They just sing it straight through like you would any other song. Ya see ya word it out then they would sing it, and when they sang that stanza you would word out the next, see. And that's what would put the fire in the song, ya know. If somebody had. a good strong, heavy voice and you would sing that and then they'd stop and word out that 9 other. Interviewer: And just say it, sort of? Louise: Well no, let me see if I can give you an idea: "Did Chl'ist of sinners weep, and shall our cheeks be dry? ;-sung slowly 7 Let floods-of penitential grief burst forth from every eye. ~spoken rapidly 7 Let floods of penitential grief Durst forth from every eye. ~sung slowlyJ" And see hOVI I came in between those and that's what, that's the way ya hymn goes. Interviewer: You sort of sang it in a different way, real quickly. That's the wording out? Louise: Uh huh. Ya see, you're wording it out, and that's what makes it, well we don't have those kind of meetings now. When I was a little girl that was a good meeting. Really, I'm tellin' you the truth. You could hear 'em sing'.. ing in the woods where the church sittin' way back from the highway, and you could hear 'em singing look like two mnes before you get there, ringing out in the echoes and look like your feet would kina get on wheels, you hurry up to get there. And Mama would have me by the hand, and we would go, sometimes we'd go in a two-horse wagon. Sometime we go in a buggy. Grandaddy had a surrey they used to call 'em with the fringe on the top and two hor'ses and, oh boy, we was big shots, you know, and you had a surrey. And, well, it 10 wasn't livin' rooms, it was front rooms. That was called 8 front room. And a surrey. And a center table they called it, sittin' in the middle of the floor with a nice pretty lamp, or a nice pretty bowl and. pitcher. And a pretty cedar water bucket with brass hool{s that every Saturday you had to clean those and have those hooks shining like gold. And a glass dipper, we had a glass dipper. And then we had goats that Grandaddy raised and we used in the kitchen. Now when you had that you was considered good livin', you see. Interviewer: There are always symbols of the way you lived all the way back. Louise: Yeah, that's the symbol of the way you lived. And for amusement Mama said they would have quiltins, ya Imow in the summertime. In their spare time all the ladies would get together and piece up quil ts.' I don't think you've ever seen a quilt, do yoU? Interviewer: I've seen crazy quilts that my Grandmother makes. She makes little squares in her spare time and after' she's made a whole bunch of them she puts 'em together. Louise: And some, you strip 'em. Now that was called strip- r) pin' You have your wide piece, manbe that wide and as wide as you want to strip it. And you sew one block there and one over here, see, and that would make it twice as long, , 11 goin' that way. Well that go all the way. Maybe you'd have red go this-a-way, white that way, blue this-a-way, and then when you get it stripped together then you have your linin'. Well most everybody would save salt sacks and flour sacks to make the linin', which would be white, easy to soil. Then they would get walnuts, you've seen black walnuts. Well when they are in the hull, ya know, it's green. Well they would hull them out of there and and put those walnuts in the wash potr~~a big iron pot what they boil clothes in, and water, and put that linin' in there and boil it and that would dye it. It would come out a brown, a real dark brown. Now that was the linin'. Then you had to get yOUI' cotton, ya see. And you place your cotton on the linin' and then put the top, the quilt on top of that. And then you had quiltin' frames, four, and they hang, they had things up in the ceiling like, ya know, and ,"our cords. You have four cords. Well, then you tie that quiltin' frame to those cords, and then four ladies would have chairs, each one settin' at a side, and they quilt, ya see. Now they do that in the winter time. Now that was their entertainment, and the children would thread the needles. And they would have peanuts, and potatoes, am maybe somebody balced a ham, all those things. We had good eatin'. You don't have none now 'cause it's too high to buy. But we really had a plenty. Milk,and butter, chickens and eggs, guineas. You never seen a guinea? A fowl, 12 he kinda slopes down and he doesn't have a tail like a hen. He's Jdnda, just to look at him, looks like it mighta been broke there and bent down like, but that's the way he were born. ~nd they are speckley. They got little specks on 'em kinda like a little polky dot. Interviewer: Do they still exist? Louise: I don't know. If they do it's got to be way out in the country. Interviewer: Do you know any more songs that used to be sung on the plantation? Louise: Yeah: "T' is that old ship of Zion, is that old ship of Zion, Is that old ship of Zion makin' to the promised land? That is the ship that carried my Mother, that is the ship that carried my Mother, That is the ship that carried my Mother, makin' to the promised land." That was one. Interviewer: Did they learn these hymns from preachers coming down to Ohristianize them? Louise: No, very few ministers were way back in those days. The preachers and singing in churches and tllings, I believe they begin to exist when Grandmama was a young lady. In dating they would all take the girls to church. See they didn't go to shows 'cause there wasn't any, and so they take 'em to church. And that's the way her and Grandaddy met, I think, 'cause he was a minister, see. A lot of times 13 it may be ten miles it was just one church. Well the white and the colored all went to the same church Now they had a big time sittin' round the fire in the winter time eatin' peanuts, tellin' riddles and playing Old Horse or Jack-inthe- Bush. See we'd play that with peanuts. Yo. get so many peanuts up in your hand like that and say "Old Horse." And another one'd say, "I'll ride 'im." Say, "How many miles?" and maybe someone over there says, "rrhree." Well if you didn't have but one in your hand he would have to give you two peanuts. Then Jack-in-the-Bush. Some would say, "I'll cut him down." "How many licks?" "Five." Interviewer: Did they always say the same riddles over? Were they standard riddles? Louise: No, they always, usually had something different. 'Cause they say like-two legs was sittin' on three legs, with one leg in his lap. Four legs came and got one leg, two legs jumped up and takin' three legs and hit four legs. Now what would that be? Well, it was a man sittin' on an organ stool, yo. know, a piano stool. They used to have legs. Well, the man was sittin' on a piano stool with a ham in his lap. That was the hog's leg. And the dog came up and got the ham leg so that was that. What's black and white and read allover? Well I ~link most everybody learned or caught on to that. Well, I went across London Bridge and 14 met my sistel' Nancy. I cut her throat, I sucked her blood and left her body dancing. What was that? It is a blackberry bush. You seen blackberries grow? Well, when you pull the berry off the bush don't it leave the bush shaking? And when you chew it ain't that getting the blood off her and leaving her body dancing? Well, me and my cousin used to set up and tell stories at night. He said he saw it so cold one time until they had to make a fire round the cow's bag to thaw the milk before he could milk her. We would be talkin' about each other's folks, ya know, our people. And I say, l'Yeah",'whan I was down at your uncle's house," I say, "he had a mule so poor till he had to put a blanket around to keep the wind from blowing the hay after he ate it. Then he say he was gain' through the forest and he saw a king snake-will chase other snakes--and said he saw a coach-whip was running so fast until the heat from him set the forest afire. And a king snake came on behind, running so fast till the sweat from him put it out. There was a man used to come to our house and used to tell ghost stories. And I'm tellin' you the truth, I was even afraid to go to bed. He said he was traveling and he came to this old house and said it was cold so he got him up some wood and stuff and went in there and build a fire and got him a box, and he was sittin l there in front of the fire. Said after a while a head rolled. It had upstairs. Most all of the ghost houses had upstairs, ya notice. So this head came rolling down the steps and rolled 01lt 15 out in the middle of the floor. Say after while two arms came down. And just kept on till the whole man came down and got together then and stood up. And said he looked around at it and says, the man, this ghost, says, "Well," say, "ain't nobody here but me and you, is it?" So he said, "No, and I won't be here long." And out the dOOl' he went. Say he runned and runned and runned and runned. He was so tired. Say he stopped and sit down on a log and say when he sat, you know, "Phewl" like that. So the ghost said, "WhewI You sho can run." Said he said, "I hadn't run yet. So just wait." So he took off again. 'Cause he like to run hisself to death. But he were tellin' it, I was in there just af,raid of bein' afraid, I guess. L_~~~ Daddy he'd say when he was real young-my stepfather-and said this white man had a watermelon patch-whi.te man or colored man~ut anyway somebody had the watermelon patch right aside the road. It's a gres.t big nice watermelon. And, uh, they's comin' from church. Now they' done been to church. And they decided they'd get a watermelon comin' back through this watermelon patch. No, it was Daddy's uncle, that's who it was. They was comin' back through his watermelon patch. And he was sittin' out there with his shotg.un c'ross his lap on a stump. 'Cause he was contendin' to shoot whoever came in the watermelon patch. And he said 16 he wouldn't go up in the patch, but he let the other boys go up there. And his uncle had gone to sleep. Well they was so bUsy gettin' the watermelon to get out 'fore he catch 'em, they didn't even realize that somethin' was on the stump beside the stump. So says, one said, "I got this llttle small one, I'm gonna this open now and eat it. And he hit Uncle John across the head with the vlatermelon and that scared Uncle John so Uncle John went that way and they went this way and they didn't get the watermelon and he didn I t shoot nobody. ["In her next story Louise mentions the fact that the people Vlould pray at church meetings for the devil to leave their houses and that they took it very seriously,J INFORMATION ABOUT LOUISE Name: Louise Harris Brewington Age: 61 years Race: Negro Residence: Atlanta Date of Interview: April, 1970 A PDF transcript exists for this recording. Please contact an archivist for access. Professor John Burrison founded the Atlanta Folklore Archive Project in 1967 at Georgia State University. He trained undergraduates and graduate students enrolled in his folklore curriculum to conduct oral history interviews. Students interviewed men, women, and children of various demographics in Georgia and across the southeast on crafts, storytelling, music, religion, rural life, and traditions. As archivists, we acknowledge our role as stewards of information, which places us inaposition to choose how individuals and organizations are represented and described in our archives. We are not neutral, andbias isreflected in our descriptions, whichmay not convey the racist or offensive aspects of collection materialsaccurately.Archivists make mistakes and might use poor judgment.We often re-use language used by the former owners and creators, which provides context but also includes bias and prejudices of the time it was created.Additionally,our work to use reparative languagewhereLibrary of Congress subject termsareinaccurate and obsolete isongoing. Kenan Research Center welcomes feedback and questions regarding our archival descriptions. If you encounter harmful, offensive, or insensitive terminology or description please let us know by emailingreference@atlantahistorycenter.com. Your comments are essential to our work to create inclusive and thoughtful description.