Larry Hester Interview with Milton Coleman and Mrs. Bandy (part one)

The John Burrison Georgia Folklore Archive recordings contains unedited versions of all interviews. Some material may contain descriptions of violence, offensive language, or negative stereotypes reflecting the culture or language of a particular period or place. There are instances of racist language and description, particularly in regards to African Americans. These items are presented as part of the historical record. This project is a repository for the stories, accounts, and memories of those who chose to share their experiences for educational purposes. The viewpoints expressed in this project do not necessarily represent the viewpoints of the Atlanta History Center or any of its officers, agents, employees, or volunteers. The Atlanta History Center makes no warranty as to the accuracy or completeness of any information contained in the interviews and expressly disclaims any liability therefore. If you believe you are the copyright holder of any of the content published in this collection and do not want it publicly available, please contact the Kenan Research Center at the Atlanta History Center at 404-814-4040 or reference@atlantahistorycenter.com. This is the first installment of a two-part recording in which Mrs. Bandy recollects stories and traditions from her childhood in Germany. She begins by talking about German customs such as dancing and traditional clothing around certain holidays, such as Easter, Midsummer, Midwinter, and St. Catherines Day. At 8:30 she switches to the use of herbs and plants to treat diseases and provide spiritual protection. She also says that objects, like medallions, can provide protection. Next, at 13:00, she says that her mother was a midwife and local doctor and describes some of her treatments, explaining that midwives and healers were seen as possessing great wisdom and divine healing in Germany. At 16:45 Bandy talks about traditions and superstitions about fairies and fairy godmothers. The interviewer, Larry Hester, interjects occasionally with stories from his childhood. At 21:00, Bandy compares mythical creatures such as fairies, witches, trolls, mermaids, elves, and dwarves. Next at 25:21, Bandy talks about gifts exchanged in her family, such as embroidery, which was also sometimes set out as fairy offerings. She continues at 27:50 on the topic of Black Forest dwarves, which congregated around areas with a mineral surplus, such as the Black Forests surplus of silver. She continues that dwarves have a connection to Nordic traditions as well as roots in other cultures. At 35:45 she switches to superstitions about trolls pertaining to livestock and butter making. At 37:10, Bandy talks about childhood toys, riddles, and rhymes such as a jump rope, balls, and songs. At 47:20, she talks about German riddles and rhymes. Larry Hester and Bandy tell different versions of a rabbit and the fox story. At 52:17, Bandy talks about the hierarchy of the animal kingdom; for example, lions are at the top and owls have a unique place. Also, animals, such as cuckoo birds, play an important role in traditional stories. Briefly, she discusses dream interpretation. From 54:50-59:00 she describes her familys origins, including where her mother and father originated and their family history. Bandy herself was born in Heidelberg, Germany, in 1929, and later immigrated to the United States. She also explains how her familys history and customs differ from other locals, such as the Swabians. Milton Coleman (1929-?) was half Cherokee and half Scottish-Irish and mainly raised by his mother, who was from Cherokee, North Carolina, on a reservation in North Carolina. He later became a painter for Delta Airlines. Mrs. Bandy was born in Heidelberg, Germany, and her family is from the Black Forest region. She married an American and moved to Atlanta, Georgia, in 1964, where she taught Sociology at Georgia State University. Additional biographical information has not been determined. 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(LOC subject headinos only) Keywords Burrison, John Personal names See subject who for additional names to \'Cl1ye n , 1'"{lT' tUV) I 1''\ .I ,.'"'-..j\1.___,IJ', 3 Corporate names Geographic locations C:reI (nc~ VI \k ._. ~) f i r\ tA ( \ f " Topics 4 'i ) (i I I \ ~ 1 1 I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I ;" I'" ,/1' J" (.',\"iIi, ""I ',' ( "I"" 11 / ,- /!,/J',I I'i. I,/!i' tI' r (I ,(iii ,Ii" (i(\ '\, I (' \ I " ,II ,t ,i (, I' , / i\ -'. \t Ii" ( Collection Project for Folklore .300 by Larry Heeter December 3, 1969 INFORI4ENT Milton Coleman I Half Cherokee and half Sootish-Irish is Milton Coleman. A blending of Indian tradition and the urban sooiety has produoed this thirty eight year old Delta Air Lines painter. His father a Sootish-Irish from Augusta, married his mother a full blooded Cherokee from Cherokee, <North Carolina. Though his parents separated and he was raised solely by his mother, who passed to him many of the traditions his mother learn on the reservation in North Carolina as a ohild. 1. I. ),111ton Coleman I The story I think you uh want to bear most is, is, is the ub, ie the one of the, the light that lead uh on the trail of tears the story I:~ve always heard. Well, 0,," the trail of tears on of my ancesters was on, there's the story that's been passed down from one hand to another. The indians passed uh through winters, summers, wint- uh cold, heat uh, no food uh, they, they was sufferin really and so they, the started their migration to the west and they got in in to OklahOma andthsre's afters all the deaths and plague and diseases there's just about 425, 450 of em left, and so they, theywere lost, they didn't know whicb w~y to go, where to go, or what to do. An' uh eo one night there W1\S three of the men up in this uh particular spot. I've heard, always I've always heard, this light appeared to em, and the light was an olmen the way they took it and they were told to follow the light l trust the light and uhs this light would appear to elll every so often and they follows this light just like it said and later it lee.d into Arizona where the geme was plentiful and where there was plenty of food, plent of water, and nice shealter for em and ub andthey more less uh 1'0-1'8 juvinated rebuilt their forcos and uh and strengthened theirselves and after they put a little weight on you might matterof speakip.g. Somo of them started back, but some of em stayed, and that's how the trail of teared of uh the way they ub suffered so mucb and uh, but the hole tbip.g that fe.cinated me about it was this parti oular light and )1h ,",how it appeared, wby it appeared and what you knowl and uh several of the uh old tales that have oome out from up in the mountains of there uh Cherokee and around North Carolina and Tennessee. 2. 3. even find the clob, rock, or what ever it was he beat the horse with, they, they didn't even find it. But yet the horse was dead and they can't figure out and uh think~there's several tales like that. II!. Well, uh another one is uh of my mother uh said back up in the hills there they never lock the doors, didn't have locks on the doors. And uh they uhslept with the windows open at night and out back of my mothers house down on this little flat section of land they had a cotton patch and my mother said that one night she was laying there, said she looked out the window, say ehe looked aoross this cotton patch and she saw this light and in the middle of thie light was a woman just beautiful white elimuniated you know and it disappeared. And this went on for two, three, four nights and the thing each night got closer and On the fourth night the thing was right on the outside of her window and she IIQI.S looking it right in the face, juet soared to death, and tears just rolling down the womans cheek and it disappeared and ae soon as it.. dilleppeared, she heard her mother sorelUD and her aunt had died. And how do you esplain these things. I dcn't know) IV. Milton Coleman I BUt, ~h another o~ is my grandfother. When he died, mother said for three or four nights preceeding his death, eaid thie owl, ehe and her brother both heard it, this owl just eet out eide her window, just in a slow mown they make all night long. And oome dawn the owl would disappear. And four nights later my grandfather died and they didn't hear the owl any more. Larry Hester I Never heard the owl after that? 4. Milton Coleman I Never heard him afterwords and I don't know, it, it's hard to ," explain these tales, these are just some of the ole traditional tales I guees that are passed on. Uh, on the more humorious side of this uh Larry lIester I Let me ask a question? Milton Coleman I Yea, sure. Larry Bester I Do you believe these? Milton Coleman I Well I don't know Uh Larry Hester I Do you think they are just legends or soms kind of Milton Coleman I Well, I don't know whether my mother believed them. She bad told me what she had heard and she told me what she had actually seen. And, and you don't know whether to disbelieve them or not so I'de just Larry Bester I She bad actually seen it? Mnton Coleman I She actually saw the light, .she actually saw it, she and her brother 5. both experienced the owl. And uh, uh, and ~ more recent uh thing that's happened to me personally is uh V. Uilton Coleman I I had this iCod ft-bnd who's name was Forrest Bruster, Tommy Bruster we called him. He worked with the East Point Police Department and uh, he and I were, he and I were real close. We fished, uh auful lot, we go out camping, fishing, h~ting, and we were real best of friends and back in the early 60' s and 61, 62, uh, Tommy was putting in uh, air ccnditioner he was electercuted and killed well (cough, excuse me) he was electercuted and killed under this ladies houeeputting in a air conditioner. Well, I had ~ dream about Tommy, about well, we went, we went hunting uh fishing this ona weekend. Andwe clamped out uh about four days the weekend before he .was killed the next week; and we had a real gcod time and uh while we were on this camping trip, I had this dream. And I don't know, I can't exactly remember the detll.ils of the dream, but Tommy was standing there real bloody and he WBS like he had been beaten or something like that and he had uh, be bid a big black spot right in the center of his forehead. And I told him the next morning, he'uh, I woke up, the dream woke me up it scared me so much, and I checked him, I got the flash light and checked him and hewBs fine. And we got up and fished the next day and I told him, 'I said Tommy, llIan be careful, says I, I had a terriable dream about you. Well, anyway, to mako a long story Short, he-we just ,ehruged 6. it off and, and uh, I couldn't forget it and sure enough we came home on a Yond8 and the next tho next daf, da, week he was killed. INFORMENT )Irs. Bandy I Sociology instructor at Georgia State UniversitYI born in in southern centural Germany, and raised in a remote valley in the Black Forrest. Both parents of Mrs. Bandy were native to the Black Forrest and were rich with folk tradition which they passed to her. She married an American, shortly after the war and has been living in the U.S. for the last thirteen years, with a short stay in England befor coming to the U.S. With children of her own, she is now passing those folk traditions learned as a child on to her children. VI. Larry Hesters Are you ready? lIrs. Bandys Yea, I am ready -- uh, 60 the first one, i. the one I told you once before and it' a called uh "The Pitilhor of Tears" w!iiln you translate it. And the story really ill uh that, uh, 0. mother could not get over the loss of the child, and the mother could not gat over the loas of tho ohild, and so'avery night --- and wall and during the d8, of courae, when she would go into the child's room or so. She would cry and she would, you know, just for hours every de.}' she would spend that time, uh, crying and uh, so she started after awhile to dreWll at night, uh, the her child was coming through the ,door of the house and into, into hor room and was earring a little piteng~, the pitcher looked as if it was, uh, wat~r~ And the ohild would reappear night after night after night after night and would oarry this little pitcher of water and one night the child oame in and looked very down cast and helt this pitoho of water and this pitcher of water was overflowitig and the child was wet and you know, looked real in-miserable the w8 ohildrenoan. By the\W81, the ohild was in his little, ,uh, uh, death robe,f:!i:dbi1tit"lj:now wheather you have this uh custom hear, too. But, uh, in Europe, for instanoe, and especially in rural areas of, the women maKe the death robes for their V /\ II () 1 (I \: -Ill /\) I.' ,l r'-/ I' 8. you know, uh, for their fe.mily and they are white, they, really are like night-shirts and they are white and they have a lot of lace and embroadery on it and so this little, the little ohild was wearing her little death-shirts, so she know it was, the ohild, the dead ohild really and not just a dream and this is how she, uh, experienoed it, and so she saw the ohild was so miserable. And she deoided to talk to the ohild and so she asked the ohild wb it was coming baok every night what was, you know, spoiling his uh, bia rest. And the ohild showed her the pitoher of water tbat was overflowing and said it oould not rest beoause uh the all bel' tears were oolleoted in this pitoher pi' water that was overflowing and said it oould not rest beoauee all her tears were colleoted in this pUlcher-of water M:o;hthe more she oried the higber of oourse, the level of water in the*- went and when it oame to a oertain level it started to spill over and she oould not, uh, sleep and rest peaoefully in her grave until her mother would stop orying, uh, about her, beoause the continuous drip of water and then she being you know, by her uh,;) mother's tears was making it impossible for her uh, to find any rest as long as she was grieving like that and so the motber resolved that from then on she would not cry atl1 longer. And;" ,uh -she uh, you know, did not and then the ohild appears again one night. And, uh, haa hill little _., pitoher of water and its, uh, empty now and the obild is dry. 9. And the ohild looks, looks g~ and, you know, uh well let's a&y very peaoeful, and thanks the mother and say loan go to rest now mother. End of story. (laughter) Yea, that's one of the storiea that my mo~er told me, another eR&Pt one 18 a very short one. It's oalled, uh, the little wooden bowl and it like right the bowl out of which you eat, yea, yea, that's the bowl and it goes like this. That we're uh, !.th, busband and a wife were bad a little son and with them lived a, a, an old grandfather And I don't know wheather it was his or bel'S and uh, the old grandfather he was very old and very feeble and when he would eat, you know, he would slop and he would m~te very strange noises and he would drop the spoon and, you know, tbings like that, he was just a very feeble old uh, man. And uh so they would alw~s yeU at him and tell him how badly he was behaving and they were really very unkind to him. A'tld through all this the little son sits very very quietly and one d8 the parents noticed the child had a block of wood and uh, a whUlling knife and he works with it and the more they look they see he is m~ing a little uh, so its really a little trough, I think you have that word too, don't you? The kind of things out of which pigs eat, is that a trough, yes, so I'm correot it is not a wooden bowl, it's the , uh, uh, wooden trQugh and he makes a titl little trough a.ltdnso when its ready the parents ask him why he made this tiny little wooden trough because you know, it was too small for for a 10. pig, and he had no other animal, you know, for which the trough was suitable. And he said I'm making this little trough for the time when, uh, you aI's older 80 I can let you eat out of it uh because uh you are alwlliYs, you know, treat grandpa as if he belong in the pigs sty rather than at our table. End of the story. It just ends like this and you of course, you can just imagine yourself, that the parents are, you know, thinking it OVal' and changing their wlIiYs toward the old man. And so you know our, I think our uh foltnore is really full of tin;r little, t:l.n;r 11tUo stories like those. Larry Hesterl (Prompting her memory. ) 111'11. BandyI That's interesting, you know, this kind of churoh. yard story, I think you probably have them everywhere, but uh, in Europe we alWlIiYlI have the uh, not alWlIiYlI, but in many areas of Europe you have the idea for instence there ie the hour of the dead between twelve and one 0' clock and I still would bet you that uh, you would find for instance in the rural villege which is a ra.ther large villege which is a rather large community, of was a.t that tim, more than a thousand people in it. That at the time I was small you wouldn't have gotten ~one to pass over the church yard at night, although it was suppose to be a very holy place; because 11. this part in the Blaok Forrest where my father's family oomes from is uh, one of the areas that was very relatively early Christianised. It's the area inwhioh st. Bonifaoe, by the w8;f, was missioning here was settling at lake Constenoe, you know, as a kind of permenently, ,based and from there he Christenised the whole area and uh, since I mentioned st. Boniface, there is uh, uh, there is uh, i )( somewhere recorded in the, in the uh, church hietory that he actually so-- one who orginally uh, who is responsible for the Christmas Tree. Because uh, when Christenis8d that area which was made up of Alamans and Swabens, you know, real, really Tutonic tribes very much engraved into the kind of Nordic mythology. lIe realized that they had a very strong affiliation with the oak tree. The oak tree being the symbol of the Nordic gods, and as'u a matter of fact the residence, the crown of the oak tree was suppose to be the residence of the Nordic. While at that time heathen gods and so he, while found it very diffioult to provide uh the uh, well, the uh, converts he was trying to make with something to whioh they ~hey could heng their ideas because they were so used to think of the world as bUng represented by an oak with the roots being the underworld, you know, with the inbetween and the orown is the real world, and the crown is what we would oall ~robably the heaven, the residenoe of the residence of the gods. Andmeo he started out cutting down all those oak trees, you know, around which they would assemble, where they would have their uh, 12. their worship, that would eimple1y uh, make people very ferious and he encountered a great deal of hostility; so the records indioate uh, that he then chose another tree that was plentiful in that region as the sembol for the Christian God and he chose the furr tree and this, this is how uh, supposidly you know, the Christmas tree wee started. And it seems that it did get lost uh, there for quite a number80f centuries and was re- so to s,eak rediscovered uh, something during the early nineteenth oentury. I, I think some of, of the people like the brother Brimm that uh, brother Grimm, that collected stories, you know, hit upon something like that and revived it again. And uh, in these ruralareaa for instenoe where my father's femily comes from, you do have a X Christmas tree for the animals. And you go out into the middle of the woods and you selected a large tree that stands a little bit alone and then uh, you stick oandles upon it and then you bring thii!gs that animals likes, likes, like apples and hay for the raindeer and nuts for the squarls and so on. And you heap ths.t all around the Christmas tree ,and then you light all the candles and then you go away and you of course, what you can do is you can hide and see all the animals come out. Larry Hesterl Have you heard that the animals on, I think midnight on christmas eve 13. Mrs. Bandy I If Oh yea, there're suppose to talk, yeo. ( laughter) they never talked while I was around, yea, yea, we went out and tried you soe and of courso they wouldn't talk and we would tell ourselves as ohildren, you know, thlt it was just that we didn't understand it, you know, and that uh that we weren't close enough or so. As a matter of faot, when I was very small, the woods were just absolutely inbabited by elves and by dwarfs and so on, you know; the blaok forrest is a very speotUlar kind of landscape and there are areas inwhiob it is very dark and it I S rooky and there a lot of soft green moss, you know, and I've seen dozens of those little things, you know, with little red pointed caps and kind of outfits I oan't alw8.fs S8.f sol blured with laughter). Yea, I saw them yea in turn of couroe, and uh, my imagination as 0. ohild was just running wild with me and I oome home and tell my mother about things and of oouroe ohe would take it as aboolutely as the gos siple truth, and we would talk about all thoBe dwarfs living around. Larry HeBte"C'1 Well did they ever tell you, uh, did you ever leave a bowl of milk or something outside Mrs. Bandn Yea, what you do is you take acorns and you take acorns out XII of that little cap you know, and you put the milk in there and xTiI -~.,,-= XIV' -~"~""" you leave that out and the next d~ it's gone and then, then have they have drunk it and of oourse they haven't, it's was some kind of animal. But you really, you really believe it or you leave oookieB for them or so. Or for snakes for instenoe, snakes be uh, uh, do have quite, quite some s~ so in, I think, our folklore and uh, there is for instenoe the belief that you oan have suoh a thing ae a house snake. Uh, there muet be some kind of anoient symbolism that believes that snakes were sacred animals beoause you are suppose to leave them a little bowl of milk, and of oourse most of our snakes you see, are not poisonious. X\! We have only one poisonlous snake at homel and if you harm the ~ snake, if you kill it, then you know ill fate will befall your house. By the way, there is a story that deals with a snakel I think it is oalled the "Wbite Snake", ub , ub, something s~ilar and uh, the story goes something like uh, there was a very wise king uh, who wes alw~s so Solomonic in his deoisions, that people admired him very muoh and uh, and at meal time every evening he would have his most trusted servent uh, servent bring 5:!'!'la oovered dish and then he would send everybody out and then he uh, you know, after awhile he would oall them again and the oovered dish would be oarried aw~y by his most trusted servent. And so K~/' one day the moet trusted eervent deoided to look under the oovered . dish and he sees a white snake there prepared, you know, for eating, I guess the way you do rattlesnake, and he decides to try a little bit of it and so he cuts off a tiDlf little piece and he eats it 15. and andl:'puts the lid back and brings it to the king. And uh the moment after he swollowed this piece of snake he could understand uh, the animals talking and he could listen in to their conversations and eo he came, you know, up-bout , upon the escret of the king and why he could make suoh wise deoisione, becauee friend animals would be witnesses to orime and so on and he would uh, he would know about it and uh, so while this was going on, uh, the queen I think, wae taking off a ring or something like that and putting it on her dresser and a bird flew in and picked up a ring and took it_outside and pl~ed with it in the tree, uh, the birds that do these kinds of things I think are similar to your j~sl they like glittery things and you oan really get them you know, to pick them up. So they have a repetation of biling uh, rather.bad thieves and the bird dropped the ring and it falls into the, into the river and the fish picks, you know, ewollows it and swims aw~ in the, in the river with it. And the queen can't find her ring and so the only person that oould possibly have taken it is this most tuusted servent beoause he was around at that time. lnd he s~s no, he uh hasn't taken it, but the queen insist that he must have taken it and so he is expelled from the court. And he deoides he will uh, go and he will uh, prove hiB innocents. And so he packs his bundle and he leaves and while he uh, was walking through the woods, uh trying to find who ever it was that stole the ring, he heard t~ birds tell that they had stolen the ring, or one of them had stolen the ring and had dropped it into, into the river and that a fish had swollowed it. /,: (. (' 16. So he goes back to the river and he asks the fieherman to go and uh, start fishing uh, for a special kind of fishl I think the birds told what kind of fisb it was. And so they did find the fishes and he took the fisb back to the COUFt of the king and you know, told tbem to prepare dinner for the king and in the stomach of one of the fish they found the ring and his innocents was proo.en and he was re-instated and his position of most trusted servent. Larry Hesterl ( prompting her memory.) Did you, let me aek a question, in your area, did you bave particular spots where fairies gathered, you might have a fairy hill or caves or things lIrs. BandyI Yea, there was you know, there are places in the woods in the Black Forrest and I think you probably find them everywhere, where,mushrooms would grow in a ringI And mushrooms growing in a ring is an indication of where what the Irish would call the .littlepeople, you know, fairies, and dwarfs. We have fairies and dwarfs and they are two different kinds of, of things. Oh, and we have trolls too and the trolls are tbe very bad dwarfs. They are the really in the mischief makers and tbe dwarfs are the good, uh, the good part of that and they are very industrious. They are for instenoe the ones who keep the stones, you know, diamonds and, and preoiouB stones and gold uh, polished under17. ground and so and so on. They are very in-industrious 11ttle peoplel and then you have the fairies and the fairies uh, uh, are uh, wall thay ara inhabitents of of the traes and of flowers or they represent trees and flo~re plants, and they're very delicate cn8.tures. You can look through fairies tor illetence, you kIlO'l1, for they are very very delicate, very different from the Irish fairies. Larry Heeter! Do they live in the underworld? Mrs. Bandy! Uh, no they are according to our particular folklore they live in uh, they live in flowers and treee. They are, they are uh, well you can Bee them but they are a little bit sjmilar to proba~ly ghost. You can Bee ghont too, but they are, you know, they are not really there, so the, are very delicate creatures. While the dwarfe and trolle are you know, really ( laugh ). Larry Hester! Are there any casee where people have gone to liva with them? Mrs. Bandy! No, no, that uh, I have not, not in our folklore,now if you go further up in Germany, up toward east were the Venton, uh, wera living and the uh, Venton are a tribe, that 1e aven pre-tutonic. 18. That where uh, where uh, were litterly eliminated by the Saxby the Saxon when they uh, they started in the great migration you know, I don't know several thousand years before Christ. The were litterly elimated by them, but thete are still old vendie fa-tales around and there you will find in those you'll find people living with fairies or people living with uh, with spirits of the moor. We have for instence swamp gat, swamp gas, little blue flames you see uh, you have those in the swampy areas at home too, and we call them IlUsh, which means really an, an air-o-liteJ Because it leads you into into the moor and you loose your life. becauBe you go under,and they are suppose to be the soule of the of the condemed, uh that come up again and mislead you also to uh, to die. So there are uh, in those folktales in those folklore tales, you do have people who go and live with un, with the dwarfs, with the elves, or with those uh, well spirits of, of the condemed, but not in our own area. Larry Hesterl I've heard that uh Mrs. BandyI With the exception of onel Now that you have mentioned it, there is the "Womans Say" which is ll. lake in the Black Forrest, and it is suppose to be, it's suppose to be inhabited by spirits. And uh, they on occasion would take people to live with them, to live in the lake that were persecuted uh, you know, that couldn't 19. go on living in the outBide community. And I think what it is really connected to is the mid-evil law of what we call "Vogalvi- hi", namely you were expelled from your community if you were proven guilty and being expelled from your comnronity ueually ment cert~in death you see, because nobody was allowed to help you, ae a matter of fact everybody who met you could uh, kill you. Uh, and what I think probably happened on occasion people would come back to their community and so the story developed, you know, because usually you wouldn't survive this being expelled, uh that it must have been the epirits of the lake that, that kept them. This is how I explain itl I don't know whether it is true or not. And there are quite a number of of stories I don't recall in detail about the spirits of of that particular lake lit's called the'i' loIummel Lake. Larry Hesterl The 10. mum? Mrs BandyI Yea, 10. m- mummel, pronounced Mummel, TOU know, it makes, means the secret lake really, and it's, it's still very, I mean uh, now a road goes passed it, 0. highway goes passes it. But it's still in a relatively seoluded area of the Blac~Forrest. But this is the only time that I recall in our area that uh, that people have gone and lived with spirits. Now when you go further up towards the sea for instence, then you find very often uh, 20. that people would have disappeared into the sea and would lived in under, you know, in under sea castles with the spirits of the sea. As a matter cf fact we have a lot of folksongs that have to do with this kind of thing, we have one'-,uh, that's, lMit a minute what is it called1 It's called "the Bueatiful Lillefey", that's her name and the story goes that she's the daughter of, it's un song, it's an old old lOng, folk.ong. Larry Hesterl Do you remember how it goes? Mrs. BandyI Yea, I do. Larry Hesterl Will you sing it? Mrs. BandyI Yea, I can sing it if you don't mind; goes something like this, uh, wait a minute....... I have to think a~out it. It's SO long I have sang it, give me a minute uh urn it will come back to me, let me, let me first tell you the story, the story is this bueatiful Lillefey was the daughter of a king, and uh the, uh the, uh, spirit of the waters, which we call the "Vasselman", which 16 the male part, counter part to 21. the uh, uh, to the mermaid, but you see there are sweet water mermaide and salt water mermaide. So this is a sweet water,' the Vaeselman is a sweet, a male sweetwater mermaid, merman oX' what ever. Uh comes and ask for her hand and uh the king give it to her because he is afraid of the magical powers of the waterman. And he uh, also knows that the water can cause floods and so on so. So the waterman is, ie the repreeenative of a power that can really damage him, so the girl ill married to him. And uh, goee and lives with him underwater and then underwater she oan alwlls hear the church belle, and of oourse all these creatures, dwarfs and fairies, and so forth,are heathens, you see they are not Christians. Ans she hears the ohuroh bells underwater and she has this longing to go to ohurch and so she begs for years. She begs the waterman and he finally lets her go. And uh, so she goes up there and she enjoys herself very muoh and she goes to ohurch every morning and one morning ae IIlte leaves ohuroh "there ie the waterman, I and he aek her to oome bll.Ok and ehe doesn' t '~ want to go baok, and so he uses the old trick of the children you know, he tells, her, well your ohildren are crying for you. And she desides she will have to Sll goodbye to the world for ever. And she goes back with him to her children. And I now remember it. It goes something like this and I'm not a very good singer. Let me see . Sung in German .......... Now that's where 'goes and he ask for her hand. And now let me see how it goes on, !' don't remember how it goes on while she's underneath Larry Hesterl Can you translate that section there'? Mrs BandYI Yea, I canl it s~s uh, (Sung in German ) It.' s uh, "the wild wl\terman a goes a courting." ( Sung in German ) "In the castle atove the lake~ ( Sung in German ) " He wants to have the kings daughter. ( Sung in German ) " The bueatiful young Lillefey, whioh is her name. UR, now uh ( Spoken in German) I've forgotten it, uh how it goes onl but he tells her, don't yo~ want to come down with me to the to the castle under the sea. And he makes her all these promises and the father gives her to him. And then the next verse which I don't recell uh, hO"lit rhymes, is that she uh she can hear the churoh bells and that fills her so much with longing that she keeps begging him to let her go and he lets her go for a visit. verse I oan't remember and that i8 (pronounced in German) And now let me see, the last And it alw~s ends with that and that when she came out of the ohuroh and I said, "ausdie Kirche" uh, (German epoken again); say in the cll8tle above the uh, the lake uh, (German Spoken again), there stood the wild waterman uh, before her, before the young beautiful Lillefay. And then the oonvera(l.tion goeo on and I uh, and to and fro- and I don't remember that either, but uh, the uh, the, it enda with the fact that he tells her "ult( German apoken here), that's the only line I remember. And it means, "your ohildren are, uh, orying for you beatiful young Lillefay." You know, she gives in and she goes back down with him so this is, you know, there are thousands, just thousands songs like that. Or songs about uh, about uh love that has to overoome all types of trileB and tribulationa you know,and and in the long run, they get together and uh, oh you know, very romantic songs about the uh, for instenoe the two uh, two uh, uh, well the prince and the princesB, Konigekind, is really the ohildren cf of the king. And the story is exactly the same as that of Hera and LeAnder in Greek Mythology. And, but, it's a folksong and it'B this young prince that loves this young princess and they are separated by a la~ge body of water and they can't get together beoause of that large body of watel'. And they are longing for eaoh other so muoh that he deoides he would swim over to her. And uh, so she says yeB, OO!/le and I will light a. candle at night and I will sit and wait for you. UH, uh, then uh, there is this uh, this figure which is called a eine Falschenonne, whioh means uh, uh, deoeiving nun really, nuns !/lust not have been very much liked in that area, and she over heard this and so she deoides, you know, as nuna who 24. are against all that has to do supposedly with uh, love and so on, She decides that she will you know, spoil uh, the thing for them and so she blows out the oandle and the young prinoe of course uh, uh, drowns. End of the sad story. You know there are songs uh, songs like that; oh there is one for instenoe about uhl;bueatiful Ann of Tahoe who is loved by a man and uh, uh they can't get together and he has to pass uh, through uh, uh, the armies of enemies and he has to ov~r oome all you know, all kinds of things before he finally gets together with her and bueatiful Ann of Tahoe, finally she is mine. You know, songs like those that's just full of it. But ws are talking about uh, about uh, cemetaries and 'I.Ih the particular cemetary that I told you about, the uh, the dead are suppose to come up between twelve and one o'clock, and they danoe ~ kind of uh, what are these dances that uh, where you dance in a circle and you have a special word for it. We oall it a Heigen, which alwll,ys means its dancing in a circle with joined hands. Well this is how they dance between twelve and and one O'clock, and of course they scare the heck out of you aQYwll,y, across the churchyard. ( Discussion of first names in her family and some looal history. ) The church was in construction, one of the of the masons slew him ( st. Tental l with a uh, a with an ax, and it was at the spot at which, the spot still standing has a little ohapel on it and it is at the spot close to where the uh~ churoh now stands 25. and where the churchyard ie, and at the very spot where he was ~illed, where his blood uh, did flow in to the ground, a well came up. And supposedly this well helps you uh, to uh, to heal eye, eye illnesses and people still go there and you know, uh, come with littles bottles and they take the water with them. And I don't know whether it helps or not and it is also suppose to be very good water and it 1B. I-"ve, I've tried itoh many occasions beoause you know, the the they uh, now uh, well I don't know, yea, yea, they, theyce.ptured the well you know and it runs now out at a little of a little uh, uh, well really a little pipe, and you can and there's a little cup on a chain, a tiny little cup, it's a pewter cup on a chain. And it runs into a little wooden trough, and you canjust you know, uh, uh, take it out of there and you oan drink it and it's very pure water. It's it's very very nice water and it's suppose to give you peace of mind and some which I think you get just by drigking it beoause you know, there i8 no oh~or- no ohlorine in it and nothing. Uh, and uh, you know, supposedly whene there are holy spots like that, Unholy things can't go on so the two things are controdioting each other really in the folk and the folklore there. Larry Hester: I'M, I taking you away from your list here? Mrs. Bandy: No, no, that's quite all right, we have quite a bit o-fit. (continued disoussion of friends and 1000.1 oharaoters.) 26. Larry HesterI Um, you were telling me something about there were some legends er, some superstitions related to the moon. (I cited a few exemples for her.) Mrs Bandyl Yea, I ub, the uh, the moon the moon thing we have too. We for instence in tha.t area ub, believe that when the moon has a halo, that this is an indication that bad weather is uh, coming up and we also have the same kind of superstitution, I thin~ that you have with a pink sky in the morning, it means the weather is changing for the worse and rain is ccming and uh, a red sky at night, sheppards delight. So uh, very similar to what uh, to what you have. People aho ill this area very much believe in the powerof the moon and so for instence, you never do a~thing that you we.nt to increase, you never handle while the moon is docreasing. So uh, if you go about it from their point of view then for instence you would never harvest at at a uh, is it? Waning moon when the moon decreases, but you would do it, you know, when the moon increoses. UR, you would never cut your hair for instance you know, if you wanted to have a full head of hair, then you wou~d not cut it. When the moon was uh decreasing uh, you would not uh, oh for instance you were not suppose to operate you know, on on a during that time. Urn, uh a cut down a~thing froDI which you know from which you expect something plenty so uh, if you out , if you 27. have to go out and cut wood, uh, for for fire wood or so, then do it when the moon is increE,sing rather than decreasing, We have these kind of of ieas als~n the ideal that uh at full moon is is a time a full moon by the way and then again new moonis a time at which activityof spirits goes and 60 on you know, go, go up really. The full moon is supposed to influenoe partie of the moon rather is ssss- suppose to influence particularly women in their you know, in their in their, life cycle and soon so for instence it's supposedto be better if uh, if you want a healthy child to concieve it, you know, while the moon ie increasing rather the other around and so OUt These kind kind of things really have uh, really have quite n bit. Let me SBe what else is connected with them, with the moon. (she goes on to explain there are no wearwolf or beer stories in her area). So wearwolf and that kind of thing we don't have. We have quite & number of stories in whioh the devil play, plays a great role. And .,the devil is alwayS Q.,t witted by aoulsboGY alss who is uh, sho is small and it a pitty that I really don't remember those beoause they are particularly nice. These devid stories, they are usually short and concise. And the devil is out to oatch a poor soul and thinks you know, thoee dumb peasants you can trick them. Uh, uh, to get your quota of souls and so he's out to catch himself a dumb peasant and it's always the dumb peasant that you, know, that out wits him and then gets a pot of gold in the bargin or so, you know, really tricks him. Larry Hesterl Talk about devil, I remember the one about uh, uh, (I tell the story about the man who cought the devils nose in a crack in the door and later has his wife to pull her dress and bend over to soare off the devil again.) lIrs. BandyI Yea, that story I knew. Uh, I had, I had forgotten itl we had stories lkie that to whom that reminds me, we also have stories where death is being tricked and uh, you probably know some of those. I remember one in particular, and it is called I think the story is celled, "GitV' is.. kind of uh, of uh of distence relative to whom you are related by marriage. And it's very strange that uh, very friquently, uhyou calluh, you call uh, lets see tradgio incidence in the life of men you oallby, by this kind of name. "Gifidotood", for instence brother hunger and so on. Uh, the story varies that uh, that uh, there is a young man who showed a particularly good gift uh, to uh, to be a surg'n and a a doctor. It's a very very old story, must oome from you know, some where around the fourteenth, fifteenth uh, century and uh, uh, death immediately realizes you know, in the way in which he treats his pacients uh, that this is a very very gifted perBonl and so he uh, uh, decides that uh, uhgift like that should really get as muoh support as possiule and so he appears to the to the young man and tells him that he will uh, that he will make a bargin with him, that he will allow him for his powersto heal 29. and his ability to heal, uh, ea, to develope to their fullest, provided that he does not uh, uh, interfer when he uh, really has to take a person, because he is under, he death, is under the jurisdiction of God and when the young man says, well how do I know that and he uh, uh, cousin death said, well if I stand un the right hand side of a persons bed when the person is very ill, then you know I have to take him. If I stand on the left hand side, then you know that you can go on. So urn, years and years go bye and he's very successful and uh then the king's daughter falls very very ill and uh theuh, man uh, the doctor is asked to help her and he heals her becaUse he sees the devi- uh, uh , the uh, death standing on the left hand side of the bed.: And he the king is so gratefUl and uh, she is so taken with him, that she is ghlen to him as his wife. Years pass by and he gets very very famious and very very rich and uh, as doctors do today, because his such a tremendiously good doctor and then his wife falls ill again and she becomes very very ill and uh, he tries all that he knows of in one night when he comes in, uh, he sees uh, death standing on the right hand side of the bed and uh, so he takes his wife whom he loves very much and he turns her over and he puts her feet where her head where ( laughter) head were was and vice-versa. So now death is on the left hand side of her. ( ) I And so death having made h'~at bargin, but oan't let her uh, go, but he says to the surgen that he should oome with him. And he takes him a long long way down and they come into a big cave and in the big cave are burning thousands and millions of oandles and all thes candles are burning and some of them are you know, 30. just little poole of of cold wax on the floof and others are very small. And he leads him uh to 0, candle that, one candle that is very tall and one candle that is just on the point of going out. And he sl\s the tall oandle, he pointe to the tall. candle and he says that was the candle of your life and the little candle that's just flurting on the verge of going out, that was tho candle of your wife's life. But since you changed the will ot God, now the Hiles in the candle are changed. AiId"so",\1hi this is your candle now, and at this moment the candle flutters out and he falls to the"ground and is dead. So it doesn't uh it doesn't always work, but we haval!) these stories of death(.and, and, the davil uh trick and it usually, it usually uh peasants that are vary capable of tricking the devil. And by the way, we have uh we gave the Saying that uh tailors are not allowed into hell. So there are no tailors in hell and the story is not following that uh, uh, little, uh, little tailor, uh, journeyman, was uh dourning aorOBS the oountry aide, uh, looking for a new job and he met uh, and it waa on a Sunday morning and evel'Ybody was going to churoh, you know, very nio~ly drsssed, but the little tailor, instead of going to ohurch oontinues hiB journey, whioh is very bad, beoauBe he'e supposed to go the church on Sunday. So he meetB the dev~l and wants to t~{e him to hell beoauss uh, uh, he did not go to church as he was B UppOBO to.. And BO, uh, And so uh the tailor SGB, "YeB I have no objectlLons, especially 31. since ncne of you he,ve clothes and shoes." Beoause the devil you know looked uh well, uh, he appears in different in different wlIlfs. But, uh, tM'. let's say, his orignal form is that his is oovered with blaok hair allover and he bas a buman faoe. But he has, uh, two horns and then he has, ub, normal hands but he bas uh feet like a goat, you know. Larry Hesterl Oh, yea. Mrs. Bandy~ Yea, goat, gcat feet, that's how he lools. Well in tbis, in tbie, in he in this fashion, he appear.ed to the tailor and the little tailor said~ well uh yes, of oourse, I'll go with you, you know, I'll really be useful down there, because I can sewall your c~othesV And so, uh, said finally go to hell and there all tbese other little devils around and the little tailor slllfs well let me start, you know, working right aw~. So let me tape measure, and he takes out his yard stiok with whiob he measured. AndiJinstead of measuring thy devils', rou know, he really bits them until they are blue and black all over and pretends that this is measuring 'em. And then he says he bae to cut the oloth and uh,ub, so that he oan ~h so that he can uh saw th~ir clothes, ahd he cuts off all their tails, you know, with the exception of the tail of the big devil, the ruler devil. Andnthen he goes on doing nasty things to them. Like he starts sewing to blue their ears~o their ears to their heads and things like that. And so all the little devils ara crying and they go to the big deVil, uh, uh, who is supposed to be Luoifer, whioh is, you know, the fallen angel. And they oomplain about it and Luoifer throws uh the little tailor out of hell and seys don't you!ever dare oome in back. you know. None of my devils has a little tail any longer -- none of them I So tailors are not uh allowed in uh hell so the can do a lot more things other people do. Tailors, by the wey, are uh supposed to be, yea tailors are suppose to ve1Y timid and scarey , you,' know, and un-assuming uh people probably because uh being a tailor, at least uhtil you were a meste~was probably a trade which didn't bring you much money and prObably didn't keep you fed to well, and there are a lot of storieS('arourtd him which uh tell of out-witting forces that:; are stronger than they., For instance, giants and so on by, by the use of their wit they are su-supposed to be also very smart people and there ~e storios about uh, uh, tailo~s for instence that uh, oh there~ one story about a little tailor who uh, was incapable of bei~ afraid and uh, he is being taught to uh, know what fear is, by a number of you know, tremendious adventures he has to go through. So tailors are somewhat aesnder of of folklore tales that always SS. tell that uh, although he is a small guyand oan't really do anything speotioular beoause of his physioal abilities, he always you know, has a lot of gray matter there yea, that helps him to overoome difficulties. l.Ioteifs I Had difficulty in locating, probably olose to J222.1.3 Column of light deoends from heaven upon ohosen people. II F981 Extraordinary death of animal. (could be related to) F421;1.2 Ghost harms horse. F4734 Poltergust makes noise. III DI813.1.6 Dream warns of death. IV B733.2.1 miI Owl howling indicates death. ][ V 1.1341 Death prophised A2427.3 Why owl howls at night. E545.2 Dead predict death. VI E324 Dead childs friendly return to parents. CFP230 Dead child returns to stop weeping. E361 Return from the dead to stop weeping. ( Ireland, England, Spain, China, India, Gseenland) VII Wooden Bowl (could not l.cate ) VIII E587.5 Ghost walk at midnight IX Orgine of Christmas Tree ( oould not locate ) X Christmas Tree for the Animals of the forest ( oould not locate) XI B251.1.2 Animals speak to one another on Christmas Eve. XII H607.4 Cup of milk symbolic offering to unwanted saint. XIII B593.1 Snake as house spirit. J512.7.1 Keeps house with other animals. XIV H607.4 Cup of milk offering to unwanted saint. xv K8000 Killing certain animal is forbidded XVI A2478 Continual eating of certain animal. N478.l Sacret meat eating betraYed. XVII F2l6 Fairies live in forest F2l7 Congergating place of fairies F236.l.l Fairies dress in red cloths F239.4.3 Fairt is tiny F456 Mine spirits keeps precious stones polished. XVIII K839.2 Victum lured into approaching by false token. XIX Q55l.3.5 Punishment, transformed into other object. XX B82.l.l Merman demands princess. C7l3.3 TabuI wife of merman staying too long at home (on visit) l 1 1 1 1 I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I A PDF transcript exists for this recording. Please contact an archivist for access. Professor John Burrison founded the Atlanta Folklore Archive Project in 1967 at Georgia State University. He trained undergraduates and graduate students enrolled in his folklore curriculum to conduct oral history interviews. Students interviewed men, women, and children of various demographics in Georgia and across the southeast on crafts, storytelling, music, religion, rural life, and traditions. As archivists, we acknowledge our role as stewards of information, which places us inaposition to choose how individuals and organizations are represented and described in our archives. We are not neutral, andbias isreflected in our descriptions, whichmay not convey the racist or offensive aspects of collection materialsaccurately.Archivists make mistakes and might use poor judgment.We often re-use language used by the former owners and creators, which provides context but also includes bias and prejudices of the time it was created.Additionally,our work to use reparative languagewhereLibrary of Congress subject termsareinaccurate and obsolete isongoing. Kenan Research Center welcomes feedback and questions regarding our archival descriptions. If you encounter harmful, offensive, or insensitive terminology or description please let us know by emailingreference@atlantahistorycenter.com. Your comments are essential to our work to create inclusive and thoughtful description.