Charlotte English interview with Gertie Maude McCoy, Marion Lovett, and Nancy Beaver

The John Burrison Georgia Folklore Archive recordings contains unedited versions of all interviews. Some material may contain descriptions of violence, offensive language, or negative stereotypes reflecting the culture or language of a particular period or place. There are instances of racist language and description, particularly in regards to African Americans. These items are presented as part of the historical record. This project is a repository for the stories, accounts, and memories of those who chose to share their experiences for educational purposes. The viewpoints expressed in this project do not necessarily represent the viewpoints of the Atlanta History Center or any of its officers, agents, employees, or volunteers. The Atlanta History Center makes no warranty as to the accuracy or completeness of any information contained in the interviews and expressly disclaims any liability therefore. If you believe you are the copyright holder of any of the content published in this collection and do not want it publicly available, please contact the Kenan Research Center at the Atlanta History Center at 404-814-4040 or reference@atlantahistorycenter.com. Gertie Maude McCoy starts this recording with a discusses about her daughter Rosas pregnancy and the possible sex of the child. She then gives examples of superstitions used to tell the sex of a fetus, how to properly ready a woman for labor, and how to raise a child. At 16:30, McCoy recalls her childhood in Douglas, Georgia, living and working with her family on a cotton plantation. She specifically tells a story about burning her feet and her father treating the wound with black grease. At 23:20, McCoy claims that the spirit of her dead husband visits her to provide advice and information about the future of family members. Starting at 31:00, Nancy Beavers describes her pregnancy cravings for starch and white dirt. She explains where she acquires the substances and her mothers disapproval, despite feeling the same cravings herself when pregnant. Gertie Maude Hayes (1913-1994) was born in Douglas, Georgia, where her family lived and worked on a cotton plantation until she moved to Atlanta with her husband, Alfred McCoy, in 1938. After their move, they had eight children, four girls and four boys. Marion Lovett was born and raised in Atlanta, Georgia. She later lived in South Atlanta with her husband. She experienced poor health but had eleven children. Nancy Beavers (1949-2011) was born and raised in Atlanta, Georgia. She graduated from Harper High School, where she met her husband. She had her first child at 19 years old. 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("" \ -!\ [': C~): ('I \ (' (CJ(O \~ , (interview ( ..J, " ' ,\... _.' .~ '-\(jl \\' .'/ ,I ) summary) 'll' VI '(,(Il.I\( ,: I "- {d i:' ',( i \ t ", lH,I{I,' \(1 , ."'/ \' '.,- ~\ \:JV~\ . ') " ~ V) II"" "){) "",t li{ {OC\ I') oLx)~ rt .( (' \ \", ~\.A~)i, \ c~, I N\0 \i 'c. ",l ",j\, \"1,,.).,"'. \'" I hct a('0(') h u" (:\(1/. i) I'l'l:(~ (');)1')\\1\(\' Ci) \) \'(~\'( 1;\ (' I') .,_ n.,' ..... _ .. J ..,j _.,f (, - Ht<, 'V"I('(A\)t' \ C~~A\ \'\'j CA\)\)Ot l,e ~ ~,t (J~) lV\OVl Ie) \ \)'.']\11 'i,' di\'( (;Inc) .':;.~() t, l' v, dU\ i )~, q') Y\'\' t 'PI ('~'\, V\C,!'1 e~ " 2 Recording issues 'I C('en 1,:)\ I/'i'( '\~ I" ) (background i()"~ , ' noise, echo, ~, static, etc.) Subject Information Enter information about the content of the obiect here: Subject Date Exact Date (yyyy-mm-dd) (use only one) Year (if only the year is known) Circa (4 digit year) Year Span From To Subject Who Last Name F\(' \'/0-\ , !-O,j {'I "F \ I First Name MI C, .e{\J', c, fv\ (AI>t:) (' " k f . ' "-\,~. \ 'II> .I_" ......) Subject Location Country USV\ State County Town AHo.rrCo> Local Name Subject What AHC Cataloger will complete this for you. (LOC subject headinos only) Keywords Burrison, John Personal names 3 Corporate names Geographic locations I\!J\\"c\''",y,\,C\ l C,PI Topics ~)\(,('\ ::;Lt',Uo n,s, Q,V\~);){J !-oII~ Ii f'e A-((",(IN" , Ax"'V,!'\t'f;'-{\v) f);'(S,< "Ie " ( , 4 ;,: \ ~.' , ~j' . II)!I d~ r~( ()jl~' ' I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I A Colledtion of Some of the Superstitions and Beliefs Related to Pregnancy Folklore 300 Georgia State University December 1, 1969 by Charlotte English TABLE OF CONTENTS Introduction 1 Informants 3 Mrs. McCoy 4 Mrs. Lovett 9 Mrs. Beavers 13 Bibliography 16 INTRODUCTION Overall, I feel that my experiences have been producti~ as beginning collection endeavors. They have been beneficial to me as an exposure to a type of problem-I,)olving in research of which I was not aware. In reviewing literature and the guide by Goldstein prior to collection, I realized that due to the type of problem I had selected, namely superstitions and beliefs, that it would be difficult for my end product to even approach my initial expectations. Superstitions and beliefs, I feel, could best be elicited from the Informant much more accurately by seeing them in practice. Even though I see the necessity for d6~enting such information on tape, it celltainly cramps one's style as to quantity from a cross-section of Informants. Time wise I was unable to do any in depth follow-up which I feel could reveal valuable information if a serious stUdy of superstitions was being done in this area. Such follow-up would be, not only with the same informants, but also with their suggested sources. Ideally, to get them together so they could "prime each other's pumps" would probably be most productive. I feel that it would be very difficult to collect a full reperlbory of beliefs because an Informant can't spontaneously think of all such day-to-day beliefs. My interview technique was a combination of directive and non-directive. At the time I did not want to make it too structured. In retrospect, how- I ever, I feel I could have been more directive without being offensive or as pushy as I felt I was being. 1. Informants Mrs. Maude McCoy 625 Oliver street. Atlanta, Georgia Phone: 874-8511 N.W. Apt. 1 Fulton County 2. Mrs. Marian Lovett 215 Fletcher street S.W. Atlanta, Georgia Fulton County 3. Mrs. Nancy Beavers 1523 Kerry Drive N.W. Apt. 865 Atlanta, Georgia Fulton County Phone: 355-7706 Collector Miss Charlotte English 2345 Palmour Drive N.E. Apt. 18 Atlanta, Georgia Fulton County Phone: 261-4408 MRS. M6COY Mrs. Gertie Maude McCoy is a 56 year old Negro lady. She was born Douglas, Georgia in 1913 where she lived until" the year before '39". Her in.'..". tact family lived on a "white man's" farm where apparently their entire family worked picking cotton and doing other chores. When Mrs. McCoy was about 21 years ol~ she and her husband moved to Atlanta and began their family which now totals four girls and four boys. 6J few years ago Mr. McCoy died leaving Mrs. McCoy to maintain the household for their youngest daughter on her salary as a worker in a chicken factory. Mrs. McCoy is a rather small built lady who appears to lead a rather relaxed, unsophisticated and homey life. She seems to be prOUd of her family, even though two of her sons have been in chain gangs. They seem to have a closely knit family with her children, especially the girls, highly valuing their mothe~s opinion. I met Mrs. McCoy through her 22 year old daughter, Rosa, who was attending the prenatal clinic a,t Grady Memorial Hospital. While talking with Rosa in clinic one Thursday, I discovered that her mother, in a "folk" way, was taking care of her at home and I indicated an interest in this. The next day Rosa called and asked me if I could come to visit her mother the next day. So on Saturday, October 25, 1969, about 5 p.m. I arrived at a red brick apartment bUilding off North Avenue in Atlanta, Fulton County, Georgia. , H / Their two bedroom apartment had older, less expensive but comfortable furnishings except for the stereo and color T.V. which appeared to be new. The air was filled with the usual apartment noises of music, crying babies and roaring cars. The entire family was friendly and out-going. Her two sons and two daughters moved in and out of the living room during the interview but Mrs. McCoy stayed in her seat at the end of the sofa from the time I arrivedti 1\ :L 1C<l, Oh, I hope so. Does it do anything to the baby? Might make him have the rash. Rosa was telling me that you thought she would have a little girl. So what makes you think that she might have a little girl? I, I don't know, don;t ~now. I just belive it is. Are there any signs that you know of that you can get an idea? c: Mrs. M.. : C: Mrs. M. : C: Mrs. M. : C: Mrs. M. : Well, I haven't noticed yet. :You a doctor .... he could tell just gonna have by the way I walked. walk yet. know, .1 used to have exactly what I was I havent noticed her You haven't noticed her walk? Four How many little girls did you have? You had more little boys .. No, half and half. (pause) Well, have you ever heard of any other signs that peoPle have known? I haven't thought of that but I sure do hope it's a little girl. c: Mrs. M. : C: Mrs. M. : C: Mrs. M.: Like ....... c: That you could tell whether it was going to be a girl or a boy? Mrs. M.: Yes, theys said if its moves a lot its a little boy and if its dudn't its a little girl. Cause theys was always sorry. (Laughing .... missed) The little boys, they, you lmow, is always fast; and they really are. All mine's been. c: Even after they're born. Mrs. M.: Yeh, that's right. Sure is. c: Now tell me again about raising her arms up above her head? Mrs. M.: Mrs. M.: c: Mrs. M.: c: Rosa: Mrs. M.: Oh, that would be lak hanging out clothes or anything that would wrap the cord around the baby's neck. It's very highly er um .... She always, always told me don't looks (Unclear) And so lak sitting on the door step, its .... causes, er, having ... something like, not crazy but like urn convergence - like. Yeh, um hum. And so they say, afterwards you would have the piles after you have the baby. Hemorroids, Yeh. Omit 28 - 31 They say that after, er, before the baby came and don't put on no men folks clothes. That would do something to yer mind cause I have seen that. Men's shirts .'.,. like that. Afterwards it done something to her mind. To the girl that was carrying the baby or to the baby? The girl that was carrying the baby. After She had had it, she seem to er lose her mind or something. She would wear her husband's shirts and we would tell her not do such things, but she went on 'head and d:Ut it. So I always gets at her (Pointing to Rosa) when she does. I try to keep her outta his coat and jacket and things like that. Sometimes, I don't know. Sometimes that's the easiest thing though, isn't it? It's the biggest thing. (Laughing) So all I know is that I come along and that, that if they do just 'xactly as I say, they will have a easy time. Now my daughter she had a easy time .... all three of them ... 'even the one born right down there on this same street, the third house. Omit 43 - 63 7 c: Let me ask you something else now, with little children, you know like when they are little, is there anything you're suppose to do with raising your children? Omit to 70 C: Now I've heard something about not cutting a little boy's hair until he got to be a year old because it might keep him from being strong. Have you ever hea.rd? .... Mrs. M.: c: Mrs. M. : C: Mrs. M. : C: Mrs. M.: c: Mrs. M. : C: Mrs. M. : C: Mrs. M.: Yeh, that, that's right, that, you know, that woulds keep him from talking, you know; not talking at the right time, after he gets a year old. After he get a year old he suppose to talk. So if you cut his hair before he gets old, might throw him back a few months late. I see, does cutting his hair effect anything else. No, no. Just his speech. Just his speech. Let me ask you something else; when you were growing up, did you ever hear any stories or anything like this? (Mrs. M. shaking head no.) Were there any stories that your friends told you, or older people in the community when you lived in Douglas County? Yes, uh, I lived in Douglas County. I, uh, always heard, um, if he couldn't talk; if you cut his hair and he didn't talk by the time he was two years old, kill a calf, uh, or get his, uh, liver while warm and hit him in the mouth with it. And then he'd be able to talk? Hm hum (nodding yes) Did you ever see any of these things happen? Uh, no, not exactly. I guess, a lot of times if they do it right the first time, they don't ha.ve to worry about a cure, do they. Thats right. / () MARION LOVETT Marion Lovett is a large friendly, easy-going, 35 year old Negro lady who recently gave birth to her eleventh child. Marion has severe asthma and pulmonary problems which occasionally require hospitilization but this doesn't hinder her good nature. She lives in a small gray frame house in South Atlanta with her husband and eleven children all of who she is very proud. She was born and grew up in Atlanta where she attended high school. She is very aware of what is going on around her not only locally in the community but also from a current events point of view nationally. My relationship with Marion has been warm and friendly over the last year but always within the confines of Grady Memorial Hospital. When I approached her about some of the beliefs and superstitions we had discussed earlier Whe was eager to collect them for me but I sensed some hesitation on her part at having me visit her home. For this reason I only have a list that she compiled while at home and gave to me when she came to clinic on Friday, November 14, 1969. 8. Marion's attitude about these superstitions is indicated by the opening phrase "It is said ... " of each one. This observation was reinforced by her comments after she gave them to me. As mentioned in the biographical sketch, Marion has severe asthma. She pointed this out in reference to number \<l\ccJ Gl ~ by saying that she' -&, lot more about how to cure asthma but she didn't include them because people might wonder why, if she knew so many cures, did she still have it. In reference to numbers 8 and 9 she knew people who had tried them but they didn't work. As for number 1, I Imow for a fact that her new infant had thrash but she brought her to the clinic rather than using the proposed home remedy)dispite her husbands encouragement to use it. CORRESPONDING Some superstitions or varients can be found for some of these in Frank C. Brown's work, Vol. VI, Popular Beliefs and Superstitions from North Carolina. Under the sections: I Birth, Infancy, Childhood and II Human Body, Folk Medicine. 1. (No.394) To cure a baby's thrash wash its mouth out with a man's urine. 2. (No.822) Plum bark will cure asthma. 3. (No.992) It is thought certain people have the power to "talk"fire out of a burn. (No.993) To cure a burn many old people look a,t the burn, repeat some mysterious words to themselves, and then blow the burn. They repeat this about three times and the burn is supposed to get well. (N0'910) Gum berries are good for high blood pressure. II None could be found for numbers four, five, six, seven, or nine. !,;L (1 ) Frank C. Brown. 'l1le Frank C. Brown Collection of North Carolina Folklore, Vol. VI, Popular Beliefs and Superstitions from North Carolina::--(Durham, N.C.) pp. 64, 119, 138, 129, respectively. i, MRS. NANCY BEAVERS Mrs. Nancy Beavers is a 20 year old Negro girl who recently delivered a nine pound ten once infant. She was born, grew up, and presently resides in Atlanta.' Soon after she was graduated from Harper High School, she married her current boy friend. She has done clerk-like work in a local industry but stopped due to pregnancy. She is now separated from her husband but has very close ties with her mother and family. Nancy expressed, from what I have been able to find out, a typical feeling about white dirt, red dirt and startch eating. It I s just a "craving." I knew Nancy while she was a patient in the prenatal clinic at Grady Memorial Hospital. She did not tell me about her dirt eating until after delivery; so I interviewed her on the day of her discharge from the hospital, November 27, 1969. Due to my being unaccustomed to recording in such a small area, I had some initial difficulty with the recorder. This however, presented no real problem. starts at 325 c: Now, why don't you just tell me, during your pregnancy, when was the first time you, that you started craving the white dirt. N: It was about at the last part of my pregnancy and ... C: During the last part of your pregnancy. What about early in your pregnancy? N: Uh, I didn't have any cravin' for anything. It just started about the last part, that, uh, I wanted starch, dirt and different things .... funny tasting and different things. C: How did you know that you wanted the starch? N: I just had, uh, taste for it. C: Was it up here or down here? (Indicating head and stomach.) N: In my stomach. C: Yeh, and where did you get it? N: I bought the starch from the store and bought the dirt from the, uh, vegetable man. He usually come by and he sell it by the bag. For about 25 cents you can get a bag of dirt. (Unclear) ... but I didn't like the dirt so hot. C: How come? N: It just had, uh tingle taste behind it, but starch I liked it. And the white, uh, the red dirt but the white dirt didn't taste so good. C: Do you know of any of your friends who have eaten either dirt or starch? N: I have a friend who she ate the starch. She had to have about three boxes of starch a day. c: Oh ... N: All through her pregnancy. But, uh, I usually eat 'bout half a box a day. Till my mother found it and thaw it away. And when she thawed it away, I usually, uh, tried to eat some dirt to take the place of the starch. And I bought some Milk of Magnesia to take the place of the dirt and the starch. So I usually eat a block of Milk of Magnesia. c: Hm .. did you eat this instead of regular food or did you eat regular food, too? N: I ate the regular food too; but I was on a diet at the time. C: Yeh. N: So. .. I don't know .. It was just took the place of it .... and the Milk of Magnesia I use to had to go to the store for about 3 or 4 blocks of it. (Laughing) but I couldn't have the tast for starch or dirt. C: Do you have any younger broghers or sisters? N: I have three older brothers. C: Oh, so do you know if your mother ate starch or dirt when she was pregnant? N: She said she ate it, uh, through her pregnancy and I as};: her where she first found out about the starch; and she said she just had a taste for it so she start eatin' it. C: Just had a taste for it ... N: She said that when she went for her check ups every week, she used to have a box of starch in her pocket-book and the doctor use to tell her to stop eatin' starch and she kept on eatin' it anyway. So, uh, she say it don't do anything but make it harder for you, plus you blood would draw up. C: Did you ever feel tired during your pregnancy? N: Mostly at the end of it. That when I start feeling tired. Dh, the load start gettin' heavy. (Laughing Mrs. Beavers repeated one of the superstitions which I had previously collected and then our discussion went into health aspects, not folk beliefs of pregnancy. /5 BIBLIOGRAPHY 1. Brown, Frank C. The Frank C. Brown Collection of North Carolina Folklore. Vol. VI, Popular Beliefs and Superstitions from North Carolina. Durham, N.C.: Duke University Press, 1961. 2. Brunvand, Jan Harold. The Study of American Folklore, An Introduction. New York: W.W. Norton and Company, Inc. 1968. 3. Burrison, John. Folklore 300, Georgia State University. Class notes October 10, 27, 21, 1969. 16 4. Goldstein, Kennth ers in Folklore. 1964. S. A Guide for Field WorkLondon: Herbert Jenkins, .:: r.ELEA3E * By letting us collect your traditions-stories, songs, music, sayings, riddles, or beliefs of earlier days--you hsve made a valuable contribution to preserving and understanding nouthern history, and especially the history and way of life of your cownunity. Because you have given unselfishly of your time to do this, the Georgia Folklore Archives, whose representatives are dedicated to preserving these truditions, wants to protect your rights to this material by guaranteeing th~r: :lit \'li11 not be used for unscrupulous commercial profits. By signing thls .i;,~.~t, you are giving us permission to use this material for educational pur,)o~." 30 that people who are interested can understand how life 'las in the old-til:""y days. Your material will probably not be printed or issued on a record, but :.f it is, and you don't want your name to be used, say so--we respect your right to privacy. Thank you for the time you have snimportant part of American life. that you want to send along to us so given to help us record a heritage that fu If you remember any more old-timey things that it will always be preserved, write to: Georgia Folklore Archives c/o Prof. John Burrison Department of English 33 Gilmer nt., S.E. Atlanta, Georgia 30303 Signed Addreas For Ga. Flo Archives:_..._ /)J;+ ne,s~'; Loi+nt"ss ~ A PDF transcript exists for this recording. Please contact an archivist for access. Professor John Burrison founded the Atlanta Folklore Archive Project in 1967 at Georgia State University. He trained undergraduates and graduate students enrolled in his folklore curriculum to conduct oral history interviews. 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