The John Burrison Georgia Folklore Archive recordings contains unedited versions of all interviews. Some material may contain descriptions of violence, offensive language, or negative stereotypes reflecting the culture or language of a particular period or place. There are instances of racist language and description, particularly in regards to African Americans. These items are presented as part of the historical record. This project is a repository for the stories, accounts, and memories of those who chose to share their experiences for educational purposes. The viewpoints expressed in this project do not necessarily represent the viewpoints of the Atlanta History Center or any of its officers, agents, employees, or volunteers. The Atlanta History Center makes no warranty as to the accuracy or completeness of any information contained in the interviews and expressly disclaims any liability therefore. If you believe you are the copyright holder of any of the content published in this collection and do not want it publicly available, please contact the Kenan Research Center at the Atlanta History Center at 404-814-4040 or reference@atlantahistorycenter.com.
Note: Racial slurs are used in the story at 22:09. This recording begins with Jerry Moore recalling two folktales; one about a site where enslaved persons were murdered during the Civil War, and a second about a steep crater valley in Northern Utah. Next at 03:07, he recalls two legends about a gold and a silver mine in Wyoming. Then at 05:34 he recalls a folktale about a battle between the Shoshone and Crow tribes atop a rock later known as the Crowheart Butte in Wyoming. At 14:13 William Bargeron talks about Confederate soldiers who quartered in his grandmothers home and stole her livestock during the Civil War. Next at 16:53, he tells a story about a Masonic church his grandfather prevented from being burnt down. Then he tells a story about a haunted swamp. To conclude the interview, at 22:09 Bargon recalls a racist ghost story about an African American cemetery in Atlanta, Georgia.
Jerry Moore (1941- ), William Baregrons son-in-law, was born in Casper, Wyoming and moved to Conley, Georgia, in 1964. Additional biographical information has not been determined.
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(LOC subiect headinos only) Keywords Burrison, John Personal names See subject who for additional names . '. " Corporate names Geographic locations Topics j\.IiAI' < i\ h' ," ". '., (..,~,,\ \tIl,' ,3 FOLKLORE 301-THE FOLKTALE COLLECTING PROJECT by Jack F. Farris SPRING QUARTER 1969 INFORMANTS: Jerry L. Moore W. E. Bargeron 1\ My first informant was introduced to me by a mutual friend who had lived near my informant and had heard some of his stories. This storyteller's name is Jerry L. Moore, and his wife's name is Mary. The Moore's live at 3941 Rockcrest Court, Conley, Georgia. They built their own home, which is in a nice subdivision in the southernmost portion of De Ka1b County. The subdivision's exact location is one block west of the point where Bou1dercrest and Panthersvi11e Roads cross. Jerry is originally from Casper, Wyoming, which partially accounts for the type of stories that he told me. He was exposed to a good deal of Indian legend and Western folklore. His father was in the drilling end of the oil busines~, and most of Jerry's life was spent in rural country. Jerry Moore has been in Atlanta for the past five years and is now 28 years old. He is the Service Manager for the International Harvester Corporation. His wife, Mary, is expecting their first child in July of this year. Jerry is a great lover of the out-of-doors and enjoys hunting and fishing. While Jerry Moore was telling stories and recording them, his father-inlaw, Mr. William E. Bargeron, came in the back door of the house. We were sitting in the kitchen, and the recorder was on. Mr. Bargeron became fascinated when he found out what we were recording. He stood off to the side silently until he noticed Jerry had gotten tired, then he stepped in for his chance at the game. He was very willing to talk into the microphone. Mr. Bargeron lQ1ew several ghost stories and stories about haunted places. Mr. Bargeron is in his fifties and was born and reared close to the Atlanta area. He works at the Lockheed-Georgia Company; exactly what he does, I never found out. He reminded me of a second generation Southern aristocrat with such sayings as, "Grandmother, she lived at a little place known as Ha, ',':).:0'....... iV' II bersham. She was a Reed from Virginia, and he was aP.,~e~~, his people came from Carolina." He mentioned that his grandfather had been an officer in the Confederate Army. Mr. Bargeron now lives at 617 Blake Avenue, S. E., Atlanta, Georgia. His phone number is 627-0884. 001 This particular folktale was told to me by a family friend, Mrs. Gooch. She states that at the junction of Bou1dercrest and Constitution is the site where approximately 25 slaves were killed during the Civil War and that now you can go by this intersection when there is a full moon and you can hear the chains rattlin' in the woods. And at this present time there's houses built all around this clump of woods, but there's no house at this particular site. So whether there is any truth to it or not remains to be seen. 026 Some guy made a speech at the college my sister was going to. This particular folktale is supposed to be in Northern Utah, and what it is is a big hole in the ground similar to a box canyon, except it's closed on all four sides, and the wind currents around this particular area are tremendous and you can go to the edge of this hole in the ground and look over the side and in the bottom it's foggy or dusty or something and uh the bottom is covered with small mounds of dirt. It looks like a prairie dog town, that's what it resembles. And uh they've tried to put he1iocopters in this uh hole, but the wind currents are so bad they tried to put down there and uh nobody's ever got down to the bottom because it's so deep, the walls are straight up and down and uh actually I think they're afraid to go into it. And what they believe is that there's small people living in this ,hole. Anyway to kinda put a little strength behind this theory, on the top of this rim they have found a mummified man who stood 32 inches tall; and they don't know, of course, they put the carbide test to it ." uh carbon test to it and it come out to be something like 5,000 years old. So whether or not there's any truth to that somebody will find out I guess sooner or later. 075 Uh, this is a legend. Out by west of Casper, Wyoming there's an old uh small town called Lost Cabin. And the way it got it's name back in the oh about 1860's there were two partners came from the East, Boston I think it was, and they came out here prospecting for gold. And they found gold according to the legend, and so they both had sweethearts back home. And they struck it rich so they decided one would go back East and pick up their would-be brides and bring 'em back there and they'd marry 'em, they'd have this gold and they'd start cattle ranching. So one of the partners went back East and he got the two women and he came back. Of course, at this time it took 8 months to make the trip and when he got back out to the site where the cabin was, there was no cabin, no sign of his partner, nothing. And they searched and searched and searched and they never found his partner, and they couldn't find the gold mine, and this town was called Lost Cabin. People even today go out there looking for that crazy mine. I heard that by just living out there I guess. I don't know where I heard that from. That's a small town. I think the town is on a railroad. The site where the cabin was supposed to be is a few miles away. 122 Then there's another one up in the hills or mountains east of the Teetons (?), Jackson Lake, there's supposed to be another lost silver min~ up there, and whether or not it's silver or gold anyway this is supposed to have been a man from the East found it and went back East, of course, went to Cheyenne to stake the claim on it, and uh he got killed in a brawl in a bar someplace, but he registered this mine and nobody can ever find it. But my uncle was elk hunting up in there, and he was looking through his scope, and he said right in back of that elk was a real big hole in the hill looked like it might have been an old mine or some sort of excavation. And he shot this elk and dressed it and took it out and he decided to go back up there and look for that hole again 'cause he'd heard the same thing. And he searched that thing for two days and never did even see that hole again. Whether the wind was blowing just right and moving the tree and brush away from that hole so he could see it when he was looking through the scope on his rifle, he don't know, but he looked for two days, but he couldn't find that hole again. 150 Up by Du Boise, Wyoming there's a big, flat tabletop rock. It's a butte. They call 'em buttes out there. And legend has it that the Shoshone and the Crow had been at war for say 10 years, and they got to the point where they damn near killed off all their warriors. And the tribes were dwindling, and they were tired of war so the two chiefs decided that they would have a battle and where they'd have this battle would be on top of this butte so both tribes could see it, and the tribe that won would be the winners and the other tribe would have to leave the territory and give up so many horses and all this other sort of garbage. So they had their battle and the Shoshone chief won. And to show that he'd killed the other chief, so he got his heart and held it up so that all the other tribes could see it. And the name of that butte today is Crow Heart Butte. 180 This old timer was a guide up in the mountains of Wyoming. This old boy came from New York, and the Old Timer said, "What do ya wanta shoot?" And the New Yorker said he wanted to get him a grizzley ,d5,ar"~;1. (Old Timer) "Say that's fine, but one thing ya gotta know." (New Yorker) He said, "What's that?" (Old Timer) He said, "Ya gotta know how to handle a bare if you run on to him on one of these narrow mountain trails where it's straight up on one side and straight down on the other." The New Yorker says, "Yea, what is it?" (Old Timer) "Well, do you know what to do if you run into one in that situation?" (New Yorker) "No, what?" (Old Timer) "Well, I tell you, you take a hand full of shit and throw it into his face, and you run like hell." The New Yorker said, "What'd ya mean, you throw a handful of shit in his face?" (Old Timer) "That's what I mean." The New Yorker said, "Well, where am I gonna get this shit?" (Old Timer) He said, "Don't worry, you run into a bare on that little narrow trail, and it'll be there." 200 My uncle's from for a while lived down in the backwoods of Arkansas. They're real proud of their Bluetick coon dogs. And uh this one old boy that lived up the road had two fine, nice hounds. And he just bragged on 'em all the time. Of course, back when my uncle was a young man, they always had alot of trouble with cougars and panthers or whatever they want to call 'em. So my uncle and his two brothers got 'em an old nail keg and they're about what, 20 gallons, and they took a leather thong and put it through the lead on one end and tied a knot in it and pulled it out and they took some resin, you know just regular old resin, had a cake of resin. And they soaked this string down real good and you could pull on that string and it'd just squeel and hollar like a damn panther. You ever done that? You can do it. Well so these two boys, that old boy so fond of his damn dog, they gonna fix him. So they got out in the woods. This went on for about two weeks. They get in the woods and they'd start pulling those damn strings and the old boy'd 248 call his dogs in 'cause he didn't want to lose his dogs. So the kids kept telling him, you know we saw that damn dog uh that damn mountain lion, cougar or panther, and boy it's big, BIG. Ever seen one that big? Well, the old man just taking it all in 'cause his imagination, he can just see that old son of a bitch being about 10 foot tall. So one night they're out hunting and got the little drum out and went out in the woods and started pullin' the string. And, of course, the dogs know the kids, and they were just mean enough, they called Old Blue, I guess that's the dog's name, called this dog up to 'em. And they got ahold and took this pocket knife and slit this dog's throat and then laid him in the road where the old man'd find him. And the old man found that dog, and he took the other dog and penned him up and never went hunting for a coon after that. He wouldn't go in the damn woods. That old drum out there pulling on that string. I've gotta real good friend, Katherine, who lives in Estes Park, Colorado, and she's a geologist, a member of geologist's Who's Who and one of the first geology graduates of MIT. And uh, she swears and be damned she found a perfect oil fault, if you know anything about geology, oil is in a good place to suspect in a rock formation called a fault where the land has shifted and it creates a pocket where old vegetable matter and oil would settle. This is a good place to start and ya can take your geology crew, your seismograph crews out there and go test and all this sort of crap and then drill a well. Of course, drilling wells is just by chance anyway, you know. But this is one of the things they look for. And she's a pretty good geologist, and she and a couple of her friends were on a field trip in western Nebraska, and she says she knows damn well she knows where she was out in the sticks. And when it was getting dark, and they run across this fault, it wasn't very big or very long, about a half mile long, but it was perfect, just what they needed for this to make some oil exposition. So it was getting dark, and shit, she said she had a map and everything, she knew where she was. So they went back to the motel. The next morning she got up and went back to the same location, and she couldn't find it. And ya know she spent two weeks looking for that fault and never could find it. Back to the same, she was sure it was the same place and the fault was gone. And she went back there for two weeks looking that country over trying to find it. She never did find. And she had these other two people with her' that saw it. She went back and they couldn't find it to save their buls. The only thing I could think of, western Nebraska is pretty sandy. There's some sand dunes out there. Only thing I could think of, it filled up with sand, but still it'd be kinda hard to believe. There coulda been an earth tremor of some sort, and it moved again 'cause that's all a fault is where a rock formation's shifted. It could a shifted again because the first thing she said, she said well the other two people saw it too, ya know. You'd have to meet Katherine to enjoy her. She's about she wears cowboy boots, she talks worst than I do, cusses worst I should say, and she's just as skinny as a rail and just as witty. And if you know any Western history, you better be right on the facts 'cause she'll put ya down, I mean right now. She got a library in her cabin up at Estes, you wouldn't believe. I got in an argument over Fort Laramie one night. I told her it was never walled. She says it was walled. (He) "No, it wasn't either." (She) "By God, it was walled." Boy, here goes Katherine across this library down this row of books, and she grabbed this book and jerked it out and thumbs through the pages and, "Right there, see, right there, such and such says walled." I said, "Right, that's right, Katherine. But then it belonged to the Great Western Fur Company, it wasn't a military fort. And it was walled then. When it was a military fort it wasn't walled." Hell, it was just sitting out on the bank of the North Platt (?) River. No walls in a thousand miles. All the movies you see Fort Laramie is walled. But it never was walled. Never has been. It was never a stockade. 321 I guess has more history being the section that was early founded whenever (W.E. Bargeron) this, they came worked up the coast down from Carolina and up from Savannah and up through there. And this little town there, I can't recall it's name right now, out of Sylvania, and they tell the story about this minister that came in and wanted to spend the night there. And it seemed like there was an awful lot of gambling, wickedness and uh . going on in this little town. And they refused him lodging for the night. So as he walked out of the little town there, little settlement, he took off his shoes and dusted the dust from them and his feet and all and put a curse on that town. And from that day till this the only remains of that little town is one chimley and the foundation of one house. That's all, it's never built back. It just went into nothing. " ' 353 During the Civil War my people lived in southeast Georgia there. My grandmother, she lived at uh little place known as Habersham. She was a Reed from Virginia, and he was a Pommell, his people came from Carolina. And they came in and they settled down there. Well, Grandad was an officer in the Confederate Army. Whenever Sherman marched to the sea there they I've heard her tell me how they took their livestock, and if they had a good-looking horse or something they would go out and rub axle grease on it and rub dirt into it where it'd look like the horse was diseased 'cause that Nuthiner wouldn't 409 bother them. So they came through their home there and she said they had a little pet dog there that wasn't any good for anything and said this dettachment of soldiers came up, they went in the house, they took every bit of the foodstuff that they had and uh so as they turned to go one officer said is this all you've got? She said yes and he said well you take this sack of meal. And she said that she was so mad that she turned around and threw it at him. She realized then that she could have got shot or something else, but she didn't. But what they had done, all those people had done, they had taken their hogs and drove 'em into the swaumps and uh all, but this little dog, they had a yard full of chickens there and she said that dog was absolutely no good fer anything and she said the Union soldier called that dog to him and petted him for a few minutes there and had that dog catch every doggone chicken there was in that yard. In this same community there,there was a little church and we had an occasion to try to (get the history of the church), the reason we wrote up the history on this church, the church had burned uh and so they had built a new church and they wanted to dedicate it and they wanted to give the history along with it. So in the course of this, I remember seeing this before the old church burned, but I never did pay any particular significance to it. There had the uh square coluumes in front of this church, I think uh let's see there was one, two, three, let's see there was six across the front, (?). On one of 'em there was a Masonic emblem that somebody had taken and uh burnt into that with a piece of iron and this was an old yellow pine post that was standing there and so one of the older Masons there, we were talking to him, and he said that his father told a story that they didn't have a meeting hall so they used the church for their meeting place. So one of the Masons burnt this onto this post there. Well, you know they burned and destroyed just about everything in the world. So whenever, Sherman right then they were fixing to set a torch to that church because they were using it for a refugee headquarters whatnot. And he saw that Masonic emblem burnt into that post, his orders were not to touch that building. Well, it just so happens that Sherman was a Mason, and he wasn't about to destroy the temple. 458 They told this tale for many, many years about this little section of swaump there uh it's uh known as Beaver Dam Swaump there that it was haunted by uh, and they said that there was a lynching party there and this and ever since then that you can go there at certain times of the night and you could see this man hanging from this tree. Well down in this swaump down there, there's cypress and uh a10t of this uh Spanish Moss and this tale went on for years and years and years and sometimes they'd see it and sometimes they wouldn't. So finally about 25 years back one of the young fellows he decided he'd go in there and uh see what was going on. And uh so what they found is this swaump fire was coming up out of this particular place at certain times this glow and against the Spanish Moss, it looked exactly like a body hanging from that tree there. (Collector) And I'll bet those people for hundreds of years believed it was somebody hanging there. (Mr. Bargeron) That's right, that's absolutely right. (Jerry Moore) That's some old log or decomposed material. (Mr. Bargeron) That's right. (Jerry Moore) It's just spontaneous combustion. Don't they call it the wi11-0, -the-wisp? Especially when it is real foggy. (Mr. Bargeron) Yea,'yes they'oa11 it that. 494 My grandfather told me one tale when he was a boy. There was this friend (Jerry Moore) of his who was a neighbor. I don't know, it wasn I t too swaumpy just low land, they calls it bogs I guess. He said this old boy riding this pretty fast horse down in this lowland. And one of these, you know that stuff moves, a moving fog or looked liked it was a moving fog. And this kid swears and be damned that this big old light got up behind, behind that horse and he whipped that horse and damn near killed him running home. The heat from the horse and moving through the fog might draw might pull it to it. 508 I guess any of these things if you look long enough have a logical (W.E. Bargeron)explanation to 'em, but I guess human beings being what they are and as they are. 513 I was living out by, well, let's see I was seven, six, years old whenever we moved here to De Kalb County. And we moved on what was know as the old Moore place right up the road there. And the Nigras always told a tale about uh the uh the cemeteries being hanted. Well, I guess being young, you're sus~ptable to these type things and you listen to 'em and you kinda o believe it. So the Hardins lived up the road about a mile and a half, two miles from where we did. So one Sunday afternoon real late uh I decided I would go up there. Well, I stayed a little later than I really should have stayed, and it was good and dark when I come back and I have to go by this old Nigra cemetery there. And uh you passed it's the old Hopal Cemetery sitting right back over there (pointing to the south). Well, they'd always told me, all the Nigras and all that that place was hanted and and you could just go by there anytime of night that you wanted to and you could see all kinda ghosts. Well, being a kid likely you was real suseptable to that so I got about half way through that thing and I noticed this the moon was just shining there a little bit and I noticed this white object there moving. And I didn't know whether to run, stand still or what to do. So I started to go back and it went that way same way I was going. Then I started back the other way, I wouldn't run, I didn't whether this was the thing to do or whether to run or what. So the road kinda curved around by it so finally I kept edging on so just about the time I got around the cemetery then I broke into a good fast run. Guess what happened an old cow said "Mooooo." They originally claimed that it was haunted because there was a Nigra that was lynched and he was buried in this cemetery. And they claim that he came back and that you could see him in a white sheet sitting out on the edge of his grave there at night. I guess these things like I say being young and impressionable about these things, and it doesn't take much until you begin to believe 'em. The validity of this kind of stuff is all heresay, and I guess there's something in its telling that grows from time to time like a similar to what I had that somebody had. Dh but really I have never seen one. I wouldn't say that there isn't such a thing as supernatural because I guess the older I get the more I not particularly believe it, but I mean I haven't lived through uh through the years that I have seen the development of the aerospace technology, and uh see television come into being and radio from its infancy. (End) The stories that were collected did not appear in Antti Aarne's and Stith Thompson's The Types of the Folktale. Although none of the stories collected could be tale typed, I did find many interesting motifs for these tales. Most of these stories seem to be in the category of legends in that some of the stories attempt to explain an extraordinary happening in a historical manner, such as the disappearance of a town or a gold mine, cabin and miner. A good example of an explanatory or etiological legend is the story about Crow Heart Butte (150) and possibly, the first story about the slave's chains rattling resulting in houses not being built on a certain site (001). Further proof may be shown that these stories have most of the charateristics found in legends. Some of the tales gathered contain the legendary creatures referred to as ghosts and spirits. Other stories collected are characteristic of the Memorat, that is to say, supernatural legends of the short type which function to validate beliefs and legends of returning spirits of the dead. Almost all of the following motifs were found in the work by Ernest W. Baughman, Type and Motif-Index of the Folktales of England and North America. The first story contains motifs of ghost sounds, specifically E 402.1.4, invisab1e ghost jingles chains and E 274(a), ghost haunts scene of unjust execution. The second, third and fourth stories ending at 150 on the tape are interesting legends, but could not be tale typed; I found no specific motifs. The stories beginning at 075 and 122 seem to be typical Western legends about lost gold or silver mines and abandoned towns. The tale beginning at 150 is a good example of the type of story that to tells how a name was givenAa place. The story explains how a big, flat tab1etop rock, a butte, earned its name. The next tale was a joke or tall tale about getting away from a grizzly bear if you are confronted by him on,a mountain trail. The stories lasting from 200 to 320 were real fascinating stories, but I was unable to locate anything similar to these tales in any of the available references. At this point the father-in-law, W. E. Bargeron, begins to talk and te11& several good ghost stories. The story starting at 321 is a short explanation of why a town died and was never rebuilt. Possible motifs would be M411.14.1(a), priest curses town after it banishes him for refusing to act as witness to untrue testimony or M474, land is cursed. From 353 to 458 is some local history about the South and some of the conditions during the Civil War, especially when General Sherman made his "march to the sea." The sort of events reported in the first part was typical allover the South during the war. He intimated that the Southern people would rather destroy their own belongings than have the Union soldiers get them. There are four motifs that could be connected to the next tale which begins at 458. The first might be E 274(a), ghost haunts scene of unjust execution; this motif was also seen in the very first tale reported. Other motifs are E 421.3, luminous ghost; E 530.1,0.1(b), ghost-like shape of man seen for short time; and E 530.1.3, ghost light haunts burial spot. After a little open discussion, Jerry Moore tells a tale while sitting at the other end of the table away from the microphone. This turns out to be a good story with two definitely related motifs from Baughman, E 272.2, ghost rides behind rider on horse or E 332.3.1, ghost rides on horseback with rider. In the last story beginning on 513, there is much background and introduction to the story, and the story has several different motifs relating to ghosts. The motifs tell about the ghosts in the cemetery, E 587, ghosts walk at certain times and E 587.3, ghosts walk from curfew to cockcrow. The storyteller then relates something he saw through the motif E 530.1.3, ghost light haunts burial spot. In the last part of his story, Mr. Bargeron tells why the cemetery was supposed to be haunted, i.e., E 334.2.1, ghost of murdered person haunts burial spot; E 333, bodies of dead seen in graveyard lying on ground; and E 574(ba), ghost of woman in white. The end of the storytelling was Mr. Bargeron's personal philosopical explanation for the existance of supernatural beings.
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Professor John Burrison founded the Atlanta Folklore Archive Project in 1967 at Georgia State University. He trained undergraduates and graduate students enrolled in his folklore curriculum to conduct oral history interviews. Students interviewed men, women, and children of various demographics in Georgia and across the southeast on crafts, storytelling, music, religion, rural life, and traditions.
As archivists, we acknowledge our role as stewards of information, which places us inaposition to choose how individuals and organizations are represented and described in our archives. We are not neutral, andbias isreflected in our descriptions, whichmay not convey the racist or offensive aspects of collection materialsaccurately.Archivists make mistakes and might use poor judgment.We often re-use language used by the former owners and creators, which provides context but also includes bias and prejudices of the time it was created.Additionally,our work to use reparative languagewhereLibrary of Congress subject termsareinaccurate and obsolete isongoing. Kenan Research Center welcomes feedback and questions regarding our archival descriptions. If you encounter harmful, offensive, or insensitive terminology or description please let us know by emailingreference@atlantahistorycenter.com. Your comments are essential to our work to create inclusive and thoughtful description.