Mary Evans and Becky Simpson interview with George W. Jackson and Irene Jackson

The John Burrison Georgia Folklore Archive recordings contains unedited versions of all interviews. Some material may contain descriptions of violence, offensive language, or negative stereotypes reflecting the culture or language of a particular period or place. There are instances of racist language and description, particularly in regards to African Americans. These items are presented as part of the historical record. This project is a repository for the stories, accounts, and memories of those who chose to share their experiences for educational purposes. The viewpoints expressed in this project do not necessarily represent the viewpoints of the Atlanta History Center or any of its officers, agents, employees, or volunteers. The Atlanta History Center makes no warranty as to the accuracy or completeness of any information contained in the interviews and expressly disclaims any liability therefore. If you believe you are the copyright holder of any of the content published in this collection and do not want it publicly available, please contact the Kenan Research Center at the Atlanta History Center at 404-814-4040 or reference@atlantahistorycenter.com. This recording starts with George W. Jackson reminiscing about growing up around music. His first instrument was a five-string banjo, followed by the violin, mandolin, and guitar; he learned to play mostly by ear and his father was a fiddler himself. Jackson performed with folk artists Fate Norris, Bert Landers, Bill Chitwood, Gid Tanner, and Riley Puckett. Also, he once made a guitar. At 3:45 Jackson plays the following songs on his banjo, sometimes also singing and accompanied by his wife Irene Jackson: Shortinin Bread, Old Joe Clark, Hen Cackle, Shell Be Coming Round the Mountain, Johny Henry, and When the Roses Bloom. At 15:40 they play a recording of Little Old Lady Down in New Orleans by Grand Pa Jones and an unnamed song with Earl Scruggs. At 20:20 Jackson switches to the violin, playing More Gal, Chinese Rag, Down Yonder, and John Henry. At 25:50 Jackson recalls a fiddling convention and competition in Chattanooga, Tennessee, where he won second place. Next he plays a Jimmy Rogers Blues song, followed by Red Wing (sometimes called "Cannon Ball), Buffalo, Red, and Mule River Train (which they both sings along to). George Jackson (1901-1971) was born in Sugar Valley, Georgia, to Ted (1870-1925) and Mary Jackson (1871-1945). He married Irene Smith (1901-?) and they had one daughter, Mary Ruth Stepp (1922-1988). He worked as a farmer and lived in Haralson and then Dalton, Georgia. Additional biographical information has not been determined. 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Jackson's speci8.1 hobby is groHing gourds of all shapes and sizes) so he took great pleasure in shO\~ing us the gouPd vines and some gourds made into deltcorative objects. He even gave us tHo gOUl'ds 1olh1ch ape shaped like "I'later dippers". Nr. ,T8.ckson pl8.yed both his banjo and violin for us and reminisced about the "olden times" Hhen he use to play 8.11 the time. Because of his age and the fact that he had been in the hospital I~ith pneumonia; he ran out of energy and g8.ve out of hreath e8.sily.J so He purposely did not try to pump more songs from him. \ve feel that Hhat you will heQr on the tape is a good exronple of Mr. Jackson'S musical abilities. Our trip to Dalton and the visit with the Jacksons could not have been more delightful. NRE An interview with banjo player George W. Jackson and his wife, Irene, at 'bheir home on Ridge Road, Rt. 2, Dalton, Georgia, on No.y 9, 1969 conduoted by Nary Evans and Bocky Simpson. Mary: Could you tell us first vlhen you first got you:~ first playing instrument and Hhen you learned to play it? George \'I. Jaokson: Hell, I uh, I lf8.S rai'led up Hith music. 1'ly daddy l'1aS a fiddler 8,nd uh I've been used to it all my life. I first begin \'lith a five string'banja. \'Jell, I I decided r Nanted to take on somethine; else 130 I took the violin and I learned it. So them I learned the mandon.n, and then guitar D,nd I don't knoH Hhat else. (he laughs) 1'lost all the string music that comes along, but nOl'l, just 1101-1 at this time 1 1m not in no practice for playing music cause I don't hardly fool vlith it unless somebody comes in and we get pla,v-ing. If I got somebody to play with me, well then I I like it alright, but just myself I I donlt do too 1Ilell. (laughs) vlell nON, I I believe this lady wants to lmO\; about Hhen I first started. vias thD.t \-ihat you l'lanted? \'lell, that was, uh, let's see now, that, when I first started it would have been about 1919 and so .. Becky: HOH old \'Iere you? Oh, about nineteen ye9,rs old. (laughs) know some of it by note and some of it I of it just by ear and so Becky: Did your father play? So I picked it up, em, I don't so I I got the most I'm em, yes mali], yea he I'laS fiddler'. (laughs) One of the old-time fiddlers. Well anYl.lay, He are going to try to, em, see what we can do her0 in just a little bit and l1e'11 tall, some more then. 1'1ary: Could you tell us som0thing,em, about playing I-lith Fate Norris? Ohl yes, Hell yea. I ll1ayed l1ith Fate NOY'ris, Bert Landers ('I), Bill Chitwood, em Gid 'raDner, Riley Pnckett, all them 01d011.s. vJell most alllem are de'J.d nOH.~nd uh course I'm getting pretty old. (laughs) But 1'1'1 ll'bill alive. (laughs) I'm thankful for that. (laughs) ml 1Ilell, l;e'11, He'll see Hhat 1IIC can do h0re in a little bit. Imade this one (banjo) I made it over. (laughs) and ~16 are going to playa tune here. Becky: Did you ever make a guitar? Oh yea, I made a guitar. I msde one. I don't have it nm;. I sold it. Kept it for a longtime. I never did fool Hith it. My \-rife, she, she don't play nuthin, uh, Hell, I believe she do playa little on the harmal'dica (hal'rrJonica), but thAt I S about all. (laughs) I, uh, these ladies vran'b to hear a little on the five strinr; banj a. If you'll hold this "mike" for me honey, I'll see Hhat I call do. (He begins to play.) Nov, Hhat do you vlant to hear? Mary: You play us your favorites. Vlel1, I don 't kn01v nuthin but the old stuff. Mary: That's Hhat we want. ( The first song is "Shortnin Broad" according to his "rife.) (':Ie clap.) Thank you. Becky: Thatls good. I'fuat was that tune you just played? ( He begins to play the next song, "Old Joe C1apk" and during the song he sings some words that we could not lmderstand.) ( We clap.) Becky: That's wonderful. Oh , that \-'asn't much. Becky: Nicel That';-, uh (?) ( The third tlme is "Hen Cackle".) Yooo! (He clap.) ( He laughs. ( The fourth tune is "She III Be Coming 'Round The MOlmtain'; )ill's Tackson sings. ) She I 11 be coming round the mountain. She III be coming round the mountain. Shelll be coming round the mountain when she comes. (Together) She l l1 be driving six \-Ihite horses I-Ihen she comes. She'll be driving six v,hite hOloses Hhen she comes. :3he ' ll be c1rivinp; six \-/hite hopses, f\hel.ll be (Jrivin,,; six v/hite horses. She III be driving six white h01'ses ,Ihen she comes, \~e Hill kill the old red 1'ooste1' Hhen she comes. \"Ie "Jill kill the old red rooster ''1hen she com.es. lVe Nill kill the old red rooster, vie Hill kill the old red rooster, Vie "Ii11 kill the old red rooster Vlhen she comes, He will have chicken and rltuuplins Hhen she COllies, \'Je rill have chicken and dump1ins \'1hen she comes. i:!<c, Hill have chicken and dtunplins, We Hill have chicken and dtunp1ins, He Hill have chicken and dmaplins Hhen she comes, \'Ie Hill all be thel'e to '" Geol'ge ,Tac]{son: The banjo is too 10H to sound real good, I can t t sing much, I got a bronchial trouble. Vie III try a little here nO'll, ( The next song is "John Henry", (see next page for Hords,) ( VIe clap.) ill1, 1 111 give ya, play yo. another march here, ( The nam.e of the tune is "Cold Creek l\lfarch" Hhich Mr .Jackson ",rate himself nccorr1ing to his wife,) Becky: Good, l>eal good, Thatls a old one too, huh? GtJ Irene Jackson: Wasn't that "Cold Cree' ( Hal.'ch"'( Yea, vIell, He'll try to sing you and play y I all one that uh an old one and i.f I can get uh m".dam over there in tune to." you feel like singing "\>D1en The Roses Bloom"? Irene ,Tackson: I'll help you on the chorus, you sing it (?). Herels Uh, do I don't knoH Hhether I can got \'lith it or not, I'll ,just try j.t. JOHN HENRY After listening to lVIr, Jackson's recording over and over again I still had a difficult time trying to understand what he was saying, To the best ofA'''1ability, I believe the following verses are or arc similar to what he was singing, John Henry was a pretty small bo~ He vJaS sittin on his mama's knee And he picked up a hammer and a little (?) John Henry swung that hm,Mer over his head And brought the luumuer dovlD to the ground, A man in Chatanooga two hundred miles m~ay, Said, 11 Listen to that rumbling sOlmd, Lord, Lord, Just listen to that rumbling soundll , John Ilem'y said to his shaker, IIlVIan, vThy don I t you pray, 'Cause if I miss with this nine pound hromner Tomaorrow, will be my burying day, Lord, Lord, Tomorrow will be my bUl'ying day, II 0, they took John Henry to the graveyard And buried him in the hot sand, And every locomotive come roarin l by, Saying, IIThere lies a steel drivin' man Lord, Lord, Saying, "'l'here lies a 8teel dri vin' man" ,mEN THE ROSES BI.OOH AGAIN The \10rds in this song like .John Henry vlere har'd to understand also, I tried to find all the words to the song in a book, but could not find them So here is the song in its incomplete form, They wereromning in the (?) when the roses were in bloom '" (?) And their hearts were filled with sorrow for the coming out tomorrow and the roses upon (?) Do not ask his sweetheart to linger for you know not what you say l'1hen duty calls your sweetheart's name in vain. If I be ~TIong the dying (?) I'll be with you when the roses bloom again, ,"hen the rose blooms again by the river, and robin red breast sings his sweetly prs.ise. And the days of auld lang syne It 11 be with you sl'1eetheart of mine, I'll be I,lit]) you \'1hen the ros es bloom s.gain. ( The second verse) \ihen the rose blooms ags.in by the river, and robin red breast sings his sweetly praise. And the days of auld lang syne I'll be with you Svl etheart of mine, I'll be with you when the roses bloom again. ( HI', ,TacleBon's J.'avopite is "Gpnnd Fa ,Tones" 9.nd he Hanted us to hear tHO of his favorite songs by "Gl'and Pa ,Jones". ':['he fi1'st sonl'; is my "Little Old r,ady DOIm in NeH Orleans" and the second song is a spiritual 1'Iith Earl Scruggs ;joining in on the song, In both of these songs there ape some H01'ds that 1</0 could not understand l'lhat they Here, ) LI'l'TLE OLD LADY DOVIN IN NEt'l ORI,EIINS Loveliest place on earth, Hell along the 1'0lmd from tmm to tovm n01'l I knoH l'lhat it's Vlol'th, Rerwon I'm a tellin you about this place I mean, is my little old home dOHn in NeH O1'le8.ns, (yodels) In the sUDny tOl'in l'ihel'e the (1) that's l/he1'" I long to be. In Dixieland l</hel'e the Hhite cotton gravis, it's a callin out 1.'01' me, Instend of being ahead of my dreams, it's my Iittle old home dmm in NeH 01'1eans, (yodels) I've been east, I've been '."est, Vlell I've been most evel'yl'1here. NoVi I'm going south for a big dog race, I'll be glad Hhen I get (1) thel'e, Oh, the vlOl'k of my fingel's, the vlear of lily seams ar'e Ivinning for me d01<Jn in N01'f Orleans, ('yodels) Vlell, the 'Glmo has come (?) that's vlher0 I long to be, In Dixieland 1</hel'" the Hhi to cotton gr01vs it I S a calling out for me, Instead of being ahead of my dreams, it's my little old home dONn in NeH 01'leans, (yodels) ( The nnxt song is a spil'itual and !'II', Jackson couldn't rem0mber the name of it,) Golden leaves that lie scattm'ed on the ground, The birds and i'loVlel's thil.t l'lero hepe nOH can' '0 be found. All his fl'ierfi'l that he onCG had are not alound. They a:('e scattepod like the leaves upon the ground, Some folks etl'ip along their' life and never th1'ill (1) Thl'ough the feeling that a good deal (1) It's too late and they are pe:ody to lie d')1'In there beneath tho loaves that scattered on the gPGund. r,ord, let me my eyes see ever<y need of evepy man, 11ake me stop and n.hlays lend a helping hand, ~~hen l'lhen I'm laid beneath that grassy mound, the'll be more friends than leaves upon the grotmd. (NOH Earl). To your grave thero is no use taking any gold. You cannot u'e it Hhen it's time for Him to call. ~fuen you leave this earth for a better hOU10 someday, tho only thing you'll t8.ke is 1-111.8:[: you gave al-JaY. ( Nmr Mr. Jfl.ckson it since 1900 and is going to play his violin.) I"ve been having Irene Jackson: 1928 1928, August 10, 192~:. Becky: Did someone give it to you? 011. no. (laughs) Irene Jackson: He bought it. Hhat are you going to play, Daddy, first? ( The fir"t song is "Nore Gal" )-rhich sounds like a 'G1'ain.) Dh. Beoky: Love it. rhat. there an old one called "More Gal". (laughs) ( He plays another> tune.) That I s "Chinese Rag". (laughs) That's "DoHn Yonder". (laughs) Irene .Tackson: I didn't knoH H)::18.t that vJas. ( The next tune is "Jo1m Henry".) "J'ohn Henry". (laughs) But that I,-rasn't much. NOH let's turn it off for aHhile, honey. Mary: O.K. ( In this next passage Mr. .Tackson is talking about a Fiddle-,'s Convention in Chato.nooga, 'l'enn. in \"Ihich he participated in and Hon second prize.) So I, I didn't Hant to play cause .. Irone Jackson: start; back over and tell'em. Becky: What was, vrhere v18.s the place you played? George Jackson: Chatanooe:a. Becky: VThat was the noone of the contest? It \'Ins, they called it yO\). lmOH - the Fiddler's Convention is Hhat they called it. But just, uh, just lrrell, old t:Lme music is \'That it was and just, they had fiddle:es from everyHhere there. And so they kept on at me to go in there and play and that Has the night \'Ihen the judges decided \rho Has the chmupion fiddler. Hell, I cOlJldn I t take first prize because I HS." out of state, see, and so I got up thepe and played two or three tunes fer 'em and uh, oh, there was a terrible crowd of people there tllat night and \\Tb.en the thing Has Hound up noH I I took second ploize. I sho did. Anc1 I lrTOuldn' t never in the lrTorld thought about it. (laughs) I just up thereon a visit and I didn't even lmoH the Fiddlers's Convention Has going on. And,~tf COl,lrSe I could play then a heap better than I ce.n 11.0'.') because I Has use to it ses. I played all the time and . ( The next song is a Jimmy Rogel'S' blues song. ~jp. Jackson couldn't remember the nerae of it.) Mal'Y: Vlhat's the lUJme of that? Uh, that's one of Jilmny Rogers' old tunes. I forget the nl,une of that. It's a blues isn't it ,honey? I forget the name of it. It's one of Jinwy Rogera' old tunes. (laughs) Irene Jackson: Play "Red \cling", Daddy. "Red \'ling". (laughs) NON hepe's one knoHn aa "Cannon Ball". That's hard to play. (1'1e laugh) Irene Jackson: Play "Old Spinning I'Iheel". "Spinning l~heel". (le.ugha) That's one hard to play. (he plays anothel' one) Mary: \'/hat Has the nWle of that? Irene Jackson: 'rhat Has "Buffalo", wasn't it? Huh? Irene Jackson: Or ride a wild (?) and shoot a buffalo, lrlasn' t that; lrlhat it \'Ias'( George 1;1. Jackson: Huh? Yea that's "Buffs.lo". Mary: HO.T Ibout, can you play sarno of tllosu songs you playod Ilith Fate Norris? Uh, you knoH you sometimes, you sit dOlm and start to play somethin and you can It think of vThat you 11ant to play and Mary: \va'1 that "Ida Red"? I III have to think. I can I t got that on the1'o. '['hero Isane HO usod to play there. Irene Jackson: Play "Ida Hed" for lem. Let me get this thing in a little better tune. Mary: Do you Hant me to turn it off a minute'! Let me warm it up a little bit. (He times his ban,jo,) I can I t think of the mune of that song. "Hule River Train" I ( togetheJ.') lIm a leading on that mule river train. lIm a leading on that mule river train. Same old train that brought me here, Garry me 8.11ay sorr18day. Oh, Honey Babe , you canlt love one. Oh, Honey Babe , You can't love one. Can't love one and have any fun, Honey Babe, you can't love one. lIm a leading on that mule river t1'ain. 1 1m a leading on that mule river train. Same old t.rain that brought me here, Garry rae mTay someday. 011, Honey Babe, you can't love tHO. Oh, Honey Babe, you can't love two. Cm,'t love two and (?) Honey Babe, you can't love two. Oh, Honey Babe, you canlt love three. Oh, I-roney Babe, you can't love three. Canlt love three (?) I'ra in love l-lith thee. I'm a leadine; on that mule piver train, 1 ' m a leading on that mule l'ive:e train, Same old train that brought me hex'8, Carry me away some day, I'm a leading on that mule river train, I'm a leading on that mule river train, Smuo old train that brou~ht me here, Capry me avJay some day, - r1y fingers are, is all skinned up, I knock a peice of skin off th1\t one there the other morning, They get, thoy den't want to work good, It maJ,es 8.10t of difference, I'm going to get trained tip on this, Now, Irene Viill be Hriting to y ' all 1\nd you come back up here and He'll, we III put on a good one. I me8.n ''ie'll have a 1'i sh fry, We got a fine place hepe, 'Pyped and transcrib::d by Mary Evans. 1 1 I I I I I I I I I I I I I I roYl . SO ..C\<;SO" ~\ cuD' ""0 '\-n.v 'cc~j, \\"'1\. 3G...c~so" ,?\CU..(SllI \)\"'i, \.)10\ \'\\.. \'IO\e., hQ-t. \))~ i;\...o"~ oS \-\'00o.c.~SO[\\.s nO\n'Z-. \",\,. Of'C\.. \'(\~.;:"Q.~'iS(jn l.'-Jlth -\-\'R\'\'" c\CCi'() '\-h~\1' uEX2l~\D.b"eJ 5Q \C\'C.\> A PDF transcript exists for this recording. Please contact an archivist for access. Professor John Burrison founded the Atlanta Folklore Archive Project in 1967 at Georgia State University. He trained undergraduates and graduate students enrolled in his folklore curriculum to conduct oral history interviews. Students interviewed men, women, and children of various demographics in Georgia and across the southeast on crafts, storytelling, music, religion, rural life, and traditions. As archivists, we acknowledge our role as stewards of information, which places us inaposition to choose how individuals and organizations are represented and described in our archives. We are not neutral, andbias isreflected in our descriptions, whichmay not convey the racist or offensive aspects of collection materialsaccurately.Archivists make mistakes and might use poor judgment.We often re-use language used by the former owners and creators, which provides context but also includes bias and prejudices of the time it was created.Additionally,our work to use reparative languagewhereLibrary of Congress subject termsareinaccurate and obsolete isongoing. Kenan Research Center welcomes feedback and questions regarding our archival descriptions. If you encounter harmful, offensive, or insensitive terminology or description please let us know by emailingreference@atlantahistorycenter.com. Your comments are essential to our work to create inclusive and thoughtful description.