Nancy Phillips interview with Robert Thomas Phillips, Jesse Thomas Phillips, William T. J. Phillips, and Lee Brooks (part one)

The John Burrison Georgia Folklore Archive recordings contains unedited versions of all interviews. Some material may contain descriptions of violence, offensive language, or negative stereotypes reflecting the culture or language of a particular period or place. There are instances of racist language and description, particularly in regards to African Americans. These items are presented as part of the historical record. This project is a repository for the stories, accounts, and memories of those who chose to share their experiences for educational purposes. The viewpoints expressed in this project do not necessarily represent the viewpoints of the Atlanta History Center or any of its officers, agents, employees, or volunteers. The Atlanta History Center makes no warranty as to the accuracy or completeness of any information contained in the interviews and expressly disclaims any liability therefore. If you believe you are the copyright holder of any of the content published in this collection and do not want it publicly available, please contact the Kenan Research Center at the Atlanta History Center at 404-814-4040 or reference@atlantahistorycenter.com. In this first part of a two-part interview, Nancy Phillips interviews her husband, Robert Thomas Phillips. Robert Thomas Phillips tells a story about his grandfather, William Phillips, encountering and being followed by a ghost in Milledgeville, Tennessee. At minute 4:24, he tells a story about Confederate soldiers capturing his great-grandfather, a Union Army soldier, from Tennessee, and how he escaped. Next at minute 10:23, Jesse Thomas J.T. Phillips, Robert Thomas father, tells his version of the story about his father encountering a ghost. The interview finishes at minute 13:27 with J.T. Phillips telling his version of his grandfathers Civil War experience, in which he was captured twice and burned down the house of Confederate women who had laughed at him when he was captured and was waiting to be executed. William Thomas Jefferson Phillips (1891-1970) completed fourth grade in Milledgeville, Tennessee. He married Gertrude Eura Hardin (1893-1972) in 1911 and had two children, Jesse T. (1913-2007) and Virginia D. (1919-1985). Phillips later lived on a farm in Leapwood, Tennessee, for 51 years where he drove a school bus. At the time of the interview, he resided in Finger, Tennessee. Jesse T. J.T. Philips (1913-2007) was born and attended high school in McNairy County, Tennessee. Afterwards, he worked as a mechanic and mail carrier in Tennessee. In 1938, he left Tennessee and worked as an installer and later as an Associate Engineer for the Western Electric Company, Inc. He settled with his family in Atlanta, Georgia, and later moved to Marietta, and then Duluth, Georgia. In 1960 to 1963 he was the Georgia representative of The Communications Workers of America C.W.A. to The American Federation of Labor and Congress of Industrial Organizations (AFL-CIO). He married Ernestine Sipes (1918-1987) and had two children, Robert Thomas and Marie (1943-2015). Robert Thomas Tom Philips (approximately 1946- ) was born in Meridian, Mississippi, and moved to Atlanta as a small child. He attended graduate school at Georgia State College and worked as an accountant for Canners for Coca-Cola Bottlers, Inc. He married Nancy Phillips and had two sons, Mikel and Robert. Phillips also served as both representative and senator in the Georgia General Assembly in the 1970s through 1990s. Lee Brooks lived in Finger, Tennessee. No additional biographical information has been determined. AHC Oral History Cataloging Worksheet File Information Catalogue number ~~SS 1003, 11.1~ Source Field* (ContentDM) ~ Release form ( 'Ye:9rNo -' Transcript Yes or No scanned: From Yes or No Default text: Contributed by an OR: Donated by individual: individuai through <your org, name> Georgia Folklore Collection through <your org. name> Object Information Enter information about the phvsical obiect here: Description (bio on interviewee) ),;1. ':!'hJ"~o:') '''f('" d\ HC'I\d\, I (.,1\ " 5~. 'rd:, ,,1,\ "J"cl<;a, \ , e...-4't)('t':,(Jc,{ tV'1 'el-:\ \:(!S ~c ().l,;j.,' '-\ " .. ", (J, ", '. .r : Creator (Enter either an individual's name or an organization) BurrisonFolklore Class Collection Name (within the organization) Georgia Folklore Archives ' Creation Date Exact Date (yyyy-mm-dd) (use only one) f-:-;-----------t----------------j Year (if only the year is known) Circa (4 digit year) Year Span From To Object Type Image_ Text Text and image _ Video and sound Sound only~ Media Format (VHS, reel to reel, etc Recording extent Derivatives Reel-reel Hours: Minutes: Stj ~ \ \ ~ Access cOPYi.~e or No Access copy format: Recording clip Yes or No Clip extent: cr~ 1/; Time code for clip (h:m:s) Beginning:-:i,,-"13::"':.ll1l__ End: )sofr! 1'1\ '(''''6) 'I ,,\ . -1\ "", " \ 1""- f,r .', \, J '\1, :ll,' (),) .L, .:\'[, \e.. \I ,\1",,( "" - u ('S 1\', ' " " . ,j , {l"':>iu n :,:;' f)f '(,!\'~\'\ '.J).".t',. ()'i'-, ... "\;;,, A >,' 'J\'(IT} <,,'''C'\ \ I, C'f\",~If-<'(1 l-J; I b-.\ V'-J :'" '",,:l\~("., -1,_ "il., 0\:",,'0, llIn'I,'\ ')"'\, ,f ( ,v,II", l,v. \ ( , '1:<, (11"".,10') ),,\\', fA 6",<J (;\"""'1 ().,..\ .h.,\\c" ",h"J ,L l\c." Notes (interview summary) . Recording issues (background noise, echo, , static, etc,) Subject Information Enfer I'nformat"Ion a'bout the content 0 f theob)'Iect here: Subject Date Exact Date (yyyy-mm-dd) (use only one) Year (if oniy the year is known) Circa (4 digit year) 1'1(.'Y Year Span From To Subject Who Last Name First Name MI 'p Subject Country State County Town Local Name Location' \)~ 'Yi~\ r:\Y\( ,. f ~",,(1'1\1" i)(("'\-..lI Subject What AHC Cataloger will complete this for you. (LOC subject , headinas onlV) Keywords Burrison, John Personal names See subject who for additional names 'C.::, . :.,' 3 Corporate names Geographic locations Topics 1\1'1. C\O Collecting Projeot For Folklore 301 Nanoy Phillips May 19, 1969 f.,,-'I.,.i";,!'"t ". ) Hr. Burrison: Missing 1'rom this report are the pictures which are to be on page 4 and the release which will be poge )9. I will get these things to you as soon os possible. Noncy Fhillips Table of Oontents Finger, Tennessee Map Piotures Baokground on Informants 'fhe Tapes The Motifs Distribution of Motifs in Stories Oomparison of Story Versions 1'ransoription 11'ape 1 'fape 2 Releases Nisoellaneous Stories From My Ohildhood 2 ;5 4 5 7 13 10 11 1;5 2;5 513 40 2 Finger, Tennessee ./"'A- 4k"i'nt)J't.{I.rP~J't r1i1\"'~',:'L<1.j1}",f.L .l F'inger, 0'enneosee i~ a 0uiet, rural cou,muni tyX"'hicli) has lost population steadily since Vlorld ';,ar 11, when the young men discovered the world beyond it. At the peak of its history, I"inger had 500 or 600 steady inhabitants. The one-street town had a traIn depot, blacksmith shop, two service stations, garage, post office, bank, two dry goods otores, tVIO grocery stores and a cotton gin. '1'0day , the litt.le town has a population of about 100 people, most of tham at least sixty yaars of age. 1\1 though the depot. still stands, the train" which pass through on the s",itoh traok have not etopped there for many years. ~hny of the stores are still there, but only a feu are in business. 'fhree tiny grocer.\, :::tores are open, and t\'lO oe1'- vioe stations 8ell gas (1 pur"p) and oil, but nothing else. 'I'here is a bank, but it's main funotion is the oashing of welfare checks. l"inger is truly a tOVin one could miss by bU.nking on the way past. 'I'here is no "Stop" sign, muoh less a traffic light. There is, however, 0. sign at tho railroad track "hich runs throup;h the "heart" of to"/ll. One obserVation that is outstanding to Ine is the tot'~l e.~sence of young people or ohildren in the tovm. Arnone; these old people much of the lore they learned from tbeir parents and p;randparentA liveA eVen today. ')\\ e~, p'''' x (I, \ (V\ c {lleA, \' ~ C 'N iJ ~~~- . ... I 5 llackground on Informants Informants f'or these stories are three g:enerations of [,hillipB' W. '1" Fhilllps, of ~'lnger, '1'enneBsee; J. '1'. lhillips, of li,arietta, Georgia; and H. '1'. PhIllips of Decatur, Georgia. W. 'l'. PhIllIps, who I" eIghty, completed four grades of "ohool in Hilledgeville, 'l'enne9see. For fifty-one years he lived in Lcap"ood, 'I'ennessee on a 100-aere farm, CUltivating it and drivIng a school bus, lIPOpll now lives in Finger, '11ennessee \1hich 1.8 about f'if'tcen miles north of Leapwood. J. T. Phi.llips receIved a hle;h Rchool edUcation In 14cNairy County, Tennessee. lie worked as a mechanic and a mail carrier before he left 'l'ennesrJee at tVlenty-six. Beeomlng an installer for Vlestllrn Ineotdo Compsny, Incorporated, in 1951), he traveled over much of tho South befol'e settling in Atlanta. In 1960,-196;> he vIas the Georgia representative of the C. W. A. to the AFL-ClO. Now, at 56, he is an Q.ssocla te engIneer in 'ilestel'n F;lectrlc I s Englneel'ing Division. U. H. '1'. l-hilli.ps, a graduate student at Georgia State Oolloge, WaS born in I"!oridian, Hi.ssiBoipl'i but has lived in Atlanta tVlenty-one of his twenty-three years. An accountant, he works for Oanners for Ooca-Cola Bottlers, lncorpofl<ted in Atlanta. Hobert spent many long Bummers on his grandfather'" 'ennegeee farm learning stories, legends and history. 6 Lee Brooks, a resident of Fingey Tennessee, is a slim, sunburned I t9" man in his sixty,I's. He says he likes to talk although his wUe d<iles A not say much. He Was neatly dressed but unshaven at the time of this chanoe enoounter. Mr. Br<iloks Was keenly interested in Georgia State ClOlle/"s and made several 'lnqui.ries about campus disturbanoes and "hippies" before he decided he wanted to let me use the recorded material. 7 The Tape s 'rape one ;;as wade at two different locations. The first two storiee, f'r"m Hobert 'r. l11i11ipo were collected in Decatur, Geergia; the laet two storioe Were collected in ,~rietta, Georgia frem Jeeee T. fhillips later on the sawe day. The tWe informants had not recently diecussed the stories, ;;hich have been in the family for about fifty and seventyfive years, respectively. Tape twe was made in Selmer, Tennessee at the McNairy Ceunty General Hospital. 'rhe fi rst informant, \'/illiatn '1'. Phillips/was recuperating e f'r<>tn pnumonia at the titne. The hospital did not permit children in the /' r""mA. 'l'herefore, I had to rel1Ain in the "aiting r"om "i th my s"n "hile my husband intel'viewed his grandfather. it is for this reason that R'rp is neted as an informant on tape one and is designated as intorvie"er on tape two. wring this hespital-ro"m interview there were noises Qf sheets being rumpled Qn the bed and Qther hospital sounds. After the first two stories by VI '1' P, the interviewer Was playing thelll back and a neighbor (i>f 'i/'1'P walked in. After hearing the first stary, Lae Brooks began talking and telling hie storios. 'I'he intervie"or WaS unable to catch the very beginning af tllis conversation. Key to Speakere lntervi 0\'101": HI'p J'lT \~'l'P LB Nancy F. Fhill ips Hobert '1'. l'hillips Jesse 'r. Phillips William T. Phillipe Lee Broaks 8 'rhe M<ltif's Although all of' the motif's oontained in these stories were not f'ound in either 'l'hompson or Baughman, some of' them are oOILmon IIl0tif's. 'the ghost story, Ghost in the Graveyard, oonatined several motifs found in and North Amerioa: __ .'__' . ._.,......0 E332.2(e) Ghost runs beside horses at night. illinois: Neeley, Monasha, Wisconsin, 1938. E334.2 Ghost haunts burial spot. E380 GhOst summoned. E411.10 Persons who die violent or accidental deaths cannot rest in grave. New York, Jones Oolleotion. The Louis G. Jones Folklore Arohives, '1\1e New York State Historioal Assooiation, Oooperstown, New York. Oolleoted by Louis C. Jones and others. E112l.5 Ghost seen by two or more persons; they corroborate the appearanoe. York: <'eaoook. lh ble. "Apparitions ,in Lincolnshire, II Folk-Lore. XXVII (1917), 103. E423.1.1 Revenant as dog. El+23.1.1.1(a) Ghostly dog of unspecified color. North Carolina' Brown Oolleotion. The Frank O. Brown Colleotion of' North Oarolina ~'olklole. Seven volurons. l~olk ,fules_ andLege~<!.':.. Ne'/ITan Ivey White and others. Missouri: Randolph, Vanoe. ~ 1alking 'turtle and o.~her Ozark Folktale':.. Notes b,Y Herbert Halpert. New York, 1957. 9 E427.1.8 Revenant as oow, bull or oalf or steer. U. S.: Skinner, I',argo. "The Vanishing Hitohhiker Again, II \~estern Folklore. XII (1957), 176- 177. 'rhe Civil \~ar story contained fewer motifs whioh are oommonly recognized: K551. RespIte from death granted until partioular aot is performed. K620 Esoape by deoeiving the guard. The oonversation of Lee Brooks produoed a version of the Counting Souls story. Aooording to llorson, in Amerioarl. Negr~ .~olktales~ "The story of the passerby who thinks he hears the Lord and the Devil oounting souls in the graveyard enjoys extraordinary vogue; Vanoe lhndolph says he knmls fifty persons in the Ozarks who oan tell it (11ho Blowed Y. the Churoh House?, p. 20JI). W1'1' going to danoe oalling up gh0st Distribution af Hotifs in Stories J'l'l' ooming from danoe oalling up gh0st 10 ItTP ta and from <lance ghost legend calling up ghost ghsst desoripti0n sh00ting gheBt (2) ghost leaves ca ptu re by Ilo bel s hanging tl.ed en h"rse yelling In creek tied 0n gr"und eSCape by oraft (wider circle) gh0st desorlption shooting ghost (1) gh0st leaves captllre by Rebels hanging tied "n mul" yelling in creek tied en gr0und escape by craft (slOaller oirole) hiding in hde heart beating girls laugh at him bird in bush burning h"use ghest descriptien threatens to she"t (2) deElS net sheGt ghest leaves Almighty )lewer capture by Rebels hanging tied "n mule yelling in creek tied on ground escape by craft (wider circle) hiding in hele heart beatIng girls laugh at him burning hause 11 Cowparison or Story Versions 1'be family stories collected for thi s projoct bave been passed down from rather to son since as long ago as tbe Civil \'Iar. VI. T. Phillips delivered his nanative ~/ith a great deal of detail and lliany more direct Quotations than bis son or grandson did. He did not seem to have a very specific chronologioal organization for the Oivil War story. Evidently, he Was less self-conscious about the reoording of' his stories as his tone was more oonvorsa tiona I and he did not o",i t ohoioe bits of profanity. ,J. '1'. Phillips had the storios "Iell organized in his mind and told theUl with no hesitation. His 1uotations were less nuwerous, shorter, and cleaned up for presentation. He did not mind admitting that his gra.ndfather had been a "Yankee" soldier, as his father did. R. T. Phillips had the stories condensed to capsule length. He did not know the place-names or' the names of the cbaracters, nor did be include any quotations. He did, however, interpret the actions by explaining how the actor must have felt in the situation. The most outstanding discropanoy in tho thr'ee versions of the ghost story is the insistence of the participant that he did not shoot and the insistenoe of the son and grandson that he did shoot, once or twioe. 1'1. 1'. Phillips is the only one of the throe "ho put any religious significanoe to the ocourranoe. It is not hard to understand why this should be so, oonsidering the backgrounds of the three storytellers. As far as the Civil Itar story is ooncerned, the greatest inoonsistency 12 in it is one of length. The version oolleoted from R. T. Phillips left out elmont half of the aotion desoribed by the other two lnforllants. 'I'APE 1 Intervi'>VIer: The first story I'd like to hear is the one about the ghost in the graveyard. RTP; The ghost in the graveyard. Well, this happened to my grandfather and uh Vlell, he lives right nOVI in Finger, 'l'ennessee. An' at the time this happened he "~s living in ~lilledgeville, 'l'ennessee "hich is right on the banks of the 'I'ennessoe Rivel'. An' the "ay my fa the,' told it to me "as that my grandfather and a friend of hie "ere goin' to " square dance one night and they were on horseback and they "ere going dOlm this deserted road and they Vlere gonna take", short cut through this cemetery. An' this particular cemetery Vias said to be haunted by an old fel101; who lived dovln the road from the cemetery and I don't knoVi hoVi he died, but the story goea that if you go there to the cemetery at night and ahout a.nd call the man' a nall!e he will appear in any form that you ask hill! to til ppear as. lie 11 , my e,'andfather a.nd his friend were gaine off dOVin the road and they cut through tho cemetery. An' my grandfather' a friend suggested they stop there and call for this fellow. An' it seemed like a good idea at the tiine and so the iLUY that vias with hiin, Vlith my grandfather, shoutod out for hiw and he "anted, he asked, him to appear as uh uh some kind of animal ,Ii.th a body as long as '" fence rail und a. head like a bull dog and hi s ta.il flopped ove!' hi e back. An' he' 8, my g,'andfather, is supposed to have vlaited thero with him and they wdted for a little while. So nothing happened and 80 thoy deeided to go on to the dunce 14 and they "ere riding dOlm the road and my grandfather looked do"n. An' there "as thir< dog or something that appeared to be a dog follo"ing along beside the guy's horse "ho \<Ia8 riding in front of him and he didn't say anything. An' they rode for a fe" minutes and then my grandfather asked the fello" if he sa\<l it and tho guy told him yeah he'd been "atching iT for a good long while and they had a discussion ovel' what it was. An' they deoided to stop and see what, you know, what it would do So when they stopped the anit~l stopped itself. An' an' they rode on for a little piece further and stopped again and it also stopped. So they decided to find out what it waa. An' my i;randfather alwaya carried a piatol with him and he's a good ahot with, with a rifle 'even now. He'e uh eighty years old and he can outshoot me with a rifle so it vIas obvious that he could hit what he WaS aimin' at. An' my grandfather tcild him he \1as going to shoot it and aee what happened, and, vie 11 , he pulled out his pistol and cut down on it and the thing didn't even move and he shot it again, r think he did, 1 think he shot twice, but a,nyvlay, uh when he did shoot nothing happened. An' then my grandfather told him he was gonna get down and see what it was. An' the guy told him if he got down he would run off and leavo him. An' so thoy decided to ride on to the dance juat to see if the thing would follO\1 them. Well, they rode on 'til they approached a house and there was a dog at this house. An' it startod barking at 'em and tho closor thoy got to tho house tho furthor behind the animal that Was with them got. An' they sai d it looked jus t like what the guy called for the follow to be, An' 8<1 you can make what you vrant to out of it. 15 Interviewer: What about the other story that you told me about your great grandfather during the Oivil War? RTPI Well, my great grandfather Was a veterinarian in the Union Army and he lived in MoNairy County, Tennessee, well thiB is, well, ~lell, where he lived WaB Milledgeville, 'fennessee ~Ihich is in 1'lcNairy County. But, anyway at the time of the war he went to east Tennessee and I forget the name of the town that he went to join the Union Army at but it's in east Tennessee. An' about a year after he joined the army sometime in 1Il61 or 62 he wound up back in MoNairy Oounty with the Uni.on Arrny. An' he had been raised, 1 think, with his cousin for Bome reason or . other they were raised both in the sarne house or in the household and his cousin was in the Rebel Army. An' I don't know what the oircumstances were that uh my groat r;randfather was captured by the Oonfederate Army, but anyway, he did and as a matter of fact it was the same outfit that my grandfather's cousin waR in. An' it BeemB as though the oommander of the Oonfederate unit there wanted to know where my great grandfather's unit was and, naturally, under those oiroumstances he decided it would be beBt to tell 'em the truth so he did. An', but, the fellow didn't believe hlu, and they told him if he didn't tell 'em the truth they Were gonna: hang him. \'Ie11 , they, they hung him, but they out him down before he'd died. An' they started queBtioning him aga.in and he told 'em .. lie and they believed him. Well, uh they put him on a horse baok and tied hiro to the horBe and started out at the, uh in the direotion of where he had told 'em that the uh unit was in. They crossed a oreek and wna hended for one of hia 16 friend' a houae. They I<ere going to take him also so I<hen they crosDed the ol'eek my great grandfather let out a yell and the offi,cer in charge came back to find out what I<as I<rong I<ith him. AnI he told him tbat the water ran in his' boot and it I<as oold so he soreamed. Well, aotually the fellol< that they were going after heard him and he ran out the baok door of hiB house and got away. An' la,ter on uh I don't knol< if this Was before or after they I<ent to investigate where my grandfather sals his unit I<aa but they finally deoidad that thay were gonna shoet 'em. So they staked him out uh spread eagle on the ground and told him they I<ore gonna shoot him the next morning. An' BO my groat grandfather'a coualn camo to soe and talk to 'im and uh his couai,n I<ant to tho ub uh Oonfedora te oommander and aaked him to let him up off the ground and let him walk around a little bit before they shot him the next morning. An' they agreed provided tba t he guardod him himself'. An' ao they cut him up and lot him I<alk around a little bit and uh lot's see, I think he I<as walking around a oorn pile. Weli, at this partioular place l<9,a whero the uh whero they had him I<aa I<here the uh reaidents in that part of tho oounty usod to bring thoir corn to bo Bold and they cellad it the corn pile. An' ho \1as I<alking around this troo or oorn pile or something and my great grandfather' 8 cousin Vias guarding him. An I an' he I<as sotting down, had his riflo propped on his shoulder I<ith tho butt of it b"t\;een bis legs. An' as my great grandfatber would \;a.lk around in a cirole he kept getting in a wider and Vlider circle. AnI his cousin, it didn't take bim long to figure out what he Was doing and told him if he got one foot further out ho'd shoot him. AnI ub so he 17 stepped back toward him and walked around him, his oousin, one time and then next time around he kioked hio rifle out of hio hands and broke to run down between where they had their horses tied. An' my grandfather who told me the story said that his father told him that they must have shot at 'im a hundred times but it's no telling how many times they actually shot because til. man in that state has a tendenoy to ex~rate. But, anyway, he did get away. An' I think it took him eeveral days to get linked up back with his unit. An' uh that's "bout all there is to it. Interviewer: 'rhe first story I'd lilee to hear is the one about your llid meeting up \Iith the ghost in the graveyard. JTP: Well, My Dad and his buddy had been to a danco one night and they Were comin ' through thi" graveyard. An' the story had been told that uh when you c"me through the Eravoyard you oould holler and call an old Il'an that livod in the neighborhood and had died a fow years before and ask for him to appoar in whatever form you wanted him to appeal' in and that he did. So, they stopped in the graveyard that night and his buddy said "Let' 8 oall for this old man to Came and uh with a body long as a fence rail, a head on him liko a bull dog and a tail curled over hia back. They stood there on their horse--thflY were riding double on a horse_-Ilnd they stood there and Wa i ted for a ~Ih ile. An I decided they \Vadn' t 1';0 ing to see anything an' they started ridin ' on an' my father looked dotln at the side of tho hOl'SO and there vIae somethin' trottin along beside of the hOl'se. An' he didn't say a.nything for a fow minutes and he said "Elgin," says, "you 3eO "hat I see?" He Baid, "Yoah, I been vlatching 18 . l.t f'ive minutes." An' he says, IIStop nnd let me dONn and I'll see Nhat it is. II An' Nhen they stopped, it stopped and set do~m like a dog but he said it Nadn' t as long as a fence rail. So Elgin said, "You better not get dONn. If you do I'll run off' and leave ye." An' he Nouldn't let him g;et dONn and exaluine it. So they rode on l'lhen they started on it started trottin' along beside of' 'em. An' my fl~ ther hlad an old pbtol in his pooket and he tole Elgin to hold the mare land SlaYs, "I I 11 see Vlha t th.. t thing is. II So he shot point blank right straight do~m at it and it never even moved. So tho:r rode dONn to tho branoh and croll sed the branch and it trotted right along beside of 'em and this dog oommenced running out a-barkin' off up ahead of' 'em. An' they stopped again and I,hen they "topped that time it trotted off, trotted off through the Vloods like a normal dog 'lOuld have done, but ho said he didn't have any idoa "hat it was. But everybody that alNays tried to pull that stunt always Been somethin' but thoy didn't, vladn't no, ever no explanation of ,;hat it Nas. lntervie"er: \'/e11 , that's "ome story. HON about the sto!'y of youl' grandfather when he ';as in the Oivil \,,'ar g;etting almost hung? J'P: Itell my grandfs. thor "as captured t"ice. Vh, he "as raised in west Tennessee and he >lent to tniddle 'I'ennessoe to enlist with the Federal forces at J1.l1aski, Tenlle"see in GUes Oounty. I never dId understand, never did knol; why he ;,ent so rar- to enlist, but most of hiB career "'as around the cOlDllluni ty ",hero he >las raised. But he ';as captured one time by the Uonfoderaten and they ;:ere tHking him to the Confederate company te ~uestion him and they was trying to get him to tell where 19 his company I<a6, "hero they "ere oa"'l'ed, and he told 'em right, right orf-a the bat "here they \'Iere, but they didn I t believe it. So, he made up a lie and told 'em. So they tied him on a little Illule, put him on a little lliule--no bridle, no saddle, no nothing--tied his legs under its stomach and turned him loose. So, he rambled around there-that mulo Handered and Handered--urttil he finally found somebody that "ould take hIm 1008e a.nd get 'em orf it. An' he finally got baok to his oompany. An' later on ho Vias oaptured again there olose by his boyhood oommunity and they "ere oarrying him to be "hat He 011.11 today interrogated r guess, and they rode aeross a uh creek that had--In those days they didn't h,,'1o bddges muoh, thoy had to "hat they oall "forded 'em." So they rode dOHnIn thIs branch and they had heard, he had hoard the oaptain talking about an old fello" that lived on that road and they I<ere gonna take him out and kill 'em beoause they thought he "as a, a spy. So \'Ihon they rode dO'1n in tbat bi'anoh uh my grandruther hollered right loud, yelled hoping tbis old feller "ould--wbioh \'Ias a friend of bis--Hould bear him and did bear him and went out tho baok door and ran. So they asked him "hy, Why did he boller? He said tbat oold water ran in his boots wben they went aoross thll.t branch and it'us cold. So they stoppod at thin house and this feller's HHe, the old lady, was there and thej questioned ber and trIed to get her to tell 'em "here he \1"8. !Jut he'd run off and they didn't do nothing 9.t that particular time. 'l'hey uh carried him on to Hhat if> new knol<n an the community of Old llarricl\n olose to the Tennessee lilver and uh tbey "'1S trying to 20 get him to tell Vlhere his oompany \1as again, and he told 'em but they strun!r, him up and hunr; 'im to a big red oak tree, just pulled him up on it and finally they let him dOVln, and oarried hilU on to, a-hem, the Oamp. 'rhey Vlere gonna shoot 'in;. An' they tied him and another old feller out in the open on their baoks, stretched 'em out liko Indians, t:\ed their hands and feet stl'etched out. An' i.t was oold and they \10.8 about to froeze. l,jy grandi'athor always said that if he had to die he'd ra.thel' i'reeze to death than anything e18e because aftcl' you got so oold you didn't feel anything, you're perfeotly numb and you'd go to sleep end it VIas an easy death, fl'om the experience he had at that time. So Vlhile tbey vlel'e layi.n' the.'o they bad wallered out a hol<; just the impl'int of 'em in the mud and the sluBh, tried to, you know, oil'cle, get the oil'oulation goin'. 'rhey was a lady and two daughters viBited the oam!' and the,Y wel'e showing thorn around and they Vlalked up and VIas looking at these two old lUen and they Were laughing about them tied down there in the mud. An' on during the day--ho said he was tied right oloso by a little busb and thel'e was .. little bird kept !'Lying aOrOSS the field and lightin' in that little bush nnd would tweeter and look dOVln on them and fly right 0.0rOS8 the field, and in that field they had the horses tied out--an' he'd mado up his mind if ho could get looso ho VIas goin' to run and l'un in the direotion that little bird Was flying. An' he said all day it just made little trips, little trips baok and forth, baok and forth. An' this Confedel'ate soldier knew my grandfather, they'd been raised together, but they's on opposite sides, and he Oame out ..nd ..sked him 21 hmw he's feelin' mne day, th... t day, and they were out thore digging their graves, two graves. An' he said he Was .. bout froze and if, sinoe they had been friends all their life go ask the captain aould he let him up and let hiw walk and get somo circulation. He told him, "Yeah," if' he would promise him he wouldn't run and he said, "Yeah, I'll promise you that." So he went and asked the captain and the captain said, "Yeah, let him up," but said, "if he starts to run, shoot him." So they ~,ent off out in a open spot and he commenced "aIkin' and this boy set dOlm against a tree; he had his gun leaned on his shoulder and they Were talking, and he said every aircle he'd make he "auld p;et a little closer to him. Said he walked until he thQught he was 1imbered-up enough to run and he cawe by this boy and he Baid he kicked his gun stock and he said ha kicked it hard as he ceuld, way out fr"m hit", said he broke and run and he run right throu/,h the horses and 'cross this field. An' ho said it "9.8 9.1most sundo"n at that timo. Said he went into the woods, "aid they had 9.1ready started firing into the horses. He had the horses between him and them. Ant he run into the woods and "aid he run until he \'18,S about ["ive out. Said he run, Oonle to a creek and he run up, "ent and got in the "<1ter and run up this oreek so they couldn't t,'ack him. An' he said ho found a hole and he cra\11ed back under thIs creek bank. He ,mid he likc to oraHled too deep becau911 he lay there and lay there; he "aid he kept hearing something like the horses running on the ground above him and he thought it "as da.rk, but said he oomo to find out it \',asn' t the horses, it v'as his heart beating in that hole. He oemmencod trying to get out, st<1rted to get out, said the sand co~nenced caving in 22 around him and said he got stuck in that hole, and he wiggled and t\dsted 'til finally he wade ene lust ef'fol't te get out and "e.id he slipped loose, e.-hem, and ho got out. SQ he \"andel'ed for e. few de.ys and hid out 'til he could get back to hiB cOlnpe.ny. Said the only thing he could remember over doing that he regretted was later on they "as on the mQve and it was cold and they pSlssod this big >1h,ite hQme. He and one of tho other soldiers stopped to Warm a\~hile and get 'om some fire and li[,;ht their pipes. An' said there Was a lady in there and twe daughters. Said he asked her if she was down at the corn pile a short time before that at the camp. Said yeah, they "Iere dO'1n there. (1 gotta oough, oough, cough, coughl) He said you l'emelhber these t"o Qld guys that'uz. tied down in the wud? 'L'hey laughed and said, "Yeah, V/,;nder "hat happened to 'em?" He said he didn't know 'Ihat happened to one of 'em, but he kneV/ V/hat happened to him, he got away. Then he said he l'eachod over at the corner of the fire plaoe "'nd picked up a shevel and said, told 'em if they had any cats and dogs or anything they didn't V/ant bUl'nad they better get 'em out. Then he said "1 stroV/ed fire allover the house Rnd we run jumped on the horses and took off." Said we looked buck and :laid we oouldn't see nothing but black smoke a-bal1arin' up." An' tha captal.n askad them V/h"t they had none. Said he told him. He said, "l'Iell. you shouldn't have dena it," he Hald, 11 I don't much blame you." 2;5 'rAPE 2 HII1P: Now what, Hha t He Hanted to do is see if' you could tell m" th" story about your comin I through . . w'rp: Oh, Lord, yes, I never \.ill forget that. I Oourse, it'uz a. long stol'y, but R'I'P: Go ahead, He got a let of time. \1'rf': I Hon't never forget it. Me and my bUddy run together, Elgin Jehnson, and uh He dressed just alike and uh I played the fiddle and he picked a gui. "andel in. An' uh he come by ene evenin' and said, "Let's go ever te Mr. Hardin's and play some music." An' I said,'Qh, 1 can't go, I done turl1'1d my horso out in the pasture, turned 'elll all out. An' he said that's no excuse, said old ~~nus'll hold us both. I s9,id, "Well, all right." So I >lent and got my fiddle and he had his mandolin. An' uh I got up in the saddle w1. th him, Vie rode back then one man >lith his right foot in the stirrup and the other'un left foot and both stayed in the saddle together, ye see. So >Ie rode on up there, gain' on. I tole him, a-hem, that thore's .. old man so ,"oan ono time, Sol Thoma", they oldmed if you called for him just any shape you called for 'im, >lhy he'd come, So I sez "I don't believe it." An' he "<aid, "Iell, I don't kno>l," but said, "there's a man up here i.n the grflveyard",-we had to go through the graveyard and both ridin' that horse. An' got up there and he said, "I, I'm a-gonna oall," for a eertain ffian--l <ain't gonna c<all his name--slJ,id "he's just as mean as Sol 'l'homas was." I said, "Vloll, I don't know." Se He went en up to the corner of the graveyard and uh, he stolJped his horse and called fel' Sol 'I'homas to come 'lith hi" body as leng as " r"il and" head on him like a bull dog with his tail querled Over his baok. An' we set there a ill] nute or two and he said, "Hell , he ain't Gl.-comin I , let's go. " An' 1 said, "i/ell you got the reins. " So We wont on up to Mr. Hardin's and \'le played music ' til ' bout 11 :00. An' I'd forgot all about it and VJe had to COllIe th"ough a little lane to the graveyard like we went in. An' we got up there, why I seen somethin' comin' down from this old wan's grave, but I wouldn't say nothin'. I just waited to sse what he'd say. So when he got up in front of his hOl'ss about, Dh, I guess, five or six steps, ho said," Looka younder, hell, what i. that." An' I .aid, "I don't knovi wh"t th"t i.s." An' it Callle right on up beside of us and \Ie turned the curve, Vlh.y hit just turned I<i th U8 "nd we got up there in the graveyHrd why I just retched around and got the reins and pulled the horse back and Hto!-,ped. An' I s(Oz, "I'm gonna shoot th"t thing." An' he s",id, "No you '/On't neither," said, "hem, George Sealey'll shoot us. \'[e got to pas. his house." An' his old dog \'laS barkin'. Said "He'd shoot us just as shore as the \lorld if you shoot that ole pistol." Well, we started on and \Ie Vlent down, down the hill frem the graveyard and VIe had to 01'008 a stream of water, just a small stream (baokground noIse is sheets on bed rustUng) and the horse just splattereel the vlater and went on aoross and vrhen--an' l'uz a-vlatching, 't'I<\1Z right sIde e' the horse--and it just .jumped the vlater,looked like, and vrhen he got aoress why I just retched 'an "round and got the reins and stopped him again. An' I said, "I'n, a-gonna shoet that thing." An' he said "You're net t' shoot It neither," said, "Goorge Sealoy'd shoot us just shore "S you do." An' hl B old dog came down the hill barkin' a t Us 25 An' he id, "Let's get away from here." So I never shot at it. We went off and left it, it, well it follered us part of the waV to the corner of the garden. I don't know what it Was and neVer know'd since but I reckon it was the Almighty uh, sho"in' him wh.t he could do. I've always been "shamed of it. UTi': What did it look like? WTP: liell, it 'uz just like he called for. It looked l1.ke " dog only its body WaS as long "s a rail and its tail was ~uerled over its back and it had had a head on it l1ke !J. bull dog just like he called for 'Lt. It's the truth, Tommy, if I ever told itt RTP: Whewl Man, I tell youl (Part of the oonvers,.tion is left off the tape at this point, evidently because the recorder had been turned eff to let tee informant rest betvlecn stories and, Vlhon turned back on, did not Wal'm up fast enough) li'1'P: I'll not tell Vlhat side he'uz on, nOl [('1'1": Hn ha ha VIT!': 'hat'll not do set so Vie 11. vlell , he got captured'course. They oa.ptured hi.m, him and a mB,n by the name of Brad 1'0 lk, and he'uz a hump-backed ffi.9.n, and they oapturod him . 'l'hey stripped all hIs clothos off and put this, I mean his unHorrn (sheets moving in baekr,round) and put on him some old clot.hes, t.hro'led 'ern across a old mula, no saddle ner no blanket. An' they'd go from one, t.ransfer from one plaoo to another, you know. An' uh 80 he'd have to ride that old mule and they tied his logs under the mule's belly 26 keep him from getting off. An' uh just like a saddle girth, you know. An' 'course it just wore 'im out nearly. An' uh it went on fer several days and they uh I guess I want to leave th~t off, but no, I'll go ahead and te 11 it, too. They drove, rode up to a place one day and a-hem but, before that uh they had him and Polk tied to a stump olose to a OOrn pile in the edge of a old field and ub a neighbor, a friend of bis that'uz on tbe other side had belped to oapture 'im, why he OOIl,e told, to 'im and told him one morning, sez, they're gonna kill you in the mornin , at the sound of' the bugle. He said," Vlell, 1 figered tbey's doin' something," sez, "they're digging a hole out yonder." An' he said "They're digging a bole to bury both of you," sez, "I'm sorry Bill," but sez, "it's just one ef the>se thtngs." An' uh and j 1. \'as PhDi p Odom. An' he askel! Phil1 p to untie 'im and let him walk around a little and he sez, "I can't de> that," nez, "It's agin the rules." Went on and the old captain at the little table writing--they had a folding table, you kno\-,, they carried aleng vlith 'em and humm. So he said, he said, "Now, I cRn't let you up." He said, "Well, go ask him again." An' said he looked up OVal' his specs, he s.. id,"\~ell, yes if you don't let 'im got away," but Bez, "you better not let him get aWay." I, there's a oorn pIle and he said piled up where they had been feeding the horses. An' he 8a1dt"l just wlilnt to walk Iilround thIs oo,'n pilei' he'uz bearfooted, and he walked Iilround thlt corn pHe three--four timBs gettin' his legs limbered up and he'd get a little further from the corn pUe evel'y time. An I l'hil ip Odom Bald, "New, 27 Bi 11, I See Hh.. t yeu' re [';onn.. do. I don't 'Nanna ki 11 you," be so. id to him, "Oom" [';0 b.. ck nOH, you' .." fur "nougb." An' be s.. id that he looked str.. ight .. t him and he didn't have his gun up like he'uz gonna shoot him ..no. he kicked hie gun out of hin hand. An' "hen he done tbat he broke to run right dovlll through a old field wbere they'uz i'eedin' tbe horeee. An' said they H.. on' t any abooting B. t him and he sai.d he guessed there Here fifty Shoots fired Ilt 'im or m".vbe more. He had no idea but he Rai.d them that Has down in the edge of the Vloods feedin' the horses they'uz gettin' behind trees (Laughter) that he, they never teched 'im. An' he said he run and he run and he run' till he give out and he run down a big guIley an' uh he Seen a sink-hole in that guIley I ike a fox den or some thin ' 0' other and he run into that. An' it' uz sandy an' said ho run in so deep he like to h'lVe not got out when it seellled like he could hear tbe borses feet runnin' over the ground, you knO\1. Oome to find out it'uz his heart beatin' he'ue, scared so bad. An' so he etayed in tbere 'till he know'd it was night and he come out, looked at the Sta.IS, [lnd Seen which a-way to go, a.nd he didn't knoH 11hioh a-way: <to go, he said, hardly eitber. But he finally rElwbled around and got Hi th his regilJJent an' get aHay th.. t fHlay. But tbey bung; 'im over there at Old Harrican the other side of rlilledi,eville and he s.. id he 1<lent around .. no. around and around and around and \1hen he get devm they let him deHn, .Vlhy he couldn't t ..lk. An' they, he got up on his hands ..no. knees ..no. they asked him Hhere 28 his regiment ~laS and he said he told 'em the truth and they didn't believe it, An' uh he said one ef 'em said, "Nake him talk er kill 'im," An' one ",1' ',~m hit' im it) the, between the shoulders wi th the butt of the gun and uh so he said he made up a lie and told 'em and they believed thet, 'lie 11 , they carne on down aoress the middle of the creek, down there and they'uz gonna kill old *n Pitts, An' he hollered when uh the mule went into, there ~Il"dn I t no bridge there an,d the mule he said the water was pretty deep, run up on his side, An' said he thought he'd holler and let aId m~n Pitts wake up where he oould run off, An' uh he did and said the old oaptain said if he hollered ,ury another time said, "Shoot' im," He s"id he never hollere<l any more. Well, they carne en up there then te Gran Smith's old plaoe. An' course you don't know where it ie, but 1 de, and they get his daddy eut and he fought 'em te the very last but they kille. 'im. 'rhey, they had a time that dRY' I'lell, he got a"lay and got baok to his regiment, finally, An' after he got back >Ihy, , , 'IIell, while he'uz 11t the corn pile he said there's twe of the prettieat girls he nearly ever Ileen come thore lookin' at him and J1rad folk and said it Oame a rain that night and Brad Polk WaS so hUlllp (sheets moving) shou Idel'ed an' the Wntel' get mud, got so soft it dug out a hole and it'ld splash it, you knew, when he'd go baok, 'I'hey ha<l their arms tied together an' so he said that they uh \'Ihen one would raise the other'un'ld hr<ve to rai.se up. So he sa.id he never did know what became of Polk, he reckon'd they killed him. 29 But them eirls came there. They looked they stepped te light their pipes--they didn't have no matches much be\ck them da.ys and they had pipes, big pipes with leds on 'ern. An' they'd fill 'em up and lirsht 'ern and then let the led do>m. An' uh he said they stopped at a wOlOan's houee. , ',J He said he didn't no >Ihere, "he the woman W"I'. An' he Raid there'uz a old lady settin up it) the cornel' and two cats in the other cornel'. An'uh they stepped and lit their pipes and the regiment went on. An' uh they got a mile or two shead why they uh, them eirls corne to the dOOl' and cotnmenced lookin' a.t one another and laughing. An' he said "You ladies look like yeu've seen me before." Sez, "I think We have," said, "we "een you tied at the corn pile at a certain place." Sez, "I thought they'uz gonna kill yeu." An' he "aid that made hilO mad and he looked around ... t th... t aId lady and said "You got any c"ts and dags in here th"t you don't want burnt?" She said, "Lord-a.-mercy, you a.in't genna. burn my housel" Said he just retched and got the fire shovel and run it under the, the, in the fireplaco and got a. big shovel of coals and just strewed it all OVer the beds. An' they "aited there until it vlent to blazin'. An' said they got on their horses and started on to catch the regiment. An' "hen they got I forget hew i'Ul' he Said old captain sent 80me of them back to see what that smoke Vias doin'. An' they met' em, asked 'em "hat they'uz doin' baok there. An' he said, "ilell, 1 ain't eonna tell you a lie," said, "1 set the house a-fire. 'her,,'z t"" p;i.rls that 3 made fun of me \<hen I'uz in the cap . when I'u2 c",ptu~ed." An' s",id. "I just got mad and set the old lady's house a-1'ire." An' said he dropped his hoad dO>1ll D,nd he "",8 settin' at his little table and he said. "\1ell , I don't kno>' as I give a Goddam," sez. "I'm g"'nna burn the \;holo place up in tho morning, B.nyhol;." New. that's the WB.S they dene back in the time ",1' the Oivil vial', but they CB.Ued it a Givl! War and it'uz tho w",rst one there ever has been. Burned houses. and killed folks, and robbed and take your horses ll"ay from you an' H'fP: Have you got !lny idea ho" come It "las that he got oaptured? W'fP: Hum 'I RTP: Have you got any idea how it >Ias thB. t he got cB.ptured? Vi'l'P: Ah, he'd told, 'fommy. but I forgot, I, Hs been se long. He told me all about it but he was on Crawley's Ridge. He'uz a, a cayalry man yeu know. He rode on hor~es, they all went together then, a 'nost of 'em did and he "B." on OrB.wley' s JUdge 11i th 'ern when the >"u ended in Shiloh. He'uz the other side. aor08S the Mississippi Hiver "hen they got ne"9 that the war Was over, see it "ound up at Shileh. But uh. if it hadn't a-been for Euel a-threwin his pentoon bridge across at Shiloh and oomin' in on the RebeIs--I shouldn't have said thB. t, I don't guess--but, anyway he thr",,,ed his pontoon bridgo across the dver on thB. t and came in "'n the south side of the Bleody P",n<l they oalled it, you kno". You been there. I gue,lS, but it's a. 10>1 plaoe 31 and they said it was full of blood when the war was over. But they said they had the tankees just about \-Ihupped when he oame in on the other side of the river and throVied his pontoon bridp;" acros". Lord, 1 \-lent there wben l'uz a boy and I soon whoro tboy shot tho tops out 0' them trees just like they'd been thorn oannons you knolV'ld just shoo t ' 0m and they'd j\wt fall over. (/\t this point a visitor, Lee Brooks, Oame into the hospital rOOlli to visit Mr. VI. T. Phillips. 'rho interviolter Vias playin:, tho fil'st story baok to Iloe if tbo reoording was good a.nd the visitor listened to the story. An soon a8 the story Vias fi.ni.shed, Mr. Brooks began talki.ng and some ef the conversatien IVfl.S lest in gettinp; the tape run forViard to tbe end ef the seoond stery) \l'fP: \Yell me and this, my buddy you see, I told him about what they told on Sol 'rho!!'as and 1 told 'im they say if you call for him in any kind of sbape that's the Vlay he oorues. LB: Yoah, nolV the reason j'uz ",skin' Vlhere it Itas it, nOlt a nian nau,ed 'dright, he'uz tellin' me, be'uz talking to me one time about a bill they oalled the Sol 'i'bomas hill and it ~/as ovor, back ovor yondor somowhore towards Milledgeville or sornewher back in there. Now, I'uz ;lust a-wondel'in' if they if they was two of' 'em. (Knooking at door of room) W'fP: NG, 801 Il1homas navel" did ....... ;52 LB: Any Way Pll tell you a little, a little story my daddy tole me about Sol, this Sol Thomas business, uh they'd, the people'ld go along there by James' Wl'l': Uh huh. LB: The hill we're talking about. \'I'1'P: Yeah. LB: Well, they's see old Sol and they would He would be a-wearing a white ha~, and he'd be draggin' a chain. Well my daddy went along there a-foot one nil';ht and he'uz sbout a.-akerred. But he didn' t believe it Was old Sol Thomas and he hear'd tho ohain comin' out of the woods, came on aoroas the road urr, got in the road in front of I im and he was oleae enough by that thlle he oould 8ee his \'/hi te ha. t ,just like they sa.id it Ha.s and he said hs stopped in the middle of the roa.d. He, it, Oame toward ' im a. few more steps and ho had a stiok in his hand and he said he :just drawed baok and throwed that s tiok as hard "f' be oauld. An' \1hen be did he hi t somebody' sold steer right betHeen the horns, he said. In'p: Vh huh. LB: An' this eld steer, he was bad te get out, you know, a.nd they had him chained down, .. ohain on his foot. I reokon he got out anyway. 1'I'1'P: Vh huh. LB: An' went draggin' that ohain and uh he throwed that stiok and bit him and he found out what it Was that night. Vh, it was I f"'rgot "hether it \1as old man fune IHlliam's steer, somebody had a steer just roaming around with a ohain on his foot and uh I'I,P: \'Iell, you knel'/ Henry BLlooane believes taday that old man Henry Barnes shot Sol 'l'homas. LB: He does? W'l'P: He's tole me time and agai.n we'ul'. working togGther, he said "Why, 1'om, he just as shore sh<>t 'im as anything in the werlel." Sez tho. t' S vlherG. Vie 11. Whore thow big bills Gf woney that Arky and Ida's been s~ending up 'til thoy spent it all. LB: \'/ell, now, if he did he dane it whGn he WaS very yeung, didn't he. LB: vl'l'r: W'l' P: Yeah. LB: I don't believG he did, do you? W'l'l': I \lon' t know, I, I don't knew. I jus t, I don't knovi hov/ old HGnry \1,,9 nor I don I t know hew old Sol 'l'hemas was. LB: vie 11 , now, I thought that Sol Thelll.." get killGd during thG Civil War. LB: But, r guess. W'l'l': I thInk that Was after the Oivil Vial'. Now I v/asn't I couleln't LB: \'Iell, I'ul'. just a thinking. say positive, but . . \'/'1'1-': Yeah, well I don't think so. LB: Yell know there's an 01rl well u~ there not fur from the Sel '1'hewas hUl anel they Was t\10 lUen killed and put 1.n that dLlrlng the Oivil I'/en. I've seen the old well. WI'c': Ah, we IUZ up there one night huntin I, lIIe 'n \HlJ lard, Jess Nash and Horaoe, a-hem. We'd always build us a fire there just aoress the read. frem that old big tree and listen to the doge. Ani uh Columbus Johnson, my bretner-in-law and my nephews, they hQd been to Selmer to trade day and they oome through there and they ola imed they I a seen somethin I they didnlt know what it was, and I den't know at all, but I never did see anything up there. LB: I neVer did. WTP: Why, Lee, lid go up there by myself ana build IDe a fire and sit down an' listen to my dogs run half the night and I never did think nothing about Sol Thomas. LB: I novel' did see nothin ' VI'I'P: 'fhat's just all besh. LB: Did you evor he"r about these til> oolored. guys that went and found, they went out to get a lot of chestnuts, you know. They'uz genna divide lem. liell, uh, it w"s ... letta.haillnt talk around, you know. Vi'I'P: Dh huh. LB: An lit ~Ias d"rk. It get dark on I em and they set down close to a church house and iii gravoy,,,d. to well, in fact they set <lown by a gate that went into the graveyard, you know. Countin l to divide their chestnuts, you know. Viell, this, this ol<l guy 'he h~d, he Was a hobo, and he had went out there in the graveyard. He theught that would be the safest I,lace that 35 he could find, you know, to sleep that ni.ght. He just thought that nobody wouldn't bother him in the .gravoyard. But these guys set dOlm at the gate, dividing the chestnuts and <me of 'em would say, "rcm take this'un and I'll take that'un, you take this'un and I'll take that'un." \iell now, I forgot just how that ended up. 1'he othe:r'un sod you, you take that, you can have that'un I left down yonder by somethin' or 'nother, 1 forgot what it WaS. Well, this old hobo, he thought shore that meant him. V1TP: Yea.h. Ha ha. h". LE: He said, "By God, if you catch, if' you get me, you're gonna havo to catch. me first. Ha h" ha.. UTI': \1ho was this follow, Sol 'I'homas? LB: Huh? RTh \Iho was that guy Sol Thomas? W'l'h Well, I don't knoH, just S.. l 'I'hol""s is ,ill I knew. LB: He wa.s just a man that lived somowher in, reund in that neighbllrhoo<l. LBI Tha.t uh, he got killed, now I, I don't know really tho history of it. There's soms. W'I'F: I don't knoH it oither. LIJ: Some told that that yoke ef steer run away and it killed him, buste<l his brains aut agin that hickory and some say he WaS shot and robbed. \'I'1'!": \'/e11, Henry said he was shot but I don I t know Hhore Henry Euccane or hi s daddy, whero they' uz at, but he hud boen to Old nlrdy to Rell \'Iell , it Vias before mine and 1 never give it 9. theught. r- 1'1 LIl: \/ 1 I'I'I'F: But that Was before my day, and 1 never. LB: \1e11 , I'll tell yau if We jus t knew the his tery "r "leNe. iry oounty real good they'd be some porty good talos to be teld. WTP: Yeah, I'vo got" history an Old rurdy. LB: Ye9.h. Got there . . . It shows a pleture of the eeurt house When they h9.d a raE fence bull t around l t before they ever moved it to Selmer. LB: ~~ grandmother Brooks was Ilvlng when, at Old rurdy, Whenever thoy uh, you know, when the government forcod all these Indians to go to Indian terr!. tory. \~ell, there's a lot of 'em OOllie through Furdy and they didn't trust the white people and they never had seon no beet pickles. \1ell, the white people thel'e in Purdy wanted to be gOlld to , em, you know and &ive 'ew thin!':s. An' vlhon they glve anything to all- t they wouldn't aa t it. 'I'hey'uz afra.id it wa~ pol. son until they gl ve it to the babios and if' the babysl,i t H out they thought it sure p"ison. WI'P: Yeah. LB: An' uh n,y grandmother's f"lks, they give 'em SOllie of these beet pickles. They wa~ protty--a little sour--and they tried their babies on it and they spit it out and they 110uldn't e9.t 'ew at all. Now they drove them Indians through in herds, you might say, 'In' uh drave 'em t" the Okl"h-, the Oklahoma reservation. 1 believe there n:ay have been another one, toe. 1 bolieve there is 'In Indian reservation 57 @n the Mississippi, aren't there? R'rp: I don I t know f I!'he only One I kno\" a.bout LB: I think there is a certain tribe living dewn there. HTP: Oou Id be. LB; 'fhey Was. 'l'hey' z some, I don' t know whether they're Ohocktaws or what, what tri.be they are here in east 'tennessee that uh, that ~Iouldn't go. 'they wouldn't soll out and lel<ve and the army just, they just kinda overlooked 'em and I< 1'e\1 of ' eu. stayed up there and there's still several thousand up there somewhere. 1/'1'1': \~ell, they run the Indians out and the Indians was a credit to the Nir;gers. LB: Ain't that the truth. It just takes just a few Ni.ggers tEl ruin anything. Very few. .... c. (:) '\ At the time of this interview I found myself without a proper Release sheet, so I have improvised this with what was available in the hospital. I:; ; 1 !1,"(', Ii' \ Iii, ';,J ;'. ~ ,,' \ ':;; -J , I),,' ;, ;,11::/ I::,j' ,Vi 1\ .'.V') i'.f'.' lInd: 'i"'I' h:; ~;1 ..'.' t' , ,1" (j l", \:1 \ \',ilul:J ,\_' ';'\; ~ ii;' ',',ihi In ' I. >, I') .\i; ;'~i iJ() L }\ ("'J ,I (, -, I~< l r:'~,i.:d ;c' ..iJ~".'U h;'.1 \11:'~)1i\:\ 0(; ;,';j;..d;-'h 'cH td (i/i"il!l:'''!. '1 I,i i:\,' I '~\ ,>'<1 UI,\ poqr( (,Jd, ,I: ll'l/-';i I:'} i,l';: :1.', \ ".:; j j ':'i'i'\, ,-,I r i L( ~ d ( iI"., ~ ckil '),ldl. C\ liT(' ~,l :! i (.hi :t i!i. ,": \ ".:' }! i ',n' i (','\"j" I'i! "";-',;jnh~ J,\V" j' ..-"'''!! i" f\li'j"?!'1 U \,',,/ ~ I c. I rd~q. ",,'j i:;i,\h,\" \;',1 ::\(';>,1" ii ",i,)'.) '"", , ... 40 Miscellaleous stories B'rom My Ohildhood The Golden Screw There was a little boy one time who was born with a golden screw in his belly-button. All his lire he wondered why he had it. He asked his parents wha tit was f'or and they told him not to "sk, but never bother it or something tel'rible would h"ppen. When he was all e;rown up he asked everyone he mot about the golden screw and most people said he shouldn't ask but f'or him not to bother it or something terrible 'lOuld happen. Finally he met an old man who told him if he wanted to know what it was for he should go to Egypt and get on top of' a certain pyramid at midnight on a oertain night and lie down on his baok with his head to the east. But he advised him not to do it or something terrible would happen. 'rhe boy was too curious. He followed the i.nstructions and at exactly 12:00 a huge sorewdriver came down out of' the clouds and unsol'ewed the sorew. Vlell, the boy "as overjoyed to be rid of' it. He hopped up and stal-ted to leave, and his butt fell of'f'1 Girl and the Monster One night a very rioh girl "as staying at her large home alone "hIle her parents "ere away. She invited a friend to visit her and spend the night. That night a terrible storm Came up and the girls heard the f'ront door open downstairs. Soon they heard f'ootsteps and heavy breathing on the st~irs and in the halL Terrified, they jUlilped from the bed. 'rhey clas ped hands and wade a run for it down the "ide, curving staircase. I'lhen the little girl got to the bottom of' the stairs, she still had her i'riend I s hand, but the f'riend "as gone. Girl 'e Dorm One tiu,e a girl's school had been having trouble wi th prowlers and attackers in tbe dormitory. 'l'he girls Vlere advised to keep their doors tightly closed from sundoVin to sunup and not to open thorn for any reason. Ohe nig;ht a girl Vias in bor room and hoard a "f"urgle-gurglo", scratobscratoh- soratch outside her door. Remembering tbo order, she sat quietly in her 1'00'0 all night without moving to open the door. All night she heard the "gurgle-gurgle" Bcratch-scratoh-scratoh outside her door. At daybreak the "gurgle-gurgle" scratch-soratch-scratch had quieted down a great deal. So Vlhen it Vias oo~pletely light, she opened the door. On the floor sho found the mangled body of a girl from across the hall Vlho had been vainly trying to get help all night Vlith her throat split froln ear to ear. At the Beaoh On time tViO pretty young girls Vlere vacationing at the beach. 'l'hey met a couple of nice sun-tanned young Inen and made a date for that evening. The Inen picked them up and they went to a nightolub, but in a short time the girls realbed that it 'Vlas a Negro night club and their dates Vlel'e not tanned vlhi te men, but Negroes. 'fhey excused themeel ves to the restroom vlhere they could hear the party getting; vlilder every minute. They decided to h'y to eSOa pe by the litUe \dndoVi in the restroom. One of the I',irls climbod over and then the other started cliuJbing up. Suddenly something 'started pUlling on her leg, "I can't p;et out, she whispered, someone's pulling on my leg," Just like I'm pulling you I'S, noVi I \)., \ ( f l..A" ( \ ' ) ,} / A PDF transcript exists for this recording. Please contact an archivist for access. Professor John Burrison founded the Atlanta Folklore Archive Project in 1967 at Georgia State University. He trained undergraduates and graduate students enrolled in his folklore curriculum to conduct oral history interviews. Students interviewed men, women, and children of various demographics in Georgia and across the southeast on crafts, storytelling, music, religion, rural life, and traditions. As archivists, we acknowledge our role as stewards of information, which places us inaposition to choose how individuals and organizations are represented and described in our archives. We are not neutral, andbias isreflected in our descriptions, whichmay not convey the racist or offensive aspects of collection materialsaccurately.Archivists make mistakes and might use poor judgment.We often re-use language used by the former owners and creators, which provides context but also includes bias and prejudices of the time it was created.Additionally,our work to use reparative languagewhereLibrary of Congress subject termsareinaccurate and obsolete isongoing. Kenan Research Center welcomes feedback and questions regarding our archival descriptions. If you encounter harmful, offensive, or insensitive terminology or description please let us know by emailingreference@atlantahistorycenter.com. Your comments are essential to our work to create inclusive and thoughtful description.