Renee Sadai interview with Berl S. Lipshitz

The John Burrison Georgia Folklore Archive recordings contains unedited versions of all interviews. Some material may contain descriptions of violence, offensive language, or negative stereotypes reflecting the culture or language of a particular period or place. There are instances of racist language and description, particularly in regards to African Americans. These items are presented as part of the historical record. This project is a repository for the stories, accounts, and memories of those who chose to share their experiences for educational purposes. The viewpoints expressed in this project do not necessarily represent the viewpoints of the Atlanta History Center or any of its officers, agents, employees, or volunteers. The Atlanta History Center makes no warranty as to the accuracy or completeness of any information contained in the interviews and expressly disclaims any liability therefore. If you believe you are the copyright holder of any of the content published in this collection and do not want it publicly available, please contact the Kenan Research Center at the Atlanta History Center at 404-814-4040 or reference@atlantahistorycenter.com. In the interview, Berl Lipshitz talks about his childhood in Latvia. He speaks of being separated from his parents at a young age and living as unpaid apprentice. Berl recalls how Jewish traditions were observed in Latvia versus in the United States, where he immigrated at 18. Rabbi Joseph Cohen talks about Sephardic-traditions in Spain. Rabbi Sidney K. Mossman tells the story of a Yiddish play by Agnon; explains Kabbalah, Jewish mystic learning; and talks about European and Jewish superstitions associated with weddings and death. An unnamed man reads basic French vocabulary words, followed by quiet pleading and sobbing. Berl Lipshitz (1887-1974) was born in Zrisik, Russia, where he lived until he was 18. In 1905 he immigrated to New York and then, sometime before 1914, to Atlanta, Georgia. He worked as a commercial salesman at a junk shop. He married Pauline Mollie Lipshitz (1887-1982), and the couple had three children, Irving James Lipton (1912-2004), Sara Rosenberg (1916-1989), and Nathan Lipton (1910-1998). Atlanta Jews; Collecting Project A Look at Eastern European and Jewish Folkore There is a fairly large Jewish connnunity in the city of Atlanta that provides much material to thC3 folkorist. I have Harked with theee infomants of Je,;ish origin who have given some insight into the Jewish HOW of lifC3. Mr. Berl Lipshitz of Latvia is the fist informant and perhaps major informant of the report. He is a seventy-nine year old man of Latvian birth. Rabbi Joseph Cohen of the Or Ve Shalom synagogue of Atlanta offers an informed look at the Jews of the Levant, the Sephardic Jews. And Rabbi Sidney K. Mossman of the Shearith Israel Synagoue of Atlanta grew up in Windsor Canada, but in a Je,rish community akin to ,{ '/ an Easten European Stet!. I also got an old Russian song from Paul GrC3gory Professoll1 of Russian at G<3orgia State College. Although this song is Russian rather than Jeuish it supplements our knot~ledge of Eastern Europe. Mr. Lipshitzz.'s interviffi'l runs from 007 to 648 on side one of my tape. Mr. Gregory's song :runs from 674-688 on the tape. He is nC3H to the United States and self conscious about his English so I ,ITate dmm his comments. Rabbi Cohen sings from 694-810 songs of the Sephardim. His background remarks were::.wrttten. The intervie" of Rabbi Mossman was entirely 'ITyten out due to tecnical difficulties. The report is organized according to informant, and I haVe tried to be as accurate as possible in transcrining their words as ,Tell as their thoughts. ::Ii When did you leave Latvia? He: In 1905, MOW, 1905. ; I; And this is before Latvia is a country? He: Oh yeah, tll.at Has before Latvia was declared de facto and then the Ural vIas in 1920 Or 21. I'm not sure about that. I think in 1918 they became in control and they still celebrating now November 18j;h is their national -, 2 and the poople that came here the Latvians, not the Je1dsh people. That's the Latvians. Christians. They're all Lutherans. They are celebrating November the 18th as a national holiday because that "Tas their origin like our Declaration of Independence.}:And even nOli 1,hile they're partIof Russia they still celbrate itc? He; Oh yeah, November the eighteenth. I'm invited to them now. I'm the ibldest ore of them heIrn. I: Oh, even in this country( celebration of independence) He: Here in Atlanta I: When you left Latvia, what tmm in Latvia 1,ere you from? He: Vnvend. ( Then he spells it) I: And ,That kind of Jelfish comllunity He: The nffine of the stae was Lifland. I: And 1.hat kind of community of Je1,rish people? ~Jas that a large Jeldsh comnunity? He: Town was a small town altogether too. It was only about 5 Or 6,000 population. I: Is this,would this be cons:id ered a stetl? Is that right? He: That's right. It wasn't a Je1dsh stetl you knOt". It was a Ch.ristian country. That's all. There ,Tas JelTS and none of He old ones were ever born there. But my father C8J1le tllere in 1862. I: \'Jhat about your mother? HE: Motller and Ftaher married in about 1884. I ,Tas born 1887. But they married in Lithuania ani I ..as born actually in Lithuania. And the pllace burned dO'1ll shortly after that. E'ather used to come t1dce a year home. He "as peddling in Latvia, ..aht you called now in Lifland and I was 1dth Mother in state ..That you call KOVTla, that Lithuanian state, capital of Lithuania. And eh, I yas actually born I 1-Tas told three days in Av. I: 'Ene third dya of Av. ( JeHish month) He: Third day; yeah, but according to the way I traced it it amounts to Rbout to I call it 7/11/ 18817. Ynat's when I was born, uh, huh. ( Notice tIle predominance of 7 and 11 in the dates. AreN't these numbers significant in all folk cultuiJes along .nth 3 and a feH others?) I: But you gre"T up in Latvia? He: Yea11, oh yeah. After I 1'1&9n I t quite h,,~f a ye ar old Hhen I.e moved from there. The place had burned d01-1n, and Father took Mother and me and ,;ent d01ffi to Latvia, l,hat they called Lifland. That was close to 1'1here the trding used to go. on. I: What kind of trade He: Just a peddler, notions dry goods. Little dry goods would be by order, by placing orders. But he lms just peddling notions lnth a pack on his back. It used to be a box made up in 8.bout four inches deep, you kn01 Little things, combs, needles, thread, l'T atever the farmer needed. It 3 "asn't in the city. He didn't peddle in the city. I: He uorked 'vith the farmers? He: He uorked alnong the. faI'llB rs. I: And were these Jffi~_sh farmers? He: '>Ina? I: The farmers. He: Oh no, there "ere no Je,!ish farmers. Jewish p80ple couldn't oun a pie ce' of land there ( True untll modern times in Europe) I: Were these peasants or big farmers? . - He: Oh 11ell, they ,rere not big farmers. They,mre just farmers more or less they "ere. I would call them sh.arecroppers. That's about what it would amount to. Very feu mmed land too you mo.r, quite a few. But most of them ,rorked for the barons. ( still rather feudal) See the Germans originally 'lay back it "'as German country. Still further back it ,las S"leden. The Latvians have a history upato';filoi1t"!1';OOO years, 8,000 or 9,000 ~years. Quite a bit more than the Jewish religion is. They all migrated fran India. 'rhe origin of Latvia is Indian. But ",h.-eon they came over in the glacier .years they separated. Some ",ent uhat they call nm, Finlland. And some ,lent to lhrngaria. They both speak the same language and differ!l4\,t dialects a little from Latvians. But they all came' originally And there alot of wOIlds today's very languages is Indian'"10rds,. ( He must have read some history and history of language, for his general information seems correct from what I can gather) I: TI1at's ver~ interesting. He: For instance, bread- }laize is English ",ord but English took it from the Indians too. I: Yes, probably uhen the English Here in Irrlia. He: The English pe ople took it from the Indians. I: So your father really uorked lnth Christain people r1nore',' than Je,nsh people He: Ee "as m.aking his momy exclusively among, never ,Tmade' a;dilllne:,nth any Jeuish people., and may I say. I can say I'm proud of it, and may not, I don't knm-J. I'm proud of it though. But I have never made a dollar among Jewish people to 8l1lount to anything. I believe tbe biggest money I made actually direct from Jenish people, "as from Daddy( my father) $200 commission by selling him a house. Isn't that right? ( 11y Father h ughs from the next room) Mn't That right. Dad: Yeah, that's right. He: That's the best I remab.(r. (Hy Father and I both Laugh) I: Did you live in a JSlnsh part of tmffi or "ere H'ere not enough Jews~ Ii" I 5 He: Oh ..,ell, the tmm Has just scattered. It Hasn't just. It l;as no ghetto, you !mOHo No ma'am. No. No. One lived here, you !mow. One lived there, scattered out. It wasn't.'ehe Jewish and the Gentiles got along there very, very nicely. During tie time in the Czar died, the first Czar Nicholas died. I remeber when the younger one uas inaugerat~ in 1896, I think it Has. I mast have been nine years old. Then l;hen the trouble sta:bted l.hen he was inaugerated. He forced Bll the Jel\'3lsh people who ,.mre not in Latvia, what they call nO\-T, at that time still Lifland you !mow. I'm speaking of under the Russian regi,'1le. He forced them to evacuate, leave that country to uhere they belonged, l-There they originally came from. So my Mother, -~ had to leave that place and tIE children had to leave Hith her. But Father since IE Has there since 1863, he had a legal right to stay there because that's Hhere he wanted to make his living. He couldn't do anywhere else. But 110ther Hent bale to 'Hhere she came from, the little tmm, and two of my sisters lmet Hith her. The younger one and I remained there because I l-ras then in a s'ense I '-'as a slave for four years there. 'fhat is true. The reason ,.,hy I could stay there because I Has actually under a contract Bnd Has recorded at the Police Station, B.nd I couldn't leave Hhen I ,-ranted nor could my Father get me back. It Has actually a written contract. I: That you belonged to sOnEone else? He: I didn't belong but I nas slaving for somebody, a Je,.Tish Man to learn a trade. I: Like an apprentice? He: Like an apprentice. That's right,for four years. The salary ..ras in American ,money::$25 for the four years, and something to eat and sleep l;herever you can. I: P.n:l l-That did you learn? What kind of trade? He: Hake uppers of shoes. The uppers only. that !'Jas kind of a high tone trade in those days. And nith that I cmne to this country. I mean Inth that profession. I: After fom' years? He: 1'Iell no, I carne after eight years. I came here uhen I uas eighteen years old. I went to Hork Hhen I !'Jas ten. The fall of the year Hhen I was ten years old, full ten years old, But I "rorked alread:7,haIf a year before Il,as ten years old, learning trad.e of Hatching,. But that job, gave a, fired me. There vlaS no contract .Tith thB.t jo]j. The custom Has I uas supposed to be nursing a baby, l-Thatever it nas homework fal' Friday or Saturday for a Jenish woman '"Tho was jest married, had a young baby. J'll1d I Hould take the baby out on Friday in a carriage and let her make Sbabos ( Even the poorest JM made the Sabbath special, involving special preparations on Friday) But I brought tha baby home '"lith blue marks on her body for pinching for crying you know. I thought she I d keep quiet. And a ten year old b;\lY, uhat could I do? And they fired me. I: Was it. nonnal for a small by to talee care of ababy? He: Oh yeah, ten years oId in a family. One ten vTill talre a 'ally, two, three months old and she'll sleep in the carriage. Time for eating bring her in. That's nothing unusual here either is it? 6 I: No. He: Oldest child ta1(es care of it. That's nothing unusual. I: That's right. He: But that was usual. The trade WaS toe first year, you .rere called in Gennan errand blby you know. 1,n,atever , ,whatever you want to do something send to the store or 1vash windOl,s if you c an. There I s nothing on the second floor. They all lived on the main floor, most of them. ( Typical one story folk dHellings) Ani, eh, look after things you knOi". vfnat's left of the time, you start leariJing tb.e trade, you know. But that's very far fetched, ;rou knOl', four or six: months at least now. I: Was there mush of a Jewish life? Was there a schull or a cheder? ( a synagogue or a Hebrew school) He: Yeah, they had a schull. The rabbi "as the teacher, the rabbi from the community there, and he used to teach'the childl'en. He paid in American money two and a half dollars for six: months, five rubles. That 1vaS his pay for each semester, you knOl". From Easter to Rosh Hashonah, from Passover to Rosh Hashonah ",as considered one season, and after Simchas Torah to Pesach was considered one season. And eating, .,ell, it might be I don't Hhat b.e will look at it. For Hhatever ( He's talking about the folklore teacher Hho Hill heeI the tape) I'll tell you about it. That's tffi reason about it and I'll tell you about. I don't knOl" "hether you'll 1-rant to put it in or not. I: Anything He: I actually "as raised on a farm some 12, 15 wiless aHay from town and !'lother taught me HebreH. When I 'i7asn't quite six: years old I kneH by heart the "fir Kashes'" ( Four questions asked at the Seder of Passover by the yougest child present) and explained axactly what it "as. And I me,r the Hhole, the Hebre" reading, and Hhen I was tken to the Rab'oi end he said kind of listen to Hhat I have to say. Can you understand Yiddish? I: A little bit. He: Before he hired me. Kind of took me under his 1'rings and eh he was quite pleased and quite surprised that I had Ie erned as much as I had done from my mother. at that time before I ever started. I still remember when Daddy threw are cent over my head. That's the custom, the old Je1-rish custom. Ask your Grandfather. I don't knOH if he remembers that. I: Throlving a pelll~? He: A penny for if you're good, you ImOloJ when you've made an examination you ]mow and you've passed. It wasn't an examination, but just to find out, to pass check on you, to rear ,,hat you have to say. It was good and naturally good or not good, te just do that to encourage the child a penny. That was the old custom. They Here very poor people. 11y Fatl:erand Mother Here very poor, and Ila d to go to cheder. Your grarld.father don't Imo1-1 Actually @addyNouldn't mOH. I used to eat days, what you call in English, in Je,rish ' essen tags" " A boy that "as from parents 1-1ho "ere unable to pay for his board, community gave him a day in each Heek. In other words, ill your house, I'd be Monday, and in a neighbor's house I'd be Tuesday, and soms1i7here else, another street, Wednesday. Everyday in a different place, but sleeping Has in the same place. 7 I: And this is the "my tl",e com, unity took care of boys Hho couldn 1t afford it? He: That's right, that wasn't able. I: But, you still went to the same school as everyone else? He: Oh ;I'es, same rabbi. Father paid for the rabbi, yeah. But the eating didn't cost me nothin' the first year, but later one we m,:aved to the city ,;here I stayed there. I must have been aboilt eight years old, two years after. l-1oved to the city, and of course, then stayed with Hother and Father" I: An:! that ,'las still a cheder, or was, that a higher school? He:OIeder? Cheder 1-laS the same 'cheder before. In too rabi's house ,..as the cheder, but I OI'~y "Tent to eat in different places, and sleeping I slept \-lith a family that was just friends instead.of eating there, tl1ey gave me the whole week's smeeping. And I think oreakfast, I used to eat there. That's right, I think I used to eat breakfast in the same place I think. I: Did all the Jewish boys go th cheder? He: Oh yeah. Rich and poor. Same place for everybody. Five rubles a month, a season. I: And ,;ere too girls given a JeHish education? He: No girls Hent to Cheder. Not in those days. I I: HOH did your mother learn so that she could teach you? He: Well soo Cam3 from a family that her brother Has a Hebre.. teacher. He died very young, and I ern actually named after him. SOO married after he Has dead. She Has the youngest, I think. There "ras quite a feH people oore and up until afe.r years ago I used to visit them in Philadelphia. I used to go and see the lady with whose paople I used to slmep, the daughter of that family, you ImClt'r. - I: That you stayed with when you 1vere in cheder? He: That's :bight. I must have been eight years old ",hen she married. I: You .iere Bar Hitzvahed in Latvia? He: Oh yes, the Bar Mitzvah there 1;as just a simple thing, just like my children here. They didn't knot-r about parties or presents or anything like that. ~lere no sorts of things. It was just the reading. It was just the reading to give an aliyah( going to too Torah and reading), and that's the end of it. If he can read the Maftir ( the section of the Torah to be read) it's all right. If he didn't there was no harm done, no embarassment, nothing. He wasn't hurrQliated at all. I: Did parents give any kind of party? He: No ma'am. They "auld come from schull and neighbors take in there to maim b'rocha ( prayers) I don't knOH if you iinierstand ,-rhat it means. Well, just invite them to come in and have a drink you kno", or a piece of cake or a glass or wine but nothing Hhat you hear or see nouadays. ,----------------- - -- --------- -- ----------------------. 8 I: ';That about a tiris ( circumcision "hen JeHish bay is a week old) or a "edding? Was there much of a fuss made over them? He: The hupa ( canop;y over the altar) is the same story here as it was there. But that's all. Whoever had money he made a little bigger. It Has no hotels or anything like that. That is I'm speaking of the little tmrns you kna'1, where there is only thirty five families. Now "hat is vrhat if .las in cities rlhere tOOre ,;as several thousand families I don't knOH. But I "as to a Hedding in Riga, the capital of Latvia which is 400,000 people at that time, and there Has auedding a family that converted from Christianity to Judaism. That was in 1920. I have their photographs They had children up to 16, 18 years old. He nas a shoemaker and during the ,-rorld Har He nas 1'1ell informed on the Bible you knOl. and he read Ten Comnandments, and he declared if war would, ever be over, there nill ever _become a Latvia, that he Hants to get convert himself and family to too Jewish faith, and 00 wants to go to Israel, Palestine at that time they calle d Palestine, Has no IsraeL "lInd he was married and I lias to his wedding. I: And Was it a big Hedding?' . He: A big 'wedding. They had militia out. T'ooy Here afraid there ,Tas going to be a :pogrom. They were afraid. And I'll be frank with you. PJ.though I was an American citizen I rTas hesitant a little bit about going there, but it Has everything perfect. I: Did you ever see a pogrom? He: No, no. I: And h01, "ras the lredding? He: Oh the weddil'\5 was a tremendous thing. i'las the biggest schull. They didn't have that kind of chazan(canter) here in Atlanta. Rashasky was at that time in Higa. Tremendous. They wanted me to be " unterferin" Now I don I t know how youMaybe Daddy ImOl;s. I think thet 's too one that gives aHay the daughter. Ah, Ifill? "VThat is unterferin in a chasan? ( joyous ewnt) Isn't that like giving <!Way the daughter? Father gives m;ay the daughter? Dad: Sounds like it. I'm not sure. I: vIe can jus t use the Hebr81-T. He: It '!ad something in COIlJ1ection .rith it and they asked me to do it. And I the best as I could remember at that time that a man that is married does not take unterference "rithout his rrife. So the Rabbi there passed a special 1m; that since the w"ife rTas in America; and I Has in Europe visiting in 1920 that that doesn't apply to me. I told him that may be interpreted so under his law, it's not my law that Hay and I didn't accept it. I didn't do that I: Because you didn't feel it rTas right? He: It "as wrong. Definitely. "Thy: should I? It malees no difference lrife is across the street or sbmeHhere else. If I'd been divorced of course I'D have done it. I iIlidn't take it. I didn't know rrhat they thought of me, but I didn't do it. At that time I "as just exactly eleven years married married in 1909. So eh, then after the dinrer that nas in the schull. Tremendous thing. They had militia all around. Th6'J were prepared for it 9 Nothing "ent on. Ell then they b-ad a supp"r, a dinner in a Jeuis restaurant. llmd he actually made kiddish ( Olessing),.ohomhepe-halah ( special, tlflsted bread) He kmm HebreH. He actually studied it. He actually learned it and ever-,ything. Not like here you go and hand a rabbi tr.lenty five dollars and he gives a certificate. It uasn't that 'lay. He actually uent through with all the Jel'Jish ceremonies. He was in the hospital. His son was sixteen years old. The girl I think was eighteen. I have their pictures. I even have the history, the biography oJ!! ,Jhy, the explanation. I invited hiJn next day or tuo days later and I had a lady was taking d01'm in German l;hat he said. \'fuy have you decided to become a J81'l? Hhat prompt you? Ani he gave me two reasons, and l:hat are ;,rou going to do nOll. and all that stuff, you !mOt;. But I haven't got that papel' no more.'L'lost it in a suitcase. The Kleii'ls in Hiami burned d01m in 1936 I >Tas in Cuba and I le;f!t the suitcase,Jith various papers and that's gone. But I 'got the pictures. I bad tmm in a different place, and I got 'em. I : \'1puld you say that a good percentB,ge of the Jeuish people Here invited to the Hedding? .' He: There's no imitations to a uedding there. They all cane .Hith the exception, you knovllJith thirty five families, you got to have ten people for a minyan ( group for formal prayer must include at least ten men over thirteen) to begin ;Jith and naturally very poor people uouldn't go. They probably felt- they - most of the Hedding that I've seen Has very poor people and it was kind of a pot luck proposition, you lmoH. Everybody brought something. USUally the ueddings there 'ilould be in the fan of the year after tbe soldiers were relaesed after t~ey served three years and eight montru,. Ani they got acquainted there and the girls got married there. If you hadn't seen very many ueddings. I've seen a few., uhen I was a kid. The kids used to throw in. There Hasn't such a things as an invitation or anything. Probably the elder people I rememr my father used to help them cook you !mow and serve you !mOHo Everybody put in a hand to help em you !mow. But that all. this I don't, kn01; Hhat can help in any uayEh, That's mHell:eh Form of life in some parts of the N'orld. What that could help in a college I don't !mo;,. ( He questions the v31ue of his remarl;:s as appropriate for a college) I: Well, there are same people Hho are very interested He: Just curiosity or just like ,rhen I asked my Daddy to come over here. Il;ent, came afte!!! them to bring them here. ( on the visit in 1920) And he gave me the reason Hhy he don't uant to come. I just had to shut up lmot'ling it 1,;ras right. He said we read the papers here. He know just hO;1 you people live in America, he sa;is. I'll be coming over lflth you. I can't talk no English You ge,t a boy ten years old now, one eight, and a girl six. I'll have slot, of children aroui'ld me. They'll call them in snd say Grandpa is here from the other side of the uorld, and they'll come in and I'll be, he says, like the monkey, and look at me. Of course, he says they Houldn't have sense to come over and shake hands with me. He kne1-T ana it is some true. And then the biggest tt>.ing he gave me a reason was. He said all right he says all right. He didn't, say all right you knOH He says what they say iln America" bad ham" You've got a gosd Hife. The children art:' oke,V ~ The there. But you sit in the living room, you'll geo company 10 Tea <Till be served or coffee or cake, and my ,ille <muld come over to them and say Father in ~rman, means the $aille thing as in English, nl,ouldn't ylilu have a glass of tea.with us?" Well that Hord, "Houldn1t you" has several maanings, " Hon't you" He "Touldn't say, have a glass of tea 1,Tith us, come and have a glass of tea lTith us, come and have, join us ~ ~_withl',:1 ,',:' tea, you kno<r. But they'd come over etnd, Ivouldn1t you have a glass of tea?-H I'd te1.l themllno thanks. liRe i,fouldn't have it. I understood right tr.ere <rhat he meant. I: "ould you say that your parents were superstitious? He: No, no, no JelTish people were superstitious other than they Here just 100% faitMul in religion. But not, I don't knoH you may call it superstitious. I remeber in a foggy day or a rairw day <rhen somebody Hould come in 1-Tith sad ne1'lS or bad news or wanted to say something referring to God you lmow, t.hey'd wipes their fingers on the <Tall. Accordling to Jewish old fashioned way, you don't refer to' 'Tord'God. unless you Hash your hands and so that Has. The window was dry. It Has just a belief, you know. OthenTise, the rest of the ti ngs: For instance, eaming back from a fUl'leral, well, naturally nobody ,~uld go in a house .Tit.hout washing the hands first. And it's here too the same "ay. But they don't tear grass out as tr.e;r leave the' cemetery here, &"ld the y had to do it over there. The Cahen( memebers of the tribe of Cohen, descended from the Priests) I never "ent yet to a cemetery. I don't go into the undertaker at nobody's funeral. I: Because yours a Cohen? He: That's right, but my/son does and the rabi:Ji passed as all right I don't care 1fhat your rabbi passes, I says, He ain't as old as I am I've s'een more than had Hendel told me and I don't knotif if you kno" H.J1endel. Ti:'>.at is before your days. That was you lmmr Simon Hendel's father r Hent ilo a funeral one time. They had if you notice, have you ever been to a funeral here? Did you notice a chair under a tree right as you drive in on the right hand side, a metal chair under an umbrella, not in the cemtery , at the undertakers. You never aatiT that? It, is for t".e purpcse of a Cohen >c: to sit there. On the right hand as you drive in at Blanchard's ? 0n the right just as you pass the sideHalk. You see- on the right,of course, if it is not sunshine the umbrella is not ,opened. But if it's raining the umbrella is open, and you can stay right there. This is on the outside, right on the side"alk. I: This custom has come to this country. Pardon This custom is in this country too? He:This is the custom here and over there. too because, it( the chair) is actually three steps away from the line of the cemetery. You're not supp osed to go there. A Cohen is not supposed to go regardless of "hose body lays there. So when I go to the cemeteI"'J, I just stay on the road. See, I get out of the car and I go to "here they taken th e body from the hearse to the lot, but I don't go in that lane. I: Were there- or do you knot, any other you as a Cohen~ Or Here there ap:y things do? .~y privilJge you have? H:~;PriVil~gas? I: Priviledges that you !',ave as a Cohen? things that have influenced you ,;ere f orbililien to 11 He: Oh the privilege of a Cohen is that I don't have to make no pinyan habin to the first born if it is a boy. I: Could you e;cplain that? He: Well, that goes in the mea.lu,,"'g of Cohen is supposed to be a direct lineal descendent of Aaron, you see. Then your old Levy and as Israel ( the other tHO tribes that ,'ere not lost) they have If a man, if a girl that hasn't got nothing to do Hith the daughiller, If the daughter is a Cohen's daughter, I don't believed from that at all. It's if the man is a LaV":! or as a Israel he lIlas to make tllirty days after the bris s a Pinyan H,,~ ben He's got tc give, you call it a shetl. (,iell in this countr-:! you call it $5 Or $10 in money to tm Cohen to perform that service. The questions a.r:e of course, sometime embarassing to a girl, but you've got to ask he; is thisyour first child. And all that, that's all it is 8.nd then there is a certain service, a certain prayer, ;vou. lmo,-, and then she redeems the child ,lith that. (The Homan is really buying her first born son from a Cohen) Honever, the money that the Cohen collects , it I s up to him ,-,hat to do Hith i t.So he gives it over to tile. mother, and it's used for the first Hebre" teaching. I done it '-d.th Harold Alexander ' s,.-f1ai:Ty's son, Me architect. I give it to his Hire. She 1i.sed to room ~,ith us ,-,hen she was a girl Her aunt didn't let her in Old man, H.A. Alexander, he is about thirty years older that she is. He is ninety five, end I think she is wbout, right now, she should be about seventy., I guess. Tnat's the priviledge in that, you kno". But then, that's a religious thing. Some do that and some don't. The reason Harold Alexander had to do it. He's a Potuguese Je", you know, and he asked me., and he used to be my la"t'Yer in them days. I uish I'd never knOlm him. And he asked me one day when I came bacij fro.m Europe, you lmm' I'Jr.en I left Atlanta in '20, he wasn't married. When I came back in '21, he was married already. i'lhen I came bak in '22, I "ent there again, you kn01'. He had a son born. He had 3. briss there already. So "hen I ;-rent in the---- business I had to have him. He se.y, I'll'. Lishitz, he says, I got a little problem no". I say-s, ,-;ljat is it? He says, my ,rne's aunt, you kna,' the old mon ,-,as dead .alread;jr,.n For shhhet yafa", she claired that she "as going to claim the child unless I make a pinyan habin. And you knm" she says, I looked up in the Talmud and she is right. Yeah, he looked up and told me she is right. Nmo! can you help me find a Cohen? I Sct:!, you're talking to one ha ha ha ha. And that tickled him pink. Amiser he 1'18.5 and a miser he'll yet be And. he says do I knbH you Hhat Hhat L am up against. He said I understand you got to give some money-. I said yeah, but th"t money is up to me then to turn over or keep it. I can keep it if I "ant to Isays, usually I says, it's turned ovel' to the mother for the first, as 2. token- for': the first Hebre", teaching bf the child. I'lell, then I kind of took off a ton from his chest. He knevr, he gave me a $10 gold piece, I turned around and gave it to ber. They used to live right here on. P,mce. de Leon Avenue, acress from the Chesterfield apartment house., where they lived at that time. So that's an old, so that a , that's a record of That's not nen you knotr. These things you can find in any Je,-lish uh, high odum( Ho:iJk) That means blame. In the life of the Jen you knbw there is abook for till t I: Did your to,rn, you hmi~ tm~ have a shodtkin or Has it too srrlall to have one, a matchmaker, a shodtkin? - 12 He: Oh, the t01'm no. Hell, the shodtkin is this From the business point of vie." there never could exist one tl"Xlre. That would be inaa big city, Hhere the big ghettos is, like in Ne" York, you kn01'. But usually, eh, it Hould be the folks cause usually the folks Hould have to pass their okay on it. ac,d I don't lmow. This is a something, bring yogether and m"y c1111 itshodtkin., but that doesn't mean that you knoH. One knew young man an different tm-m, next tm-m, thirty miles a"ay "as another tmm, The same amount of Jmrish people you knoH. I,ell no, it "as more or less a mitzcah( good deed) to see that the girl is married you kn01'1. Boy comes and marries the girl.. She's just a plain, poor girl, and then they chip in for " hanoses colar". That means like here a Sh01'1er for the, for the bride. And the people make the 'i'edding. They did. They're all poor people. Very fe"l of thepl that were business pe'ople, outstanding I mean, had something, you know: There were a fe,-" yeah, but they didn't need no shodtldn. They didn't"need 'no shotgun. ha ha ha 110. ha. No to go in that. I have to mention it again. \'1hat good could that be to the . , thr institution for a grade in that line of report. I can't see it. ( Again he questions the value of thj.s intervi8\i' as it relates to school) I: liell, there are alot of people who are interested in preserving the old Hay of life, and hearing "hat it "las like. He: Well, all they have to do is go into a Je,rish library and they got it, all they Hant. Ha, ha. You take the uh in Eastern New York, ..hat you call it? Philadelpl>ia got one; NeH York has one. Tremendous, big institutions that sell in business, you knaw, sellind sidur( prayer book) or more. I needee. some books I "ranted to give to my son or my grandson on graduation. He came here as a doctor "hen he me.rried. I "anted to give him a book pertaining to ancient HebreH medical science and sure enough, they had it. Cost me $6.00 and I gave it to him. lmether he'll ever use it, I don't know. None of my business. But I gave it. Rabbi Cohen got it for me in the ( 11y Father: Or ve Shalom) Yeah. He got it for me. I: Do you rmember any stories or songs that your . mother or father might he.ve told you? He: \;ell, I'll tell you. If you'll ste.rt femling back. After all, I was aw y from }lother's apron, "mother's papa aner" when I was six years old. I remeber it IiI"" day. If I ,'1as an artist, I could draw a picture. I left her on the field gathering potatoes or carrots. Daddy had a wagon hired to take me to cheder. It "as about ten, eleven miles, maybe, from neIe to Brookhaven, maybe. But it ,-,as a long Hays to start "'alking you knoH. He took me. to cheder in.. That was after Simchas Torah. And I remecber, I ran to Mama. I didn't "ant to go lim the buggy. Daddy gonna take me ID'1ay, you know. And Mama stayed there and picked potatoes in the field and there I left her and for 'Chanuk,,"", sn01-' was already, God lmoHs ho" deep, you kn01'. Daddy used to come in every Sunday to buy his notions in toen, and natur8.ll;yhe I d see me. That I s when he used to come to the place uhe re I Has sleeping. Daddy used to come in sometimes seven o'clock in the morning, just daybreak in the winter, and he'd been Halking from home starting out three or four 0 I clock in the morning. He used to come in ,nth a beard full of snOH and ice in the lrintertime. And he took me for Charmkah. The cheder is out for Chanukah ten, eight days took me home. I never Hill forget. I Halked uith him the Hhole Hay, but it ,-,as aHful Halk, no sign, no road, you knou. Sno1'1. He lmeH the cOffiN'{ He kneu where the trees Here. He kueH "here to go, and he Sa1'T a 19 13 blinking, you Imow, a little light, he Ime" ,-;ho lives in that place. But it took us a long time before 1-1e came home that tp.~ht. Some places the snm-; Has too deep for me. He picked jlle up and carried me on his head, and I came home. I never ,Tilll forget 110ther had made l:erring cooked Hith unions and raisins and vinegar. Looked kind of like a brmm sauce, and the herring Has cooked with it., plain like cut up., regular slices of good rorring. I do it n<m. I fix it up myself. So uh, these thing, you know. Then I went back, a peddler came through, you knoo. SQme of them you go in ,-mgons with sJheds, I meen beFring dry goods, you know. So he picked me up on the Nay, and into tmm that day. There Has going back, I had a ride. But Daddy was a footman all his life. He didn't have only the later years, he did have a Nagon in summertime and a sled in the ..rinter. But othen-rise it ,-;as a foot propositi.on. I: Did your family observe tl1e JeHish holidays in the 'house? Were all the Jm-T.ish holidays otiserved in your home? He: Oh, in Eurmpe ya mean? Oh, no question about that. Hmmver, Hm;ever, the Rabbi says son ..ms I called Benny, you knot, ..hat that is. Kind of a -----, didn't believe in nothinI He'd go away S"attir.ay about a mile in the bacR of a barn, a hay barn or something, and smoke cigarettes. ( You're not supposed to smoke on the Sabbath) \iouldn't smoke in the street "here the zJeHish people S1rH him. No. He didnlt eat no ham sandinch either "hen the JeHish people sa..; him But that actually, that Has so. The rab'Ji 1 s llasson. I: "as Passover or Pesach--- He: Passover Has observed by all. I never >rill forget that either I urote to my son one "lIfe. ~Jhen was that nON? I must have been sixty years old, yeah. That must have been No I,~Has fifty because it must have been in 18, in 1937 when he left and tm follovring Pesach was '38 and I "Trote him about it, you knoH. I didn't have no time even to talk to him because I 'ras alHays away you ImoVT and once a "eek I Has home, sometimes once in tHO "eeks, I Has home t ..lO, three days and I llever had", 'fhey picked their mm education, "hat they wanted and only one, the son asked me here, come to me one day. He Hent to Georgia Tech and made his mm Hay. And he said, II Daddy, II said, "aaddy" II =r need a subject. Hhat should I take, French or German, ?" ,1.IA?;a;i.~, -..1'0'- <::/<~jC.1/-t, II ~Tnat can you do ,-lith either one of them if yOU'll ~~;Jr,,,:::rs8;y-S, .J "I-mat good ,-rill it be?" 1,0 says, II If you ever go to Germany, you have Auerican Money, and that'll speak for you. Go 'GO France, it'll be the same thing, maybeconverted in fance , I said,but it'll be the same story. He !laid, " \{nat shall, I do to fill it?" I says, "You better take That was the first year, I remeber reading about it, about the R.O. T.C I say you take ROTC if that's acceptable for a subject. "Yeah," hesay~," but Vlhat am I going to do ,'rith that?" Isays, " I'll tell yoy what you do. You take it and if you'll make good, and graduate ,nth a commission, I say if something t1l:r'!lS up to be a '-Tar or something, you be on the top of the ba.nk, and you'll direct somebody hOH to dig a ditch and trench. If you don't do that, you'll be dOem there and somebody else Hill be on the top." And be looked at me and he said, " Daddy, you got something." And he done that and he graduated ,-lith commisssion from ~orgia Today he is retired,ia~retiredColonel. Not only today, he's already retired three, four years ago cause hi.s service started in 1937. He made tuenty, taenty-five years. l1y Father: Did you tell about your, you not talking about Red7 14 He.: No, no, t,iO ye ars yOllllger, the yo=ger one. Not Red. Red din' t go to college. He started, but he had to itark, md he couldn't make both so he made one year I think. But IrlJing, I think, I expect, he is drmd.ng $700/$800 a month pension- a colonel, a m.fe, and a child. I: I guess the service in Latvia was not as desirable as the service here, Has it? ( As I try to get him back on the subject) He:You knOl'T tl1 service or what. I: P:rroy. He: Oh _II, tl12.t's different. The Latvian,that i'laS Russian you knOli'. You're still talking about Russian up until 1918i'ihat happened. It' Russia, not Latvia. It's just a state like the Union heree. Over there it ilaSn't no upion, you knOiT, but it i'Tas eh Russia, eh, WG.8 land ilith alot of sates, what we call. stae capitals, you kn01T. l'1ud Lii'land lIaS the name' of ours, what I lV-as raised, Latvia. It 1-:ras comrerted into Latvi2.. Covna ioTS anoth, r one i-Thich became Lithuania. Revel Has a third one ltlJich is !mrn,m as Estonia. You see, and so on. Uh, they did, The Russian government, they ,picked them up in Lifland, ,end then they send them to Irkutch, Siberia. Hhen they picked them up in Siberia, or in South Russia, or Odessa, they shipped that soldier, tl:ey shipped him to ou.r to'fm. They never let him stay in tt.e same stae, you mow. And that's how they learned the Russian langaage, most of them. Tr,ey were shipped to different parts of tIe country. I~ lm.d the Jeiolish people h d to go into servicB'? He: Oh yeah, same like everybody else. The Jewish people maybe have had more means to to buy themselves out or t~ is one thing the Russian government llas done that tIns countI"'J doesn I t do. The Russian government never took the only son of a mother and fat~, .never. If he \,:ras one, or if be l{aS oldest, and the others lrere lOlnors. No, he didn 1t go. They haven't got it here. I: Yes. He: But of course, alot of them Hould buy of tJ',em because some God 10101'13 from 1rhere. Some of them would save. Dad: Yes. I: Thank you very much. I 'm gonna turn it off. ilthough this ends the recorded intervie" with Mr. Lipshitz, it does not eJ'l.d my contact ,lith him. In the course of quite a fe;l telephone conversations, He have become pretty good friends. One night on the phone, he tolci me a Russian storY' ;,lith a moral. It is " The Rabbit and tbe Farmer" This is hOi'; it is, although not exactly as he told it. ill farmer H8nt out t.o kill a rabbit lirith only one rOUl'1.d A PDF transcript exists for this recording. Please contact an archivist for access. Professor John Burrison founded the Atlanta Folklore Archive Project in 1967 at Georgia State University. He trained undergraduates and graduate students enrolled in his folklore curriculum to conduct oral history interviews. Students interviewed men, women, and children of various demographics in Georgia and across the southeast on crafts, storytelling, music, religion, rural life, and traditions. 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