Gary M. Azar interview with Edna Owen and Clarene Burgess

The John Burrison Georgia Folklore Archive recordings contains unedited versions of all interviews. Some material may contain descriptions of violence, offensive language, or negative stereotypes reflecting the culture or language of a particular period or place. There are instances of racist language and description, particularly in regards to African Americans. These items are presented as part of the historical record. This project is a repository for the stories, accounts, and memories of those who chose to share their experiences for educational purposes. The viewpoints expressed in this project do not necessarily represent the viewpoints of the Atlanta History Center or any of its officers, agents, employees, or volunteers. The Atlanta History Center makes no warranty as to the accuracy or completeness of any information contained in the interviews and expressly disclaims any liability therefore. If you believe you are the copyright holder of any of the content published in this collection and do not want it publicly available, please contact the Kenan Research Center at the Atlanta History Center at 404-814-4040 or reference@atlantahistorycenter.com. In this recording, Edna Owen describes her life and tells family stories. She starts by recounting living on a syrup mill and sweet potato farm. She describes how her family produced syrup and harvested sweet potatoes. 04:42: Azar asks Owen how her grandparents met. Owen then retells the story that they met during the Civil War and discusses their rustic lifestyle in Alabama. Switching to the topic of omens, she says that her Aunt Bessies childhood death was foretold and that she had a dream which predicted the death of her brother Fred from the flu. 15:38: Next, Clarene Burgess tells a couple of supernatural stories. In the first, she and her sister see a bright light emanating from their grandmothers house even though she did not have electricity. In the second, they see trucks and houses floating in the sky that suddenly disappear. She then reminisces about playing in the woods as a child. 21:13: Owen explains how her mother lived without electricity. [21:55-23:00 Audio distortion.] Owen then describes how she and her family preserved food when she was younger. [23:48-24:24 Audio distortion.] 24:25 Next, she explains that she never shopped at a store as a child because they prepared all their food at home. 31:17: At the end of the recording, Owen and Burgess discuss relationships between boys and girls, dating, and child-rearing, as well as how they celebrated Halloween and Christmas. Edna Owen (1905-?) lived in Center, Alabama, and had one daughter, Yvone Owen, who lives in Georgia. Clarene Burgess (1927-?) also lived in Center. Additional biographical information has not been determined. 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(LOC subie;t, headinns onl Keywords Burrison, John Personal names See subject who for additional names 0\)..)-.(.' v\ I \ , \ 3 Corporate names Geographic locations Topics Slov I S. ch"",,\+1\0 4 DECEMBER 3, 1968 F 0 L K LOR ERE SEA R C H FOLKLORE 300 PROFESSOR: JOHN BURRISON Azar, G. M. GEORGIA STATE COLLEGE INTRODUCTION The first trip vlaS miserable. It \vas cold, raining and costly since my car got stuck in a "folk" llUld-hole uhich costs me $23 to get toued out by a more than helpful and generous "folk" mechanic. The trip, I am referring, was to Piedr~nt, Alabama to see a Miss Plumer Parker, the town school teacher. She \Vasn I t too obliging as she refused to mention things which "JQuld imply her age. Consequently, I came back to Atlanta, with a cold, a muddy car, an en~ty pocket and a jar of Plum jam. The person who sent me to see Mrs. Parker was her cousin, Oi'len, who lives exactly three hundred and ten (310) feet from me. I her my tragedy, and she agreed to get her M~ther, Edna, from Center, bam", to come and give me FOLK information. YVOl1.e told Ala- She did come, and proved to be very generous; although, she too hated to admit her age -" very vain people. Edna O'len, approximately sixty-thl'ee (63), l'laS a very short and stocky persou'>lho has, shall we say, faded brown hair. Her face i/las very smooth and shining; vlhile, surprisingly, her hands Here very red and callous. She "laS born, raised and \'Iill probably die in Center, Alabama where she feels is the only place to live. Clarene Burgess, a nextdoor neighbor and \;.7ho came 'Ilith Edna, Has not as old as Edna, but added comically to the discussion. She, like Edna, 'daS short and squatty; but according to her picture, once \'109.8 a very attr[lC'~ tive lady. She looked much older than Edna and much less active. Perhaps, her. "sneaking around" as VILlI be discussed in the tape, \\fas not the most beneficial activity she could have engaged in. Any further description of Edna Hould simply sound trite -,- she, much to my surprose, '(IJ8S everything I had seen in the movies or read about in books. (A picture is \'Jorth a thousand ('lOrds, and I have one ~) I do not know ho\'! nUlch benefit this paper and tape \'Jill be to the reader/listener, but there are a fel" interesting facts mentioned that could be of 1101k" origin; hmvever, mostly, there is ITRlch lt chit-chat 11 o Possibly? had I worded my questions 'more diplomatically, or gone \'lith a list already prepared, I could have gotten more inorrnatioll.o l*len I did use this approach Hith Plumer, she felt as though li-laS really interested in my paper and not in her. So, Hith Edna and Clarene, I just let them talk and they told me what they v/anted to touching on 'i<lhat they felt \'laS most important. It 'das Edna I 8 look of pride and reverence 1:-7hen she spoke of her parents and Gran.dparents, and I was delighted by Clarene I s stories of her Jlsneaking a:coundll 0 If nothing else, I had fun~ Also, I do not think I will ever laugh at a farmer or any other person who lives out in the country again. I learned, while talking and listening, that there are other things more important than the Kitten's Korner, a fraternity party or a Hart-Shaffner and ~mrx Suit; actually, "hen I finished the visit, I felt as though I had and was still missing out on something that v/ould have some sort of meaning to me later on. You cantt \'Jin t em all~ EDNA: \'Jell, when the sirup cane got ripe and ready for sirup making, l11'J Father \'lOuld take the fodder and cut the tops out and he ;;JQuld haul it to a mill, sirup mill~ and \'lOuld. have horses and "X'lOuld have a press. These horses "(\1Quld go around and press the juice out and it \';lould go into the barrell and they ",auld get about thirty (30) 01' forty UfO) gallons. Then they \,ould cook it for six (6) hours and let it die d01;'Jn till the skirrnnins come up and they \'lould take the skinrrnings off, and then start it to boiling big again and boil until. J.t got this red laokin foam on it Hnd then cut the heat down and take this foam off. The sirup would be done. It \.,as bright red \lhen it got done. Then they would pull the fire out from the boiler and let it cool dmln and put it in buckets .. and I think about forty (40) gallons of juice ",auld make thirty (30) gallons of sirup. They would bucket it up for the \'linter. GARY: You said something about the young people. EDNA: It "Iould, at leas,t, take t,'lO (2) men to make the sirup. One (1) couId not make it by h ,rnself. The family "iOuld take the supper about 6: 00 and usually the ones from ten (10) on to sixteen (16), seventeen (17) and eighteen (18) and they Hould bring the supper and plan to stay 'lith their fathers till about 12:00 or 1:00 till the sirup got done and come back \lith their fathers. They would bring supper enough for tHO (2) meals. They \'lould look forl:lard to staying out Icause viOuld usually be till about 3 '00 or 4:00 in the morning and natuI-ally, young people Hould like to stay out like that and they \'lOuld play games and enjoyed it. That t "-Jas a sirup making party. GARY: What did you tell me about the Potatoes? EDNA:vlell, in the spring they ''iould take the Potaters oui: of the fields 'cause the frost \Vould ruin the Potaters and we \Vould go to the field and pull the vines off the Potaters and \V'e Hould pull these vines off the Potate:cs and our fathers \;\lould pIo;;'l them up and put them in the Potaters houses, and that vlaS "'hat people...... They didn I t buy the Potaters, they raised them. From twenty (20) to tlIenty-five (25) bushels Hould be about the least anybody Hould have. Our father would plOH them up and the chilcb:en \'!Ould pick them up. GARY: 1'n1at . flould you tell me about your Grandmother \'Ihen she got lnErried7 EDNA: Hy Grandfather came back from the .... Now this IIould be the Civil Har Id' nt it the one that I th:lnk that would be the Civil \Var, the one bet\;een the North and the South. INhen he came back home, his ~!other lJaS going to the church "here my Grandmother and her Hother and family '-I8.S a going to church. They met at the church. He liked my Grand~ mother and in I:\{O or three I'leeks he asked my Grandmother if he could carry her horne. So he did and they seen one anot.her and so they started datin regular. GARY: T .ey could not go out by themselves, could they? EDNA: No, they had to stay in the house \'lith their parents and if they Vlent out any(Jhere, her br'ther or sister had to go';'!ith them. They Here never allov/ed to go just a young girl and a boy by theirselves, they had to have somebody else 'dhen, they l:'lent some\1here. Then, one clay he told her that he thought she \'las real p:ceCcy and that he loved her very much. She said, Oh, your just joking. So th ,y talked on and she said that she liked him too; so tly y got married in about six (6) months after he came back from the 'dar and 80 they decided they \'lanted a home of their O\'Jll livin by t.heirDelves and there \Vas a lot of land there that nobody'd ever had and \leU, they could have all the land that they "mnted. So they made a deed and had it recorded in Center, Alabama. He uanted a deed for eighty (80) acres. GARY: That I 8 all he Hanted? EDNA: That I s all he wanted and he got the deed and made a log house and he raised his family in that hOllse and he died in the house he built. GARY: Did he make any of the f<.!'rniture? EDNA: He made practically all the furniture. GARY: HOH did he n"~ke the furniture stick it together: \'lith cement? EDNA: No, it t'was cherry, He ITk~de his buffet out of cherry. He made his safe .. - they had safes then \'lhere they have cabinets no\'!. He Ilk'1.de his safe Hnd it 'oas all solid cherry. lIe cut the trees that "Ii-Jere on this gt'ound. They didn't buy anything except one bedroom suite and their beel limB fea ther '" ~ the fines t bed \\fas eve~c made 0 f feather s they got from the geese and turkeys and het' mother f,ive her t'/hen they got lllfJ..rried, this feather bed, and the mattress, instead of sp:cings) they had grass. There \1aS some kind of silver grass that grmYed. Instead of springs they had this grass. It 'dould go under feather beds. This bed) she lay OD, she had this bed ao long as she lived. She lived to be eighty-nine (89) years old. GARY: How did they make this furniture stay together'l EDNA: They had these pegs, I reckon; and instead of a nail they have these pegs and it IVOU Id stay together. GARY: Is that good furniture? EDNA: Hell, if it t ',<laS good ",henever my Grandmother died. GARY: Nhat "\'lere you saying about a vision? EDNA: -(,'Jell) my Mother' s youngest sister; my l'1other Has grmvu at th.e time) and her youngest sister got cel1avated; and in fact, at that time they gave calomel, they don't give that today. GARY: What was that? EDNA: Calomel? It's something the doctors gives people back then; and so this doctor had give Aunt Bessie this calomel and oranges. If you ate an orange while that t'Has in you body, it Houlcl cellavate you. And so she was about three (3) years old and she went an got an orange and they did not know anything about it --- and it cel1avated her. GAllY: What does that do to you? EDNA: \vell, it poisons your mouth on the inside and she got real sick one night. So my Grandma ther had my two (2) uncles get up out of the bed --- they didn't have no telephone -- and they '-lent on their horses to the doctor and told him that she ClaS real sick and they "anted him to come. Hell, he would be right over. But they come back and they Clent over a hill, and it \\las something kinc1a like Roosevelt) only it \'la.S a bigger hill, and \'lhen they got to the top of that hill, they said that they was somethin appeared. Like huge birds and so they felt the air, you kno\-!) just like \'lings -{'las a flapping. And said that they had got speechless, they could not speak. GARY: They sm, big birds? EDNA: They felt, you know, just like a bird --- they didn't see anything. But it was just like something what Has up with the \vind ju, t like a huge uing and they \'lere speechless. And "hen they got to the foot of the hill, it left them and Uncle John said to Uncle Jim, "\1ell, I just believe that Bessie died and that t s a ~'lal'ning:l. And when they got home, she had died. GARY: The little girl had? EDNA: The little girl had died. GMlY: 1" that true? I Vias about sil<teen (16) years old and I had a little half brother. He \'las five (5) months old. Our living room \Vas a :eoom the si2,e of this. (Indicated with her hands, the size of the room ,;ve Here in.) And my bed" room, the room I slept: in Nas a joinin the livin room and one cJ..me my cousin 'viaS a staying uith us and \lIe \>l8nt to bed eax'ly and ':18 "was laying the1'e Hide 8.Hake and it just got dark. It looked just like my Father came in and leaned over the bed and started crying. GARY: Over your bed? EDNA: Over my bed. And then my Stepmother, she come in 8-nd she bent over and did not say a Hord and then X'lent back, bu-t we hadn I t 1;lent to sleep ~ You know, we didn't think. I don't think 'we had. And so, the next morning, He asked them uhat they came in there fOI', \'lhat did they "lJant 8-nd \'Ihy didn't they tell us wh8-t they wanted. They said they didn't come in there and He said <"~ Hhy, yes, "!:'ife seen you, I knm'l you did come in there. And a Heek from then, everybody got the flu, except me. I didn't have it, but the rest of the f8-mily did. So my Father came to the mill Ydhere 1;1e 1:'1as a \mrking and told us that ou:e little brother ...... t.he doctor said \'118 dying. So liJ6 got off Hork and '\'!ent home and so He moved the bed out of the bedl~oom " it '(vas the same bed V18 was a sleepin on .. you know, \'lhen ;Je seen our Father and St:epmother. GARY: They said that they did not come in there, didn't they? EDNA: Yes, they said they didn't come in there. GARY: But you,f re sure they did? EDNA: I'm surc. H' it l;'lftS a vision 'cause i.t \'las just like them. So) ue. put the bed by the fireplace, the r00111'dHs bigger than this. (Again, an indication.) I had taken the baby when I went in 8-nd I seen it \'Jas a dyin und gettin to where it couldn rt breathe and I didn I t uant it to die in my lap and I set it dmm. One of my nei.ghbors and me fixed a piUmv 8-nd sit i.t up. And I put it "ver the bed and before it died, I wanted my Father and Steprrother to come in and see it and so I was the one that Bent and told them to come in and see Fred that he '~va8 real sick and my Father came in and bent dm'ln over the baby, just like he did me. GAilY: Just like the visionf / EDNA: Just like the vi.sion -_ .. and tears came in his eyeo. He did not speak, und he \Ve11t bac1-c. Then NfJ,ry, my Stepmother, she came in and started crying an.d I>7cnt 'back and did not speak. After my little brother lJas buried, '>1hile '\le uas talking about it. So lvt-lt'y Joe, my cousin the one 1;'lHS sleepin \'lith me. We said it looked just a8 real that night that \'.Je thought they had come as it did \ilheneVel~ we \'lent and told them to come and see Fred that he \\fas real sick. So, my Father, then believed it \"ms a vision because there 'i'lasn 1 t no difference in the \'lay we seen t.hem. And I don 't believe I ever Hent to sleep. GARY: This was superstition? EDNA: Yes, th8-t \'lould be like superotiU_on, but that 'Has a fact. ,Ie actually seen that. GARY: Any other things like that happen? EDNA: No, not anything else that \'las like that; and that \'las a fact. GARY: Hhy did they say they didn't come in there then? EDNA: Hell, they didn 't. GARY: So, they didn't come in there? EDNA: They didn't. But "lith my Farther -- he felt as I felt that it was 8. vision that vIe had, but He did not know the meaning of the vision "Hhen it happened. But since I been g:cm'Jl1 and read the Bible. 'rhe Bible says "(ve C11 have visions and dreams and that's not no tale, that ~ s a fact. CLARENE COMES IN. A FRIEND OF EDNA'S CLARENE: Well, this happened to me one time, I know you won't believe it; but it's true, sure enough. You know, back a Square Dance then, we didn't have no lightbulbs, anyways, we that night and dance and we left kindly early. was going to Then GARY: How long ago was this? CLARENE: About thirty (30) thirty-five (35) .................... GARY: O.K., you don't have to tell me if you don't want to. CLARENE: Oh, about thirty-five (35) years ago, I reckon. We all went back to this supper and square dance and everything, and went home about 11:00. We always went home early and we had a lamp -- kerosene. We started down this hill by Grandmama's house and we went down that hill and the house was lit up with electric lights. Completely, lit up. And we didn't have nothin but little oil lamps. GARY: Why was it lit up ith electric lights? CLARENE: Why--I don't know that's what I'm a talking about. That's what was so mysterious, and we topped on top of the hill many a day and my sister and I --- when we saw that house all lit up and there was nobody coming in a car or no thin with lights to flash against the windows There it was lit like, you know, houses lit up with electric lights. We got to the foot of the hill and every light went out. And t'was a light shining .on the porch, just like a ball of fire or somethin. The closer we got, it just went on off into the woods. Now that's true. GARY: Ah, come on now. CLARENE: Yes sir and I don't know what it was, there wasn't a car coming down the road or anythin GARY: Where did the little ball bounce off to? CLARENE: Just bounced on off into the woods, just like a little ball of fire. EDNA: Did anything strange happen? CLARENE: No, not a thing and we couldn't understand it. We looked around everwhere for a car or somethin shining on the house. Every light in the house looked like electric lights and all we had was little oil lamps. GARY: Maybe, it was the moon or something? CLARENE: No, it couldn't be the moon, not a house lit up like our house was lit up then. Couldn't abeen a moon. GARY: It wasn't a fire? CLARENE: No fire or nothin just like an electric light or something. GARY: Ya'll didn't have any electric lights? CLARENE: No, we had a lamp. Now that's a superstition, we never did solve it. Somebody would never believe it; nobody never has. Only me and my sister believed it. She saw that. And then there was another thing we saw. This sounds crazy, but it was true, Gary. We was just little girls, just me and her. We's livin in Rutledge One morning, early, you know how the sky will be red when the sun is first coming up and we sit by the window and up in the sky was dump trucks and houses and you could see the dust behind the dump trucks and we watched that for about an hour and nobody has believed us. But, Grace (Her Sister) remembers, and I do to. But, we really saw that, but sometimes I imagine I seen it by myself,but Grace, she remembers seeing it to. We sit at the window. I have looked since then for that, and have never seen them trucks through the red in the sky and them houses in the sky. GARY: Maybe it was a bird or something? EDNA: Maybe it was Suttods truck (Man lives down the road) CLARENE: No, it was up in the red part of the sky and I asked (Meanwhile, during the conversation, everybody was drinking applecider, possibly spiked.) (Asked Grace) a long time ago do you remember seein that She says, yes, I remember. Was we seeing things? She says, no, how could we both be seein things. We really saw that and nobody ever believed it. GARY: Trucks. CLARENE: Trucks and little houses in that red in the sky. it, but you could see just as plain as if it was I don't know what it was. Nobody ever did believe going along the street. GARY: What did you do that we don't do now? CLARENE: Well, I played in the woods and climbed trees and built tree houses. I really played way down in the woods when I was a little girl. Built houses out of leaves and things and got -- cut down trees and built houses for playhouse. GARY: Did you ever make your toys? CLARENE: No, didn't have we was little. rocks and build when I was four any much. We used to go out and build tree houses when We go out and find bushes of brick grass and sticks and us a playhouse and play house. We didn't have dolls, not (4) and five (5) years old. GARY: Do you know any old riddles or old ghost stories? CLARENE: The only ghost stories I know are just the two (2) I told you. GARY: Did you ever make anything, Edna, for the house? EDNA: Brooms. 'Cause we never had a bought broom till my Mother was grown. They made their brooms. GARY: How did they make them? EDNA: Broom sage. CLARENE: Mrs. Burgess still uses one now. EDNA: And she never had a bought broom, never had electric lights or an iron. The iron she had you put it on the fireplace and it was iron, too. And they was five (5) and seven (7) pounds, and you heat them with this red coals and then did you ironing. And they had kerosene lamps. Didn't have runnin water, didn't never have a Frigidaire. GARY: How did you keep the food from spoiling without a Frigidaire? EDNA: We never had an icebox; we keep this here milk in this here well water. It was near a spring and it was just like ice water. They would milk the cows in the morning, and carry the milk down to this spring and this here water was just like ice water. You could carry meat or any thin like that. GARY: You would put meat in the water? CLARENE: Why, yes, you would set it down in a bucket and put a lid on it; it wouldn't spoil, and in twenty-four (24) hours still be that cold. (The tape messes up at this point) GARY: With all these different methods of raising and preserving food, did you people ever go to town for anything. EDNA: Instead of going to a store, you had your tomatoes; you had everthing that you buy at the store. You done that yourself in the summertime. We didn't go to the store in my Mother's lifetime. Well, now, right before she died, we quit raising wheat; but I remember when my Father raised the wheat and had the wheat made into flour. And we never bought meal in my Mother's lifetime nor grease. You carried your corn to the Grice mill which was just two (2) miles from where we lived, and my Uncle owned this Grice mill, and I went a many a time and carried this corn to have it ground. And another thing that happened in my . (Edna got nervous. Said she was talking and saying too much. So, I pretended I was working on the recorder but really I had it going.) GARY: You mentioned, earlier, something about a shucking party. What is a Shucking Party? EDNA: They would all try to get started at the same time. They would shuck real fast because the first one that got a red ear of corn, they got a prize. A ham or a turkey or something like that. Then they would quit shucking corn and go into the houses and have something to eat and drink. They would come back and rest awhile. They would come back to the corn crib, that's what they called it. That's where they kept the corn and they would start shucking again and it would always be a quart or a half gallon of whiskey somewhere in that pile of corn, and whoever found the whiskey could have it. Of course, they would give all of 'em what they wanted to drink then, but they got to keep the rest of it. They would race in shucking corn to see who'd get the whiskey then. GARY: Well, did just certain families have the corn or what? EDNA: Well, the community would all be farmers. They all would raise corn and like one (1) week, they would go to one house and next week, they go to the next house. GARY: Each time they went to a house, they would shuck the corn? EDNA: They would shuck the corn that was the kind of party my Mother and Father --- they went to when they were young. GARY: That was called a Corn Shucking Party? EDNA: A Corn Shucking Party. GARY: How long would this take to shuck all this corn? EDNA: Well, I imagine they would shuck till about 11:00 or 11:30; and if they didn't get it done, they would quit; but they had enough, as much as the people would want for a long time. Then the next week, they have it somewhere else. And then, they had square dances back when my Mother and Father were young. They would have a dance every two (2) weeks. GARY: Every two (2) weeks? EDNA: Every two weeks and it would be in the homes. The rooms was larger than this here.(Indicating the size of the room as she pointed around the room.) 'Cause they built their houses back then had plenty of lumber and didn't cost anything and there was always a saw mill somewhere where they could saw the lumber. It didn't cost to build houses. People can't afford to build houses today like they could back then. But back then, Gary, as far back as I can remembe~ I heard people talk about wall to wall carpets. Well, you know, that there is old. GARY: Carpet? EDNA: Carpet is old, as far back as I can remember, I worked on carpet and such thing. GARY: Oh, really. EDNA: I just hated a',rug. (Profound1)!) In our house, we had an old piano that was twice as big as this one here. And we had a rug. Ours was a big or average room. I'd clean that up and dust it and I'd raise up the corner 'cause you couldn't lift that piano,'cause the way they built them then; they was so heavy till you could not lift them. I'd lift up the corner and there was dirt. I said I would never in my life have a rug. I just hated that rug. It was allover the room. I learned to hate rugs whenever I was a child. They got vacuum cleaners, now; and back then, you had to lift all the stuff off and furniture was so much heavier then as it is now; the furniture right now as to what it was then. And you had to carry them out on the clothes-line and sweep them. GARY: The rugs? EDNA: But, I just hated that o'ld rug; I just hated it beyond the sun. GARY: Do you think food, then, was better than it is now? EDNA: Food, then, was much better than it is today. GARY: Why? EDNA: 'Cause they knew more how to cure the meat and it wasn't put in these places and lose the tastes. The meat don't have the taste that, today, that it did then. Now, their side meat that they cured back then is better than any ham you can buy today. YVONE: They wasn't interested in making money off it. EDNA: They don't fix the meat now, and they meat you buy today is full of water. They got "kills" that pump that water didn't put water in it then. The You may not know it, but it is. in. If you didn't raise your food back then, you didn't have anything. I was born in '27 during the Depression. but if you didn't raise, you didn't have down, and my Father owned his house. He he built it. I don't know how long that lasted, anythin to eat. Manufacturing clOSed built it hisself, and bid for it as GARY: This was in Alabama? EDNA: No, that was in Georgia and he bought two (2) extra loads and then he had land he farmed on, and he knew how to do it. Had two (2) cows and all the milk and butter we wanted; had all the meat we wanted. GARY: Did you ever churn butter? EDNA: I have churned many a time. Had a churn about this high with a lid and a little hole in it and it was something sorta like a broom stick, the churn you know. You pull it up and down and after a while there'd be a big 0'1 hunk and it was butter. It was better that what you can get today. GARY: What were you telling me? What you did on Halloween; remember, we talked about that last night? EDNA: We would go around and the party would last till about 1:00 and we'd go to houses to houses. All the young people would meet at One house and then they would go around to others together and it was sorta like Trick or Treat today, but t'was different. GARY: What did they give you? EDNA: Well, they would give us fruit cake. GARY: Fruit cake? EDNA: Fruit cake; and they would cook extra for that night. People don't do that today. Young people back then, you see, they don't have drive-ins and things back then, and they would go to house to house and they would sit for about an hour in each house and eat and drink all they wanted and then go somewhere else; and they would have a lot of fun going from one house to another. CLARENE: Having Pound and Prom Parties. GARY: Pound and Prom Parties? EDNA: You bring a pound of candy or a pound do something like "Spin the Bottle". walk up and down the road a' promin. of cake. Everybody would. Then we'd Only the older boys and girls would GARY: What is proming? EDNA: Well, just the boys and girls go out up and down the road. Then come back and they have some kind of bottle and spin the bottle. They have a bottle in the middle of the floor, and where the bottle neck turned, they would be the girl he walked up and down the road with. GARY: Instead of kissing, ya'll walked. EDNA: Yes, did never no kissin. GARY: Why? EDNA: Just didn't, 1 guess. Most of 'em slipped it, but there wasn't no kiss in goin on---parents didn't allow it. GARY: 1 want to ask you this. Tell me, honestly now, this is going to be kind of personal. All the time, you know, talking about young people, you said they didn't kis~ that they never got out by themselves, you know; while they were dating. Were the kids then, now be truthful, were they better then than they are now. 1 mean, would any of the girls ever get you know, have to get married? You know, pregnant? EDNA: No, not that 1 never knowed of. CLARENE: I never knowed of one havin to get married, but I know that a lot of 'em did a lot a things that their parents didn't know about. I did, myself. I couldn't date, so I had to slip and date. I didn't do anything wrong. EDNA: Well, Gary, back then, they had the family room. When my Grandmother was young---Now this changed from my Grandmother to my Mother . they had a huge sittin room and the daughter or the son and boyfriend or girlfriend, stayed in the same room with the Mother and Father. Now, from Grandma to my Mother, they built this new house. I just barely can remember, reckon I was about four (4) years old, they didn't have no 1ivin room. Had a family room and that's all they had and they all stayed in the same room. GARY: You never sneaked around and had any dates? EDNA: Well, my Father there were certain people around that he didn't let us date; but I always could date somebody that my Father liked. GARY: Where did you used to go? EDNA: Well, we'd go to the show or we'd go to a ball game or something like that. GARY: Where did you used to sneak around? CLARENE: Well, Ha, Ha I used to just go to the ball game. Well, I always went to the ball game, I used to sneak around, but, well, I used to go to the show. After I got about thirteen (13) years old, Mama would not let me go no where or nothin. So I had to sneak around and tell her I's going to a girlfriend's house. And off I would go, sneakin around with my old first husband. EDNA: Well, my parents were'nt that strict with us, but he didn't care. CLARENE: Grace, my sister, eloped at sixteen (16), but when she was dating at fifteen (15) whenever they would come into the house, Mama would make me sit up in the living room with them. I'd get so sleepy and tired. Grace is three(3) years older than I am. GARY: What did they do? CLARENE: Just sit and look at each other. My Grandmother used to go to square dances on their dates, but her brother would have to go with them. GARY: Well, how did they ever know if they wanted to marry somebody if they never got a chance to be alone with them. EDNA: Well, they was alone like when you come out of church, you right with your family. You know, you'd be out with yourself. be on the porch and they didn't stay right with them, but they to where they couldn't see them. You know, things like that. didn't stay And they'd didn't get CLARENE: When Mama was a datin, they more or less picked her husband out for her. EDNA: It wasn't like that in my family at all. CLARENE: Well, it was in mine. EDNA: Everybody picked out who they wanted in my family. Now, there was a creek when it would rain they had a dance on one side of the creek and they live on the other side and so they all had horses. My Grandmother, her sister and brother went to this dance. Water wasn't up too much when they left and went over, but when the dance was over at 12:00, it was 3:00 or 4:00 in the morning before they could make the horses cross there then the water went down. GARY: So what did they do all this time? EDNA: Well, they just had to stay over there on their horses till the water went down. GARY: By themselves. EDNA: By themselves. GARY: Unchaperoned. EDNA: No, my brother was with them. But they really enjoyed themselves, and had more fun than people do today. GARY: You really believe that, don't you? EDNA: I know they did. CLARENE: They didn't have half as much to worry about. GARY: Yes, but they didn't have half as much to enjoy either. EDNA: They had music back then and the people in the neighborhood would come to your house and they would play and sing. Back at schools, then, people was talented more so than people is today. The whole family---they would play different kinds of music and sing; they was a lot happened then. Why, we don't no more visit one another here than nothing in the world. Back then, I'd get up, run over yonder, stayed till midnight and then next week, they would come over here and stay till midnight, and wasn't no such thing then _. way people live today. CLARENE: Always having each other to eat with them and stay with them. EDNA: When you cook the meal, you didn't know who you was a cooking it for. CLARENE: The boyfriend would always eat with the girls and they the girls would go to the houses and eat. Well, I think I had a lot happier and carefree childhood than my kids have now. EDNA: Well, I know I did than mine; and in a way, they had more and knowing ways they have had less 'cause they have not had the freedom and the faith. We lived on a eighty (80) acre farm and everybody had this huge land. I don't know. You was more private yourself, more happy. GARY: Yes, but you never could be alone. EDNA: Well, you don't care about being alone. Why people wouldn't be alone. You could go in the kitchen and your Mother and Father wouldn't be in there, and you could talk about anything you wanted to and didn't nobody know it. That's the way they did back then. GARY: Yes, but they were too strict. EDNA: No, they wasn't. GARY: Shoot: Beat you with a stick. EDNA: No, the didn't. CLARENE: No, they wouldn't. No sir. GARY: What is all this I see in the movies about them beating you with a stick? EDNA: Well, that was people, years and years ago, Gary, just like these 0'1 (She started to say Beatles) these hippies? They was a few people that wasn't nothin and probably half idiots. They didn't work and made their children do this----Maybe one (1) family out of a hundred would do that and that's where you get this from. (Then she went on a tange talking about hippies.) Kids having crazy ideas, and hearing about the hippies and all that today. GARY: Well, didn't people do that a long time ago. EDNA: No, not at all. CLARENE: ~t But and you talk about getting beat with a stick. if we needed a hickory switch, we went and tattled our legs. They really did. No, that never happened. got one off a Peachtree EDNA: Yes, they made us mind. One thing that happened in my family different; whenever my Mother told me to do something, I didn't sit there, I got up and went and did it. Well, now, whenever the mothers tells 'em to do something, they say Well, I'm gona do it. CLARENE: You have to beg them to do it now. EDNA: That's just the way we was raised. We felt like it should be done right then and if we didn't, they made us do it. They had rules that we went by, but they wasn't hard on us. At the school, I went through the 12th grade and it had these folding doors. Like they had the 1st through the 5th, then the 6th through the well, on. And on Friday, they would have programs where they trained the children. Fold these here doors up and it would all be one (1) room. The parents would always come to the school. Wasn't like it is today. They would be two (2) or three (3) of the parents that would be there every Friday. They did'nt support schools then like they do today. Whenever they needed a room built on to the school, why, they went to the people in the neighborhood and built it. If they wanted a chimney built, they built it. You didn't pay school taxes, there wasn't no such thing as that. CLARENE: You could walk up to somebody and hand them an apple or an orange and say "Merry Christmas", and that would be just like giving them a whole lot of presents today. Why, more. That was more, I think. EDNA: Well, now seems like the family is divided, but like then, the families used to be all one. GARY: How did you decorate your Christmas tree? EDNA: Each year they'd bring a huge tree in. It was a paper; t'was chained together, Had a little 0'1 rope of silver. My Father and Uncle ran a store. red and green. Pasted together. GARY: Did you make any decorations? EDNA: ~s we made them all. We'd put popcorn on it, then candy and just little things like that. But our decorations was a paper; it was a chain and t'was red and green and silver. GARy: Did you ever have any eggnogg? EDNA: Yes, they always had eggnogg on Christmas. CLARENE: Yes sir, that's a must. EDNA: If Christmas ever was, you had your eggnogg. GARY: How did you make your eggnogg? EDNA: Well, you take about a pint of whiskey. They would always have good whiskey. GARy: Would you buy it from the store? EDNA: Well, they did if they didn't everybody that wanted some. and a certain amount of sweet it's real good. have it. We had it; they would make enough for You'd put a pint of whiskey, three (3) eggs milk and then they would put Nutmeg and CLARENE: That was milk shakes to us, back.then, but a little bit strong. EDNA: Yes, they always had that on Christmas Eve. GARY: What else did you have? Did you ever crack hickory nuts or chestnuts? EDNA: Oh, yes, black walnuts. GARy: Black walnuts? CLARENE: You know what black walnuts are? GARY: No. CLARENE: There the best things you've ever eaten. EDNA: We'd make this sirup candy with these walnuts in it and Sealey Bark. GARY: What is Sealey Bark? EDNA: I don't know where there is now, but when I was a child, it was as big as a pecan. It's something sorta like a pecan. Thinner shelled than a pecan, but a better tasting nut. We used to have bushels of them; we used to have a tree in our yard. The Sealey nuts were that big.(Indicated the size of a soft ball.) Chestnuts allover the forrest; you could get all you wanted. I don't know why, but the Chestnut Trees are died out in this country. CLARENE: Black walnuts are goin too. GARY: Did you play any kind of games on Christmas? EDNA: No, because we'd always go to the church. They would have a program. Don't care what day of the week it was. GARY: How long did you stay? EDNA: Three (3) or four (4) hours. They did have these huge trees at church and then they'd have a program. I know, I was in one one time. And my Mother made me a skirt, you know, t'was a sailor suit. I was about eight (8) or nine (9) years old. Big 0'1 red ribbons. You ,know how they was, and I don't just know how or what all was in that play but anyway Me and two (2) boys was in this one and we'd go round holdin hands and then we'd drop our hands I forgot about how it went. We'd skip around to the music. GARY: That's what you did? EDNA: That's what we did. A PDF transcript exists for this recording. Please contact an archivist for access. Professor John Burrison founded the Atlanta Folklore Archive Project in 1967 at Georgia State University. He trained undergraduates and graduate students enrolled in his folklore curriculum to conduct oral history interviews. Students interviewed men, women, and children of various demographics in Georgia and across the southeast on crafts, storytelling, music, religion, rural life, and traditions. As archivists, we acknowledge our role as stewards of information, which places us inaposition to choose how individuals and organizations are represented and described in our archives. We are not neutral, andbias isreflected in our descriptions, whichmay not convey the racist or offensive aspects of collection materialsaccurately.Archivists make mistakes and might use poor judgment.We often re-use language used by the former owners and creators, which provides context but also includes bias and prejudices of the time it was created.Additionally,our work to use reparative languagewhereLibrary of Congress subject termsareinaccurate and obsolete isongoing. Kenan Research Center welcomes feedback and questions regarding our archival descriptions. If you encounter harmful, offensive, or insensitive terminology or description please let us know by emailingreference@atlantahistorycenter.com. Your comments are essential to our work to create inclusive and thoughtful description.