Joel Gross interview with Benjamin “Bennie” Caudell (part one)

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This is part one of a two part recording that begins with Bennie Caudell singing Home Sweet Home. Caudell then tells stories about his friends, specifically one about a friend who went on a three week vacation and another about scaring two friends at a logging camp. Caudell also reminisces about riding a hog through his hometown, his experiences logging and the difficulty of hitching horses to carry logs up and down a steep mountain, and his old horse. The interview concludes with Caudell recalling a practical joke he played on his teacher. The transcript also includes a photo of Caudell at his home in Cleveland, Georgia, and a pamphlet about White County.
Benjamin Bennie Caudell (1917-?) was born in Robertstown, Georgia. He married Mervin Inez Ledden Caudell (1921-2007), and they had four children: James Bennett Caudell (1947-2019), Brenda Louisde Caudell Bamlett (1949-2019), Zulene Caudell Cathey, and Esther Mae Caudell Conley. Additional biographical information has not been determined.
Collection P~ject Spring I968 _-Joel Gross TAPE I INTRODUCTION Bennie; Caudell \'18S born May 9~ 1917, in Robertstmvn, Gcorgiao He was one of 15 chiLdren o His fathce tv8S a farmer .. Bennie has done almost every kind of job you think possible for a folk to have done.. He has been a carpenter, a logger, ridclen in a rodeo, a guard for a chain gang, and a railroad tvorker just to name a few.. He is rencHvned up in Cleveland for his story telling abilityo Presently he is the caretaker at Camp Barney Medintz, ,1 camp run by the Atlanta Jewish Community Center iust north of Cleveland" I have known him in that capacity for the past: five ye.ars .. At camp Bennie is renowned for his supe.r=human strength .. For e.xample~ as a birthday present to me on my eighteenth birthday he bent a half dollar using only 3 fingers~ The kids and staff of calnp regard him as alnlost a g=d. He now lives on the grounds of the camp year round. My feeling towards him 9 his wife and four children is that of a second family to me. For that reason plus the fact that he is a very busy man it IvdS veey clif~ fieult for me to get tapes of him~ After he finishes working from sunup to sundown at camp, he often gOE-~S out to cloct:or animals. He cloes th.is illegally but the people up there donlt trust the regular vet so tlley always call Bennie. Also, hLs father is dying so he often spends the whole night witll hi!no I did a poor job with ttlC first tape, making it seem too rehearsed~ however Bennie1s part I felt was excellent. The second tape \vas made by Michael FinoekilLo~ \vho is helping Bennie at camp. Mike had hccu:-d the i cst: tape so I 1:0 1cI him I wanted the second tape to be like the first one e Mike misundet"stood me so he got some of the exact samf3 stories. At the end of the recot~cling session with Mike there was some empty space on the tape~ By himself in his OVl1fl tine~ Bennie filled in the rest of it, starting after Ills boxing story" Un[ortllnatly, I believe he (~rased the (~nd of his boxing story when he was recording the next story" Also at the (;nd of his cowboy song the tape t~an ou+ so \ve missed get.Ling the c~nplete song" Because of the various problems I encountered in collecting, I feel that I have not nearly covered this man" I have not given him the -justice of a good collection" Then~ \vdS so much I could have collected and so little time I hacl to collect it in" In the time that lIve known hilll I must have listened to at least 200 hours of stories in addition to \vatching him dance and perform feaLs of strength" He is superb at everything--I just. can not say enougll about himo When I \vHS talking to Mrs" Caudell, I found out an interesting side .. light to folk society" There is a class structure which is built into the society" When Bennie was working at a CC camp in South Georgia, he met Mrs" Caude 11" She was not supposed to go out" \\li th ay of thos(,; boys, but she ~\lent against her pat~ents \vi8he1; and married him" For that reason her father and Bennie do not get along at all togethere Bennie will not accept any morley from tlim nor do they ever talk to each other" Also, Mrs" CSlldell said that she feels that she has never been accepted into the society in Cleveland" She told me that the generati6n of Iler childrell will not have that problelu because of increasing education, and more communica- tion" Because of Benniels father bei.ng a farnler in Robertstown, Bennie grew up on a farln and received little formal education" He has often told me that that's the one thing hb can give his children that he didn't gete He has one son and three daughters and t~vo Itgranclbabies"" Enclosed in this report is a folder containing a little background information of White County~ On the map I have indicated the location of Camp Barney Medint:z" This is Benny Caudell from Cleveland, Georgia li This song I made when I was'raisin chullin. Home sweet ole home There's no place like home. Home sweet ole home There's no place like home. When you come in tired from a hard days work Six, seven chullin and a face black as dirt Part of my supper on the bosom of my shirt There's no place like home Home, Home, .~, Home sweet home There's no place like home. When the baby cry out in the middle of the night e:.r;r;;.t.oiJ! Have to hunt the c~ts a~l without any light You step right up in -'lYhe upturned deck ,s'ri\\(L. Come slidin down the~steps flat on your back, Your wife hollers out "Gh hurry up Jack" There's no place like home. Home, Home, Home sweet home There's no place like home. I have a little wife She's the joy of my life There's no place like home Home, Home, Home Sweet Home There's no place like home. page - f- s~ , will you tell us a story of ole' John's vacation? One time Ole John, he wuz working with a construction company fir about twenty year and neVer had a vacation - so he gave him a vacation, paid his way - I gave him three week5vacation - so his vacation his "}~';:l firstPtrip wuz New York and they ased him, said when he come back off his vacation,"where didcha go john?" He sed went to New Work (he couldn't talk plain) whatcha do in New York? said Oh')~ sed) I went up an Empire State Buildin, said my bruther went wid me but he didn't go uhp in de Empire State Buildin - him cwipple you know - oh where didcha go from there - he said well, we went to Itily, whatcha do in Itily - went up in the leaning tower said my bruther didn go said hilll cwipple you know, where didcha go from there John, well we~down ~.In Wome - Whatcha go to Rome for, went down to Wome to see the Pope - well didcha see him - yeah we wen down to see the Pope and we wen in, my bwother wen wid me and the Pope he took my bwother~ old cruchers,~ took one of his cruchers, said a prayer, kissed it and laid it up on the mantlepiece - what'd he do then John - he reached back end got the other cruch, prayed over it the mantlepiece also - well what did yer bwother do - well him him damn ass, him cwipple you know. and laid rJ fell im it up on L: Now will you tell us about the story how you scared Smith Crumly and ole' Robinson at the loggin' camp? It was rainin' one night and I went back up totp . Buck and Smith were " stayin up there by themselfs I go back up there, slipped into camp, and J.Af'. they wuz sleepin' on these canvas cots) I crawled under Buck Iscot. Buck ~cr couldn't hear good, couldn't talk plain either. I wentt'under his bed page - !f- and I'd raise him up and let him dOWD, raise him and let him down, then I said ho, ho, ho, bah, bah, bah. I rolled nut from under Buok's bed under Smith's. Smith he got up) Buck and they looked under Buck's bed - never did look under Smith's. So they went on back to bed. Smith said "Go on back to bed,Buck - there's nuthin under there. You'se them one of them ole nighl:;~~C;;;",";<i1So they went on back to bed just having v:><,c:r 1<4~ and.wa4t to sleep and I rolled back under Buck's bed, raised him up again and let him down ~"Q ~~8. s;y about three or four times. He-lOos-~~hoJlerin, ho, ho, ho, bah, bah, bah. Ole Smith, he come out of there. " They look under Buck's bed again, they couldn't find a thing. Smith he said - aw go on back II to bed Buck, you're just havin' an ole nighthoss. They went on back to ~f bed and I wuz waitin till they got to sleep, ..s'l:owiu-around and I raised ole " Smith up till he fgll 00 the floor. When he hit the floor he said - " Woooooh!" That, that scared ole Buck and they .JOke up they just gr",bbed each other and I looked up ct Bah, Bah, Bah; and ole II from the floor and somebody, Buck was hollerin, Ohho, li Ii Smith going Wooooh: (ha, ha, ha) Then whenever they found out who it was, I commenced to laughin' they found out that I, who it was, ~aid)"Bennie) you ought to never do that. I tried ii If my best to get ahold of that shotgun. If I had, I'd a shot you. You wasn't (I tryin' to get no gun, you were just a hollerin'woooh (ha, ha, ha.) L. ! Now tell us about the time you rode that ole hog through RobertstoWD. wlvy IE When I was about six year old there in Robertstown we didn't have no stock law, all the hogs run outside - cattle and everything, I didn't have a ~cJ'-4~ .~ ~e) pony to ride. My father had a big ole ~t;a~~ sow. I just yelled for him, got him up to the fence where I could get on him, got to eatin' corn and I jumped straddled my bQnk and I scared that ole hog - ran on through RobertstoWD page - 14l- like a light - made about two or three rounds through there and all ~.tuvM the kids hleed it.. where I lived there we called it kids street, "pig s- -=- turd avenue, and I was ridin that hog and made about three or four rounds - .::;.- through Robertstown. Now there was an ole house down there and it had a basement mnder it. me seeing me ridin I was lookin back a laughin ' at the kids runnin after ""~ Iu, 1'v~71 iw ',,( that hog and that hog ~tJlaiV81 ~'14:iAJti:tL~ go woosh woosh, woosh woosh. I was ridin that ole hog and I was lookin back and that thing went und81that floor and just as I tu~ned around why the hog ran under the floor and I come off boy. I never will firgit that. Ole hog went on through the floor I, I couldn't get her to stop, ran on through Robertstown. I never got such a whoopin in all my life. My father started Whoopin and I uz a hollerin. YO~ heard of d</"",,1;, 7fV","'~ IVI " 1,,"1 people going ~.Qwt~lt.hog but I was gain through Robertstown on a hog - Boy I wuz havin a ball as long as it lasted. Joel: Now tell us another loggin story Bennie: We wuz loggin' in Clayton, Georgia. up there. we go back on top the logs out by horses. We had a band mill 'vd of those high mounUir1J>/ ep=-- pull We hadda IJttle old road we .dug so horses could stand up. It wuz on a railing road and we had to dig out, dig out places in the side horses to one side, I had a what we where you could pull your WriA t\ ~'tJ. In1 Nt called a j bar it .pp9.~~d- ...tr kinda like a fish hook. You fasten your hook on there, you T D iv ,;iiti~fr' 04.,.( had to knowAthat hook because you turn that hook the logs ud get to rollin so fast the horses couldn't stay out of the way you'd pull um in that we called a j hole and you'd pull your horses in Ill'I) there and-the logs would come on down the mountain and1we'd go on in later and pick a fellow by the name um up.so this time the ground was froze and &\l'~ of Abernathy and he was drivin a team too /loggin> and we wuz up the mountain and I comin off of the mountain and he wuz comin, bAcK saw him a comin. I waited till he got about halfway up the mountain)wasn't no j holes no where around. R,1)fj I got my logs started}turned um loose. Ole Gus"had to run about half a mile to get out of the way of the log~every time he'd hit the ground he'd holler "lbok out poppy, look out poppy!" I never seen a feller run as fast in all my life. so he go back to the landin he'd sai~'poppy you'd better watch out, that Bennie Caudell'll il kill you, he'll run them logs right over top of you, so old Gus - page -i- he'd never would look come up that road no more he knew I wuz on one road ! uz at,the he'd go the other' n. He nE'ver would come back where I\;~~ ground a being <~ ~~everything ud make the logs run fastH you know you peel/you part about thirty logs together. and peel youa~eather log cause you always put your big log in ~~ front/and had what we called a headder drag with aAin it, put your drag in that and git um started/pull all your slack up off your logs and your horses start you pull one log at a time and the weight of that~headder log it pulls the rest of the logs. So you peel your headder log and you turn it up on the slick behind your hor~e start it by pullin up on the slick, you can bank twenty- five thirty logs at the time down the mountain. They get to travellin so fast you really got to move to get out of the way of um. I tell you.Ole Gus was bowllegged anyhow)! never seen a man run S$ fast in my life. Joel: Now tell us one about old Pearl Bennie: Well I had a little old horse name Pear~ bought her in Whit"I~:t<:~;'tjA1<iEr'i pavillion in Atlanta; give seven dollar and a half for her. She wuz a three year old when I brought her home) supposed to a been an outlaw.so back in '33 we didn't have no work to do no how. they had plenty a time to mess around with horses so I'd taken this little horse and trained her myself,trained her to where she would uh lay down, kneel, tell her to say a prayer and she'd page -'f- kneel down and close her eyes, I could get her up on a stump with all four feet, SiSick up he.r hat, throw your hat down, just be a make out pick it up and hand ~ud her, sittin there and throw your hat down and she'd *'" ().<ll).i"'- it to you. So old feller he knew about like I wuz drunk " and I'd falloff and nobody could and she wouldn't let nobody come near me. So this old feller Amicus AbernaUl'{, he talked about liddenen a steer. how well they had urn trained. Well " Ii he knew about this ole horse. I told him I said; well Amp) my !f r horse was trained a whole lot better than that. Sai~ I know it, i/ I know it, he talked funny. I told him I run her a coon hunt,~. I, ~i I' Yeah, he said,I, I, do sea.~ allover the mountains where you been f' wid her. We got some falls up there where we call um Annie Ftuby Falls. I told him I wuz a coon hunt.f,dt{, one night comin down off of them fallsi and I didn't know I was on the falls till I got about half way down)discovered I was fallin off the fall~I told A JJ IA him she wastrained so well I says.whoa, the horse stopped and I got off and then she went Of~o/~J~: ~alls. So Amp he, it didn't register on him right at the start. About two hours after that ""'-. he come back. He got to studyin4i how couldstop a horse, her fal11n on down the falls. He said, "Bennie Caudell you just told me a lie. That's what you done. Ain't no horse couldn't stop halfway down the falls. II I Imowed darn well old Amp cause he was just a kickin up rocks. Get him angry just kickin up rocks well you better move cause could really throw a rock. You had to run clear out of his way. page ~Q- Joel: Tell us what you did to the teacher when you were going to school? Bennie: Well we had one teacher up .here wuz Bob Kensey. He wuz an old fellow. Back when I was gain to school, uh/ we had ole wood heaters. You had to go out and cut your wood. so I was always mean and into somethinl$ anyhow so they always M-me out~ t cut~the wood cause I was strong and I'd ruther be a working than studyin anyhow. Vh that day it wuz rainin, snowin.pretty cold, I and I went out and cut ~e wood, brought ,f-t in some wood and laid '1fr..o. ~I ut1k 1:J,..tL it over Ii.LlIe fia;g to g" L het and wf!lli/t back to -Ill'f stmlr and started go out to get It He said.go on and I said a rnan'll\ll!l'l get I. He said/Bennie, go on, (- warm my hands first. out to warmin my hands. (t' if some wood. I said.lemme f get some wood. He said you'll get used to it, I' used to anything. I So we had an old table there that we used for a desk. As I went by his hat was layin on it. I just picked up his hat and carried it wid me as I went out. We didn't have bath- rooms, we just had a little ole outhouse. I went and took his hat up in the woods, that little outhouse/turned that sweatband :IJ..L., down on the inside o~his hat. I got me a stick, went over to that outhouse/got me some of that stuff and I mean I smeared it all around his sweatband,.1:1TI'ne'd it back in, I turned the sweat- band back up carried it on back in ffi)' hat te the schoolhouse and laid it on the desk, they never did see me. That evenin school turned out, he got his hat and put it on. He could smell it but he didn't know what it was; where it was at. He'd look allover his shoes, his find out where Mr Kinseyy said page -(11- /<-;" pants," he wuz just lookin '1M tJ- it~. One of the girls uh, "he~ actin awful funny, everwhere. Never could b sai~ Mr 8ennie) look at said he must be losin (i his mind or somethi~ look at him, said he's actin awful funny. I said aw hell don't pay too much attention to him, don't worry /' about/he'll get used to it~ I reckon he got used to it. He wore that hat all all the whole season of school about seven montht. So I reckon a man can get used to anything, he did with that hatijust about busted a gut tryin to find iout where itt at. 1m.PE II Joe] G):'oss Tape II gain to school well we had a old wood heaters had to go out and cut your wood so I was always mean and into somethin. anyhow so they was always lettin me out cu\btin wood cause I wuz strong and ud rtA;ther be a workin than studyin anyhow. So that day it wuz a rainin, snowin, pretty cold and I went out cut wood and brought in some wood and laid it over in the corner of the house schoolhouse. Went back to the stove and I uz standin there warmin my hands. It It go out and get some more wood. I sai~well let me (( He said; Bennie warm my hands first. M Said/go on and get some wood, said you'll get used to it; said a Ii man'll get used to anything. So they had an old table there that he'd use for a desk. So as I went by his hat's a layin on it. I just picked up his hat, carried it wid me as I went out. So we didn't have bathrooms, we just had a little old outhouse so I went and took his hat up in the woods/that little outhouse, turned the sweatband down on the inside on tho inside of the his hat. I got f14ewA stick/g,?t under .e:o.. that outhouse) got me some of that stuff ;:~ and I smeaA-ed it all around his sweatband, carried it back down f1'!, there turned the sweatband back up and carried it.back into the house in the schoolhouserand laid it on the desk. He never did see me. So that evenin when school turned out he got his hat and put it on. He could smell it but he didn't know what it was, where it was at. He'd look allover his shoes, his pants, his coat, he just lookin everwhere but he never could find out where it was at. One of the girls said/Mis Bennie look at Mr. Kinsey, said uh he's actin awful funny said he must be a losin his mind ;1 ...., page .l.'~ <, or somethin,look at him said he's actin awful funny. I said why l hell don't pay too much attention to it/don't worry about it /' he'd get used to it. I reckon he'd got used to it, he wore that hat all all of the whole season of school about seven month. So I reckon a man can used to anything. He did with that hat cause he never did quit huntin or tryin to find out where it wuz at. Mike: You're listening to Benjamin Caudell ,Mountain man. Lived r in the mountains all his life. He's fifty one years old. Bennie's goigg to tell us another story now. Bennie: This was back in the thirty's when ever we wuz a workin the roads. Times couldn't a kinda hard up here then. You couldn't do nothin. There wasn't no work to do. Wasn't no work to do. You had to work out on,a work the county roads for to pay / your tax. I wuz workin for my fatherjpayin his tax. We had bfug plows that we pulled/mules lour teamll. So I wuz a mule skinner. I wuz drivin a team. I'd ride one mule, and drive the other three but they's all pullin the plow. So one day at dinner we wuz all out there layin down eatin our dinner. I heard somethin comin down 1if0 (1[ the mountain. An old feller by the name of Pings Dover. He's If it jumped up and hollered; run boys run. So we all we didn't know what ""'" it was all abou\we all run. I saw somethin rolli~ looked like a hOof'; so that's what it was/a hoop snake sorta/the only hoop,hoop snake I ever saw. Well where we'z a settin the snake page I 't f( 's -cX'a i gJ~"'-e=eU out, S'~retche@ out/, he had a spur on the end of his tail. Stuck that spur in a white oak tree. Old man George Dover said that tree ud die within three day~ so I watched that tree very close to see if it did. Sure enough it did. In three days time it was died. Mike: Did the snake stick in the tree? .$rllte Bennie: Yea he stuck in the.tree so some of em killed it. So I never saw another hoop snake. But that that one really had the power by it when it stuck in that tree. I wuz railroadin. We used to do a lot of railroad work up here. Haul the logs out to the March Brothers Lumber company. So we wuz rippin steel. We wuz doin rip steel then by hand. Had the hooks we call dogs that we handled steel with. So there wuz myself and a bunch of colored fellers. I wuz the caller. I worked .J~ on the front. So as I'd call_ they'd we'd all work together as a ! team. So there's a new guy come in. Colored boy. He wuz wantin to work)a job to work. So they put him on. These colored fellers they didn't care if/whether you was white or blacJ~if you wuz in theRe you worked. So th,rippin that steel why they put this boy with another feller. And I was a-callin. You'd holler. YoJd take your spikes out of the rail and you'd buckle your dogs on, and we kept the log car ,uh we wuz a haulin rails on long in front of the where we wuz taking rail up. .&;, we'd l'ip it out and then we'd lay it over on the log car. And whenever you'd call why you'd you'd page J {f if say you'd holler buck along boys everybody'd buck along. then f holler/"set it 01llCR in Carolina,"that was the rear end of the steel, the ones that wuz workin on the rear they'd set it over to u d the right. You'd holle~ back in Georgi~ they set it back to the left I was a breakin steel loose from the tres. Then you'd N holle~ take it on you boys and youd go back one time, up forward. Catch it up in a,about even with your shoulders. If you didn't know what you wuz doin,I it would really throw you. SCi Tlnis , old; new b U boy that we put on to work1when I hollered take it on you boys well they throw'd it on him.so we wuz on a railraod tr~ssla it was about 'tw(mty foot to the waterJit threw this boy off. the river. He went off into c,tfii'1l. Instead of anybody gittin exited about it theN'Solored feller looked over the side of the trUssle when he went in All Ii t. they said wa~ Bye Bye Blackbird. Mike: How much did one of those railroad t,es weigh? Bennie: Weigh'd uh. You talken about the rails,Geai~the rails weighed sixty pounds to the foot. Mike: How long were they? Bennie: They"wA-~ twenty feet long. Mike: Twenty feet long. And how many men did they have on the rail? Bennie: Mike: Ther~ wuz six of us. An awful lot of weight. WhGUBennie left his railroad job they gave hirn his dog "he was a caller and he'd worked so long with the railroad they gave it to him. There was 12 men to the :rail, why that's six mlii'M to the side, page 1 '. when you figure tha t upI That's about a hundred pounds a piieee but I if youre not careful it can really tear you up. Back in tIle early forties, around 194~ Ben was workin in Clayton, Georgia workin on the Mountains loggin,draggin logs down the hill, down the mountain and Be~nie's got a story about that. Bennie: Well we uz a loggin back there on those high mountains, A You had to have;uh/log with horses. Couldn't get anything else up there it was so steep.So we had a little old road we dig JW5 roa~where the horses could walk. On the side of that road we'd di~uts/we called urn j holes. So when your horse corne down the mountain, get your/the logs get to runnin so fast you couldn't get out of the wa~we pull um a what we called a j bar. in that j hoJes I the logs r01.1 on by. Had had a a beard on it kinda like a fish hook. So you'd turn your hook, hang it over that beard but you had know how to turn your hook, to keep it from catchin under- neat~ your j bar pullin your horses down the mountain. So we wul. gain down on this :road. Gus" Abernathy he wuz a ~::;~, wid me. Breakin a new road you got uh lot a loose rock/and eomin down t/",,\,,, the mountain why logs uh logs,ed break those rocks loos~ the rocks comes in behind you so you got to watch those things too, they'll run over you, cripple you. So when I go to break a new road/just as soon as I git it where it wasn't no loose rocks or anything on it Gus' {1j;~"",,;&1",,1Y page J he'd wanta swap roads wid mel want me to go on break another un. So this time we wuz comin off the mountain, I, I set my log$up, had urn all trailed up one behind the other un, nailed together with grabs. I waited ole Gus got half up the mountain so I hooked my team to the log, jerked it over on its slick, we peeled it, one side of it to where A.t'd tul~be slick and run fast, by it a bein' slick it'd pull the rest of the logs. Ole Gus got about half up the mountain, I went by the first j hole, into the second j hole I pulled the horses in. Ole Gus he looked up and he seen those logs a comin after him. I never seen a man run as fast in my life. He gain down that road.he was bowlegged. Every time he'd hit the f ground he holler "Look out poppy, Look out poppy." And those logs run him plum on into the landin. The landin wuz where we would roll the logs up so you could load urn on the trucks, haul urn into the mill. Gus, A tllat I was"breakin. uh, he he never would come up another road MIf he knew I was on that road"he'd go another / roa~he wouldn't corne that one. He told his father said, "Poppy you'd better look out said.that Bennie Caudell's up that road he'll f kill you, He'll run a log a log over you. lt Mikel Bennie you told me a story once about the time you rode a pig through Robertstown, do you want to tell it to me again? Bennie: That wuz back when I wuz about seven or eight year old, we lived there in Robertstown,didn't have any ponies to ride. My father he had a big ole spotted polal1d China sow. I decided I'd //.:;(/16 that hog. I got me some corn, shelled, shelled it next to the fence where she come up clost enough for me to git on her. She got~~retty close to the fence~~ I jumped st:caddle of her. I scared that hog to death. 'She went through Robertstown, I mean she was a-diggin dirt. Every time she'd hit the ground she'd go whoosh, whoosh, whoosh. So there was about 25 or 30 kids lived there in Robertstown, all those children wuz right after me seein what was takin place. I made two or three laps around through RObertstA:!Jn on that so~ and the little old street there where we lived we called it fIi~i Street and pig .~;~ avenue. So I went up through that kids stree~ comin back down pig turd avenue, there'so an old house out where the hogs slee~under it there's a basement under tha~ and the hogs get underneath that house I'd forgot about that~ow gain under that floor. and sleep. So So I wuz lookin back at those kids! I wuz that wuz runnin after me. Ju~;t as I looked back the old sow she went under the'hous~ boy I, I caught that house right face first. I turned about twa or three surnrners~t1.-e~and that old sow she went out from under the floor; Lt- left me layin in a ditch.l You heard tell of people goin on down Florida on Ihhog but I was ridin through Robertstown on a hog. And my father and mother/that scared all the grown people just about half to deatl;; hearin that "'og take on they didn't know what wuz takin place. You talk about gettin a whippin, my I mean they worked ~l o,.~~ me over. So I, I uh"never did ride any~hog through Robertstown, that broke me from ridin hOr page 1. C} _ w~ w&ttS Back in '37"'they had a CC camp going round. You would work 30 dollars a month and board. That was pretty good money back then. So I got a CC camp they sent me to south Georgi~ down out from Lumpkin, Georgia. When a new guy c~me in/go into camp why they'd always thelYj? ole guys hollerin "f.resh meat, fresh meat." So they'd take a young feller, new guy and out of these cities and they~ just scared him to death and I mean they'd work him over. They didn't know I wuz a little country corn fed boy. So uh they had and old boy there by the name Norman Peacock. He was a champion So he'd uh go boxer in camp. My dad was in camp up here at Hobertstown ilnd I'd Nt'"" a. , """- {;; ho;:; been around that and I knew how they worked, how things went. S0'5" A.<.-. t<: ~k 1A1.J ~, w~ .... "'~heY'd uh put ole Norman in the ring whIm a now guy Ud-G8IAC il'l. H "",{ iJ,L. J.r- He jusv. gonna spar a round, train that boy to box. a few rounds wid im, then ttll this boy said "look down now your shoe's unti ed. Hey buddy, your shoe's untied." Wherl thfL1 boy'd look down to see if his shoe wuz untied ole Norman'd knock him ~1A out. So that go down or'" his record bout how many knockoutS he had. So he got after me wantin me to box with him. I told him I never saw no boxing gloves! didn't know what it was all abou} but I'd been a cuttin timbe~ pullin a cross cut saw-that's a two man S\tJrt saw where uh one get on oneAand another on the other'n and you' bear down and try to take it away from each other. That's the way you cut your log in two. So I was long winded, pretty tough tOOl and he kept on to me to wantj,lme to box wid him, 1. played dumb) page didn't have to play too much but I played a little dumber than I wuz;so told him I got in the ring wid im. We went two or three round" I if It I said,looky there your shoes untied. He looked down to see where his shoe' was at. to see if his shoe wuz untied sure enough, so I laid one on him, I knocked him out. on my record. So that went down An old second lieutenant there in camp he wuzAfrom ~, Blue Hidge, (;eor9ia;he wanted to know where I wuz from. I told hirJIG'bertst~ rjJJht at the foot of the Unicoi Mountain He (r said. well he he'd tell I wuz a mountain hoosier, way I act and what ; It I donE!. So he wuz a manager fer boxer~lI. They wanted us all to /)0 in to boxin/we had to get you,lllll parents to sign a paper fOJ: ya/ so he give me my papers. I made out like I sent urn home/ 1 v;'f\lt put in rny locker and kep urn bout a weel);; si9ned urn wid my w,,"-'>.JuwfT" left ha,Jd so they w8l,lld'l~L reconize my handwrite. 1 knew my mothe;:, I didn't want to worry her and she knew if I went boxin it would throw a strain on her. But they wouldn't let us smoke, drink or anything. After I in trainin, they'd give him my release papers back they~ put us V1 have~take us out every mornin.take us out , every mornin bout nine rnile/uh five mile to town. They'd haul us out there and just set us out/we'd run back. The man 'lot back to camp we'd wouldn't let give him a carton of tarnel cigarettes, but they Vi/! him smoke a one of~. He'd just sell um, or give urn away whatever he wanted to do with um but he couldM't smoke f um. So they had us a runnin, jumpin, doin pushups, chinnin poles, somethin all tlw time to keep us from 6e1.n into anythina else. iou;Jeh it, you ha~ they said they had to learn you to take a.~ on the nose withotit gettin angry. page They wouldn't let us out to go to town or anything_ So they'd have us dig holes. I've dug a many a hole six foot deep, six foot square, he'd pick up a piece of paper or have a cigarette, he'd [i be a smokin a cigarette and he flip it in that hole and say,that's a nice job Bennie-fill it up! All you could do was to look at him and smile and fill it right back up. They'd have us a diggin ditches,the~d be one a diggin a ditch with a spade, short handled / spade. Just as fast as youd could dig it maybe dig fer an hour look )./J ) back behind you) be one comin right behind you filIin v-, just as " as fast as you was diggin it. But you couldn't say anything about If you .ever got angry in ring why you uP wuz done just as well as to give up cause you wuz aLr:eady wh~ed. ;.. You'd leave yourself open or do the wrong thing if you got angry . So I boxed about seven months, I had forty three fi9thts and out of that forty three fights I won forty one of urn, I had thirty nine knockouts. Last ioy I boxed was an Italian boy and I.he left a .- J I openin and I hit him too har~ .roke three of his ribs, punctured his lung;he'd takern~monia and died. He always said it wasn't my fault. I went several times to t@ hospital. He told me not to feel bad about it, it wasn't my fault. r; /.; \ ~"" C-tJ'T ( This uh about a friend uh mine. We used to, we used to go out and range cattle for people for a dollar a head. Way we done up hereI if you couldn't gerone thing to do you'd t:cy another. So we'd take you had an open range. We'd take, herd the ) cattle out, say seventy five or a hundred head each) each one of page us ud have about a hundred head apiece. So we had horses)so we'd go out and ride these horses and range these cattle. We'd go see about our cattle about once ta week/we had these traine~ cattle trained so we could call urn and they'd come to us. So these cattle,theyll u~we put bells on urn and we could ride out on top of those mountings and we could hear, the)hear the bell and then we'd call)the cows~C\~~~ud come we'd always take salt with us and they. they'd come for that salt. So then we'd in J w- the falll we'd get out and we'd round up the cattle drive i-R in and we'd get paid for urn, wouldn't get paid tell that fall. So most of the time there'd be a lot of young calves in the .~ ,~ t I.e herdfand we done a lot a ridin, huntin, fishin, things like that/we'd hunt and fish, we enjoyed the mountains anyhow. So that was just sour grapes to get out and herd cattle. Called ourselves cowboys. So we had a lot of fun. We were out in those mountains, stay for sometimes I have stayed as high as eighteen weeks. I wouldn't come out, the rest of the boys they'd come out and they'd bring food back fer us to eat. While they wuz gone hogs I'd be huntin, fishin. So we'd kill/back then we had wild lnlln . . th"e mounT~lngs ,,-. ancj wh d en roun up . t'Hne come we 'd. go out "..-' and we'd kill us a bunch of hogs, hang urn up and be colE! weather why you could hang the hog s""p , they ud keep, they wouldn't I . spoil. But most of the time our families at home/they needed meat/so when the other boys ud hogs butcherc,d;they' d take the other food for us to eat to go go out we'd get four or five 'f'I' meat out then they'd bring back h with their meatJso uh this time page 2- one of the boys went out, he wuz gain to bring back food, so his father wuz raisin chickens. So I heard him on top of the mounting; he wuz hollerin "hey Bennie, hey Bennie." I thought he wuz hurt uh got in his father's chicken house. horVl he wuz raisin white leg~ hens When I got there/why the ole boy he He'd h01"1'I So he had I uhl white leg'l4Atlj eggs. I didn't know, I t:I-.c- So I helped him tote" chickens) so I went to him. to fer ! thought his father had gave um to him. or carry the chickens on down to the camp. As we got down there we just turned urn loose. Bout two days after that his father came into the camp where we wuz at. White legged chickens gain every- where/ so'~Jle 'd We hnew Believe he had 27. So hfus father, he he knew the chicken~ missed urn so that wuz his reason up there, huntin for us. that I wouldn't bother his chickens, he knew that I didn't have anything to do with it. So he came on in the camp where we wuz at. He asked me about the chickens, I said, "Yea~ l,.'irf11 Claude brought back a bunch of chickens. I thought you gave t4 il IA ,f C( to him. "No, he said, I didn't give um to him. ~aic) ~e got urn while II I wuz asleep. So he. wanted me to pay fOr half the chickens. I sai~ no sir I haven't eat any of the chickens so I don't pay for um." So we'd killed a ho~ dressin a hog, back then uh the hogs run wild. What you/you'd kill a hog without a mark, we called it a mark,identification,it was uh you split the ear. Some ,- " people marked with a swaller fork in the right, crop in the left. That' s where you cut a fork in the right ear then cut th,? other ear off smooth. Some of them had two smooth crops and then just cut a round hole in the ear. But the hogs that we wuz killin page wuz wild. They wuz didn't belong to anybody just whoever got urn, ,"~ was their l~, the hog belonged to them. So the way we'd cleaA these hogs, we'd uh dig us a pit, we'd dig a trench in, run the water into this pit. We'd get that pit fulla watler. Then we'd \>19 heat rocks. Build us a fire and pile her full a rock~get those rocks good and hot and we " throw urn off in that pit of water. Wouldn't be but just a little while we'd boil, the water'd be lV~~A~~' boilin) so you'd put your hog down in that water and you'd pull ''7!lJJr "'Il' out then you had to scrape him, clean, get all the hair offAhim. It wuz rough but we/we'd done a pretty good job4~0 he wanted one of half o~ one of those hogs to pay for the chickens. So I let him have the hog that I'd killed, 1,1 gave him half of it. So "'"' there wuz his boy,\he came back in camp and I told him his father f had been there. Told him he'd stole the chickens 'and I gave of that (""10. hog half hoq ,;m the pay for the chickens. That made ) hiIl~ him Q he said)I'm gain get II pretty angry. He said,well I know where my fatt,er's got 80 dollars. 1\ @! , fr (I Said I'll get that before rnornin. I sai~ no don't do tha~ yeahI II it. Well he left camp,there wasn't anythin I could do about it. He went on in. Sure enough he went and got the 80 dollars. He go over what we called an old ridge road,used to be the main road runlt along the ridge of the mountl'ing going '-' from Robertstown to Helen. Feller had a pasture fence. So this boy h~ he pulled up one of those posts. He put that 80 dollars down in the hole, then put the ~ost back i0 you looked at the post you couldn't tell it ever been disturbed, moved. So they had Claude locked up. His father carne all the way back into camp where I wuz at,wanted me to come out and talk to Claude. Said page Claude had stole the last penny h~ had, 80 dollars. Wanted to know if I knew anything about it, I said all I know,uh1wuz that he wuz angry about the hog/about the chickens/so he said he wuz goin to g~ ~. he knew where you had 80 dollarsr he wuz goin to get it, But what he with I don't know. So he offered me half of it if I'd go tell him! er go get Claude to tell me where the, money wuz. I didn't want any part of L J. L. But I, I wouldn't go out then. So they kept Claude in jail for about 7 days and I got ready to com," out, I cJtme on out and went on down to the jail to talk to Claude. He told me where it U. if II WUZ. I sai~why don't you tell your father, he sai~no. I won't tell II him. Wanted me to go get the money. If I didn't use i~burn it. That wuz a very mean trick a Claude cause his father0had worked pretty hard. 80 dollars back then wuz,it wuz like a thousand dollars now. So I talked Claude into tellin his fatherEwhere the mone~ wuz. So the law/the sheriff he carried him back. p Claude uh pulled the post up, the money wuz all there. So they let Claude go free. I never would have none, anything else to do with Claude cause he got to where he'd steal his father's cows, and kill um, sell um ou~ he'd he'd uh put, aJ ki 11 urn and butcher urn; after he'd butcher urn he'd cut ..~t:i~w<'~ urn up and EJ"6i\around from house to house and sell urn. So I always v,v figured the best thing to do to keep from havin get"involved in trouble or/wuz to stay away from that kind of stuff even if it was a good friend of you/to you" why best thing to do wuz,when you seen they wasn't doin the right thing you just don't don't keep their company. You don't have to associate with people like that. So I always figured that honesty wuz the best policy in the world. And that a man had to live with hisself 24 hours a day. You know each l) page .Jr- I day'~ what you do and long as you can study yourself and think wel~where am 17 What am I doin? How can I better myself? What can I do to help my neighbor? How can I be a better friend to rny friends? I always enjoyed friends. I love rny friends. [v'loney won't buy em. My friends are priceless. And when I say I love a man I love him with all my heart. l')give my life for him if it taken it. I'd pull my shirt off and give it to a man if I tIling on earth/and lovei comes frDm God, that's I'd put scuffle. So I think love thought he needed ;,;r just for a man to come up and takeAoff of ; up a pretty good But I .:J;. worseI' thanAdid. I'd I'd I Guess I " is the greatest the only way a feller'11 ever get to heaven is through love. This ck! 51 soon as beln soon scaLed 3.S his and c., , e\l. T.ee, one minute,say you love the lord then, you qet over your scared spell ;~ then riqht back doln the things that you shouldn't do. Greatest thing on earth is keepin yourself clean. And if a man keeps hisself clean, free from all these evils and things like tha~the best thing for him to do is to study hisself at all times and try to keep hisself from all this, well he's qat a ;he' s got a ,all the work he can do, every- thing's cut out for him. I wuz raised to love people. People-not just certain people, but all people. It didn't mattor about the color a their skin, their heigth, their age, but all people. And love is been a wonderful thing, way to live is to love each and it's a great thing it's the only .:(:~1l ':YVI .. ~. ~t{'-",J; a-A ~,~\ every oneAand wJ;,.en you ve done I t'I..~y.........-,>~ all you can do/tha~ all you can do. So I, I'm not a preacher but I dispise preachers, most of urn. I lost confidence in urn when I '1'1 page 1- was about 12 year old. Preachers and doctors are two things I don't like to fool with. But I do know that God in heaven. I know he's up there and I don't have to have no little jack-legged preacher to tell me he's up there because I know he's up there. WeLL I'singf~ a little song. I'm not much of a singer but a little song about a cowboy; A jolly group of coliiooys, there's nothin'i standin true Sez I'll tell you somethin boy~ if you will listen to /14.) I am~old cowpu.ncher, like you a11 dressed in raqs I used to be a tuff un boy and takin on big bra,s When I left my home boys my mother really cried i'1M.."~ A begC)in me not to leave her, for 0Re she would have died I'm a goinC) backlo see her, my mother's love is all And with God's help I'll see her when the works all done this fall Well that very night poor Charlie went out to stand his guard The night was dark and stormy, it was rainin very hard The cattle all C)ot ftightened, rushed out on a wild stampede Poor Charlie tried to heAd them while riding at some sr~ed IJd page ~O_ I1lf While ridin through the darkness, the letter he did shclH A Tryin his best to herd them, and turn the herd about But his saddle horse did stumble, upon him he did fall And the boy won't see his mother love when the work's all done this fall. Well its Jack you can ,have my pistol, and Bill you can have my belt And George you can have my saddle, after I am dead I'm a gain to a new ranch, I've heard my my master call And I won't see my mother love when the work's all done this fall. Well they buried poor Charlie at daybreak, no tombstones at his head.
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Professor John Burrison founded the Atlanta Folklore Archive Project in 1967 at Georgia State University. He trained undergraduates and graduate students enrolled in his folklore curriculum to conduct oral history interviews. Students interviewed men, women, and children of various demographics in Georgia and across the southeast on crafts, storytelling, music, religion, rural life, and traditions.
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