Craig Mundt interview with Virginia Gray Simpson, Fannie Mae Allen, and Mary Lee Cooper (part one)

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This is part one of a two part recording. The interview begins with a short performance of the song Tobias and Towunkus by Virginia Gray Simpson. At 1:24 Fannie Mae Allen describes Black folk songs that she learned while working on cotton fields with her mother and in church. She then sings: Down by the Riverside, Jubilee, Nobody Knows the Trouble I See, and I Got Shoes. At 18:20 Fannie Mae Allen recounts the history of the song Amazing Grace and the story of its author John Newton, a former slave ship captain turned abolitionist. She then sings Amazing Grace, followed by When I Lay My Burden Down'' and I Know My Jesus Cares, two songs commonly sung during church service. At 37:02 Fannie Mae Allen recounts a local ghost story her father told her about a dog that discovered a ghost while on a hunting trip. At 40:10 she talks about her life as a teacher, specifically how little she and her fellow teachers were paid, sometimes nothing, so she also worked on a farm. At 46:11 she talks about the cotton crop failures that she experienced and shares why she believes she was living through an age of man-made famine. She connects the conditions she lived through in 1967 to the seven-year famine of ancient Egypt that was caused by sin.
Virginia Gray Simpson (1926-1998) was born and raised in Courtland, Alabama, to Edward Waters Gray (1881-1965) and Louise Thomson Gray (1897-1983). She married Robert Edward Simpson (1914-1983), the mayor of Courtland. Fannie Mae Allen (1897-?) was born and raised in Courtland where she worked as a school teacher for over thirty years. Mary Lee Reynolds Cooper (1868-1963) was born in Athens, Georgia, to Susan Mayne Jennings Reynolds (1843-1913) and Charles Wesley Reynolds (1839-1906), who served as an officer in the Third Georgia Regiment, Company K, of the Confederate Army during the Civil War. She married William Thomas Cooper (1868-1939), and the couple had one son, S.R. Cooper, and four daughters, Susan Collier (1896-1980), J.W. Deakin, J.A. Brown, and N.D. Clayton.
Amazing grace (Hymn); Famine Stela; Biblical stories;
Folk Ballad Project by Craig Mundt for Professor John Burrison English 406 March 4, 1968 Georgia State College Atlanta, Georgia Page 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12-14 15 16-17 18-19 20 Table of Contents Mrs. Robert E, Simpson "Tobias and Towunkus" Mrs. Fannie Mae Allen "Down by the Riverside: "Jubilee" "Nobody Knows the Trouble I See" "I Got Shoes" "Amazing Gra.ce" "When I Lay My Burden Down" "I Know My Jesus CareS" How the Dog Treed a Ghost Cotton Crop Failure Mrs, William T. Cooper "The Old Fox" "Sorghum Molasses" Additional Sources 1 Mrs. Robert E. Simpson has lived in Courtland, Alabama since her birth. She is approximately forty-five and the wife of the mayor of Courtland. She has extensive knowledge of the ares's history but could only recall oDe song. "Tobias and Towunkus." r spoke with her on Saturday, February 3, 1968. She was reluctant to record her song but, with persuasion, she agreed to sing behind the closed doors of her dining room while we remained in the living room. The Simpsons suggested that we locate a Mr. Austin Bock in town, as he is a reknowned banjo player of the area. We pursued this man for over an hour but were frustrated in our efforts. Tobias Towunkus There was an old man who had two sons, And these two sons were brothers. Tobias was the name of one, Towunkus was the other. Now these two boys they had a horse, And this old horse was blind. Tobias in the saddle rode, Towunkus rode behind. And these two boys they saw s show, And this little show was free. Tobias saw an elephant, Towunkus he saw three. 2 Mrs. Fannie Mae Allen was born in 1897 and has lived her life in the area of Courtland, Alabama. Mrs. Robert Simpson, the mayor's wife, referred us to her maid's sister-in-law in the Negro Section of town. This prospect in turn sent me to someone else. It seemed a test of perseverence, as we were passed through nine different persons before being directed and intro- duced to Mrs. Allen, an 'obviously well-known local citizen. As a child Mrs. Allen had worked in the cotton fields with her mother and later managed to obtain schooling. She said she had spent some time at Alabama A & M. For thirty plus years she was a school teacher in the area, and is now living on a county pension. j4"r'I,,~~ W. When we first sat down in her home, she went to another room and returned with a book of Negro folksongs. At first I was afraid that she was going to sing out of it, but she only thumbed through the pages for the first few minutes we were there. Shortly, she laid the book aside and never referred to it while singing. Fannie usually sang with her eyes closed. She said that she had learned some of the songs from her mother and others had been learned in church. She has seen msny changes for her race and seemed quite appreciative of them. However, what I saw in this small community was one of the most blatant examples of segregation I have ever seen. I thought her social commentary (contained in the tapes) offered as much to this project as her music. 3 qll"t'/5I. ,e,plM,.,,,Q,;L, I/Ylf11 jj~,f!Ayt;',l~1J. BY the Riverside Going to lay down my burden, Down by the riverside, Down by the riverside, Down by the riverside, GOifig to lay down my burden, Down by the riverside, To study war no more. And I ain't goin' to study war no more t Ain't goin' study war no more, MlI't goin' study war no more, And I ain't goin' study war no more, Ain1t goin' study war no more, Ain't goin' study war no more. Goin' to put on my long white robe, Down by the riverside, Down by the riverside, Down by the riverside. I'm going to put on my long white robe, Down by the riverside, To study war no more. Jubilee Jubilee, Jubilee, oh Lord, Jubilee, Jubilee, my Lord, Jubilee~ Nobody Knows h! Trouble 1 Nobody knows the trouble I see, Nobody knows but Jesus. Nobody knows the trouble I see, Oh yes, Lord. If you get to heaven before I do, Oh yes, Lord. Just look for me I'm comin' too, Oh yes, Lord. Nobody knows the trouble I see, Nobody knows but Jesus, Nobody knows the trouble I see, Glory hallelujah. You've gotta robe, I've gotta robe, All God's children gotta robe. When I get to heaven goin' put on my robe, And shout allover God's heaven. You gotta crown, And I've gotta crown, All of God's children gotta crown. When I get to heaven goin' put on my crown, Shout allover God's heaven. 7 Amazing Amazing grace, how sweet the sound, That saves a wretch like me. I once was lost, but now I'm found, Was blind, but now I see. When .1 Lay .!:!y Burden Down (When I lay my burden down) ( Wi 11 be over) When I lay my burden down. Weepin' and moanin' will be over, When I lay my burden down. Burden Down, Lord, Burden down, Lord, When I lay my burden down. Burden down, Lord, Burden down, When I lay my burden down. Weepin' and moanin' will be over When I lay my burden down, Weepin' and moanin' will be over When I lay my burden down. (A/I" Does Jesus care when I\m}oppressed, ! know my Jesus cares, When my pillow is wet with the tears I've shed, I know my Jesus cares, Dh yes, my Jesus cares, Dh yes, I know my Jesus cares, Dh yes, my Jesus careS, I know my Jesus cares ,. .10 How the Dog Treed a Ghost "They use to talk about huntin' trips and how the dog treed a ghost and (it) faded out to nothing." --The dog treed a ghost? '~eah, they, that's what my father use to say. An old man died down thevenear where we lived. He said dog got on the track of something snd, Uh, of course, they were on their mules; and they followed the dog. They thought it was a possum or something butah this thing came and jumped up on a old table, .that. that, the old high table that they had set the coffin on, and went up II Chinaberry tree. And the dog wouldn't track no more, and they say that~~,~~ old man,," JJ Cotton Crop Failure "Oh,there have been quite a few drastic changes taking place in the last sixty years." --And I think you've probably seen and lived through the most drastic. "I've lived through quite a few of 'em, and as I told 'em about, ah, this. They were talking about this failure in the cotton crop . and in my speaking at different churches it just came to me. And I talked on this and the people really enjoyed it. I say we're living 1E man-made famine; You see, the famine of ancient Egypt WaS caused by sin. Jacob and Esau's mother was an unfair woman because she agreed for one son to have the birthright that was rightly due the other one. And, of course, that severed these brothers. One had to run away, and while he was traveling away from home, he layed down to sleep one night with a rock as his pillow. And while he lay there, he had such a lovely dream. He saw a ladder let down from heaven with angels ascending and descending to the throne of God. And when he woke he said, "Surely God must be in this place. Let us build a tabernacle. One for Moses and one for Elijah, and one for David.' And it wasn't too long before he sent a messenger to see would his brother receive him back. And when he made it back home he married and grew up sons. And one of his sons sold the other into slavex-y. See that sin following in their family all the way through. And after Joseph got into Egypt his Pharaoh~s wife caused him to be put in prison. Then Jacob his father thought that this boy had been destroyed. That's what these brothers went back and told. That he had been destroyed by some venomous beast, and his father's hair turned gray. He grieved about 12 this loss of ah, this, this, ah, son. And God caused Pharaoh to dream a dream, snd that dream troubled him on his bed so he couldn't sleep. And he sent throughout the kingdom to, ah, to find somebody to tell him the meaning o that dream. And somebody told him about the boy he had in the dungeon, and he sent for him. And he told him, give him time to thin~and when he finally came before him and interpret this dream he said, 'Yea king, live forever, the dream that you dream means there'll be seven years of plenty and then seven years of famine.' And, of course, when this famine, after the seven years of, he, ah, ah, elevated him up to be second king and pulled off the prison clothes and put him on a royal robe. And he Was, ah, put over the farm to, ah, save for the coming famine. And he build more barns and stored grain in order that they would ha~e enought to make it through the famine with. And when this years of plenty was over and the famine came. Jacob,his father, heard there were corn in Egypt, and he sent there to buy corn. And he, they didn't know their brother because he had on this royal robe, he was justa little boy when they sold him. He knew them but they didn't know him, and, and then he, ah, finally he give 'em the corn and he put the king's golden cup in Benjamin's sack and let 'em well adjourn of two days, and sent the police and arrest 'em and brought them back and told 'em they'd have to keep Benjamin because they had the king's gold cup. He was just trying make 'em think. And they said, no we can't do that because one of Qur brothers was destroyed many years ago; and if we gQ back withQut this baby boy, our father will die. And he kept 'em around there ,till evening and he fell on their necks and kissed them and said, 'I'm your brother that you sold. Go and get my father and all his household and bring 'em here and, I'll give 'em a land to live in and /3 feed for their stock until the famine was over. Then after that we skip the remaining part of that story and tied it in with 1957 (1967). In the beginning God said, 'Six days shall you labor and do all your work and rest on the seventh.' He said, 'Six days I made the heaven and the earth and the fullness thereof, and I rested on the seventh.' and God praised his own work by saying, 'It was good.' Then when he fiRally, ah, In 1957, '56, '55, '54 and on back from there, people took God's (1967) sabbath. Do everything on it. They gin and they pick cotton. They gin, they do everything on the sabbath. And I'm tellin' the people that God got tired of their wicked ways, and he took the sabbath back from 'em in 1957 (1967) with power. He wouldn't ever, let the He changed the climate and some of the cotton come up and died. Some of it did come up and he changed it so much so he let 'em know, 'I'm God and there ain't none like me and if it takes all of that for you to make the Lord, God of the South,Cotton, say I'll fix it so you won't have none to pick on a Monday,' and he did, didn't he. So we're liVing in the ~~ of .! man-made famine." --That's this year? I~m, huh (yes). Last year (Fall, 1967). And we don't know what they're going to do this year. We don't know whether God il; reac;ly to let 'em have the sabbath back or not." --Or cotton neither one. "He don't know yet'," Mrs. William T, Cooper was born in Athens, Georgia in 1868, Her father was Charles Wesley Reynolds who served as an officer, Third Ge~rgia Regiment, Company K, during the Civil War, He sang these songs to his daughter when she was a child. Mrs. Cooper was interested in preserving these songs but could not find any references to them in print, thus she made a recording, The record was made December 27, 1952 when she was 80, She died in 1963, Her daughter, Mrs. N, D. Clayton of Decatur, Ga, has compiled a complete family history, including copies of letters and songs which her father sent from western gold fields. Mrs, Clayton has agreed to let me copy these songs in the near utur~ and there are others which she said she would sing as soon as she recovers"from pharyngitis, Old fox started out one dark rainy night, And he prayed for the moon to spare him light Cause he had many miles to travel that night, Before he reached the town-e-o. Town-e-o, town-e-o, he had many miles to travel that night', Before he reached the town-e-o. At length he came to the farmer's yard, t+~!~~ Where the ducks and the geese were always ~alm (carved?) The best of you shall grease my beard Before we'll reach the town-e-o, town-e-o, town-e-o, The best of you shall grease my beard Before we'll reach the town-e-o. He caught an old duck by the back, All the rest went quack, quack, quack. i/' He slung' em around across his back > ( (And the feet went dingle-de-dang,le de-o/dingle de-o, dangle de-o. \ !"!'fJI(1%" Old Granny Widdlewaddle jumped out of the bed, Out of the window she popped her head. John, John, John the black duck's gone, And the fox has reached the town-e-o, town-e-o, town-e-o, John, John, John, the black duck's gone And the fox has reached the town-e-o. But the fox Till he got The Old Fox (Contin~d) John he run to the top of the hill Nk:"YJ","J And (Ye lled) for his hounds both loud and shrill, < 4eq<'; "1 (V,\J.AA.....;,,~~ AM~ct But the fox had the best of the (hills expelled) to the town-e-o, town-e-o, town-e-o, m~"v/j._\J{." <t-t.a;. had the best of the (hills expelled) Till he got through the town-e-o, Old fox started down to his den Where he had young ones nine or ten, He carved that duck up knife or fork And the young ones picked the bone-e-o, bone-e-o, bone-e-o, He carved that duck up knife or fork And the young ones picked the bone-e-o, 17 Sorghum Molasses As I went down to a Georgia town <." '\ (~) With the Georgia boys I courted around, And the Georgia girls who none surpasses They'all sweet as sorghum molasses. Bye and bye, bye and bye, I'll get married before I die, Bye and bye, bye and bye, Marry a girl with a pretty blue eye, The Georgia girls who none surpasses They'all sweet as sorghum molasses. If you were chance to walk the street The ladies look so gay and sweet, With a how-do-you-do, are you a traveler No, kind Miss, I'm a Goober Grabbler, Bye and bye, bye and bye, , , I'll get married before I die, Bye and bye, bye and bye, Marry a girl with a pretty blue eye. The Georgia girls who none surpasses They'all sweet as sorghum molasses. I bean to the North, I been to the South Time of a flood and time of a drought. 19 Sorghum Molasses (Continued) I've traveled much allover Europe, But I never saw the likes of sorghum syrup. Bye and bye, bye and bye I'll get married before I die, Bye and bye, bye and bye Married to a girl with a pretty blue ~ye. The Georgia girls who none surpasses They'all sweet as sorghum molasses. ~Id And now kind friends, I you adiU Sorghum's sweet, so are you. And when this cruel war is over I'll get a jug o'lasses and a pretty Goober Grabbler. Bye and bye, bye and bye I'll get married before I die, Bye and bye, bye and bye Marry a girl with a pretty blue eye. The Georgia girls who none surpasses They are sweet as sorghum molasses. ~!Ul C"Ifl.-~, (ArM j,"~Y'il o?IA J\l~"J"'~ 1ft, yV(d; t;)4lT~" e) There were informants to whom I was referred, but for lack of time or their availability, I waS unable to speak with these people. If someone can get into these areas they might try to contact the following: Huntsville, Alabama area Liskin Parkas - Tryon, Alabama Audie Parkas - Triana, Alabama Tom Landry - Madison, Alabama Austin Beck - Courtland, Alabama During the time spent in Fannin County, Georgia, I collected no material but can give the names of two persons who will be available in the future. Mr. Ules G. Collins had recently wounded his thumb and was unable to play his banjo; and his nephew, who also plays and sings, was at Hiawassee for the weekend. Ules G. Collins - Morganton, Georgia Everett Collins - Morganton, Georgia Anyone who is interested in a hand-operated 100m and observing spinning and carding of wool, should visit two delightful ladies, Dovie and Louana Walker in Suches, Georgia. They are 88 and 8S,respectively, and said they would welcome all future visitors. 2.0 Song Sources Liuted by .?age I,.umber ;Lj. .Lto:0J~t 3-o}n stlJ~L lj!af' No Mo":,. The Nesro And lIls SOl1gs. Howard Cdum and GUY Jollnson, un.lve:rsity of North carolina press, 1925. p. 101. #5. Jubilee. Down East Spirituals And Others. 1eor38 ?ullen-Jackson, J.J. Augustin, New york, 19Lj9. p. 140. #6. Nobo~ KnOl~S ?he Trouble 136e ,rhe second Book of Ne3ro 3pirituals~ Jamesl~eldon Johnson, rhe Viking press, New york, 1926. p. 34. #7. 1 Got ShJes also All God's Chillun Got Wings. rhe soak O1'Amerraa:o N83r'O-SpIr"ltuals. James-qeldon Johnson, The Viking press, New jOr'k, 1938. p. 71 . .8. Down J.J. Amazing Grace. Text by John Newton 1725-1807. East Spitituals and others. 3eorse pullen Jaokson, AugusLin, New york, 1949. p.140. H16-17. The Old Fox or The Old Black Duok. English Fall, 30nsSfroill the soutTiero Applachians. cecll ::3ha2p, Oxford uniVErsity Press, London, 1950. p. 302.
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Professor John Burrison founded the Atlanta Folklore Archive Project in 1967 at Georgia State University. He trained undergraduates and graduate students enrolled in his folklore curriculum to conduct oral history interviews. Students interviewed men, women, and children of various demographics in Georgia and across the southeast on crafts, storytelling, music, religion, rural life, and traditions.
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