Meeting of the Governor's Commission on Economy and Reorganization, held in the Governor's Office, State Capitol, Atlanta, Georgia, April 2, 1959: transcript of the proceedings, volume I [Apr. 1959]

MEETING OF THE GOVERNOR'S COMMISSION
ON ECONOMY AND REORGANIZATION.
The Governor's Office, State Capitol,
April 2, 1959 - 2:00 p.m.

VOLUME I.

WALTER F. BRANDENBURG

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1
MEETING OF
THE GOVERNOR' S COMi.'USSION ~
ECQNOMY Mm REORGANIZATION.
Held in t.he Governor's Office, State Capit.ol
At.lant.a, Georgia April 2, 1959
tRANSCRIPT OF THE PROCEgDINGS
VOLUME .1,.

f.RR.li.!IT

Han. S. Ernest Vandiver

Han. Garland T. Byrd

Hon. Jake Claxton

Han. George L. Smit.h, II: Han. Harry o. smith

Han. Carl E. sanders
Hon. John w. Greer

Mrs. Gladys Darling
Hon. James w. Keyton

Hon. Frank S. Twitty

Han. B. F. Merritt. Jr.*

Hon. Charles L. Gowen

Hon. Roy Sewell

Hon. Joe C. underwood

Han. lie H. Montague, Sr.

Han. Jay smith

Han. John DWlcan, Jr

.., (Absent.)

3 .f..B..QC'l!Q1.~5i'
SPEARER SMITH: The Governor is not here, nor is the Lieutenant-Governor here, 80 being third down the line, I will take over until they do come.
The first thing we would like to do is to have the citizen members of the Committee to be sworn in, and Mr. Henry Neal will administer you the oath of office.
(Citizen members of the Committee were S\'1Orn 1n by Mr. H(~nry Neal.)
GOVERNOR VANDIVER: Ladies and gentlemen, the first arder of business of this Commission would be to elect a secretary. The Chair will entertain naninations.
MR. TWITTY: I nominate Charles GoWan. GOVERNOR VANDIVER: You have heard the nomination. Are there any further nominations? MR. GREER: I move the nominations be closed. GOVERNOR VANDIVER: It. is moved the nominations be closed. Those in favor of the motion will rise and stand until counted. (Hands raised.) I declare Mr. Gowan unanimously elected by acclamation. Mr. Gowan, will you call the roll? (Roll call. All present except B. F. Merritt, Jr.) Mr. Gowan: Mr. Chairman, everyone is present except B. F. Merritt. GOVERNOR VAtIDlVER: First I would like to express my

4apprecia.tion to each and every member of th5.s COlffinitt.ee for their willingness to serve and do a job. We have a tremendous
job t.o do, and not one person whom I called, turned me dO'tm.. Every person t~S willing to serve and be of assistance. X am grateful for that will1nqness on your part.
I would like to apologize for being late. I was do\m in Brooks county yesterday for their Centennial, and the weather
was 80 bad last. night that we couldn' t come back, and we
couldn' t get a\tJaY until about 11:30 this morning. That. is the reason for my being late.
The maj or problems that this Commission has to face, in my opinion, are first., the overall budget functions ~
Second, department.al operationsl Third, personnel functions: Fourth, management: analysis: And fifth, struct.ural organization. Now we have prepared for the members of this Conuuiss10n an analysis by Dr. M. W. H. Collins, Jr., of the Department of Institute of Law and Goverrunent., SChool of Law, 'I'he University of Georgia: his analysis of what our problems are. Further, we have an analysis by Dr. l'-tanners, of the Atlanta Division, University System of Georqia. If you \>1i11 pass those out, we can look at them as t-{e qo along. In my opinion, the short-ra1lge objectives of this Con-.mission should be to evolve overall departmental guides for

5 buc1getirl.g, for travel, 0)': purc'hc.sing ~ for l?ersonl1(~l utiliza-
tion, for administration: in order that we may obtain ~r.ea~er efficiency and less waste~
Now there are many inunediate benefi.ts that can be w.ade lY.t administrative action, by the Executive Department, and by the various department heads of the State Goverrunent.
The long-range objective should, in my opinion, be structural reorganization of the government, better budqeting procedures, and separate pre-audit and legislative audit.
Certainly we should look into the field of management; under the authority system of financinq, our annual needs for paying off aut.hority indebtedness has increased until today it is well above $30,000,000 a year; about 100" of our total revenue.
on a long-range basis we should look toward capital im-
provements. We should study as to whether or not:. the best approach by this Commission should be on a sub-committee approach, breaking up the Camnission into sub-committees and studying the various departments of government.
I t.hink that this Commission should decide whether or no~ they have a full-time professional Staff Director. It. \'lould be my suggestion that you did. Every person bere is busy, and 1 think it ,.,i11 require full-time personnel to conduct the l(ind of study that this Cormn!ssion needs to do the job for the people.

6 It is possible t11at 't'1e should have a fl.lll-tlme p;:oft?r--!slon~
al staff director with tt~ associate directors, and an attorney.
I believe under the la\... tbat I was given tlle authority to name a full-time vice-chairman. I doubt very much tr..at .tt will be possible far citizen members of ~is Commission to devote enough time to the job to be a fU11-t1n~e vice-chairman, and for that reason I think it. would be well, in my absence, for the Lieutenant-Governor to preside over this Commission, and in my absence and his absence, for the Speake~ of the House to preside.
Staff~~rk will necessarily entail a great deal of detail. I think we should separate the staff work fran the policy,-Whicb certainly would be the primary function of this Comm:ssion, would be to determine the policy.
I think the staff, their job should be to gather facts and information, by a careful study of the various departments of government, and then br1ng this information to this Conl.'1littee in order that the Committee can act on facts, and set the policy and report to the General Assembly.
Now as to organization for staff work, I have already sought expert advice from the School of Business Administration, of Georgia State: the School of Industrial Mana<;Jement at Georgia Tech.; the School of Business Administration at the University of Georgia: the Institute of Law and Government at

7
tht;~ Un! ve:rslty 0:' Georgia; ar.td :frOc,.l the Schoo;' of BusJ.1H'J;';S
Administration at Emory University. The officials of these various Schools have offered thelr
cQW~lete cooperation to the Committee in its staff work: in performing the research and the gathering of information which will be so necessary in order that this Commission do the job that it must do.
I think it wwld be well for this staff to study the laws of other states, to avoid any pitfalls that we might encounter.
I think later, in certain specialized fields, that we might need to name an advisory panel Who are experts. I thinlt it might be well for the various department heads to give this Commission their own appraisal of what could be done Within their own departments to economize and to reorganize their departments.
I think probably it would be well for this Commission to have as one of its Objectives the study of Federal, state and local relations, and that primarily ''1Ould be as to Federal funds. We ought to study the possibility of increasing Feder-a1 matching funds, that the increasing of Federal matching funds could possibly bankrupt the state and local government" l'le ought to determine whether we ought to leave this field alone, or simply to assay the needs for funds to match Feder~l funds that are available.

8
I think it is the objective, or should be the obj~ctive of this Commission to loolc far ahead 011 the minimum budget needs for the next six or eight years, at least.. In the past 1t has been more or less on a hodge-podge basis, looking from month to month, rather than from year to year.. I think \~ ought to know where we are r Where we are 901nq ..
I think 11:0 essential that this Commission confine itself to po11~1' ana not bog down in unassential details.. I ~ink it should shape the overall policies that are sound, for the benefit of ~e Stat.e, for many years to come ..
Now there are certain immediate economies that we can lnst.!tute.. I have already, as you know, had--ordered a l00,{, budget reduction in the various departments of the state Government. I llave cal13d on the departments of Government to submit to me by April 15th their proposed budqets for next year. I think a very careful study should be made as to wllether there should be additional, selective cuts in all of the 8qencies in the coming fiscal year ..
I am certain that only a very rigid economy policy, reduction in non-essential activity, will see the state through and provide the funds that are necessary to finance essential services.
I think it would be well for this Commission to study the possibility of setting up within the Executive Department a division of governmental operations in the Governors Office

9
to perform budget screenini3 very carefuLly. \'ie should have; a pre-audit function. At the present time the fWlction is this, of the State Auditor: Are the funds available? Are t.he departments staying within those funds? Are they being spent legally? I think. this Commission should look to the future to determine When a budget request comes in whether it's an essential request. What I am speaking of is if we set up
within the Governor's Office a division of governmental operations, there should be a pre-audit to determine if the money is being spent on essentials on sane project by a department head.
It's a question of whether that should be created now, or whether we should wait and study it more carefully. I think that's a very important question that should be st.udied not'l.
I think that 1f this commission will ask itself questions of policy, say a hundred questions, that 1f we can cane forward with a solution and ans\'ler to those questions, that we can evolve an excellent report.
I think our objective should be that we should farm out these questions, so that you might have in your mind that point., to staff personnel for research. They mig-ht study what other states have done. They ln1qht study what we are doing presently and how that might be improved.
You have before you Dr. Collins r memorandum. You. have before you Dr. l>1anners I memorandum. I think it would be '-'Jell

10 fo:t yeu to have befo..1:e you t...he repoj':t of the Senat.e C(.,.~"yjJn:i.tt.ee on Government Operations which made a very careful study. HOW'ever, it was hampered In its St.udl'.. ~'Ii'e will have t}l..at. passed out. I think it would be well for the members, especj.al-
ly, to have it. As I have stat.ed earlier, t.he Univ<lrs1t.y of Georgia and
parts of the Universit.y System of Georgi,'3. have been extremely cooperative. They have offered help to 'Clu.s Com:m1ss1on.. They realize it.s importance. They feel 'that the University System can contribute much t.o the work of this Cannl1.ssion.
I think some of you certainly are famili&\:" with the ex-
cellent work that Dr. rol. W. H. Collins, Jr. has ~Jone. I kno~J
Frank and George and Garland and carl have known L'r. Collins over a per100 of years. lie 18 a man who has his fe~\;t on the ground: a man whose political philosophy is very much the same as every member of this Commission. He bas nw.de a st.udy of state governments. I think possibly he could prov1d~ invaluable service to this Commission, and I would recommend ~o this Camatssion that we utilize his services, ana will entertain a motion to that effect, or 1f there is discussion--'
l~. SANDERS: I feel happy to move that this Commission
appoint or employ Dr. Collins as the ful.l-time Director, for
t.he reason, 1f I may add, that as you have already stated, he 1s a you..!lg n-an of, you might say, dedicated ability i.n O\.'!r State. He has done a magnificent job with the Institute of

J.1 r,a,,'! and Go~ve!.nment, and I thi.nk that he would be invaluable t()
this Commission as the Director, or someone to help us formulate and correlate our duties here, and get the show running, as we know it has to 9'et running'. within a. short period of time. I move that. we employ 111m as Director.
SPEARER SMITH. Along with your resolution, would you see
fit to change your motion to the effect that we authorize the Governor, as Chairman of the CI>mmission, t.o do it? I would like to second it.
MR. SANDERS: I would be happy to accept that amendment .. GOVERNOR VANDIVER: As YClU ](nQ\oI, he is already an employee of the State. 'lhis, of course, would require a mammoth effort on his part. There mlqht be a necessity for additional
comgensation. MR. TWITTY: I woul.d like to amend the motion that the
Chairman be authorized to f:.x his compensation--additional compensation--if you will a~cept that amendment.
SPEAKER SMITH I 'While you are moving that, he is going to have an assistant., or assistaats, why don't. you just. fix it so
the Chairman can go ahead and get the assistants?
GOVERNOR VANDIVER: I dor.t know Dr. Manners. H~lever, the men who have known him tel.\ me he is extremely capable I an excellent man, and I do kno~ he prepared an excellent repor.t. '!'bere should be at least: two associate dJ.rectors
.f.1Ro SANDERS: As I unders'~and it, Mr. Twitty has just

12 amended -the mo';'!-on to perm!t you, as the Chail."mall of the C01'l1mission, not only to appoint Dr .. Collins as Director, but to
also appoint two Associate Du:ectors, and fix their compensation.
SPEAJCER SMITlh Yes. MR. TWITTY' : Yes.
MR. SANDERS: I accept the amendment. GOVERNOR VANDIVER. Is there any discussion? MR. MONTAGUE: I would like to support that amendment. GOVERNOR VANDIVER: The question is on the amendment to the motion. Those who favor the adoption of the amendment will rise and stand Wlttl counted. (Hands raised.) I think it is unanimous. 111e question is now on the motion as amended. Those who favor the motion of Senator Sanders as amended will rise and stand until counted. (Hands raised.) Opposed, by the same sign. I declare the motion carried unan~ously. I did omii: that. it was my idea that 1. thought it would be well for an attorney to be employed. There is no attorney within this group. SPE21..RER SMITH: Governor, I think that' s an excellent idea. GOVERNOR VANDIVER: Because there will be statutes that will have to be drawn up. SPF..AI<ER SMITH': I would like to nominat.e Lamar Sizemore

1:3 fo:~ it. He is very capable.. J:~);1d if we could get. him, ! would like to nominate him.
MR.. JAY SMITH: I would like to second it, because I MO'" him.
GOVERlqOR VANDIVER: Further nomJ.nations? MR. SANDERS: That's perfectly agreeable, subject, if =or some reason be may say he couldn't do it, I would like to amend your motion to the effect that if Lamar cannot do it, the Chairman of the Comt'P.ission then will be authorized to select someone \\ilo \'lould be willing to accept this. Lamar is a right active, busy lawyer. I don't knm-l 1 he could do it. I think we ouqht to broaden the motion where if he turned it down, the Chairman would have the authority to go ahead and select somebody else. SPEAI<ER SMITH: Very good. MR. S1\NDERS: I would like to amend the motion to that effect, please. MR.. TWIrrvY: Why don' t you just let the motion be general and authorize the Governor to employ one? It looks like to me
that's the simple way to do it. GOVERNOR VANDIVER: "lould you like to withdra,,, your mo-
tion?
SPFAKBR SMITH: Yes.
GOVERl~OR VANDIVER: In the event he is not able to. 'l'll1e question is on the motion of Mr. Smith, which would allow the

vJitht.he staff persomv:~l,vJith the Direci:.oi: and .Assoc:i.nt,e;
til counted. (Hands raised .. ) Opposed, by the same sign... I declare the motion carried.
The next:. order of business t I think, wonld be to nam~~ tir,C' cormnittees 'i."iithin the Ccm"mission, and we have prepared a nU.1T'~' bel:' of co~r.i'l.11t.tees" The first. committe(~ is on financial adrl"!in.'" istrat.ion. I 't-Jould like for 'fi'i,r. George smith to serve as Chairman. On tllat committee; Senator SClnders; Mr. Jay Sm:lth of coweta; SerIilt.or John Greer; Mr. John Duncan, Jr.
On Persolmel Administration, Senator Sanders as Cha,:f..rma:L1' l4r. T\oJi.tty; Mr. Claxton and MIs .. Darling.
On Structu:r.al Reorganization, Mr" '.l:W1tty, ChaJ.r.man; Lietltenant.-Go-vernor Byrd; tI'.lX'. Underwooci;' r~.. Smith of BarrO\iv', Mayor 13 .. F .. r-lerrltt, Jr.
On the Edu.cation Conunit:.te, Mrs. Dm:~il19', Chairrllan: ?'lre I:hL'1Can ~ Hr. r4or.tag'l'l~e: lv!,":. Sm!t.h of Enk"llluel; Mr. Roy Sewell.,
Health and Welfa:re, Hr. Underwood, Chairman: r-1r .. Keyt;on;
F...ig'bviays, f-tt .. Keyton, C&~irman; .Mr. B. F. l'4errit.t, Jr~;
and fiJI. Charles Go\'mn.
Conservation of Na~ural Resot~ces and Agriculture, ~~~ ~1(:Jhn DUl1can, Jr '" # C!'&air.man: Mr.. Montague; f>tr... 8m!t.h of
Errra11uel.

15 I ndependent- Boards, Aut11oritlH3, etc.( loir. charl.es (io";.ian,
Cha.irman: Mr. Roy Sewel11 Mr. Jake Claxton. Now if it becomes necessary that other committees be set
up, they will be nmned from time to time. MR. SANDERS: Governor, just to keep the record straight,
and in keeping with what you just suggested, I move that we declare the office of Vice-chairman of this Commission vacant, and that the Lieutenant-Governor be named to preside in the absence of the Chairman, and in his absence and in the absence of the Chairman, that the Speaker be the gresiding officer.
I-tR. TWITTY: Second it. GOVERNOR VANDIVER: Any discussion of the motion? (NO response.) Those Who favor the motion will rise and stand until counted. (Hands raised.) Opposed, sw~e sign. I declare the motion carried unan~ously. Is there any further business to come before the C~~n1ssion today? I think we ought to determine when the Commission should meet again. I would hope tilat we could meet again next week. I would hope by that time that we would have our Staff Director and his staff employed. I would hope that during the interJ.m members of this Commission will be thinking about this problem of reorganization and economizing, and each individual would prepare a list of questions Which he feels are of vital importance for the consideration of this Commission~

16 '1:'llat these q"".e:~H:ions be turned over t.o t.'ll>? St:af:l: DirGctor and his staff for their consideration and their study. I would suggest a minimum of 25 questions from each individual; that's questions or suggestions. (Discussion on next date to meet.) MR. TWITTY: I would like to move we meet next Thursdny. GOVERNOR VANDIVER: You make a mot.ion we meet next Thu.rs~ day, the 9th -- at 2:00 p.m.? MR. TWITTY: I move that we meet next Thursday at. 2 :00 o'clock.
MR. HARRY SMITHs Second that motion. GOVERNOR VANDIVER: Any discussion? (No response.) Those in favor of the motion will rise and stand until counted. (Hands raised.) Opposed, same sign. I declare the motion carried. MR. SANDERS: Governor, I was wondering if we could set a specific dayI either every two weeks or every week, or 'dhen we have to meet, and then we could all sort of get our calendars cleared away accordingly; we might have a good, clear view of it. GOVERNOR VANDIVER: I think that's an excellent sU9gest,j.on.
I f you would like to think about it bet\-leen now and when we next meet.
MR. GOWAN: Actually, you will have sub-committees \t/orking, which will be smaller groups getting together.

11 ~lR. ~n'lI'rTY:. I imagine you \'lill want the full Co.'ll.'miss.ion
to meet periodically. GOVERNOR VM'TJ)IVER: I think we ought to meet at least
once a week. Be thinking about these things between now and next Thurs-
day--all of you--and check your calendars and let's try to arrive a mutually convenient date.
I knm-} Mr. Harry smith advised me he could not serve in the first part of the week because he is getting his newspaper out.. Under the Resolut.ion we will have to have a quorum with a minimum of eight.
!-tR. GOWAN: Governor, I suggest we ask the stat.e Auditor n~il to each of the members of the Commission who are not members of the General Assembly copies of the Auditor's Report, so that they will have the information that we all have, \'!lth reference to expenditures now being made.
GOVERNOR VANDIVER: Yes. Without objection, will the Secretary get in touch with the State Auditor and advise him so to do?
Any further suggestions, or is there any other business to come before this Cormnission today? (No response.) If not, the Chair will entertain a motion to adjourn until Thursday, April 9th.
LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR BYRD: So move.
GOVERNOR VANDIVER: Those in favor of the motion will rise

18 and stand until counted. (Hands raised.) opposed, same signe I declare the Ccm~iss1on adjourned.
(Thereupon, at 3:00 p.m., the meeting was adjourned, to reconvene Thursd~y, April 9, 1959, at 2:00 o'clock, p.m.)